05/07/2011 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Jeremy Paxman, including the interception of messages left on Milly Dowler's phone.

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Tonight, reviled, condemned and now boycotted by advertisers, the


pressure is piling on Rupert Murdoch's News International, as


the police confirm that the parents of the two little girls killed in


the Soham murders have also been contacted by the hacking inquiry.


We have also learned they have been in touch with former police officer


and Crimewatch presenter Jackie Hames, to warn her, she too may


have been hacked. All this blamed on an organisation this country's


politicians have gone out of their way to court. Murdoch veteran,


editors and Tony Blair's spin doctor are all here.


For 160 years it has been the heart of British Rail way engineering,


why has the Government decided to buy new trains, not from derby, but


from a bunch of Germans. It just seems crazy that it could


close, and if it does, Britain will lose its last toe hole in an


industry that we created. Can the transport minister explain why he


thinks this a better way to spend tax-payers' money.


Also tonight. We have been degenerated, not regenerated.


A catastrophically broken promise to the people of Stoke-on-Trent.


How did a Labour pledge to rehouse people end up with things worse


than before. Where are the new houses? We haven't got any.


If it wasn't so nauseating it would be comdal, tonight the News of the


World - comical, the News of the World journalist accused of hacking


Graeme McDowell's phone - Milly Dowler's phone has asked for


privacy for his family. There have been immediate commercial


consequences, the Ford car company is pulling Tuesdaying from News of


the World, others are thinking of doing the same. We have been told


about a major new development tonight in the phone hackinging


story, it centres on two police detective that is appeared on the


BBC Crimewatch programme. Dave Cook, investigating a murder case, and


Jackie Hames, one of the presenters, it is thought the News of the World


believed they were having an affair, and they were married at the time.


There is no question that their phones were accessed. It is the


first stage of investigating exactly what happened and what this


meant. We understand the police investigating hacking at News of


the World have found confidential information on the two detectives


in the miles of Glen Mulcar, the private detective the paper had


employed. We still don't know exactly what happened, we know some


sinister incidents took place, going beyond phone hacking. That


raised issues of personal security that they were both very concerned.


They both had young children at home. It started two years ago with


allegations against celebrities and their representatives. Then


politicians became involved. It was only yesterday with a revelation


that murdered schoolgirl, Milly Dowler's phone had been hacked, the


wave of dues gust threatens to continue, with news today that the


families of the murdered schoolchildren, Holly Wells and


Jessica Chapman have been approached by police. If it turns


out the News of the World hacked into the phones belonging to the


parents of Holly and Jessica, the News of the World will face further


investigation. Any investigation about crimes that were interfered


with, or where hacking took place, adds to the view that there are at


least in parts of the industry, something very rotten. This is


truly immoral what was going on. My wife said to me this morning, this


was sick what was going on, that will be the reaction up and down


the country. It is reasonable to assume that other high-profile


crime cases could have been targets. Another obvious candidate is the


case of missing girl Madeline McCann, who disappeared from the


apartment in Portugal where the family was holidaying in 2007. We


approached the former BBC journalist, who has represented the


McCanns in recent years, he's standing on the right here. He told


us today when he asked his phone company to check the records, they


found several suspicious events in 2008, at the height of reporting


about the Madeline case. Given the concerns that had been


raised, I asked Vodaphone to check my own phone records. Whilst they


prrnt able to go back through every single phone call in and out. They


were able to present me with the customer service records, any time


someone calls to make a payment or renew your plan a note is made by


the operator. Vodaphone themselves flagged up, on at least two


occasions, back in 2008, some suspicious activity on my phone,


which I know had nothing to do with Clarence Mitchell has been


interviewed by the police who have taken this evidence. He says he


can't be sure if News of the World was behind these suspicious calls


or not, he was in daily contact, and says journalists were under


dangerous pressure to deliver new lines. It certainly wasn't me, it


makes no sense. There is no such thing as a CID trial and there


never has been a trial in the McCann case. Rebecca Brook, now


News International's chief executive is coming under intense


pressure to resign. I understand people have been saying that, she's


clear that's what she won't do. It happened in 2002, she's chief


executive of a company in 2011. She's absolutely determined to get


to the bottom of this issue. She has put three senior executives in


charge of it on day-to-day basis, we run this full-time, we make


decision, we report to her, we are under no illusion she's absolutely


determined if things went wrong we will correct them, and justice will


be done. But advertisers are voting with their feet. Ford has pulled


its advertising, pending the outcome of News International's


inquiry. Others, including NPower, Vauxhall, Halifax, Dixon, are


reviewing the accounts. Tesko, one of the biggest advertisers today,


said the latest allegation also cause huge distress. Remember News


International used to tell everyone, including the Press Complaints


Commission, that it was all down to one rogue reporter. I am the


regulator, there is only so much we can do when people are lying to us.


Now we know, we didn't have the evidence then. We know now that I


was not being given the truth by News of the World. New hacking


victims are emerging by the hour, it seems.


Tonight the independent newspaper claips that Rebecca Brooks


personally ordered the hacking of certain phones, and others say that


the victims of 7/7 were also targeted. New developments tonight?


Happening every half an hour. My colleague was reporting earlier


tonight on Twitter that News International passed e-mails to the


police that seemed to show that Andy Coulson, the Prime Minister's


former press secretary, did pass comment, it is thought that new


information has been provided to the police. And News International


has reiterated that full co- operation has been provided. This


is a big issue, it is not just phone hacking, it is about the


payment of police for confidential information. One final thing


reported in the Telegraph tomorrow morning, the paper there. They are


suggesting that some of the survivors from 7/7 may have had


their phones hacked in to too. The former director of


communications for Tony Blair, Alastair Campbell, as is the former


News of the World journalist, Paul McMullan.


Let's start with you, Paul McMullan, Rebecca Brooks said she's staying


because she didn't know what was going on in the cases, could she


not have shown? - known? I have always been quite loyal to her, God


knows why. One slip up was when Hugh Grant came into the bar and we


had a chat over the bar and I said she knew all about it to him, that


was a bit of unguided bar talk. The simple answer is, yes, of course


she did. She, of course denies that? I see. Right, well that is an


interesting position to take. And one that when they first said it


was a rogue reporter, I thought what about the legitimate


investigations we have done that we have had to go into the grey areas


and do these things, surely you should protect us and take the


point that sometimes we have to do these things, not it is just one


person, we never knew anything about it. What was it like to work


there at the time. Glenn Mulcaire, the private investigator, talks


about a climate of constant pressure to deliver things? It is,


you are only as good as your next story. They used to do a byline


count every year, and if you didn't have enough it was goodbye. Can you


imagine yourself in that sort of environment imagine yourself doing


something like listening to Milly Dowler's phone message or something


like that? I thought about that today, I have always been very


proud to be a News of the World reporter, the biggest circulating


English language newspaper in the world, and suddenly I felt ashamed


because of the parents and what they had gone through. In reality,


I have been thinking about it and taking a step back, it is not such


a big deal. I was talking from someone from Kenya earlier today


who said the journalists might have helped. They knew a bit of extra


information. Are you saying you don't think it was an invasion of


privacy? You don't think it broke the law, or obstructive to the


police inquiry or distress for the parents, all those things are


outweighed? The mistake was made, he was so keen to get new messages


he delighted the old ones. That alerted the family that somebody


was tampering with her phone, and it could have been her. Can you


imagine yourself doing that in those circumstances at that time?


I'm thinking, no I didn't, any way. I'm suggesting did, I'm asking can


you imagine yourself doing it, working at the News of the World at


that time? I have to say when you're investigating something, and


you are really just trying to write the truth about an issue, and you


are looking for an exclusive, and if that is available, then, I have


been thinking to myself, would I have considered taking information


from that, because you have to say it wasn't a staff reporter who did


that, it was a PI, who has done it, and then rung up and said this is


what's happened. Do I put my fingers in my ears and say please


don't tell me. No you don't, you listen. You think that is an


interesting lead. But, no, I shouldn't be trying to defend the


indefensible, because it is not going to be a very popular position.


Let me turn to Alastair Campbell here, how big a deal is this?


has become a very big deal T would have been less of a deal if News


International from the word go had taken the approach that Paul has


taken the whole way through this, which is basically to say, we did


terrible things, we accept they are against the law, here we are going


to clear it all up. Instead of which, what has happened is the


truth has been dragged kicking and screaming, lines have changed every


stage of the story. You have had the business willing if away, and


the police and the Government willing it away. Some stories have


a tipping point, and the Milly Dowler revelations last night is


the tipping point. The reason we are sitting talking about it and


the newspapers keeping it going and a debate in the Commons tomorrow,


is we have reached a tipping point, it is not just about the News of


the World, it is about what sort of press, culture it is, and what sort


of practices they have indulged in. Considering themselves above the


law for some time. You know News International, do you think Rebecca


Brooks can survive? It will be difficult, I think in many of the


car crash interviews Alan Greenburg did today, he said the difference


between Andy Coul so, n and this is the allegations were substantiated,


it seems to say if the allegations are substantiated Rebecca will go.


It was broadcast earlier this evening that there was no doubt at


News International that the story has been substantiated and there


may be worse to come. I this from Rebecca's perspective, I will take


her at her word she didn't know anything about it. Paul was saying


the same thing when Andy Coulson knew nothing about it, and Paul


said the whole way along, he sat in the newsroom and saw what went on,


and it was industrial, endemic phone hackinging throughout the


newsroom. I estimate at least 10% of the population hacked into a


phone, your girld friend might have done the same thing. A mother might


do that to see what her son has been up to. That has been made


illegal, it used to be fair game. We used to sit outside Buckingham


Palace listening to Prince Charles talk about ridiculous ideas. It is


not just about phone hacking. This debate in the Commons, I hope they


talk about the Information Commissioner's report about this


relationship between newspapers and private detectives, where there was


one report, the Mail made 60 different journalists make


different payments to the same private detective. The Observer was


on there, we are not just talking about the News of the World. We are


talking about a culture, even Paul would accept has got to change.


The House of Commons is to hold an emergency debate on the scandal


tomorrow, while both main party lead verse wrung their hands today


and expressed their horror at what the News of the World is said to


have done. The acid test is how far politicians are willing to distance


themselves from the paper and the parent company. It is perceived


wisdom in politics that you don't win elections without cosying up to


Rupert Murdoch's publications. Plenty of politicians clear that


not getting up close enough to the sun could cause them to crash and


burn. Mrs Thatcher was bathed in a warm appreciative glow, Tony Blair


made good relations an absolute priority. Losing the endorsement


made Gordon Brown's departure more spectacular. David Cameron, the man


he chose to run his press operation was a former News International


editor. Want to see this influence in


action? Here are some pictures of Tony Blair visiting News


International in 1999. Look what happens when he comes across


Rebecca Brooks, he gives her a friendly wave, before his minders


want to get the cameras to film something else. No, no filming just


for a bit. Patrick Diamond was an adviser in


Tony Blair's Downing Street. It is inevitable, any Government in the


modern age will pay heed to what the media thinks and writes, there


will always be a concern with presentation. What matters is


policy decisions are taken for the right reasons and the best


interests of the country, and not because it seems to be popular with


one newspaper or another. There are sensitive policy decisions around


the issue of immigration, around the issue of the criminal justice


system, and around issues to do with taxation were there has been a


feeling that perhaps some newspapers have been too


influential n terms of skewing the public debate in particular


directions. A generation of Labour MPs were scarred by the way Sun


duffed up Neil Kinnock. When Gordon Brown lost the Sun's endorsement in


2009, they turned on him. Among other stories they ran a damaging


account of his scrawled letter to a mother who lost her son in


Afghanistan. For a politician, it is hard to shine when the Sun isn't


shining. David Cameron learned the lesson too, the man he appointed to


the job of handling his communications was Andy Coulson the


editor of the News of the World, who resigned over the phone hacking


allegation, while maintaining he was ignorant of the practice. David


Cameron is very friendly with News International's chief executive,


Rebecca Brooks, sharing a family meal over Christmas last year.


Today Mr Cameron said he was appalled by the recent hacking


allegations. If they are true, this is a truly dreadful act and a truly


dreadful situation. What I have read in the papers is quite


shocking. When the new Labour leader, Ed Miliband, was picking a


communicatoins chief, he turned from someone from News


International, Tom Baldwin, a former Times journalist. According


to leaked memo in January, he told Labour MPs not to pick on News


It's not just primes and leaders of the opposition - prime ministers


and leaders of the opposition that come into the gravitational pull of


News International. Backbench MPs looking to investigate the phone


hacking allegations report being gently warned against pushing their


inquiries too far. Meanwhile other MPs appear to be on very good terms


with the organisation. The Commons culture, media and


Sport Select Committee has the job of skrutising the activities of the


broadcast - scrutinising the activities of broadcast and media


operations. BSkyB sent one politician a check for the Cricket


Clbu he supports. It was said this was one of many grants made to


grassroots cricket. More than one member of the committee recalls the


chairman using their power to stop Rebecca Brooks giving evidence.


chair said we have to as a committee to think very carefully


before going down that particular road, because there could be


consequences for us personally. And all kinds of revelations could be


dredged up in terms of our personal life. Almost as revenge for telling


Rebecca Brooks to appear against her will. Mr Whitting Dale told


Newsnight he was neither warning or passing on a message, just


recounting what another MP had told him. He said the severity of the


committee's criticism of News International, testifys to his and


its independence. Plenty of other news organisations have plenty of


links with politician, they wouldn't be doing their job if they


didn't. But, the question is, when does contact become pressure, and


when does pressure become sinister. With us knew Chris Blackhurst the


new editor. And my other guests. Something you want to clear up


first? Your reporter at the top of the story got it slightly wrong. We


have a very good story in the Independent tomorrow saying that


Rebecca Brooks actually commissioned one of the private


detectives herself on a personal matter. Nothing to do with the


story. He was the private detective who then went on to provide the


paper with the ex-directory number of Milly Dowler's family. What that


shows is her claims not to know these people and to be distant from


them, really can't stand up. She did contact this bloke, she asked


him to look for, something to do with a phone number, he did the job


for her. It was something to do with her private life. He then went


on later to provide this phone number.


How does it strike you as a visitor to these lands a frequent advise to


but this whole affair? Well, in many ways it is a universal problem.


Because there is a deep mistrust a growing mistrust of the media.


Across the Atlantic, as well as here. But the specific problem of


actually paying private investigators, to collect


information, which is something illegal, to hack, which is


something illegal. That is very specific to here. Yes, the National


Enquiryer may do it, the Star may do it, but mainstream press should


not be able to get away with that. The fact it is going on year, after


year, after year, is very significant. What Alastair said is


the key, this has reached a tipping point, our splash tomorrow in our


inaugural edition will be the back stabs with Rebecca Brooks. These


guys have been able to behave in this way because people like you


and political parties of the kind you belong to and are still


associated with, and indeed the present Government, like to cosy up


to them, because they believe they are important, do you accept a


degree of blame in this? I accept a degree, but it is overstated. I


always think the Sun's influence is overstated. In 1997, the Sun came


out for us because they knew we would win. You flew Tony Blair to


Australia to speak to Murdoch? To get them on side? Partly about that.


Our aim in opposition was to get into Government. That was about


reaching through to the public. So an event like that was a bit of a


no-brainer for to us do. Where you have a point, Patrick Diamond made


a great point in that package. He said, you can have all sorts of


relationships with all sorts of people, providing you are making


policy judgment ace cord to go what you genuinely believe - according


to what you genuinely believe. Tony Blair would sit with Rupert and say


that you are mad about Europe. I think the relationship is skewed if


they are moving half way across to their ideas. You have the note from


Tony Blair after the victory, "thank you for your wonderful


support which really did make all the difference"? Tony is a polite


kind of chap. The Sun likes winners, the reason they really went for


Gordon Brown is because they were desperate for Cameron to win,


because that's who they backed, in the end Cameron didn't get the


majority. That is the other point, politicians worry far too much


about newspapers. That is me saying it, having worried about them in


the past, partly because of the changes that the on-line revolution


represents, newspapers are becoming less influential.


This is an apology for a wasted life, in your case? Not at all, my


life was dedicated towards helping the Labour Party get into power,


and then staying there. worrying about what the press was


saying! Part of the job as press spokesman was to manage the press.


Tony Blair's job was to get on and lead the Labour Party. The media


thinks everybody sits there only thinking about the media. If you


let the media define your reality, you are always making a mistake.


What is given different now is managing the press is no longer


possible, it is no longer five or six newspaper that is you manage.


It is social media everywhere. It is Twitter, it is the Huffington


Post. Stop uing ping your - plugging your paper please.


What do you make of your relationship? What agree with


Alastair is, when he mentioned the Sun, the perception in this country


is that the Sun delivered the election,, they had the poster


front page the day of Neil Kinnock, I would argue that they had already


lost and the clincher was the Sheffield rally the night before.


The Sun did not win that election for Labour, sorry, for the Tories.


Unfortunately, it has been allowed to grow in the Westminster village


and the media village. It is good marketing by the Murdoch people.


this a tipping point as far as people's attitudes to the press


generally, and to the News International papers in had


particular? First of all, I would like to say on behalf of everybody.


Don't plug your newspaper, please? All journalists, in the same way


not all MPs fiddle their expenses, not all journalists got up to this.


On the other hand it is a tipping point. The Milly Dowler thing today,


I have never seen anger and fury, and my own wife said, she didn't


care too much about Sienna Miller having her phone hacked, but she


was livid about Milly Dowler. There is something very profound there.


It is this point on the extent of it, the Information Commissioner I


mentioned before, he did a report earlier this year, one detective


employed by 31 different newspapers, right across the spectrum. Selling


them illegally obtained information. That is why this debate tomorrow


mustn't just be about News of the World and Rebecca Brooks. Isn't it


the extent to which commercial pressures could get the media


straight. Once you get organisations like Ford withdrawing


their advertising from News of the World, organisations like Tesco,


Virgin and various others, thinking about doing so, it is a significant


pressure, from ununexpecting source. The reason they are considering


withdrawing advertise something partly because of the public


outrage. While the public might have been willing to put up


celebrities, even the Royal Family, politicians having their phones


hacked, they are absolutely outraged it happened to an ordinary


family. It means it could happen to them. Also this revolving door that


we see here between the News of the World and Number Ten. That is


outrageous, have they run out of spin miser, do they have to go to


the News of the World. Tonight on Twitter, the spokesman, Greenburg,


he was trending, Rebecca Brooks was trending, Glenn Mulcaire was


trending, even Rebecca Wade is trending. It is a strand of the


public having their say and forcing it and keeping it on the agenda, at


that time when the police, the media and the politicians want it


to go away. I think the first thing the Prime Minister should say is


there will be a full judicial inquiry into the practice. We live


in strange age, one of the clinchers today was to hear Mumsnet


was up in arms, that is much bigger than Tesco and Ford, Mumsnet.


as big as the Huffington Post though! That's enough. Getting on


for half the work force at Britain's last remaining train


manufacturer will lose their jobs. It follow as Government decision to


give the contract to make 1,200 new train carriages to the German firm,


Seimens. It is an odd way to show their commitment to manufacturing


in Britain. The business secretary said it was vital that Britain


retains train making skills. I will be talking to the Transport


Secretary in a moment. Just look at this beauty, she's one of thousands


of mighty locomotives designed and built at the Derby Work a centre of


railway innovation since 1840, the very dawn of the industrial era.


Frank Leeming, now a local councillor, became an apresent tis


in 1948, aged 15. - an apprentice in 1948, aged 15. I feel extremely


proud and think I was part of this at one time, this is my heritage,


and I intend to keep it. Machines like this one are a mighty


symbol of Britain's once great manufacturing industry. But, as we


all know, British manufacturing is not what it used to be.


Or at least, that's the conventional wisdom. But the plant


here in derby has been at the forefront of innovation in the


railway industry. First in the age of steam, then in the diesel


revolution and now with high-speed trains. I took Frank back to see


how the place has changed since his day. I'm so pleased to see the


standard that we are still producing. This is a superb


standard, second to none anywhere in the world. Not for much longer,


according to the Unite union. Unfortunately this vast engineering


work could soon close, Bombardier lost a contract to a German company,


Seimens, for a major Government contract to supply trains for the


London Thameslink network. It leaves this unique British


factory's future uncertain. The company says the loss of the


�1.4 billion contract to Seimens, has led to the 1,400 job losses


announced today. It says by September just one of its five


production lines will be operating. Of course, resuscitating Britain's


manufacturing industry has been a key goal of the coalition


Government. Remember when Cameron shipped the entire cabinet up to,


that's right, Derby. Why? The point of the cabinet today is to ask one


fundamental question, what is it that we can do, in Government, to


help the economy to rebalance, to grow, and for businesses to start


up, to invest and employ people. Here is the Prime Minister in


London. My approach is clear, British business should have no


more vocal champion than the British Government itself.


again. Our economy has become more and more unbalanced, with our


fortunes hitched to a few industries in one corner of the


country, while we let other sectors, like manufacturing, slide.


The Government says that European rules mean it is forced to choose


the best value option for tax- payers, regardless of where


companies are based. Christian Wolmar is a railway historian and


transport export. Most trains for Germany are made in Germany, most


trains in France are made in France. Here we follow the rule. How much


flexibility does the Government have under European law, could the


coalition have awarded the Thameslink contract to this British


factory if it wanted. The UK and the authorities that award public


authorities in the UK are obsessed with the lowest price, with purely


economic criteria for the award of public contracts. In the continent,


in Germany, France and other continental countries, they have a


more relaxed and flexible opportunity to incorporate


socioeconomic criteria, taking into influence how public service


contracts are award. The decision has angered workers


here. These workers have a century- long commitment to the plant.


was a massive disappointment, for the town it was horrendous. This


plant is Britain's last toe hold in the railway industry. If it goes,


the chances are this country will never build another train.


With us now is the Transport Secretary, Philip Hammond. How much


money was saved by giving the contract to Germany rather han


having it made at the Bombardier plant - than having it made at the


Bombardier plant? It is not about money saved, it is complying with


the legal requirements under. there any money saved? The Seimens


proposal represented better value for money. By how much? When


measured in terms that were set out in the original procurement. By how


much? I can't tell you that. Do you know? Of course I know, it is


commercially confidential, and under the terms of the procurement


I can't sit on the programme and talk about the terms of the two


bids. Have you considered the cost of the unemployment? The terms of


the procurement were set out by the previous Government in 2008Er


Passing the buck? I'm explaining how the system works. What the guy


said on there is perfectly true, it is OK to add in socioeconomic


factors, but it has to be at the time you have the procurement.


Labour didn't do that in 2008. If we had decided, as some people have


urged us, to simply ignore the terms of the procurement that


Labour set out, and to award the contract to an underbidder, first


of all, we would face legal action from the successful bidder.


Secondly, under terms of the EU remedies directive, we would very


likely be prevented by legal intervention from signing a


contract any way. Why is it that the German and French Governments


are able to ensure that their trains are made largely in their


own country, and you appear to be incapable of doing so? It is a very


good question, and Vince Cable and I wrote to the Prime Minister the


week before last. That is after the event? Following the announcement


on Bombardier, wrote to the Prime Minister. After the event? And said,


that we need now to look at how we operate within...Did You say, I'm


sorry Prime Minister, we made a mistake? We followed the rules.


have just admitted you made a mistake? I'm talking about any new


procurements that we specify, we need to look very carefully at how


our competitors in Europe, also operating within the same EU


procurement law, can manage to achieve the outcomes they do.


question is how can they do it so much better than you can?


answer is, right up front, when they set out the rirms of the


contract, they set out how - requirements of the contract, they


set out how it will be evaluated, they include the socioeconomic


factors that the expert just talked about. And we don't? In this


particular contract there was no reference to the socioeconomic


issues, so we couldn't. So it is a bunch of civil servants that


doesn't give a dam about the consequences, someone is


responsible? It is about the culture around Civil Service


procurement in Britain, we have to look at it. Other countries put


much more emphasis on the strategic impact of procurement. What it does


to the long-term supply base in their own domestic economy. We have


suggested to the Prime Minister, that we need to look at how we can


make sure that in future procurements, we also give


appropriate weight to that long- term strategy.


You are a member of the cabinet what do you think of Rupert Murdoch


being able to take over the whole of Sky, given what we have seen


over the News of the World's behaviour? I think the two things


are separate issues. The issues around the BSkyB bid are issues of


plurality in the media. It is about the undertakings being given there.


What has happened in the News of the World, if it is true, as the


Prime Minister said, it is completely inexcusable, that is a


separate issue. To another, once great industrial


city, which has fallen victim to official incompetence and broken


promises, it is Stoke-on-Trent. The issue is not jobs but houses. When


we all lived in Gordon Brown's fantasy Government, the Labour


Government made vast commitments to those living in sub-standard


housing. Then came economic reality and budget cuts from the coalition.


As a consequence, the citizens of Stoke, the promise of improvement


has ruined their lives. Pauline and Barbara live on New Port Lane,


nobody else does. Mark and Sharon's home is falling down, it is the


last one on the block. Natalie lives on a street plaged by crime.


This is Stoke-on-Trent, once an industrial heartland, its heart has


been ripped out. Hundreds of terraces have been


demolished, hundreds more stand derelict, all because of a scheme


called Pathfinder. Doreen lived at the end. Gina. Doreen had only just


spent a load of money on her house. Where are they all now? The answer


is rehoused, for some evicted, the promise was new homes would be


built here. Where is the new houses? We haven't got any. Why?


want to know why. They won't invest. They have no money they say. I know


they have more money, it is for private buyers, they won't invest


anything. We have had things put in the paper who they are going to


build, and it hasn't materialised. House building has stopped,


demolition is delayed, what was supposed to be the planned


regeneration of a community has turned into a nightmare. We have


been degenerated, not regenerated. We used to be a community, right


Pauline. We had our own shops. had a butcher's, a grocer's, we got


the club. We want it back as a community. We


want some life into the place. Instead of rats running all over


the place. Do you think you will live to see this place come back as


a community? No. No. Definitely not. There is no community left. This is


no story of gradual decline. It is a story of a master plan. Of social


engineering, of spending cuts, and a broken promise. Stoke was already


in trouble, thousands of pottery jobs were moved offshore. Property


values had collapsed, even as, in the rest of Britain, a property


boom took off. That made Stoke an ideal candidate for Pathfinder. In


2003, Labour's deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, launched


the Pathfinder plan, 90,000 terraced house, in seven cities,


would be cleared and replaced with new-build housing, thousands more


would be renovated, property values would rise. But last October, the


coalition, which had always opposed the scheme, cancelled it. The


promised homes will not be built, Pathfinder is over. But not for


those who still have to live in the middle of all this.


It is not nice, it looks dead rough. You look like you are living here


on your own, there is no-one here. This couple have been trying to


move, but are stuck? Crime is through the roof. It is scary to


live here. We have to leave the lights on in the house all the time.


Even throughout the night so people know we're still in here, if you


smell smoke you instantly think next door is on fire, they are


setting fire to every empty house, it is not being dealt with at all.


It is constant fear of what could happen. So nobody lives here?


are people on both sides that live in this. Brendan Nevin is a housing


expert who helped implement the Pathfinder he is scheme. He thinks


it is putting lives at risk. This was sealed up only last week. That


is an arson risk. There is somebody living next door. Somebody lives


there. If they get in, if somebody gets in there and torches that,


these people are in real trouble. Clearance areas are fundamentally


dangerous people and they need to be got down very, very quickly.


Even if we can't rehouse people and rebuild things, why can't we get


the last people out and make it safe. At the moment there is no


money to buy people out, the money was cut off on 1st April, there


used to be money to manage and clean these place, that money is


gone. The scheme was scrapped eight years in to a 15-year agreement.


Those who drew the blueprints assumed even if the coalition


scrapped the scheme existing commitments would be met? We have


no plan or guidance, we have been left to our own devices with the


money pulled at short notice. has now �5 million to put the


scheme to rest. After that it will rely on market forces. There is


always consensus between political parties that you have to finish


things that have been started, even though the policy has to change.


There was a consensus to make sure no place was left to die, and no


place where the market wouldn't work. We have abandoned that now.


There seems to be an explicit policy whereby places will live or


die by the market. This is a massive change in British political


history. Where it was done with foresight, Pathfinder worked, this


council estate used to be one of the roughest in Britain. It was


plaged with vandalism, dodgy pubs and crime. But Maggie Carter sorted


that out, she was part of a community group that helped shape


the Pathfinder group on the ground. There was apathy, but once people


realised they weren't going to be trodden on but they were going to


be talked to and consulted with, they started to come out and get on


board. Here the rebuilding was done within a short time scale. The


result, new and refurbished homes, on the site of previously sub-


standard ones. Was it ever in the back of your mind what happens if


the money runs out? Yes. thought about it? Yes. Why didn't


the people planning Stoke think about it? I don't know.


But, with the money gone, she's worried that even here, progress


could be reversed. I'm not as stupid as to say things couldn't go


back to what they were, because I am aware that we are on a knife


edge. Do you mean socially, in terms of crime and drugs. Yeah.


Even here. Hanly, in Stoke, was where Arnold


Bennett chronicled the life of the potters. They are now a few niche


business, many remember the hey day. At the community centre they are


trying to keep things jolly. But this is the last bingo session. Lee,


the community worker, employed under the Pathfinder scheme, is to


lose his job, the money has run out. Personally I think we should have


taken a section, demolished and rebuilt it. The people who still


lived here could have moved on into those properties and continued in


that way. Build and move, build and move process. Anybody you may speak


to today would say that to you. That's where we feel it has gone


wrong slightly. They have demolished and not built, so people


are stuck. It has split the community.


Pathfinder was supposed to revive places like this, now, in 12 cities


across the Midlands and the north of England, the scheme is winding


up. Communities are left high and dry.


What haepsd here is a disSASer - what's happened here is a disaster,


one charge levied is a Labour Government that refused to listen


to local people. The other is spite, many believe the coalition doesn't


care what happens to the blighted cities of the Midlands and the


north. The council, the Government would they like to live in the mess


we are living in. You feel like a secondhand citizen.


Beyond the distress and poverty, on these streets, what's left of them,


is a deep distrust, never again will the words "rebegin "and


"renewal" mean - "regeneration" and No time for the newspapers tonight,


apparently, we have delighted you long enough, see you tomorrow, time


The last vestiges of heat have now drained away from eastern England,


it is a cooler outlook, with a number of heavy showers around.


Persistent rain across Scotland. Elsewhere, with a chance of saying


something in the way of sunshine. Sharpish showers scattered around.


Rattling around on a stiff breeze in the southern half of the UK.


Cooler than Tuesday. We are stuck in the high teens, probably not


that high across parts of the South-West, where the wind will


freshen up, bringing heavy, squally showers as we end the day across


Devon and Cornwall and the south west. The limited brightness to the


east of the month tains, not a friendly day.


Across Northern Ireland, some sunshine, heavy showers, light


winds here, those showers could linger for a while. Persistently


wet scene across a good chunk of central Scotland where there could


be over an inch of rain. Further showers to come widely across


northern parts of the UK on Wednesday and Thursday. Difficult


to pin down the detail, but very few places staying entirely dry, it


will be cool, further south, some sunshine, but showers never too far


away. Temperatures a lot lower than we saw to start the week. This is


Presented by Jeremy Paxman.

Newsnight has an update on the claims that a private investigator working for the News of the World newspaper intercepted messages left by relatives for murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler while she was missing in 2002.

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