Browse content similar to 08/08/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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When will the British economy start growing again? Don't ask me and | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
don't ask the Governor of the Bank of England either. I don't think | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
we're in any position to forecast what will happen in the euro area, | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
and therefore, we're in no position of what will happen in the UK we | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
have no forecasts. Could the economy get a lift from all that | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
Olympic goodwill. We will ask four people at the sharp end, whether | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
there will be long-term dividend from the games. Also tonight, the | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
consensual sexual acts that landed a barrister in court. We will hear | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
from prosecutors, and ask the prosecuted, whether he feels | :00:45. | :00:53. | |
persecuted. At a special report from a city where heroin is cheaper | :00:53. | :01:03. | |
:01:03. | :01:05. | ||
than chood. -- food. The Governor of the Bank of England, | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
Sir David King, mindful not everyone will wade through every | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
painch of the bank's quarterly report, is focusing on something we | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
all understand, the weather.' year ago he said the economy was | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
navigating rough waters, and storm clouds continued to roll role in | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
from the euro area, then it was had he winds, and choppy water, in May | :01:30. | :01:40. | |
:01:40. | :01:40. | ||
it was strong head winds, and then it was choppy waters continuing to | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
roll in. A woman ran the bank earlier, and said there was a | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
Hurricane on the way, apparently. Don't worry, there isn't. Weren't | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
the Olympics supposed to make the economy stronger, if not faster and | :01:53. | :02:02. | |
higher. Zero growth, why? That zero growth is the bleakest of all | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
projections from anyone, zero is as bad as anyone thought it would be | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
in 2012, it is for the whole year. A year ago we thought it would be | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
2%, that is where all that head wind stuff came from Mervyn King. | :02:14. | :02:20. | |
One odd quarter down or up, it doesn't matter to macro-economics, | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
what matters is the size of the economy. This is the graph Mervyn | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
King obsesses about. This red line shows you the UK economy, since | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
2008 it has been smaller, it hasn't managed to struggle back, even on | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
the day Lehmans went bust, and in the yellow zone, the projection, we | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
find under new zero growth this year, that the British economy | :02:42. | :02:52. | |
doesn't come back to its old size until mid-20 20 20, that is eight | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
years. This is the central prodetection, Mervyn King, because | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
of Europe, doesn't think you can put an accurate figure on that red | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
line at all. I don't think we are in any | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
position to forecast what will happen in the euro area, therefore, | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
we are in no position to make any accurate forecast of what will | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
happen in the UK. I don't think anyone else is either, to be honest. | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
That is immensely reassuring to us all, what can he do about this? | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
is very clear, He made a big signal today, that there is more quanative | :03:24. | :03:31. | |
easing to come, we have had �357 billion already, and there is | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
funding for lending �80 billion for the banks. The Government talked | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
about this today, in the space of a year they pumped �125 billion into | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
the economy, only �35 billion became money in people's pockets, | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
why not? Because the banks are standing in the way. The �80 | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
billion, it is clear will become bank profit. Because of this, the | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
governor was pressed by journalists if there were more radical things | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
to do, one journalist sad why not buy the debt from the British | :04:02. | :04:09. | |
economy and write it off? Could they do that? They could do that. | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
Instead of saying over my dead body, he didn't say. That I was intrigued | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
by that, I'm not the only one sitting in the press conference who | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
was intrigue bid it. There may be more radical action. The earliest | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
thing is another interest rate cut, probably to actual zero. Before | :04:26. | :04:33. | |
that, can we count on the Olympics to boost the economy? If you ask | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
that from any retailer in London, you will get a punch in the face, | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
to be honest. Most are so annoyed about what the effect has been. | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
Even those not sunk by it are feeling the binch. It does turn out, | :04:45. | :04:52. | |
-- the pinch. It does turn out there is an upside, it is, the | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
ticket sales. While we are all trying to get the tickets, we are | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
contributing to the economic growth. Those of us on the edge of the | :05:00. | :05:10. | |
:05:10. | :05:37. | ||
Olympic Park, it has been swings Never mind the dressage, Britain | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
today was going for medals in the ultimate street sport, BMX. The | :05:40. | :05:49. | |
sport that makes you glad they invented shock absorbers. And with | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
the whole country now getting the cans in for the closing ceremony, | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
it is time to start thinking about the economic impact of the games. | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
Just a month ago, this was the promise. I'm confident we can | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
derive over �13 billion of benefit to the UK economy, over the next | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
four years, as a result of hosting these games. But with economics, as | :06:12. | :06:19. | |
with BMX, it doesn't pay to be confident. The Bank of England's | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
zero growth prediction burst the Olympic euphoria today. As for the | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
2012-effect, turns out it is minor. There may well be some extra | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
spending from tourism, but as many of us know, there is there has also | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
been travel disruptions, more people are going on holiday those | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
effects are small. The contributions from both ticket | :06:37. | :06:44. | |
sales and TV rights, may bring a small boost to GDP in Q3. That is | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
from the Bank of England is not exactly an enforcement of an | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
economic Phoenix rising from the Olympic Flame. It does, at least, | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
allay fears, that the overall impact of the games could be | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
negative. At this floating market, a mile away from the Olympic Park, | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
they are a little bit less ewe effusive about the impact of the | :07:06. | :07:12. | |
games. This is an Olympic venture, but has it been attracting Olympic | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
people? Swings and roundabouts, the fact we have come together has | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
served us well, but the trade is exclusively local people. We have | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
had a normal summer, if we have had a boost, it is because we are a | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
floating market and come together. We have been shocked that there is | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
less traditional foot fall than if we hadn't been together and a bit | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
of a pull to people. No, there is not massive Olympic bump up, we | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
haven't found that. The Olympic audiences, even though the site is | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
just up behind us? Don't come here. The overall figures are patchy. | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
This is what we know, hotel occupancy in London at the start of | :07:50. | :07:57. | |
the games was 84%, a little up on the norm, of 82% a year ago. A | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
post-games dip is expected, starting this Sunday. With | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
restaurants takings in central London were down about 40% at the | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
start of the games and Des spite an improvement, they are still down. | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
The two -- and despite an improvement, they are still down. | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
The two negatives, the costs, to pay for t we have had a lot of tax | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
rises in the last couple of years, and one of the reasons is to pay | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
for the public spending, one element of which is the Olympics. | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
The second is the Olympics seems to have scared off economic activity. | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
People were afraid that they wouldn't be able to travel to work, | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
I run a London business, I was told to try and ask my staff to work at | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
home. And tourism has been diverted from London, London has fewer | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
tourists than usual, which is a bit odd, given the Olympics are going | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
on. But other tourists who normally come to London have been diverted, | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
they were afraid it would be too expensive. The Government spent �9 | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
billion on the games, the lottery another �2 billion, and the tax- | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
payers in London �1 billion. A lot of that has gone on infrastructure, | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
in private sector investment the massive shopping centre in | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
Stratford is swings and roundabouts, it is a huge success, but retailers | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
everywhere else in London say they are feel feeling the pinch. Those | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
involved say the real pay-off is yet to come. Even down to the | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
spectators who go, we are wowed. How do we turn the wow into | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
economic percentage points? We have to follow through and make sure we | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
deliver what we said we would from a legacy perspective. We want | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
vibrant, occupied, well-used venues, capable of being used by not just | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
elite, but everybody else. We want to create a place where people want | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
to live, work and play. If we let the developments play out. That in | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
theself will be a huge legacy. is a world away from the big | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
planning project, or the credit card and burger and fizzy drinks | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
companies that actually sponsored the Olympics, but it is stuff like | :09:59. | :10:06. | |
this -- if stuff like this is the lasting legacy of the games, | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
economic specialists will be very pleased, this is what they planned | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
and worked for, real, chaotic, small businesses, and people and | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
families, colonising the space in unpredictable and innovative ways. | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
With all major state-run projects, there is an element of build it and | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
they will come, and on this evidence they have. Not necessarily | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
the people we expected. We will only know if the games generated | :10:30. | :10:37. | |
more wealth than they consumed later. | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
Four people with their fingers on the economic pulse are here. The | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
co-founder of the Lyon restaurant chain, the man behind the Moshi | :10:47. | :10:55. | |
Monster. The chair of Venture Capital, and Nicola Smith. Are we | :10:55. | :11:02. | |
all agreed that you are all excited about the games, none of you saying | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
bah-humbug. How do we translate that into something that has some | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
kind of lasting economic legacy, Michael? I think everyone has been | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
taken by surprise at how quiet things have been in central London. | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
You mentioned taxi drivers are saying takings are down 20%, | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
restaurants and bars are quiet. Going forward, what an amazing | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
advert this has been for brand Britain, billions around the world | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
are watching, hopefully it will increase tourist numbers in the | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
future. Big business may come and settle here, we want to hire lots | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
of people in silicone valley. And the other thing, the fact the games | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
are inspiring a generation of kids. Olympians make amazing role models, | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
better than reality TV stars, and the hard work and dedication they | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
put in will develop the next wave of sportsmen and women to make | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
Britain even greater. How do we translate this goodwill into | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
tangible? We will get some benefits out of it, I'm slightly less | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
optimistic than Michael. Why is that? The history of other games is | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
there hasn't been a lasting legacy of significance. There will be some | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
benefits for the country. It has been a success in terms of the | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
number of medal we have won. The organisation has gone well, the | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
site is good. But we have chucked an awful lot of money at it. A lot | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
of lottery money at gone at it, that could have gone somewhere else, | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
and done some other good. Has it done some good, yes. To justify the | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
expenditure? We will find out in a few years. I expect it will be near | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
neutrality, not anything particularly good, that is not to | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
knock t it is a great experience. What about the tourists who have | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
seen how great it is here and flock in greater numbers? They have to, | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
they haven't been here the last week or two. There has been rather | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
a shortage of people buying things in the stores in the city, I got | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
the figures today for one of the large luxury department stores, | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
some of their departments were down 50% this week. That is a huge | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
economic blow. There are plenty of people not winning, over time, yes | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
it will be good for the country's image, but most people did know | :13:11. | :13:18. | |
where London was. Have your ress been empty, John vein ent -- | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
restaurants been empty? If you come to us you will find us filled with | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
people, before the Olympics we were up 5%, there has been a decrease, I | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
have a business partner who is shrewd, he spoke to people in | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
Sydney, who said they didn't get the bounce expected, we learned | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
from that. Two points to learn, number one, let's forgive the | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
Olympics for not necessarily creating economic benefit, if I | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
have a party, or I have a piece of cake, I don't try to ask that piece | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
of cake or party to achieve an economic benefit to me. We have had | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
a party, and there are huge benefits, non-financial, and non- | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
economic, and intangible benefit that is come to us as human beings. | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
We should celebrate that. The second thing is, we are half way | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
through the race. This is like asking Ben Ainslie half way through | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
the race, stop, and tell us why you might not win the race. We will | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
until Sunday, London is amazing, things are going on, this goes all | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
the way up to Glasgow. Let's come to London, there is lots going on. | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
We are half way through the race. There is the Paralympics, let's get | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
going, there is lots to do. Weren't you, as a businessman, | :14:26. | :14:32. | |
understanding, as many of us did, that the Olympic Games would have | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
an economic benefit to the United Kingdom. Didn't you expect to be | :14:35. | :14:41. | |
feeling that now. Why phone a friend in Sydney? 18 months ago the | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
general feeling was we are going to be so busy during the Olympics, it | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
will be out of control, you won't be able to get deliveries in, it | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
will be pandemonium, we will cope. Did you take on extra staff? We did, | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
but fortunately, based on what happened in Athens and Sydney, we | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
actually had some useful restaurant relationships, which told us that | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
things weren't quite as the myths were suggesting, we were fortunate | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
we were able to plan on that basis. I'm interested, surely the airlines | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
knew people weren't coming, and someone knew they weren't coming. I | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
wonder whether that message could have got out there earlier. Can we | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
blame British Airways? No, enjoy the Olympic and invite people to | :15:23. | :15:29. | |
come tomorrow. If you come to Lyon and say you like the rings -- Leon | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
and say you like the rings, you will get a free side. Just now or | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
because we are watching? I would like to sponsor the Olympics next | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
time. You are doing a good job of publicity now! What is the way to | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
screw some money, long-term, from the games? Two things to think | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
about, first of all what have we already benefited from, from the | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
games, this is a long-term construction project. It has | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
created thousands of jobs, there is a great agreement between unions | :15:57. | :16:04. | |
and employers on sielt, which means it is the great -- site, which | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
means it has one of the best health and safety records and no problems | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
with injuries, it is great to see how that benefited both workers and | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
the whole of us now as we are benefiting from an Olympic Park | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
that is being delivered to budget, to time, and has been a real | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
example of how public sector investment can kick start the | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
private sector investment we need to get the economy going on. We | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
have a big area of reclaimed land, we have massive transport | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
infrastructure and property infrastructure, and workers on the | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
park, being paid at London living wage rates over the past four years. | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
That will all help build productivity in the years ahead, | :16:45. | :16:47. | |
and could bring significant long- term benefits. In the short-term we | :16:48. | :16:50. | |
have to look beyond the Olympics at what is going wrong with the | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
economy. The problem is a Government economic strategy set on | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
choking off the recovery rather than getting us back to growth. | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
are calling for massive public spending on huge products? At a | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
time when the Government can borrow more cheaply than it has for two | :17:06. | :17:12. | |
centuries, and people and various economists across the world calling | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
for an immediate stimulus to get the economy going. Particularly | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
when we have all the benefits and jobs the infrastructure investment | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
can bring ts good for the Government to be considering that | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
sort of strategy now. What about the point earlier, perhaps if this | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
money was spent in another way, it would have had just as much benefit. | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
New roads, new railways? We have done, that we reclaimed a land that | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
was previously desolate, we have trained up apprentices. Everyone | :17:43. | :17:49. | |
not watching in London might have had the more benefit. You said it | :17:49. | :17:56. | |
was on budget, it wasn't. We pitched for �6 billion, it was �12, | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
that is not on budget. One of the reason things have gone well, a lot | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
of money has been spent, things have been done first-class, Rolls- | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
Royce throughout, that's good in many ways, but a lot of money was | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
spent. We did the same with the athletes, we spent �300 million, we | :18:16. | :18:22. | |
got medals, but �60 million ten years ago, we had none. What about | :18:22. | :18:29. | |
getting a man on the moon, did it inspire kids, definitely, but did | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
it doing anything? No I'm a boring old accountant, on budget to me | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
means on budget. It was a wonderful party, there is nothing wrong to | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
throw a party that lifts the national spirit, increases | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
confidence and makes people happy. It is hard to measure through GDP, | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
part of life's rich tapestry. can argue, all the construction | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
contracts were delivered through budget. This about the Olympics | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
lifting the national mood, I think it is fabulous, I'm worried about | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
all the these very minor economic factors n a normal period of | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
economic growth, would really not be having that much impact on our | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
GDP and suddenly being seen as enormously significant. The reason | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
the Government keep telling us about the snow and the rain and the | :19:14. | :19:21. | |
snow, and why it is all undermining our economy, is because underneath | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
it is stagnant, and growing less quickly than when the Government | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
came into power. Just thinking about the economic benefits, | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
certainly the legacy of these games, how are we going to measure it? | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
When do we measure it? Isn't it important to quantify it? We will | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
never be able to measure it properly. Everyone is happy. There | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
are some completely intangible things, will it result in more | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
exports and visitors? Yes it will do some of that, nobody will know | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
how much. You can't do it. Your point is an interesting one you are | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
making about infrastructure spend, despite the �12 billion, there is a | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
lot less than the reduction in the infrastructure spend since the | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
coalition came in. We are seeing infrastructure spending cut by | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
close to 50% in this parliament. It is one at the point where | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
consumption is falling, private sec investment is falling, it is one of | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
the way to get the economy growing again. It is a shame. The best | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
thing to do is educate Rio. We, seemingly as a nation didn't | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
completely learn from Sydney and Athens, Rio can learn from us and | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
understand what the pen about fits of a great party, and cost it | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
appropriately. We are in -- benefits of a great party, and cost | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
it appropriately. We have five or six days until the end, let's get | :20:39. | :20:46. | |
people to London, we have people in pink shirts and hilarious | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
entertainers. Thank you for the free meal offer. You're welcome. | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
don't have other entertainment, we have Newsnight. Tomorrow we will be | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
looking at another aspect of the Olympic legacy, we will be looking | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
at what will happen to the Olympic Park itself. | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
It's possible, you are watching this programme in your bedroom. | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
Perhaps alone, perhaps with your significant other, perhaps with | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
someone you have only just met, in which case, why the hell are you | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
watching Newsnight. But, whatever your bedroom circumstances, would | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
you like someone from the Crown Prosecution Service in there with | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
you, just to make sure you are not doing something grossly offensive, | :21:22. | :21:29. | |
disgusting or otherwise obscene, and then taking a photograph of it. | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
In essence, that's what happened to barrister, Sara Walsh. He has been | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
on trial, charged, under the Criminal Justice Act of 2008, which | :21:37. | :21:44. | |
makes it illegal to possess or look on-line at any pornographic image | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
depicting an act that results or is likely to result to a serious | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
industry to a person's breast, an news Oreganals. I don't want to | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
cause any offence, if it is not clear where the item is going, you | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
might want to find the remote. The charges related to photographs Sara | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
Walsh's computer, including images of anal fisting, and an object | :22:05. | :22:11. | |
being inserted into the tip of a penis. Another image found on Mr | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
Walsh's e-mail account was said to be an indecent image of a teenage | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
boy. The prosecution suggested to wans that people who attended | :22:21. | :22:28. | |
sexual health clinics engaged in more risky practices. She replied | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
people who attended took their sexual health seriously. Tonight | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
the Crown Court found him not guilty in the six charges against | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
him. Although he has kept his freedom, he last lost his job, | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
working as an aide to the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson. First the | :22:46. | :22:52. | |
woman who decided to bring the case, the chief crown prosecutor for | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
London. Why did the CPS bring the case? We brought the case because | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
there was sufficient evidence, when we looked at the case, we found | :23:00. | :23:06. | |
that there was evidence to prosecute the offence of possessing | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
extreme pornography. What we looked at there was whether or not there | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
was an pornographic image. And the element of the act that we | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
prosecuted under was whether or not the image showed there was likely | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
to be serious harm and injury caused. But to be clear, if these | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
acts had taken place and nobody had taken a photograph, the law | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
wouldn't be interested? No, it is around the image and the law which | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
we prosecuted under, it is about possessing a pornographic image. | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
But your concern was whether people would come to serious physical | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
damage? Yes, the law is about, does the image show an act that is | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
likely to cause serious harm or injury. So it is not about | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
particular acts being made unlawful, it is about, does the image show | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
that there is likely to be serious harm or injury. What the law is | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
obsessed about here, is, "sex"? is about pornographic images, it is | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
about are these extreme images, in that does it show serious harm or | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
injury. If I was to take a photograph of someone marathon | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
running, or skydiving, or smoke ago cigarette, the law is not | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
interested there? That is not pornographic. You have to make sure | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
there is a pornographic image, which, dedefinition, is sex. Is any | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
part of it, when you are prosecuting a case like this, do | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
you hope that people will be embarrassed into pleading guilty? | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
That is not why we prosecute cases, we prosecute cases because we have | :24:37. | :24:43. | |
the evidence there, and we put them before a jury. It is for a jury to | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
decide. This particular case went all the way through to a jury, it | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
wasn't stopped by the judge, it was put before the jury, the judge | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
decided there was a case to answer. It is a matter for the jury then to | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
decide whether there was any reasonable doubt, which is | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
different from our test which, is whether there is realistic prospect | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
of conviction. Are you still happy to have brought the case? Having | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
looked at the images and the case we were right to bring it. The | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
evidence was there. The fact that a jury decides differently, is | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
perfectly proper, but it doesn't mean our original decision was | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
wrong. Are you going to review your procedures as a result of this | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
case? We look at each case individually, and we look at | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
whether the evidence is there, and whether it is right to prosecute or | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
not, and whether it is in the public interest. We will certainly | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
do that, in the same way we always do. Our procedures are there to | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
make sure that those tests are carried through. This was case that | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
took place, in part, on Twitter, as you know, and something people are | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
saying on Twitter, they are wondwhrerg this prosecution had had | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
anything to do -- wondering whether this prosecution had anything to do | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
with Sara Walsh's work as a barrister of prosecuting police | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
officers for corruption? Absolutely not, I didn't know that was part of | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
his work. It doesn't matter who the individual is, we look at the | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
evidence and whether an offence has been committed. Isn't the | :26:01. | :26:08. | |
embarrassing thing about this case, not these images, but the fact it | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
was brought, what is the law doing in people's bedrooms? This is the | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
law as it stand, the act was passed in 2008, it is not for us to | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
comment on legislation. It is for us to apply the law as parliament | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
sees fit. Thank you very much. Thank you. | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
Sara Walsh, what is it like having your sex life discussed in great | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
detail in open court? Extraordinarily embarrassing. To | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
speak to a jury, across a courtroom, over seven days, explaining what I | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
do in private is not something I would wish on anybody. Did you | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
consider, knowing that was coming, did you consider simply pleading | :26:44. | :26:50. | |
guilty and not going through that? Nothing that I did was ill legal, | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
and there was no way I would plead guilty, no. You are a QC, what did | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
you think of the legal arguments that were arraigned against you? | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
They were poor. The act has a purpose, that is to enable | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
prosecutions to take place for pornography that would be caught by | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
the Obscene Publications Act, were it published in this country. What | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
this act was actually used against me for were pictures that were | :27:18. | :27:20. | |
taken of consensual activities by people in private. That was not | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
what it was designed for. It is designed for extreme porn nothing | :27:24. | :27:31. | |
me, beastality, and necrophelia, not two or three people enjoying | :27:31. | :27:37. | |
themselves in the bedroom. What about the law's duty to protect | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
people from physical harm, whether or not there is a consenting act | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
going on? That is absolutely right, and were there any harm caused, | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
there wouldn't be a problem. These were consenting adults, I was | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
taking part in some of them, there was no harm at all. You were not a | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
medical expert, that is what the CPS had at their disposal, they | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
thought there was a problem? We had doctors who said there wasn't a | :28:02. | :28:07. | |
problem. It is activity that doesn't cause injury to the vast | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
majority of people who engage it, the test under the act is whether | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
it is likely to cause harm. It is a legislation that is designed to | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
stop extreme activity, the inversion of knives, this is not | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
what this was about. Do you blame the law then or the prosecutors who | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
made the decision to bring you to court? It is the way in which the | :28:25. | :28:31. | |
law is being interpreted. The law is correct, but the way in which it | :28:31. | :28:36. | |
was interpreted in my case was quite wrong. Will you change any | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
part of your behaviour as a result of this case, will you stop being | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
involved in photographing any of these events? No, the jury have | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
decided what I did was legal and proper. | :28:48. | :28:55. | |
This was case, which played out in part on Twitter. Your side were | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
able to tweet from the courtroom? That's right. How important was | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
that to you? It was very important. Because the headline of this case | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
sounds dreadful. If you hear the evidence as it comes out over the | :29:05. | :29:11. | |
course of the trial, and you are able to express that, over Twitter, | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
to people, they can feel as if they are participating, and people | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
understand what is going on. The reaction on Twitter was | :29:20. | :29:22. | |
overwhelmingly positive, they felt they were there and could | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
understand what I was going through. Even there was an allegation of an | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
indecent photograph of an under-age boy, was that a particularly | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
difficult thing to deal with? was, it was one of those | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
allegations that sounds absolutely ghastly. The jury decided that | :29:38. | :29:44. | |
image was an image of an adult. Do you want your old job back, will | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
you get your old job back? That is a matter for other people. Yes, I | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
would like to carry on doing what I did before, certainly. Do you think | :29:51. | :30:00. | |
you were well treated by your employers? As a barrister you are | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
not employed, the only person to mistreat me, would be me. At the | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
moment I'm unable to return to chambers, but I hope to be able to | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
do so. Have you any calls of support from people who used today | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
employ you today? I have had imnumberable calls from people | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
today, not from my chambers. Do you think the law will now be looked at, | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
or do you think at least the CPS will review their procedures? | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
think the CPS ought to lock at their procedures, they are using - | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
look at their procedures, they are using this act to criminalise legal | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
activity. When the act was passed, the Ministry of Justice indicated | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
it would only be used to prosecute pictures that would otherwise be | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
caught under the Obscene Publications Act. There is no way | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
these pictures would have been caught under the Obscene | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
Publications Act. It was used in a way parliament was told it would | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
not be used. What have you learned from this? That's a difficult | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
question. I have learned that the juries in this country return | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
perfectly sound and sensible verdicts. But I have also learned | :31:06. | :31:12. | |
that it takes 15 months of very difficult process to get there. I | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
am very much obliged to the jury for their sensible decision, but it | :31:15. | :31:23. | |
has been a long and hard road. In part of the world, where history | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
hangs heavy, and disputed lasts generations, there is renewed | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
unrest. In recent days the trouble in Sinai, has seen militants | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
killing Egyptian border guards. Now the military has hit back, and | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
Egypt's President has sacked his intelligence chief and the Governor | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
of North Sinai. Tell us more about what's happening? Essentially there | :31:44. | :31:49. | |
is a problem brewing in the Sinai Peninsula for a long time. It has | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
become ungoverned space, particularly since the Egyptian | :31:51. | :31:56. | |
revolution. Things have come to a head in the past few days. The | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
peninsula itself sits between Egypt and Israel. It is a sensitive part | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
of the world. There have been lots of attacks across the Israeli | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
border, if we go in closely, on Sunday, there was a major incident | :32:08. | :32:15. | |
at the Keremshalom crossing point, this is when 16 border guards were | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
killed by militants from the Egyptian side and then tried to get | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
through in armoured vehicles to the Israeli side. Yesterday the | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
Egyptian security forces came under attack in these two places. Their | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
response was to launch a major attack there, including helicopters, | :32:32. | :32:37. | |
firing missiles, some report even of air strikes, as we can see from | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
the video, heavy armoured force mechanised infantry moving in there. | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
The Egyptian military say they killed 20 people in those clash. | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
Some locals have cast doubt on that, and said they don't think many | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
people were killed. The point is this is now turning into a | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
militariseed flash point, with considerable risks for the new | :32:57. | :33:07. | |
:33:07. | :33:07. | ||
President of Egypt and security more generally in the area. What | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
are we learning about the relationship between the President | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
and his generals? We are hearing about the military and the | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
President being locked into conflict. Now they have to deal | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
with the problems together. They have formed a defence council, the | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
President and the Defence Minister, this holdover from the Mubarak era, | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
they are both on this. They took these decisions together, we are | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
told. They sacked the head of the domestic Intelligence Service, | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
because they say he ignored an Israeli warning that this attack | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
was about to come. In some ways you can see a positive value in this | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
new joint approach. Mr Morsi obviously coming from the Islamic | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
side of politics, dealing with an Islamic militant threat in Sinai, | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
he has considerable credibility. The military, I think, regard that | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
as very helpful. But this could escalate seriously, if it becomes | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
more of a feud, if the combat becomes more generalised, it could | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
really test both President and military. | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
Some of the statistics about Karachi in Pakistan are quite | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
something. In one of the world's most populist countries, it is the | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
most populated city. One of the most densely populated areas on the | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
planet. Forecasters struggle to keep up with the explosion in | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
numbers in Karachi. 21 million people, they reckon. A number that | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
makes London, even Olympic London, look like Stackton Tressel. There | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
are more startling facts about Karachi, heroin is cheaper than | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
food. So the city has a vast number of addicts. Those who want to break | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
their habit have to rely on a controversial clinic, run by a | :34:42. | :34:52. | |
:34:52. | :34:57. | ||
charity, using cold turkey methods. In this sprawling port city, there | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
is an estimated half a million chronic heroin add ducts. That is | :35:02. | :35:10. | |
one in every 40 people. Pakistan is seen by many outsiders as a failed | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
state, has little public health profession, it is left to charities | :35:14. | :35:21. | |
to plug the gap. The Edhi Foundation, runs what is thought to | :35:21. | :35:28. | |
be the world's largest drug rehabilitation centre. | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
Without the resources to offer conventional treatment, like | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
methadone, the 4,000 patients are given only paracetamol to help with | :35:37. | :35:47. | |
:35:47. | :35:50. | ||
the pain of cold turkey. Every day the foundation is called by the | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
families of addicts, so desperate for help, that they are willing to | :35:53. | :36:03. | |
:36:03. | :36:03. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 74 seconds | :36:03. | :37:18. | |
Because he was forced into rehabbi his mum, under the centre rules, | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
only -- rehab by his mum, under the centre rules, only she can decide | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
when he can leave. Unlike him, these brothers checked themselves | :37:29. | :37:39. | |
:37:39. | :38:01. | ||
in, and can leave whenever they It's now a week since the brothers | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
checked themselves into rehab. They have decided they are ready to | :38:05. | :38:15. | |
:38:15. | :38:54. | ||
But had you sane's happiness is short lived. -- Hussain's happiness | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
is short lived. His wife doesn't want to see him and his mother-in- | :38:57. | :39:05. | |
law tells him to leave. At just 16, his wife says her life has been | :39:05. | :39:15. | |
:39:15. | :39:54. | ||
The next day we found Hussain and Yusef sleeping rough, a few miles | :39:54. | :40:04. | |
:40:04. | :40:22. | ||
from their home. The war in Afghanistan has led to a surge in | :40:22. | :40:28. | |
opaite exports, as a result, heroin in Karachi is cheaper than food, | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
and can provide escape for those stuck in a cycle of poverty and | :40:32. | :40:42. | |
:40:42. | :40:42. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 74 seconds | :40:42. | :42:41. | |
48 hours after calling for help, Staff at the centre told me they | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
often see patients pleading with family members. To them it is an | :42:44. | :42:54. | |
:42:54. | :42:55. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 74 seconds | :42:55. | :43:47. | |
expected part of the withdrawal A week after leaving rehab, he says | :43:47. | :43:53. | |
he has put his addiction behind him. But his brother is missing. Hussain | :43:53. | :44:03. | |
:44:03. | :44:28. | ||
Treatment doesn't work for everyone. But the Ehdi Centre is a lifeline, | :44:28. | :44:35. | |
in a city that sometimes feels like it is floating on a sea of heroin. | :44:35. | :44:41. | |
There is more on that story tomorrow morning in Crossing | :44:41. | :44:47. | |
Continents at 11.00pm on Radio 4, a terrific network. A quick look at | :44:47. | :44:57. | |
:44:57. | :45:31. | ||
the paper, in the Telegraph a That's all tonight. I will be back | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
with more winning medals tomorrow. From all of us on the programme, | :45:33. | :45:43. | |
:45:43. | :46:06. | ||
From all of us on the programme, good night. Good evening, the | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
weather is set fair the next couple of days. With high pressure to | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
thank for that. It is muggy, starting with mist and fog, not | :46:13. | :46:19. | |
just around the coast but Midlands. It will burn back come the | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
afternoon. In Scotland we will see more sunshine. The north-east will | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
see more sunshine than we have seen. It will be warmer as a result of | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
more strong August sunshine. Always the risk that some southern coastal | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
counties will see sea fog lapping on shore. It is a similar risk | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
around coastlines of south-west England, the Bristol Channel and | :46:37. | :46:42. | |
Wales. On the whole we will see a lot of dry, fine and sunny weather. | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
Warm weather too, with very little wind around. There could be a sea | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
breeze to lap some of the sea fog on to the east coast of Northern | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
Ireland. With the weather front close by, one or two showers around. | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
Brushing close to the Western Isles, for the bulk of Scotland, a lot of | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
dry, and fine weather. Cloud in the north-east, one or two showers, the | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
indication there for Inverness. Otherwise, Thursday and Friday, | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
Manchester, Belfast, Edinburgh and Inverness, set fair. A similar | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
picture further south. The cloud coming and going, more broken in | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
the south than we had during the day today. Warmer that is a | :47:17. | :47:20. |