29/07/2011 Newsnight


29/07/2011

Political editor Michael Crick assesses the state of the British tabloid press.


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Tonight, the long, slow, self- inflicted mess of British tabloid

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newspapers, from the families of murder victims allegedly hacked, to

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the disgraced private detect yef i Glenn Mulcaire, who says he was

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acting - detective, Glenn Mulcaire, who saves acted under instruction

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who saves acted under instruction from News of the World.

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Now libel payments in the Joanna Yeates case.

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And guilty of contempt of court. Can the tabloids free themselves

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from the cycle of decline. Apologies, sackings, investigation,

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and further falls in circulation. We will hear from the detective

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investigating Sarah Payne's death, and why he thinks he was hacked. We

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will debate whether the British popular press is committing suicide.

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The New York Stock Exchange opened today, perhaps not taking the

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prospect of debt default completely seriously, as Congress and the

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President continued to play chicken for control of the US economy.

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we don't come to an agreement we could lose our country's AAA credit

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rating. Not because we don't have the capacity to pay our bills

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wrecks do. But because we didn't have a AAA political system to

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match. Good evening. One of the reasons

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the British press is so vigorous is because it is probably the most

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competitive in the world. With more or less every newspaper seeing its

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readership getting older, younger readers not buying papers and the

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obvious challengers from the Internet, you might they think we

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are now witnessing the perfect storm. Phone hacking, libel case,

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contempt of court, and that was just today. The News of the World

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might not be, in the end, the only tabloid to close. We will hear from

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the detective in the Sarah Payne murder investigation in a moment

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and debate whether the popular press has a future.

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After yesterday's revelations, that the mother of the murdered

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schoolgirl, Sarah Payne, had her phone hacked, by the News of the

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World investigator, Glenn Mulcaire, today, Mulcaire himself entered the

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fray. Hinting he might now reveal all. Responding to last night's

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claims by the paper's then editor, Rebekah Brooks, that he had acted

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alone in hacking Sara Payne's phone. Mulcaire didn't deny he had done

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. There has been a lot of dumping on the reputation of Glenn Mulcaire,

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rather unably I guess, given what he has done. Let's remember he

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served time in prison for phone hacking. He's one of the few people

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that can actually say he's taken his medicine. His statement today

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is clearly saying to the company, if you carry on like this, I will

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spill the beans F Mulcaire was going to speak out, this really

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will crack this case open. I hope he does. If that's not enough for

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the Murdoch press, today the Sun, along with seven other papers, paid

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unknown libel damages to Chris Jefferies, lard Lord of the

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murdered Bristol architect, Joanna Yeates. The Mirror, were also fined

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�50,000 for contempt of court, and the Sun, �18,000. Chris Jefferies

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is the latest victim of the regular witch-hunt and character

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assassination, conducted by the worst elements of the British

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tabloid media. Also today an intriguing story about Louise

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Mensch, the Conservative, who was one of the toughest MPs at last

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week's Murdoch hearings. She issued a statement about her

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friendship with the violinist, Nigel Kennedy, pretty much

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admitting she had once taken drugs with him. Mensch's statement was a

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response to a mysterious David Jones, someone claiming to be an

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investigative reporter, who had also sent his e-mailing inquiry to

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Look, good on Louise Mensch for dealing with this. I don't care

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what Louise Mensch did in night cluebs in the 1990, what she has

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effectively done today is give a finger to a low life journalist who

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tried to dig up dirt on her years ago, probably because she's

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involved in exposing the truth on hacking and involved in the

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committee. She has my full support. I seriously hope whatever story is

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trying to peddle this story will think again. Isn't it legitimate,

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that journalists should look into the background of prominent MPs, we

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are talking about law breaking? Context is everything.

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This is a really miserable time for the tabloid newspapers. With their

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methods under attack from the British public, from the police,

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politicians and now most likely the inquiry led by Lord Justice Leveson.

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They face testify competition, not just from traditional broadcasting,

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but now from the Internet and other social media. And whilst nearly all

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newspapers have seen a significant fall in circulation, in recent

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years, for the tabloid press, the drop in sales has been particularly

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bad. Tabloid newspapers have been in

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decline for some time, over the last 20 years, in terms of the

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circulation they have declined 35- 40%, more than 12 million paid

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copies today to fewer than eight million paid copies per day. They

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have also seen a decline in advertising, particularly in recent

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years, on the back of the recession. That has meant that profitability

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of tabloid newspapers has also declined. So while tabloid

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newspapers are clearly more profitable than their quality

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counterparts, it is also the case that it is becoming harder and

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harder for them to achieve the kinds of big profits that they were

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able to achieve in the past. Nine years ago Glenn Mulcaire made

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a name for himself, by scoring the first-ever goal for the newly-

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formed AFC Wimbledon, who next year start in the Football League.

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honest we should have scored earlier in the game. Tonight,

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Trigger Mulcaire threatens even more dramatic shots. Hinting he may

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yet name big names in the hacking Joining me now is Detective Chief

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Inspector Martyn Underhill, he was the liaison officer with the Payne

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family and investigated Sarah Payne's death. I had a lot of

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contact with Sara Payne, and got to know her personally very well. We

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used to speak to each other a lot on the phone, even when the case

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finished. I remember in 2002, I got a phone call at home on Saturday

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afternoon from a very high senior executive from News of the World,

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who I knew. He said to me, we have got a story we are going to print

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about you tomorrow and the Payne family, I would like you to make a

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comment. He told me the story, which was outrageous and not true.

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I said, I don't know where you got that from, but that is completely

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untrue, if you print that I will sue will you - sue you. They said

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they have a very good source you might as well admit it. I said the

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source was wrong and I will sue. The story was never printed, Sara

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and the family and I denied what was alleged. The matter was never

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resolved in my mind, I never knew why that phone call took place, or

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where the information came from. And then the phone hacking story

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came in, and one thing that struck me about the senior executive from

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News of the World, was that if he had a source, and he had asked me

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for a comment, which I gave, he could have printed that story, but

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he didn't. I think that source was illegal, I think that my phone was

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hacked, my police phone was hacked. Because Sara used to leave me

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messages on the answer phone and I used to leave messages. You know

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the name of the executive, who was it? I don't want to name that

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person, because that person hasn't had a chance to reply to what I'm

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saying tonight. Suffice to say it was a senior member of the team of

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the News of the World, and has been named in the scandal. Can you tell

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us what the story was about, even though it was false? I'm only

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talking about it now because of the hacking scandal. It has remained

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private for eight years, and I don't want to discuss it. This was

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a newspaper that was helping Sara Payne, she thought? So what were

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they up to? Sara and I have a very good friendship. We have never

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agreed on News of the World. When I was a serving police officer, and

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now, I always told her that the News of the World saw Sara Payne as

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a commodity, she sold newspapers. Sara was fefrently committed to

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Sarah's Law, and still is, I respect her for that. I did try

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after this phone call from the executive in 2002 and several times

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since, I said the newspaper will turn on a sixpence, you are a

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commodity and they will hurt you. Are you basically saying they were

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double dealing, on the one hand they were helping her and on the

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other hand digging dirt? The phone call I received in 2002 clearly

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showed double dealing, I said to her to leave the paper. She

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believes in Sarah's Law passionately, News of the World

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achieved massive amount with Sarah's Law, which I'm proud to

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have been part of. I can understand why she didn't leave, I warned her

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saying the paper is double dealing. The events of the last few days

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have shown that. You don't want to talk about the story because it was

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false? It was, completely. This about your conduct as a police

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officer, or were they looking in supposedly private matters, they

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were digging dirt? This was private matters between myself and the

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Payne family, which would have been embarrassing for me personally and

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my relationship at that time and would have been terrible for the

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Payne family as well. Did the Payne family, or Sara not say this is

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terrible, it is clearly wrong, they shouldn't be doing this. You said

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obviously she was committed to going ahead with Sarah's Law, and

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being helped in that. But this is pretty awful? It was awful at the

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time, and it still is, they were digging dirt. And clearly, in my

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view, they were hacking phones, mine and Saras, she did challenge

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the News of the World over it, and I did, saying I would sue. To be

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fair I never had a good relationship with the News of the

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World, I was a police officer dealing with the Payne family, I

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was constantly in conflict with the news. I have met all the executive,

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Rebekah Brooks, and others, because of the Sarah's Law campaign.

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wouldn't name this executive tonight, but in Operation Weeting,

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and subsequent inquiries you could? I have named the News of the World

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executive to Operation Weeting, but I'm not prepared to name them

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tonight. Now joining me is the academic and

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writer, Sarah Churchwell, the Conservative MP, Jacob Rees-Mogg,

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and the former People editor and editor of the British journal

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review, Bill Haggerty. Is this tabloid - are the tabloids slowly

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committing suicide? I don't think the, I think there have been very

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disgraceful things that have gone on, these are working their way

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through the courts and the contempt of court action, not to mention the

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hacking trials that either have taken place or will go ahead.

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see they still have an important role in British life. They do act

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as a disinfectant? They sell millions of copies and are free,

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competitive, aggressive press, and keeping British public life honest.

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It would be great loss if we didn't have an effective and free press.

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But they don't stick within the law. It is not that we need new laws

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within the law of contempt and libel, and we're hearing a lot

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about phone hacking? It is quite right the law should be applied.

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And it is being applied. It is hard to see legally what the problem is.

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You don't need more laws, just apply the ones that exist. Do you

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think the tabloids are slowly unravelling, they face a lot of

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competition, not just with each other but other sources of

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information? I think the problem s I agree we need a free press. If we

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needed any evidence we need a free press, the story wouldn't have

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broken if it weren't for the Guardian. For would the MPs'

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expenses scandal? They provide us with investigation, accountability,

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they are providing a forum for all kinds of things we need. The

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problem with the tabloids we have been seeing here, is they haven't

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been behaving like journalist, but novelist, they have been saying

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what they felt like. It is not about operating within the bounds

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of the law, they have clearly been breaking the law. They have been

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making things up, and they haven't operated within the boundaries of

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journalistic ethics. Beyond that they are breaking the law. It seems

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to me there are two problems, the law needs to be enforced, as you

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said, it is being enforced, too often it is left to individuals to

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try to pursue civil case, which often individuals can't do. But

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there does need to be some kind of reckoning about journalistic ethics.

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Not just reckoning about journalistic ethic, perhaps the

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press has never been entirely respectable, perhaps that is a good

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thing. But journalists used to read essential law for journalist, they

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used to know what libel and contempt was? I think you are right.

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It is essential they are not respectable. It isth has always cut

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corners and been - it has always cut corners and been close to the

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edge, but not this. It is over relatively recent years, I hope

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that what has happened now, and there May may be more to come, will

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stop it and put it back on track. Do you think it is the popular

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press and it is popular because it is popular, because people want to

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read it, do you think it is declining, it doesn't have the

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capacity to influence things that it perhaps did a year ago? It is

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declining b but not with what is happening now, it may decline

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further, but the Internet gave it a terrible body blow, and the

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industry hasn't found Outtara to harness the Internet and use it to

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make profits. This story about Louise Mensch, we heart MP, Tom

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Watson say it is ridiculous, but that story about what she may or

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may not have done in her 20s, coming up now, does it suggest that

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some people are out for revenge to try to get her? There's no evidence

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of that. I was at Oxford with Louis when she never seemed to have more

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than a small glass of sherry, I'm surprised by the revelations.

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didn't dance on tables with Nigel Kennedy yourself? No I didn't, I'm

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not a great dancer on tables. The timing is highly suspicious, I

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would certainly agree with that. It is very odd that the papers should

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be going back to raking up things people may or may not have done.

:15:31.:15:35.

you think there is a fear in MPs, there was a fear that member who

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talked to MPs about what the newspapers might drag up, there was

:15:39.:15:44.

a degree of fear? I have never really believed that. I was only

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afraid of Nigel Dempster thrfrbgs a worry about gossip story, it is -

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there was a worry about gossip stories, it was never a serious

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worry. There is too much concentration on spin, and that the

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Government had to control the media. That lasts for a relatively short

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time. New Labour was very good at it in its early days, and became

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bad at it as the press saw through it. And that created a feeling that

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the press was more powerful than it ever was. Do you think we will end

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up with a new reinvigorated Press Complaints Commission, the boss

:16:18.:16:22.

quit today, is that what we want? You need some kind of regulation.

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You need some kind of accountability. I don't believe it

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should come from the Government. The obvious objections to

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Government controlling the press is precisely that you no longer have a

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free press. You have to have the ability to criticise, investigate,

:16:35.:16:38.

and not to be partisan and political. It needs to be something

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with teeth, that can say, not just if you have broken the law, but

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things like printing the facts matters. It matters if you make

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things up wholesale. If you are a newspaper and claiming to tell the

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truth t should matter and does matter. There will be more burdens

:16:50.:16:53.

on newspapers from now? I think, but self-regulation has to be the

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way forward. It hasn't worked properly, without a doubt. There is

:16:57.:16:59.

not one political party that warrants statutory regulation of

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the press. Indeed it would be very bad for democracy and the country,

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were that to happen. But I do think there has to be major overall of

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the Press Complaints Commission, a serious one, that is going to be

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very difficult to. Do Do you think another newspaper - - very

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difficult to do. Do you think another newspaper will go. I spoke

:17:22.:17:25.

do you when the News of the World went? I think under these

:17:25.:17:29.

circumstances no, but one could go with falling circulation and

:17:29.:17:33.

inability to harness the Internet make profits. People seem to forget,

:17:33.:17:36.

many people seem to think the newspapers are a public service,

:17:36.:17:42.

but they are not, they have to make profits to survive. When they say

:17:42.:17:46.

newspapers only want to sell papers, it is true. Did you weep when the

:17:46.:17:50.

News of the World went? I didn't, I very rarely saw the News of the

:17:50.:17:53.

World,ly confess it always wrote about celebrities I had never heard

:17:53.:17:59.

about, it wasn't my weekend reading. I do like the Sun, however, I have

:17:59.:18:02.

always thought it is a very well written, good political newspaper.

:18:02.:18:07.

I would be sorry if that got into trouble. But I think newspapers

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always have waxed and waned, this is not the first newspaper to have

:18:11.:18:17.

closed. The ska Telegraph - the Telegraph incorporates any number

:18:17.:18:20.

of newspapers that have closed over the years.

:18:20.:18:24.

The idea of the richest country in the world, deciding not to pay its

:18:24.:18:28.

debts, sound like a cross between a nightmare and a joke, but President

:18:28.:18:32.

Obama was not in a jokey mood when he lectured Congress today about

:18:32.:18:35.

the failures of the American political system. To get to grips

:18:35.:18:40.

with raising the debt ceiling. The clock is ticking towards a possible

:18:40.:18:44.

debt default next Tuesday w profound impli cakess for the

:18:44.:18:47.

world's financial markets - with profound implications for the

:18:47.:18:53.

world's financial markets. In the new film, Campaign America,

:18:53.:18:59.

he leads the world out of crisis, who is the hero and who is the

:18:59.:19:03.

villain, does he need saving from himself. Right now a $14 trillion

:19:03.:19:07.

debt monster threatens to knock the financial world off course, sending

:19:07.:19:14.

it into a slowdown or worse. To defeat it Republicans and Democrats

:19:14.:19:18.

must unite. All they have to do is to lift the US Treasury's debt

:19:18.:19:25.

limit by Tuesday. Which hero can wake the US up from a financial

:19:25.:19:35.
:19:35.:19:43.

nightmare, born of political The American people have made it

:19:43.:19:47.

abundantly clear, they don't want us to raise the debt limit, whether

:19:47.:19:51.

it is a short-term raise or a long- term raise. It is the President who

:19:51.:19:56.

doesn't seem to understand the magnitude of our national debt.

:19:56.:20:00.

Taxes are too low to cover spending, and the TEA Party, won't let them

:20:00.:20:06.

rise, but for every dollar the US spends it has to Moran than 30 cent,

:20:06.:20:11.

old-style Republicans are angry. The idea seems to be, if the House

:20:11.:20:16.

GOP refuses to raise the debt ceiling a default crisis or gradual

:20:16.:20:21.

Government shutdown will ensue, and the public will turn en masse

:20:21.:20:25.

against Barack Obama. Republican House that failed to raise the debt

:20:25.:20:28.

ceiling would some how escape all the blame. Then Democrats would

:20:28.:20:34.

have no choice but to pass a balanced budget amendment and

:20:34.:20:37.

reform entitlements and the TEA Party Hobbits could return to

:20:37.:20:41.

middle earth, having defeated Mordor. Today there was a renewed

:20:41.:20:47.

push to get the deal done. There are plenty of ways out of this mess.

:20:47.:20:51.

But we are almost out of time. We need to reach a compromise by

:20:51.:20:54.

Tuesday, so that our country will have the ability to pay its bills

:20:54.:21:00.

on time, as we always have. Bills that include monthly social

:21:00.:21:02.

security cheques, veterans' benefits and the Government

:21:03.:21:05.

contracts we have signed with thousands of businesses. Keep in

:21:05.:21:11.

mind f if we don't do that, if we don't come to an agreement, we

:21:11.:21:15.

could lose our country's AAA credit rating. Who actually does the US

:21:15.:21:20.

Government owe money too? There are small holdings by investment funds

:21:20.:21:25.

and oil exporters, of the foreign cet creditors, the biggest is China,

:21:25.:21:30.

followed by Japan and the rest of the world. No wonder China is often

:21:30.:21:33.

called America's credit card. The biggest lender to the US Treasury

:21:33.:21:38.

is the US itself, institutions from pension funds to the Federal

:21:38.:21:46.

Reserve. The sharpest critics of the United States have described it

:21:46.:21:50.

as a country with Social Democratic spending and TEA Party taxes, you

:21:50.:21:54.

can't go on like, that but it is still hard to believe we are

:21:54.:21:57.

talking about the world's wealthiest country, perhaps not

:21:57.:22:02.

being able to pay its billsment how likely is that nightmare - its

:22:02.:22:06.

bills. How likely is that nightmare society? A US sovereign default,

:22:07.:22:11.

even if it is technical, short lived, made good in a matter of

:22:11.:22:18.

days, will cause n my view, a worldwide recession. It is going to

:22:18.:22:22.

completely disrupt financial markets from here to Tokyo.

:22:22.:22:26.

chances of that are now small, but not negligible. What is more likely

:22:26.:22:31.

than not, that next week there will be a fudge, no default, but no

:22:31.:22:36.

convincing package of reform either. If so, analysts say, the US would

:22:36.:22:42.

lose the AAA credit rating that allows it to borrow cheap money.

:22:42.:22:46.

Getting to that new equilibrium, where the new underline safety of

:22:46.:22:51.

the dollar is less than before, where this anchor of global

:22:51.:22:56.

stability is becoming more brittle, that will require higher yields and

:22:56.:23:00.

a much weaker dollar, and the combination will be weaker activity

:23:00.:23:03.

in the US because of the higher interest rates, and weaker activity

:23:03.:23:10.

in the rest of the world, because the US will be exporting with

:23:10.:23:13.

weaker demand to the exchange rate. The trouble is there are banks and

:23:13.:23:16.

private institutions around the world whose rules say they must

:23:17.:23:21.

invest in only AAA rated securities. If the US gets downgraded, they

:23:21.:23:25.

will be holding thrillions of US debt against their own rules.

:23:25.:23:30.

problem is, if the US moves away from AAA rating, what do they do?

:23:30.:23:33.

Now in a small country they would sell their bonds, but in the case

:23:34.:23:37.

of the United States, the bond market is so huge, it is so big,

:23:37.:23:41.

and the ownerships are so large, that it is really the central banks

:23:41.:23:44.

that will have to change their mandate, rather than selling these

:23:44.:23:49.

bonds. Because there wouldn't be enough buyers? Well, there wouldn't

:23:49.:23:52.

be enough buyers in the world really, the world's not big enough

:23:52.:23:58.

to absorb the amount of debt the US has.

:23:58.:24:02.

Whatever Captain America's trouble, international investors are more

:24:02.:24:08.

likely to waive the rules rather than dump dollars. As the market

:24:08.:24:16.

opened, investors must have been wondered if a debt-free US could

:24:16.:24:20.

ever be taken seriously. My guests are with me. Would

:24:20.:24:25.

Republicans rather see the richest nation on earth default on its

:24:25.:24:29.

debts than raise taxes? Thank you, first of all, for the opportunity

:24:29.:24:33.

to come on your show and talk about grassroots American politics, which

:24:33.:24:37.

I wrote a book about, it is called Right Angle, perhaps after the

:24:37.:24:42.

events of the last two days I should have called it Handbook for

:24:42.:24:46.

Hobbits. We don't want to see the country default, we don't think

:24:46.:24:49.

that is where it is headed. In your report you talked about paying our

:24:49.:24:53.

bills and defaulting in the same sentence. They are really two

:24:53.:24:59.

different things. We can pay our bills n fact we have $200 billion a

:24:59.:25:05.

month coming in, our bills are $145 billion, we have enough to pay

:25:05.:25:09.

bills. The world should not be concerned. We have a net safety.

:25:09.:25:14.

The world is concerned and so is senator John McCain, he said it is

:25:14.:25:18.

crack political thinking and called you a political Hobbit. Yes he did.

:25:18.:25:25.

But what he for gth got about The Hobbit trilogy, is The Hobbits win

:25:25.:25:31.

in the end. What is going on is the bill is the safety net bill, that

:25:31.:25:35.

covers our paying our bills every month. What we're really talking

:25:35.:25:40.

about here is the deficit spending that is going on, and how do we

:25:40.:25:45.

stop the deficit spending, no-one can spend in the deficit without a

:25:45.:25:49.

consequence. Our consequences are coming up right now. How does

:25:49.:25:53.

defaulting on your debts help. That I think senator McCain was

:25:53.:25:58.

suggesting you're living in some kind of fantasy calling you a

:25:58.:26:03.

Hobbit. He wasn't suggesting you defeat Mordor? We are not living in

:26:03.:26:08.

fantasy. And our demand is that we live within our means. Which is a

:26:08.:26:12.

balanced budget amendment. That is what we are asking for. Balance the

:26:12.:26:17.

budget. That is what we want, first of all, is for them to take that up,

:26:17.:26:22.

and senior Harry Reid says he has no choice, he does, we have -

:26:23.:26:29.

senator Harry Reid says he has no choices. We have said cut, and

:26:29.:26:32.

balance. Senator Harry Reid defeated you. But the big point

:26:32.:26:37.

surely is that this could very easily be a rerun of the mid-1990s,

:26:37.:26:41.

when a Republican Congress couldn't agree with a Democrat President,

:26:41.:26:44.

and Bill Clinton won the next election by landslide, because the

:26:45.:26:49.

country, in the end rallied round him? I think when you talk about

:26:49.:26:55.

politics in America, you need to look back at 2010. We sent a clear

:26:55.:26:59.

mandate, it was over two third of our country that agrows we need to

:26:59.:27:02.

balance this budget, - agrees wrecks need to send a balanced

:27:02.:27:05.

budget amendment to the people. We need to quit spending like we are

:27:05.:27:12.

spending. That is what we are asking them to do, deal with this.

:27:12.:27:16.

We are not sending them to default. They are putting us in this

:27:16.:27:19.

situation. They are in the majority, they could come up with something

:27:19.:27:24.

themselves, instead, Senator Harry Reid just sits back and says no, no,

:27:24.:27:27.

no. Instead of presenting something himself. Are you concerned how this

:27:27.:27:31.

is seen around the world. The British business secretary, Vince

:27:31.:27:37.

cable said the world economy was being held hostage by American

:27:37.:27:40.

right-wing nutters? Of course we're concerned about how the world will

:27:40.:27:44.

be impacted by what we do. And that's why we are taking steps to

:27:44.:27:49.

make sure that we correct the course we are on. We don't want to

:27:49.:27:53.

drag the whole world economy down. That is why we need to correct our

:27:53.:27:56.

economy and the best way to do that is to get a balanced budget

:27:56.:28:02.

amendment in place, and then deal with this situation that we're in

:28:02.:28:06.

by cutting and capping. Thank you very much, we will watch with

:28:06.:28:10.

interest what happens over the next few days.

:28:10.:28:13.

Now Michael Crick is here on his last appearance on Newsnight to

:28:13.:28:19.

help us review the papers. What have we got. The front page of the

:28:19.:28:23.

Telegraph is saying MPs on the Culture Select Committee are

:28:23.:28:26.

Culture Select Committee are preparing to recall James Murdoch

:28:26.:28:29.

after three senior former News International executives have

:28:29.:28:32.

disputed the evidence he and Rebekah Brooks gave last week.

:28:32.:28:36.

Interesting story on the front page of the Guardian, they say Miliband

:28:36.:28:40.

is taking his first steps towards reconciliation with his brother, by

:28:40.:28:45.

agreeing to be an unofficial ambassador from the Labour Party to

:28:45.:28:48.

university and college campuses. Another story that struck me on the

:28:49.:28:56.

front page of the Financial Times, about our former colleague Laura

:28:56.:29:03.

Kunsberg about how when she joined ITV recently she took 60,000

:29:03.:29:09.

Twitter followers with her. You're in that story? I did the same sort

:29:09.:29:14.

of thing, I have a more modest band of followers. I decided not to loaf

:29:14.:29:18.

them here and hope they will come with - leave them here and hope

:29:18.:29:21.

they will come with me. That is all from us, it is Michael's last show

:29:22.:29:25.

before he quits journalism to join channel 4 we leave you with a few

:29:25.:29:30.

of the politicians he has made friends with over the past few

:29:30.:29:38.

years. REPORTER: Aren't you taking the quiet man business a bit far.

:29:38.:29:48.
:29:48.:29:50.

Why are all the heaviests trying to get me out of there. Wouldn't be to

:29:50.:29:56.

be better to spend the next week. Jeffrey Archer, clip, clip, clip,

:29:56.:30:01.

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