Browse content similar to 17/08/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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A year ago, the Government trumpetted plans for a | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
rehabilitation revolution, now David Cameron's praising judges for | :00:12. | :00:17. | |
handing down harsh sentences. But can the system cope with the sea | :00:17. | :00:23. | |
change. Newsnight has learned that one council is having to use the | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
Premier Inn hotel chain, to accommodate young offenders on | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
remand. I'm very much taken aback by this. I don't think the lawyers | :00:32. | :00:38. | |
or the community at large, when they learn that a local authority | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
takes into the care and custody young people that the next step for | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
that young person is say Premier Inn. I will ask the former Home | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
Secretary, Jack Straw, what he makes of all this. The Work and | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
Pensions minister says Britain is in the last chance saloon when it | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
comes to solving this social crisis. But unemployment has gone up today, | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
and stands at nearly 2.5 million. The Employment Minister is here to | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
answer criticisms that Britain is not working. | :01:05. | :01:11. | |
Also tonight, why was Gloucester a charming Cathedral City shaken by | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
the riots. I have travelled extensively and go to London a lot, | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
and feel more at threat in Gloucester than any other city in | :01:17. | :01:23. | |
the country. And is the best way for women to | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
get ahead, to lose weight and look sexy, a controversial new book | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
argues so-called erotic capital is an asset females should exploit. | :01:32. | :01:42. | |
:01:42. | :01:46. | ||
The author is here to argue her Good evening, as of tonight, 1,297 | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
riot-related cases have gone through the courts. And 65% of | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
those in the dock have been remanded in custody. But can the | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
prison system cope, and does the justice system, already under the | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
strain of 25% cuts, have the budget for this sudden spike in cases. It | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
was only a few months ago that the Justice Secretary, Ken Clarke, | :02:05. | :02:13. | |
hailed a new rehabilitation revolution, and as described | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
prisoners in outdated facilities. It turned out before the riots, one | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
local authority has had to warehouse at least one alleged | :02:21. | :02:28. | |
offender in a budget hotel chain. I think we are being too lenient. | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
It is perfectly reasonable for the courts to take the view that these | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
sentences should be at the tougher end of the spectrum. The mood is | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
clear, the public wants tough sentences for those involved in | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
last week's looting. So six months for stealing a bottle of water it | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
is. And from the Prime Minister, nothing but support for the courts. | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
I think it is right that we should allow the courts to make decisions | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
about sentencing. You weren't sitting in the court, I wasn't | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
sitting in the court, we didn't hear the evidence, they decided in | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
that court to send a tough sentence and message and it is very good | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
courts feel able to do. That what happened on the streets was | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
absolutely appalling behaviour, to send a very clear message that it | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
is wrong and won't be tolerated is what the criminal justice system | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
should be doing. How will this square with the Government's long- | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
term plans to cut the prison population, and the budgets much | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
courts and Legal Aid. Over the next four years the Ministry of Justice | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
needs to shed a quarter of its costs to meet Government spending | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
targets. What's more the Secretary of State for Justice is on record | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
as saying he doesn't think jail always works. This was the Justice | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
Secretary in a major speech last year on sentencing reform. Just | :03:45. | :03:51. | |
banging up more and more people for longer, without actively seeking | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
toe change them is, in my opinion, what would you expect of Vic | :03:56. | :04:03. | |
Toryian England. And it is time we dk Victorian England, and it is | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
time to focus on today's communities. Too often prison has | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
proved a costly and ineffectual approach that fails to turn | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
criminals into law-abiding citizens. It was an abrupt change in Tory | :04:16. | :04:22. | |
policy, rather than the prison works approach of the 1980s, the | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
new Justice Secretary actually wanted to cut prison numbers by | :04:27. | :04:33. | |
3,000. The approach is bourne out of philosophy but also cold hard | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
numbers. To keep a male in prison for a year, costs �40,000, sending | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
him there costs �30 though in court costs. Currently in England and | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
Wales there are 8 6,000 people detained at Her Majesty's pleasure, | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
just 2,000 short of operational capacity. So far there have been | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
1300 riot-related cases heard, two- thirds of the alleged offenders | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
have been remanded in custody. In Ealing, one of the centres of the | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
riots, the local Tory MP believes the Government may need to look | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
again at its budget cuts to justice. The Prime Minister made it very | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
clear in the House of Commons last week, when he was asked about this, | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
that it is for the judges to decide on sentences, if they decide to | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
send people to prison it is the Government's obligation to provide | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
prison places for people. How will the Government do that if it needs | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
to quarter the budget of the ministry? There are other things | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
being looked at, not just prison place, we are looking at things | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
like Legal Aid and all sorts of other things as well. Not just | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
prison places. My view is, if we need to keep for prison places we | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
need to do that. Today Newsnight has new evidence of the pressures | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
on the criminal justice system. We have learned that Richmond Council | :05:46. | :05:56. | |
:05:56. | :05:56. | ||
has used a west London branch of the Premer in Inn, hotel - the | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
Premier Inn hotel chain to house a prisoner on remand. The council | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
wouldn't confirm how long the youth stayed there. Wefrpb we asked the | :06:07. | :06:17. | |
:06:17. | :06:32. | ||
hotel were they aware of the The revelation has shocked a | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
leading criminal barrister. very much taken aback by this, I | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
don't think either lawyers or indeed the community at large, when | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
they learn that a local authority takes into the care and custody | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
young people, that the next step for that young person is say | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
Premier Inn, I'm surprised, I put it so far as being flabbergasted to | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
hear this. Both the Ministry for Justice and the department for | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
local communities say it is matter for the council. | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
Balancing the public mood for justice, as well as the budget, is | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
now the dilemma facing the coalition. But a prison reform | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
group says we should also be thinking about what works the | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
Particularly for short prison sentence, versus community | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
sentences, where there is fair comparison in terms of the type of | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
person that might be doing the sentence, and the type of offences | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
they have done, the reoffending rates are sharp, almost two-thirds | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
will go on to reoffend, half of that on community sentences | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
reoffend. But that's not what the public | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
wants for now. The last ten days have seen extraordinary shifts in | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
the demand for tough crime policies. Whether the Government can deliver | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
that long-term is a question no-one is answering at the moment. We | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
asked to speak to someone from the Ministry of Justice, but was told | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
nobody was available. Joining us now from Manchester is the former | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
Justice Secretary and Home Secretary, Jack Straw. First of all, | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
what's your reaction to the news that Richmond council used Premier | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
Inn, to house an alleged offender on remand. I find it extraordinary, | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
I'm not sure it is lawful. If an offender whether under 18 or over | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
18, is remanded in custody there are very strict rules about the | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
circumstances in which they are kept in a room from which they | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
can't take any escape, that is certainly not Premier Inn, so | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
Richmond Council have to do a great deal of explaining. Their silence | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
this evening, their refusal to offer any explanation of this | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
practice, underlines the fact that this is an indefensible practice | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
itself. Is there any situation that you can think that would make it a | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
justifiable decision? No, I have never heard of this, there are | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
circumstances in which someone may be remanded on bail, on conditions, | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
and for example an authority can't find a bail hostel so they put them | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
somewhere else, an equivalent. In that case they would obviously make | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
sure there was an arrangement made with the owners of that premises, | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
which in the case of the hotel hasn't happened. What do you make | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
of the fact that Premier Inn was completely ignorant of what's | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
happening? I share astonishment in this. Presumably, it would mean | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
that Premier Inn correction easily have put a guest in the next room? | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
Of course they comfortable the whole thing is bizarre as well as | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
extraordinary. Richmond Council, and by the way, a senior Liberal | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
Democrat minister is, Vince Cable, is a member of parliament for one | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
of the two Richmond constituent circumstance he too needs to | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
explain what on earth is going on. You talked about the fact you think | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
there are pretty strong rules in place, but the Ministry of Justice, | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
the Department of Local Government, it is not matter for them surely, | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
rather than a council to determine the rules. Is this not something | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
central Government should be very clear on? Of course, I was | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
reflecting when I heard that statement, the minister for justice | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
said this is something for the local authority. It isn't, there | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
are self-evidently in any civilised society, strict rules about whether, | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
particularly juveniles, should be sent into custody, and if they are, | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
the circumstances, the physical circumstances, the arrangement for | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
their supervision. By the way, I'm also very surprised that Richmond | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
Council apparently thought it was necessary to send this juvenile | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
into the Premier Inn, as an alternative to a proper, licensed, | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
secure establishment. Because in the last two or three years, the | :10:54. | :11:01. | |
number of places for under 18, under 18 prisoners in secure | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
establishments, that are being used, has dropped significantly. There | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
has been a great deal of slack in the system. At the moment | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
presumably there isn't slack in the criminal justice system per se, | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
what should be done about that? so much. That I was looking at the | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
Ministry of Justice website before I came out, they were boasting | :11:21. | :11:27. | |
about the fact they had 2,500 spare place, even up to what is called | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
the operational capacity, there is margin above that, because of the | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
building programme. That is the building programme that, frankly, I | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
got going, Ken Clarke has cancelled all of that programme that he can. | :11:38. | :11:44. | |
On this issue, Wii you started, the so-called rehabilitation revolution, | :11:44. | :11:52. | |
we are all in favour of improving rehabilitation of persistent | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
offenders, the glib statement about the prison reformers, comparing | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
community punishments and comparing the reoffending rate with those on | :12:01. | :12:08. | |
short-term sentences won't wash. It is baloney, 96% of those who go to | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
prison for a short-term sentence have been tried on a community | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
punishment and failed, and three quarters of them, have seven or | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
more sets of convictions. Now not only are we seeing at the moment | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
this spike, because all these cases are going through the courts. 5% | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
are on remand. Do you detect that is reflective of a mood in the | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
community which the Government has picked up on. A mood that people | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
are feeling themselves much tougher about this? Yes, look, prison is | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
the punishment of last resort. Where you have and have, as we had | :12:42. | :12:50. | |
a week ago, gangs taking the law into their own hands, becoming an | :12:50. | :12:58. | |
arky on the streets, and make - anarchy on the streets and the | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
state has to clamp down on that. That will cost money, not only for | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
all the people who may end up on jail, but all the appeals that may | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
be heard, how will that be paid, considering a 5% cut in the justice | :13:13. | :13:19. | |
system? - a 25% cut in the justice system? With great difficulty, and | :13:19. | :13:29. | |
the ministry's budget will bust. will bust? Yes. Over a year ago Ken | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
Clarke ludicrously volunteered much greater cuts in his budget that he | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
needed to. He was trying to show avenues very virile justice | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
minister. If you think it will bust, are you in favour, for example, of | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
judges handing out four-year sentences to two men for inciting a | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
riot that didn't take place, but inciting a riot on a social | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
network? In principle I'm in favour of that sentence. There have to be | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
tough sentence, I wasn't in court, that is the point the Prime | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
Minister made, I'm not going to judge the circumstances as if I had | :14:03. | :14:10. | |
been in court. I'm absolutely clear that people who xir, which is what | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
these - conspire, which is what these people sought to do, to | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
organise a riot, whether they do that by Facebook or out in the | :14:17. | :14:23. | |
street, must expect and deserve a very tough sentence. One of the | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
five principles of sentencing set out in the 2003 Criminal Justice | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
Act, as the chairman of the Magistrates' Association was | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
referring to today, is that of deterrent, you can't have this | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
anarchy, you have to deter people. But now there is a cost to that, | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
and the Government will be wholly failing in the first duty of any | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
Government, which is to keep the streets safe f it does not meet | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
these costs. Today's unemployment figures offer | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
little comfort to the Government in the wake of the riot, with a rise | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
of 38,000 in England and Wales in the three months to June, the | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
largest rise for more than two years. A figure the Chancellor | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
describes simply as "disappointing". The general secretary of the trade | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
The Female Eunuch son said the savage cuts have ended | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
opportunities in the public sector, and it is the private sector | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
struggling to withstand the economic downturn. With the | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
announcement of 11 more Enterprise Zones in England be the magic | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
bullet. Bradford Leeds, today's the small | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
rise in unemployment significants barely matters, the problem here is | :15:30. | :15:37. | |
entrenched. Years of depravation have left 46% of people here with | :15:37. | :15:43. | |
no qualifications at all, finding a job is tough. My job is to get work, | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
I'm doing college, that is the only way to do it is to get a trade in | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
college. Now the Government has stopped EMA, you have to pay for it | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
yourself, it is hard to pay for it. Figures today show youth | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
unemployment above 20%, the evidence is it is scarred, a spell | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
on the dole before the age of 23 can affect you throughout your | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
working life. There are permanent scaring effects from this temporary | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
unemployment shock. For example an individual who has a spell of | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
unemployment during youth, their wages will be lower, even up to 20 | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
years later. So they can have wages when they are 42 which are 20% | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
lower than an individual who wasn't unemployed during their youth. | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
part of the solution, says the Government, is Enterprise Zones, 11 | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
new ones were named today. In the zone you get 100% business rate | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
discount for five years. Simplified planning regulations and Government | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
support for superfast broadband. need the private sector to be the | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
engine of growth and jobs. The good news is the private sector has | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
created around half a million jobs over the last year, we need it to | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
go further and faster to make sure there are good will-paid jobs for | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
all our people. That is why Enterprise Zones matter. Here is | :16:58. | :17:06. | |
the kind of place it is supposed to work. Cobalt Light Systems a high- | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
tech start up in Oxford. It has 15 employee, mainly scientist, but is | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
about to go into production mode, which should mean more technician | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
jobs. One of the options for us, is to start to manufacture, as our | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
products gain acceptance, and I think the innovation centres and | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
the Enterprise Zones certainly will help us to do that. As we grow, for | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
example, we will have to move out of this innovation centre, there is | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
some Greenfield sites nearby, and certainly the Enterprise Zones will | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
encourage new build structures that we can potentially move into and | :17:40. | :17:46. | |
occupy in the future. But, as for many UK firms, the problem is the | :17:46. | :17:52. | |
absence of a trained and skilled work force. If you look at where | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
the Enterprise Zones are cited, there is a mismatch, it is always | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
some distance from the unemployment black spots. The one in London is | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
near Canary Wharf, the two in Birmingham are not exactly in the | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
worst hit areas, it is the same across the country. There is a | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
reason. Fundamentally I think these places have become unattractive for | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
businesss to locate in, want to set up. That is a very big challenge | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
these places face. We know the types of things that would improve | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
the economic boincy of these areas would be to improve their skills | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
profile. For example, areas like Stoke Hull, Birmingham, all areas | :18:32. | :18:39. | |
with an Enterprise Zone, have between 17-19% of their working age | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
people unemployed. Addressing these deep seated challenges will be more | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
important to the long-term economic growth potential of these cities. | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
The first Enterprise Zones were launched in the early 1980 today | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
they are widely believed to have failed. The relocated existing jobs | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
didn't create new one, and what stalled employment was sustained | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
recovery, which is what is not happening today. Schemes such as | :19:03. | :19:09. | |
the private enterprise scheme, they are incentivising the private | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
sector to create jobs, this won't have a quick impact on youth | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
unemployment. We need a direct scheme that quickly takes the | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
individuals out of unemployment and into work or education now. Because | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
if we don't do that the consequences for these individuals | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
will last a lifetime. And there is another problem revealed in today's | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
figures about migration, employment among British workers in red, falls | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
rapidly at the start of the crisis but only among foreign nationals in | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
yellow. But then, in the recovery, foreign workers have taken more | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
jobs than UK nationals, especially in the last two quarters. Here's | :19:48. | :19:56. | |
the view on that from people. are coming over working minimum | :19:56. | :20:02. | |
wage, we can do the same work for minimum wage, it is harder for an | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
English person, than a Polish person who can get a job straight | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
away. The real nightmare for politicians in the recovery, is we | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
get a recovery in private sector demand, but the work force can't | :20:14. | :20:20. | |
match it. With nearly a quarter of all adults economically inactive, | :20:20. | :20:30. | |
:20:30. | :20:30. | ||
the skills base is being eroded, with one million unemployed it is | :20:30. | :20:37. | |
not catching up faster. There will be 250,000 school leavers with A- | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
level results tomorrow to add to that. | :20:40. | :20:47. | |
The private sector hasn't delivered the jobs bonanza fast enough to | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
deal with the numbers of 17-23- year-old who is are on the dole and | :20:53. | :21:01. | |
unskilled. They will left behind? There is a huge youth unemployment | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
challenge. If you look at the labour market over the last 12 | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
months, we have seen four-times as many jobs created in the private | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
sector, as jobs lost in the public sector. Who are they going to? | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
of the frustrations is we haven't had up to now a scheme to match | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
unemployed British workers to vacancies. We have that now, that | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
is designed to solve that problem. You have the enterprise areas, but | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
not in the areas where there is all the unemployment, there is a | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
mismatch immediately? That is not right, if you look at the north- | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
east, areas particularly affected, an area where we can't to see a | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
bigger and stronger private sector, there are two Enterprise Zones, one | :21:45. | :21:52. | |
in the Tees Valley and one around Newcastle. That will serve as an | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
engine to help grow the private sector. You are not matching the | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
unemployment black spots with skills. If you don't put highly- | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
skilled training in areas where the factories are, the factories will | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
go to foreign nationals as we see on the graph? You talk about it | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
being far away, in London we have black spots in South-East London, | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
we have an Enterprise Zone around Canary Wharf, that is a short | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
commute away. In the north, black spots in Newcastle and an | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
Enterprise Zone around Newcastle, they are there, and close by and | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
accessible. The fact is the jobs aren't going to British national, | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
that graph was perfectly clear, as the recovery starts, foreign | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
nationals, not British nationals are getting the jobs. That is a | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
strange position for a Conservative Government? We recognise that | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
problem, one of the key goals of the providers who are going to be | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
delivering our work programme s to match individual job seekers to | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
find the right opportunities, to remote vait people who have been | :22:53. | :23:01. | |
out of work for long time, to fill the skills gap to make sure there | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
is the ready work force. filling of the skills gap is too | :23:04. | :23:10. | |
slow. It must be very disheartening for 17-23-year-olds, who haven't | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
got the skills now and see this whole wave of schoolchildren coming | :23:15. | :23:21. | |
out behind them. You atrify if you are unemployed, your skills become | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
less. That is right. If you look at young job seekers we have done two | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
things. Along with the work programme and the support we | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
provide through organisations like the Prince's Trust, our work | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
experience scheme is delivering those opportunities for precisely | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
those people. Joining us now are Martina Milburn, the chief | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
executive of the Prince's Trust, Laura Rennis, long-term unemployed | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
but now running her own business and from Newcastle, Andrew Hodgson, | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
the chief executive of a high-tech manufacturing company on north | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
Tyneside. Andrew Hodgson, you heard the minister say that the skills | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
are there in the right areas, you run a high-tech company, what's | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
your experience? For the last two years we have recruited about 200 | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
people, all of very high skill. But I have to say that most of that has | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
been achieved by taking from companies that have been laying off. | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
I think we are reaching the point now where we are struggling to find | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
people with the right skills going forward. We tried to do things with | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
the local colleges and universities to address, that clearly, as you | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
have said, it is quite a slow process. In fact, you don't have | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
young engineers? We have some young engineers entering our population, | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
but over time we have seen, in the last ten years, the number of | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
people taking up science and technology-type degrees have | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
dramatically reduced and therefore the quality of people entering the | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
population at graduate level has been severely reduced. You have a | :24:46. | :24:52. | |
lot of unemployed people in your area? The north-east as the highest | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
level of unemployment, we have one of the lowest levels of skills, | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
clearly you can see the co-relation between those two numbers. That is | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
firsthand experience for a man trying to run a high-tech company? | :25:02. | :25:09. | |
This is precisely the reason why we have had 100,000 extra | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
apprenticeships. It is essential for a high-tech business to develop | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
the skills at college and university level that are right for | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
those companies. You heard manufacturing capability talked | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
about, we have to make sure where we have investment in manufacturing, | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
we have skills that are built amongst the existing unemployed | :25:28. | :25:30. | |
community, that they are remote vaited and we find the right | :25:31. | :25:40. | |
:25:41. | :25:49. | ||
vacancies for them. .We Have to match the employers with employees. | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
This is where the Prince's Trust comes in, you are matching people | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
so far off the scale of skills, how does this help them? The way you | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
help those types of young people is with a lot of support. One of the | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
things we have been discussing with Government is the amount of support | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
and long-term support that those young people need, and it isn't | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
just about the cash, it is about the people and meantors that go | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
with them. How long were you unemployed? About four or five | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
years. What did that feel like being there, somebody else in the | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
film thought about it there you feel like you are atrifying on the | :26:26. | :26:34. | |
dole? You get a sense of demote vaigs, you become very defeatist | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
and depressed, you get very fed up, I know myself I didn't want to not | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
have a job. Is that the experience of a lot of your friends r a number | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
of your friends in the same position? At the time I do remember | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
a lot of my friends were seeking employment, but thankfully they are | :26:51. | :27:01. | |
:27:01. | :27:03. | ||
all in employment now. What is your impression of the skills gap? | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
training do you think people need? There is a lot of attention for | :27:06. | :27:12. | |
people to achieve the core subjects, English, maths and science, there | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
are a lot of young people who are cast aside that don't achieve | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
highly in the main academic subjects. There are so many young | :27:21. | :27:27. | |
people if they were channelled in the same way to complete CDT, wood | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
shop, electricians courses and things like that, they wouldn't be | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
cast aside and put that element of doubt upon them that they are not | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
able to achieve anything. Is that your experience with young people | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
that they are not channelled in the right direction? I think so, with | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
the apprenticeship level it is set quite high, you need to have NVQ | :27:48. | :27:54. | |
level 2 or 3, and the group we are talking about haven't even got NVQ | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
level 1, just to finish, a young person told me a while ago they had | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
left their apprenticeship, because they were doing a plumbing course, | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
but they had to spend all the time doing the history of plumbing, I | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
don't want a plumber who knows the history of plumbing, I want someone | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
to mend my sink, that is the bit we have been working closely with | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
Government to engage those young people, but it takes longer. It is | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
practical experience and help. don't have the time, and they don't | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
have the time, Chris Grayling, surely there needs to be a lot more | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
done. A number of young people simply aren't even on the starting | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
ladder? One of the problems is many employers are reluctant to take on | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
someone straight from school or college. We are trying to do | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
through the work experience scheme is to get employers, we have now | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
thousands of young people going through the scheme, into the work | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
place for a couple of months to show employers what they can do. | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
that enough, Andrew Hodgson? Sorry. Is it enough now to say to young | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
people here is two months that you can go away and work out what you | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
want to do, and then you have to find your path, is that enough? | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
think it is very, very difficult, we hear a lot from various employer | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
groups about the employability of young people, I think it is | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
important that people understand that is an issue, maybe two months | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
does give people chance to folk cushion but clearly we need to be | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
working with people - focus, but clearly we need to working with | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
people to see they have the growth paths for the future. Do you think | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
things will get worse before they get better? I think things will get | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
better. We are looking through the Enterprise Zone in the north-east, | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
creating 3,000 low-carbon jobs, I think the number will be more like | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
10,000, there are a lot of opportunities for British companies | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
to focus. We have a pretty good skills base, not with standing | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
everything we have said today. We have a great infrastructure in the | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
north-east, I think we have started on a path to growth. Path to growth | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
there, a slow path to growth maybe, the danger is you won't do enough | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
to turn this around in time? These are difficult times economically | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
there are two things we have to do to try to build employment. One is | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
to create the kind of environment we are talking about through | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
Enterprise Zones, where businesses are growing and creating jobs. The | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
other is through the work being done by the work programme, | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
Jobcentre Plus, and the organisations like the Princess | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
trust, providing specialist support for the long-term unemployed, that | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
is what we are doing as well. In an interview today the Work and | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, said Britain was the last | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
chance saloon when it came to the social crisis, that wasn't the | :30:30. | :30:37. | |
crisis but the crisis is coming. Most of the violent disorder took | :30:37. | :30:46. | |
place in inner cities, some more quiet pockets of England fell | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
victim to the rioting too and looting. We went to find out what | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
happened. This doesn't look like the place to contemplate the | :30:53. | :31:00. | |
problems of contemplery Britain. Gloucester is an easy going city on | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
the tourist circuit. Famous for the Cathedral and for once being the | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
unlikely home of mass murderer Fred West. On Tuesday last week its | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
image suddenly changed. Windows were smashed and shops looted. | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
Bristol was quieter, but the trouble across the west has the | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
police at full stretch. Gangs of youths took to the streets hurling | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
rocks and bottles at police, smashing windows and starting fires. | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
Firemen needed police protection against the rioters. 24 people have | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
been charged so far. I understand that most of them are white. Just | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
over a week on, the arrests have continued, cases go through court, | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
and the city has returned to its pleasant, normal tranquility, at | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
least on the surface. There is still a furious debate, why | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
Gloucester, why on earth should there be riots here? The riots have | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
led to soul searching with inevitably very different and | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
sometimes startling conclusions. Outside the Cathedral, I met two | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
ladies who worked there. Were you surprised this happened in | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
Gloucester? Not at all. You weren't surprised? Not at all. Do you not | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
feel safe in Gloucester? No, I don't. We were mugged in May in the | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
porch of the Cathedral. Just round the back here? Yes, I have | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
travelled extensively, go to London a lot, and feel more at threat in | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
Gloucester than any other city in the country. They haven't got | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
discipline, they haven't got discipline at home, and therefore, | :32:30. | :32:36. | |
they grow up with the idea that the world owes them a living, that the | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
gang culture takes over, nobody else matters, and I think it is | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
very, very sad. We have got to do something. The local MP was, | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
perhaps, naturally, concerned for the city's image. I'm not sure I | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
would call them riots. I think the police themselves would say. Police | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
taked with bottles and stones, buildings set on fire, firemen | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
frightened because they were being attacked themselves, that is a riot | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
surely? No. Police had to stop people coming into the centre here, | :33:04. | :33:10. | |
that is the way they talk about it? I think the word "riot" is too | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
strong. We had a very disappointing night with significant disturbances | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
and one empty building, set on fire in an upper room. That doesn't | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
really mean a riot. It is all about image for Gloucester, isn't it? | :33:25. | :33:27. | |
doesn't help Gloucester's reputation, we know it was a bad | :33:27. | :33:33. | |
night a lot of us were very cross about it. I had 700 e-mails from | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
people frustrated about such things happening here. We had a fire in | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
the college just over here. And then a large group forming up in | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
East Gate Street. The police took me on a tour of last week's trouble | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
spots. They did well in keeping rioters out of the city centre. | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
is here they managed to find things to grow at the police. People were | :33:55. | :34:01. | |
using bottles they brought from pubs to use as missiles. Assistant | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
Chief Constables argued that cutbacks could have been a factor. | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
If you look at what is happening across the whole of the country in | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
terms of cutbacks of services for a number of people, it is likely that | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
is going to have an impact on people feeling valued or being | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
listened to or getting the services they need. Some of that may have | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
played out on Tuesday evening in Gloucester, I think it is really | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
hard to say there was a direct impact. Certainly, what we would | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
all like to see are far more services for young people, far more | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
activities to engage young people and actually make them feel they | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
have a stake in society, that they have some hope of getting a job in | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
the future, some hope of getting a decent education and training, and | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
they have actually got their place in society, where they are earning | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
a living and they would do all of those things that the rest of us | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
would like to do. Gloucester may have the appearance of a well off | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
affluent city, but the figures show 9,000 people out of work across | :35:00. | :35:06. | |
Gloucestershire. This is one of the most deprived areas, with high | :35:06. | :35:13. | |
unemployment and most claiming benefits across the city. It is a | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
multiracial part of the city. It was here the rioters caused damage | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
after failing to reach smarters shops across the city. | :35:22. | :35:28. | |
There is place for young people to go here. Some of the time. The | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
Youth Peace Project was launched last week just after the riot. It | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
is funded through the Home Office, using money eased from criminals, | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
it is only open four hours a week. Back about five years ago there was | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
four youth centres all open sometimes four nights a week, for | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
up two to three hours at night, then they had summer provisions | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
during the summer holidays when young people are not at school and | :35:52. | :35:59. | |
college T has diminished ridiculously. The project is run by | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
Delroy Ellis, a one time drug dealer, now praises for community | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
work. He used to run another youth club but it closed last December | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
because he lost its funding. He claims there is a connection | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
between that loss and the riot? Told by people that nearly 1500 | :36:16. | :36:26. | |
:36:26. | :36:26. | ||
people that attended the meeting from the riots came from Star 66, | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
that is from the old club. I'm not saying I could have stopped it, I | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
would have put something in place if I knew it was a rioting night, I | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
would have opened up the youth club and say come on and talk about it. | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
How does he see the problems of young people in the area? 70% of | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
the kids I work with on daily basis they have no aspirations, they are | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
saying what is there out there. You have told me there weren't nothing | :36:50. | :36:57. | |
out there when you were 21, you are now 34, what is out there for me 21 | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
years on, it is upsetting. If they feel no-one listens to us, we are | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
not valued, we haven't any hope for a different life, some of those | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
people will be engaging in criminal activity, not to condone it, but | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
understand what it is about. They see greed taking place in other | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
parts of our society, in all the different strata of our society, | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
they see people getting away with that, there is something here about | :37:22. | :37:28. | |
saying what about me, don't I get some as well. What happened here? | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
There seemed to be many reasons. Copy cat rioting, boredom, despair | :37:33. | :37:39. | |
at lack of opportunities, and just plain greed. The unemployment | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
figures revealed today the number of women out of work has hit levels | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
not seen in 23 years. How can females improve chances of | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
employment. A controversial new book by a senior research fellow at | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
the London School of Economics argues that the fairer sex is | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
missing a trick. Catherine Hakim argues that women have something | :37:59. | :38:04. | |
called "erotic capital" and they should use it to get on in the work | :38:04. | :38:10. | |
place. She cites Carla Bruni and Christine Lagarde as all luring | :38:10. | :38:16. | |
mistresses of "erotic capital", she also says in today's culture women | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
should be less squeamish about selling themselves. We think this | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
is what she might have in mind. # Because you're gorgeous | :38:26. | :38:33. | |
# I'd do anything for you # Because you're gorgeous | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
Managers I know you'll get me through | :38:38. | :38:46. | |
# You said my clothes were sexy # You tore away my shirt | :38:46. | :38:56. | |
:38:56. | :39:03. | ||
# Because you're gorgeous # I'd do anything for you. | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
Margaret came to the leadership of the party, and primeship, by being | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
a sweet little blonde lady batting her eyelashes with big floppy bow, | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
how feminine can you get, you never ever saw her in trouser, even that | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
connoisseur of women, Alan Clarke said, that Margaret Thatcher had | :39:23. | :39:33. | |
:39:33. | :39:41. | ||
good legs. It wasn't the whole The exponent of this theory, Dr | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
Catherine Hakim is here, along with the writer, Laurine Penny. You are | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
suggesting there is human capital, social capital, employment capital | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
and erotic capital. You seem to be saying there is a male sex deficit, | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
men don't get enough sex and therefore, women should exploit | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
that to get on. Really what I'm saying is men and women benefit | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
from erotic capital, in fact the research results show that men seem | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
to be getting a higher return on their erotic capital than women. So | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
maybe women have a little bit of catching up to do. What you are | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
suggesting is women should make the most of themselves? Men and women | :40:18. | :40:24. | |
should make the most of themselves. Like what? First of all it is | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
important to define erotic capital, and what my book says is that | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
social and physical attractiveness is important in all areas of life, | :40:34. | :40:40. | |
and gives people an advantage in all social situations. If you | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
understand erotic capital and the power it gives you in social | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
situations you will be more successful in the work place, in | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
friendships and the politics of private life. But what you are | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
seeing primarily dealing with women here, is erotic capital gets women | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
on, and women who are erotic in whatever way that is are more | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
likely to do well in the work place and should exploit it, and the | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
problems in the work place are nothing to do with discrimination | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
and sexism and whatever, it is just women don't come on properly? | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
don't say in any place in the book that it is not about sex | :41:16. | :41:21. | |
discrimination, that that doesn't exist. I'm simply saying that | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
erotic capital is one of the personal assets, for men, as well | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
as women, that has been overlooked in all writing so far, and we need | :41:30. | :41:38. | |
to now focus on. Reading this book, and listening to | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
this talk about erotic capital really makes me very sad, because, | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
yes, you should make the most of yourself, it sounds very obvious, | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
saying, this is the way the world is, you can't change it, women are | :41:50. | :41:56. | |
judged on their appearance, that is the way it is. I like to this isn't | :41:56. | :42:03. | |
the best of all worlds, we can't change it, but it just takes a bit | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
of imagination. 100 years ago Dr Hack wouldn't be able to go and | :42:08. | :42:13. | |
study for a PhD, stating the obvious in the book, it seems to | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
say that the world can never change and women can only be judged on | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
their appearance. That is not good enough, we need to say more to | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
women. You say it is an advantage to man, men have the most | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
advantages in terms of being more attractive, and that is the fault | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
of radical feminists, that is what you say? I don't say that, I simply | :42:33. | :42:38. | |
say the research evidence is that people with, who are socially and | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
physically attractive earn something like 10-20% more than | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
people who are unattractive. I'm simply saying that feminists have | :42:48. | :42:55. | |
been reluctant to accept that it can be an advantage and a benefit, | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
that's just being said this evening. If women have this erotic capital, | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
why don't they benefit from it then? I'm saying women haven't | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
benefited as much as begin are benefiting, there seems to be a bit | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
of catching up to do. In other words there is sex discrimination | :43:11. | :43:17. | |
going on here, but it is a kind not many people have recognised, | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
because nobody has wanted to recognise the importance of erotic | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
capital as a personal asset in all roles of life. It is not just the | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
labour market, it is friendships, private life, getting on, and | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
making life easier for you in all sorts of contexts. What Catherine | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
Hakim is also saying, is part of the whole story about erotic | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
capital is the sex industry. And that actually it would be a much | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
better way and much fairer way to run society, and women would be | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
advantaged, if they decriminalised sex workers and women were allowed | :43:51. | :43:57. | |
to charge for sex, because men understand that? Well, all this | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
talking about sex work and the sex industry, and erotic capital as a | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
way of measuring relationships, it is a very mercenary way of talking | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
about relationships between people. What really strikes me most about | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
this book in this argument is it is very, very inhuman. It is talking | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
about human relationships as a species of returns and marketing. | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
Isn't that the case, isn't it the case that people are quite | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
mercenary and calculating when it comes to relationships? No, I think | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
you can think a lot better things of people, people are also very | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
loving, it is possible to be decent to one another without seeing life | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
as a constant market and selling yourself, it is a sad view of the | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
world. Do you think you should sell yourself all the time? Economists | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
point out anything that is scarce has value, and attractiveness, | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
social and physical attractiveness, charm, being able to get on well | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
with people, as well as beauty, as well as sex appeal, all of these | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
things have scarcity value and therefore, as a result. You believe | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
women should be allowed to sell themselves for sex without any | :45:04. | :45:06. | |
criminality and men should be encouraged to buy, that because | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
that is what women should pride themselves in that? I didn't say | :45:11. | :45:16. | |
that, my book says explicitly that the sex industry should be neither | :45:16. | :45:19. |