06/07/2011 Newsnight

There will be a public inquiry into how and why the News of the World

hacked into people's phone messages. It reflect as rising tide of public

outrage, and tonight it got worse. The families of soldiers killed in

Afghanistan have been told it may have happened to them as well.

I feel so appalled by what has happened, murder victims, terrorist

victims, who have had their phones hacked is quite disgraceful. With

the biggest press scandals in modern times getting worse by the

day, I am afraid he hasn't shown the leadership necessary today.

Even Rupert Murdoch claims to be scandalised by what his people did,

yet he also affirms his support for the woman who was his editor and is

now his chief executive. What is to be done with an organisation which

treats common humanity and the law with equal contempt. Is the British

public, in a fit of morality, in any state to make judgment about

the limits of journalism. Also tonight, Richard Watson learns from

a former member of the News of the World team, how his paper bought

policemen. That would be the favourite rendezvous point where

the policeman or contributor would drive in, the person would go up

get into the car and hand over the envelope. Everyone knows fid fillia

is an international crime, but Interpol has said Britain is

failing to track down paedophiles. Are we more content with ourselves?,

this man thinks the answer is yes, and David Cameron is listening to

him. There hasn't been a wave of moral

outrage like it for years. Today as it emerged that even families of

some of the victims of the July London bombings, six years ago, had

their phones hacked, the tide of resentment towards the News of the

World grew even stronger. They found out about it last night. The

anniversary of the bombings is tomorrow. Just before we came on

air, news that families of men killed in Afghanistan have been

warned they may have been hacked. Even Rupert Murdoch affected to be

shocked, there was universal condemnation in parliament, and

such public hostility that a shrew of companies are pulling their

advertising. First tonight, Michael Crick reports.

This morning's front page headlines foretold what many MPs are saying

tonight was a big, big day in British politics.

Indeed, it was. It was the day when we may have seen significant tweaks

in the way in which power is distributed in this country. When

politicians asserted themselves over the media. With MPs, not just

crying halt, to the practices of tabloid journalist, but also crying

halt to the expansion of the Murdoch empire.

Day when backbenchers took the initiative, rather than ministers.

And also, almost incidently, the day when Ed Miliband finally

stamped his mark as Labour Party leader.

At Question Time David Cameron announced there would be an inquiry,

maybe two inquiries. But thepm seemed rattled at times. And Ed

Miliband judged the mood rather better. With the biggest press

scandal in modern times getting worse by the day, I'm afraid he

hasn't shown the leadership necessary today. He hasn't shown

the leadership necessary on BSkyB, he hasn't shown the leadership

necessary on News International. Isn't it the case f the public is

to have confidence in him, he has to calm the thing that is most

difficult, he has to accept he made a catastrophic error of judgment by

bringing Andy Coulson into the heart of his Downing Street machine.

I take full responsibility for everyone I employ, for everyone I

appoint, and I take responsibility for everything my Government does.

What this Government is doing is making sure that the fact the

public, and I feel, so appalled by what has happened, murder victims,

terrorist victims, who have had their phones hacked is quite

disgraceful. That is why it is important there is a full police

investigation w all the powers that they need. That's why it is

important we have sthos inquiries to get to the bottom of what -

those inquiries to get to the bottom of what went wrong. We also

need to inquire how to improve the ethics and morals of in this

country make sure they improve for the future. That is what needs to

be done, that is what this Government is doing, and we don't

have to take lectures from him about it. Today's emergency debate

began with a powerful speech from the Labour MP who has called it.

have let one man have far too great a sway over our national life. At

least Beryl's Last Year lives in Italy, but Murdoch - Berlussconi

lives in Italy, but Murdoch lives here but pays his tax elsewhere. No

country would allow him to have a monoply on sports rights and news

and movies. America, the home of the aggressive entrepreneur doesn't

allow it, we shouldn't. There was much on Murdoch's British

Lieutenant, Rebekah Brooks, and Andy Coulson, the former News of

the World editor, who quit in January as David Cameron's chief

spin doctor. It is now reported police have e-

mails showing Coulson knew of illegal payments to police officers.

Was Andy Coulson aware of this, and did he tell either the Prime

Minister, or anyone else in Number Ten about these e-mails? Because if

he did, it would mean the Prime Minister and members of the

Government would have been aware of this information before the

Metropolitan Police. It is important that the Prime Minister

provide some immediate answers in response to this question. Only a

couple of Tories were willing to come to the aid of Murdoch's people.

I have to say that the relish with which the revelations have been

greeted by some, seeking to take on the Murdoch empire, or engaging in

political pot shots, strikes me as opportunistic to say the least.

other big issue, should, or could, the Culture Secretary, Jeremy Hunt,

delay his decision on whether Murdoch's News Corporation can take

over the whole of BSkyB. Given that there is clear evidence of serious

criminality on the part of some people at News International, of in

any event, without necessarily referring it to the Competition

Commission, to calling a pause, pending further evidence.

Ministers said today that legally they couldn't pause, or block the

BSkyB takeover, on the grounds of the phone hacking scandal. But it

seems that Jeremy Hunt is likely to take his time now in considering

the more than 40,000 responses there have been to his latest

consultation exercise on the takeover. Another idea much mooted

by MPs, is that the regulator, Ofcom, could perhaps decide, that

News Corporation weren't now fit and...

There is some technical problem with that, we can approach the

subject in a lively fashion because we contacted 24 News International

journalists today, asking them to defend their employers, not a

single one of them wanted to talk to us tonight. However, we did

strike lucky on number 25, with Bill Emmott, former editor of the

Economist, not staffer there, but as a freelanceer writes columns for

the Times, we are ajoined by Simon Hughes, the Liberal Democrat, and

Conservative backbencher and barrister, Anna Soubry.

You are embarrassed with this title now? I would be more embarrassed if

I was with News of the World or the other tabloid papers. There are

some issues here, one the legality, the police not investigating, the

relationship with politics at the top of these organisations, and at

the top of politics, and then the fact that this is not going to be

limited to the News of the World, I'm afraid. We need to explore it,

what's going on in other tabloids as well. You are not ashamed to be

working for News International, given what's being revealed? I am

ashamed by what is going on in News of the World, absolutely, I'm

ashamed of any organisation that does. That I write columns for them

on an independent basis. But if they refuse to carry on a proper

investigation of this, if they refuse to really sort this out,

obviously anyone like me has to consider their position of writing

for such an organisation, absolutely. Simon Hughes, do you

believe that Rupert Murdoch is embarrassed and finds the whole

thing deplorable? He has be hugely embarrassed. The problem for him is

this has been visible, increasingly, for five years. I was interviewed

in the autumn of 2006, the trial happened at the beginning of 2007,

the issue, therefore, was on their agenda, on Rupert Murdoch ace

agenda since then. It is all very well now this set of revelations

coming daily to show her collaborating fully, as they are

since the beginning of the year. This is clearly been something on

their watch. As was rightly said, not only on their watch, many other

tabloid papers too, four years with police connivance. It reflects very

badly on your leader's judgment, that he was prepared to take into

the heart of Government a man so intimately involved in practices

like this, I refer to Andy Coulson? I know who you refer to, I don't

think that is fair. It was only until today that there was

revelations about e-mails and his possible knowledge. Because, of

course, he had always denied knowing anything about what

happened before becoming editor. He always said that. I'm assuming that

the Prime Minister asked him and he made it clear that he didn't know

anything about it, so on that basis, he was taken on. But, of course, he

then left. So the Prime Minister was just

naive was he? I don't think he was naive, I don't know. All I can

assume is that what the Prime Minister did was that he asked him,

and he gave him assurances, and what more can you do if you take

somebody on their word. But actually I don't think that's the

big issue by any means. I think the two issues which we have already

identified are obviously how News of the World and other newspapers

have operated, since at least 2002, and of course, the role notably of

the Met, and I'm afraid the police are coming out of this extremely

badly. We will explore some of the issues for the police shortly.

Firstly, on this question of who is to carry the can for this, can

Rebekah Brooks survive? We're both lawyers and people have to have

something proved against them, Andy Coulson left his job at the News of

the World, because on his watch it was proved that somebody had been

doing guilty practices, and he went from that job. If it is proved that

other people, and I know other people have been arrested, if it is

proved that other people were acting, and Rebekah, as the editor,

was aware of that, she clearly is going to be culpable. The good

thing about the new investigation s that, again, because I know from

the interviews I have had with the police, they are investigating much

more widely. They have to look at not just the people who went out to

do the job, but the people who commissioned them, collected the

benefit of that job, or who knew about it. Do you think this time

they get might - might get it right? I think their reputation is

at stake. The new Met Commissioner has to realise he has to rescue the

reputation of his force. What is your judgment, do you think Rebekah

Brooks will survive? I'm ashamed she has not resigned already. I

agree legally with Simon. We can't, as it were, demand for her to be

hanged and drawn and quartered immediately, she should have

resigned. You would have resigned Jeremy, I would have resigned.

would have resigned if it happened in the Economist. No doubt about it.

Given what Tom Watson said today, on the basis of what he said in his

speech is accurate, and nobody has said it is accurate, then, that is,

this is so devastating against her. Because, of course, his allegation

is that she was, can we say it. was all under parliamentary

privilege? I will say then if what he said is true it is devastating.

The press have been drinked at what is called the last chance saloon

for 20 years now, what can a public inquiry do? Firstly, you have to

choose somebody who is entirely separate from all the sorts of

investigations, that does mean a judge. Some colleagues were making

the point, a judge not a member of a Masonic lodge, or the golf group,

not part of the network of people, where police chief officers,

somebody who can all for evidence, insisting people answer, and who

has entire independence and reputation, that has to be the way

forward. I think it is certainly a question now of how you negotiate

the terms of reference for that inquiry, and then separately the

inquiry to do with the police. you have faith into inquiries into

the way the press works? No, the key point of the inquiry should be

into the police, actually. It is the relationship between the police

and the press that an inquiry could expose, the press, no. I think that

the press, I'm afraid, have shown a willful disregard for legality, for

morality, for integrity, they deserve almost everything they can

get. As a defender of freedom of speech, I can't say I want

statutory regulation, of course I don't, but, they have laughed at

self-regulation. It has proved to be farcical, absolutely farcical.

And I know that when I introduced my Private Members Bill, it was

with a heavy heart, I would much rather that the press regulated

themselves properly and responsibly. But unfortunately, time and time

again, they have shown that they absolutely cannot. I truthfully

don't know what the answer to that is. If criminal offences were

committed here, the law is already adequate? The police are the

problem, the police should be enforcing the law, they are not,

because they are being bribed by the press. The Information

Commissioner produced a very robust report in 2006, that categorised

thousands of breaches by a whole stream of titles. On many

newspapers? Many newspapers. Again what was said in parliament today,

I appreciate I can't repeat it, if again that was true, the way that

the police have behaved, their failure in the face of clear

perversions of the course of public justice, and other criminal

offences, their failure to investigate and prosecute that,

should cause us all really concern. What is your reading of the public

mood. Clearly, advertisers are, many advertisers are saying, our

customers are saying don't have anything to do with this title,

which Murdoch will really care about, because it will have a

commercial consequence. Is your feeling that the public will start

boycotting this title or what? that is my view. But they buy it in

such a large numbers, it is such a successful product? It is, but I

think what has happened is so appalling, so obscene, for all the

reasons that are absolutely obvious, I think there is going to be a mood

swing against the News of the World, and indeed, if they are not careful,

other newspapers that begin, as they have done for a long time,

overstep the line like this. Other newspapers unthe same title that

have hardly reported the events of the last few days. That is the

thing to me that would be brilliant, said that in the House today. On

Sunday, almost nobody bought the News of the World, that is the real

indictment. I think the big thing that has changed, I said from the

beginning, if it was a matter of politicians and the Royal Family

and celebrities, bluntly that was a pretty limited interest group, once

it started being something that "ordinary people" were aware of,

then it became important. We never expected it to be in the category

we are in now, which is ordinary people at their most vulnerable.

What is your reading of it, as a veteran newspaper man what do you

think will be the consequences? think the consequences will be a

huge call for statutory regulation of the press. I am afraid I'm

cynical about the public's ability to call for this, I think that they

will boycott the News of the World for a week and then start buying it

the week after. I think publicly, politically, in the rest of the

media, there is going to be such a furore about this, it will be very

hard to stave off much tougher regulation of what we do. That is a

terrible turn of events. Our guest here, Simon Hughes,

claimed today that there was endemic corruption in the police

because of the way that the News of the World paid money to officers.

The commissioner of the Metropolitan Police says evidence

from the paper suggests that what he called a "small number "of

police officers were involved. The arguments about how widespread

it was are raging. But how was it done.

One for Richard Watson. The sometimes shadowy relationship

between police officers and journalists now centre stage in the

phone hacking scandal. News International confirmed payments

were made by News of the World for access to confidential information

yesterday. Now we have been told how they did it.

Our source, who has had sight of the evidence, tells us that the

Metropolitan Police have now identified three or four officers,

who were paid by News of the World. We are told the sums of money

involved are tens of thousands of pounds. Paid by one or two senior

journalists, and the transactions were known about by one or two

senior managers. Tonight, we reveal the extraordinary tactic used by

the police officers to cover their tracks.

Corrupt officers face a big problem, checks on telephone numbers,

addresses or criminal records made for a journalist paying them cash,

leave an electronic audit trail, which could be used to expose them

later on. A former News of the World insider told us how they got

around it. We have agreed to protect his identity, because he

now works undercover. The rules they came up with, is they signed

up certain journalists within the organisation as confidential police

informants, and they went through the whole charade of signing them

up. They would be assigned code names, pseudonyms, and that would

be registered as a confidential al, reliable police source. When they

carried out the converting of a name and address into a phone

number or visa versa, they would tap into the system, information

received from X, Frank, Jim, reliable informant, that this

person is dealing in drugs and using this phone number. We

converted the phone number to find out what the address was, or to

find out what the phone number was that he was dealing with.

perfect cover? Yeah. This account has been confirmed by a second

source, this time a former senior policeman from the Met, who used to

work in the anti-corruption unit. He told us setting up bogus

informant accounts was one of the best ways of concealing corruption.

Other cases of real concern are emerging, detectives examining

phone hacking evidence, part of Operation Weeting, have contacted

the family of one of those murdered in the London bombings in 2005.

of my clients, whose number has been confirmed, was an ex-directory

landline. At the time of the bombings, the families were giving

every phone number they had to the police, in the hope that they would

get a phone call to give them some news. So, you have to ask yourself,

where on earth this journalist has got an ex-directory landline number

from. The conclusion, I know, a lot of people are drawing at the moment,

is it must have come from the police. In an exchange with MPs in

2003, which now looks remarkably frank, the then editor of the Sun,

Rebekah Brooks, admitted sometimes money changed hands. We have paid

the police for information in the past. Rebekah Brooks is now chief

executive of News International. Her boss, Rupert Murdoch, said

phone hacking and police payments had been deplorable and

unacceptable, but he backed her today. One source told me that News

International have passed the point of any resistance, and are passing

all incriminating documents to the police. Our former journalist

contact explained just how rife paying policemen had become. If you

look along Wapping highway, going towards Limehouse, pass the plant,

there is a drive-in McDonald's, that would be the favourite point

where the police officer or contributor would pull in, and the

pulling in and handing over envelopes. If a police officer

releases confidential information to a journalist for money, that

police officer is corrupt and he should be dismissed immediately and

face a trial. There is no argument about it. One more development

tonight, we have just been told that another person, only

peripherally connected to the 7/7 bombings, who gave their number to

the police, was also targeted. This is fuelling suspicion that an

entire list of phone number was sold.

With us is the former Metropolitan Police commander, and Bob Milton,

and the former deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott. Are you

familiar with this technique for money changing hands? It sounds

very familiar to the way that we would actually handle informants

within the police service, the same methodology is being used. How

protect the identity of an informant, it sounds exactly the

same. Whoever has put the system in place, seemed to have a knowledge

of how to run covert sources. Prescott, when you look at this

scandal, are you embarrassed by the way your party kosied up to News

International? There was far too much cosying up to News

International by all the parties, I used to complain about it in

Government. Perhaps people think these guys are important to winning

an election, I didn't hold that view. Anybody with a special

relationship with Murdoch and his operation should be ashamed of it.

Anybody? This guy just used people, that's clear. He used people, he

used the reporters to get the information he wanted, for

exclusive stories. We now know it is criminal acts. We know they are

involved in payments to the police. I have to say this issue was being

managed since 2006, when Mr Murdoch comes in and tells us we are now

going to be transparent, that was in January, when he apologised. Now

we have a situation where they are giving us the prime ministers to

the police issue. That must have been available, and has been

available for years. So it was a mistake, for your party to get so

close to Murdoch? Individuals get close to them. Murdoch only invites

the top crowd. I had an invitation, I didn't go, I have never been to

one of his things. The other thing raised is the question of the

behaviour of the police, these police investigations have been

pathetic and utter failures so far, why is that? I have no idea, I have

no inside information on this, there is a number of reasons it

could be, one just simply poor judgment. Not an understanding of

how serious this matter was, a cursory investigation, poorly done,

and dismissed, it is not until now we realise how serious this is.

This is a very bad day for the Metropolitan Police Service, it is

a bad day for the press and it is an even worse day for the victims

of terrorism, and serious crime, and the families of soldiers who

have lost their lives. I cannot stress how saddened I am by the

performance of the Metropolitan Police on this. For someone for

years who has been trying to get out of there that my phone has been

hacked. It is charityability, and I understand why you are saying it,

on the one hand it is because they felt there was so many things to

investigate, they came together with the Crown Prosecution Service

in correspondence with me, and say we have come to an agreement, as

long as we have two that is it. There was sacks of evidence. The

real offence was to say there is no evidence of you being hacked at all.

It took a commission Tory come along and say they were wrong. It

was complete lie in which the police were involved, the press

were involved, and the Crown Prosecution Service were co-

operating. I don't know what information they had, more

information seems to have been coming out all the time.

Particularly this latest information concerning payments to

police officers. I thought it was the job of the police to get out

the information? When did the latest information come out

concerning payments to policemen, just recently. If has been

available for - It has been available for a while. In January

they said they would co-operate, and the information was available

then. They are always doing robust informations and then they find

bait more information further on. That is more criminal. Do you have

any confidence in the new police investigation? Yes I do.

Commissioner Hague came to me and said I know you have been pressing

for years about it, I know they have denationwide it, I have to go

to a judicial review to do something about T I have to tell

you straight away that you have had 44 messages, I believe this woman

is making a difference. We have only got that because the police

know they have to clear this mess up. From your experience of the

police, that is what makes the difference, an investigation is

prosecuted thoroughly, when the police believe they are under some

pressure to do so? That is not true. The investigation is prioritised.

They made a very poor judgment, lack of political nouse, lack of

understanding, exactly what was under this investigation. That was

the problem. I think now, and I agree with Lord Prescott, I think

there will be a very fiery investigation now. Perhaps one that

should have happened in the past. One very important difference, when

I saw judicial review, it did mean the police would have to go and

explain why they did or why they did not. It was the court that then

the police realised they could no longer hide behind this story of

one rogue reporter, they would have to actually clear it up in a

judicial review. Don't forget, my first judicial review was turned

down, why? Because the police at the time and Mr Yeats reviews today

tell them they had found all the information for the new inquiry.

Michael Crick was rudely interrupted in telling us the Tory

of the day, he joins us now. What is the latest? Ofcom I believe?

of the big questions today is whether, as well as Jeremy Hunt,

perhaps referring the BSkyB takeover to the Competition

Commission, the other possibility for blocking the BSkyB takeover

might be if Ofcom, the broadcast regulator, were to come out and

decide that in the light of events, News Corporation weren't fit and

proper people to hold a TV license. The way things are at the moment,

it is looking pretty unlikely that will happen in the near future. He

they came out today and said they were monitoring events. It has

emerged the relatives of dead servicemen serving in Afghanistan

and they have been told their phones may have been hacked. The

Chancellor, George Osborne, has come out tonight and said he had

been told that his phone number had been on the list of Glenn Mulcaire.

There is no evidence his phone had been hacked. It was George Osborne

who persuaded David Cameron to take on Andy Coulson as the main spin

doctor. It was the Government's position that they were consulting

all regulatory authorities, they have said this since March,

including Ofcom. When I wrote two nights to Ofcom, delivered it at

midnight, the responsibilities extend to investigating privacy

allegations, interference, invasion of privacy. Why are you not giving

that advice to the Government, and the Government's now opened the

second inquiry, to end on the 8th of July, the second consultation

period. I hope, and I said to them, I'm wade waiting for his - waiting

for his reply. They have a responsibility to report on these

people bidding whether or not they interfere on privacy. It has been

done on a large scale, it is about time they got involved.

Somewhere mixed up in the origins of this sordid affair it what was

said to be a campaign by the News of the World against paedophiles.

Newsnight has learned that for all the campaigns there remain as

failure in the way it was dealt with, for every image of child

abuse, a crime has been committed somewhere. Interpol has told us

that Britain is sliding down the league of countries who are finding

the criminals, because we have no central database to store the

information on. We have asked an investigation. Some of the content

of this report is disturbing. For over 20 years I have worked in the

field of child protection, 12 years as a police detective. The British

police are quite good as investigating and prosecuting those

who distribute indecent images of children. But I believe they are

failing to do enough to identify victims, I think they can do better.

Maybe we can learn from other international law enforcement

investigations. I have come to the headquarters of Interpol in Lyon in

France. The task is to help police combat international crime at

Interpol. They maintain a variety of international databases,

including fingerprints, missing persons and stolen passports.

I'm here at the command and Coordination Centre. Officers here

track an incidents happening all around the world. We can see how

busy it is from this map, ranging from bombings, abduction and

kidnaps of children, even piracy. They can cross reference against

photos and DNA on known criminals. What is important to me, is

rescuing children who have been sexually abused, that is why I'm

here. Interpol have a dedicated team that helps to identify and

rescue children whose images and videos have been posted on-line.

This is a case that has come in the last couple of hours. This is

detective Mick Moran, who co- ordinates the team that deals with

crimes against children. In a couple of minute that is this file

was there available for download, 650 people downloaded it. Now they

didn't download that by accident, they downloaded that knowing what

it was. We have a very young girl here who is performing oral sex on

a man. She's probably, well, six, probably. OK, yes. I would agree

with that, I would say maybe five. She is being forced. The first part

of this case is to give the police in each country the unique address

of every computer that was used to download this appalling video.

a bit of luck in some countries there will be searching in the

morning on that information. The second aspect of that is for us

here, the more important aspect, that is just Post Office. We're

getting the information, we are sending it on to the countries to

deal with it. The second aspect is the more important one here, it is

the identification of this victim. This is a victim that is being

currently abused. Have a look at it there, this is a gross sexual

assault being carried out on this child. This is why victim

identification is so important. This girl here, obviously knows the

offender, I would say, and the offences that she is being made to

commit are horrific offences, she can be no more than five or six

years old. Correct. This is the issue about calling it pornography,

for us it is not pornography it is a crime scene. This child is being

abused. We can do something about it. Is it possible we can identify

her and stop this abuse, one thing is for sure, the vast amount of

sexual abuse takes place at home and in the family circle. One

statistically likely is this guy is her father. This guy who is orally

raping her is her father. Straight away, at basic analysis level, we

can see she's white Caucasian, we can see...The Clues are here in

this video, if they can find and identify them they can rescue a

ildchoo. Whilst they were there they identified - the chide, they

identified the country and the exact city. There are articles of

interest, that article there could be very useful. Before we left they

identified the offender's likely employer and immediately passed on

all the information to the local police. You realise that this is

abuse that is happening right now. Right this minute. And if I told

you, seriously, if I told you that there was a girl being raped down

the corridor, you would quick walls in to get in there and assist ter,

what is different about this? - Assist her, what is different about

this? Interpol has shown that international co-operation is the

key to saving children. I was talking through another case which

resulted in a successful identification. Let's be clear,

this is a baby being horrifically sexually abused. You have seen four

different babies here. In those four images. Now, if we zoom in on

that. The only chance they had to save these very young children from

sexual abuse s through one country collecting all the material at a

central point and sending it on to Interpol. Enabling them to analyse

and identify key clues. Most importantly because of this, it

turned out to be a Metro ticket. And because it is a Metro ticket,

it turned out to be a Metro ticket, I could guess it is something like.

That when the officer from that country looked at this, he said

that is a ticket from the Metro in this city, and there is the station

name. So you have shown me horrific abuse of babies, very young

children, the key, and the most important thing was did you save

those children and did people get arrested? As a result of the work

done here and the identification specialists working within the

community, these kids were saved. It is a happens, these children

were all being abused within a creche environment a nursery, the

mothers were leaving their children off to be minded, and the people

who were running the creche were abusing the children. By locating

the creche, they locate the victims, and then the offenders. Two men who

had access to these children, and who are now subsequently in prison.

We have seen how Interpol work. But does Britain have a similar system?

The UK has no national database for child abuse material. The Child

Exploitation and Online Protection Centre have called for one to exist.

But I have learned it will be another 18 months before one is

created. In the meantime a chaotic system exists, with just 47 cases

forwarded to CEOP last year. They did well and saved 22 children, how

many more could be rescued if a central database existed. Claire

Perry is on the Justice Select Committee, and is campaigning for

tougher measures to sort out child abuse material on the internet. Is

it acceptable to wait another 18 months? It is not acceptable for

one day extra. Children every day are suffering appalling abuse and

those images are distrib buelted worldwide. We have to stop that,

the easiest way is to tag the data, work together for a national

database to be circulated amongst police forces and internationally

we know the technology exists, we know the police force want it. We

know that the victims deserve it, we have to go and lobby ministers

as hard as we can and make sure this is put in place as soon as

possible. There needs to be this central

point, and that central point doesn't exist in every country.

have been shown the latest Interpol statistics of identified victim,

they suggest the UK is not doing very well. When you correct for

population size, Norway is at the top, with 33 per million, followed

by Sweden, at 15, Canada, six, Netherlands five, Australia,

Denmark and Belgium all above three, and the US, Switzerland and Germany

are all above two, the UK scores just 1.5, not even in the top ten.

Unlike those other countries, many of the UK's police forces are

working in isolation, and as a result are failing to co-ordinate

victim identification. This is why we need a national database now.

Now, it is the list that includes the Hammersmith Palais and the

Bolshoi Ballet, goes on through carrot juice, porridge, yellow

socks, cheese and pickle, those among you will have figured out I'm

talking about Ian Dury's Reasons to be Cheerful. It is not what you can

do for yourself but what the Government can do for you.

How do we go about it? What makes you happy? In 2002

Professor Martin Seligman's theory, authentic happiness, laid out a way

of scoring the happiness of individuals. His work spawned the

phrase "positive psychology" and prompted shelves full of self-help

books, and in the professor's view, an overemphasis on cheerness. So, a

revised theory, which distills down to the acronym, PERMA. Experiencing

positive emotions, being aware of feelings as they happen, relating

to others well, finding meaning in your life, and getting a sense of

achievement. He's already inspired David Cameron to announce last year

that there will be a move to try to measure our gross national

happiness. If your goal in politics is to make people happier, and you

know prosperity alone won't deliver happier life. You have to deliver

steps to make sure Government is focused on quality of life as well

as economic growth. If this is sounding pie in the sky, rest

assured the office of national statistics is currently phoning

200,000 households to measure how happy we are. But at a time of cuts

in public spending and demonstrations on the streets, it

is an interesting era in which to do it.

Professor Seligman is here now. Can you really make people feel well at

a time like this? Yes, I actually think you can. The question is

how's life going for you, or how's life going for nation?

Traditionally we have measured the economics of it, but what we want

to know about, in Addicks, is how much positive emotion we have -

addition, is how much positive emotion we have, how good are our

relationships, how engaged are we with the people we love, those are

measurable. Are you a natural cheery chap? No I'm a pessimist, I

think they can only do serious research on happiness. Does that

make you think is it worth aiming for? That is a good question. The

issue is, is there something over and above getting over misery. All

public policy, therapy, is aimed at getting rid of misery, the question

is what's above zero. What is above zero? That is what positive

psychology is about. Well being is somewhere above there? Beauty is

not the absence of uingless, bravery is not just the absence of

cowardice. Well being is not just the absence of well being, it is

the presence of real things. Isn't it an immensely selfish

preoccupation? Not quite, the single If, if you are depressed

right now, and you asked me what is the single mood swing move you can

do, it is to help another person. Doing something for another person

is the single biggest boost. our viewers sitting at home tonight,

give them one piece of advice about improving their sense of well being

about life? There are quite a number of piece, one easy piece is

when we have people, every night before they go to sleep, write down

three things that went well today, and why they went well, it is

addicting and six months later, in random assignment placebo-

controlled tests, people who do this are happier, and have higher

life satisfaction, lower depression. Being conscious of the things that

go well in your life. The thing I liked of your's, what would your

grandchildren say about you, is that what you can explain?

question, how can you have more mean anything life? One thing we do,

is we have people write first a vision of what a positive human

future would be, and then write their obituary through their

grandchildren's eyes, in which they say what they did to contribute to

a positive meaningful future. is David Cameron supposed to apply

this? The first question is if we don't measure the right thing we

don't do the right thing, all we have measured is money. The

question is first, measuring well being. It turns out, over the last

decade, people have found ways of measuring pretty much as well as we

can, schizophrenia, alcoholism, mean anything life, positive

emotion, engagement at work, relations with others. The first

thing is to measure the well being of the British people, and then,

and I think this is quite bold of the Prime Minister, to hold one's

self accountable for changes in well being by public policy. Give

us an example? Well, one thing I work on is schools and schools

systems, actually in Britain as well as Australia and the United

States. So what we do is we take teachers and we teach them the

skills of well being in their own life, then teach it to 10-12-year-

old children, then we follow the children through puberty, what we

find is when teachers learn the skills of well being, for the next

couple of years, children have less depression, less anxiety, and

better conduct. So that's an example of a public policy in

education that leads to greater well being. If I were to say to you,

look a pig, lying around in muck is content. What would you say?

not really after contentment. So I think contentment and the smiley

face are not the variables of real psychological interests, they are

things like how engaged are you at work, how good are your relations,

how much meaning do you have in life. A pig lying around in muck

doesn't have a lot of meaning in life. You believe you can give

people mean anything life? Yes, it turns out that unlike the smiley

face, which is highly inherited, your parents pass it on to you,

mean anything life is everyone's birthright, and it is learnable, it

is teachable by teachers to children, it is teachable in the

United States army. Thank you. Some of tomorrow morning's front

There was a 5% drop in the value of shares in News Corporation in New

York today. According to the Mail, even war widows are on the hackers

hitlist. That's all from Newsnight tonight. Kirsty will be your

therapist tomorrow night, until then, goodnight.

No sign of the weather settling down just yet. A showery prospect

for several days to come. A wet start where you live tomorrow

morning. But it will break up into showers. There will be hail and

thunder mixed in. Very few places will avoid them entirely. A cool

day, particularly when the showers come along in a gusty wind.

Temperatures held back into the mid-to high teens at best in most

places. Across the south west of England, maybe around some of the

coasts lengthy spells of sunshine. Even here I wouldn't rely on it.

Frequent and heavy showers blowing in on the Brit south-westerly wind.

If you catch a shower it could last quite a while. There will be some

heavy storms across Northern Ireland, I think, with hail and

thunder for sure. At least we have lost the persistent heavy rain

across eastern parts of Scotland we had today. Lively downpours to come.

This is the situation on Thursday, and Friday, with more of the same.

Limited brightness, again disappointing temperatures, across

the more southern parts of the UK, every chance that we will see

prolonged rain and gusty winds. The big picture on Friday looks like