16/08/2011 Newsnight

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In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark. Are the sentences being handed to convicted looters too severe?

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Could this be the most compelling evidence yet of a phone hacking


cover-up at News International, former royal reporter, Clive


Goodman, claims hacking was discussed widely at editorial


meetings, and said he was told he could keep his job if he didn't


implicate the paper in court. shows how many people in the


company were involved in phone hacking, a devastating piece of


evidence. We will discuss what damage these allegations could do


to News International and James and Rupert Murdoch. Four years for


trying to incite a riot on Facebook last week. That was the sentence


given to these two men in the Crown Court today. Rough justice? We ask


a leading QC if the courts are getting it right? Also the


extraordinary world of the 21st century slum and the lessons they


hold for the west. People have built their shantys either side of


this canal, it is only six feet wide in parts. We discover these


Manila residents won't be cleared from their homes. We will fight,


this is what we want, we will fight for our freedom. We will fight for


our community. According to a letter by a former News of the


World reporter, and published today by a Parliamentary Committee, phone


hacking was rife at the News of the World, and discussed at the daily


meetings. A letter by Clive Goodman, also alleges that the editor, Andy


Coulson, offered to let him keep his jop if he agreed not to


implicate the paper in court. As well as evidence from a cover-up


at News International, there were serious questions raised about


whether James Murdoch misled parliament over his knowledge of


the extent of hacking at News of the World.


In the News International version of events, many details thus far


have been obscured, they have maintained throughout that the then


News of the World editor, Andy Coulson, and other senior figures


knew nothing about widespread illegal practices at the paper.


The paper's royal editor, Clive Goodman, pleaded guilty to phone


hacking and in January 2007, was imprisoned for four months. In


parliament, the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee, has been


pursuing this matter since 2003. At lunchtime today they announced they


were now about to release some important new documents. Within the


evidence that will be published at 1.00, there are some devastating


revelations which will mean the company in general will have


questions to answer. In amongst a huge shrew of


documents released by the parliamentary select committee


today, perhaps the most explosive is this, dated March 2007, it is


from Clive Goodman, he is replying to a letter from News International


telling him they are terminating his employment. He writes back with


some serious allegations about just how widespread hacking was at News


of the World. Mr Goodman complains the decision


is inconsistent because other members of staff were carrying out


the same illegal procedures. He goes on to say that the practice


was widely discussed in the daily editorial conference, until


explicit reference to it was banned by the editor. The editor, it is


widely assumed tonight, was Andy Coulson. But further on in the


letter Mr Goodman makes another, even more serious allegation. He


says tomorrow Crone and the editor promised on many occasion that is


he could come back to a job on the newspaper if he did not implicate


the paper or any of the staff in the mitigation plea. He did not,


and expected the paper to honour its promise to him. It is obviously


a serious document. Elinor Goodman alleges that is in return for his


sigh - Clive Goodman allege that is in return for his silence News


International would look after him, and others were up to their necks


in phone hacking. He also claims that the senior editor, Andy


Coulson, knew what was happening. Here is the other strange thing, in


amongst the huge pile of document, there was not just one version of


Clive Goodman's letter to his bosses complaining about his


dismissal, but two. With those serious allegation about hacking at


News of the World, there came via the law firm that dealt with the


unfair dismissal case. The other version had the details blacked out,


in some cases missing all together. Who supplied this version to the


committee? News International and James Murdoch. We asked News


International to account for the discrepancy between these two


versions of the letter, but couldn't get any official comment.


In statement though, they told us that they recognised the


seriousness that the materials disclosed and are working in a


constructive and open way with all the relevant authorities.


We learned today also of the payments made to Clive Goodman


after his dismissal by News Why pay so much, the select


committee wants to know, to someone who had been convicted of a


criminal offence. As a former accountant and finance director,


you should always follow the cash, the cash often leads to the truth.


Whether that is trying to track down payments to police, or indeed


payments to employees who have been dismissed. A lot of these things do


need to be answered. Within six months of that letter being written


by Clive Goodman, he received over �200,000 in payments from the


newsgroup, and we need to try to understand why that is. If you


don't believe a word he saying, why would you go and pay all that kind


of money. Some members of the select


committee are concerned they may have been misled over the scale of


these payments to Clive Goodman. In late 2009, Rebekah Brooks admitted


written evidence to the select committee, in it she said the


payment to Goodman, and there was only one, she said, was less than


�60,000, plus an unspecified sum to cover his notice period.


We now know the real figure was in excess of �240,000.


News International was still claiming that Goodman was a lone


rogue reporter, but police had more information, Glenn Mulcaire, the


private investigator used by Goodman, had 1 1,000 pages of notes.


Police found an exmail to someone at News of the World from - e-mail


to someone at News of the World marked "for Neville ", it was a


transcript of a message left on the phone of Gordon Taylor, as they


were not interested in the world of football, the implication is


someone else at the paper must have been involved. In April 2008 Taylor


was paid several hundred thousand pounds sanctioned by James Murdoch.


Mr Murdoch has told parliament and others that he was not aware of the


"for Neville" e-mail at the end. When you signed off the Taylor


payment, did you see, or were you made aware of the full Neville e-


mail, or the transcript of the voicemail message. I was not aware


of that at that time. In today's shrew of documents, a letter from


Tom Crone to the select committee. Mr Crone was legal manager at News


of the World at the time. He The final set of revelations today


has come from News International's one time law firm, Harbottle &


Lewis. They were asked by News International to go through some


internal e-mails to see if Clive Goodman's claim of wider knowledge


of the phone hacking stood up. They said they could find no evidence.


Harbottle & Lewis claimed that this information was wrongly


misrepresented as a full scale inquiry. This is James Murdoch from


last month. It is a key bit of legal advice from senior counsel


that was provided to the company. Today the committee has written to


several previous witness, including James Murdoch, posing further


questions. It seems likely that many f not all will be recalled to


give further evidence. We asked News International on to


the programme, but they didn't want to appear. Joining me now in the


studio is former News of the World editor, Paul Connew, columnist for


the Mail, Stephen Glover, and from Hull, the former deputy Prime


Minister, Lord Prescott. How significant do you think these


letters, all these documents are in the action with News International?


Very significant. It is what a lot of us have believed for a long time,


though denied by Murdoch. There was a conspiracy of silence between a


lot of people at the top. When I hear them now contradicting what


was said, why did they keep their mouths shut when all of us were


fight to go show it wasn't a one- person operation. Murdoch's


business philosophy is pay them off, as much money as you can, deny the


evidence, make sure it looks as only one company, and then withhold


information. Murdoch press have been involved in that from the


beginning when a few of us were trying to stop it. The murd mur


press will deny that. We have to - the Murdoch press will deny. That


we have to make clear these are allegations by Clive Goodman, he


was convicted and put in prison and found guilty of a crime, but this


letter is quite self-serving, you have to admit? Those of us saying


there was something wrong, the police were giving us the wrong


information, the PPC hadn't investigated properly. They knew


they had the e-mail of 2007, which said, what he was threatening to do,


he was bargaining, he got paid off, they paid the money, what did they


pay that for. Paul Connew, it wasn't proven they were paying him


off. They agree he was paid, you heard in the production. I think


Rebekah Wade thought it was �60 though, now we hear it is up to a


quarter of a million. We don't know if they were paying them off or


this the notice period they were paying off. Let me bring in the


studio guests in London. He went to jail and committed the


offence, I don't know any other employee gets that situation.


without doubt an explosive moment in this whole saga. But it depends


on whether Clive Goodman's letter is accurate. Now, quite clearly he


was looking for the maximum payment possible. Could there be a veiled


threat in that letter? There could be. Many media observers and former


editor, including myself, have been sceptical about the idea that there


was a lone rogue and people didn't know what was going on. At the


moment, in fact, the only person convicted it Clive Goodman. The PR


disaster for News International, and it has been for some time. But


they don't really know precisely what Mulcaire has got. And there


has always been cover-ups internally, we don't know who has


misled who inside News International. Harbottle & Lewis


believe they were misled in the parliamentary commity. There is a


conflict in evidence, that is the company's lawyers. It is incredibly


murky, this cannot be a good day for the Murdochs? It is, and mind-


boggling involved. We may think we understand it, I have to put a


towel round my head and I'm meant to make a living out of this stuff.


Whether the dog or the duck remotely follows what is going on,


it is not a good day for the Murdochm pyre, the story has


advanced a bit - Murdoch empire, the story has advanced a bit, but


there are some revelations. They will ask James Murdoch to come back,


he can handle himself very well, he's a very shriek, some what


slippery character. Who knows what will happen. I think we are


advancing towards what we know in our hearts is that the News of the


World was a dysfunctional paper, and there were lots of executives


who knew what was going on. didn't write that to begin with,


you disbelieved all the arguments that a few of us were trying to put


up. Like most of the press they ignored it. What I said, and what I


still do say, is that I don't think this is the most important story in


the world. Isn't it the case that because t apart from it being going


on for a long time. The people that have been affected are people, by


and large, are people perhaps that can fight for themselves, but


actually, the wider world, the great British public is getting


less and less concerned about this? I'm not sure that's true. Some of


them are making contrast, if you look at Twitter, two guys have got


four years for using the social network to advocate riot, terribly


wrong, no doubt about it, four yirs and we have been about five years -


four years, and we have been about five years trying to get a company


to admit it was involved in a criminal conspiracy. I have been


involved in phone-ins over the last weeks and months. What is


interesting is callers are pretty evenly de divided, a lot of they


will feel there is a grave danger here that politicians are looking


for way to actually control the press through statutory regulation


and they don't like it. They want a robust press, even one that is


flawed. If the public see that wrongdoing is going unpunished, why


should they have any faith? There is a crisis of confidence in the


public about so many cornerstones of democracy, press, politicians,


and the police. There is no reason for people, if they have been


guilty of wrongdoing to get away with it by phone hacking? I'm not


suggesting that. There is a real public crisis of confidence here,


and it goes beyond the press, the press is part of their


disillusionment at the moment. you support the PCC, its role has


been abominable. They have behaved badly, but I still believe in self-


regulation, but with real teeth. In fact, a recent study showed that of


the 25 countries with effective free press, 21 of them had self-


regulation, only four had statutory regulation, and two of those are


thinking of changing it. For the public to have faith in the press


again, do you think there has to be regulation, or is self-regulation


sufficient? Self-regulation will have to be tightened up. When Lord


Prescott rails against the PCC, they didn't have vast resources and


they were lied to by people from News of the World again and again.


In those circumstances it is difficult for anybody, when the


wool is pulled over their eyes, to go on. Where do you think it will


go on from here, we know letters have been issued for clarification,


and we know there will be more sittings on the 6th September. Are


you saying you will keep pushing away at this for as long as it


takes? I am pushing away at the courts, with the judicial review,


the police didn't carry out their proper job. I want the courts to


bring them in and explain why they didn't look at the evidence. What


was the influence with the Murdoch press, I'm in that battle with one


or two others. The PPC, we should have taken the 1997 solution, which


was opposed by the press, was still a form of regulation but had


sanctions. That is the way forward to guarantee some accountability of


a press that is, frankly, out of control. Let's look at the what ifs,


if it is found that James Murdoch did mislead parliament, is it


conceivable he could run any part of the Murdoch empire? I don't


think so, if that was established beyond doubt, that would be the end


of James Murdoch. There is a wider question any way as to whether


Rupert Murdoch will maintain control over the empire. A lot of


people in New York don't like the fuss, who don't regard the British


newspapers as particularly important, and think that Mr


Murdoch is too involved. biographer has been talking about


the fact that Rupert Murdoch is ready to sell News International?


think James Murdoch's position, should Colin Myler and Tom Crone


version be correct, then obviously he's an untenable position, and


even Rupert Murdoch won't be able to...Why Didn't they say it before,


when this is going on for years, Mr Myler said he inspected all the


evidence and e-mails and he could say there is no other fd. He said


that then when he - evidence, he said that then when he must have


known that information? There is a dispute over who saw what. That is


one of the great mysteries. It is unedifying when everyone is


scrabling to save their skins? Absolutely, the other point is the


public are very quick to point out it was the press that has actually


exposed the phone hacking scandal. You mean the Guardian. The rest of


the press kept quiet about it. Before we finish this conversation,


I would like to bring one person's name into the frame who hasn't been


discussed tonight, that is Coulson. Again, these are just allegations,


for Andy Coulson this is extremely bad day? Yes, and for David Cameron


too. A lot of people felt it was hostage to fortune with that


appointment. Whether Andy Coulson is guilty of anything or not, it


was still a very risky decision, and David Cameron must be rueing it


tonight. Even if Coulson turns out to be innocent, and he is until


proved guilty, we can all say it was a bad misjudgment on Mr


Cameron's part. There were people telling him, I wrote to him in 2009


in July saying it is unwise to appoint Coulson, I said you were


the opposition at the time, and if you come into Government and


appoint him as a civil servant, that would be terribly brong and


reflect on his judgment. 2009 - wrong and will reflect on his


judgment. It is beginning to do that now. The sentencing of people


involved in the criminal rioting and damaging last week is carrying


on. Two young men received a custodial sentence, after they used


to Facebook to try to incite disorder in Warrington.


The men of previous good character are going to jail for four years.


Does the punishment fit the crime or are the judges overreacting to


the riots. Here is our report.


Justice has been swift, sentences stiff, the Government's tough


rhetoric, matched by tough decisions from the courts. Today


these two men were jailed for four years each, or inciting disorder on


Facebook. Neither had previous convictions and no riots actually


took place. The police had been monitoring what was being posted.


The Assistant Chief Constable of Cheshire Police said tonight that


social media had been used to incite behaviour that would strike


fear into communities, the sentences are meant as a deterrent.


In the wake of last week's looting, it is alleged that magistrates are


to disregard normal guidelines and issue tougher sentences than they


normally would. This is Hackney last week, looters running riot.


Today, as you see, life is pretty much back to normal here. But


plenty of young people now face court that has been sitting through


the night and weekends. Unprecedented times, but are the


sentences being meted out commensurate with the crimes.


Government is taking it a bit too far. Giving people custodial


sentences for theft, because it is actually theft, it is not burglary,


and I think it is ridiculous, it is over the top. What the Government


is trying to do is send a message out to all the other people so it


doesn't happen again. I think some of them are too harsh, I heard a


boy got sentenced for six months for stealing water worth �3.50.


That is too harsh. I understand they should be punished. It is a


bit extra really. It is not the bottle of water, but what you would


have had, the effect it would have had on the people inside.


support very strong sentences? if it will be a deterrent.


Others told us the looters should be made to clear up what they have


broken rather than be put behind bars, and not surprisingly


differences of opinions here are echoed far way in the Westminster


world. There are cases where offenders who have committed


serious crimes should expect very serious sentences, that is what I


expect to happen. But there have been some case where is people who


have committed petty offences have received sentences which, if they


had committed the same offence a day before the riots they would not


have received a sentence of that nature. I think we need to be very


careful of that, that this should be about restorative justice, in


other words making people acknowledge the offences they have


committed and preferably if the victims wanted, to actually sit


down, face-to-face with the victims to hear from the victims the impact


they have had, but it should not be about retribution. This is one of


the most memorable images of what what happened in England last week,


a furniture store in Croydon in flames. The MP for the area has


strong views about how to proceed. We are seeing the sentencing people


have wanted to see for years. I sent out an e-mail to all the


people in my constituency that I have an e-mail address for, on


Tuesday, I had over 1300 responses, there was a virtual unanimity that


people wanted the courts to get tough with the people that caused


the terrible criminality in Croydon. It will help people restore


confidence in the justice system, and send out a clear message that


this kind of disorder will not be tolerated. Over 1,000 people have


appeared before the courts. With many more still to be processed,


the controversy will continue over how they should be treated.


I'm joined by the leading criminal barrister, John Cooper QC, and the


Conservative MP for Stourbridge. The two men inciting violence, four


years, a good decision? I wouldn't want to second guess the court and


the judge. I wouldn't challenge the decision. The young men involved


were inciting a riot, trying to organise a sort of mayhem that we


saw on the streets eight nights ago in Salford. Which would have put


lives at risk. And at the very least they distracted the police


from trying to deal with that crisis. They put a lot of fear into


people. At least one of them turned up at the site with full intention


to steal and loot. Four years a reasonable sentence for that?


I do think so, yes. A reasonable sentence, it was a serious crime,


if they had incited violence there could have been mayhem, injuries


and a lot of looting? All offences are serious offences, nothing I


have to say can take-away from that. This sentence in my view is over


the top. I anticipate it going to the Court of Appeal, and probably


being overturned there. A lot of these sentence also they go to the


Court of Appeal? I anticipate a lot will. What we need to remember is


there is a protocol for sentencing, there are rules and procedures in


sentencing which make them effective and fair. What we can't


do, in my view, in situations like this, is suddenly throw the


rulebook away, simply because there is a groundswell of opinion. We


don't sentence people by virtue of a reality television programme or


an X-factor, your contributor earlier on, one of the MPs, said he


had contacted all his constituents and this is what they think. If


sentences were based on that it would be a great reality TV show


but not great justice. You are saying earlier on the judges are


becoming hysterical, it sounds like a lot of people are hugely charged


up and no wonder, in a way, because of the atmosphere? I don't think it


is an overreaction, I think this time a week ago, eight or nine


nights ago, this country was in had a terrible state. People lost their


lives. Police were faced with unprecedented levels of violence


from a mob. People were just going in and helping themselves to things.


Certainly, in my lifetime, I don't think I have ever been as shocked


and ashamed by anything in this country. Is the atmosphere


different to before the riot, and you were talking about discounting


sentencing in your own party, but people going for the maximum


sentences, and you want judges to go for that? I have certainly


argued for that, I respect your point that it is not up to the


public or MPs as to what is a sentence in the court of law. I


would hope that judges would air on the side of severity for cases like


this. It is not for anyone else but the judges or the magistrates to


make these decisions. When we hear that Government are telling judges


and magistrates to sentence on a wholly different set of priorities.


There is direction coming from the clerks of the court, but not


politicians? Certainly there is a suggestion that an indication has


been given. I certainly haven't heard the Home Secretary, the


Justice Secretary or the Prime Minister try to second guess the


courts and tell them what they should be doing. That is reashuergs


to hear that, I am reassured. You were talking about the MPs


hearing from constituents, isn't the job of MPs to reflect the


public mood. If people are feeling insecure and feeling people should


be put away for crimes, that if they are not put away for, may


commit again quickly, you can understand why people feel insecure


at the moment? I can absolutely understand why people feel insecure,


and the emotion barely a woke after it happened, but it is part and


process of the legal procedure to take a step back from this, and


make sure justice administered isn't quick justice, but sound


justice. Another point I would like to make. A lot of people at the


moment who have been arrested, who would normally get bail, are not


being given bail, but being held in custody, for reasons no other than


the public mood is up. I think the reason is that they have taken part


in a riot and put lives at risk. There is a difference between going


into a shop and shoplifting something, that is a serious crime


in itself, it is different to using violence and mayhem to create that


opportunity. Some of these people haven't. Do you think we are in an


atmosphere where you should revisit sentencing and make it tougher, and


the road the Conservative Government started down was the


wrong one, discounting sentences for a guilty plea? That was a


consultation that the Government decided to not proceed with. I


think we all know there is an issue with jail spaces, and the early


guilty plea does have merit, and it is a current policy. But there was


a feeling that 50% reduction was a step too far. Do you seriously


think now, that people, the mood in the country is for tougher


sentences? I think the mood in the country is for tougher sentences


than we have had for many years. I don't think this is a product of


the riots just. I want to make one point, one of the people on the


preamble were talking rightly about restorative justice, and community


payback. Cleaning up the mess they have created. These things are not,


they don't contradict a prison sentence. There is no reason why


you shouldn't serve some time in prison, and also give the victims


of your crime restorative justice. It is estimated around one billion


people live in shantytowns all over the developing world. That number


is predcted to double by 2050. We are familiar with the slums in slum


dwellings, at risk by typhoon and flood. There is a feeling that the


shantys have a lot of positive aspects that we in the rich west


could learn from. We enter the extraordinary lab brint world where


people koufrpb - lab brint world where people often spend the whole


of their lives. This is the Rice Belt of the Philippines, it is


illusion, calm, idyllic. But more than one million people a year are


leaving it. Poverty, climate change and a population boom are pushing


people off the land. The places they end up in look like this.


Half Manila's population live in slums. And the new global orthodoxy


in urban planning says that is good. Slums are now Lorded as models of


cohesion and sustainability. But here, they are the frontline in war


between the rich and poor. They always look down on us as if we are


just like a little on their eyes. They always refer to us as the


eyesore of the society. This is the Estero de San Miguel.


It is 600ms long, 600 families live on either side. Though it looks


utterly temporary, it is decades old, and so is the pofrpt of those


who live here. - poverty of those who live here. Mina, who has made


her home in the slum, is about to show me how people survive here.


And though I have been in slums before, I have never seen anywhere


like this. It is like a mine. Just a tunnel, dark tunnel, and just


people live off it, like a mine. The tunnel, less than four feet


wide is the centre of their world. This is the queue for the bathroom.


And this, the playground. This is the public space. And as for the


private space? There is very little. So this is where you live.


Three adults, a teenager and a child live here. It is clean, but


the sleeping arrangements are cramped. Where do you sleep,


upstairs? There. You sleep on the floor there. I sleep up, and


husband and wife sleep there. while for some people, slums are


just one stage on the root out of poverty, here most people are


trapped. 20 years. You have been here 20 years. In this house?


As I get further into the Estero de San Miguel, it is like seeing the


worst of 18th century Europe. But why does this survive alongside


skyscrapers, that, really, is the question I'm here to answer. There


is a theory in the world that we can all learn from places like this,


informal settlements, or slums, as we call them, it is true, there is


social cohesion, and entrepeneurship, because if they


didn't they would die. They are living inches from canal full of


sewage, into which sewage is being thrown. I can't help thinking that


the whole theory is a bit of a coppout. Why was it that the


Industrial Revolution was able to clear places like this within a


generation. And yet, in it the era of globalisation, we seem content


to tinker with it. As I'm about to learn the answer is not simple,


because without slum dwellers, many of our global megacities couldn't


function at all. Clean your house, drive your car,


clean your garden, take care of your baby, and if these people get


out of the city the city will die. In a slum called Payatas, right


next to a mountain of gash an, imcome to meet Father Nobilo, he


thinks the slums are unclearable. In an age of scarce resources,


there are lessons here for all of us. You don't need more as a human


being to live. Because of the imbalance of having and not having


is really vast, so what can we learn not only by the rich, but by


everybody, how can you survive and manage scarcity and do little and


do something. - have little and do something. What you notice in the


slum is how organised things are, sports teams, church, women's


groups, even the water fights have rules. Being in a place like this


is a process of stripping away illusions, first that it is


horrible, because it isn't. Second, that the women's groups and the


Credit Unions can sort it all, because they can't. The fundamental


problem is that in an era of land hunger, 98% of the people who live


here, don't have the right to. And the Filipino Government has decided


to clear half a million slum dwellers out of the city by force,


if necessary. You really want live well if you smell sewage, how can


you live well. Attention river warriors.


The baby's water is clean. Meet Gina Lopez, she's on a mission to


clear Manila's water slums and bring the rivers back to life.


Her charity, the River Warriors, recruits local people to clear the


slums, lay drains and patrol the place, to maintain order. Security


around Gina is tight, because she's part of a powerful business family.


They own the energy company, the main TV station, large chunks of


downtown be Manila, she take as traditional view on slum clearance.


There is a theory among some policy makers in the world, that we have


to live with slums and accept slums. I don't agree, exclammation point,


underlined and circled. No way, no way. Why does anyone have to live


like that. I don't think any city can ever come up to its fullest


potential if there are slums and people living like that. But, there


is a problem, the clearance is compulsory, and once they have been


cleared, some people have been coming back. Because, cities are


where the jobs are. In Gina's helicopter, and with


Gina's Chief-of-Staff, I'm off to see the place the slum dwellers


have been moved to. It is 30 minutes, as the chopper flies, but


more than four hours by road. Here density is not a problem. The


problem is, there is no mains electricity, no prospect of ever


getting any, and there are no jobs. The market traders have time to


Come and visit Reuben, he came from the slum. Can I come in? Reuben


came here straight from Estero de San Miguel. He likes it, the house


is bright and solid, but there is still a problem. TRANSLATION:


need factories here, people still go back to Manila to find work. We


try very hard to earn money. Because if you don't, we could die


of hunger. The Government accepts this is not ideal, but they are


determined to go on demolishing the slums. Next on the list for


clearance is the slum I first visited, Estero de San Miguel,


where Mina has invited me back after dark. It is amazing, we're on


a bridge, a yard wide, and here, people have built their shan'ties


either side of this canal - shantys, either side of this canal, it is


only six feet wide in parts. I love the people in this place, but how


on earth do people survive? I think that is the ability of the


Filipinos to be very adaptive. longer I stay in this place, the


more my revulsion at the way people have to live gives way to my


admiration of how they do it. And the tunnel itself is full of


surprises. How is business, how is the shop going? She just graduated


from college. You graduated from college, which college? Iris. Tech


college kal institute. What did you study? Business administration.


is doing my head in, I'm in economic, and I'm talking to a


business graduate here. What do you think about the people who want to


clear it out? The people who want to demolish us here, please don't


do that, because...The Gist of it is we have invested all our money


here, we like it here and it is all we really know. You have lived here


from birth? Yes. Congratulations to you, many people could not do this.


Thank you all, good luck with your shop. What is your name? Anis.


I'm interested in all these guys in these uniforms, who are they?


are my local councillors, and police officers. Police officers?


They live also here. Who recruits them? Me. I organise them. I have


20 local police. They have all got sticks.


One of their main jobs is to protect the slum against arson,


because, places resisting demoligs have a strange habit of get -


demolition, have a strange habit of getting burned to the ground. I'm


stood in the middle of a three-foot wide canal, eight dwellings either


side of it, what is this? This is a computer shop. A computer shop in


the middle of here? Yes, Sir. have, one, two, three, four, five,


six, seven screens, somebody's on Facebook. Somebody's playing poker,


and I'm gradually understanding how this settlement is liveable for


people. In the space of 100ms, I have met


three graduates, a semi-official police force and the social media


revolution. With so much invested in this place, social capital,


Tennessee, money, there is no - tennancy, money, there is no


surprise why they don't want to leave. What will you do? We will


barricade, we will fight for it, this is what they want, we will


fight for our community. Some architects now think we can learn


from slum, afterall, they are human habitats designed without the help


of politicians. The measures of zoning and formallised urban


planning, it fragmented our society. This is a world famous architect


who wants to rebuild the Estero de San Miguel, based on the way the


land is divided up at present. bridge to connect both


neighbourhoods across the canal. That is an optimistic vision


compared to what it looks like now. The slum dwellers support the


scheme, and the plans are ready and the Government says it is too


expensive. Would it not be better to clear it, however painful it is


for them, would it not be better to clear it and start again? Since we


have become an independent country it is the wrong policy, slum


upgrading uproots them from the community. It is also a problem


because they keep coming back, they are not assured of jobs where they


are relocated. For now that is the approach, the fate of 6,000 people


hangs in the balance. We used to think these place would


disappear as the world developed. Instead, they have grown. With


technology and education, people have found new ways to live in them.


And millions of people are heading for them all across the world.


That's all from Newsnight tonight, we leave you with the news that the


iconic Chelsea Hotel in New York, which inspired residents such as


Bob Dylan, and others, is being gentrified, to the horror of the


Manhattan community, the sign says they are no longer taking


reservations. # I remember you were in the


Chelsea Hotel # We were talking so brave and so


As the conviction and sentencing of people involved in the criminal damage and looting last week continues, questions are being asked as to whether the punishments fit the crimes. With Kirsty Wark.