Browse content similar to 15/02/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Eurozone can bail out Greece, but will it. There are doubts whether a | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
second bail out will go ahead. Some in Europe think it is time to cut | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
Greece loose, and a default wouldn't be devastating, just | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
merely irritating. It is becoming clear Europe's leaders don't want | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
to hand 130 billion to politicians who look incapable of delivering | :00:31. | :00:38. | |
what they just signed up to. And, behind the veneer of a modern state | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
the more risk procedure that blights the lives of women. Mothers | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
come knocking on my door, asking me to circumcise their daughters, I | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
don't need to come looking for them. Britain has been boozey, but can | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
anything be done what the Prime Minister calls "the scandal of our | :00:57. | :01:03. | |
society". Drunkenness. The dilemma of politicians is how can they hit | :01:03. | :01:13. | |
:01:13. | :01:15. | ||
the big time bingeers, rather than Good evening the Governor of the | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
Bank of England, Mervyn King confirmed today in his judgment the | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
biggest risk to the British economy is the failure to solve the | :01:21. | :01:27. | |
eurozone crisis. Publicly all the major players, so-called troika, | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
yuefpb Central Bank, International Monetary Fund and European | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
Commission, agrees Greece needs a bail out. But behind the scenes | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
there are cracks, the German Finance Minister, referred to it as | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
a bottomless pit. The paperwork was not in order, and the Greece | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
President clearly angry said he could not accept insults to his | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
country from Germany, Finland or Netherlands. | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
We report on the mess that no-one seems to clear up. Europe is | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
experiencing one of the most cold naps in decades, minus 30 degrees. | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
Europe is cold in the winter, is not unusual, that it is freezing in | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
the Mediterranean is irregular. That chill from north to south | :02:16. | :02:22. | |
seems to be replekaited in this eurozone crisis W Germany and | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
others, hint that Greece's days in the single currency are numbered. | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
The getting the hint in and theen, where the Finance Minister, | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
Evangelos Venizelos, told his countrymen today there were self- | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
eurozone nations who no longer wanted Greece as a member. | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
TRANSLATION: There are visible powers internally in Europe that | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
are playing with fire. Because they believe the October 26th European | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
council agreement might not be itchmented and the specifications | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
will not be kept to. And whoings possibly may want Greece out of the | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
eurozone? It is not just northern politicians | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
actively considering a Greek exit. Even German royalty, Chief | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
Executive of Bosch, seen here drinking with Angela Merkel | :03:09. | :03:16. | |
demanded that Greece not only leave the Euro, but EU. The business is | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
more and more very, if not hostile, toward Greece, because they realise | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
this will be very, very difficult, financiallyings economically, and | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
they're more and more people on the business side who are not too sure | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
this will last, this will be possible to go on. Two years ago | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
when the Greek crisis first erupted the mood in Germany was one of | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
solidarity with the cousins, but two bail out and multiple promises | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
broken later, the mood has changed, somewhat. That means German | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
politicians buoyed with popular support back home can play hard | :03:53. | :03:59. | |
ball with Athens. The hard ball that could push Greece over the | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
edge. Today, MEPs, in the Tory dominated European Conservatives | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
and reformists group, urged the EU to get on with booting the Greeks | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
out of the eurozone. It is no surprise that Germans are | :04:13. | :04:19. | |
unhappy about keeping Greece in the Euro, because getting to boilout | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
more governments that are prorlisk gate than Greece. In fact the main | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
beneficiaries, will be the Greek people who can end the misery of | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
permanent depopulation and post-and begin to claw their way back to | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
export-led recovery. So, Greece leaving the Euro, as well as being | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
a great relief to the people who otherwise would have to bail them | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
out is huge benefit to Greek people themselves who can devalue, price | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
their way in the market and grow again. If he and many others get | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
their way, how exactly would a Greek exit or Grexit work? Before | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
it quits, it would impose capital controls so all savings in current | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
accounts would be effectively locked in Greek banks, which | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
themselves would have to be fully nationalised. Then the parallel or | :05:12. | :05:18. | |
electronic new currency would have to be created to create debts in a | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
new drachma, which would replace euros,. The ECB and Germany would | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
have to give more than a gold carriage clock to Greece as leaving | :05:27. | :05:34. | |
present. To prevent contagion, Berlin and Frankfurt would have to | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
introduce Euro bonds to help the rest of the single currency for | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
implosion. But is this dangerous? don't think anybody should hide. | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
This has been going on for a while. There are contingency plans | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
prepared all over the world, not just in Europe. The Greek people | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
are watching closely and they are scared, because possible default, | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
exit of the single currency, exit of the European currency, would be | :05:57. | :06:03. | |
catastrophic for Greece, and would send the signal of the process of | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
integration, it is important we keep the Euro intact and do it | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
necessary to make it successful within the first few years in | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
existence. As diplomats at the Greek Embassy in London no doubt | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
know, there are two ways for an economy to restore its | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
competitiveness, after an economic shock. You can have an internal | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
devaluation, where you clamp down on wages and deflate the economy, | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
or you can have an external devaluation, where the currency is | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
allowed to float downwards. That is out for Greece, because it is a | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
member of the eurozone, which means it is putting all the eggs in the | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
internal devaluation basket. The problem is the alternative to that | :06:46. | :06:53. | |
is an outright default. With or without a messing default Greece | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
will be rack with the a lot more of this street anger, because the | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
leader of the largest opposition party, and probably the next Prime | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
Minister, signed a letter to honour the austerity pledges, if the | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
April's elections goes ahead. There's little doubt now Greece | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
stands on a precipice with the European partners, relations have | :07:13. | :07:20. | |
never been as frosty. And anti- German sentiment is ram pont and so | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
too is Greece could be a few months away from being frozen out of the | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
Euro entirely. Joe Lynam reporting, our economics editor arrived back | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
from Athens, what is the EU trying to do The EU is always known as | :07:34. | :07:41. | |
soon as you give 130 billion euros to the Greek Government and write | :07:41. | :07:50. | |
of 100 billion of debt, the reflection shows to people to get | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
closure. So what they've always up to now done is design the bail out | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
in a way there's strong surveillance, so you can keep doing | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
what you're supposed to do. This is based on the idea it would be a | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
stable coalition Government. Or a stable single party Government | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
after an election, once you realise that's not going to happen, things | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
get wobblely. And what is clear, from document leaked to the | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
Financial Times overnight was that the at some point in the last day, | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
they started to think, maybe what we do is give them a bit of money, | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
bit of the bail out, and then make them have an election, a Government | :08:24. | :08:31. | |
that signs up to doing it, and keep the money here, ready to as it | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
where give it like the right thing and hold. A bail out could be | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
designed to save the banks, to save Europe, but almost to say take or | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
leave saving Greece. We've seen the trouble in the streets. But what | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
are they worried about in terms of Greek politics in the month or two | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
ahead? They're worried the two main party are fragmented, the PASOK was | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
down to 8%, it was a Government six months ago. A New Democracy lost | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
some MPs and its plans are about, maybe they want innovative, | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
Conservative idea, plait tax or want to do more massively more | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
privatisation than planned, 50 billion. When you listens to them, | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
and think are they able to do it, and are they able to form a | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
majority, and the answer is pretty clearly no. You have two choices, | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
once the elections start, these party, big traditional party, who | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
will be pulled toward their base, it will be hard for them to form a | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
coherent Government, and the European Union thought if they | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
can't form a coherent Government to negotiate after the election, they | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
said they net a technocratic Government, the Prime Minister has | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
been accused of a Goldman Sachs, the present politicians would not | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
get an interview with the Goldman Sachs and that's what the European | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
Union is worried, the competence issue. That's the background, I'm | :09:55. | :10:03. | |
joined by the Conservative MEP, and leader in the European Parliament, | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
Martin Callahan, Ralph Brinkhaus who sits on the finance committee, | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
and Athens, by the Greek Prime Minister's adviser, George | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
Pagoulatos. George Pagoulatos, listening to all that, do you fear | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
that the mood is absolutely changing, and that some people want | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
to edge Greece out of the eurozone? Well, I can understand that the | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
mood may be changing, in some circles, but let's not forget | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
Greece is undergoing the most painful adjustment programme that | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
has been applied in the eurozone. It is a programme that is causing a | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
lot of pain in Greek society, but it is delivering results. The | :10:43. | :10:49. | |
primary budget deficit has been cut down by 18 billion. This is down, | :10:49. | :10:55. | |
reduction by 19 billion, reduction of nearly, above 8% of GDP. | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
Competitiveness is catching up. Many of the adjustment target are | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
being met. And a few days ago, an extremely painful reform, | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
adjustment reform programme was passed from the Parliament, with | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
two-thirds majority, as a solid majority in Greek society, backing | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
the country's commitment to the Euro. That's what it is all about. | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
Well, Ralph Brinkhaus, do you believe, as the German Finance | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
Minister, suggested that Greece still, despite all that, is a | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
bottomless pit. Because many of your German colleagues seem to do | :11:29. | :11:35. | |
so? Yes, that's right. But it depends on the people in Greece, if | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
it is a pit or not. Because, the Greek people, and the Greek | :11:40. | :11:46. | |
politicians have to help us now. They have to help us, to build up | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
credibility, because we need this credibility to argue with our | :11:51. | :11:58. | |
people in Germany, that we can spend or better we can invest money | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
in Greece. Do you sense, Ralph Brinkhaus the mood has changed in | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
Germany? The rhetoric has changed the opinion poll, suggesting that | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
many Germans feel the Euro would stpaif if Greece would be pushed | :12:13. | :12:19. | |
out? That's a good question. If the mood has changed so far. I think we | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
are now, at the brink, in a discussion, and there is a certain | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
line, and we should not pass this line. We will pass this line, if we | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
continue in negotiating with Greek Government, until the very end of | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
the night, until the very end of the day, and in the last minute, | :12:38. | :12:46. | |
getting a solution. This is not good, because politicians and also | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
markets do not like surprises, so what we need is credibility. We | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
have to build up this credibility, and if not, we would certainly pass | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
this line. Yes. Well Mr Callahan from where | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
you sit, the mood is clearly changing a bit in Germany. Do you | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
think it changing in other places too, Finland, the Netherlands, in | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
other words some of the northern European countries getting rather | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
fed up? I think the evidence is they're getting very fed up with it. | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
They're imposing conditions after conditions on Greece, and when we | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
meet or say they're going to meet the latest conditions, the new ones | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
are dreamed up. And it is obvious the finance ministers, or some of | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
them have an agenda, now they've put the fire walls in place, that | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
Greece is only 2% of the eurozone, they could actually ask Greece to | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
leave. Actually it is now becoming increasingly obvious, this is in | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
Greece's interest as well. They're going to be faced with years, and | :13:43. | :13:50. | |
years, not just a few months, of grinding austerity to itchment 30% | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
of devaluation in cut in wages and welfare benefit and pensions, and | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
after all of that, by 2020, if they meet all the targets and they | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
haven't met any target yet, they would be back to approximately that | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
Italy is now. It is unsustainable in the long-term. It is | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
destabilising the whole of Europe, we need to get on and ask them to | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
leave. George Pagoulatos, we need to get | :14:14. | :14:21. | |
on and ask them to leave, you are 2% of GDP, it is looking grim isn't | :14:21. | :14:27. | |
it is this I'm not sure that being fed up is a good guide for sound | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
policy decisions. Ask for credibility, Greece's Government | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
now led by Christos Papoutsis, Governor exECB vice-chairman, he | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
has never been with Goldman Sachs by the way, he has always been a | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
civil servant. This is a Government backed by the two main party. It is | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
behind, solidly behind it is a majority of Greek society, which | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
stands for a Greece's commitment to the Euro, and is ready to take | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
whatever is necessary in order to consolidate our position. Why, | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
sorry to interrupt. May I ask you, why was your President so | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
irritateed today by what he saw as an insult from Germany. Was it the | :15:08. | :15:14. | |
bottomless pit remark, what is it that got at him? Well I think, | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
European countries and European political leaders, should bemay | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
have with a degree of solidarity and respect with each other that | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
comes with being members of the European Union. Let me say that... | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
Are you not getting that respect? This is a specific programme. I | :15:32. | :15:38. | |
think, it is beside the main point, the main point we are following an | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
adjustment programme, and the main thing that is driving this painful | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
adjustment programme is the understanding that any alternative | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
would be far more disastrous. It is broadly understood in Greek society, | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
including... Disasters for Greece. With the | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
exception of the Communist Party:. Perhaps not disastrous for the | :15:59. | :16:05. | |
eurozone. Let me come to that. It has been | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
said it is less disastrous today than it was a year ago. I can abide | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
by that. But it is still extremely destabilising for any member state | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
to depart the eurozone. That would be the beginning of the unravelling | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
of the eurozone. It would be the beginning of a slippery slope. It | :16:23. | :16:29. | |
would create a panic of the depositers of the banking system. | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
Speculatetors and market would speculate who would be next, it | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
would create enormous instability and that is why the same decision | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
made by the European council has been to keep the per I have rif | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
within the eurozone at any cost, because any cost would be any cost | :16:47. | :16:53. | |
if any country would be wanting to exit. Ralph Brinkhaus that is the | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
view of the Olli Rehn, The Commissioner. It would be | :16:56. | :17:02. | |
disastrous for the eurozone if Greece left do you agree? Partly. | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
Let me say that we have to take care for Greece anyway, within the | :17:08. | :17:10. | |
eurozone, within the European Union or outside the European Union. So | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
we have to pay the bill, and at the very end of the day, Germany that | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
is to pay the highest amount of this bill. So, we have to seven for | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
a good solution. And we are not sure whether it is better solution, | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
to get an uncontrolled default, and taking care to take care of Greece | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
of wards or organise it in a way that everybody can stand. It is | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
true the banking system is better prepared for default of Greece than | :17:40. | :17:48. | |
it was 12 months ago. I guess, even the governments are better prepared | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
for this. Sorry to interrupt, you said something interesting there. | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
Are you saying it would be possible, for Greece to leave the eurozone, | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
but Germany and other countries would still make arrangements to | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
look after Greece, so that is a possibility? It would not be the | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
better way. Because, I guess it will be a much harder for the | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
people in Greece take thg way. But, it could be a way, if they leave. | :18:18. | :18:24. | |
This is very important because there are some rumours, these days, | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
Germany never would demand from the Greek people to get out. Germany is | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
not in the position to demand it, and we will nef do it. So, it is | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
their own decision. Let me bring in Mr Callahan. We understand, that | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
Germany, we're all prisoners of our histories. Germany has been polite | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
publicly about this, but it may be, people are taking a similar view in | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
Germany, to the one you expressed which the Greeks should get out? | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
have spoken to a lot of German politicians who say exactly that. | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
Germany is in a difficult position, I sympathise greatly, they feel | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
they've acted honourablely but now face with the a fundamental choice. | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
Are they prepared to spend large amounts of their taxpayers' money | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
on proping up Greece. I'm not talking about lops, but direct | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
fiscal transfers, because that's what is required to make monetary | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
union between two different economies to make it work correctly. | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
It seems to me F the Germans are not prepared to do that, and all | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
the evidence is they aren't, let's take on the difficult decisions. | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
The uncertainty is destabilising the rest of Europe, and faecking | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
the UK, even though we are not part of the Euro. But, it is unsettling | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
everybody, I think my view is the finance ministers have decided | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
they're going to ask Greece to leave. Let's get on with this, and | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
end the uncertainty of bail out of bailouts. Thank you all very much. | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
Now, when we think of Egypt we think of the pyramids, a modern | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
functioning state and a people who risked their lives to get rid of a | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
tyrant. It is a shock to discover the latest figures show more than | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
90% of Egyptian people suffered female genital mutilation, highest | :20:12. | :20:19. | |
rate anywhere in the world. So it is an official ban on the mission | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
five years ago, there has been a campaign not to mutilate their | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
daughters. But the political upheavals, it is felt, could set | :20:29. | :20:39. | |
:20:39. | :20:45. | ||
them back. You may find the report It is scarcely believeable as you | :20:45. | :20:51. | |
mingle among the evening shoppers in Cairo, with the appearance of | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
any other cosmopolitan city anywhere in the world, that nearly | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
all the women here have been deliberately mutilateed. New | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
figures due out later this year are expect today show a decline on a | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
number of at the malmutilations, four years after the ban was | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
introduced. But they'll still indicate a majority of women in | :21:11. | :21:17. | |
this country, suffer huge, physical, psychological and unjustified pain. | :21:17. | :21:26. | |
And are denied what most women would regard as a normal sex life. | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
Upper Egypt, where the landscape along the Nile hasn't changed in | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
centuries. Nor have the tradition which | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
believes that a family of honour is dependent on the removal of those | :21:38. | :21:45. | |
parts of a girl's body that might arouse sexual desire. To challenge | :21:45. | :21:51. | |
such a blaef in an environment in which sex is nef spoken about in | :21:51. | :21:57. | |
public, campaigner, Nivine Rasmi goes from house-to-house. Talking | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
to people is what we do. We have to know how to reach out to people and | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
discuss this issue with them. a village where Muslims live side | :22:06. | :22:16. | |
:22:16. | :22:17. | ||
by side with Christians, and both communities practice FGM. | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
TransI've had problems in my sexual relationship with my husband | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
because of it it. So when it was explained about the health come | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
employee cases and not part of religious faith, I'm convinced I | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
don't want my daughter circumcised. But the Muslim mother next door is | :22:37. | :22:44. | |
not. The The two older girl cousins have been mutilate and her 11-year- | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
old daughter will be next. TRANSLATION: I will remove this | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
part of her body instead of letting her play with herself, or she might | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
ask a boy to touch this part and might enjoy it. It might be a | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
stranger or one of her male cousins, so this will protect her, and when | :23:04. | :23:10. | |
she'll feel the pain of it, she'll be more careful about this part. | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
Oven it is the husband's family who demand it. Mothers say they can't | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
get their daughters, married without it. | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
TRANSLATION: No-one comes and checks, these days the midwife | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
arrives secretly, does it and leaves in a hurry, so no-one sees | :23:27. | :23:35. | |
her, because it is illegal. But we found nothing secretive about the | :23:35. | :23:42. | |
village midwife. TRANSLATION: Circumcision is | :23:42. | :23:49. | |
healthy for girls, I know this. Pure fiedgirls grow taller and get | :23:49. | :23:55. | |
marriage proposals, but unpure fiedstay short and stuby. Some | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
mothers say they don't want her daughters pure fied, they humour | :23:59. | :24:07. | |
her, but once she's gone they ask me to circum size their girls. | :24:07. | :24:13. | |
I have her mother, her aunt or neighbour, hold her while I cut her. | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
It doesn't take a minute. I cut three parts. I cut the lower part | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
first, so the blood doesn't run down from the upper part. And after, | :24:23. | :24:33. | |
:24:33. | :24:33. | ||
I show the two cut part to the mother, I cut the upper part. | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
you enjoy your work? TRANSLATION: I love it. Like my own | :24:38. | :24:46. | |
eyes, because I need the money. Take me to prison if you want to, | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
take me anywhere, but I will keep circumcising girls, I want the | :24:51. | :24:58. | |
money. And so why doesn't a girl who works | :24:58. | :25:04. | |
for a local NGO take the woman to a police station? | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
TRANSLATION: Who are we gck to report to, in police stations we | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
report to an officer who believes in the custom and is probably doing | :25:14. | :25:20. | |
it to his own daughters. Without support from the authority, | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
campaigners take the message into the classroom. They engage children | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
at a young age to gain their confidence and when they're older | :25:29. | :25:38. | |
they talk about FGM. Salma says she saved more than a hundred girls | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
this way. She's motivated by what happened to her. | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
TRANSLATION: They did my elder sister first. I was the middle and | :25:48. | :25:54. | |
the youngest was after me. The midwife came with two accomplices | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
and bound me by my hands and feet so she could hold me down. I tried | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
to hit one of them but couldn't. I was only ten. | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
I screamed, but they gaged me, so my little sister would not hear the | :26:07. | :26:14. | |
pain. Afterwards I screamed all day. I spent two days recovering, it was | :26:14. | :26:22. | |
terrible. To this day I shudder from the memory. She invited 13- | :26:22. | :26:29. | |
year-old Zaba whose older sister had been mutilated to her teaching. | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
TRANSLATION: I spoke to my mum and told her everything I learned from | :26:34. | :26:39. | |
Salma. I spoke to her politely to convince her. Luckily it worked. | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
There are no benefits to circumcision, people think that way. | :26:43. | :26:53. | |
:26:53. | :26:54. | ||
Once I explained the harm it causes she was convinced. Because people | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
believe it is part of their faith, campaigners appeal to local | :27:00. | :27:06. | |
religious leaders for help. They try, they say, but, it is difficult | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
to change people. TRANSLATION: The main challenge is | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
tradition. In the Old Testament when God ordered Abraham to | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
circumcise, it was only for boys, there was no mention of female | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
circumcision, but in our tradition, it is performed on girls as well. | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
We pray that God will help us in reaching people with the truth. | :27:29. | :27:35. | |
local 78 man splaipd that Muslim leaders are trying hard to get the | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
message heard. TRANSLATION: We are now spreading | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
the word against FGM because it is against our faith for this part of | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
a woman to be seen by anybody else. Which are' telling people not to do | :27:46. | :27:56. | |
it. It appeared the local religious leaders were in agreement, this | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
will the arrival of a more senior cleric. Refusing to look at me, he | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
gave me his view. TRANSLATION: The prophet did it, | :28:06. | :28:12. | |
peace be with him. So this thing is legalised by Islamic law. Egypt's | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
most senior religious figure, issueed a fatwa, against FGM a few | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
years ago, and yet those below him contradict one another. No wonder | :28:22. | :28:32. | |
:28:32. | :28:41. | ||
Whatever stand religious leaders might take, female genital | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
mutilation is a milla old tradition here. It was said it was practised | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
the age of the Pharaohs, well before Christianity arrived in | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
Egypt. It is built into the national psyche and those trying | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
admits it will be very hard to remove. | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
It is like a needle. With this, they can bring the clit Ross | :29:02. | :29:09. | |
outside to cut it. And the other two needles, they put one on the | :29:09. | :29:19. | |
Libya and the other Libya, and stretch it out, so they can cut it. | :29:19. | :29:25. | |
Dr Randa Fakhr El Din runs a MGO in Cairo. They says half the cases | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
they comes across are type one, removal of the clitoris and the | :29:30. | :29:37. | |
rest is the removal of the clitoris and labia, both procedures, carry | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
risks. TRANSLATION: Some of the immediate | :29:41. | :29:48. | |
come employee cases include bleeding, infections from insterile | :29:48. | :29:53. | |
tools. Severe pain, that can lead to body shock, all these can cause | :29:53. | :30:01. | |
the girl to die. We witness come employee cases later on, female | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
circumcision, means these women next reach organism, this means | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
withdrawing from sex from the husband, which means problems in | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
the marriage: Paradoxically, deaths have increased since the practice | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
was banned. TRANSLATION: In some cases, parents | :30:22. | :30:27. | |
don't seek medical care, even if their daughter suffers severe come | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
employee cases, in which case it becomes too late to save their | :30:31. | :30:37. | |
lives. Girls die because their parents are afraid of prosecution. | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
But how much longer will parents be afraid of the law? We were told a | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
crowd gathered outside a house where we'd been filming, after we | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
left, and yelled abuse at the women, saying "they shouldn't talk to | :30:50. | :30:58. | |
foreigners about such traditional matters". A wave of xenophobia and | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
traditionalism, engulfed Egypt since the fall of Mubarak regime. | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
TRANSLATION: It appears new Parliament will oppose laws against | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
FGM because some extremists disagree with laws that protect | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
women and children. We are sure we will see a decline in women and | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
children's right. I asked the spokesman for the sal faffy party, | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
the most extreme of the party, whether they would be supporting | :31:29. | :31:35. | |
the campaign against FGM? This is not a priority. There are more | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
urgent issues involving women. No- one will force women to do | :31:42. | :31:48. | |
something they wouldn't do anything to do. You wouldn't deter a woman | :31:48. | :31:57. | |
to get her daughter mutilated? have nothing to say on this matter. | :31:57. | :32:03. | |
This girl will be mutilate. Well the International Development | :32:03. | :32:11. | |
Minitster, Stephen O'Brien is in our Salford stueed studio. What do | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
you think the British Government's role can help to stop this? This is | :32:16. | :32:22. | |
critical but neglected issue, which deserves global attention. I salute | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
Sue Lloyd-Roberts for that, in bringing attention to the wider | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
public, a very serious issue, on which we have been very focused and | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
the UK people, through the various things we support, be that UNICEF | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
or the UN population fund are working in many countries, where | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
this is still practised. And, to find out Egypt has apparently 90% | :32:45. | :32:52. | |
of their women who have been cut, equally we have similar figures in | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
Somalia. I have myself seen to see a wonderful charity in Senegal | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
which manage today secure,00 villages, now to be female genital | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
mutilation-free. This is all to do with working very hard through the | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
communities themselves, very much led in Africa, by community leaders, | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
oven men, but above all this is getting into the traditions and | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
embedded cultures, particularly of women. There's less evidence this | :33:20. | :33:26. | |
is demanded by men, this is more to do with women's perceptions of | :33:26. | :33:35. | |
daughters being stigmatised. Do you see an obvious ironic, Suzanne | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
Mubarak was one that campaigned against this, they brought this in, | :33:38. | :33:46. | |
and things might get worse, despite the benefit of Arab springs bring | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
to Egypt? You are right, the first ladies of many of the countries, | :33:49. | :33:55. | |
are one of the largest of role models, that we need to make sure | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
are well on with this campaign to recognise in the interest of girls | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
and womens health and rights, this is a practice which needs to come | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
to an end. It is the abandonment through action, clearly the laws | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
have been passed but it is getting the culture and tradition to be | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
banned within the culture themselves. It could actually get | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
worse? It could be more conservative and people could | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
return to the traditional routes. That was part of the what Sue | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
suggested there. This won't be a negative sequence of the Arab | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
Spring and revolution in Egypt. It is clearly being going on both | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
within Muslim and Christian communities, it's been going on for | :34:40. | :34:46. | |
over 2,000 years. It doesn't appeared to be allied to a | :34:46. | :34:53. | |
religious issue, it is a cult tuerl embedded suggest with women. The | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
stigma with marriage, it isn't the husband or husband tobacco | :34:57. | :35:04. | |
demanding that girls, women should be cut, the the morm who inspects | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
who has been to let her son consummate the marriage. It is | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
within the female communities, from their point of view,not an act of | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
violence, but it is in the girl's best interest as they see it. We | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
have to stand up to the right for the choices available and the right | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
advice is working. The charity I saw in Senegal, which we support | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
through the anti-slavery charity, is one which is showing us the way | :35:31. | :35:38. | |
it can strongly encourage us, just as 20 years it took to get rid of | :35:38. | :35:46. | |
Chinese foot binding, 20 years ago. Our Arab Spring watch continues | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
tomorrow where Mark reports on the anniversary of the first uprising | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
there. If the Westminster Government insisted minimum price | :35:53. | :36:01. | |
on a unit of alcohol, say 45 pence or so, in Scotland T could prevent | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
a thousand premature deaths, and prevent some of the social ills, to | :36:05. | :36:12. | |
boozey Britain. But it could mean a big jump in cheap sizeer, begin and | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
voted karks and problems with yuefpbkochtigs law. With David | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
Cameron talking of the scandal of alcohol abuse, is the Government | :36:22. | :36:28. | |
fixing prices a good idea? We investigate. Politicians know | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
exactly what a tragic impact, low or no price booze can have. They've | :36:32. | :36:39. | |
been to the party conferences. Free bar there can turn the driest | :36:39. | :36:45. | |
think-tank fest into the last days of Rome. Prime Minister today, | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
visiting a hospital in the north- east of England, saying he's | :36:49. | :36:56. | |
worried about what he calls the "scandal of increasing public | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
drunkenness". I have been impressed where there's a police officer on | :36:59. | :37:05. | |
duty on a Thursday, Friday and Saturday night. I want local powers | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
can close down bars, it is against the law to sell to people who are | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
drunk, or underage, you can close down bars. But we need to look at | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
the issues of pricing and how we handle alcohol in hospital as well. | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
We're going to take action across the board, this is a national | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
problem. The Government put the cost of dealing with alcohol | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
problems, for the Department of Health at �2.7 billion. A billion | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
of that, on zept and emergency services. | :37:34. | :37:39. | |
The wider cost to society, which take in everything from days missed | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
at work, to extra policing, are, says the Government between �17 | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
billion and �22 billion a year. Last year, there were almost | :37:49. | :37:56. | |
200,000 hospital admissions with what is called a primary alcohol | :37:56. | :38:01. | |
related diagnosis, up 40% since 200. In prewar Britain, public | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
drunkenness was unheard of. There was the occasional bar fight, but | :38:06. | :38:12. | |
that was met with what modern crime fighters, explained as a "zero | :38:12. | :38:22. | |
:38:22. | :38:23. | ||
tolerance" approach. Licensing has in fact got more relaxed. With the | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
Labour Party, ending standard licensing hours in 2005. A move | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
designed to bring in the cafe culture. My view is that the law | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
abiding majority, who want the ability, after going, say to the | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
cinema or theatre to have a drink at the time they want, should not | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
be inconvenienced, we should not have no restrictions that no other | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
city has. Britain has gone through whole boughted drunkenness before, | :38:52. | :39:01. | |
in the 1851 work, Begin skarks lane. What hasn't changed is the | :39:01. | :39:07. | |
political how do you stop those who take an otherwise popular activity | :39:07. | :39:14. | |
to excess without annoying the majority who don't. Nick worked for | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
Tony Blair whilst I was trying to tackle baing drinking. I remember a | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
day in Downing Street, when you go around these issues, you have to | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
impose extra cost, and I have advisers, saying what does that | :39:30. | :39:37. | |
mean a person brinking home cheap beer for BBQ, and the wine club, | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
those are the pressures. current Government is supposed to | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
be considering introducing a minimum price for a unit of alcohol. | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
It would suggest, some, tackle one aspect of modern drinking, that's | :39:51. | :39:57. | |
the people who preload on cheap booze at home before going out. | :39:57. | :40:04. | |
date yea is students are spending less money on going in the town and | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
socialising, however what they are doing is managing to spend more | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
time at home bf they go out for a night out. Roughly, students are | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
spending �7.50 on drinking before they go out for a night out. So | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
students will find other ways, which is why the minimum pricing | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
can be important. Minimum pricing for alcohol is already being | :40:23. | :40:29. | |
introduced in Scotland. But, ending cheap supermarket booze, won't | :40:29. | :40:35. | |
necessarily be politically popular, particularly now when so many | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
household budget are stretched. I'm joined by Professor Mark Bellis in | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
favour of minimum pricing of alcohol, and Helen Lederer who | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
likes the occasional drink. One thing that strikes me, whatever you | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
may say in favour of this, isn't it going to work out a tax on the poor. | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
It tends the poorer people will pay, because they will drink some of | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
those drinks? It is actually the poor that stand the best benefits | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
from this. They're the ones, suffering from alcohol relate | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
problems at the moment. If we reduce the levels of consumption, | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
some of the communities, we might see less crime, we'll see better | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
health, they can benefit a lot. If we worey about the poor, some of | :41:14. | :41:20. | |
the taxes we make on the �22 billion that costs society, we can | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
put that back in the inequality and that will doo more good than | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
worrying when they can get drunk. What do you think about this, we're | :41:30. | :41:36. | |
aware of any city at night, you see drunkenness? I can't disagree on | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
most facts, in the sense excessive dripging causes a lot of disease, | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
that one would wish to be available. But is there that much evidence | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
that people have drinking that much more than how they used to? This is | :41:50. | :41:56. | |
a bit of a data bury bad news, and it is alarming that David Cameron | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
is talking about cells to put drink people in. We're sensationalising | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
young drunk people with television programmes and pack yaiblging, as | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
we do with the gypsy wedding, we're talking about the culture. And I | :42:08. | :42:13. | |
don't understand all the money that's gone into research, | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
campaigns, that really aren't impactful at all. Like drinking for | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
two days. Not drinking for two days? Not drinking, the point is we | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
all drink. Most people drink, if you don't want to, that's fine. | :42:29. | :42:34. | |
However horrible it may be at the edges, it is part of our culture | :42:34. | :42:41. | |
and has been for hundreds of years? Yes. In the early 870s, we were | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
drinking 50% less than we're drinking now. And people weren't | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
saying we're drinking enough. We've seen an increase, we're drinking | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
more, decades more, seen increaseness consumption, we're | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
paying the price for those, not just in health, but the pressures | :42:57. | :43:03. | |
on the health services and amount of money people are paying in taxes | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
to help health and criminal justice services. I don't buy this. Why is | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
all the statistics, I don't have the backing that you have, and the | :43:11. | :43:17. | |
jb you have, and I'm not sheer to fiscally sort out the fiscal cost | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
to the NHS. The human cost is there should be more employment and today | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
the headlines is about massive youth unemployment. And young | :43:25. | :43:32. | |
people drink. When I was a student, well I drink now. I dripg when I | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
want to drink. And sometimes too much? Yes but that's normal, and | :43:37. | :43:43. | |
you can wake up the next morning, when you say "oh goodness what did | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
I say" that's part of society. Abusive problems, which is your job | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
to be concerned about, I respect that, but the headlines have gone | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
mad today. Do you think, I wonder whether, people don't say this, but | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
whether as a society this, is the price we're prepared to pay for the | :43:59. | :44:04. | |
way that we are? It is terrible, we could save money, lives and all | :44:04. | :44:09. | |
kinds of human misery, but we are apparently, prepared to pay this | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
price? I don't think people know the price they're paying, it is | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
over �0 billion in the cost to our society in terms of alcohol. If | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
people want to pay that price that, should be reflected on the price | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
they pay for alcohol. A child's pocket money, is not enough to get | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
drunk in a week. So, let's make sure people can enjoy alcohol in | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
moderation, a night outs certainly, but they don't have to suffer from | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
the problems, that city centres are full of drunk people. Is this the | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
best way? There are all other kinds of things that have been suggested? | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
Is this the best option? fairest option is put in a minimum | :44:52. | :44:59. | |
price in. That will bring down the consumption of the most vulnerable | :44:59. | :45:05. | |
groups joox if you want to drink or want to smoke or eat a doughnut, | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
which I want to do all three, accept I don't smoke, I will find a | :45:10. | :45:17. | |
way to find a doughnut. We've gone, I just, this is the wrong focus. I | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
think we should be looking at emphasising, that stress can be | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
relieved by drinking, plus, we should put positive images on the | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
television, about people who are not drunk. Why don't we look at the | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
broader way of examining social messages, that just putting up | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
vodka, and increasing the profit margin of supermarket that don't | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
need it. We have plenty of positive messages on television, the alcohol | :45:45. | :45:51. | |
industry make sure we look at that. But we don't see the cancers, | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
domestic violence, and illness and criminal justice system. | :45:55. | :46:02. | |
Now, there's a new line in the story Newsnight broke S public | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
servants paid through companies, likely to reduce the amount they | :46:06. | :46:12. | |
would tai. The student loan company was using this tech teak technique, | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
and 5 people working at the Department of Health is looking at | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
this story. The problem for the Department of Health is in a | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
written answer to a parliamentary question, said no members of staff | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
were being paid in this way to a limited company, tax efficient | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
likely for the person involved. The Guardian have the e-mails that are | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
allegeed to show, 25 people in the department, mainly senior people, | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
are being paid in this way, and while they may not be technically | :46:40. | :46:46. | |
be staff of the department, they've been there for many years. They've | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
e-mails showing the departmental civil servants having a somewhat | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
thick of it style discussion about how to avoid revealing this, so | :46:55. | :47:01. | |
they've apologised tonight and the review is under way. That's we have | :47:01. | :47:11. | |
:47:11. | :47:14. | ||
time for. From all of us here good Body body hello there. It looks | :47:14. | :47:24. | |
:47:24. | :47:26. | ||
like turning colder this weekend. A reasonable day across the | :47:26. | :47:33. | |
southern half of the UK. We will have a weather front edging down to | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
northern England. But for the Midlands, and East Anglia, I won't | :47:37. | :47:43. | |
rule out a shower, but mostly stay fine. A bit of a breeze, but not as | :47:43. | :47:48. | |
strong as it has been today. Brightness hanging on across the | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
south-east of Wales. Further north and west, it will cloud up. For | :47:54. | :48:00. | |
Northern Ireland, rain now and again, particularly further west | :48:00. | :48:07. | |
you'll go. After a wet start across Scotland, it will head southwards | :48:07. | :48:14. | |
and clear up. So, looking further ahead across northern areas, more | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
rain to come, before things will change brighter and colder before | :48:19. | :48:23. |