02/08/2011 Newsnight


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Tonight, America steps back from the brink of a debt default, but

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has the crisis fatally damaged Barack Obama's capacity to lead?

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Voters may have chosen divided Government, but they sure didn't

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vote for dysfunctional Government. With Wall Street plunging tonight,

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we will ask former presidential candidate, Howard Dean, about the

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stalling of the US economy, and the splutering of Obama's re-election

:00:30.:00:35.

campaign. With the eurozone also wobbling,

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will Euro-sceptics strengthen their demands for renegotiating Britain's

:00:40.:00:43.

terms of entry. Still no sign of military

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intervention in Syria, is the lack of co-here is ive unity in the

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country affecting the change. Hundreds of smear tests go

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unprocessed, as confusion rages in the pathology labs.

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America's top military man goes to Afghanistan to say goodbye to the

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troops w a little help from his friends. They know what they are

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face, away from their families, trying to fight war on the surface

:01:12.:01:22.
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of the moon. It has been called the lowest point

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in the Obama presidency, and a sugar-coated sat tan sandwich. Both

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Houses have voted to raise the debt ceiling and cut spending. Any

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comfort the deal has been done has been overshadowed by the Dow

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plummeting, Wall Street seems less bothered by the voting on Capitol

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Hill than the indicators, the US economy is growing so slowly it is

:01:48.:01:52.

reaching stall speed, with very serious consequences for President

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Obama's re-election efforts next year.What actually did happen

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today? Basically a deal was done and the most important thing to

:02:00.:02:04.

remember here is a disaster was averted. The disaster that might

:02:04.:02:07.

have happened if the richest country in the world had said we

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can't pay our bills. Even just for a few days. The Senate approved the

:02:11.:02:16.

deal that was done in the House of Representatives last night,

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senators voted 76-26 in favour of it. Obama signed it into law, it is

:02:20.:02:24.

clearly a long way from what he wanted. There are two ways to

:02:24.:02:28.

reduce a deficit, you can either cut spending or you can raise taxes.

:02:28.:02:34.

He wanted to do both. But, unfortunately he was prevented from

:02:34.:02:37.

raising taxes from Congress, that was the price of doing the deal.

:02:37.:02:41.

President Obama made it clear that he hadn't given up on the idea of

:02:41.:02:46.

raising taxes in the future. I have said it before, I will say it again,

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we can't balance the budget on the backs of the very people who have

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bourne the biggest brunt of this recession. We can't make it tougher

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for young people to go to college, or ask seniors to pay for more

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health care, or ask scientists to give up on promising medical

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research, because we couldn't close a tax shelter for the most

:03:07.:03:11.

fortunate among us. What does this bill do? In economic terms it

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raises the debt limit, it goes up from $14.3 trillion, to $16.7. They

:03:19.:03:25.

can now borrow up to $16.7 trillion. On top of that, there have to be

:03:25.:03:28.

spending cuts of $2.1 trillion, from the Government over the next

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ten years. Which sounds impressive, but then you look at how the stock

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market reacted, as you were mentioning earlier, it wasn't a

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particularly favourable reaction. The Dow Jones closed more than 280%,

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that is not a ringing endorsement of the fact that the deal was done.

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Why didn't they like it? Given that we are talking about this potential

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calamity, Wall Street was distracted, it wasn't watching

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Washington but mane Street USA, there are a number of worrying

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figures out today. We saw consumer spending with the first fall in two

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years. Yesterday we had manufacturing showing a downturn

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for the first time in two years. The crucial thing, of course, is

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growth, if consumers aren't spending, normally consumer

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spending is two thirds of the growth the US gets. At the moment

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you are looking at spending which is looking very depressed. You have

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had growth of a feeble 1.3%. So main Street USA isn't looking

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healthy. This all began with the United States maintaining the AAA

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credit rating? One credit agency said the US can deep the AAA status.

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You have also had some endorsement from the IMF. All eyes will be on

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Standard & Poor's, they were the one that is warned if a serious

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deal wasn't done when the US wouldn't deep their AAA credit

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rating. They wanted $4 trillion off the deficit, they have only got

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barely half that. With the economic back drop, I referred to there, and

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the fact that unemployment is more than 9%, they have to keep a very

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serious watch on the US economy, just in order to keep their

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credibility. What could happen, if they do lose their AAA status that

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could still happen, is the cost of money could go up, and with the

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state of the economy, that is the last thing you need. For their

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thoughts on the political prospect ace head, I'm joined by consultant

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Taylor Griffin, who worked on John McCain in the last election, and

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Howard Dean, a former senator himself, and a former Party

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Chairman. Howard Dean, do you think Barack

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Obama did emerge from this as the biggest loser? I think he emerged

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the big winner. Any time you get something done the President gets

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the credit, when something doesn't get done the President gets the

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blame. I think this was a baby step, they kicked the can mostly down the

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road. A lot of tough decisions haven't been made yet. I think the

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fact this was averted is mostly down to help President Obama, and

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if you look at the ratings of Congress, they are extraordinary.

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There was a poll out yesterday, 70% of the respondants did something

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they had never done before, they gave words, instead of just

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answering yes or no, or on a scale of one to ten, they used words like

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"ridiculous, "outrageous, "badly behaved", to describe the Congress.

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They had a 2% popularity rate in this poll. I think the President

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has easy competition now. I think it will be a close race, but any

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kind of deal would benefit the President. Taylor Griffin, do you

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take that criticism of Congress on board a lot of people looking at

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the speaker, John Boehner, saying he couldn't run his own party,

:06:54.:06:59.

never mind the Republicans running the country? Governor Dean is

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exactly right. The President definitely avert add really

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popularity disaster here if that deal hadn't gotten done. The view

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of Congress is very negative, and the public's view of the

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President's handling is a little better than Congress. But the

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bigger problem the President now has going forward, is that this

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debt deal sets a lot of things in motion to keep these fiscal issues

:07:20.:07:24.

on the front burner from now until the 2012 election, and going

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forward. That's an area where Republicans have a bit of an

:07:28.:07:32.

advantage, it will be tough for the President to deal with, especially

:07:32.:07:38.

considering the economic news that he will get blamed for asle. Some

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Democrats said this is a sat tan sandwich, one put it colourful -

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Satan sandwich, one put it colourfully, and hit the poor, and

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make America not vote for President Obama? I said I was from the

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Democratic wing of the Democratic party, the more progressive end of

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the spectrum. I don't think on the face of it the deal is that bad. We

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don't know what will happen in November when this commission has

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to come forward with some ideas. But the President does have some

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tools in its tool box, one of which is the Bush tax cuts expire in

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early 2013 he can let them expire, that will bring in a substantial

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amount of revenue to start to balance the budget. This is a tough

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one. I actually agree with Taylor, I think even though the President

:08:23.:08:28.

gets a short-term bounce out of this, it is a long-term economy

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staying bad he has a tough election. I think he will get re-elected, I

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don't think the Republicans can say they are running because they are

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not Barack Obama. That will not work. Governor Dean, do you accept

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that spending cuts will hurt the poor, as the Democratic wing of the

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Democratic party, that is not what many Democrats want to hear, that

:08:46.:08:49.

is why they are some what irritated by the President? The spending cuts

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we have seen so far are by and large not a disaster. The health

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care was left alone, social security was left alone. Those

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things matter enormously. The college opportunities were left

:08:59.:09:04.

alone. The problem is what happens in November, there could be

:09:04.:09:09.

substantial cuts to Medicare, those fall mostly on providers. There is

:09:09.:09:12.

a, I love the timebombs, in every piece of legislation that comes

:09:12.:09:16.

through. I had to read the whole bill, I'm not very good at because

:09:16.:09:22.

I'm not a lawyer. One of the things says in the Medicare cuts are more

:09:22.:09:26.

than 2%, then you take across the board cuts of all discretionary

:09:26.:09:30.

spending, that would hurt the poor and be a huge problem. We don't

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know. They kicked the can down the road, they did get the deal done,

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but they haven't really put a dent in the deficit.

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One of the problems for the Republican party, is you have a

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great opportunity in 2012, but equally, as a party, you are

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perfectly capable of picking one or two candidates who most Americans

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think are pretty loony? That's one of the dangers here. Is this has

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ban victory for the TEA Party wing of the Republican party, which is

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not happy with it. So to speak. They are going to be looking for a

:10:06.:10:10.

candidate that really supports fixing what they think is a bad

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debt deal, if that means the Republicans end um nominating

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somebody like Michelle Backman who would be more of a challenge to

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elect in an election, this could be a negative thing for the

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Republicans. If it keeps the focus on fiscal issues, that is where the

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Republicans can make headway with it. They have a lot to prove

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between now and the election, that they can handle it better. I know

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you will remember 1995 and 196, where Clinton portrayed Congress as

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wreckers, that is the kind of rhetoric that we will hear in the

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next 12 months? This is where I disagree with Taylor, or sort of

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agree. I think the TEA Party is doing enormous damage to the

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Republican party, while people want the deficit under control, I think

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Taylor is right in terms of saying the Republicans have pushed the

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issue here and gotten some deficit reduction, they don't want to cut

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Medicare and social securities, they don't want to push Medicade,

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which is a poor people's benefit in most situation, they don't want to

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see benefit cuts. The privatisation bill of Medicare

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will be an albatross around every Republican's neck when they run in

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the fall. Some of the Republican's numbers, in Florida they are in the

:11:35.:11:40.

20s, and Wisconsin is losing recall elections, and that could be

:11:40.:11:44.

Democratic Senate in a few weeks. Those are not good things for

:11:44.:11:47.

Republicans running locally, people remember that stuff. Even though it

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is probably not fair, it is only 87 people in the TEA Party in Congress,

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that is where people will get the publicity, and that is the

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Republican brand, that is not good for the party. A last thought,

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these will be hard economic times in the next year, everyone has

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agreed on that. What happened on Wall Street bear that is out, won't

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people possibly rally behind this President given the alternatives?

:12:14.:12:16.

think it will depend what happens with the economy between now and

:12:16.:12:20.

the election. If the economy make as strong rebound, it is not where

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the economy starts before the election, but how it changes. Is it

:12:24.:12:28.

really getting better substantially or getting worse f it starts to get

:12:28.:12:32.

better before the election people will rally around the President, if

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not they will be looking for an alternative. It is up to the

:12:36.:12:39.

Republicans to say the President hasn't got it done in the last

:12:39.:12:43.

three years of the term with the economy, we will take a turn, and

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if we don't get it done we will get fired too. That will be a strong

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argument for the Republican Cannes if they can present a credible

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candidate that can make it. Thank you very much. It is not just

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the United States that can turn an economic crisis into drama, Europe

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can too. Spain's Prime Minister delayed his holiday plans today,

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because he needed to check on further problems with the euro. The

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eurozone's inability to fix itself has prompted talks among

:13:11.:13:14.

Conservatives of bringing powers back from Brussels, and a two-speed

:13:14.:13:20.

Europe, with the UK in the slow lane.

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Place that still echos with the battles of the Conservatives'

:13:24.:13:29.

political past. Don't bind my hands, when I am negotiating on behalf of

:13:29.:13:34.

the British nation. The pro- Europeans have definitely won the

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territorial dispute, the former Conservative Central Office is now

:13:36.:13:40.

the EU's London home. But the ideolgical struggle seems to be

:13:40.:13:45.

going the other way. With some reading in the current upheels in

:13:45.:13:51.

the single currency, a chance to - upheavals in the single currency, a

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chase to push further away, you should never waste a good crisis.

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With the new intake of Conservative MPs, this is an historic chance to

:14:01.:14:06.

get real change in Europe. Unlike their predecessors, they don't

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carry the battle scars of all the euro disputes carried out in the

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building behind me. For them this is chance to discuss and solve an

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issue that has been poisonous for a generation. The new intake in the

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field sense something is wrong in Europe, that we need to see reform.

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But, they do not want to withdraw all together. They want to find a

:14:32.:14:35.

third way, between withdrawal and the status quo.

:14:35.:14:40.

When David Cameron goes to Brussels, he knows that behind him the

:14:40.:14:44.

Conservative Party is more united than ever on Europe. But, they are

:14:44.:14:50.

united in a desire for change. George Eustice, used to be David

:14:50.:14:54.

Cameron's press secretary, he's now a Conservative MP. When parliament

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returns in the autumn, he's form Agnew group of MPs, trying to make

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sure that they get the change that he says we need. The Conservative

:15:04.:15:07.

Party is unanimous on this, in temples want to go stay in the

:15:07.:15:10.

European Union, but to fundamentally change the way it

:15:10.:15:14.

operates. I think that applies also to our Prime Minister. What we're

:15:14.:15:18.

trying to do with the group we are forming, is to identify where the

:15:18.:15:22.

centre of gravity is of the Conservative Party, to press for

:15:22.:15:24.

real radical, genuine reform of the European Union.

:15:24.:15:30.

So, where might the reforms start? High up on the new group's target

:15:30.:15:34.

list are employment and social law, financial services regulation, and

:15:34.:15:38.

justice and home affairs law. These could be relatively easy wins, but,

:15:38.:15:43.

there would be much more resistance in Europe, to major institutional

:15:43.:15:50.

reform. No-one wants to revisit the whole institution issue. Reform of

:15:50.:15:53.

the Common Agricultural Policy and common fisheries policy, has

:15:53.:15:56.

frustrated a whole generation of British politicians. In Europe,

:15:56.:16:01.

among the leaders at least, there seems to be an impetus going in the

:16:01.:16:05.

other direction. Politicians like Nicolas Sarkozy, pressing for more

:16:05.:16:08.

integration, particularly tax and spending harmonisation for those

:16:08.:16:13.

countries in the euro. If the rest of Europe decides to go ahead and

:16:13.:16:19.

create a fiscal union, eventually they will have to incorporate those

:16:19.:16:23.

changes into the treaty, and have our consent. That gives us an

:16:23.:16:28.

incredibly strong hand and powerful bargaining position. In order to

:16:28.:16:33.

make good on, that we have to have a sense of ambition on it, we can't

:16:33.:16:39.

see this as subsidiarity, or renegotiating the 48-hour aspects

:16:39.:16:42.

of the Social Chapter, we need sensible ambition, and a good team

:16:42.:16:45.

of diplomats in Brussels who understand what a victory looks

:16:45.:16:50.

like, and a clear shopping list of all the areas of public policy

:16:50.:16:54.

where we think we are better off running ourselves than having this

:16:54.:16:58.

country governed by Brussels. The omens for those Conservatives

:16:58.:17:03.

who want to reform Europe couldn't be better. It is clear things will

:17:03.:17:06.

change as a result of the eurozone crisis the status quo, as they say,

:17:06.:17:10.

is not an option. And the Conservative Party is more united

:17:10.:17:17.

on Europe than it has perhaps ever been. But, and it is a fairly

:17:17.:17:20.

sizeable but, at this auspicious movement in history they find

:17:20.:17:23.

themselves in coalition with the Liberal Democrats, traditionally

:17:23.:17:27.

the most Euro-enthusiastic party in British politics. The Liberal

:17:27.:17:30.

Democrats also believe in devolution, one of the things we

:17:30.:17:34.

are arguing is not outright hostility to the European Union,

:17:34.:17:37.

but we are arguing effectively for powers to be transferred back to a

:17:37.:17:40.

national level. You think that is entirely consistent with a party

:17:40.:17:44.

like the Liberal Democrats, who believe, let's face it, in localism,

:17:44.:17:49.

and devolved powers. The Conservatives and the European

:17:49.:17:53.

projects, have both moved a long way, since the big Tory bust-ups of

:17:53.:17:57.

the past. A more united and clear Conservative backbench voice on the

:17:58.:18:01.

issue, though, promises to put pressure on the current Prime

:18:01.:18:06.

Minister. I'm joined now by the Conservative

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MP, John Redwood and Lib Dem MEP, Boles. How quickly - Sharon Bowles,

:18:12.:18:17.

how quickly could you start doing this? I think it has to be done

:18:17.:18:20.

very quickly, because the agenda of the European Union demands it. It

:18:20.:18:23.

is not a question of whether Britain wants a two-speed Europe or

:18:23.:18:27.

not, we know the group of Euroland countries now feel they need to

:18:27.:18:31.

make very rapid advances to a very strong central economic system.

:18:31.:18:34.

think they are probably right in that from their point of view?

:18:34.:18:37.

don't think it will work for all the mess, I would advise them to

:18:37.:18:41.

have viewer members, but they have to try something because their

:18:41.:18:44.

currency is besieged and under enormous pressure, I fear it will

:18:44.:18:47.

do huge economic damage, I wouldn't want Britain to stand in their way,

:18:48.:18:52.

if they think they can make a real go of it. It is an opportunity for

:18:52.:18:55.

you to renegotiate some of the things David was saying in the

:18:55.:18:59.

report? I'm not saying it is an opportunity, I'm saying the Euro-

:18:59.:19:02.

crisis is so graves and the impact upon jobs and prosperity in western

:19:02.:19:06.

Europe, as we can see, is becoming so serious, I think George Osborne

:19:06.:19:10.

is right, Britain shouldn't stand in the way of these countries

:19:10.:19:13.

trying to mend it, even though I think the remedy may not work. But

:19:13.:19:17.

that requires them to say to Britain, surely, you are not going

:19:17.:19:21.

to be part of this. If they really seriously wanted Britain's debts

:19:21.:19:25.

and Britain's banks in the system as well. I can promise you the

:19:25.:19:29.

markets would destroy it overnight. What do you make of it, would it

:19:29.:19:35.

breach the coalition agreement? don't see that it would do that.

:19:35.:19:39.

This was not something that was actually contenaced in the

:19:39.:19:42.

coalition agreement. You would be fine with t you could stay in

:19:42.:19:47.

Government with party that wants to renegotiate? The eurozone is

:19:47.:19:50.

obviously going to go closer together, that is an inevitable

:19:50.:19:56.

consequence. Some people would say it is inevitable from the start and

:19:56.:20:00.

many wanted it. It is obviously a good thing for the UK if the

:20:00.:20:04.

eurozone gets its act together, because if there is chaos there,

:20:04.:20:10.

the contamination on to our economy is huge. But I think one has to

:20:10.:20:15.

handle with care any idea of saying well we're not going to stand in

:20:15.:20:21.

your way, but we will put a price upon it. You will be outside the

:20:21.:20:25.

logic? But there will be many other countries outside as well, all

:20:25.:20:29.

those who have to join, it will be harder to join the eurozone when it

:20:29.:20:33.

is a fiscal union, many things, like the single market, still have

:20:33.:20:37.

to be done across the 27. You are in favour, as we heart, George

:20:37.:20:40.

Eustice, of devolution, localism, what about a bit of devolution in

:20:40.:20:44.

the EU towards Britain, that would be the argument? I think it would

:20:44.:20:47.

be very dangerous if we tried to cherry-pick, then I think we will

:20:47.:20:51.

soon be put in dunce's corner and ignored again. We have had enough

:20:51.:20:55.

of that following on from the financial crisis. What would be top

:20:55.:21:03.

of the things that you would be looking at, and there? I have a

:21:03.:21:06.

modest proposal, there is danger in cherry-picking item, we might not

:21:06.:21:11.

choose enough or be granted enough. I wouldn't want to accept a huge

:21:11.:21:15.

new set of restrictions on Britain for one or two items to come back.

:21:15.:21:19.

My modest proposal is a deal, you Europe need our agreement to do all

:21:19.:21:22.

the things you think you need to centralise. We promise to giveaway

:21:23.:21:27.

our right to stop you on anything that you want to do, if you, in

:21:27.:21:31.

turn, giveaway your right to insist we do anything that you choose to

:21:31.:21:36.

do. We will choose what we want to do, we will be at the table.

:21:36.:21:43.

will be move the table, you would be out of the room? We would

:21:43.:21:48.

discuss each law in good faith f we like it we do it, if not we don't

:21:48.:21:55.

do it. What is wrong with that? don't see how we would have any

:21:55.:21:59.

allies forming any defences of British positions. Dealing with

:21:59.:22:03.

financial services. You just have to veto it? I don't think you would

:22:03.:22:07.

be given a veto on take it or leave it. And where do you think

:22:07.:22:10.

Britain's place in the international scene is, it will be

:22:10.:22:13.

much, much more through Europe. That is the way we have to

:22:13.:22:15.

negotiate. Isn't the fundamental problem with the Liberal Democrats

:22:15.:22:18.

is you have lost the argument and the British people on the argument,

:22:18.:22:21.

it is not just Britain, where there is growing Euro-scepticism, it is

:22:21.:22:25.

all over Europe, including in Germany. So you are simply on the

:22:25.:22:29.

wrong side of history on this? have to separate out the European

:22:29.:22:34.

Union and the single market, from feelings about the euro. They are

:22:34.:22:38.

quite given. And I think if many people recognised the problems that

:22:38.:22:43.

we would have, with a withdrawal or a partial withdrawal, from the EU,

:22:43.:22:48.

what wo that do for the inward - would that do for the inward

:22:48.:22:51.

investment. They would seeking to, and all foreign investment would go

:22:51.:22:56.

into the core of the eurozone and we would be on the peripheral.

:22:56.:23:01.

know that is not true, Britain is not within the principal club in

:23:01.:23:06.

Europe, the euro, the biggest driver of finance, thank goodness

:23:06.:23:09.

we are not. Our gift is staying out of it, and we would have destroyed

:23:09.:23:12.

it because of the different type of economy and the big debts we have

:23:12.:23:15.

got. We know we can get inward investment and trade with Europe

:23:15.:23:19.

without being part of the euro. What Euro-sceptics wish to say is

:23:19.:23:21.

we don't have to have all the common laws and all the central

:23:22.:23:26.

Government they are imposing other areas either in order to be able to

:23:26.:23:31.

trade very successful with them. We want a looser relationship. If that

:23:31.:23:34.

looser relationship was put to a vote now, that side would win?

:23:34.:23:39.

People always want to vote for cherry-picking, they want to vote

:23:39.:23:44.

for free beer and longer cigarettes. I do not believe this is something

:23:44.:23:47.

that would be on offer and be available. Attempting to negotiate

:23:47.:23:51.

it would do us a great deal of harm, that we would not manage to achieve

:23:51.:23:56.

it, and there would be huge retaliation against us on a whole

:23:56.:24:01.

variety of legislation that was important to the EU. Huge

:24:01.:24:04.

retaliation against us? I don't agree with T the EU has a good deal

:24:04.:24:09.

out of Britain, they sell us many more fiscal goods than we sell them.

:24:09.:24:13.

They would want to carry on trading with us, there are international

:24:13.:24:18.

rules requiring them to do so on fair basis. They get a large

:24:18.:24:23.

contribution of cash out of us, and that has gone up. You think we get

:24:23.:24:28.

a lot of trade out of it? I don't agree, the trade makes mutual sense

:24:28.:24:32.

to trade with each other and international agreement now. When

:24:32.:24:38.

we first joined the European Union, it was tarrif based and it helped a

:24:38.:24:42.

bit. But the tarrifs have surpassed with the European Union does. We

:24:43.:24:46.

can be relaxed, I would like to do it in a friendly spirit, I want to

:24:46.:24:50.

stay friends, and trade with them, and some common law that makes

:24:50.:24:53.

sense. But British people feel it is too intrusive and they don't

:24:53.:24:56.

want to end up bossed around and sent big bills for a scheme that

:24:56.:25:02.

seems to be in a lot of trouble. While the world's attention has

:25:02.:25:06.

been diverted by the continuing economic malaise, and other matters,

:25:06.:25:11.

the regime of Bashar al-Assad has slowly been tightening its grip in

:25:11.:25:20.

Syria. As Ramadan begins, a Al- Assad's soldier's militia seems to

:25:20.:25:23.

have killed 140 people, even in the town of Hama, even countries like

:25:23.:25:27.

chine fla and Russia are sounding concerns, but there is no appetite

:25:27.:25:32.

for military intervention. There is a question of whether a coherent

:25:32.:25:35.

policy in Syria is stop the change of regime.

:25:35.:25:43.

It may be a month of fasting and prayer across the Muslim word. But

:25:43.:25:46.

President Assad isn't allowing subjects time for contemplation.

:25:46.:25:50.

The death toll over the last three days is thought to be more than 130.

:25:50.:25:55.

In the city of Hama and elsewhere, protestors have been targeted by

:25:55.:26:00.

Government snipers and tank shells. Today, amateur footage, that can't

:26:00.:26:03.

be verified, apparently shows more military vehicles approaching the

:26:03.:26:13.
:26:13.:26:16.

town. And protestors burying their dead. They killed with the bombing

:26:16.:26:22.

and the attacks on hospitals. One of them had a sniper shot, and the

:26:22.:26:26.

other he was killed by a bomb. do you think the Government is

:26:26.:26:34.

doing this to you? I think because we are protesting, we are

:26:34.:26:39.

embarrassing them when we protest in huge numbers. It is like a

:26:39.:26:43.

punishment. How do you think can all end, do you think that

:26:43.:26:48.

President Assad can stay in power? No, no, not any more.

:26:48.:26:52.

It is a remarkable testament to the tenacity and bravery of the

:26:52.:26:57.

opposition, that so many ordinary Syrians are still willing, after

:26:57.:27:01.

1700 have already died in the last few months, to risk their lives by

:27:01.:27:05.

going out, unarmed, on to the streets. If anything, the mood in

:27:05.:27:09.

Hama and other cities, is now hardening, with widespread refusal

:27:09.:27:13.

to consider any compromise with the regime. And yet, the opposition are

:27:13.:27:19.

still a long way from victory. One reason, among many, is they have no

:27:19.:27:23.

clear national structure, or leadership. Not surprising in state

:27:23.:27:27.

where independent organisations have been banned for decades.

:27:27.:27:31.

The headquarters of one of Syria's main opposition groups s above a

:27:31.:27:38.

tiling store, in an outer London suburb. I'm going to visit a senior

:27:38.:27:43.

figure in the Muslim Brotherhood. Its exiled members watching today's

:27:43.:27:47.

events back home, have escaped the ruthless oppression of the movement

:27:47.:27:49.

inside Siria. TRANSLATION: The only solution, or

:27:49.:27:54.

way out in Syria, is for this regime to leave power. To give it

:27:54.:27:58.

up. Also there should be a clear and determined international

:27:58.:28:03.

position, which will ensure that this current political regime is

:28:03.:28:08.

isolated. The Syrian people will then be perfectly able to provide

:28:08.:28:15.

an alternative Government. But no- one knows what kind of alternative

:28:15.:28:18.

Government the protestors would provide. The opposition includes

:28:18.:28:25.

Islamists and liberals, leftists and nationalists. And the picture

:28:25.:28:30.

is further complicated by Syria's sectarian divide. About 85% are

:28:30.:28:35.

Sunni Muslim, about 10%, including much of the ruling elite, belong to

:28:35.:28:43.

the Alawite sect. And about 5% are Christians. The regime's played

:28:43.:28:47.

down those divisions. Claiming that it treats all citizens equally. And

:28:48.:28:52.

some, particularly in the minority communities, are now afraid,

:28:52.:28:57.

rightly or wrongly, that they might fare worse under a more democratic

:28:57.:29:06.

Government. In London, not in dam mass cushion there is a television

:29:06.:29:12.

station where Syrians can discuss such issues. This station claims to

:29:12.:29:17.

reach an audience of three million in Syria by satellite. It is openly

:29:17.:29:21.

anti-regime, even giving advice on forms of civil disobedience, but it

:29:21.:29:24.

is honest about divisions within the opposition. If you asked the

:29:24.:29:27.

opposition in public, are you in favour of talks with the regime,

:29:27.:29:32.

they will say no, because they know the mood on the street in Syria is

:29:32.:29:37.

very much anti- holding any talks or dialogue with the Government.

:29:37.:29:44.

However, within closed circle, many are willing, and I would say many,

:29:45.:29:48.

especially those who are independent, who don't have a

:29:48.:29:52.

political party to be answerable to, many of these people are willing to

:29:52.:29:55.

enter into talks with the Government, they believe they can

:29:55.:29:59.

get a political advantage out of this, and maybe believe out of good

:29:59.:30:04.

intention that is they can save the country from spiralling into an

:30:04.:30:08.

armed conflict. After the continued bloodshed of the last month,

:30:08.:30:12.

America's attitude to President Assad has hardened. And today, even

:30:12.:30:16.

Russia, a long time ally of the regime, indicated it wouldn't

:30:16.:30:21.

oppose a UN resolution condemning the crackdown. But the

:30:21.:30:24.

international reaction is still too muted to have much effect on the

:30:24.:30:29.

regime. Some believe a spiral of further violence.

:30:29.:30:35.

State TV is now broadcasting pictures, it claims, show armed

:30:36.:30:39.

protestors. The opposition says such cases are almost unknown.

:30:39.:30:47.

According to some sources, revenge attacks on Government agencies are

:30:47.:30:51.

increasing. There are signs of civil war happening in Syria are

:30:51.:30:56.

showing, it is a reality. There is footage of armed men in Hama,

:30:56.:31:00.

unverified, but still an indication perhaps that people in Hama are so

:31:00.:31:03.

desperate at the moment they are willing to raise arms, and we are

:31:03.:31:09.

talking about Kalashnikovs, rifles, where as the regime has tanks and

:31:09.:31:13.

artillery. It is still possible, many believe,

:31:13.:31:17.

that peaceful resistance in Syria, will eventually topple the regime.

:31:17.:31:21.

But the tipping point is not yet in sight.

:31:21.:31:26.

As we mentioned the UN Security Council has been meeting tonight in

:31:26.:31:29.

an emergency session on Syria. We are joined live from New York. What

:31:29.:31:33.

has bank happening there? We are getting positive noises from the

:31:33.:31:37.

Security Council, they say that they are nearing agreement on the

:31:37.:31:41.

content of some form of statement, after about 24 hours of

:31:41.:31:43.

negotiations. This is based on a British resolution that has been

:31:43.:31:48.

circulating for several months now, which, in essence, condemns the

:31:48.:31:53.

violence in Syria, demands it stops, says that Syria should get serious

:31:53.:31:57.

about political reform. Makes no mention of sanctions or other

:31:57.:32:01.

reform, or military intervention. Despite that for the last couple of

:32:01.:32:04.

months the Europeans have faced stiff opposition from five members

:32:04.:32:07.

of the council, because they feel any resolution or statement could

:32:07.:32:12.

be the first step in the slippery slope of some kind of Libya-style

:32:12.:32:17.

intervention. But the mood here has changed since the violence in Hama

:32:17.:32:20.

at the weekend. One Security Council diplomat said to me there

:32:20.:32:24.

is less tension around the table, we all seem to be speaking the same

:32:24.:32:30.

language to a degree. That seems to include the vote toeholder, Russia

:32:30.:32:36.

and China, they appear to be - veto holder, Russia and China. They

:32:36.:32:39.

appear to be ready to take steps. It will be whether it is a less

:32:39.:32:43.

binding statement or one that will become law. We will find out that

:32:43.:32:48.

tomorrow. A disturbing investigation into

:32:48.:32:52.

cervical cancer tests on young women, the rules were changed in

:32:52.:32:56.

200, moons there is no longer routine screening for women under

:32:56.:33:00.

25. The result has been a chaotic situation where many young women's

:33:00.:33:07.

tests are left unprocessed. Many GPs are unceasingly alarmed,

:33:07.:33:10.

especially as incidences of cervical cancer in women in their

:33:11.:33:18.

late 20 are on the rise. It has never been an enticing

:33:18.:33:22.

prospect, but women have put up with having a smear test, because

:33:22.:33:28.

it is the only way to detect the early signs of cervical cancer.

:33:28.:33:35.

When Jade Goody was diagnosed with the disease, in the full glare of

:33:35.:33:41.

reality TV, it was better than any advertising campaign could have

:33:41.:33:44.

hoped for. She was 27, soon after there was a sharp increase in the

:33:44.:33:48.

number of women going for smear tests. Those under 25 and inspired

:33:48.:33:53.

by Goody were told they were too young for a test. Women used to be

:33:53.:33:59.

routinely screened by the age of 20, in 2003 the Government raised the

:33:59.:34:03.

age to 25, because they said early testing might do more harm than

:34:03.:34:07.

good. We have been approached by GPs who say what this actually

:34:07.:34:11.

means is tests they are carrying out on women under 25, that they

:34:11.:34:16.

think are necessary, are being rejected, in some cases they are

:34:16.:34:21.

destroyed by the labs, just because they fall outside the screening

:34:21.:34:24.

guidelines. The freedom of information request by Newsnight,

:34:24.:34:28.

found hundreds of young women's samples were being rejected. There

:34:28.:34:32.

are 111 labs in England that process smear test, we asked each

:34:32.:34:37.

one what they did with samples from women under 25. 99 of those labs

:34:37.:34:42.

actually responded and told us in total more than 700 women's smear

:34:42.:34:45.

tests were rejected last year on the grounds of age. But it really

:34:45.:34:49.

just seems to depend on where you live. There is this lab here in

:34:49.:34:53.

Manchester that rejected 51 sample, then there is another one in

:34:53.:34:56.

Gateshead that say the strictly speaking it doesn't have to process

:34:56.:35:00.

them, but it does because it is the right thing to do, they said. It

:35:00.:35:04.

all seems to be a bit of a postcode lottery, that means there are

:35:04.:35:08.

hundreds of young women going in for these invasive test that is

:35:08.:35:13.

aren't even going to be looked at. Most cases of cervical cancer is

:35:13.:35:20.

linked to the human papillomavirus virus, that is about unprotected

:35:20.:35:27.

sex, and smoking. GPs say they know who should and shouldn't be tested,

:35:27.:35:32.

they are angry that their clinical acumen is being ignored. Some

:35:32.:35:35.

trusts process them, others won't, they have "zero tolerance", and

:35:35.:35:41.

they are sending them back, what do you think of these? I think if a GP

:35:41.:35:45.

has made a clinical decision to do a smear, that smear should be

:35:45.:35:48.

processed. The decision not to process it should not be made by

:35:48.:35:53.

lab with no details about why that smear is being done. I have known a

:35:53.:35:59.

young women at age 22 die of cervical cancer. Why I work women

:35:59.:36:03.

have sex from an early age, sometimes as young as 13 or 14, it

:36:04.:36:07.

is a brave thing for a young women to present for a smear. Doing a

:36:07.:36:11.

smear and then getting it rejected by a lab, is absolutely horrifying,

:36:11.:36:16.

because it, in a sense, undermines me as the GP, but more so, it

:36:16.:36:20.

undermines the patient who has presented for care.

:36:20.:36:24.

Earlier this year, the Department of Health issued new guidelines,

:36:24.:36:28.

telling labs to take a "zero tolerance" approach to any samples

:36:28.:36:31.

from women under 25. The guidelines clearly are that women under 25

:36:32.:36:35.

shouldn't be screened. The tests have already been done, would it

:36:35.:36:39.

not be better to process the one that is have been done?

:36:39.:36:42.

ultimate answer is it should not have been taken in the first place.

:36:42.:36:47.

In women aged 20-25, one in three will have an abnormal test result,

:36:47.:36:51.

it doesn't mean there is an increased risk of cervical cancer,

:36:51.:36:55.

it means there are transient abnormalities that in most cases

:36:55.:37:00.

would have gone way on their own. But having an abnormal test is

:37:00.:37:03.

anxiety-provoking, very upsetting, and likely to lead on to further

:37:03.:37:07.

investigation and treatment. It is the treatment that can have the

:37:07.:37:12.

future effect on pregnancy outcome. Actually, these women are not being

:37:12.:37:20.

harmed, and in fact they are being benefited by not having their

:37:20.:37:28.

cervical cytoologist test reported. That guideline is not popular with

:37:28.:37:33.

everyone. That is not sensible, it is crazy, companies are well

:37:33.:37:39.

trained doctors, in most practices - GPs are well-trained doctors, in

:37:39.:37:44.

most practices it is a specialist in gynaecology, they can examine

:37:45.:37:49.

the patient and appropriate tests taken, a swab for infection or a

:37:49.:37:52.

smear, as that patient is at more risk of developing a cancer, but to

:37:52.:37:57.

send straight to a gynaecology department is a waste of man power,

:37:57.:38:07.
:38:07.:38:09.

time, and money, and not sensible. Some campaigners have been

:38:09.:38:13.

campaigning since the age was raised to 25? The feeling is we

:38:13.:38:17.

should offer smears to the age of 20, the British Medical Association

:38:18.:38:22.

thinks the same, they voted 3-1 in favour last year that we should do

:38:22.:38:28.

cervical veening from 20. We don't want to see young women dying.

:38:28.:38:32.

Cervical cancer is a disease that is totally preventable, and the

:38:32.:38:36.

skrooning process is not to find cancer but - screening process is

:38:36.:38:40.

not to find cancer but cells that will turn to cancer later. That is

:38:40.:38:46.

why some labs are ignoring the guidelines. At St Thomas's Hospital

:38:46.:38:52.

in London they accept tests from under 25s because they want to

:38:52.:38:56.

detect the precancerous stage? Women up to 25 are very frightened

:38:56.:39:01.

to find they have cancer, however early. It is not common to get

:39:01.:39:06.

cervical cancer aged 25-29, but the numbers have, in fact, gone up,

:39:06.:39:14.

since 2003. In my view, it is better to treat it when it is CIN3,

:39:14.:39:18.

than when it has already become invasive. That is what cervical

:39:18.:39:23.

screening is all about. Labs say they have written to doctors when

:39:23.:39:28.

they reject a test. But it is not clear if the message gets back to

:39:28.:39:31.

patients. Many will be left wondering why bother having a smear

:39:31.:39:36.

test if it won't be processed. The NHS screening programme has told us

:39:36.:39:40.

it is an evolving system and they hoped the number of unprocessed

:39:40.:39:45.

smear also go down next year, as GPs become more aware of the

:39:45.:39:47.

guidelines. Admiral Mike Mullen, America's top

:39:47.:39:51.

military officer, is on his way back to Washington, after a

:39:51.:39:54.

farewell visit to troops on the battlefields of Afghanistan and

:39:54.:39:58.

Iraq. The outgoing chairman of the joint Chief-of-Staff, told soldiers

:39:58.:40:01.

in Afghanistan that America is winning the war, but it was now

:40:01.:40:04.

time to hand over the fighting to the Afghans. Lyse Doucet was

:40:04.:40:08.

travelling with the Admiral and some of his famous friends on his

:40:08.:40:13.

farewell tour. Admiral Mike Mullen knows the drill. He's made this

:40:13.:40:18.

trip so many times. But every detail is sorted in his world. Even

:40:18.:40:21.

where he stands when he takes the first questions from the small

:40:21.:40:26.

group of journalists travelling with him. I have tried to go during

:40:26.:40:30.

the summers, because it is brutally hot. The engines are already

:40:30.:40:33.

revving. We are heading on to the plane now, heading out to the

:40:33.:40:37.

region again, it is a really tense time, a worrying time, both for

:40:37.:40:42.

Afghans and their supporters what are your thoughts? I get that it is

:40:42.:40:48.

tense and it is worrying, I can tell you this has been a tense

:40:48.:40:53.

engagement and a worrying campaign for years. Have a nice flight?

:40:53.:41:01.

Thanks. It is going to be a long flight.

:41:01.:41:07.

And we are flying cargo. There aren't many direct flights between

:41:07.:41:10.

Washington DC and Kandahar in Afghanistan, if you want to go this

:41:10.:41:15.

is how you have to do it, with the US military. There are not many

:41:15.:41:19.

luxuries on the military transport plane, but they do have the flat

:41:19.:41:23.

bed seats, a few hours sleep on the way. We need t you barely touch

:41:23.:41:29.

ground in Kandahar and we are on the road. First stop, what they

:41:29.:41:35.

call All Hands Call. The 64-year- old Admiral likes to share his

:41:35.:41:38.

experience with the young troops. Many of you succeeded that somebody

:41:38.:41:43.

made a difference in your life. The only thing I ask when I talk to an

:41:43.:41:48.

audience like this is you figure out way to make a difference in

:41:48.:41:51.

somebody else's life. And more importantly, hear from them. This

:41:51.:41:55.

is said to be the bit of the job the Admiral loves, meeting the

:41:55.:41:58.

soldiers on the frontline, and hearing their stories. Handing out

:41:58.:42:03.

coins, or medals is a military tradition. Morale is high in these

:42:03.:42:07.

troops, some aren't clear why they are here. What is the official

:42:07.:42:13.

answer for why we are here still, that you would say to an Afghan who

:42:13.:42:17.

says you got Osama Bin Laden, why are you still here. There is a lot

:42:17.:42:20.

more to Osama Bin Laden, Al-Qaeda is not dead, they are still

:42:20.:42:23.

threatening us, internationally they are still coming after us.

:42:23.:42:28.

They still would choose to kill as many Americans as they possibly

:42:28.:42:31.

comfortable while they are down they are a long way from being out.

:42:32.:42:37.

There is still plenty of work to do. Back to the tarmac.

:42:37.:42:42.

Admiral Mullen has some help on the trip to cheer up the troops.

:42:42.:42:49.

Everyone wants their picture taken. With basketball giant Karl Malone,

:42:49.:42:54.

magician, David Blaine, and the ever-smiling comedian, Jon Stewart.

:42:54.:42:59.

None of these stars have been to Afghanistan before. Admiral Mullen

:42:59.:43:03.

is taking them across the southern provinces that have seen the worst

:43:03.:43:07.

fighting in this war. Our next stop, Mel mand. All this is a novelty for

:43:07.:43:11.

them. But it is their way of showing appreciation for what the

:43:11.:43:15.

troops do every day. The main reason for coming on the trip

:43:15.:43:19.

honestly was to be able to let them know that we are thinking about

:43:19.:43:26.

them Stateside. It is a long war, it is a tough war, and they have

:43:26.:43:29.

bourne the burden of this overwhelmingly, the military

:43:29.:43:33.

families, and just to let them know people are thinking about them.

:43:33.:43:36.

When you go back to the television studio, what will you tell the

:43:36.:43:42.

world about this? This is for me and between me and then. Admiral

:43:42.:43:45.

Mullen's message on this trip is security is much better, but the

:43:45.:43:49.

Taliban are still able to carry out major takes and assassinations. The

:43:50.:43:54.

US sent in tens of thousands of extra troops last year, to try to

:43:54.:43:59.

turn the tide. But this war has gone on for a decade now. This is

:43:59.:44:05.

about the Afghan people, and this is also about putting the Afghan

:44:05.:44:11.

security forces in charge of their own destiny. Over the next few

:44:11.:44:15.

months, some of the US soldiers here could be going home, as part

:44:15.:44:19.

of President Obama's exit plan, but by 2014, the Afghans are meant to

:44:19.:44:23.

be fully in charge. The big question is, will they be

:44:23.:44:33.
:44:33.:44:34.

ready? These Afghans say they will be.

:44:34.:44:37.

They proudly sing that they are soldiers and they defend their

:44:37.:44:42.

country like lions. There is concern there won't be enough well-

:44:42.:44:46.

trained troops and police to take on a determined enemy like the

:44:46.:44:53.

Taliban. Colonel Aziz heads the training at this base. He says they

:44:53.:44:58.

are Afghan too they can defend their country from any threat. But

:44:58.:45:02.

most Afghans hoped that by now they wouldn't be preparing for war. They

:45:02.:45:07.

would be living in peace. The US and other NATO armies had big

:45:07.:45:12.

dreams. Now there is not much time left. Before these American

:45:12.:45:17.

soldiers will be playing ball back home, hoping they did some good

:45:17.:45:21.

here. Why do you think you are doing something for America here?

:45:21.:45:25.

Not only for America, just, mostly for the civilians of Afghanistan,

:45:25.:45:32.

to better the place. This is a war worth fighting? Yes mam, I do think

:45:32.:45:37.

it is, yes mam. Admiral Mullen knows this is likely

:45:37.:45:41.

to be the last time he's out here with his troops, he know he leaves

:45:41.:45:45.

behind a country beset by major problems, bad Government, big

:45:45.:45:50.

corruption. But it is up to Afghans to sort them. He feels he fought

:45:50.:45:55.

the good fight, even if he knows it's not over.

:45:56.:46:05.
:46:06.:46:16.

Local health trusts and hospitals will be allowed to develop or buy

:46:16.:46:19.

smaller systems. Miliband plan to curb union hold over Labour Party,

:46:19.:46:22.

that will be an interesting Labour Party Conference. The eurozone

:46:22.:46:27.

problems and the US problems too. The FT has Spain and Italy rushing

:46:27.:46:34.

to stem bond crisis debt costs hit highs for the two countries. The

:46:34.:46:37.

Mail has thousands of bureaucrats recruited since the election,

:46:37.:46:41.

despite Cameron's pledge. That's all from tonight, we're back

:46:41.:46:51.
:46:51.:47:16.

Good evening, a misty and muggy night. A few thunderstorms in

:47:16.:47:19.

eastern England. Most start Wednesday, dry, fairly cloudy,

:47:19.:47:22.

sunny spells developing. Temperatures rising through the day.

:47:22.:47:27.

A humid day in store, setting us some thunderstorms for eastern

:47:27.:47:31.

parts. North West England and the East Midlands, largely dry and

:47:31.:47:37.

sunny. From the north-east, down to the London area, anyone is at risk

:47:37.:47:43.

from a torrential thunderstorm during the afternoon. Mostly dry on

:47:43.:47:46.

the coast, but sunshine hazy through the afternoon through

:47:46.:47:50.

South-West England and Wales. Here temperatures into the low 20 still

:47:51.:47:54.

feeling humid, especially in those spells of hazy sunshine. Isolated

:47:54.:47:57.

light showers through the afternoon. Northern Ireland stays dry and

:47:57.:48:02.

bright, with some good spells of hazy sunshine. Across Scotland a

:48:02.:48:07.

generally dryer, brighter day than what we saw today, more in the east

:48:07.:48:11.

and it will feel warmer. But it is a changover from Wednesday to

:48:11.:48:14.

Thursday, contrast, temperatures will hold the same for northern

:48:14.:48:20.

areas, but there will be some heavy downpours develops, further south,

:48:20.:48:26.

temperatures take a huge drop, as we knee potentially torrential rain

:48:26.:48:31.

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