Browse content similar to 30/06/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The first major strike in Britain under the coalition, who will blink | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
first? The stakes could hardly be higher for the Government, the | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
unions and for Labour. As all sides dispute the impact of the walkout, | :00:17. | :00:24. | |
is this the beginning of a new era of industrial action? These days | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
protestors seem to have croissants for breakfast, but the anger of | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
what the Government is doing seems as strong as ever. Unions are | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
taking action. It isn't just as probably many of them think, us and | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
our own self-interests at all, it is about the defence of the | :00:39. | :00:45. | |
education system as a whole, that is what we are about. We argue it | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
out in the studio with major protaganist. They know they are | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
paid and have pensions and they are lucky to have a job at this time. | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
We have been in one community affected, here we will speak to the | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
headteacher who worked, and his teacher who didn't. Plus lessons | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
from history. Our group of political insiders game play the | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
future. Also tonight, could the opposition | :01:12. | :01:18. | |
be gaining the upper hand in Syria. Another exclusive undercover report | :01:18. | :01:27. | |
Good evening, today's strike action by a variety of public sector | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
unions, in England and Wales, and including the PCS in Scotland, over | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
pensions reform, involved a series of personal and political judgments | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
by union members, particularly teachers. It also tested the metal | :01:40. | :01:47. | |
of David Cameron and Ed Miliband. The Labour leader exoration to | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
teachers not to take action has brought the wrath of union leaders | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
on his head, while the Prime Minister has to decide whether to | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
stand his ground or make concessions. As for the strikers, | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
it is not clear where the public sympathy lies, the argument about | :02:03. | :02:12. | |
fairness are still being played out. Plenty has changed since the anti- | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
Government protests of the 1980s. At Lambeth Town Hall in south | :02:15. | :02:21. | |
London, the red flag no longer flies. These days protestors seemed | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
to have croissants for breakfast. But the anger at what the | :02:24. | :02:31. | |
Government is doing is just the same as it was in the 80s. Thus | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
fortified by French pastry and English rhetoric, this group of | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
protestors moves off to join the many others converging on | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
Westminster. Many of the marchers are teachers, judging by the number | :02:43. | :02:52. | |
of whistles, PE teachers. Can I walk with you a second. You two or | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
three don't look like dangerous radicals? No we are not. Are you | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
teachers? Yes we are. Why have you come out today? Everything else is | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
going up in price, we haven't had pay rise for two years, how are we | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
supposed to survive. Some people in the private sector say they have | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
the same problem with their passion and they don't have a pension | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
anything like as good? We pay for our pension, it is not like | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
somebody is giving it to us. But, goes the complaint of public sector | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
workers, they are being asked to pay more and take reduced pensions | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
even later. We are all independent school | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
teachers, we are not in the Vanguard of the country's | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
revolutionaries. You are not dressed as a revolutionary? I don't | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
feel like one. You are angry? are angry, we feel let down, | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
because, there has always been an understanding in teaching, that | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
teachers are not paid an enormous amount, but they have a reasonable | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
pension, it is a pension based on what you earn any way, it is never | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
going to be huge. Other marchers clearly haven't come straight from | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
the staff room. The police searched this group, perhaps they have had a | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
tip-off, perhaps it is just because one of them looks like Colonel | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
Gaddafi. Whatever the reason, they were all | :04:03. | :04:10. | |
let go. This is one of the features of modern protests, everyone has a | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
camera, we have got one, then they are filming the police, and over | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
there, the police are filming everyone else. | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
As much as it angers these people, the Government has said there is no | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
alternative but to cut pensions. On Tuesday the Prime Minister made the | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
case again, he said they were unaffordable. First, reform is | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
essential, because we just cannot go on as we are. That's not because | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
as some people say, public service pensions are ridiculously generous. | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
In fact, around half of public service pensioners receive less | :04:47. | :04:53. | |
than �6,000 a year. No, the reason we can't go on as we are, is | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
because as the babyboomers retire, and thankfully, live longer, the | :04:58. | :05:06. | |
pensions system is in danger of going broke. But is this true? Well | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
according to Lord Hutton's public review, the cost of public sector | :05:09. | :05:18. | |
pensions as a proportion of GDP is falling from 1.9% to 1.4% by 2060. | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
This fall is partly only achieved by adapting one of the measures | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
that these people are protesting about, but the other one, the | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
increase in contributions they are being asking to make will cause the | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
graph to fall even more. Why is the Government reforming pensions? One | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
reason is fairness. Another is suggested by the terms of reference | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
that the Government gave the independent pensions commission. It | :05:43. | :05:53. | |
:05:53. | :05:57. | ||
In other words, it sees the relative generosity of public | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
sector pensions as a problem in encouraging private sector | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
providers in health and education. Meanwhile, for the Labour leader, | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
Ed Miliband, there is a big problem. He can't openly disown the unions, | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
nor can he fully support the strikes. Instead, he attacks the | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
Government. These strikes are wrong, at a time when negotiations are | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
still going on. But parents and the public have been let down by both | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
sides because the Government has acted in a reckless and provocative | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
manner. He was obviously very pleased with that line, either that | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
or he didn't want to risk saying anything else. The Government has | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
acted in a reckless and provocative manner. The Government has acted in | :06:38. | :06:44. | |
a reckless and provocative manner. Parents and governors have been let | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
down by both sides because the Government has acted in a reckless | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
and provocative manner! Other public sector unions were on strike | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
today, it is the teachers' action that the Government knows will have | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
the most impact on family life. Ministers were desperate to keep | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
schools open. The question is, of course, how many teachers have gone | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
to work as normal today. As of lunchtime the Department for | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
Education has given us these statistics, about quarter of | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
schools, they say, are closed. Another quarter partially open,- | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
and-a-quarter open. The remainder, they don't know about yet. We have | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
to remember, of course, that one of the really big teachers' unions | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
isn't taking industrial action today. | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
The Education Secretary, Michael Gove, was in one open school, if | :07:31. | :07:39. | |
the kids there had missed out on day off, at least they could share | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
an anecdote about his breakfast. had Cherrios for breakfast with my | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
children, normally I have toast, but I needed extra energy today, so | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
I had two bowls. Two bowls but one message? I feel disappointed people | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
have decided to go out on strike today. I understand there are | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
strong feelings about pensions, we want to ensure that everyone in the | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
public sector, especially teachers, have decent pension, but I don't | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
think it is a good idea to have gone out on strike today. With an | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
aftermarch pint and a quick scrub for the streets, London gets back | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
to normal. The question of public sector pensions is still far from | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
tidy. I'm joined by the Treasury minister, | :08:21. | :08:27. | |
Justine Greening, Labour would not put up a single frontbencher or | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
backbencher, make what that - of that what you will. We are | :08:32. | :08:41. | |
delighted to have Kitty Usher, from formally from the think-tank dem | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
moss. David Cameron says pension teams | :08:44. | :08:51. | |
are in danger of going bust, there is no evidence for that? Lord | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
Hutton did report over this year and last year. His analysis is the | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
current system is untenable. The reason he said that was when he | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
looked at how public sector pensions were going to be | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
affordable and sustainable over the next 50 years, he said there was a | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
real risk they wouldn't be. That is why we needed to reform them. That | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
is why we are talking with the unions about doing that now. David | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
Cameron, let's be clear, was wrong to say the pension schemes are in | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
danger of going broke. Nobody said that. I read the Hutton Report, | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
nothing there suggests that? look at what has happened with | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
public sector pensions in terms of what they cost the taxpayer in the | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
last decade, they have risen by a third. It is percentage terms in | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
terms of GDP, they would be falling from 1.9 to 1.4, in real terms, | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
pensions in the future will cost less? As your earlier package | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
pointed out, one of the reasons that is happening is the current | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
reforms that we are talking about unions about how to implement now. | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
These are very, difficult issues we have to sort out. For many people | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
watching this in the private sector and had to go through it with their | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
own companies, they know it is difficult too. We need to find a | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
route that is fair by public sector workers, in making sure they have | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
extremely good pension, but it is also fair by the taxpayer who is | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
paying it. We will come on to the private-public sector split in a | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
moment. Let's unpick what you said there. In terms of reform, what you | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
are saying is what the Hutton Report recommended was based on, | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
for example, CPI, but actually pensions would rise in line with | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
the consumer price index, rather than the retail price index. He | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
went on to say that, given that, these pensions, as they stand, | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
would be affordable. Nowhere in the Hutton Report, at all, does he talk | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
about the need for increased contributions to make it affordable. | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
If the CPI is carried out, as a measure, that will be enough, | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
nowhere at all does he talk about having to increase pension | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
contributions, in order to reach the scheme that you want to reach? | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
That is not actually correct, cirsity. In fact f you look at - | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
Kirsty, in fact, if you look at what analysis went into the graph | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
you showed earlier. No big increase in public sector contributions? | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
you let me finish. It did have two element, one was the CPI and RPI | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
shift, the other was also another piece that was going to be | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
delivered by public sector pension reform. In fact, it was something | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
the previous Government had also started looking at, prior to | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
leaving office. That was all about trying to tackle this issue that | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
the taxpayer couldn't be simply expected to keep on funding extra | :11:39. | :11:46. | |
and extra requirements as people live longer. His graphs do not show | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
that any big increase in public sector contributions to pensions | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
are necessary, to reach affordability in the new scheme. | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
The CPI, yes. And some increase, but not the big increases you are | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
asking for at the moment? I think families who are paying an awful | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
lot more to fund public sector pensions already will say actually | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
there is issue...This Is really important? If I can finish | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
answering one of your questions. You have answered that point, but | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
what you are really talking about, isn't t you are dressing it up by | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
saying that actually the Hutton independent commission really did | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
want large increases, though it didn't say so. What you are | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
actually talking about is not affordability, what you are talking | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
about, and reasonably, is fairness? We're talking about a number of | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
things. We are talking about making sure public sector pensions in the | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
long-term are sustainable. That means, having public sector | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
pensions that are fair by public sector workers, and will still be | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
incredible strong pensions for them. But are also fair by tax-payers. | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
There will be many people in their 30-somethings, watching this, this | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
evening, who are problems even paying for their own pension, let | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
alone anybody elses. What we have been doing with the unions is | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
sitting down and talking to them about how we can strike the right | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
balance by public sector workers and the rest of the tax-payers. The | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
other point that Lord Hutton made, of course, he looked at that graph, | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
what he said, first of all he said let's bear in mind we are | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
projecting out 50 years here, there is some unreliability around the | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
figures. Also, is it right to make a 50-year bet on whether these | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
pension schemes are going to be sustainable. That is what he said, | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
I think he's right. That is why we are better off, not putting our | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
heads in the sand and pretending it will be fine. It is better to be | :13:34. | :13:36. | |
responsible as a Government and working with the unions to find a | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
real solution to this now. You may say that you have to have these | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
large increase, but actually, nowhere, in Hutton, in the | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
independent commission, did it say we needed large increases. Is it | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
not the case in the terms of reference of the whole commission | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
is the truth of it. Ideolgically, perfectly reason for the | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
Conservatives to say that what he they want is to reduce the barrier | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
for public sector work, going into private sector provision, because | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
if pensions rise the increase will not be afforded if these jobs went | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
to the private sector providers. That is what it is about? I don't | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
think you are right. If that was the case...Why Not, it says clearly | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
that is one of the aims that you had for the commission, perfectly | :14:24. | :14:30. | |
reasonably? And one of the reasons that was one of our parts of what | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
we wanted Lord Hutton to look at, because that was common sense. The | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
point was about to make before you went into your next question was | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
this cross-party consensus, really, that we need public sector reform | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
and the question is making sure we can do it in fair way for everybody. | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
That is what we want to sit down with the unions and sort out. What | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
I would say is let's distinguish between that genuine problem, and | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
then the second issue, which is whether the strikes we have had | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
today will help us sort that out, and the answer is they are not. | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
Let's raise that last point by Justine Greening, what you have | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
done today helps not one jot? have been driven to what we have | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
done today. We have never taken strike action for 127 years. I just | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
have to comment on three things that Justine has said. What she has | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
really laid bare and you have laid bare in the questioning is the | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
complete dogs dinner of the Government's approach to this | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
problem. We have David Cameron saying, and he did say, public | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
service pensions are in danger of going broke, it is clear they are | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
not. Then we had Michael Gove in the House on the same day saying, | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
we need to reform public sector pensions because of the deficit, | :15:34. | :15:41. | |
and the mess that Labour left the country in. Then we have the other | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
ministers saying it has to be about longevity. They haven't got their | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
ducks in a row about this. Let's be clear what Justine Greening is also | :15:49. | :15:56. | |
saying, is you could have a private sector job, and a public sector job | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
of roughly comparable salaries. Let's have an example, your driving | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
instructor is a private sector, he has his own company, he earns a | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
salary, your public sector workers earns the same, why should the | :16:11. | :16:18. | |
examiner have 14% greater pension pot than - why should the examiner | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
have the 14% greater pension pot than the private workers. Public | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
sector work remembers paying contributions to their pensions. | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
pays through his taxation? Public sector workers also pay taxes and | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
contributions. We pay our taxes and contributions. Just let's deal with | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
the issue of longevity, I have heard so much nonsense about this | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
for so long. If teachers live longer then we have agreed, in the | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
changes we made in 2007, that if there is extra contributions to be | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
made for us living longer, we will pay them out of our wages. Kitty | :16:53. | :17:02. | |
Usher, I'm not expecting you to be an apologyist for the Labour party | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
who haven't got their ducks in a row either. What is the dilemma, | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
unions striking today weren't affiliated, which is why Ed | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
Miliband felt safer in making the criticism about it. What is Labour | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
to do? I think the issue here is trade unions are fantastic, they | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
have a really strong role to play in 21st century Britain, and | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
everyone should join a trade union. There is nothing about being a | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
trade unionist that means you necessarily have to be part of the | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
Labour movement. Although I welcome the fact that they are part of the | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
family. Was Ed Miliband right to criticise them for coming out on | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
strike today? In the place he was in he had a choice of either | :17:41. | :17:47. | |
looking like Red Ed, or being slightly more pragmatic. | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
I think he did exactly the right thing. Do you think he was between | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
a rock and hard place. The problem the Labour opposition don't oppose, | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
they are mourning from being in Government. You say his remarks | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
were disgraceful? To say nothing about public sector pensions and | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
the negotiations up until about three days ago, and then to say the | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
strike is a mistake. Then to invite a Labour leader of the opposition | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
to advise people to go across picket lines, that is a disgrace. | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
Trade unionism shouldn't just be about the labour Government, at | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
Demos we are doing a Conservative project, looking at the role trade | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
unions can play in supporting the Big Society, we need to understand | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
they have a wider role, it doesn't need to be party political. The | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
reason why Ed was right is that the real negotiating power that the | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
unions have is over the timing of all of this. It is quite possible | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
to have a long-term settlement about reforminging public sector | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
pensions, that remove the break with final salary schemes, which is | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
a good idea, having an average salary scheme, which supports lower | :18:52. | :18:58. | |
paid people, and making sure we are able to get a better return for the | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
taxpayer. It is an unfunded scheme, future generations pay. The problem | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
is the Government is trying to score it in the next couple of | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
years on the fiscal books to meet the cuts agenda. That is what you | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
should be negotiated. That message hasn't come through with the strike. | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
Part of the reason Ed Miliband said he wasn't supporting action is | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
because negotiations are continuing. Here you both are, I'm not | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
expecting a resolution on Newsnight, are you prepared to move on the | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
level of increase and indeed the principle of increase? We have been | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
in discussions with the unions for some time now, I think it is worth | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
pointing out that although some unions were on strike today, there | :19:37. | :19:45. | |
were an awful lot, including major ones like GMB, in fact, under half | :19:45. | :19:52. | |
of the PCS unions were on strike too. We are prepared to continue | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
having constructive talks with the unions, difficult issues, but we | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
are convinced we can sit down and work together. I would say, at the | :20:00. | :20:06. | |
end of the day, the strikes don't change what we have to do, what | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
they Diamonds Will Do is make it harder for parents - do do is make | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
it harder for parents to go out to work when they are looking after | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
their children. We need to focus our energy and efforts on trying to | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
find a solution to a difficult problem. I'm happy to negotiate, | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
let me negotiate on these things, let me negotiate about the pension | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
contribution increase, let me negotiate about the rise in the | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
retirement age, let me negotiate about the move from final salary to | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
career average, first of all, give me information. Give me the | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
information, and give us the time to negotiate properly, don't say on | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
all the key issues we are not going to negotiate. | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
The Department of Education said that the strike action affected | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
11,000 of the schools in England and Wales, of that number nearly | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
6,000 shut entirely. And in a knock-on effect as parents | :20:58. | :21:04. | |
scrambled to find childcare or had to take a day off work. There was | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
schools where some teachers worked and some didn't. We went to | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
Dartford to see how one school was affected. In a moment we will speak | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
to a headteacher who worked and his too mucher who went on strike. | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
- teacher who went on strike. While thousands of children are off | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
school, these ones are having toast and jam at the school breakfast | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
club, just like they always. Do only one teacher is striking here | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
at OKfield Primary School, which is great news for these kids, they | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
claimed they didn't want to have a day off any way. The teachers | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
decided to come in and get us education. What do you think? | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
Brilliant, excellent. My nan is always frustrated about it on the | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
news, shouting on the telly about the cuts, she says it is bad for | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
children, it should be kept open because of their education. They | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
need it when they are older. This is not one of Kent's very best | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
performing schools, they have had their fair share of problems in the | :22:02. | :22:09. | |
past. They say they are improving year-on-year, the headteacher says | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
to strike here at OKfield would fly in the face of everything they have | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
achieved. Garry Ratcliffe is trying hard to turn around his school's | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
fortunes, attendance is a huge issue here. This week alone he | :22:24. | :22:30. | |
issued fines to six parents who kept their children out of school. | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
To close the school for Daewoo send the wrong message to parents and | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
children. At the same time I have to be clear that I would support | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
any member of staff, any teacher in the unions that are striking. | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
It is a very young work force here, which could explain the general | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
apathy towards industrial action. This is a generation that hasn't | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
grown up with a powerful trade union movement, and a generation | :22:53. | :22:59. | |
that can ill afford to lose a day's wages. I look at the students, | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
everything that happened there, that was chaos, have they changed | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
the decision, no they haven't. We could go in our masses, and we | :23:06. | :23:14. | |
could strike, and scream and shout, but, you know, it doesn't matter | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
what we are going to do, they will make the decisions. What will make | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
the Government listen? If every teacher would go on strike, perhaps | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
they would start to listen, who knows. What made one teacher break | :23:26. | :23:34. | |
rank and go on strike the? It goes towards proect iting the | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
integrity of the teaching profession. We want to traict the | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
best people to teaching. We want to - attract the best people to | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
teaching and keep experienced teachers in the profession. I know | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
it is hard for parents and I do feel sympathy for them, I hope they | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
understand. He might be a lone voice at the school. But across the | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
rest of Kent 200 schools were caught up in the strikes. This is | :23:58. | :24:04. | |
Chatham, the teachers here aren't quite as resigned to the status quo | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
as in Dartford, they are undeterred by colleagues who aren't on strike, | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
they say it is just the beginning. The lesson I'm giving my students | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
today is the best I could give this year, I don't have to be there. | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
About 100 people came to the Hustings, this man says it is a | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
good turnout. What about the thousand who is chose to stay in | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
the classroom. We have a lot of young teachers in the profession | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
these days, for them this is something entirely new, they are | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
not familiar with this kind of thing. They are not familiar with | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
the arguments we are making, they are very dedkaited, often their | :24:36. | :24:44. | |
heads are down, - dedicated, they have heads down and into their work. | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
Hopefully we can convince them of the merits of the case and we will | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
see more people supporting the strike next time. They haven't | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
convinced all the parents. I have two children at school, one at | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
secondary and one at junior, both schools have closed, I have had to | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
take the day off. It is annoying, I won't get paid. It is wrong, they | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
know their pay and pensions and really they are lucky to have work | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
at the moment. Although it has inconvienced me for the day, I | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
fully accept it, I fully agree with what they are doing. There is | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
definitely sympathy out there for the teachers, but this is, afterall, | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
a one-day strike, if there are many more like it, the question remains, | :25:23. | :25:29. | |
how long will the sympathy last. Joining me now are two of the | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
teachers from OKfield Primary School, the headteacher, Garry | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
Ratcliffe, who didn't strike, and the year three teacher, Richard | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
Moore, who did. Garry Ratcliffe, was there any doubt in your mind as | :25:41. | :25:47. | |
to whether you should strike? doubt. I'm a member of the NAHT, | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
that wasn't striking today any way. When I joined the profession and | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
when I became a head, I made assurances to my governors and my | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
parent body, and my colleagues, my teachers that the children would | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
always come first. There are plenty of reasons for being in a union, so | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
right at the very beginning, when you joined the union, it was on the | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
basis that you would never take strike action? Absolutely, for me I | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
really feel passionate that we should keep the school open for the | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
children and our community. Doesn't that let down some of your | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
colleagues, who are perhaps not in the position of headteacher, whose | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
salaries are much lower than your's, and who face, as it stands, the | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
possibility that they will be paying much higher pension | :26:33. | :26:39. | |
contributions and having a stand still pay? I do sympathise with all | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
teachers, as I discussed with my colleagues today, I'm paying a | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
pension as well, my contributions would be going up as well. I would | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
support any teacher in my school going out on strike. In the end you | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
were the only teacher in the school that went out on strike, what was | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
the conversation with your colleagues like? I spoke to a lot | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
of colleagues about going on strike and gave my reasons for them. We | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
have a friendly staff in the school, and there was no animosity or any | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
debate about whether we should go on strike. I firmly believe the | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
people who work at the school are educated people themselves, they | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
have read all about it, they know the issues, it was their choice to | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
go on strike or not. It was my choice to go on strike. What was | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
the tipping point for you? tipping point was generally the | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
Government's intransigence, they didn't seem to want to negotiate on | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
any of the key issues, I feel a little bit let down by a Government, | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
an elected Government that doesn't seem to want to negotiate. I | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
believe they have made the decisions as to what's going to | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
happen with the teachers' pensions, there is no negotiation with it. | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
From what I have been reading and have heard, the only discussion is | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
how it will be implemented, I don't think that is fair. You are coming | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
towards the end of term, it is possible strike action if there | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
isn't a resolution might continue in autumn, would you come out | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
again? That depends heavily on the Government's position. I think | :27:55. | :28:01. | |
between now and then, I do think there are issues with the pension | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
scheme that need to be resolved, I think the Government need to talk | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
to the teaching body about those things. If there was action in the | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
autumn and the Government positions hadn't changed and they were still | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
in this position of not changing, I would vote for a strike, yes. Again, | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
it is a very, very difficult decision to go on strike. You are | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
now in a school which has been turned round, I think, by your own | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
endeavours and the endeavours of your teachers, you are presumably | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
held in higher regard by the parents, do you think more broadly | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
there will be an issue if striking teachers are seen out on the | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
streets? Our parents are very supportive of the whole teaching | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
body, and I think they would listen to the teachers, I think they would | :28:45. | :28:51. | |
sympathise, I think even within our own parent body there is a wide | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
variety of opinion already, some fully supportive of teachers going | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
on strike, and some saying thank you for keeping the school open. | :28:59. | :29:04. | |
More broadly, the profession itself, if it was prolonged action, might | :29:04. | :29:10. | |
be called into disrepute? No. is interesting, if it don't be and | :29:10. | :29:18. | |
if you see as intransigence in the Government, as you would see it, | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
coming towards the autumn and teachers becoming more | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
disillusioned, would you see it as something you would support? | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
support it already. But not take part in it? I won't take part in it. | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
Is there a danger you are undermining your position? I'm not | :29:31. | :29:37. | |
undermining their position, I will support Richard and any other | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
teacher that decides to strike, we have a fantastic teaching staff | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
working together for the good of the community, if three, five, ten | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
of them want to strike. I will examine the position of the school | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
each time there is industrial action. | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
We discussed the political implications of the strike in a few | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
minutes with our political panel. First, in Syria, opposition leaders | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
have set up a National Coordination Committee, uniting figures inside | :30:06. | :30:13. | |
the country and those outside. The unrest is entering the next four | :30:13. | :30:19. | |
months, the opposition looks like it is being successful in | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
controlling four cities. Sue Lloyd Roberts, has been undercover, and | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
explains how co-operation between activists inside and outside the | :30:27. | :30:33. | |
country have helped keep the revolution alive. This report | :30:33. | :30:39. | |
contains graphic images. Pictures show clashes between | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
protestors and security forces and there have been more deaths. This | :30:43. | :30:49. | |
is going on in Syria for weeks now. We received these pictures on | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
YouTube within hours of it taking place. It is a sign the opposition | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
is getting better organised, and the skill of those who are | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
literally advertising this uprising. TRANSLATION: Demonstrations started | :31:01. | :31:08. | |
when people saw what happened in Deraa and ban yos. People saw the | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
videos that were uploaded, this is just a small part. Perhaps 5% of | :31:14. | :31:20. | |
what is really happening in Syria. What's happening in Syria is much | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
more terrifying. The first time they responded by firing at us. The | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
security forces provoked the protestors, they took up firing | :31:30. | :31:36. | |
positions, they pointed their guns at the protestors. Some of the | :31:36. | :31:43. | |
young men bared their chests and said if you are a man, fire. | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
They faced them with their chests bared, they are not worth more than | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
the people of Tehran. We shall die as they died. We are seekers of | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
freedom. The protest and the coverage | :31:57. | :32:03. | |
require co-ordination. In the capital, Damascus, must taf FA | :32:03. | :32:11. | |
shows how they - Mustafa shows how they share it between the | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
protestors. They are the co- ordinators and advocates who | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
promote what they are doing on the ground. Sometimes I go and monitor | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
the protests, for example, driving my car to go there, and I just | :32:21. | :32:29. | |
watch myself what is going on there. Then I report this to some of the | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
news agencies or channels, I would publish everything I see, | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
everything I get on a page I'm running on Facebook, it is called | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
"monitoring protests in Syria". Many of the early activists were | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
known to the authorities. They had to flee to neighbouring Lebanon, to | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
join a growing number of Syrian exiles who work as advocates abroad. | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
Like these two, who now upload the material as it arrives from Syria, | :32:58. | :33:08. | |
:33:08. | :33:34. | ||
check it, and vitally, distribute He then contacts journalists and | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
human rights organisations with the latest news on fatalities, and who | :33:39. | :33:49. | |
:33:49. | :34:28. | ||
From shaky beginnings, the pictures and the coverage have become faster, | :34:28. | :34:37. | |
and more daring. Spreading the information, and the uprising. In | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
the beginning, in Deraa, people were only asking for reform. The | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
brutal response to modest demands, and the images, widely distributed, | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
has seen the uprising spread throughout the country, with the | :34:49. | :34:55. | |
call for the end of the regime. Media watchers of an older | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
generation in Syria called it nothing less than a political and | :34:59. | :35:06. | |
reporting revolution. TRANSLATION: Professional journalists who work | :35:06. | :35:12. | |
in the field here, suffer huge restrictions and an inability to | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
move and communicate freely. We believe these young people, who I | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
call citizen journalist, have changed that fact. They have set | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
information free, they have spread it and erased the silence imposed | :35:25. | :35:35. | |
:35:35. | :35:37. | ||
Recently there has been a discernable change in the pictures | :35:37. | :35:43. | |
coming out. It shows demonstrators gaining in confidence, an almost | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
carnival atmosphere. It is too early to conclude that the tide is | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
turning in favour of the protestors. But it does appear that Government | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
troops are overstretched. It could be that there are now so many | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
demonstrations, that they haven't got the means to respond to them | :36:00. | :36:06. | |
all with guns. Sue Lloyd Roberts. We return to | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
today's strike action, discussed with our regular panel of political | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
insiders how they think it will all play out. First, banner-waving | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
strikers, marching in the streets, chants, rallies, all of an echo of | :36:18. | :36:26. | |
a not so distant time, when struggle and strive were part - | :36:26. | :36:36. | |
:36:36. | :36:39. | ||
strike were part of a not too Back in 1974, strikes by dockers | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
and miners had an impact on the whole population. There were power | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
cuts and a three-day week. It also brought down the Conservative | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
Government. Perhaps it wasn't such a great idea for Edward Heath to go | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
to the country asking who governs Britain. The answer came back, not | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
you. Labour claimed to have a better | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
relationship with the unions, but attempts to strike a deal over pay | :37:01. | :37:07. | |
collapsed, leading to the "Winter of Discontent" in 1978. Waves of | :37:07. | :37:13. | |
strikes by lorry drivers, refuse collectors and grave diggers, left | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
rubbish on the streets and bodies unburied, and led to the defeat of | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
the Callaghan Government the next year. Don't run down your country | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
by talking about mounting chaos. Margaret Thatcher promised a fresh | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
start, and union reform. Where there is discord, may we bring | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
harmony. But five years later another strike | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
by miners pitched the Government into a year-long battle with the | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
union. This time Arthur Scargill was the loser. | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
Industrial action after Tony Blair came to power returned, but it | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
caused little disruption compared with the disputes of the 70s and | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
80s. Union membership has halved since 1979, it is doubtful the | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
disruption could ever rocket to 70s' levels again, but how high are | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
the stakes as Britain faces the prospect of large scale disruption | :38:08. | :38:14. | |
and unrest for the first time in years. I'm joined by Finkelstein, | :38:14. | :38:20. | |
from the Times, formerly an aide, and Deborah Mattinson from Britain | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
Thinks, almost a former pollster to Gordon Brown. | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
First of all, let's quickly deal with Ed Miliband's position today? | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
It's a nightmare for an opposition, an unpredictable issue. I really | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
feel for him. If he goes against it, and then the strikes turn out to be | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
a real success, he has obviously opposed his own members in their | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
successful action. If he goes with it and the Government don't go with | :38:45. | :38:52. | |
him, he will end up looking like someone who request run the country. | :38:52. | :38:58. | |
The one thing he can't do, and I'm afraid he has done, is not choose. | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
You can't say strikes are wrong because they are still negotiating, | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
you either think they are right because of the issue or they are | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
wrong. He has to choose. Even though I'm sympathetic to him | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
because it is difficult to choose and correctly, politically that is. | :39:11. | :39:17. | |
Do you agree? I certainly agree, if there is one job that is worse | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
being a leader of the opposition, is a Labour leader of the | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
opposition with an industrial dispute. Especially if you are one | :39:24. | :39:30. | |
criticised for being in the pockets of the union. None of these are | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
affiliated? Absolutely, I think he was very mindful of the Red Ed | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
tag's crafted his words. I agree with Danny, he ended up dancing on | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
the head of a pin. And not, actually, putting out a clear | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
position, not really saying where he stood. I think you have to be | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
very true at this point to what you fundamentally believe. My suspicion | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
is that he supports the strikes, but he feels that it's politically | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
untenable. Whether or not that is the case, that is what people will | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
think. That is what people will think. Therefore, it smax of a kind | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
of slight - smacks of a kind of slight lack of truthfulness. But he | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
is in an incredibly difficult position. For once what we are | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
having from the Labour Party is a sense that it is complex and there | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
is no simple answer. For the last seven months what we have heard | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
from the Labour Party is it is incredibly simple, don't do this, | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
don't do that. This, at least, is the Labour Party saying this issue | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
is complicated. The Labour Party might be saying this issue is | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
complicated, but nobody is actually prepared to come and say, this is a | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
complicated issue? Having said that, this is also an opportunity, he | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
could say I'm my own man, not guided by the trade union, I will | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
be clear, independent and decisive, and come out against the strikes, | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
and come out against the demand, which are, effectively, a sectional | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
demand against the community interest. There is a sense at the | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
moment he's sitting on the fence, he with do that or the other way. | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
What would Tony Blair have done? think Tony Blair would have handled | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
it very differently. I think Tony Blair probably would have been | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
critical of the unions, and possibly been able to do that with | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
more conviction. I think there is a slightly different point to make | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
here, actually. I think the missed opportunity, I don't know if it | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
will be missed forever, but at the moment, is the opportunity for Ed | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
Miliband to present Labour as the party that stands up for great | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
public services, and to frame what's happening now in this that | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
context, that is not happening. you have written today, that this | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
is actually a possible disaster, really, for the coalition? I just | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
objected to the idea, that because Margaret Thatcher defeated the | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
miners, that all Government also now defeat unions. Historically | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
that hasn't been the case. There is every reason to think that if the | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
teachers manage to go out over and over again, people will decide that | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
they can't put up with the nuisance and wonder why the Government | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
hasn't settled. Apart from my own view, I robustly think the | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
Government is correct on this. Looking at it politically it could | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
happen like that. It ends up being a battle for the survival between | :42:09. | :42:15. | |
the unions and the coalition. It is pretty apocalyptic? The unions will | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
behave in a national cirriculum will make people say why are they | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
behave - in a fashion that will make people say they are behaving | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
that way they must have a point. With trade unions, in terms of the | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
pensions issue, right now, people are broadly on the unions' side, | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
rather than the Government's side. The language that this has been | :42:36. | :42:41. | |
couched in today, and we should just talk about this for a minute. | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
This language, this reluctance of Justine Greening to say, yes it is | :42:44. | :42:50. | |
about fairness, we want to be able to put public sector work out to | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
multiple providers because the danger of the pension hikes, that | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
is perfectly reasonable position to take, they keep going on about | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
affordability, going broke? There is an issue of affordability, David | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
Cameron talked about the risk of going broke. That is exactly the | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
right word "the risk" is the critical thing, the Government will | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
pick up the downside risk. There are complicated argument about the | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
future of pensions you could get lost in. People do understand | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
public expenditure is too high, we have to get it down. This is part | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
of the reason why it is too high. This is the position of the Liberal | :43:23. | :43:29. | |
Democrats, which is last zooed to the Conservatives over this, - | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
lasooed to the Conservatives. there is a critical danger at the | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
moment, we have seen this with Ed Miliband's position, where there is | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
a chasam being created between the private and public sector, what was | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
amazing over the last two or three years, is everyone in the private | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
sector, especially in consultancy, pursued the public opinion, because | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
that is the way of making it through the recession. Now there | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
are chasams opening up, they are dangerous. In a funny sort of way | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
the coalition does well by voicing that chasam, but I think there are | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
long-term consequences to that. Liberal Democrats, presumably have | :44:04. | :44:09. | |
lost the public sector vote? It is very serious, who knows about it, | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
we speculate on every programme at work, how many votes the Liberal | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
Democrats have lost, I'm sure we will go on doing that for the next | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
four years, within a stable coalition, which will continue for | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
the next four years. There is a much bigger problem for the | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
Government, made much worse by this, that people don't know what it is | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
for, there is no overarching positive narrative, if you say to | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
people in focus groups, what the Government is about, they say it is | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
just about cuts, that is all they know? I think that what is | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
happening at the moment will just reinforce that. It is a real | :44:40. | :44:46. | |
problem. I think they do think that, agree it is a problem. On the other | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
hand that is itself a narrative, it is a narrative lots of people can | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
support f the Government sticks to it and doesn't move from it can win | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
a lot of support behind it. Do you think there will also be an impact | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
with the high street almost shutting up. Thorntons Jane Norman, | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
shop after shop, the physical impact of the recession hitting | :45:06. | :45:14. | |
them, thinking we have to be careful here. Thornton's isn't the | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
only shop on the high street, but of course this is a rough period, | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
we have discussed this a lot. You have a combination of inflation, | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
you are keeping wages low. Of course, there is also a particular | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
squeeze on public sector workers. lot of stuff has been taken out of | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
the long grass, lots of issues you have to look at if you are going to | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
set the finances in m the right direction. If it is tuition fees | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
and long-term care for the elderly, if it is not public sector pensions, | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
all of these have to be considered in the whole. Where is this going, | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
do you think, will it head into the autumn, or do you think there will | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
be a bigger stage in negotiation between now and the autumn? | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
knows? I think that's, at the moment, the public opinion is | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
broadly on the unions side, but unions are not great at making | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
their case. I don't agree with that, I really don't. It does, in terms, | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
if you ask people do they support changes to public sector pension | :46:11. | :46:16. | |
that is are being proposed, there is a 10% lead for people saying, no, | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
rather than yes. In terms of whether or not the union should | :46:19. | :46:28. | |
strike then it is 50-50. She's right. If the unions don't present | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
themselves well it may change. Negotiation is more real than some | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
of the starker opinions on either side of the argument are making out | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
at the moment. That's all from Newsnight tonight. | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
There is royal fever in Canada where the Duke and Duchess of | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
Cambridge have arrived for their overseas tour. There are will you | :46:49. | :46:55. |