12/10/2011 Newsnight


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Worse than it's been for years, and likely to get worse still. Over 2.5


million without a job, and every It is sad because I know I'm a hard


worker, I do my best, it would be great to find a job. It's my


goal.If It is like this before the next stage of the economic crisis.


What on earth can be done? The bosses of big selling


newspapers come out fighting against further regulation. Both


Steve Coogan and Louise Mensch have been dufd up by the tabloids, but


both agree they have a case. The Defence Secretary continues his "am


I bothered" act, how much longer can he keep it up. I believe that


Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and the saviour of mankind. The front


runner for the Republican presidential nomination, tries to


overcome the criticism that he belongs to a cult. This Texas


Pastor will tell us why are Mormon - a Mormon is not fit for the White


House. There are more people out of work


in this country than at any time in the last 17 years. 2.5 million of


them, 8% of the work force. It is one thing to lose their job, it is


another type of misery again, to come out of education and find


society seems to have no place for you. The picture for youth


unemployment is especially bad. There are nearly a million young


people without a job. Paul Mason is here. You better give us the gory


details. As you say they are 8.1% unemployment, that is a 17-year


high. If we drill into the figures, youth unemployment, 21.6%, that is


getting towards south European levels of youth unemployment. And


there are about a million youth unemployed. Drill down even further,


of the jobs lost in the last three months, 178,000, the vast majority


were part-time. You start to see loads of women, loads of public


sector workers. If we do one more drill down, this is a problem for


the Government. Private sector job creation is up in the last three


months, public sector job losses, 111,000. What you have is a


beginning of a breakdown in the narrative. We were led to believe


the public sector job losses would be offset by the private sector job


creation. That is why the Prime Minister stood up and said this


today. I accept we have to do more to get our economy moving, to get


jobs for our people. But we mustn't abandon the plan that has given us


record low interest rates. The fact that there hasn't been the take up


predicted is to do with growth. Realistically, what can be done?


have already plan A plus, which is �75 billion of quantitative easing,


credit easing is proposed. That is the Government becoming a proxy


lender to small business, we think �10 billion if that ever happens.


That is long-term, the debate now in the Government's growth review


is whether you can do a big jolt a defibrillation of the economy.


There is a whole list of suggestions in tomorrow's New


Statesman, through correspondents the Government will respect. It is


massive tax cut, through VAT or business tax, or it is some further


or more radical version of lending direct to the public. There are


calls for state bank. There is a number of employers' organisations


thinking about a state investment bank. Ultimately I think the


Government cabinet this week discussed things like ripping up a


few European regulations. Let nothing get in the way of growth.


They have got to come up with something, this is a story of a


narrative slightly spiralling out of control. A lot of it is to do


with global conditions, conditions at least elsewhere in the world?


just happened to be the most globalised of the most developed


economies, so it is a problem. When the Government's original austerity


plan was thought up in November 2010, they thought there would be


growth in Europe and America, and our economy would rebalance,


becoming more export orientated and manufacturing orientated because


the demand would be there, but the demand is gone. And if it is


happening at all it is slow. That is the context in which the


political debate fakes place. Even business groups now - takes place.


Even the business groups, it is not the rabid left, even business


groups are saying let's have a demand stimulus quite soon, please.


If the prospects for young people in this country are bleak, imagine


what it must be like elsewhere in Europe. In Spain, for example,


youth unemployment is running at getting on for 50%. The world the


young were educated for no longer exists, that is before the


eurocrisis comes crashing through the door like some out of control


juggernaut. What started off as a Greek problem


has turned into a full blown European crisis. Are politicians in


Europe using a pea shooter instead of David Cameron's weapon of choice,


a big Baz sook ka. One thing is for sure, unless the big guns arrive,


the whole shooting gallery will collapse. Financial markets are


convinced that Europe's weaker economies simply won't be able to


repay all their debts. In an effort to do exactly that, European


Governments have slashed their deficits and forced millions on to


the dole queues. Of the three countries already getting a bailout


from the IMF and the EU, unemployment has soared, Portugal


has 12% out of work, Ireland 14%, and that's rampant job creation


compared to Spain's 21% unemployed. How does Portugal with the debt


mountain of 93% of national income aim to repay its debts. I was in


the position when the external assistance programme was asked and


negotiated. I stand in favour of that programme. I knew how the


situation was extremely difficult for my country. One of the


differences in the Portuguese story is we have a large political


consensus in Portugal about this programme and its obligations. 5%


of the Members of Parliament, despite the differences you can -


85% of the Members of Parliament, despite the differences between the


- Government and the opposition, are in favour of the deal with the


IMF and other institutions. Unemployment in the UK is at 8%, my


guess is the Portuguese Government would love that level of


unemployment? It is true, I would love to have that unemployment


level. The eurozone would love if it only had an unemployment crisis,


apart from millions of people out of work, there is banking cry sai,


many of Europe's largest banks simply may not survive. Then there


is the issue of where the growth comes from. Even the strongest


economy, Germany, has stuttered to a stall in the last few months.


Then there is political paralysis, there doesn't seem to be any way


for European leaders to get around the table and agree a way forward.


That is what President Barroso is, at least, hoping to alleviate.


To that end, the EU commission President was hoping today to put a


proverbial bomb under eurozone leaders, for example, France and


Germany, to solve the crisis. strategy should comprise of five


key steps. It should include all potential systemic banks identified


by the European banking authority across all member states. It should


take account of all sovereign debt exposure in full transparency. It


should involve a temporarily higher capital ratio after accounting for


exposure. Banks that do not have the required capital should present


and then implement plans to have it in place as swiftly as possible,


and until they have done so, they should be prevented from paying out


dividends and bonuses by the national supervisors.


APPLAUSE Three years ago Europe's


Governments spent billions, hundreds of billions bailing out


their banks. That prevented a financial crisis turning into an


outright depression. The problem three years later, as we face


another financial crisis is that the Government simply don't have


the money. So when the IMF and the European Commission suggests


another round of mass recapitalisations, who will pay for


it? Where does the capital come from, from the private or public


sector. The Germans will stand behind their banks. The French have


said we are not sure we can stand behind our banks f someone else


could help us out that would be great. If the French do it on their


own they will lose their Triple A rating, if they lose that, the ESF


can't gear up to 400 billion to 3 trillion. If you don't have the


bailout fund, effectively zone as the ESFS, you can't put the money


where the mouth is. In many ways the banks are the cause and the


cure in this now the second financial crisis. In the boom times


Governments borrowed from banks, gave the money to tax-payers, and


they hoped would get re-elected. Now though, the banks want their


money back and the Governments don't have the money. Perhaps if


the banks consider writing off vast swathes of that debt, that would


get the Governments off the hook. The only problem is that would


collapse many of the banks. Is it fair that many countries are


talking about Greece having a bright off, or haircut of 60% of


its debts, when Portugal has to pay00% of their debts. I will give


you a diplomatic answer, we are focused fully on our commitments,


honour our word, and if we do it, we will do our job. I think this


will be recognised by markets and international communities. What is


the undiplomatic answer? Look, you have to wait. So, over the coming


weeks, are eurozone politicians prepared to lengthen dole queues,


strangle growth, and risk jobs to preserve a currency constructed in


a different era by a different group of leaders.


We are joined by our guests, John Micklethwait, and Julia Hodson, an


MEP who used to run - Guy Verhofstadt, a an MEP who used to


money Belgium. It is going to get worst isn't it? In my opinion the


economic fall-out of this debt crisis in Europe is happening. It


is not only affecting the eurozone, it is also affecting all the


members of the European Union. If you look for an example to the


figures, the fiscal deficit in Britain is higher than average in


the eurozone. If you look to economic growth, economic growth is


lower than the average in the eurozone. The same for the debt


ratio is higher than Britain than in the eurozone. I don't think you


can see that it is as a consequence of the euro, on the contrary. The


problem with the euro is we need as fast as possible to build up an


economic and fiscal union besides the monetary union. We understand


where you are coming from quite clearly at the moment, we will come


to the euro in a second. With the question of unemployment, it is


going to get worse, a great deal worse? Yes it is, both in Britain


and particularly in the European Union. Because whatever he says, at


the moment other economies around the world, China, America, they are


not actually worried about Britain, they are worried about the eurozone.


Indeed the whole world economy is worried about the eurozone. Unless


it actually begins to grow, and begins to actually deal with this


debt crisis unemployment will continue to get worse. How much is


actually in the hands of any individual Government, the British


Government, for example, leaving aside the eurozone for a moment?


The British Government is taking measures, and has taken measures to


reduce the effect of regulation on business, stimulate the private


sector. They are not having much effect, are they? We saw on the


report a number of private sector jobs have been created over the


last quarter, unfortunately it is not offsetting the number of jobs


lost in the public sector. You told us the growth would, you told us


losses in the public sector would be compensated by growth in the


private sector, that is not the case? There have been half a


million jobs created in the private sector in the last 12 months. I


don't think we could have forecast the scale of the lack of growth,


and the United States has growth worse than our's. All the export


markets are under considerable pressure. There is clearly problem,


you but I think the Government has some measures to influence it in a


positive way f not solve the outright problem. If the eurozone


is going to impact badly upon us, there is some argument, for us


making a stub substantial generous contribution to the European


stability fund? That is the argument, pay to play, I guess Guy


Verhofstadt will come in hard on that. The British, in order to have


a role in devising this new Europe, they will have to put in some money.


One argument is some British people might see is that would give us a


voice, and it would certainly provide a much more liberal


direction to the way in which gruls Brussels is going. Against that I


don't think - Brussels is going, against that I don't think the


appreciation would be for us coming in. What do you think of the


suggestion that the British should make some contribution, pay to


play? I would say it is a very good idea! I don't think it is very


realistic. Nevertheless, nevertheless, the reality is that


Britain has a huge interest in a sound eurozone. It should think


about helping to rescue the eurozone. But the way to rescue the


eurozone is a question of creating, as I said already, of an economic


and fiscal union. It is nonsense to have a single currency on the one


side, and then seven different economic strategies and Governments,


- 17 different strategies and economies and bond markets. We need


more European integration to rescue this. Spoken like a loyal Belgian!


I respectfully disagree. Yes, there will have to be more Europe than


there is at the moment. I think everyone pretty much accepts that


for the eurozone. There will have to be more. Yes, you will need some


kind of bugetry supervision, somebody who will just check if the


numbers are correct. And yes, you will probably need some eurozone


bank regulation to make sure they cover the whole eurozone rather


than just international stuff. Once you jump ahead to full fiscal union,


you run into all sorts of problems, not just intellectual ones, but


practical ones. You can't even persuade Slovakia to go along, even


briefly, on what is a huge deal. What will they think about it in


Stourbridge? I think the important thing is Britain won't be a part of


this closer fiscal unit. We are fortunate in that we are not in the


euro. We will not be a part of that. Nor will we be a part of the


bailout. Because we would have to borrow, wouldn't we, in order to


fund the weaknesses elsewhere. I think the flaw in the logic. I


understand the economic theory of closer fiscal union, to support the


single currency, the flaw is the democratic deficit in the argument.


As John was saying, Slovakia won't agree. Any country which has to


ratified the treaty from an electorate will find it very


difficult to get approval. Presumably you believe in the old


European practice to simply telling the Slovakians to go back and vote


again? Sorry, I didn't understand the question. I suppose you think


the Slovakians think they should have another vote until they come


to a conclusion you like? No, I think that we need to change the


rules in this European rescue fund. It is completely nonsense to


continue with the rescue fund based on a unanimity rule, as it is the


case today. Because that makes that one political party, in one of the


17 European members can block a rescue operation fund. I think we


need fight power in the rescue fund, if you want to rescue the euro.


First of all, by abolishing the unanimity rule in the rescue fund.


And secondly, also, this is very important, by increasing the money


that you put in the rescue fun. much? Let's be very honest. I think


we have to double at least, maybe to triple the money that is today


in the rescue fund, if we want really to stablise the euro. And


let me be say one thing as a conclusion, that is that it is the


financial markets today, and the stock markets, they were asking for


an economic and fiscal union, besides the monetary union. They


say if you want the single currency, you need one economic policy.


Very quickly from you two here. Barroso is talking today about 440


billion, the talk is of 1.2 trillion being needed, what is your


guess? My guess is 2 trillion. more? I think that sound like it


would tilt the balance against some of the stronger markets losing


their Triple A rating who will find this two trillion. We don't want to


throw the relatively healthy economies' babies out of the water.


You pitch it low, and you come in with an answer bigger than anyone


expects, you restore confidence. needs to be close to a trillion.


Biggest beasts of the media jungle were prodded out of their dens,


they emerged blinking and bad tempered, to put Lord Levenson


right on how the media works. The inquiry was set up when the phone


hacking story broke by the Prime Minister, the same Prime Minister


who put Andy Coulson at his press secretary.


They were bothered by three big questions, firstly, do we need a


new regulator for the press? Paul Dacre, editor-in-chief of the Daily


Mail, didn't think so. I would like to try to persuade this inquiry


that self-regulation, although a considerably beefed up form, is, in


a country that regards itself as truly democratic, the only viable


way of policing a genuinely free press.


Secondly, how can one guarantee that free press? Dacre thinks


commercial success is the only guarantor of freedom. I would argue


that Britain's commercially viable free press, because it is in hock


to nobody, is the only real free media in this country. Overregulate


that press and you put democracy itself in peril. Finally the


question of whether the Leveson inquiry was necessary at all. The


former editor of the Sun knocked that on the head. Why do we need an


inquiry of this kind? There are plenty of laws to cover what went


on. Afterall, 16 people have already been arrested, and my bet


is, the numbers may well go up to as many as 30, once the police


officers start being rounded up on the corruption allegations.


people who are quite familiar with coverage in the Daily Mail are here.


The last time Steve Coogan was on the programme, there was a most


disparaging piece about him in the Daily Mail a few days after.


And Louise Mensch MP, has also featured in that paper on topics


such as if she has had plastic surgery and her marriage. Let's


take the first question, self- regulation, does it, as was argued


by Paul Dacre today work? Manifestly it doesn't work in the


form we currently have. It was ludicrous of Mr Dacre to suggest at


some length there was no problem there whatsoever. We have to have


it massively beefed up and changed. It is entirely facile to say it is


all working great. Government regulation or self-regulation?


think you must have a free press, but some Government regulation.


papably failed in the biggest single test of its existing in the


last 12 years with the hacking scandal, it did nothing, the only


way it came to the fore, was the tenacity of certain celebrities and


the Guardian newspaper who pursued it. And fellow Eurotunnel


journalists operating under self- regulation? Those journalists are


to be applauded, I don't have a problem with them, it is those who


do the muck raking I don't like. you favour the second question that


came up, what is the guarantee of the free press, Paul Dacre arked,


plausibly, that the best guarantee of a free press is a commercially


liable press? A commissionly viable press a free press, led by the


market, has led to the hacking of Milly Dowler's phone and the


hacking of victims of crimes phones. You also get the Mail being free to


name the alleged murders of Stephen Lawrence? That is the one example


people use. Wasn't it a brave, good thing to do? It is notable by its


singularity. It is the one case that breaks the rule. All the Mail


are interested in, are its commercial interest. It is selling


newspapers, everything is based on who is shagging who. It is not


about trying to expose corruption. That is, as he explained today, was


a way of selling newspapers, it helped to sell newspapers and


carried the cost of the other stuff. That is not why this occurred, it


occurred because victims of crime have been hacked, and self-


regulation hasn't worked. It has come about because of the


abhoration. People broke the law? It was nothing to do with the Press


Complaints Commission that exposed that. You have been a victim of I


won't ask you whether you have had plastic surgery or Botox or what


you have been accused of. It can be hurtful? It can be, but we are


drawing a distinction between the pure tabloid press and the other


press. It was the Guardian asking me in an interview ostensibly about


my politics if I had a face lift and it was the strap line. That was


put there because it is fluff that sells papers. If we want the


Telegraph stories, you have to take it, because it gives you a chance


to put out what you think. You have to roll with the pitches?


depends on the degree. I think whether or not it invades prif vi,


I think they are unwitting stoodges of Paul Dacre and the Guardian


newspaper. I think the Guardian has to be ashamed, because the face


lift piece on conference is not talking about the policies from the


conference. That comes from the Guardian and they need to be


ashamed. I can talk about Corby being the fastest growing town at


the moment, but that won't sell papers, they are interested in


fluff. The circulation in all papers plummeting and we have to


have one that works. If newspapers exist to basically make money, and


the by-product is they occasionally do things laudible and publicly,


they make most of their profit from searching through people's rubbish


bins, then they deserve to go to the wall. Why does it hurt you?


is not about hurting. I'm not here for me, I'm here because of other


people, the not famous people, people who are defenceless, who


can't afford to go to the courts to defend themselves. The tabloid


journalist a few years ago said we ruin people's lives, that is what


we do. That is a rare moment of candour from one of the tabloid


newspapers. As far as you are concerned they can say what they


like about you, you are acting on behalf of others? It has to be in


the public interest. If I was someone, I don't think we should


roll with the punches, certain questions are legitimate, some


aren't. If I went around as a politician and said I was a par


gone of virtue and extolling family values, then my personal life would


be legitimate because I'm trading on it. I work in comedy, if it is


crap, say so, but my personal life has nothing to do with it. Would


Paul Dacre like if I looked in his bin or asked him what he got up to


in bin, it is none of his business. I think he's being disengenius Paul


Dacre, there were 1300 tran actions in his paper, he said people should


be free to et ex-directory phone numbers, it was shown by the


Independent that part of the blagging example was going after


the parents of the Dunblane children, and finding their ex-


directory phone numbers through blagging. That can't be justified.


We mustn't throw the baby out with the bath water f we make newspaper


reports only on good and worthy things, the sad fact of the matter


is people won't buy the newspapers. People by the Guardian and the


broadsheets. They are not making any money? If the tabloids can only


exist by reporting that kind of garbage, that is not a good enough


reason for them to exist. You would rather a free press disappear?


there are plenty of free newspaper that is don't indulge in that kind


of thing that report the news. Times is down 14% year-on-year


circulation. You are saying what we have to do is let them basically


intrude into people's personal lives. They will have to become


more inventive and more creative or be more entertaining. I manage to


entertain people without searching through rubbish bins, I don't have


to do that. They have to stop the hacking and blagging, people won't


put up with it more, and the public understand how they get the stories,


but the Mail fluffy kitten stories won't go away, that is the price


public figures have to put up with if we want a free press to expose


it. If we want the MPs expenses story. The Mail is a newspaper, we


choose as the newspaper to be Alan Partridge's favourite paper,


because it has contempt for the weak, and zenophobic attitude, and


a little England that people drink warm beer and all the corner shops


are run by white people. That is not reality, I don't think someone


who presents and trades on people's worst fears, as that newspaper does,


it panneders to people's worst fears, I don't believe it deserves


to exist. If it went to the wall I would be delighted there are lots


of better newspapers. It is worse than the tabloids. I have great


sympathy with you on the Mail, if not the Daily Mail who? We need


somebody out there to sell the papers. The Mail has a certain


duplicity to its nature. amusingly said it was half way


between a broadsheet and tabloid. will be interested to see what they


write about you. If they do I will be pleased. The MP for north


Somerset is still our Defence Secretary tonight. Liam Fox has had


to cancel a few engagements so he doesn't spend his time answering a


question about a man who he says is above reproach of any kind. A trip


to Paris today was punctuated by sniping from reporters,


demonstrating how few people share his belief that there is nothing to


discuss. The questions swirling around


Defence Secretary, Liam Fox, and his close friend, Adam Werritty,


are around the issue of money. We now know Mr Werritty met Dr Fox on


visits abroad on 18 occasions in the past 17 months. Was there any


financial gain? How did he pay for his travel expenses? Was he


advising clients keen to get access to the minister. REPORTER: In what


capacity did he travel with you, unofficial advisor, friend?


Dr Fox was in Paris today, keen to deflect the questions. Perhaps the


biggest mystery is who funded Adam Werritty and why? The attention is


turning to rich donors funding a charity called Atlantic Bridge,


which champion the political philosophy of Margaret Thatcher and


Ronald Reagan. It was linked to Liam Fox and run by Adam Werritty.


This hedge fund manager has reportedly donated thousands of


pounds. Was this money, and perhaps other donations effectively paying


Mr Werritty. Antic Bridge was removed as a registered charity -


Atlantic Bridge was removed as a registered charity a few months ago,


because it was said to be promoting a political party close to the


Conservatives. Government has to have rules. The taxpayer funds the


operation of Government. To have a parallel operation, off the books,


privately funded, undid he claird, no transparency - undeclared, and


no transparency is worrying. What was Mr Fox's with Sri Lanka, and


what were Mr Werritty's aims? Fox had a long standing


relationship with Sri Lanka, and his ideas were known as the Fox


plan. Last year Adam Werritty and Dr Fox met with the Sri Lankan


President in a London hotel. No British officials were present.


had a meeting with the President of the Sri Lanka at the same time. I'm


well aware of the nature of the meetings. It is in a swith, it is


set out - suite, it is set out as if it was in the Sri Lankan


Presidential Palace. A substantial number of officials from Sri Lanka.


The President of Sri Lanka was not having private meetings. These were


very public meetings, I suspect they are recorded on camera. It is


Mr Werritty's business interests that could determine the fate of


Liam Fox. We know, for example, he has good relations with the


Government of Sri Lanka. If it turns out the Sri Lankans are his


client and have paid him for lobbying work that could be very


serious indeed. If there is money involved will


that change things? It is a hypothetical question. In all these


things you have to look at the context in which something may or


may not happen. To take a particular emphasis on a particular


point in a particular way, I think, is a question I'm not able to


answer at the moment. Has Liam Fox breached the


Ministerial Code? REPORTER: Are you the victim of a witch-hunt?


He returned from Paris and will face questions about the spirit and


limit of the code. In the section on advisors, it says the


Governments will publish every year the names of special advisors and


their pay bill. But when is an advisor a formal advisor and when


is he just a friend. He muddied his private and public interests in way


that was unacceptable. I suspect the biggest charge against him in


the end is just massive misjudgment in the way that he has handled his


affairs. I think there are errors and misjudgments have been made.


But they are not that serious that Liam should have to resign. I


actually think has done, not just a good job in the Ministry of Defence,


but he has gone over and above the call of duty here. When he came in


the budget of that department was a mess, but the huge number of vests


interest were there. He has made sense of the Ministry of Defence,


he's a tough guy and the right guy to be doing it. Critics believe he


has breached the spirit of the ministerial guideline, the latest


version of which was endorsed by the Prime Minister only last year.


David Cameron wrote then we must be transparent about what we do, above


improper influence. That, then, is a benchmark for Liam Fox and Adam


Werritty, his mysterious advisor. Could religious bigotry determine


the outcome of the next American presidential elections. Front


runner to knock Barack Obama out of the White House next year is Mitt


Romney, one-time guff nor of Massachusetts. It is not that, or


his - guff nor of Massachusetts. It is not that or his chis selled chin


that is causing problems, it is because he's a Mormon. Part of the


United States thinks being a Mormon is a cult. We will hear from the


Pastor who makes the accusation. First this report. Out of the


mountains they came, searching for Zion, and in the shadow of the


mountains of Utah, the Mormon found it. The church of the Latter Day


Saintss prospered, building a city near the great Salt Lake.


# I've got hope like a river And here, in Salt Lake City, the


church grew rich. But it was always different, other, separate some how,


from the country it inhabited. Now one of its own is bidding for the


presidency. But that otherness may yet drag his cadidacy down.


Mormon is a paradox, both very American, and yet well beyond the


American mainstream. Take the Great Trek, depicted partly here.


Believers 1300 miles, often in scenes of unimaginable hardship


from Illinois to Salt Lake City, in the mid-19th century, to go west,


to settle in the frontier, to flee religious persecution, what could


be a more American story. But to establish a theocracy that


flourished here briefly, and to practice polygamy, abandoned in


short order, that brought suspicion from fellow Americans. For Mitt


Romney that fear and suspicion became part of his downfall when he


ran for the nomination five years ago. He found himself continuously


being asked about his faith. He tried to tackle the questions head


on. There is one fundamental question about which I'm often


asked. What do I believe about Jesus Christ? I believe that Jesus


Christ is the Son of God, and the saviour of mankind. Two months


later he dropped out of the race. Now, four years on, he is the


Republican candidate that Democrats most fear. A politician of the


centre right who can reach out to disaffected independents and swing


voters. I believe in America, and I'm running for President of the


United States. But, again, it has become personal. Last weekend


Baptist Pastor, Robert Jeffress, advised a gathering of social


conservatives, not to vote for Romney, because in his words, he's


not Christian. I would call on governor Perry to repudiate the


sentiments and remarks made by that Pastor. Family friend, Jowers,


believes the issue has waned in the public consciousness, and second


time round Romney is a more rounded figure than the Mormon candidate of


2008. As long as people recognise him as the turn around guy for the


Olympics, as guff nor and his businesses, and so many other


aspects of him. Mormonism is every bit a part of him. I don't think he


will ever shy away from that. is a book out now that describes


Romney as springing from an historically racist religion, that


kind of stuff will keep coming. Yeah, certainly there is, Mormonism


is a place where some people will find political advantage, and they


will mit it. Would it be easier if he wasn't a Mormon? At this point


probably, yes. On the other hand, who knows where he would be without


his Mormon faith. On a warm Saturday evening in Utah,


two local universities go head-to- head. The game is a 65,000-seat


sell-out. The faithful are out in force. The sacred name of Jesus


Christ, amen. Brigham Young University, in blue,


are playing at home, they remain outsiders. The university was


established by and for Mormons. Is there a change in America in its


attitude towards Mormons, towards the Mormon religion? I think the


Mormon religion is getting more well known, people know more about


the church. As far as being mainstream, I think people still


consider us different, and not Christian. But I think they


appreciate our values and appreciate what we do for the


country. If Romney becomes the candidate, even the President, does


that change things forever, for Mormonism? You know I don't know if


it is going to change things forever, people will still have


their perceptions, they may think Romney is weird, if they think we


are weird. It will be, in the south, that


Romney's faith could face an early challenge. South Carolina holds the


nation's second primary. This Bible Belt state has proved Romney's


undoing before. One in four Americans say they are less likely


to vote for a Mormon, amongst white evangelicals, that rises to one in


three. A good showing here is critical for


Mitt Romney, as a northern candidate, Romney needs to show


that he can do well, here in the south. But South Carolina is


particularly dangerous territory for Romney. It was here in 2008


that he was uncertificate moanously crushed. It is - uncermoniously


crushed. It is home to the dark arts of political campaigning, and


home to an evangelical Christian comuep community with little time


for Mormons. Professor Mark Tompkins understands voting in the


Bible Belt, and how some Baptists view the Mormon faith. Do they see


it as heresy? Cult is the word that they use more often. It conjures up


the ideas of the cult leaders telling everybody else what to do,


they are making these unusual demands on people in the name of


faith. And the Mormon faith doesn't sound inconsistent with that story


at first blush. The wife of Texas governor, Rick Perry, Romney's only


real rival for the nomination comes to town to open a campaign office.


Mitt Romney's political opponents have enough policy differences with


him to ignore the religious question. But a representative from


up state, where the evangelical community is concentrated,


acknowledges the potential problem. I look at a person's record, and


governor Perry has simply got an outstanding record in the state of


Texas. For people faith is important? Absolutely it is. In


some areas. There are two things that people in South Carolina


learned a long time ago, if you are at a dinner protect, don't discuss


two subjects, religion and politics. # Till me meet


The Mormon journey has been a long one. Once outcast, feared and


derided for their beliefs and customs, they have risen to the top


of American business and politics. Now, one of their number is


reaching for the highest summit of all, his faith may well be his


undoing, but if he succeeds, another taboo will have fallen, and


an era of suspicion and ignorance will have come to a close. A short


while ago I spoke to Pastor Robert Jeffress from Dallas. I asked him


what his problem was with Mormonism? Mormonism has never been


considered a part of mainstream Christianity, it is not a problem


to Mormons, the only problem is he's trying to confuse it with


Christianity. Mormonism came 1800 years after Jesus Christ and the


church was established. It has its own human founder, Joseph Smith, it


has its own set of doctrines and book of revelation, The Book of


Mormon. When I tacked about Mormonism being a cult, I was


talking about a theological cult. Those attributes I mentioned


qualify it as a theological cult. I think Mormons are good people and


moral people, but Mormonism is not Christianity. What do you fear if a


Mormon got the presidency? I don't fear anything if a Mormon got the


presidency. The fact is, I have said that if the Republican


candidate end up being Mitt Romney, I probably would vote for him over


Barack Obama. But when I talked to the values voters summit in


Washington, and I introduced Governor Rick Perry, I was speaking


to evangelical Christians, Jeremy, and I said given the choice between


a competent Christian, and a competent non-Christian, Christians


often to prefer a competent Christian. And Mitt Romney is not a


Christian, although he says he believes in Jesus Christ? Well, I


mean lots of people believe in Jesus Christ, it is what you


believe about Jesus Christ that determines whether or not you are


going to heaven or hell when you die. The Bible says whoever calls


upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Jeremy, I don't think


anybody goes to heaven or hell in a group. We all go individual lie,


based on what have decided to do with Jesus Christ as our saviour. I


was saying if Romney is a Mormon and embraces the Mormon faith, that


is not Christianity. What is interesting is Mormons have said


all along that they were not a part of historic Christianity. They say


that the Christian church was corrupt from the time of the


apostles, until 1829 when Joseph Smith came, they have never


embraced historical Christianity by their own admission. What will


happen to Mr Romney when he dies? have no idea. If he has trusted in


Jesus Christ, the Jesus Christ of the Bible to save him from his sins,


he will be in heaven. If he has trusted some other God or no God,


he will spend ecertainty separated from God, like all of us will. The


Bible says all of us are sinners, not just Mormons, Catholics,


Baptists, we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God,


we all need Jesus Christ to be our saviour. Can you ever imagine


America tolerating an atheist President? Absolutely I can. I


think that's very possible. A Jew? Absolutely. A Muslim? I think that


could. A Muslim? Yes. All of these things are possible? Absolutely.


Because the article 6 of our constitution says there shall be no


religious test to hold public office. But I'm quick to remind


viewers across the pond here, that refers to Government cannot impose


a religious litmus test. It has nothing to say about private


citizens deciding to choose a candidate based on their religion.


We have every right to do so. In fact, the first Chief Justice of


our Supreme Court, John Jay, also the author of the Federalist Papers,


said, "we have the duty and the privilege in this Christian nation


to select and prefer Christians as our leaders". So the first Chief


Justice of the United States believed that it was not bigotted


to say it is right to prefer Christians over non-Christians.


Mr Jeffress thank you for joining us, thank you.


It's good to be with you, Jeremy. Well that's quite enough for one


day. I will give the editor of the day his nightly glass of milk, he's


confused, not as confused as Phoenix Jones, he used pepper spray


to try to break up what he thought was a street fight, but the police


say it was dancing. Look huge fight. We still have a residue of cold air


in Scotland and north-east England, chilly here first thing in the


morning, milder elsewhere underneath the cloud. For most of


us a cold start. The cloud lifting and thinning any rain petering out.


Some will see sunshine, predicting where, that is the trick. It looks


cloudy across northern England but dryer in the afternoon. Not as


chilly as today. Brightening up throughout the afternoon, across


East Anglia, not through the Midland or the south-east of


England, but through the West Country that could be a favoured


spot to see sunshine in the afternoon. For most of the day


Devon and Cornwall could be cloudy, drizzle up for a while over the


moors. For Wales the north coast and the marshes could see sunshine


during the afternoon. It should be dry as well, it has been a much


better day in Northern Ireland. Again it should be dry tomorrow,


sunshine near the north coast. Sunny spells around the Moray Frith,


and Aberdeenshire, it might brighten up in the central belt.


Not as cold as it has been. Temperatures rising over the next


few days to 17 degrees in Edinburgh. Further south, we will see a lot of


cloud on Thursday, not much sunshine, better chance of seeing


sunshine I think on Friday, as the cloud begins to break up as we


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