07/11/2011 Newsnight


07/11/2011

As Italian government borrowing rates hit a euro-era high, could Silvio Berlusconi become the next leader forced out of office by the euro crisis? Presented by Jeremy Paxman.


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Not content with hacking the phones of the families of murder victims,

:00:08.:00:11.

News International also put under surveillance the lawyers seeking

:00:11.:00:15.

redress for those invasions of privacy.

:00:15.:00:19.

The two solicitors responsible for most of the cases against the

:00:19.:00:23.

disgraced media organisation, as well as their relatives, were

:00:23.:00:30.

secretly filmed and followed by private zebgtives. The ambition -

:00:30.:00:34.

zebgtives. The ambition? To discredit them.

:00:34.:00:39.

I was asked to do the work, I was not to stop doing the work, only

:00:39.:00:43.

when the News of the World closed. We will hear from one of the

:00:43.:00:48.

detectives in the cross hairs. We will hear how the News of the World

:00:48.:00:53.

tried to shield the Prime Minister's then spin doctor from

:00:53.:00:57.

any fall-out.The Government who said it would be tough on

:00:57.:01:00.

immigration found itself letting any Tom Dick or Harry into the

:01:00.:01:03.

country. Who killed off the political career

:01:03.:01:06.

of the latest Papandreou to leave Greece. A member of his cabinet

:01:06.:01:12.

might know the answer. And since the days of exorism and

:01:12.:01:18.

bedlem, we have been failing to cure mental illness, is medical

:01:18.:01:22.

science on the cusp of offering serious new hope. We are really

:01:22.:01:26.

facing a tipping point here in where we are in the research on

:01:26.:01:36.

mental illness. If it wasn't true it would take

:01:36.:01:41.

some believing, but it is true, and News of the World admit it is true.

:01:41.:01:45.

The News of the World hired a private detective to investigate

:01:45.:01:50.

lawyers representing people who had been hacked by the News of the

:01:50.:01:53.

World. This was not something that happened ages ago, but very

:01:53.:01:58.

recently. Its implications reach into Downing Street.

:01:58.:02:02.

It must have seemed the most ordinary days for the residents of

:02:02.:02:07.

this house in north Manchester last year, unknown to them they were the

:02:07.:02:12.

tart of covert surveillance. - target of covert surveillance. They

:02:12.:02:16.

were followed and filmed by a private detective in a nearby car,

:02:16.:02:20.

every move was scrutinised, they had no idea. A quick stop at Tescos,

:02:20.:02:23.

then back home, all captured on film, they were trailed every step

:02:23.:02:27.

of the way. It is terrifying to think that someone can be watching

:02:27.:02:30.

you, following you around doing your every day things and you

:02:30.:02:33.

haven't a clue they are there. If it happened then it could be

:02:33.:02:36.

happening now, I'm very scared and nervous now when I go out of the

:02:36.:02:39.

house. I'm looking around and seeing if anyone is there.

:02:39.:02:43.

woman filmed was the former wife of Mark Lewis, Manchester-based

:02:43.:02:47.

solicitor, who is leading the way in suing News of the World and its

:02:47.:02:51.

publishers for hacking phones. Mark Lewis, on the right, with

:02:51.:02:55.

papers in his hand, was become ago serious threat to Rupert Murdoch's

:02:55.:03:02.

media empire. In 2008, two years before the surveillance on his

:03:02.:03:06.

family, newsgroup paid one of his clients more than �500,000 in an

:03:06.:03:11.

out of court settlement. It looked like hush money to stop the wider

:03:11.:03:16.

story of phone hacking coming out. Newsnight has learned the identity

:03:16.:03:20.

of the private investigator who traileded Mark Lewis's family. He

:03:20.:03:24.

is called Derek Webb, a former policeman with 14 years of

:03:24.:03:29.

surveillance under his belt. He ran a company called Silent Shadow,

:03:29.:03:35.

earlier in the year he was asked by News of the World to trail

:03:35.:03:42.

Charlotte Harris and Mark Lewis. Charlotte Harris was also targeted

:03:42.:03:44.

for surveillance, News of the World believed she was having an affair.

:03:44.:03:48.

When they named the other party, they wanted me to go to his address

:03:48.:03:52.

the first night. I went to his address. It was clear he wasn't

:03:52.:03:59.

living there. So they then told me the two addresses which were

:03:59.:04:01.

solicitors firms. They basically gave me the opportunity of which

:04:01.:04:07.

one I wanted to do, but to do both of them to try to see where they

:04:07.:04:11.

would meet up. We don't know who authorised this specific

:04:11.:04:16.

surveillance operation against Mark Lewis's family. But this dossier of

:04:16.:04:20.

documents obtained by Newsnight shows on other occasions the idea

:04:20.:04:23.

of using surveillance against the two solicitors was carefully

:04:23.:04:27.

discussed. What these documents show is the idea of using private

:04:27.:04:30.

detectives to dig around into their personal lives was discussed at a

:04:30.:04:35.

very high level. But why? These documents were passed by newsgroup

:04:35.:04:39.

to the Metropolitan Police as part of their investigation into phone

:04:40.:04:45.

hacking. In return they released them to Mark Lewis late last week.

:04:45.:04:52.

Many are e-mails from the News of the World - News Corporation

:04:52.:05:02.
:05:02.:05:14.

solicitors. I'm devastated on many level, to

:05:14.:05:18.

follow my teenage daughter is nothing short of sick.

:05:18.:05:21.

documents show that News Group newspapers showed the solicitors

:05:21.:05:24.

were in a relationship and passing confidential information to each

:05:24.:05:28.

other to help with new phone hacking cases and they were looking

:05:28.:05:31.

for evidence. Farrer & Co commissioned a firm of private

:05:31.:05:35.

detectives to look into their backgrounds. On the 6th of May last

:05:35.:05:45.
:05:45.:05:50.

year, Julian Pike from Farrer & Co The firm of private detectives did

:05:50.:05:54.

not carry out surveillance work as far as we know, but they did write

:05:54.:05:58.

a report seen by Newsnight, which provided a lot of detail about the

:05:58.:06:04.

perm lives of Charlotte Harris and Mark Lewis. - personal lives of

:06:04.:06:09.

Charlotte Harris and Mark Lewis. There is no evidence that Farrer &

:06:09.:06:13.

Co commissioned the work, but we know News of the World did.

:06:13.:06:17.

Many say the tactic was indefensible. News International

:06:17.:06:27.
:06:27.:06:33.

News Group's lawyers, Farrer & Co, did not instruct Derek Webb to

:06:33.:06:37.

carry out any surveillance, we wanted to ask them about the e-mail

:06:38.:06:40.

that showed they were considering surveillance. They said they

:06:40.:06:44.

couldn't comment on the matters without their client's permission,

:06:44.:06:48.

which they don't have. There is one wrinkle, it involves the former

:06:48.:06:55.

press spokesman Andy Coulsen who resigned as editor of news over

:06:55.:06:58.

phone hacking. It is thought that even after he left, his laurbs led

:06:58.:07:01.

by the Murdoch family, were sensitive about damaging his work

:07:01.:07:04.

with David Cameron around the election time. At a meeting called

:07:04.:07:09.

to discuss phone hacking six days after the election, News Group's

:07:09.:07:12.

lawyer at Farrer & Co stated he had been instructed not to do anything

:07:12.:07:17.

for three or four weeks to prevent further leaks around the election,

:07:17.:07:23.

because of the inevitable take on Andy Coulsen. Although the

:07:23.:07:33.
:07:33.:07:36.

It seems even after he had left News of the World, Rupert Murdoch's

:07:36.:07:39.

former editor was still receiving protection from his old company.

:07:39.:07:45.

Just before we came on air I spoke to Tom Watson MP, a member of the

:07:45.:07:49.

committee investigating the scandal also to Mark Lewis, the lawyer

:07:49.:07:53.

whose family was under surveillance. Mark Lewis, were you aware that you

:07:53.:07:57.

were under surveillance? I wasn't aware of the fact, and it wouldn't

:07:57.:08:02.

have occurred to me, I wouldn't think anyone would stoop that low.

:08:02.:08:06.

Were you aware your family was? That is even worse, you know. It

:08:06.:08:11.

never occurred to me. I have my job in my office, I'm in the court, my

:08:11.:08:15.

family are well out of it. And quite rightly are out of it.

:08:15.:08:21.

what does it feel like to know you were being spied on? It is horrific,

:08:21.:08:25.

it was more horrific that it was my family, my children, my daughters,

:08:25.:08:32.

were being infiltrated, that people were watching them, taking pictures

:08:32.:08:37.

of them. It shouldn't happen, it just shouldn't happen. Tom Watson,

:08:37.:08:41.

how significant is this discovery? I think it is very significant. You

:08:41.:08:51.
:08:51.:08:55.

know, back in the summer when we interviewed James Murdoch he said

:08:55.:09:00.

the main response to phone hacking was in 2010, now we see the hiring

:09:00.:09:06.

of private detectives to besmirch those helping the phone hacking

:09:06.:09:10.

victims. So the timing is important? It shows an utterly

:09:10.:09:14.

relentless organisation, highly politic sized who would stop at

:09:14.:09:17.

nothing to try to cover this case up. It is another revelation that

:09:17.:09:22.

will shock people when they get to know what it means. What of the

:09:22.:09:27.

remarks that indicate that there was concern about any reflection

:09:27.:09:30.

upon Andy Coulsen, David Cameron's spin doctor? I think for the

:09:30.:09:35.

political world that is clearly the most significant part of this, it

:09:35.:09:38.

shows the company were highly politicised, they were trying to

:09:38.:09:41.

close this case down, but they were also desperate to protect their man

:09:41.:09:45.

at the heart of Government. This was at the time of the coalition

:09:45.:09:50.

talks. Andy Coulsen was destined for a great and powerful job at the

:09:50.:09:55.

heart of Government, and he got there.

:09:55.:10:00.

How unusual is it, Mark, for solicitors to employ or be involved,

:10:00.:10:05.

or have knowledge of the workings of private detectives? There is a

:10:05.:10:10.

different matter between playing the ball and playing the man. You

:10:10.:10:14.

might be investigating an have reason to investigate things that

:10:14.:10:18.

are happening amongst the clients, that if it was proper to make

:10:18.:10:22.

inquiries, then you would do that. But to investigate the other side's

:10:22.:10:27.

lawyer, I have never come across that ever before. You have never

:10:27.:10:31.

come across that? Never. You shouldn't do that, lawyers should

:10:31.:10:35.

not be investigating other lawyers. Why not? It is fundamental to the

:10:35.:10:39.

principle of law. For being lawyer we are meant to be able to

:10:39.:10:43.

represent our client without fear for favour. But people are actually

:10:43.:10:48.

trying to cause you to have fear. People shouldn't be looking at my

:10:48.:10:52.

home address. People shouldn't be following my former wife, following

:10:52.:10:55.

my children. People shouldn't be looking at me to see what I did in

:10:55.:11:00.

my private life. Nothing about my private life could possibly have

:11:00.:11:02.

affected anything that I was doing at work.

:11:02.:11:06.

Well, you are familiar with what they were suggesting, we can't go

:11:06.:11:11.

into the details of it, but you are aware of what they are suggesting?

:11:11.:11:15.

I'm aware. Even if you take everything that they were trying to

:11:15.:11:20.

suggest, even if they had been able to prove anything, it made not one

:11:20.:11:25.

jot of difference to the whole case or anything. They couldn't t

:11:25.:11:28.

wouldn't make any difference. The only thing that they could do with

:11:28.:11:33.

that, was to try to use it to some sort of advantage to either

:11:33.:11:37.

intimidate me personally, or to stop me representing my client

:11:37.:11:42.

properly. They were playing the man. James Murdoch is due to be

:11:42.:11:45.

appearing before your committee again on Thursday. Does it change

:11:45.:11:50.

what you are going to ask him? think he's definitely going to have

:11:50.:11:54.

to explain why when he said the company would get to the bottom of

:11:54.:12:00.

the story the response was to hire private investigators to follow

:12:00.:12:04.

lawyers around, I would imagine he would want to answer that before

:12:04.:12:07.

the committee. He has serious questions to answer, because his

:12:07.:12:09.

original testimony has been not just contradicted by the former

:12:09.:12:13.

editor of the News of the World, but Tom Crone, the in-house lawyer,

:12:13.:12:17.

I'm sure we will want to go into great detail about how his

:12:17.:12:21.

recollection of the events delivers from a number of people who work

:12:21.:12:26.

for him. This whole fair is getting murkier and murkier? If I'm honest

:12:26.:12:30.

with you, I think this organisation is rotten to the core, and it needs

:12:30.:12:34.

dealing with. This revelation tonight, shocking though it is, is

:12:34.:12:41.

another examine of how we have not got to the facts, even now. They

:12:41.:12:47.

themselves acknowledge this was deeply inappropriate behave or, -

:12:47.:12:51.

behaviour, they have shut down the News of the World, they have

:12:51.:12:58.

changed? I heard the Murdochs telling lawyers in Los Angeles they

:12:58.:13:05.

would leave no stone unturned, what we now know they meant is we would

:13:05.:13:11.

hire private investigators to snoop on the lawyers representing the

:13:11.:13:19.

victims, including Milly Dowler's parents' lawyers. I don't think

:13:19.:13:22.

shareholders would want to hear that. These facts have been dragged

:13:22.:13:28.

out over weeks. To be fair, he said after these events? One would

:13:28.:13:31.

imagine given his personal interest in uncovering the truth, he would

:13:31.:13:36.

now know this event had taken place and at his AGM two weeks ago he

:13:36.:13:40.

would be in full knowledge that plieft investigators had been hired

:13:40.:13:45.

to snoop on solicitors. He either chose not the shareholder, or asked

:13:45.:13:49.

the right questions to get to the facts. Either way he has some

:13:49.:13:52.

explaining do. Where do you think it leaves things? There is all

:13:52.:13:58.

sorts of interesting aspects in the timing, for example. They say no

:13:58.:14:04.

current executives were involved in it, but the paper, the newspaper

:14:04.:14:07.

had the reports. He was holding on to them a long time after former

:14:08.:14:10.

executives have left, and they chose to do nothing.

:14:10.:14:17.

Thank you very much. Tomorrow, Richard Watson has some

:14:17.:14:19.

extraordinary revelations on surveillance ordered by the News of

:14:19.:14:24.

the World, over many years. Now, if you are a criminal,

:14:24.:14:28.

terrorist, or illegal immigrant intepbtd on getting into Britain,

:14:28.:14:31.

this summer - intent on getting into Britain, this summer was the

:14:31.:14:35.

time to do it. It is possible the only people who slipped into the

:14:35.:14:40.

country were visiting church choirs. We don't know, nobody knows what

:14:41.:14:44.

happened when border controls were relaxed this summer. This was not

:14:44.:14:48.

what voters understood the Conservatives to mean when they

:14:48.:14:51.

promised to get tough on illegal immigration. But the Prime Minister,

:14:51.:14:55.

apparently, has total confidence in the Home Secretary, because, she

:14:55.:14:59.

hadn't a clue what was going on! There aren't many more important

:14:59.:15:03.

functions of Government than defending our borders, but, it

:15:03.:15:10.

appears, to ease queue, at times, thorough passport checks had been

:15:10.:15:20.
:15:20.:15:20.

all but abandoned. Passport controllers are supposed to scan

:15:20.:15:25.

passport buy and biometrics, and compare it to the warnings index.

:15:25.:15:28.

Over large parts of the summer, the Home Secretary told the Commons

:15:28.:15:33.

neither happened. The border agency, she said, had taken a limited pilot

:15:33.:15:38.

scheme to relax checks on EU arrivals, and extended it, without

:15:38.:15:41.

ministerial approval. I did not give my consent or authorisation

:15:41.:15:48.

for any of these decisions. Indeed, indeed, I told officials explicitly

:15:48.:15:54.

that the pilot was to go no further than we had agreed. As a result of

:15:54.:15:58.

these unauthorised actions, we will never know how many people entered

:15:58.:16:01.

the country who should have been prevented from doing so after being

:16:01.:16:06.

flagged by the warnings indecision. Newsnight has spoken to a serving

:16:06.:16:09.

border force official here at Heathrow. He has told us at the

:16:09.:16:14.

start of the summer there were so few staff on duty, that the whole

:16:14.:16:19.

passport control system was, "chaotic and unworkable". The order,

:16:19.:16:23.

he says, therefore, came down, relax controls, speed the queues

:16:23.:16:29.

through. However, our informant tells us that relaxation actually

:16:29.:16:33.

went far beyond what the Home Secretary has so far detailed.

:16:33.:16:43.
:16:43.:17:18.

So why was the border agency under such apparent strain? Well,

:17:18.:17:23.

according to the PCS union, which represents many officers, too many

:17:23.:17:27.

posts have been cut. The agency is having to find savings of 20% over

:17:27.:17:33.

the next four years. Our source told us that on some occasions, 600

:17:33.:17:37.

people were queuing for just two or three officers on duty. Had they

:17:37.:17:41.

not sped them through, people could have been waiting for two or three

:17:41.:17:44.

hours. Our source told us that the

:17:44.:17:54.
:17:54.:18:08.

instruction to relax controls was Our informant's belief that this

:18:08.:18:14.

wasn't simply a local response to local backlogs and problems here at

:18:14.:18:18.

Heathrow, seems to be shared bit Home Office. Not only has the

:18:18.:18:21.

director of border force operations here at Heathrow been suspended,

:18:21.:18:25.

but his regional boss has been suspended, and the UK head of

:18:25.:18:29.

border force has been suspended. The question is, does this scandal

:18:29.:18:35.

go any higher? Labour says ministers should

:18:35.:18:40.

certainly have known what was going on at the UK Border Agency? How on

:18:40.:18:46.

earth did ministers not know about this? How on earth could there be

:18:46.:18:50.

continual complaints, from staff, for months, and get either the

:18:50.:18:54.

immigration minister, nor the Home Secretary, knew what on earth was

:18:54.:18:59.

going on. At best they were deeply out-of-touch, at worse they were

:18:59.:19:02.

complicit in a loss of control at our borders.

:19:02.:19:07.

Britain's border problems have a long history. Way back in 2006, the

:19:07.:19:12.

then Home Secretary, John Reid, described the Immigration and

:19:12.:19:16.

Nationality Directorate as not fit for purpose. After more than a

:19:16.:19:19.

thousand foreign prisoners were released without being considered

:19:19.:19:23.

for deportation. As a result the IND was broken up, and the UK

:19:23.:19:30.

Border Agency formed, in April 2008. It too has been beset by critical

:19:30.:19:34.

reports. Just this month the Home Affairs Select Committee reported

:19:34.:19:39.

that 14,000 asylum and immigration cases had been dumped in an archive.

:19:39.:19:45.

We simply can't go on running an Immigration Service, with an agency

:19:45.:19:48.

whose senior officials appear to be acting in this way. Someone has

:19:48.:19:54.

really got to say it is time to have a fundamental root and branch

:19:54.:19:58.

look at the UK Border Agency, so that it is fit for purpose.

:19:58.:20:02.

Immigration scandals have claimed many other ministers in the past.

:20:02.:20:06.

The current Home Secretary isn't facing calls to resign, but,

:20:06.:20:11.

neither is she completely in the clear. The Home Office didn't want

:20:11.:20:16.

to put any ministers up tonight, but we have our very own David

:20:16.:20:19.

Grossman here, what has Theresa May got to explain? Tomorrow she's

:20:19.:20:24.

appearing in front of MPs and the Home Affairs Select Committee, she

:20:24.:20:27.

will be answering questions, not specifically on this, but MPs

:20:27.:20:30.

expect to be able to raise the matters. It is simple, in the

:20:30.:20:34.

Commons we heard her say emphatically she didn't authorise

:20:34.:20:39.

any relaxation, beyond the limited pilot, for EU citizens. Yet in the

:20:39.:20:43.

same Commons exchange we heart Yvette Cooper, the shadow Home

:20:43.:20:49.

Secretary, saying they had seen the interim instructions from July 2011,

:20:49.:20:53.

which said, detailing those relaxations for EU citizens, went

:20:53.:20:57.

on to say, if for whatever reason it is considered necessary to take

:20:57.:21:03.

further measures, local managers must escalate to the border force

:21:03.:21:07.

duty director to seek authority for their proposed action. If you want

:21:07.:21:10.

to go furbgts just escalate it within the border force and it is

:21:10.:21:15.

OK. Labour say it is unthinkable that ministers did not sign off on

:21:15.:21:17.

these interim operational instructions and if they didn't,

:21:17.:21:22.

when did they become aware of them, and why didn't they scream blue

:21:22.:21:25.

murder at the UK Border Agency when they found out what they were

:21:25.:21:29.

writing to staff. Where does this go next? I think among the MPs I

:21:29.:21:36.

have been speaking to there is an exasperation that political

:21:36.:21:39.

oversight by arms length agencies doing important jobs like guarding

:21:39.:21:44.

borders is not getting done. There will be a re-push, they have been

:21:44.:21:48.

going on about it for a long time, that Commons select committee

:21:48.:21:51.

should have the right to have confirmation hearings for the head

:21:51.:22:01.
:22:01.:22:03.

of these very important agencies. Seeing 23 of the inter- the drama

:22:03.:22:07.

that is the Greek crisis, the Prime Minister resigned and the country

:22:07.:22:11.

says can we have more money. The Italian Prime Minister doesn't

:22:11.:22:15.

resign, and his country finds it costs more to borrow from banks.

:22:15.:22:19.

Finance ministers from the less feckless and bankrupt countries

:22:19.:22:28.

look on and wonder how much longer can catastrophy be avoided.

:22:28.:22:36.

Here in Athens, most respectable cemetaries - here in Athens' most

:22:36.:22:39.

respectable cemetery lie fathers and grandfathers, including the

:22:39.:22:45.

grandfather of the man who must stand out of the way, George

:22:45.:22:49.

Papandreou Junior, combined membership of this political clan,

:22:49.:22:53.

with an education so foreign it left him speaking English better

:22:53.:22:58.

than Greek. With all those gifts it was broadly believed by the urban

:22:58.:23:02.

middle-class that George possessed the qualities and values that were

:23:02.:23:06.

necessary to update and modernise the Socialist Party, which had

:23:06.:23:10.

followed a very, very populist model under his father, during the

:23:10.:23:16.

1980s. But George some how failed to effect this turn around. In any

:23:16.:23:20.

case, he failed to convince people he had a plan, that was broadly

:23:20.:23:24.

consistent with humanitarian and socialist, political ideology. And

:23:24.:23:29.

he failed to convince Europe that he had a plan to bring Greece out

:23:29.:23:35.

of chronic debt. George Papandreou embodies too many

:23:36.:23:40.

contradictions. Greeks don't mind he's a socialist from a great

:23:40.:23:43.

political dynasty. It is more that the very westernised nature of his

:23:44.:23:48.

education, manners and speech, which once made him so acceptable

:23:48.:23:52.

to an element of the middle-class here, and to the outside world,

:23:52.:23:58.

have now led him to be denounced, as distinctly unGreek.

:23:58.:24:02.

Mr Papandreou, having first disappointed the Greeks, had the

:24:02.:24:07.

French and Germans turn on him last week. Then they became a Dead Man

:24:07.:24:11.

Walking. The mauling areceived at Cannes,

:24:11.:24:17.

was a bruising illustration of now power realities, and indeed, of

:24:17.:24:23.

German leadership. We are seeing German leadership, dressed up as

:24:23.:24:26.

Franco-German leadership. President Sarkozy is very worried about the

:24:26.:24:29.

economic gap between France and Germany, the fact that the German

:24:29.:24:33.

economy is performing considerably better, and France has to pay more

:24:33.:24:37.

than a percentage point more than Germany to borrow these days. This

:24:37.:24:45.

worries the French. They see that Germany is very much the head of

:24:45.:24:48.

the two. That is why the French are hugging the Germans close, and

:24:48.:24:52.

accepting most of what the Germans want in terms of sorting out the

:24:52.:24:57.

euro mess. Negotiations continued today to form a Greek national

:24:57.:25:00.

unity Government, capable of agreeing to the EU's price for its

:25:00.:25:05.

bailout. If they don't, German and European officials insist, the deal

:25:05.:25:08.

is off. I think it is important that

:25:08.:25:14.

everyone sticks to the deal. I think that the summit has decided

:25:14.:25:21.

an agreement for this next round from the old agreement, but for the

:25:21.:25:25.

new agreement. It must be a coherent policy. You cannot take

:25:25.:25:28.

part of the programme and skip the rest, therefore, we have to explain

:25:29.:25:33.

also to our people, in our countries, that this is a project

:25:33.:25:37.

which has a chance to succeed. Today, attention turned to Italy,

:25:38.:25:42.

where the rate at which the Government borrows reached a new

:25:42.:25:47.

peak, 6.68%. The stock market rose briefly this

:25:47.:25:52.

morning, on reports their Prime Minister was about to step down.

:25:52.:25:56.

That gave some indication of the degree to which Mr Berlusconi

:25:56.:25:59.

himself is now seen as an obstacle, and the pressure is building on his

:26:00.:26:03.

country. I think Berlusconi can't last more

:26:04.:26:07.

than another few days. It is absolutely essential he's no longer

:26:07.:26:14.

running the country. The best option for Italy is President

:26:14.:26:18.

Palitano calls on a cross-party coalition of senior figures from

:26:18.:26:23.

left and right, including respectable men, such as Mario

:26:23.:26:26.

Monti, the former European Commissioner, and the former centre

:26:26.:26:29.

left Prime Minister, and others from the right and left, and gets

:26:30.:26:33.

them to form a Government of national salvation.

:26:33.:26:38.

It may be too early to confine Mr Berlusconi to the political

:26:38.:26:43.

graveyard. But Italy's crisis could become the eurozone's most severe

:26:43.:26:48.

yet. In the events of the last few days, it has been demonstrated the

:26:48.:26:52.

determination of Germany, in particular, to defend the currency.

:26:52.:26:55.

The Greek culture and tourism minister was in London today,

:26:55.:26:58.

drumming up punters to visit his country, and maybe help to balance

:26:58.:27:03.

the books a little bit while they are there. It could be a tough sell,

:27:03.:27:10.

he's here now. Are you still tourism minister? I still am.

:27:10.:27:14.

you be tomorrow? It is a question I have been asked every interview

:27:14.:27:19.

today. Until the Government resigns this is my post, and I will be

:27:19.:27:23.

representing my country and doing my best at it. Do you think the

:27:23.:27:27.

Germans have done you a favour by forcing your Prime Minister to

:27:27.:27:30.

resign and have a new Government of National Unity? I think the series

:27:30.:27:35.

of events that have led us here have been a lot more complicated

:27:35.:27:38.

than just asking George Papandreou to resign. What we have seen in the

:27:38.:27:43.

past few weeks is an accumulation of pressures, that hoos brought us

:27:44.:27:47.

to this place. The Germans - brought us to this place.

:27:47.:27:50.

Germans are calling the shoots and it is right because they are paying

:27:50.:27:53.

your bills? They are putting up a lot of the money that is

:27:53.:27:57.

guarnteeing the process as we go along. The Germans have had a huge

:27:57.:28:01.

say in this. But at the end of the day it is about the eurozone, and

:28:01.:28:05.

how that survives through this turmoil. I have to remind you that

:28:05.:28:09.

something most people don't realise is that the European has not been

:28:09.:28:14.

monitoring the Greek economy since 2009, when we saw the numbers

:28:15.:28:18.

coming out. They have been there since 2004. They made the mistake

:28:18.:28:22.

of trusting the Greek Government, and the Greek Government lied them-

:28:22.:28:26.

to-them, not once but twice? It was the previous Greek Government that

:28:26.:28:32.

brought them in. Saying we can't be trusted, you come and have a look?

:28:32.:28:35.

That is not what happened, what happened is they said we want to

:28:35.:28:39.

make sure. The previous Government did this, they said come in here

:28:39.:28:44.

and look at the numbers with us, so we have a pretty good picture of

:28:44.:28:48.

what the situation was like. Five years down the road, is for getting

:28:48.:28:53.

about the politicians for a second, is the debt was a lot bigger than

:28:53.:28:58.

was reported in that period. The question I'm putting on the table

:28:58.:29:04.

is, did the European Union know the real numbers? And did not disclose

:29:04.:29:07.

them. Or they did not know the numbers, in which case the

:29:07.:29:11.

monitoring was less. This isn't the fault of the rest of the European

:29:11.:29:16.

Union, it is the fault of the Greeks. Why is it the Greeks are so

:29:16.:29:19.

dishonest? That is an accusation that I would never accept. It is

:29:19.:29:23.

like saying right now because you have a particular scandal in

:29:23.:29:27.

British press that the British journalists are not up to the task.

:29:27.:29:30.

Your Government lied about your public finance, 95% of your

:29:30.:29:34.

population claimed to have an income of 30,000 euro as year or

:29:34.:29:38.

less, there was a survey of swimming pools in Greek, 324 people

:29:38.:29:43.

declared they have a swimming pool, the aerial survey shows 17,000,

:29:43.:29:48.

this is ram pant dishonesty from top to bottom? It is very easy to

:29:48.:29:51.

put labels on things. What would you call it? The most difficult

:29:51.:29:58.

thing to do is change the situation we have now and move it forward. We

:29:58.:30:01.

can say what happened and put our hands up in the air, that don't

:30:01.:30:06.

solve a situation. What we need to do now is create the kind of

:30:06.:30:11.

Government that can be trusted, and create the completely different

:30:11.:30:14.

relations with the people so things can move forward. It will not

:30:15.:30:18.

happen as long as there is this relationship that has been built in

:30:18.:30:23.

the past. Do you feel humiliated in any sense that the Germans have

:30:23.:30:27.

posed a new Government upon you? don't look at it as a relationship

:30:27.:30:32.

with one-nation, I say it in a completely different way. I say

:30:32.:30:36.

what Greeks are facing up to now, is the reality of the situation

:30:36.:30:40.

being built over the years. We are doing that in a very condensed

:30:40.:30:45.

period of time. Most trouble that we are in has been caused by

:30:45.:30:49.

several things that have happened wrongly in the past. Certainly in

:30:49.:30:52.

two years we are called on to correct all these things together.

:30:52.:30:55.

It is a tremendous amount of pressure. I think the real people

:30:55.:30:59.

we need to answer to is ourselves, and to make sure that the path

:30:59.:31:04.

ahead is one that we're proud of. You behaved as many people might

:31:04.:31:08.

behaved when offered free money? There was a lot of free money. That

:31:08.:31:17.

is not only a case with Greece. Part of the problem is what

:31:17.:31:20.

happened with the money is even the private sector was very much bound

:31:20.:31:24.

to the public sector. The relationship there became more and

:31:24.:31:29.

more tangled as time went by, also because of corruption. This created

:31:29.:31:32.

an economy that was not competitive. In order to get Greece back on

:31:32.:31:36.

track, we need to get the economy back to being competitive and to be

:31:36.:31:39.

able to reach out, look out and compete with the best that there is

:31:39.:31:43.

out in the world. This is not going to happen from one day to the next.

:31:43.:31:47.

And I would say that if I were to describe what is happening in

:31:47.:31:49.

Greece right now, you have one track, which has to do with the

:31:49.:31:54.

debt and the deficit. The other track has to do with the structural

:31:54.:31:58.

changes. Everybody is paying attention to the debt and the

:31:58.:32:03.

deficit, all measures being looked at is in order to lower them, the

:32:03.:32:07.

real reality is the structural changes need to be done to get

:32:07.:32:11.

Greece to become a development al economy again.

:32:11.:32:15.

- developing economy again. A bit of unalloyed good news, at some

:32:15.:32:19.

point of our lives, very large numbers of us will suffer from some

:32:19.:32:24.

form of mental illness. Unlike many physical conditions, the treatment

:32:24.:32:34.
:32:34.:32:34.

is often imprecise, hit and miss, trial and error. This week Susan

:32:34.:32:39.

Wats brings news about promises of a revolution in the way mental

:32:39.:32:46.

illness is treated, it may promise life over death. This film contains

:32:46.:32:56.
:32:56.:33:13.

The statistics are shocking. One in four of us will suffer some form of

:33:13.:33:18.

mental illness during our lifetime, mental I will nest costs life, one

:33:18.:33:26.

in six people with bye polar or other mental illnesses will kill

:33:26.:33:30.

themselves. Treatments sometimes work, sometimes not, and in the

:33:30.:33:33.

more severe cases we are still locking people up. But now,

:33:33.:33:37.

scientists think we are on the verge of a revolution. We are

:33:37.:33:43.

really facing a tipping point here in where we are on the research in

:33:44.:33:48.

mental illness. Answers are being found, by delving deep inside the

:33:48.:33:58.
:33:58.:34:08.

My first major suicide attempt was in 1995. It is like this black hole.

:34:08.:34:14.

You convince your brain that you would be better off dead. Because

:34:14.:34:24.
:34:24.:34:27.

that darkness is ...it is all encompassing.

:34:27.:34:31.

Neil Tinning, otherwise known as Twink, has been living with bye

:34:31.:34:35.

polar disorder for most of his life, the drugs help him, but he never

:34:35.:34:40.

knows when he might have another serious or potentially deadly

:34:40.:34:44.

episode. The problem of a sufferer such as myself, you are introduced

:34:44.:34:48.

to a new medication regime, and you always get that plasseel seeb bow

:34:48.:34:52.

effect, you think this time - placebo effect, you think this time

:34:52.:34:56.

it is going to work, and four weeks down the road, after you get the he

:34:56.:34:59.

havecy of the medication, and it doesn't work, and you have to come

:34:59.:35:03.

off that medication, slowly, because you can't do anything

:35:03.:35:09.

sudden, because that could push you into an episode, other meds and

:35:09.:35:13.

combinations, 16 years down the line, after starting medication, I

:35:13.:35:18.

have got to a place where I'm relatively stable, but I always

:35:18.:35:21.

hate saying that, because I never know what's going to happen

:35:21.:35:30.

tomorrow. There could be hope for people like Twink, scientists

:35:30.:35:34.

looking at mental disorders, such as serious depression, now have

:35:34.:35:38.

access to powerful new tools, made possible by advances in science and

:35:38.:35:41.

technology. By understanding the mechanisms of the brain, they are

:35:41.:35:46.

gaining an insight into our minds. Changing what happens in the clinic.

:35:47.:35:51.

And this is what it is all about, the human brain. This one came from

:35:52.:35:56.

a healthy adult female. Scientists are beginning to understand how the

:35:56.:36:02.

brain works, and what makes it go wrong.

:36:02.:36:08.

This is one of the key technologies given scientists that fresh insight.

:36:08.:36:11.

The radiographer, or clinician will inject the subject, and one would

:36:11.:36:16.

record the measurements that would emanate from the subject over a

:36:16.:36:21.

period of, maybe for these particular image, maybe an hour or

:36:21.:36:25.

so. Using the latest in brain scans, scientists have honed in on one

:36:25.:36:29.

region of the brain that becomes overactive in depression. It is

:36:29.:36:33.

called area 25. It means they can actually see what's going wrong and

:36:33.:36:37.

which drugs work best. Already these scanning technologies

:36:38.:36:42.

are having a real impact, they could significantly improve the way

:36:42.:36:47.

patients are treated. In ground-breaking research, seen

:36:47.:36:51.

by Newsnight, a London team taught computer software to recognise

:36:51.:36:55.

patterns in brain images. Those patterns predict which patients

:36:55.:37:00.

will go on to develop the most serious forms of psychosis. With

:37:00.:37:04.

this work we are showing that when people come to us w a first episode

:37:04.:37:08.

of psychosis, we can, in fact, already distinguish the people that

:37:08.:37:14.

will do better from the people who will have more severe illnesses.

:37:14.:37:19.

This will allow us to start I thising of using a different -

:37:19.:37:21.

thinking of using a different treatment for these different

:37:21.:37:31.
:37:31.:37:31.

groups of people. It is Provera Kapur's job to analyse the results

:37:31.:37:36.

- Professor Kapur's job to analyse the results. Our research has been

:37:36.:37:42.

at a low level. A psychiatrist will look at your problems more deeply.

:37:42.:37:46.

But largely based on what your family members say about the

:37:46.:37:50.

condition, they would have to make up their mind about the diagnosis.

:37:50.:37:54.

There was no aid from clinical, laboratory tests or blood tests, in

:37:54.:37:59.

a way that has been there for the last 50 years in the rest of

:37:59.:38:02.

medicine. This is the first opportunity to take psychiatric

:38:02.:38:08.

dying know circumstance beyond the scriptive. To, in some sense, based

:38:08.:38:17.

in the deeper biology. It is not just brain imaging that is bringing

:38:17.:38:23.

about this change, it is also in the genetics lab. The world's

:38:23.:38:28.

largest genetic study of people with bipolar disorder, is taking

:38:28.:38:32.

place in Cardiff. Professor Nick Craddock is in charge. We are

:38:32.:38:39.

trying to identify genes and therefore molecule, involved in

:38:39.:38:43.

bipolar disorder. That will give as you clear and better understanding

:38:43.:38:48.

of some of the causes and triggers of bipolar disorder. One of his

:38:48.:38:52.

patients is Twink, he has returned to Cardiff to give the team an

:38:52.:38:57.

update on how he has been doing. Can you tell us how things have

:38:57.:39:05.

been going over the last four years? I think I'm starting to see

:39:05.:39:12.

the green shoots of getting better. The last four years have been

:39:12.:39:18.

challenging. At times been desperate. Some of the genetic

:39:18.:39:24.

findings, typically from family studies, help us know how to why

:39:24.:39:29.

identify people at high risk of illness, some of those things are

:39:29.:39:33.

in the clinic from day-to-day. We are already finding some of the

:39:33.:39:37.

sorts of genes that seem to be important in sue Septemberability

:39:37.:39:44.

with bipolar disorder, have a wider role, and also increase sue suss

:39:44.:39:48.

Septemberability to things like depression and schizophrenia. We

:39:48.:39:54.

are understanding why people have a complex mix of symptoms that don't

:39:55.:40:04.
:40:05.:40:05.

fit neatly into a diagnostic box. As scientists begin to unpick the

:40:05.:40:09.

workings of the brain. The challenge is to fine more

:40:09.:40:13.

effective treatments. Up until now it is hit and miss, almost

:40:13.:40:15.

stumbling across drugs that happen to work.

:40:15.:40:19.

With new tools, such as brain scans and genetics, scientists are

:40:20.:40:23.

talking about a much more sophisticated approach, bringing

:40:23.:40:27.

the medicine of mental health, out of the dark ages and into the 21st

:40:27.:40:37.

century. At the serene country retreat of

:40:37.:40:40.

Britain's National Academy of Sciences, Professor Insel is brain

:40:40.:40:43.

storming with a select group of UK scientists.

:40:44.:40:49.

As head of a billion dollar agency in the states, his views carry some

:40:49.:40:54.

weight. Their task today, to come up with new ways to treat people.

:40:54.:40:59.

What is really intriguing is the development of new compounds. We

:40:59.:41:05.

have one as a sort of proof of concept, called ketamine, which

:41:05.:41:10.

works within three hours rather than six weeks. Is that the same

:41:10.:41:14.

ketamine used as a horse tranquilliser? It is known and

:41:14.:41:19.

around for decades, it was selected because people thought it affect

:41:19.:41:23.

add particular molecular target in the brain, that seems to change

:41:23.:41:31.

after conventional treatment with anti-depressant, people thought let

:41:31.:41:35.

- anti-depleasants, people thought let's jump over that target and see

:41:35.:41:39.

what happens. It is one example of how scientists are coming up with

:41:39.:41:45.

faster and more effective treatment, and it is that which has them

:41:45.:41:48.

excited. This is a potentially deadly illness for which you would

:41:48.:41:52.

want to have treatments that don't take six to eight weeks to work.

:41:52.:41:54.

You would like something to work more quickly. This is a game

:41:54.:41:59.

changer in that sense. It is that kind of advance, that

:41:59.:42:03.

scientists hope will change the way we all think about mental illness.

:42:03.:42:07.

That this is not something that is all in the mind, from which people

:42:07.:42:11.

should just pull themselves together. Their hope is that mental

:42:11.:42:15.

illness will one day become just like any other field of medicine.

:42:15.:42:22.

What I would foresee is over the next generation, we will move to

:42:22.:42:26.

situations where psychiatry is much more like cardiology, or other

:42:26.:42:32.

medical specialties, where we have a range of tests, imaging tests of

:42:32.:42:42.
:42:42.:42:42.

the way the brain functions, blood tests to know suseptible factors,

:42:42.:42:47.

that will help us be direct today the diagnosis and to know more

:42:47.:42:53.

accurately how to help people. for Twink, that's the real promise

:42:53.:43:00.

of this revolution. 3,000 people this week will attempt suicide, not

:43:00.:43:04.

all are bipolar sufferers, but a large proportion of them will have

:43:04.:43:08.

some mental ill-health. If we can do something about that, then, we

:43:08.:43:18.
:43:18.:43:20.

can save lives. It is as black and white as that. Scientists aren't

:43:20.:43:26.

saying that knowing what and where it is happening in the brain will

:43:26.:43:29.

cure all mental illness. But with these tools, science is

:43:29.:43:32.

transforming our approach. For many people that will be the difference

:43:32.:43:41.

between life and death. Before we go, Michael Jackson's

:43:41.:43:48.

doctor, Conrad Murray, has been found guilty of causing the

:43:49.:43:54.

singer's death. Jackson died in June 200, following a fatal

:43:54.:44:02.

overdose of a powerful sedative. Can you bring us up to speed?

:44:02.:44:06.

fans, the die hard Michael Jackson fans gathering outside here every

:44:06.:44:09.

day for six weeks, and screamed with tears when the verdict was

:44:10.:44:15.

announced, will not know what to do with themselves, over the next few

:44:15.:44:19.

weeks, when Conrad Murray will be sentenced, up to four years in

:44:19.:44:23.

prison for the involuntary manslaughter of Michael Jackson.

:44:23.:44:27.

The jury took less than a day-and- a-half to convict after hundreds of

:44:27.:44:30.

pieces of evidence and witnesses they had heard from. They made the

:44:30.:44:35.

decision pretty quickly, that is that Conrad Murray was responsible

:44:35.:44:42.

for Michael Jackson's death, he provided the strong anaesthetic

:44:42.:44:47.

drug that killed Michael Jackson, he didn't give him the care. He was

:44:47.:44:51.

out of the room when Michael Jackson stopped breathing. There

:44:51.:44:55.

was criticism that he didn't react properly, he didn't call the

:44:55.:44:58.

emergency service for up to 20 minutes. There were many things he

:44:58.:45:02.

did that the prosecution picked holes in and said this was not just

:45:02.:45:07.

unprofessional and unethical, but criminal negligence. And the jury,

:45:07.:45:17.
:45:17.:45:56.

pretty quickly, decided they agreed. That's all tonight. Rugby fans will

:45:56.:46:01.

miss a treat this winter, the Ireland captain, Patrick O'Driscoll

:46:01.:46:05.

will miss the Six Nations championship, - Brian O'Driscoll

:46:05.:46:09.

will miss the Six Nations championship because of a trapped

:46:10.:46:19.
:46:20.:46:43.

Good evening. After a chilly start to the night in Scotland and

:46:43.:46:45.

Northern Ireland. Increasing cloud will bring a lift in temperatures

:46:45.:46:49.

into the morning. A much greyer day to come compared with Monday.

:46:49.:46:54.

England and Wales essentially as you were, grey, gloomy skies

:46:54.:46:58.

overhead, producing rain and drizzle over time. Miss and hill

:46:58.:47:03.

fog over time. Winds light easterly. The rain will come and go. Heavier

:47:03.:47:07.

showers before the day is through, across the far south-east corner,

:47:07.:47:10.

particularly around the coast. At the same time we will see

:47:10.:47:13.

brightness pushing into the Isles of Scilly and western Cornwall and

:47:14.:47:17.

western fringes of Wales, brightening up a touch. Most of you

:47:17.:47:21.

will stick with the grey skies overhead. Still damp in one or two

:47:21.:47:26.

spots. Temperatures largely 11 degrees. A grey day in Northern

:47:26.:47:30.

Ireland, the breeze pick up before the day is out. Across southern

:47:30.:47:34.

Scotland much cloudier, western areas a hint of brightness, the

:47:34.:47:40.

best across the hebties, it could get to 16 in - Hebrides, it could

:47:40.:47:50.
:47:50.:48:00.

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