15/11/2011 Newsnight


15/11/2011

With youth unemployment set to top one million for the first time since the early 1990s, Newsnight speaks to some of the young people behind this statistic.


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Transcript


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You finished your education, now you plan to start a career and then

:00:08.:00:12.

later, perhaps, buy a home or raise a family. Well, forget it. There

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are no jobs, or there aren't anything like enough of them. No

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job, no income, no hope. When so- called working hours are just a

:00:21.:00:24.

hole to be filled what does it do to you? It makes you feel angry,

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when you wake up you have nothing to look forward to, it is the same

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day, what can I do today? We have brought together 30 young people,

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either unemployed or underemployed, with Chris Grayling, the employment

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minister and David Miliband now leading a charity initiative. Could

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he convince the world that it was he who was telling the truth rather

:00:47.:00:52.

than his old boss. The former UK borders chief gets his day in front

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of parliament. Over 40 years I have built up a reputation, and over two

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days that reputation has been destroyed, and I believe that has

:01:02.:01:07.

been largely from the contributions made by the Home Secretary.

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Meet the Government of another EU country that's rejected the euro,

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yet the Prime Minister of Denmark tells us, actually, she thinks it

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is rather a good scheme. I'm always in favour of the euro, stim I am.

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Still in favour of it. It has been a disaster? I don't think the euro

:01:24.:01:34.
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has been a disaster. Brace yourself, it is confidently

:01:35.:01:38.

expected that tomorrow we will hear that unemployment has gone up again.

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Being unable to get a job is bad enough, at any age, but it is

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perhaps especially hard on the young.

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Tomorrow's figures are expected to show that over a million of us

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between the ages of 16 and 24, have no paid work. The talk is of a lost

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generation. We asked Jim Reed from Radio 1's Newsbeat to report for us.

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If you are lucky enough to get an interview, there is too many people

:02:06.:02:09.

far more qualified get anything there. For the last four years I

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have travelled up and down the country. Trying to find out what

:02:12.:02:15.

matters to the next generation. have only got experience in

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construction, and they won't give me a retail job, they won't give me

:02:19.:02:23.

a chance. A job, a role, something to do. Those questions have always

:02:23.:02:26.

been there. I have lost count of the number of jobs I have applied

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for. Something has changed, now for many young people it is all they

:02:30.:02:34.

want to talk about. It is better to actually go into the shop you want

:02:34.:02:37.

and get application form, instead of going to the Jobcentre where you

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think you would get the help, because you don't.

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Phil Shaw is young, frustrated and out of work. Spends his time at the

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local gym, in the Manchester suburb of Wytheshawe, there is nothing

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else to do. Getting up and doing the same thing. I want to be

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getting up, getting ready to go to work. Because I do want to work.

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All I need is that one chance to prove to people that I can do it.

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heard you talking earlier you are really fed up, aren't you.

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We have brought Phil and his friends to meet Emma Harrisson, the

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chairman of the training company, A4E, and now a influential adviser

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to David Cameron. I believe the problem has become so entrenched at

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a certain level in certain groups of young people, because their

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parents run employed, the young people are unemployed, actually the

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only way now is one-on-one support. Is somebody going to say I will

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work that with that family and young people, and do whatever it

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takes tworbg with them to get them back into work. We have to start

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doing it earlier I think, at the moment, a young person waiting 12

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months before they get some support is too long, by then the anger, the

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frustration, the self-esteem has gone, the confidence has gone, and

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they are going round and round in circles, we have to get in there

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quickly and sort this thing out. Really, how bad is it, for young

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people today. We have gazed into the statistics, to try to dispel

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some myths. Number one, there are almost a million young people

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unemployed. There are 991,000 16- 24-year-olds out of work. Take out

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full-time students looking for a job, that figure drops to 721,000.

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Myth number two, this was all caused by the financial crisis, and

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our response to it. It is true, that 2008 saw a sharp spike in

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youth unemployment. But, take a look back to 2004, and you will see

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it started rising long before that. The final myth, record youth

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unemployment, now that's true, but this set of records only began in

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1992. Look back to 1984, and although the figures were

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calculated slightly differently, the number out of work hit 1.2

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million. There is one more revealing fact,

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for young people I have met in Salford and around the country,

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this isn't just about unemployment. The number taking part-time work,

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because they can't find a full-time position, has now risen to 337,000.

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Almost double what it was just three years ago.

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That rising figure, 337,000, doesn't show up in the official

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unemployment statistics, but it is more than a third of a million

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young people who want or need more work.

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At this supermarket, on the outskirts of Salford, the manager

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says he has stopped advertising positions, he's already sitting on

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a pile of 20 or so CVs. Sally Burke started working here part-time

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three years ago, to pay her way through a media studies course at

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university. That course has come to an end, she graduated with a 2: 1

:05:52.:05:56.

degree, but she's still here. definitely want to be working full-

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time instead of part-time. But. not get the full-time job, why is

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it so difficult? It is not out there. It is not out there to get.

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I have been looking for a full-time job, in what I want to do,

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literally there is nothing out there. Unemployment is really bad.

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People I have graduated with, some of them didn't work part-time, some

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did, they are looking for full-time jobs and they can't find full-time

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jobs. There is one of about, 100 on my course, that have a full-time

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job in what they want to do. That is not very good statistics at all.

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Like many of the 9 others on her course, she's still in debt.

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�18,000. And not sure why she took that course in the first place.

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Here, on the other side of Salford is a project to refurbish rundown

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council houses. Building firms are being forced to recruit apprentices

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from this area, if they want to win the local Government contract.

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applied for over 50 actual jobs, and then I also sent off around 100,

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150 speculative letters, and I got nothing back. Absolutely nothing.

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How did that make you feel? It's just, honestly, you can't even

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describe the knockbacks, waiting for the post, and checking your e-

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mails every ten minutes and checking your phone to see if

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anybody has contacted you. How did it feel when you got the letter and

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got the yes to the job? It was amazing. The motivation, I have got

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something to get up for in the morning.

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These trainees, though, say they are the lucky ones. On this project

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there are only 28 places, and they are all full. Work on the site

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started six weeks ago. And since then, there has been a steady

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stream of young people, who have seen what's happening here and are

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trying to get involved. Not a week has gone by when someone hasn't

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tapped on the foreman's window, asking for work. Let's discuss

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first of all what unemployment does to you. Someone who hasn't got a

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job. What does unemployment do to you? You don't know what to do. You

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come out, you try to look for a job, you have no job, you are just

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sitting at home, Monday to Friday, doing nothing. It gets to a point

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thaw don't know what to do, you don't have a routine, you don't

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know what day is what day. Does it make you think differently about

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yourself? Definitely, you think there is something wrong with you,

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something must be wrong with you can't get a job, you are trying,

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you are putting yourself out there, you can't get anything. You think

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why bother, you might as well stay at home and sleep. What am I doing

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with my life, period. Anyone else want to add to that?

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name is Katie, I'm an unemployed graduate. It is absolutely true, it

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makes people judge you as well, because you are made to feel that

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eventhough there aren't enough jobs for everyone, there isn't even

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enough jobs for the young unemployed to find work, people

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make you feel, the media in particular, make you feel it is

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your fault, you are to blame. is your day like, most of us, get

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up, go to work or education, if you are not doing that, someone tell me

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what your day is like? All your day is like, you just are laid in bed,

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and you don't really want to get up. Because you have nothing to get up

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for. Nothing at all. All you are wanting to do is get up late, get

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up later in the afternoon, and then half your day is gone. The business

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of searching for a job, other job - - are the job centres working?

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is useless going to the Jobcentre, they do nothing for you. You go in,

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you look for jobs, and they give you no help whatsoever. I have been

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to the Jobcentre, and I have been to look for a job, I have been on

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recruitment agencies, when you go into a Jobcentre, as a graduate,

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the jobs I get on there are not the jobs that I want to aim for. They

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are jobs that pay maybe minimum wage, some are inteornships, not in

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the relevant areas -- inteornships, not in the relevant areas. What

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about the atmosphere inside job centres, has anyone much experience

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of that? When I go into the Jobcentre I feel like it is a

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conveyor-belt. They just go in every two weeks. You tell them what

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you have been doing, and right, fine, next person come in. You

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don't get someone talking to you, helping you, trying to get into a

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job, it is just, next. It is a conveyor-belt. Anyone else? You are

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just a statistic, you go to the next person, you sign off, here is

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your money, next person, please. They try to get you off the system,

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off benefits and off jobseekers', and into any work, they don't Kay.

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What does it make you feel about yourself? You are disposal, the

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next person to come in. You don't feel like a purpose in life. It is

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a neverending cycle of despair. Somebody in that film mentioned the

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business of sending off application forms, and into the even getting an

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acknowledgement. Not getting any kind of reply. What's that like?

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have sent off, I'm a recent graduate. I got a good degree from

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a good university, I sent off maybe 120 different applications, I have

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heard back from about 10-15% of those, it is always generic replies,

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saying we can't give you any feedback because we have had over

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400 applicants for one job. Anyone else got this experience of not

:11:57.:12:01.

getting a response? I have sent out many CVs and e-mails to many

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different places, no replies, the frustrating thing is it doesn't

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only matter thra they don't reply to you, if they do reply to you,

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they can't really point out exactly why they don't want you. You don't

:12:13.:12:16.

know what to work to improve. Therefore, you are just stuck in

:12:16.:12:26.
:12:26.:12:28.

that same position, over and over again.

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You hear these people saying how will I pay my way in the world and

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get a job, what is the single most important piece of advice to give

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to them? Until the economy is growing it lr difficult to the

:12:45.:12:49.

young people to get a job. That is pretty cold? We have to be honest

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with the young people. This problem didn't start in may 2010, it is

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longer dated, however, it has got much worse in the last year,

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because the economy isn't growing. One other point, I think is really

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important, there is a syndrome that affects many young people who come

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to see me in my constituency, in my constituency, Jeremy, the number of

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young unemployed has more than doubled in just this year. What

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they say is, if you haven't got a job you can't get experience, and

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if you can't get experience you can't get a job. That is a vicious

:13:19.:13:23.

circle that turns into long-term youth unemployment, which backs

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long-term adult unemployment. That is the danger. It is the wrong

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moment and occasion for us to get into a political debate.

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Let focus on the point about the point of not having experience and

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getting a job. One of the things we have done, most important of all. I

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think you are all dealing with one big challenge in particular, which

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is employers are reluctant to take on somebody fresh from school,

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college or university without experience. That shows through

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quite extensively in all the conversations I have with young

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people struggling in the labour market. You have to persuade these

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companies to do it? We have put together a work experience scheme,

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which we lanched in the spring. Which so far is proving remarkably

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successful for getting half the young people through it back to

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work. I want to make sure everyone does that. It is something

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Jobcentre Plus should be doing for you, if not you should ask for that

:14:24.:14:34.
:14:34.:14:38.

opportunity. I have done two years with the Prince's Trust and got a -

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- an apprenticeship. They offer less than minimum wage, for people

:14:43.:14:46.

who don't live at home they couldn't support themselves on that

:14:46.:14:49.

wage. What could the Government do to support them on that. A very

:14:49.:14:55.

particular point. You had your hand up? I just want to say, it has been

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said that a long of young people go to the cycle if they can't get

:14:59.:15:02.

experience they can't get a jobs, I volunteer at a youth organisation

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because I couldn't get experience and the Jobcentre didn't hire me,

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there is a promise at the end of the volunteering role that a job

:15:09.:15:14.

will come about. I am getting experience in youth work, because I

:15:14.:15:19.

want to be a juvenile justice social worker, however, there is

:15:19.:15:25.

not really jobs in that youth service, so you are looking for

:15:25.:15:30.

generic jobs like Marks & Spencers, they don't want to hire you vu,

:15:30.:15:38.

introduced any schemes to get expeer -- experience for those

:15:38.:15:41.

people. I accept the job market is difficult for people. You are doing

:15:41.:15:45.

the right thing by getting experience through volunteering and

:15:45.:15:48.

work experience. The most important thing is to do something that adds

:15:48.:15:52.

to your salability to an employer. What you are doing is absolutely

:15:52.:15:56.

right. You may well find, taking one of the big supermarkets, the

:15:56.:16:00.

local branch of the big supermarkets in my constituency has

:16:00.:16:04.

someone employed as the community outreach worker. It may come as you

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work for one of the big supermarkets and go into a role

:16:07.:16:11.

like that, it might lead to a youth worker role in a local authority.

:16:11.:16:14.

Always look for the potential of a job to lead somewhere, don't look

:16:14.:16:21.

at it as being an deadend. What is different from when any of us were

:16:21.:16:25.

looking for a job. When we were looking not only was there more

:16:25.:16:28.

industry in this country, there were fewer people coming from

:16:28.:16:34.

Eastern Europe and elsewhere in the world, willing to work hard for low

:16:34.:16:41.

wages. That is a huge change? of the challenges for a young

:16:41.:16:44.

person looking for a job and looking for someone with experience,

:16:44.:16:49.

we have discovered if we can get young people in the work place for

:16:49.:16:53.

a period of time and build a relationship with an employer, more

:16:53.:16:58.

often than not they stay with the employer or get into employment

:16:58.:17:02.

soon afterwards. It is quite often an employer will take someone with

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more experience, from another country, offering the been there

:17:05.:17:08.

and done it before. We have to get more of you into the work place to

:17:08.:17:14.

show what you can do, and those turn into jobs or apprenticeships.

:17:14.:17:18.

The job market has changed since you or I went into work, more

:17:18.:17:22.

people are in work in Britain today than when we graduated from

:17:22.:17:25.

university. I do think there is something else, we are in

:17:25.:17:27.

extraordinarily difficult economic times in Britain and Europe, that

:17:27.:17:32.

means that the normal measures you take aren't just going to work. The

:17:32.:17:35.

programme of giving people job interviews and trying to give them

:17:35.:17:38.

preparation, works in times of economic growth, when you have got

:17:38.:17:41.

economic stagnation, I think, if you want to prevent long-term

:17:41.:17:45.

unemployment, you do need to say to young people f you have been

:17:45.:17:48.

unemployed for six or nine months we will guarantee you a job, to

:17:48.:17:54.

break that cycle of no job-no experience. What sort of a job,

:17:54.:18:00.

where will you find these jobs? have experience from 200-2010 of a

:18:00.:18:05.

programme that guaranteed young people employment. Youth

:18:05.:18:12.

unemployment has been rising since 2004? Long-term unemployment, there

:18:12.:18:16.

are 70,000 young people long-term unemployed more than six months.

:18:16.:18:18.

That is the problem for the society as a whole. When you asked what

:18:18.:18:22.

does it feel like for you. We know if you are long-term unemployed as

:18:22.:18:24.

a youngster you are much more likely to be long-term unemployed

:18:24.:18:28.

as an adult. That is bad for the people here the economy. You have

:18:28.:18:34.

had your hand up in the middle for ages. I would just like to point

:18:34.:18:37.

out, I think David was going on about youth unemployment. I think

:18:37.:18:42.

that's at the highest at the moment, I think that is also due to part of

:18:42.:18:46.

the demonisation of young people in the media. There is a lot of

:18:46.:18:50.

courses that the Jobcentre are doing at the moment, there is one

:18:50.:18:55.

particular one called Work Trials, you go into a job unpaid for 30

:18:55.:19:00.

days. Hopefully they may take you on after it. But that is never the

:19:00.:19:04.

case, because they can't pay you, they can't pay you to do that job.

:19:04.:19:10.

People are just going in after 30 days. Experience may be that, that

:19:10.:19:14.

is not the experience across the board for schemes like that. We are

:19:14.:19:18.

seeing more than half the young people going into placement with

:19:19.:19:21.

employers, getting into work with that employer or within a month of

:19:21.:19:24.

leaving that period of trial work. It does make a difference.

:19:24.:19:31.

In the front row over here? Chris Grayling, you said that you

:19:31.:19:35.

think there needs to be much greater responsibility on the

:19:35.:19:39.

individual to find work, and not just the employer, if so, what are

:19:39.:19:46.

you doing to help young people with this ability to help them get jobs?

:19:46.:19:50.

What we have done for young people with disabilities, in particular

:19:50.:19:53.

you need a much more specialised and personalised support to get

:19:54.:19:57.

into work. That also applies to the long-term unemployed. The work

:19:57.:20:01.

programme we have launched, which started in June, offers to young

:20:01.:20:05.

people, either after three months or nine months, and to people with

:20:05.:20:10.

disabilities, straight away, personalised, specialised support

:20:10.:20:13.

from expert recruitment firms, only paid when they are successful in

:20:13.:20:17.

getting you into work. Early days we are seeing good numbers in young

:20:17.:20:20.

people getting into work. That specialist support is there for you

:20:21.:20:26.

now. Have you had specialist support as a disabled person?

:20:26.:20:30.

Sorry? Have you had specialist support? Support from the Jobcentre

:20:30.:20:38.

because you are disabled? Yeah, from my DA at the Jobcentre. Let's

:20:38.:20:42.

talk a little bit about education. We have heard already from several

:20:42.:20:46.

graduates here, desappointed that they are clearly haven't been able

:20:46.:20:50.

to find jobs that seem to be suited to the education that they have had.

:20:50.:20:54.

Let's hear from a couple more students or graduates about the

:20:54.:21:02.

experience of trying to find a job. I'm a third-year geography student,

:21:02.:21:05.

I have found student means testing doesn't give me a loan that covers

:21:05.:21:09.

my rent. For the entire of my degree I have had to fund my rent

:21:09.:21:13.

by finding part-time employment, and that came to a head this year

:21:13.:21:16.

when the only employment I could find would be working in a

:21:16.:21:24.

nightclub, I would be working 13- hour shifts from 5.00pm to 7.00pm,

:21:24.:21:30.

I couldn't do my degree with shifts like that. Do you regret starting

:21:30.:21:36.

the degree? I almost do, thinking what could I have done with the

:21:36.:21:40.

time, I have to think is part-time employment or good grades, I can't

:21:40.:21:44.

do the two things. Anyone else want to talk about university education

:21:44.:21:50.

and what it leads to or not? I'm a graduate. People seem really

:21:50.:21:53.

shocked when you have the audacity to believe that you should want

:21:53.:21:57.

fulfiling work, that you should just be able to take anything, when,

:21:57.:22:04.

frankly, we do deserve what we want. If the system. Why? Why do you

:22:04.:22:10.

think you deserve it? Previous generations have had it, we need

:22:10.:22:14.

fulfiling, economically and eek logically viable work. If the

:22:14.:22:17.

economic system can't afford that, quite frankly we can't afford the

:22:17.:22:21.

economic system and we need to change it. Your argument is you are

:22:21.:22:24.

being offered the wrong kind of job? My argument is there is not

:22:24.:22:29.

enough jobs out there, the industry has been sold off. Any jobs? A lot

:22:29.:22:37.

of our industry has been sold off in the 1980s. I's talking a lot of

:22:37.:22:41.

good sense. -- He's talking a lot of good sense. Our economy is

:22:41.:22:46.

smaller than it used to be, the people here are facing the prospect

:22:47.:22:51.

that our economy is not back there. That is an important part of

:22:51.:22:54.

explaining. I don't think we want to get into a political debate, but

:22:54.:22:58.

it is also the case that there are 250,000 more people in work today

:22:58.:23:01.

than there were at the time of the general election. But I don't want

:23:01.:23:05.

us to have a political debate about this, we need to deliver practical

:23:05.:23:10.

solutions. Yes, of course. Can I go back to the point raised earlier,

:23:10.:23:13.

about the challenge of simply pumping out the CVs, because I

:23:13.:23:17.

think it is one of the biggest challenges and it affects job

:23:17.:23:22.

seekers of all ages. If you look at it from the other side, a small or

:23:23.:23:27.

medium-sized firm, you get 200 CVs, your ability to provide

:23:27.:23:29.

personalised responses to those you don't want to interview is tough,

:23:29.:23:32.

you can't do it and run your business. One of the things I hope

:23:32.:23:35.

to do during the work programme, designed for those really

:23:35.:23:38.

struggling to get into work, to provide personalised and really

:23:38.:23:42.

individualised help to find the right job, is that we will be able

:23:42.:23:46.

to short change that link, and what we will be able to do is match

:23:46.:23:50.

individuals to a job opportunity to a much greater degree. I describe

:23:50.:23:54.

it as a giant employment dating service, it is about professional

:23:54.:23:56.

organisations identifying vacancies and matching them. You can only

:23:57.:24:00.

have a dating agency with two willing partners? Each week, still

:24:00.:24:07.

now, Jobcentre Plus alone is receiving 90,000 vacancies, that is

:24:07.:24:10.

five million vacancies a year. are there nearly a million

:24:10.:24:13.

unemployed young people? We have to make sure young people struggling

:24:13.:24:17.

to get into the job market get into those jobs. Why don't you just

:24:17.:24:19.

admit, there is a shortage of jobs, due to the economic circumstances

:24:19.:24:24.

we are in, and we will not be able to meet them all they demand?

:24:24.:24:29.

can look at it and say there is no solution, I look at it differently.

:24:29.:24:32.

There are a large number of vacancies in the economy at any one

:24:32.:24:35.

time, I want to help those struggling to get into the labour

:24:35.:24:40.

market to do so. With specialised support through the work programme,

:24:40.:24:44.

work experience scheme through Jobcentre Plus, and do everything

:24:44.:24:48.

we can to get you into the vacancies that are there. Three

:24:48.:24:52.

there may not be vacancies we would wish, but for every young person

:24:52.:24:58.

there is an opportunity to get a job. I have a masters degrees,

:24:58.:25:03.

there are 2.5 job seekers in Britain today seeking one million

:25:03.:25:08.

jobs. It shows the main political parties in Britain see youth

:25:08.:25:14.

unemployment as a price worth playing, you shouldn't say it is

:25:14.:25:18.

the cloim mate. You should get people building houses for the

:25:18.:25:23.

council house waiting lists. Let's look at where the jobs will come

:25:23.:25:28.

from? The policies Chris is coming out with, the work academy scheme,

:25:28.:25:32.

when the last unemployment figures were announced. Unpaid work

:25:32.:25:35.

experience, working for your dole, for 50,000 of the one million

:25:35.:25:39.

people out of work. It is not creating any more jobs, it is

:25:39.:25:41.

readvertising jobs already advertised.

:25:41.:25:46.

David Miliband where are the new jobs coming from? The industries in

:25:46.:25:49.

which Britain is strong, everything from pharmaceuticals to business

:25:49.:25:53.

services, even the much derided financial services, these are the

:25:53.:25:56.

areas where the growing middle- classes in Asia, India and China

:25:56.:26:00.

will need to be serviced from. If we are ready to skill ourselves up,

:26:00.:26:04.

and develop our economy, grow our economy, the young people here can

:26:04.:26:08.

fill them. I would just like to say one thing to Chris, he doesn't have

:26:08.:26:12.

to believe me, but listen to himself. At the beginning you say

:26:12.:26:15.

you understand these people can't break into the job market and at

:26:15.:26:18.

the moment they need help. You can't say just rely on the economic

:26:18.:26:23.

cycle to pick them up. There is a real issue of young people at the

:26:23.:26:27.

bottom of the pile, when the employers you talk about receive

:26:27.:26:30.

their CVs, we need to help them in their country and the country's

:26:30.:26:38.

industries get up the pile, women dopbl that if we break the cycle --

:26:38.:26:42.

we can only do that if we break the cycle and give them a job.

:26:42.:26:46.

You have had your hand up for a while? I think it should be the

:26:46.:26:50.

responsibility of the Government of the day to ensure that there is a

:26:50.:26:56.

job, or at least a training programme for graduates to go into.

:26:56.:27:02.

Least of all the coalition have now increased the tuition fees, so much,

:27:02.:27:08.

they should be accountable and very responsible for making sure that

:27:08.:27:11.

graduates aren't going to come out. Maybe you should choose a degree

:27:11.:27:15.

that will get awe job? It is ten times harder not to have a degree.

:27:15.:27:18.

Those here with a degree saying it is tough, it is ten times harder if

:27:18.:27:22.

you haven't a degree. Complaining about the degree they have chosen

:27:22.:27:27.

isn't the issue. I think that is an insult. Maybe people should have

:27:27.:27:31.

lower expectations, do you think that is a solution? No, because

:27:31.:27:36.

when you or I went to university, there were 12% of the population,

:27:36.:27:42.

in Korea it is 80%, in the UK it is 60%. The idea that for Britain

:27:42.:27:46.

there is a future in less education, that is a recipe for absolute

:27:46.:27:49.

disaster. I would argue that what we need in terms of skills, and

:27:49.:27:53.

what we have done is increase significantly the number of

:27:53.:27:56.

apprenticeships, aimed particularly at young people not graduates. We

:27:56.:28:00.

have a challenge with graduates, I want to help them get into careers

:28:00.:28:04.

that meet the aspirations and thecation they have had. I also

:28:04.:28:11.

want young people at the school age having skills to last a lifetime.

:28:11.:28:15.

With apprenticeships, it was great to see the young lady in the film

:28:15.:28:18.

moving into the apprenticeship, that is one path to build skills

:28:19.:28:23.

that last a lifetime. I'm glad the coalition Government are

:28:23.:28:27.

emphasising the importance of apprenticeships. I hope Chris

:28:27.:28:31.

agrees, a lot of apprenticeships are at level two. We have to make

:28:31.:28:34.

sure if we want them in the jobs of the future, they are at the

:28:34.:28:38.

equivalent of A-level standard. Unless we are willing to invest in

:28:38.:28:42.

that level of skill we will get out competing. We are doing that, and

:28:42.:28:47.

level 3 apprenticeships. Right, I would just like to look forward. We

:28:47.:28:50.

have raised this question of where the future jobs are going to come

:28:50.:28:55.

from. And you are all in a difficult place right now with the

:28:55.:29:01.

sirbgs as they are. Any of you feel -- the situation as they are now.

:29:01.:29:05.

Any of you feel optimistic that this can't last this bleak future?

:29:05.:29:08.

I think the situation will get better, and people will find jobs,

:29:08.:29:11.

I think young people should keep their hopes up, keep applying.

:29:11.:29:15.

There is no point lying in bed until 12.00, that won't really help

:29:15.:29:20.

you. It does, the future does look bleak for us, but with the help of

:29:20.:29:23.

you guy, instead of arguing on stage and having a go at each other,

:29:23.:29:27.

maybe you should work together and maybe go forward and do something

:29:27.:29:33.

about it. Because, for us, buying a home doesn't seem possible at the

:29:33.:29:43.
:29:43.:29:43.

moment. I think the key is to obtain experience alongside your

:29:43.:29:47.

education, so you have a competitive age. A lot of

:29:47.:29:51.

internships are unpaid, it exclude people who can't afford to. You do

:29:51.:29:55.

feel you will find a job eventually? There is a lot of jobs

:29:55.:30:00.

around there, a lot of people are excluded who aren't able to take on

:30:00.:30:07.

unpaid work. Ifrpblgt I came into unemployment -- I came into

:30:07.:30:10.

employment through college myself. I wanted to do a song writing

:30:10.:30:14.

course, it just was brought into the college, I enrolled in the

:30:14.:30:19.

college, I had done one year at college, the day I went to start my

:30:19.:30:22.

college course it got cancelled. And I never found out about it

:30:22.:30:27.

until the day I actually went into college, one of the teachers said

:30:27.:30:31.

to me, why are you here, the course has been cancelled. And then I said

:30:31.:30:35.

what are you going to do about it, they turned around and said, you

:30:35.:30:42.

can do nails, beauty, hairdressing, I said what's that got to do with

:30:42.:30:48.

writing songs, I want to sing, what has that got to do with anything.

:30:48.:30:52.

They may lead to jobs. When you guys look at the future do you have

:30:52.:30:56.

reason to feel positive, other than getting out of the economic crisis

:30:56.:30:59.

we are in, and then the economy will grow. From the experience of

:30:59.:31:03.

my constituency, when I meet some of those 385 young people

:31:03.:31:07.

registered as claiming unemployment, I think they have a huge amount to

:31:07.:31:12.

contribute to the country. No-one is denying they have a contribution

:31:12.:31:15.

to make? I don't believe it is despair, the truth s we have a

:31:15.:31:19.

better educated young population, the competition is there. They are

:31:19.:31:23.

still unemployed? There are things you can do about it, we have talked

:31:23.:31:26.

about some tonight. I don't believe we should offer false hope. The

:31:26.:31:31.

idea we are doomed to economic decline seems to me to be

:31:31.:31:34.

completely wrong. What advice would you give, then,

:31:34.:31:37.

to somebody in their early 20s, graduate or entering straight into

:31:37.:31:41.

the work force, who is applying, continuously, actively job

:31:41.:31:46.

searching, and just not getting anywhere. Someone who is slowly

:31:46.:31:50.

giving up hope. What advice can you give, what can you tell them their

:31:50.:31:54.

future will be like? What I say to the young people in my own

:31:54.:31:57.

constituency is to get some experience, unless they get the

:31:57.:32:00.

experience they won't make the breakthrough. Part of the reason

:32:00.:32:02.

I'm doing this unemployment commission for the charity that you

:32:02.:32:05.

explained at the beginning, is I think there is room for politicians

:32:05.:32:10.

not to pass the buck, but actual loi to say we will build on the --

:32:10.:32:13.

actually say we will build on the ideas whether they come from the

:32:13.:32:19.

right or left to bring the country forward. I think we should have a

:32:19.:32:23.

constructive discussion about building on ideas like

:32:23.:32:26.

apprenticeships and my ideas. Many of the young people I spoke to say

:32:26.:32:31.

getting to the job or the job interview is a real issue. We have

:32:31.:32:34.

to find common ground in taking it forward. If you wrote down the six

:32:34.:32:37.

or seven things that would make a difference you could really help

:32:37.:32:42.

people. I think that's absolutely right. So the lady I will say, we

:32:42.:32:46.

will look together, I will listen carefully and talk to David about

:32:46.:32:51.

his commission's findings. My main advice is don't give up. For the

:32:51.:32:55.

young people going on to job seekers' allowance, two-thirds move

:32:55.:32:58.

quickly within three months. I would say if you can't find the job

:32:58.:33:01.

you want on day one, think laterally, find a way that gives

:33:01.:33:05.

you a path to where you want to go, a couple of jobs down the road,

:33:05.:33:08.

don't think because I have not found a job in the area I did a

:33:08.:33:12.

degree course in, for example, I can't get there if I go via a

:33:12.:33:16.

different route. Take a job, it is better to get into employment, and

:33:16.:33:20.

we will give you all the help we can, and work your way from where

:33:20.:33:24.

you are from being in a job rather than being out of a job. The who

:33:25.:33:29.

said what to whom and by the way anybody got any idea how many

:33:29.:33:32.

terrorist criminals and the rest wandered into Britain as a result,

:33:32.:33:36.

the row is no nearer settlement. Brodie Clark, the man who resigned

:33:36.:33:39.

as head of the Border Force, claimed today that the reputation

:33:39.:33:43.

built over 40 years was trashed in two days by the Home Secretary. Yet

:33:43.:33:47.

he admitted that on 50 occasions this summer alone, procedures

:33:47.:33:52.

designed to keep Britain safe had been suspended. We report.

:33:52.:33:55.

Two men charged with protecting your borders, one Secretary of

:33:55.:34:01.

State, three conflicting accounts, a suspension, an investigation, a

:34:01.:34:07.

suspension pay-off that never -- a pension pay-off that never was, it

:34:07.:34:10.

is Whitehall intrigue. The man at the heart of the row is Brodie

:34:10.:34:14.

Clark, until recently, head of the UK Border Force. Over 40 years I

:34:14.:34:19.

built up a reputation, and over two days that reputation has been

:34:19.:34:24.

destroyed. And I believe that has been largely from the contributions

:34:24.:34:31.

made by the Home Secretary. The UK Border Force has been pressing for

:34:31.:34:34.

an intelligence-led approach. Passengers perceived to be high-

:34:34.:34:39.

risk would be given for detailed checks, freeing up staff to be used

:34:39.:34:42.

elsewhere. The Home Secretary agreed a pilot scheme this spring,

:34:42.:34:45.

some relaxation were allowed, for example, children of EU nationals

:34:45.:34:51.

would not be fully checked. At the heart of the dispute is whether

:34:51.:34:54.

certain border controls for foreign nationals were relaxed. When

:34:54.:34:58.

foreign nationals apply for visas abroad, their finger prints are

:34:58.:35:02.

taken, and they are checked biomettically when they come into

:35:02.:35:05.

the country. We are told the Home Secretary wanted to keep these

:35:05.:35:10.

controls in place, and she told Clark this. In may, June and July

:35:10.:35:14.

this year, finger print matching was suspended at Heathrow 50 times.

:35:14.:35:24.
:35:24.:35:31.

The Home Office do have the exact data but this is thousands of times

:35:31.:35:34.

across the period of time that this pilot was running, from the middle

:35:34.:35:38.

of July until a week after the story broke. The Home Secretary,

:35:38.:35:43.

here at heath throw, relied on Brodie Clark to implement policy.

:35:43.:35:47.

Mr Clarke said today that abandoning finger print checks this

:35:47.:35:50.

year did not go beyond her wishes, because suspending some higher

:35:50.:35:53.

level checks has always been part of the policy at times when queues

:35:53.:35:58.

become so big they threaten health and safety at ports. It was not

:35:58.:36:05.

part of the pilot, it has been in place through the Home Office

:36:05.:36:11.

warnings index policy since June of 2007. So it is a piece of standard

:36:11.:36:15.

practice for the operation, in particular times, where health and

:36:15.:36:19.

safety begins to present a threat to people who are coming through

:36:19.:36:22.

the border. Did you raise this with ministers when you were discussing

:36:22.:36:27.

the pilot, or at any other time after that? I don't recognise

:36:27.:36:34.

collect that I did. But -- Recollect that I did. But form

:36:34.:36:44.

irofficers I spoke today to said the relaxation don't match up? How

:36:44.:36:48.

many times do health and safety mean a relaxing of the checks?

:36:48.:36:54.

can think of a maximum of three occasions since it was introduced

:36:54.:36:59.

in 2007. Just three occasions, when, of course, there were thousands of

:36:59.:37:03.

occasions when the reduced checks were highlights. That's right.

:37:03.:37:07.

is highly unlikely this was due to health and safety? It would be

:37:07.:37:11.

difficult to see how that would bear up to investigation. I was not

:37:11.:37:14.

aware that the extension of the relaxation of checks had taken

:37:14.:37:18.

place, I was not aware, as I have set out in my initial statement, a

:37:18.:37:23.

number of relaxations were put in place, by officials. Brodie Clark,

:37:23.:37:29.

as I understand it, has admitted to the chief executive of UK BA, that

:37:29.:37:33.

he did go beyond ministerial authority, I was not aware this had

:37:33.:37:39.

been done. Brodie Clark's boss at the UK Border Agency agreed.

:37:39.:37:44.

Ministerial instruction, to use secure ID, was not being applied. I

:37:44.:37:49.

think I was right to suspend Mr Clark in order that those matters

:37:49.:37:55.

would be investigated. Brodie Clark is bringing a case of unfair

:37:55.:37:58.

dismissal. Some might say his treatment appears brutal. He was

:37:58.:38:01.

publicly named and shamed. And a first offer to give him the chance

:38:01.:38:06.

to retire early with the financial package was quickly withdrawn.

:38:06.:38:11.

My very clear recollection of events, Mr Michael, is at the

:38:11.:38:15.

break-up of the meeting, Brodie and I had a conversation where it was

:38:15.:38:19.

discussed that he would talk to HR, which he did. I did not suggest a

:38:19.:38:23.

retirement, but I did discuss one with him. Is it correct that you

:38:23.:38:29.

were offered retirement from your post at that time? Ifrpblgt he put

:38:29.:38:34.

to me that I would be -- He put to me that I was suspended and an

:38:34.:38:39.

investigation would commence. He said I could take retirement.

:38:39.:38:43.

the same meeting saying you were suspended he offered you

:38:43.:38:46.

retirement? He advised I should take it. There are key minutes of

:38:46.:38:51.

meetings and e-mails that would help the committee's report, so far

:38:51.:38:53.

the Home Office has declined to provide them until other

:38:54.:38:57.

investigations are complete, in the new year. Richard Watson is here.

:38:58.:39:01.

Is Theresa May off the hook? think she's much stronger tonight,

:39:01.:39:06.

actually. I think Brodie Clark has a problem, which we outlined in the

:39:06.:39:11.

film. These documents we obtained from inside the UK Border Force e-

:39:11.:39:14.

mails confirm really the nature of the finger print checks were being

:39:15.:39:17.

discussed, withdrawing those in certain circumstances, on many,

:39:17.:39:21.

many occasions. Many hundreds of occasions. Given that, I think he

:39:21.:39:24.

has a tough job explaining why he didn't inform the Home Secretary

:39:24.:39:28.

fully about that, and if he didn't, which it appears he didn't. He has

:39:28.:39:34.

some very tough questions to answer. If the politicians eurozone thought

:39:34.:39:38.

they had dowsed the fire, they were wrong. It even started licking

:39:38.:39:42.

around France today, while Italy found the cost of borrowing

:39:43.:39:47.

moneying 7% today, and the European Commission -- money 7% today. And

:39:47.:39:51.

the European Commission told there would be confirmation it would do

:39:51.:39:55.

what it is told. It was short of asking for signatures in blood,

:39:55.:39:58.

only just. Whatever the outcome there will be a new Europe at the

:39:58.:40:01.

end of all this. Trying to get a fix on what it might be like, I

:40:01.:40:05.

spokes today to the Prime Minister of Denmark.

:40:05.:40:11.

They are also not in the euro, but about to assume the presidency of

:40:11.:40:14.

the EU in a few weeks time. Prime Minister, you must be rather

:40:15.:40:19.

pleased that the people of Denmark decided not to join the euro?

:40:19.:40:26.

have always been in favour of the euro, I still am. Really, it is a

:40:26.:40:29.

disaster? I don't think the euro has been a disaster. We have

:40:29.:40:32.

differences and difficulties in Europe right now. But I think that

:40:32.:40:35.

is nothing to do with the euro. That is to do with member states

:40:35.:40:39.

that are not capable of keeping their economy in order. You still

:40:39.:40:45.

would like Denmark to join the euro? Yeah, I would. Right now?

:40:45.:40:50.

Right now we are not putting it to a referendum. The euro is too much

:40:50.:40:54.

of a moving target to put to a referendum. In principle, it would

:40:54.:40:57.

be good for Denmark to join the euro. Even under these

:40:57.:41:01.

circumstances? I think this is a difficult situation. This is the

:41:01.:41:05.

biggest crisis we have had in the euro ever, but I also think that it

:41:05.:41:11.

is not the problems, it is not the euro that is causing the problems.

:41:11.:41:16.

The cause of these problems is the member-states have not been capable

:41:16.:41:20.

of keeping their economy in order. That's why, what is needed now,

:41:20.:41:24.

more than anything, is that each individual member-state keeps their

:41:24.:41:32.

house in order. When we look at Europe, currently faced with a 17 -

:41:32.:41:36.

- currently comprised with 17 member states inside the euro and

:41:36.:41:40.

ten outside the euro. In ten years time you don't think it will be

:41:40.:41:44.

like this? There are certain member-states that are out and

:41:44.:41:48.

planning to join the euro, we still have member-states joining the euro.

:41:48.:41:53.

If you had your way there is only one state not the euro that is

:41:53.:41:56.

Britain? We have to accept that we have some member states that don't

:41:56.:42:00.

want to join the euro. We have some member states very happy with the

:42:00.:42:05.

euro, and wouldn't live without it. What we need to do in Europe right

:42:05.:42:08.

now is to make sure we have an understanding for the 17 and the

:42:08.:42:14.

decisions they have to take together. But we also keep the 27

:42:14.:42:17.

firmly together, in a crisis, I think that is even more important.

:42:17.:42:22.

But there is a danger, isn't there, that if you have 17 within the euro

:42:22.:42:26.

and ten outside the euro, that the 17 get together, in order to make

:42:26.:42:31.

the euro, as they see it, work, and that has bad consequences,

:42:31.:42:35.

potentially, for the ten outside, and consequences furthermore about

:42:35.:42:40.

which they can do nothing? I think we need to understand the countries

:42:40.:42:46.

that are not in the euro. We need to understand there are certain

:42:46.:42:49.

issues that the 17 euro member countries need to sort out

:42:49.:42:52.

themselves. I have no problem understanding that. I also think it

:42:52.:42:57.

is very important that all of us, the 27 are together in the same

:42:57.:43:04.

room, when we take decisions that affect all of us. During the Danish

:43:05.:43:08.

presidency, during which time your country is going to have to help

:43:08.:43:13.

some how sort out the whole crisis in the eurozone. Isn't the

:43:13.:43:17.

inevitable tendency that there will be irresistable power for the

:43:17.:43:22.

repatriation of powers, from the centre, to member states. We need

:43:22.:43:27.

to see how that discussion pans out in Europe. We still don't know. I

:43:27.:43:33.

think what we should focus on now, is to solve the crisis, consolidate

:43:33.:43:37.

our economies, have the necessary discipline in each individual

:43:37.:43:41.

member-state. And after that, we should focus on growth and new jobs.

:43:41.:43:47.

I think what people want from us now, is to focus on growth and new

:43:47.:43:51.

jobs, not institutional changes, not long debates in Europe, but

:43:51.:43:55.

growth and new jobs. If I can make any difference in Europe in the

:43:55.:43:59.

next six months this is the difference I would like to make.

:43:59.:44:04.

when people suggest in this country that the destiny within Europe that

:44:04.:44:08.

Britain ought to see, is some sort of leadership position, or highly

:44:08.:44:13.

influential position, within the group of ten not within the euro,

:44:13.:44:18.

that is something, what do you think about it? I think it is in

:44:18.:44:23.

the interests of all the countries that are not in the euro, to keep

:44:23.:44:27.

the 27 countries together. I think it is really important, in a crisis

:44:27.:44:33.

like we have now, that the 27 that decided to be in the same club,

:44:33.:44:38.

stick together. If we start spliting off in different groupings,

:44:38.:44:41.

I don't think we will create a strong Europe. Prime Minister,

:44:41.:44:47.

thank you. David Miliband, who in a previous

:44:47.:44:51.

life was Foreign Secretary is still here. Do you share the Danish Prime

:44:51.:44:55.

Minister's continuing enthusiasm for the euro? Not in quite the same

:44:55.:44:58.

degree of commitment. The economic circumstances aren't right for

:44:58.:45:01.

Britain, I don't see them being right in the foreseeable future.

:45:01.:45:06.

She made a really important point, though, the European Union faces

:45:06.:45:10.

two futures, one that the 17 run the whole show, with Britain and

:45:10.:45:13.

countries like Denmark effectively in a second division. Or, you find

:45:13.:45:20.

a way for the 27, all 27 countries to work together, some of them

:45:20.:45:23.

leading on macro-economic issues to do with the euro, others, including

:45:23.:45:28.

us playing a forward role, whether on energy, foreign policy or

:45:28.:45:32.

defence. That is a fateful choice for Britain. For 40 years

:45:32.:45:36.

Governments of both parties in this country have tried to avoid a two-

:45:36.:45:39.

speed Europe, that is the danger emerging at the moment. Hearing you

:45:39.:45:43.

talk like that, it is quite like old times. I wish Jeremy. You still

:45:44.:45:49.

have an appetite for the fight? course. Thank you. That is all from

:45:49.:45:59.
:45:59.:46:29.

Hello there, lots of crowd and mist around overnight, fog patches too,

:46:29.:46:36.

it all adds up to a pretty grey start on Wednesday. Some places

:46:36.:46:40.

will have some sunshine, for many glum. Particularly in the western

:46:40.:46:43.

areas. For the western opinion nines and the Midlands expect a

:46:43.:46:47.

cloudy day. For parts of the east it may well cheer up, there could

:46:47.:46:52.

be sunshine, where we do get the sunshine, temperatures up to 12-1.

:46:52.:46:56.

It is not going to be much sunshine here. Outbreaks of rain working

:46:56.:46:59.

their way across Devon and Cornwall. That same area of rain will push

:46:59.:47:04.

into the west of Wales during the afternoon. Further north, because

:47:04.:47:09.

Northern Ireland's has some brightness early on. Drizzley rain

:47:09.:47:14.

at times to end the day. For most of Scotland it should be dry. Lots

:47:14.:47:17.

of cloud across central and southern Scotland. In the north we

:47:17.:47:21.

may well get sunshine. Again there could be stubborn fog patches.

:47:21.:47:25.

Things change on Wednesday through Thursday, rain working northwards,

:47:25.:47:28.

rain may return to Northern Ireland and western Scotland later on

:47:28.:47:32.

Thursday. For England and Wales, Thursday promises some bright or

:47:32.:47:37.

sunny spells. Where the sun comes out, temperatures into the teens.

:47:37.:47:40.

Cloudy across eastern England on Thursday, a good part of the day

:47:40.:47:44.

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