06/08/2012 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.

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Is today the day the coalition started to fall apart. Nick Clegg


accuses the Conservatives of breaking the contract between the


two parties over House of Lords reform, and freezes MPs to go ahead


and scupper Tory plans for boundary changes. In this tit for tat war,


has whatever trust there once was now gone for good. The deputy


leader of the Lib Dems, a story MP and a Labour Lord will tell us


whether they think the coalition has hit the skids.


Assad sad forces pound Aleppo, a Sunni Prime Minister defects and


joins the rebellion. Diplomacy asphaltered, the indications on the


ground -- has faltered and the indications on the ground is things


are getting worse. A year ago the sound of breaking


glass, now the sound of medals, are we living in a different kind of


country a year on? Indignant, slighted, sulky, there


was lots of ways to interp pret Nick Clegg today, faul calling a


mere lover'sive is not one of them. This is a big falling out. The


deputy PM is angry that David Cameron won't coral his


backbenchers, and he lashed out and said the Tories had broken their


coalition contract, and said Liberal Democrats will turn their


back on legislation to cut the number of MPs in parliament. Our we


report, the fight, the timing and the territory all point to a deeper


political malaise. They have been learning at the feet of masters


this summer, despite ring side seats for them all, the coalition


Government seem not to have absorbed the olympian ethos, it is


not the winning that counts, but the taking part, right? This summer


Tories and Lib Dems have unwittingly turned the max sim


upside down, for coalition politics now, it doesn't seem the taking


part in Government that counts, but winning with your own party.


Elegant gold rooms, backed with journalism's Usain Bolt, are rarely


convened in the summer. But David Cameron' shelfing of Lords reform


weeks ahead of schedule heralded a new day in the coalition. After two


years we don't have the Commons majority to ensure this bill


progresses through parliament. It is obvious the bill's opponents


would now seek to inflict on it a slow death. The coalition partners


have been miffed by each other before, but it was what he went on


to say that is materially new. Liberal Democrats are proving


ourselves to be a mature and competent party of Government. But


the Conservative Party is not honouring the commitment to Lords


reform. As a result part of our contract has now been broken.


Clearly, I cannot permit a situation where Conservative rebels


can pick and choose the parts of the contract they like, while


Liberal Democrat MPs are bound to the entire agreement. So I have


told the Prime Minister that when, in due course, parliament votes on


boundary changes for the 2015 election, Liberal Democrats in


parliament will oppose them. Blocking boundary reforms, the


moves that reduce constituency numbers and reshape Britain's


political map now makes it harder for the Conservatives to win a


majority. But the tit for tat is more about how the coalition works


than the policy that now looks like it has died. No sooner had Nick


Clegg pronounced, than Conservative MPs pointed out that his new


settlement allowed his ministers to break the Code of Conduct,


something their ministers had not been allowed to do. I think that


people will be drawing conclusions about the principles that the


liberals are operating on. On the Lords reform rebellion, which was


obviously smaller than the liberal rebellion on tuition fees, our PPS


has resigned -- resigned, they did that on principle, they thought it


was the right thing to do, they couldn't go through the coalition


lobby on that night. The liberals are not really getting that. They


are part of this coalition Government, they need to support


the coalition Government, so their behaviour is, yes, very odd.


The Deputy Prime Minister does not operate in a vacuum, or if he does


it is one sucking him towards the annual gathering of his


increasingly depressed activists at party conference. Figureheads on


the left are clear what he must do. Boundaries are the bare minimum,


nobody should be surprised that Liberal Democrats won't support the


boundary reforms now, they were part of a package that included


House of Lords reform. Yeah, this is just the beginning. The


coalition agreement has been broken, it is an historic moment. It is the


first time that the coalition agreement has been challenged, and


it is by the Conservatives, they are the one that is have failed to


deliver on what was supposed to be a programme for Government. Now,


all gloves are off. The Liberal Democrats can choose what they want


and what they don't want, and I think you could see some issues


which we thought had been passed, for example, the NHS bill, there is


still secondary legislation to come. No reason why we can't oppose that


now if we choose to. You will eLiberal Democrats putting forward


new ideas which weren't in the coalition agreement much more. And


selecting bits of the coalition agreement they like and saying, you


know what, we don't have to do what you ask us to any more, because you


haven't kept your side of the bargain. What about that general


election? Any sooner? It's still something that both sides try to


warn each other off. The Tories say to their Lib Dem colleagues that if


they go to the polls any time soon, they are likely to face a drubbing,


equally the Lib Dems say to their Tory colleagues, that actually, if


it is anyone likely to be in Government after the next election,


it is them. They can form a coalition with Labour, it is


unlikely the Tories would ever countenance that. The party base


may be bellicose, but the high command hope the extraordinary


voting arrangement initiated today, doesn't become ordinary. Perilously


close to being half out of Government. While you were dazzled


by the gold medals rising in the east, in the west a new dawn was


settling in. Both will deny the importance of it, saying they are


graciously taking part in Government, not want to go win over


backbenches both coalitions leaders are diminished today, unable to get


their way. With me are Simon Hughes, the


deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats, the Conservative MP, and


Cameron loyalist, Nick Boles, and Lord Falconer. If the gloves are


really off, just to be clear, Lib Dem MPs, and ministers, are going


to vote against boundary reform, is that the case? If an order is


brought forward, which it doesn't have to be. David Cameron has made


it clear it will happen? I haven't heard him say that today. The


answer to your question is yes, if it is brought forward we will vote


against it. All Liberal Democrat ministers, 19 of them, will vote


against. Of course, when Tory PPS s voted against House of Lords reform,


they resigned or were sacked. You will expect all Lib Dem ministers


to be sacked? I don't expect that. Forethe first time since the


coalition was formed one of the two parties has not honoured the


agreement. It was the Conservative Party who went off after the very


large vote in favour of the House of Lords in the Commons in July, he


had to address the rebellion, the Prime Minister said he had to talk


to backbenchers, he has come back to the Deputy Prime Minister and


said I cannot deliver my party on the coalition agreement. So, in


fact, David Cameron is the one who has failed, and he is the one who


has broken the agreement? I voted for House of Lords reform, as did


the vast majority of Conservative MPs, and all Conservative minutes


tirs and PPSs. The fact is they are there were a lot of backbench


members, and they make up their own mind about legislation. David


Cameron cannot control his backbench? Party leaders can never


control, they can win the support and approval, on the vast majority


of issues, every single other item that has come before the House, the


party, broadly, with a few exceptions, has supported it. This


one, not strictly in terms in the coalition agreement. That is the


basis of the Government the coalition agreement? It was


negotiated after Members of Parliament were elected, there are


a lot of Conservative MPs, I disagree with them. I regret what


they did. They felt, they felt that they had not made a pledge to the


people who voted them into office to put forward this piece of


legislation. They had very genuine constitutional kefrs concerns about


it. Do you think the coalition has been broken? It has been broken, I


don't think Nick is denying that. None of us went to the electorate


on the coalition agreement, we went on three manifestos, all three


party's leaderships agreed there needed to be a House of Lords that


was not hereditary, but elected. We did a deal, both sides, the


leadership signed it, it was both parties, and it included House of


Lords reform. What do you think of the idea that Lib Dem MPs, but


ministers, Liberal Democrat ministers, who vote against the


boundary changes, reducing the number of MPs, should they be


sacked? I hope they don't do it. It would be a very odd thing to do.


They should be sacked if they do? It is an odd thing to. Do there are


seats in this country, my seat, Simon's seat have 76,000 electorate


in it, and other MPs have under 60,000. It would be odd for a


Liberal Democrat to decide a fair democracy is based on seats of such


unequal size. They will make their minds up as we did on House of


Lords reform. He expects ministers to vote against it, Nick Clegg


expects them to vote against it. They are part of this coalition


Government, they are going to vote against the Government, should they


be sacked? I would reget that just as much as I regret the fact that


my colleagues voted against House of Lords reform. The British people


would look pretty oddly at both of us, if either of us looked like we


would jeopardise the stability of the Government, for the sake of a


row over parliamentary constituencies, or the House of


Lords. When we have got important bills, we have important bills on


special needs education, on enterprise reform, on banking


reform, these are vital national issues, on which we agree, we have


a lot of work to do, and the British people do not want us to


fall out over constituency boundaries which, frankly, benefit


only us. That might be true. Tory MPs. That might be true, but let me


ask you this, you are entirely in contradiction to what Simon Hughes


is saying. He's saying Liberal Democrat ministers will vote


against boundary changes if it comes back to the House? Should


they be sacked? If Tory PPSs are sacked for voting against the


Government, should Liberal Democrat MPs be sacked, yes or no? I would


regret if they did that, I'm not the Prime Minister and in charge of


sacking people. Let me make a point, there is lodge


nick our position, the whole idea of the reform of parliament would


make it more democratic, including the Lords, that is now not going to


happen. Part of the reason, let me just. To end up with fewer Members


of Parliament in the Commons, and no reform in the Lords would


clearly be illogical. Feel no obligation to ask me any questions


at all. I will say this, there is a bit of dirty work for Labour here,


you are all about the principle, and Lords reform, that would be the


most important thing, of this the new politics under Ed Miliband, you


are not supporting it either? never said it was the most


important thing, everybody agreed it was a terrible bill. The


obligation of parliamentarians was to say, that we said T we supported


the principle, but said we would improve it. It was so bad that it


couldn't even get 91 of his own backbenchers to support it. So


don't say to me they were obliged to support a bill as bad as that.


We made it clear we supported Lords reform, but not that bill. Surely


the point is, that you should move towards Lords reform, and therefore,


rather than just blocading? No, no, no, we should support a bill that


is worthwhile, we made it clear we supported the principle, not that


bill. Who did we have? 91 Tory MPs supporting it. It was very clear


from Nick Clegg's tone today that he was coriscating Labour's role in


this? Why do you think that is, he produced a bill he never did any


work today, that said that members of the House of Lords could stay


for 15 years and not be re-elected. That was said to be accountability.


He didn't do the work, and he got his come up pans. That is true, you


would agree with that. You were in power all the time u tried to get


Lords reform through and didn't deliver. We tried to get it through,


the reason was because people like you said we hadn't dealt with the


powers, and rightly so. The Labour Party, meant to be progressive,


when it comes to this bill, is unwilling to help a progressive


bill go through to the reform of the Lords. Only in principle.


talk about rebellion now, If Nick Clegg is giving Liberal Democrat


ministers the green light to rebel on the boundary changes, why not


let them rebel all the time. What exactly are they going to be loyal


about in this coalition. It seems to me, surely, this is a central


plank of the coalition, Lords reform is very much at the heart,


if you can't get this through, what is the point of the coalition?


agree with Nick about these things. The coalition was formed, not


because we wanted Lords reform, but because the country was in a mess


and we decided in the national interest to form a coalition. It is


a five-year deal, in the time up to now everything has been delivered,


and one thing cannot be delivered. Why the big fuss on the 6th of


August? It was clear last week that the Prime Minister said he couldn't


deliver the troops to the Deputy Prime Minister, there was rumbling,


and while most people want us to talk about jobs, growth and


apprenticeships and jobs. Where will it end, if you are saying


there will be no more accommodation. You have Liberal Democrat activists


very angry about the coalition and Tory backbenchers angry about the


coalition, how will it deliver? heard my friend David Hall Matthews


express a view, we have signed up to a five-year coalition agreement.


This is the first thing that hasn't been delivered, everything else has


been delivered, we haven't liked all of it, the Tories haven't liked


all of it, they should have delivered on this, that is their


problem, they need to sort out that problem. It just isn't their


problem, the electorate must look at it and say this is about


politicing, although it wasn't a 50-50 on the Lords reform ver rus


boundary changes, you are taking the opportunity -- versus boundary


changes, you are taking the opportunity. What should we do?


it is a better system for the country, you should work for the


good of the country? If the Tories can't deliver, what do you expect


us to do, say it is all very sad, sorry about this. You can't allow a


coalition to go ahead if both sides don't deliver. The message to the


Tories is they must deliver. Because they haven't, we can't do


the deal on boundary changes. a threat? They are an independent


party, they went into this, and we couldn't deliver it, it is


regretable, and it is regretable they won't deliver another part.


That is life. We will put it behind us, there are far more important


issues to work on. That is true. agree on those issues, we have a


plan to actually deal with those issues, unlike the last Government


which put us into this mess. We will get back to that serious work


and put this behind us. Thank you all very much indeed.


The Syrian city of Aleppo continues to be pounded by Government


artillery from the ground and air as the regime tries to dislodge


fighters from rebel held areas. But the morale of the free Syrian


Armley will have been boosted with the highest-level defection


yesterday from the Assad regime. The newly appointed Prime Minister,


Riad Hijab, a brutal law enforcer, has now been reported to have


crossed the border. TRANSLATION: Today I announce my defection from


killing and terrorism, join the ranks of the revolution and freedom


and dignity. From today I announce I'm a soldier serving this blessed


revolution, long live Syria free and pure, long live our free Syrian


people, long live our heroic Free Syrian Army.


I'm joined by our diplomatic editor, how widespread is the violence now


in Syria? It is very widespread. I think the key aspect of what's


happened in the last few weeks are escalation in terms of the military


conflict, and fragmentation of the country. In many senses, if we look


at the maps, we can plot it out geographically. The Free Syrian


Army, very strong now in the east of the country. Some people say the


Government's pretty much given up there. Pretty much given up


everything to the east or right of that line. But the Free Syrian Army


have also been very active in recent days around Damascus, Deraa,


Idlib, where they have been before, pushing into Aleppo, Homs has been


a strong point of their's, they are back in the town. We get the idea


increasingly of Government troops, with their garrisons in a sea of


incertificate rex of insurgecy. When that happens, -- incertificate


rex of insurgency They are going up there and being blocked by the


guerrillas, 20 miles north of Homs, we see the response escalate in


terms of the weaponry. This is video we have got, taken today,


near Rastan, this is what happens when men with guns block the


highway. The Syrian army, deploying ever-heavier fire power. Now, we


have frozen the image there, in order to just spotlight this. This


is one of two objects that flies down towards this town, it is


actually, in my assessment, a small ballistic missile, a heavy


artillery system, it could possibly be an air-dropped bomb. It is the


type of weaponry that the regime had stockpiled for action against


Israel or other people, it is used now. This is what happens when the


missiles hit the town. With a lot of called collateral damage. Let's


talk about Aleppo in detail in a minute, what about Damascus?


point to make, although there is a lot of attention on Aleppo, because


of the nature of the challenge to the regime. Just collating the


figures today, from the Syrian human rights observatory and


opposition group, based in London, they talk about loss of life almost


as high as in Aleppo in the places I have put here. Several of them


key roads, again, where in order to operate the regime has to try to


clear the roads. In the process they have killed nearly two dozen


people today, according to that observers group. Once again, the


impression is of outposts of authority surrounded by a sea of


insurgency. Aleppo now is the focus for what's going to be, apparently,


a major attack? Absolutely, the Government has been left in a


wretched position there, really. Perhaps they took their eye off the


ball, several days ago. The insurge gents who had been moving into the


north-east of the -- insurgents who had been moving into the north-east


of the city, swept down into the centre into this area there. We


will put a Free Syrian Army symbol will put a Free Syrian Army symbol


on there. That is where they are, and where most of the fighting has


been in the last few days. They are also in the centre of the town and,


of course, in the north, and north- east, where they have extensive


positions. The Government today, air strikes. We have information


about three. All in this area, where they believe, it is a route


down. Meanwhile, their forces, concentrated at a military base to


the south, and building up there. It is a major garrison, and in a


suburb there. And some of them, in the centre of the town, beleaguered,


not knowing what to do. The real question, in Aleppo, is does the


Government have the will to fight its way in, and will the army


crumble in such a major urban centre as it tries to do so? Some


of that would be down to the weaponry that the resistance has?


Absolutely. There has been a lot of discussion recently about are they


getting weapons from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, a lot of journalists saying


they don't see signs of it. Clearly in many places this war is still


about mens with Kalashnikovs and throwing pieces taking on the


Syrian army. There are interesting signs of change, particularly of


greater organisation. We have video what you might call a complex


attack that was mounted, quite cleverly, a couple of weeks near


all leppo. The first tank hits a land mine planted in the soft


ground across the tarmac, the rest of the column are in heavy gunfire,


that is why they are closed down and not above the hatch, their


situation awareness is poor. Having pinned them down, they engage the


second tank with an anti-tank missile. That may have come from


outside, of course. They have hit the second tank, it appears the


crew of that second vehicle survived and reversed out of


trouble. The key point is the complex nature of that attack,


mines, gunfire, anti-tank missiles, superior organisation, that could


make a major difference. What about the response of the international


community now? In the wake of Kofi Annan's resignation as the mediator,


diplomacy really is in trouble. That all helps the hawks on both


sides, who want to feed the escalation. And frankly, the terms


in which the various outside powers have tried to engage with the


country, you don't see hope there either. Having mapped out the


situation on the ground. It is worth considering the degree to


which it is becoming a rojal cockpit for escalation. -- regional


cockpit for escalation. As Syria slides deeper into violence, there


are a host of countries who feel they have a stake. Starting with


allies. Iran, Russia and Lebanon, or its Hezbollah leadership, at


least, you might even add Iraq to the list. The kidnap of dozens of


Iranian religious pilgrims over the weekend by the opposition, shows


how deeply many Syrians resent the role of these outside actors.


Whether Iranian troops are on the ground or not, Iran is backing up


Assad. It sees Assad as an integral part of its power network in the


Middle East. The ability to project power in the region is based on


Assad, on Hezbollah and Hamas. External support for the regime has


been evident for a long time. But the opposition is benefiting from


growing quantities of cash and weaponry given by those who back


the country's Sunni majority. Saud dough Arabia, Qatar, and -- Saudi


Arabia, Qatar and Turkey have formed a loose alliance to support


the groups. It is the sul laughist and Jihadi groups which show


another sign of the fragmentation of the country. British councilist,


John Cantlie and a gellian -- journalist John Cantlie and a


Belgian colleague were kidnapped by fighters. They were not from Syria,


they were from other places, Pakistan, the UK, Chechnya, the


Caucasus, a real mix. international community should


worry not only about Assad, but the after Assad falling, what happens


to these groups, are they likely to organise an attack on the west.


Will they challenge pro-American Governments elsewhere.


If the regional picture isn't already complicated enough, what


about western countries? The US, UK and France, have they played a


constructive role diplomatically in slamming the Assad regime, but


putting negligible pressure on the opposition to join a political


process. For now I think the international community has played


a rather negative role in terms of enabling the conflict, supporting


the parties to the conflict in ways that made it possible for them to


continue the fight, and not seek political solutions. The current


situation is one in which there is precious little hope of a


resumption of meaningful diplomacy. Not least because as Kofi Annan


made clear, neither opposition, nor Government really wanted.


With foreign backers fuelling the fires of conflict, the regional


implications of this crisis grow more serious by the week. I think


the real point at the end of this, is with Kofi Annan no longer in


position, there is a talk of a search for successor, but what


could such a person meaningfully do Thank you very much, that is one of


the questions I will be putting to our guest. A senior spokesman for


the senior National Council, an opposition group with a base in


Turkey. The most high-level defection has been Riad Hijab. Tell


me how that evolved, what happened? Since he was asked to form a


Government, Bashar Al-Assad, he knew that, I mean, he has to find


an escape or way out. The plan for his defection started since then.


So more than two months ago? It is about two months ago. Through the


co-ordination with some of the battalions of the Free Syrian Army,


his family and sisters and brothers and their families have been


escorted to the border area, all in one night, and they spent the night


close to the Jordanian boarder, then he fled to Jordan, and a--


Jordanian border and he fled to Jordan and announced his defection.


Where is he now? Jordan. Will he go on from Jordan or what will happen?


That is yet to be seen. Discussion is to take place and see the best


role he can play. He was no saint, he was a brutal member of the Assad


regime, so what part can he play with the Syrian National Council?


He was from the Ba'ath Party, I'm not sure we can use the word


"brutal" or not, not all people from that party are part of the


regime, they number two million. He was part of the regime, and


governor, and Secretary of State for Agriculture and then praem. We


-- Prime Minister. We encourage the defection of everyone in this


regime to jump this sinking ship. He is the highest-ranking position


of authority, after the President himself in the country, this is a


huge blow to the Assad regime F it shows anything, it shows the -- if


it shows anything, it shows the regime is decaying and crumbling.


Now we have Kofi Annan's resignation, part of the problem


was, under the Kofi Annan plan, not only had Assad to talk, the


opposition had to talk and find some kind of diplomatic solution.


But you wouldn't talk to the Assad regime? Point one in the Annan Plan


was to stop the shelling of cities, towns and villages, point two is


release political prisoner and allow Syrians to demonstrate


politically freely. None of that happened. There will have to be a


diplomatic solution? Assad is taking the conflict into an area


where there is no other solution. He's taking himself to the same


destiny as Gadaffi. The same, killed in Syria? Perhaps or left or


fled the last minute. There has been so many opportunities to solve


this conflict in a different way, it has been wasted by this regime.


They have been determined to treat the Syrians as subjects, the whole


country as their asset, that is why we haven't any movement forward.


Part of the way the international community will respond and look at


Syria is in terms of the behaviour of the resistance groups. Being


held now are more than 20 Iranian pilgrims. Yes. I think there is a


dispute, obviously with the resistance as to whether or not


they are pilgrims, will they receive a fair trial? Number one,


they are being treated fairly and respectfully, and no harassment or


torture or ill treatment has taken torture or ill treatment has taken


place. Number two we are not yet sure if they were really pilgrims,


making this kind of religious trip into a very flaming situation or


warzone, basically, or they are Iranian agents that have been


captured in the past, snipers and troops and advisers. So, that's


been said, these are being treated fairly. Finally, we know, we think


there will be a big push on Aleppo, that might be decisive for the


future of Assad himself. Do you think he's making plans to leave?


think he is considering leaving, but not at this stage. He would


maybe leave, I would say, as a last resort, really, when he thinks


there is no way for him to maintain grip on Damascus itself. Aleppo is


so significant because they cannot really send a lot of troops there,


weakening the rest of the presence in their country. And if they let


it be, it will be another Benghazi situation in Syria.


Thank you very much. It's hard to believe that a year


ago today, on August 6th, 2011, five days of riots in cities and


towns in England kicked off, causing millions of pounds of


damage, weeks of soul searching. Fast forward 12 months and the


Olympics seems to have had an halo effect. The UK struck by the


success of GB, and more triumph today. Are the riots a distant


memory, or are the Olympics a mere distraction from the true state of


our inner cities. Before we discuss that, here is Paul Mason.


Mo Farah for Great Britain, it's gold.


This is what it looks like when a Briton wins.


And the weekend was a medal fest for British athletes.


This was, in your face, multiethnic Britain, comprehensive school


Britain, and even when somebody else's runner won, parts of Britain


claimed him as their own. In Brixton, London, they are


celebrating Jamaican independence, on top of everything else, all too


aware of the contrast to events a year ago. With some cultural events,


it is complex, it is hard to work out what the zeitgeist is trying to


tell you. But with the Olympics, ever since the Opening Ceremony,


it's been about class, race, and who we are as a people, this


weekend, maybe something big changed. As the Sun Newspaper puts


it, the far right, are wasting their time. We're a multiethnic


country, and they have lost. But can two weeks of Olympic mania


offset a year of angst about what happened in England's poor


communities. Can streets like these really start to believe in a


different story. At the public tennis courts in Clapham, sport


doesn't get more grass roots. This is a youth scheme, paid for by the


council, run by volunteers, they are not short of tennis balls, they


are short of tennis coaches. Is this the first time most of you


have actually had a got at coached tennis? Yeah. What do you think of


it? When I was younger I used to think, I never want to do tennis,


now I have seen Andy Murray play, I want to try to learn tennis now and


get better at it. It doesn't matter where you come from, as long as you


are good at what you are doing, and try lots of stuff to see what you


are good at, and to be able to show people, even if you are in a


backstreet with a basketball court, if you can do it good then you


should do it. For these young people, memories of the riots are


vivid. It was just chaos. All crowds fighting, burntdown


buildings, that is me and my Primary School. It is not over Mark


Duggan, and the cuts and all that, it was just something that you


really wanted, I think it was temptation. Do you think something


like the Olympics will help avoid repeating it? Well, I really think


it would. It should. Some people who are from rundown areas, yeah,


they can have a chance as well. Because it shows that the Olympics


is like and as a variety of people that come, that come together and


do sports, and no chaos. Nice shot, back you go. The fact is,


aspirations like these cost money. It would normally cost �8 to be


taught tennis in a group of six, �40 an hour for one-on-one, �600 a


month at a private tennis academy. For all these children, these are


unattainable sums. Last week British Olympic chief, Lord


Moynihan complained that half our medal winners last time went to


private schools. The past 72 hours have done a lot to redress the


balance. We have seen comprehensive gold for


Andy Murray, Bradley Wiggins, Helen Glover, Victoria Pendleton, Jessica


Ennis, long jumper Greg Rutherford and Mo Farah. But, says this


academic, the social divisions that caused cities to erupt last summer


are still there. We haven't dealt with any of the root causes of the


riots, and actually, young people are still going to have problems


finding work. Mark Duggan's family is still waiting for justice. And


we still have this massive difference between the rich and


poor in this city. Until we can actually tackle those, the Olympics


can't really have this long-lasting halo effect. Tonight, as every


night, London's Hyde Park attracted a crowd mess merised by the sudden


success of people they have never heard of. Before the Olympic,


politicians were worried they might be seen too close to the at lots,


trying to own the games. -- athletes, trying to own the games.


What nobody realised was British people would shamelessly own the


games themselves. Night after night they will sing The National Anthem,


they will eat the national dish, if this is some kind of political


movement, it is very eared -- political moment, it is very weird


and very British. # God save our Queen


Joining us to discuss the issue are my guests. A young Mayor of


Lewisham, and a commentator on the Times. You are charged with


inclusiveity and making sure that the halo-effect got to the


advantaged and disadvantaged alike. But will what you are doing have


any lasting difference to the country, do you think? Well, it is


a big question, isn't it. Of course we hope that many, many young


people, who have already taken part, and learned creative skills, will


take that creativity further, and that everyone who has already had


the chance to see world class artists has had a great time. I


think that we have got here a vision of, a country that welcomes


artists and athletes from around the world, and celebrates and


embraces them. We cheer all the athletes in the stadium, not just


the British athletes. That is a really important thing about us.


welcome and reveer them, and think they are doing a wonderful job,


does it make our lives different? One year ago, I walked down


Tottenham High Road with my daughter from the Tottenham


Tottenham Hotspur friendly we saw the people gathering outside


Tottenham Police Station, and how ominous it felt under those


circumstances. We had the eruption, and a year later we have something


like the Olympics. What we are seeing is two very different types


of people. There are several countries contained within our


nation. It overlaps at certain times. What do you mean different


kinds of people? By and large, I think the we estimated about 20,000


people were involved in rioting. That's fewer people than you would


have had for one of the women's football matches in Cardiff.


Nevertheless, because of what it represented, what we understood


about underprivileged, disadvantaged, lawlessness in


certain parts of our cities, we could see it was a very big problem,


even if it didn't have that many people involved in it. The Olympic


Games is much, much bigger in terms of the number of people actively


involved in doing something or thinking something about it.


example, for those 20,000 that were involved, will the Olympics


actually make any lasting difference? I think the Olympics is


a great opportunity for the UK to host the Olympics in the first


place, but I do think that it shouldn't overlap the idea of the


reason why the riots happened. And those people are still being


affected by it. I think being a young person myself, I'm still on a


day-to-day basis dealing with those struggles itself. How many people


can say if they let their child out in the morning time, that they can


guarantee their child will come home safe at night. How many people


can guarantee they can feed their children for the rest of the week


or take care of their family. Those are the things we should look at in


terms of deprivation. Fundamentally we can celebrate the Olympics, but


underneath, has changed? It is �2,000 for an Opening Ceremony


ticket. What was that about? think we should say, children could


go for tickets that cost the same as their age. We in our London 2012


festival, we have 12 million free tickets that we have been offering.


I think we should say an important thing. Let's talk about sport for a


minute. What was the cheapest ticket �30? Children can go for


their able. You can see a lot of the sport in the Olympics for free.


You could see the marathon free, some of the cycling free. But I


think a really good point in your film is aspiration costs money. And


that is true. What every young person needs is the chance to dream,


and the chance to develop their dreams. And both arts and sport,


and of course you would expect me to be pushing the art, alongside


the sport, are the stuff of dreams. We have got to make sure that what


we have built on during these games in this summer is something we


carry on with. You have been involved in the Cultural Olympiad


for some time, after the riots did you have a re-think about the


direction in which you wanted to take things? The Cultural Olympiad


have put young people and developing their skills at the


start. As you remember we opened the London 2012 festival with young


people in sterling, and with young people in Hackney, for the radio --


Stirling, and with young people in Hackney for the concert, free


ticket to see Jay-Z and Rihanna and learn skills. We have always had


skills learning there and free tickets, that is really important.


I might be misquoting Mark Hunter, saying there is enough money in the


pot -- Jeremy Hunt, saying there is enough money in the pot for sport.


A lot of people will be inspired and they will go out and there


won't be the gym, sport facilities? That will always be a problem.


There is a significant amount of money going into kids school sports


activities than 40 years ago. We have done an incredible job through


the lottery, in some of these very schools, in Lewisham, in Tottenham,


the fact it hasn't solved our underlying social problems, I don't


think it should be an immense surprise. It isn't because people


haven't been trying to do it. It is because it doesn't actually tackle


some of the very specific problems these communities have. Then there


are other problems about division in society which we know about,


which have something to do about the fact that the very wealthiest


people are incredibly wealthy compared with everybody else, it is


like talking to people who live on another planet. That is an issue we


have to deal with. The idea of the Olympic is something that no-one


wants to be cynical about, it is a great chance to see what athletes


can do and inspire a generation. People like Andy Murray and Jessica


Ennis, Mo Farah, when I was watching the Olympics I felt


inspired. But at the same time, how do we get to a point where we can


have people in deprived areas aspiring to be those successful


people. It starts in the community. The Government needs to come down


to a lower level and speak to people. The idea of Boris Johnson


going to Clapham, talking about cleaning up the area. Let's be real


about it, forget the PR stunts, Britain has to wake up and hold


politicians to account, that doesn't mean voting, it is active


throughout the year and years to come. Boris Johnson has said many


things, one thing he did say, is what he felt in a society of


instant gratification, seeing the endeavour, the long, long years


that you put in, Beth Tweddle, gives the idea that something takes


a long time to come back for you? think that actually everyone with


talent knows that. They know that it's about determination and hard


work. But it is also about support, it is about coaching, it is about


facilities and it is about a long- term policy. It is not an accident


that we are winning so many medals now it is not an accident we are so


brilliant at music around the world and creative industry. It is about


long-term policy and support. there something about raising the


national spirit? I think this has come at a really important moment.


I think there was a real danger, before the Olympics and the Jubilee,


that the country was beginning to turn in on itself, very negative


about things like immigration, very negative about other people in the


society. One of the things I think the Olympics may have done, and it


is too early to tell, judging by the mood, is it has turned us back


outwards, we are not looking inwards or beating ourselves up, we


are looking outwards to the rest of the world. That is where we have to


be. The future of the kids in Lewisham is about taking on the


rest of the world, it is not smacking ourselves down. Do you


think that, or is it a more middle- class idea, do you think that is


actual low true? I believe in a lot of things. Last week my brother's


best friend was murdered, now that's something that's really


personal towards me, my family, it affected a lot of people in my area.


It is a ricochet effect, if we are talking about the Olympics at a


national level, it is great talking about the Olympics, but when we


have issues like that happening to normal families, people trying to


live their lives day-to-day, people are going through a lot, people


don't have the time to sit in front of the television and enjoy the


Olympics. People don't have the money. Although it is �30, some


people have to use that money to feed their family, those are the


people we need to sort out to get everyone to the point where we will


see we will get those young people to play sports. There is no point


inspiring young people if you are not going to give them the right


facilities to nurture their talent long-term. Well, of course I


couldn't disagree with a word of that. But I would say that


inspiration is something to seize, we can seize the moment, and


actually this is a great moment for us, there is an opportunity for us


to build on this. We should do so, we really should. I think


personally, someone like Ruth is inspiring, definitely, I incourage


everything you are doing. But I think in terms of Government and


people we see in the media all the time. We need to hear those same


things, we need to hear them say it and say we are going to do this


together, forget politic, let's talk about the real thing, people


need to hear more about it. Thank you very much.


A quick run around tomorrow's front pages. There is the equestrian team


That's just about all from Newsnight. I'm here tomorrow with


more. Team GB won the first show jumping medal for 28 years today,


and yes, it was a gold. From of us Good evening. We have more


unsettled weather to come for a couple of days. Things will turn


dryer, warmer and sunnier for the end of the week. A fairly cloudy


start to things on Tuesday morning. We have some rain moving towards


south-west England and parts of South Wales. To the north of that a


mixture of sunshine and showers. Not too many showers across parts


of the Midlands, here it will be mainly dry and bright. We have a


lot of cloud through Sussex and along the south coast. The rain is


with us through the afternoon, stretching into the Isle of Wight


and down towards parts of Devon. Cornwall beginning to dry out. The


rain clearing away as it moves into South Wales. For North Wales


through the afternoon it should be dry and fine with sunny spells. We


have some sunshine for Northern Ireland. I can't rule out the odd


shower, but for the most part it should be dry. The showers isolated


across parts of Northern Ireland, much more scattered across parts of


Scotland, a few heavy ones through central Scotland. You can see


plenty of wet weather to come on Tuesday, temperatures in Edinburgh,


19. The showers start to clear through Wednesday, as pressure


begins to climb across the country t does become dryer. A little bit


of brightness, lifting temperatures into the low 20s. We have a very


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