21/09/2012 Newsnight


21/09/2012

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Tonight: Can a millionaire ex- public school boy stay in the

:00:11.:00:13.

Cabinet, after allegedly swearing at a police officer and calling him

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a pleb? If people swear at the police, then they must expect to be

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arrested. Unless you're in the Cabinet apparently. We'll be asking

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what the political fallout might be for Andrew Mitchell and the

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Government, with a Conservative MP and the chairman of the

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Metropolitan Police Federation. Our political panel are here to examine

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the damage to a Government long criticised for being out of touch

:00:36.:00:41.

with ordinary people. They'll also look ahead to Nick Clegg's big week

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in Brighton. Whether they vote for Obama or Romney - can any president

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really govern America's split nation where political cooperation

:00:50.:00:57.

is often a dirty word? Justin Webb has a special report from Florida.

:00:57.:01:03.

This country has become essentially ungovernable. Its politics are

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poisonous. Good evening. When British people

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are asked who they trust, police officers tend to come near the top

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of the list and politicians near the bottom. So the police

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diplomatic protection officer who claims that the Tory Chief Whip,

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Andrew Mitchell, swore at him and called him a pleb, is likely to be

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believed, despite Mr Mitchell's protestations about the exact words

:01:30.:01:33.

he used. The big question however is whether this is one grumpy

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politician, who had a momentary flash of anger, or something which

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plays into the damaging criticism of the Government - a Cabinet of

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millionaires, arrogant posh boys - as one Tory MP put it - out of

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touch with a country in economic difficulty. Here's Peter Marshall.

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Tourists were flocking to the scene of the offence today, some of them

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still unaware the portals to Downing Street would forever more

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be known as Mitchell gate, this is where the Sun termed the cycling

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Tory's outburst, actually burst out. Foul mouthed Chief Whip Andrew

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Mitchell yelled four-letter abuse at cops because they wouldn't let

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him pedal out of Downing Street. The PC reported to his superiors

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Mitchell told him, "Best you learn your (BLEEP)ing place. Best you

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don't run this (BLEEP)ing Government. I'm the Chief Whip, I'm

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telling you and I'm coming through these gates." This is excruciating

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for the Government, playing on the arrogant, posh boys image they're

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December froit shed. Still worse it happens only the night after two

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policewomen were shot dead in Manchester. The Police Federation

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already at odds with the Government they feel are out to get them, are

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furious. Police officers are angry about what happened particularly

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during this week. It showed a degree of uncertainty. I'm not so

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concerned about the fact that he showed a pit of pique and anger

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towards a colleague, who's clearly upset about what has happened. He's

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in a subordinate position to the Chief Whip. It's the mind set

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that's revealed. The veil is lifted slightly and you get a glimpse of

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perhaps the way some of those in Government are thinking.

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officer Mr Mitchell offended is from the Diplomatic Protection

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Group SO6. Mr Mitchell apologised to him this morning, saying he said

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sorry to his sergeant last night. In a public statement, Mr Mitchell

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explained. "I attempted to leave Downing Street via the main gate,

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something I have been allowed to do many times br. I was told that I

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was not allowed to leave that way. While I do not accept that I used

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the words have been reported I accept I did not treat the police

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with the respect they deserve." In the past when the Sun's quoted

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anonymous policemen they've run into big trouble. But the paper's

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political editor is clear about their position on this. We don't

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know what words were used. All we're reporting is that the

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policeman is in the firm police that those damaging words were used.

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The policeman made a verbatim note at the time. Then he filed the

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report to his superiors that evening. He's written that down?

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He's written those words down. As far as the police are concerned,

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there is no debate. The Police Federation too insist the words

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quoted by the Sun are the words the officer reported. What's curious is

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Andrew Mitchell is a stickler for discipline. Ewas known as thrasher

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at public school and was thrilled by his recent appointment as the

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Government's own discipline Aaron, the Chief Whip. Here he was at

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Mitchell-gate loseing his own cool so badly. He also sets great store

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on decorum. Newsnight understand when's he was appointed development

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secretary, Andrew Mitchell insisted officials always addressed him as

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Secretary of State. He also wanted the men to wear ties at all times.

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When it was pointed out that wouldn't necessarily fly in the

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modern Civil Service, Mr Mitchell compromised. They only had to wear

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tie when's they were in the presence of the Secretary of State.

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That was Andrew Mitchell. Mr Mitchell a former investment banker

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has homes in hills Midlands constituency and a French ski

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resort but he lives in North London. His own MP is Labour. I think it

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shows how completely out of touch this Government is. This is ai

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senior politician who's just been promoted. In the end, deep down,

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this is how he behaves. He's denied saying "pleb". And exactly how does

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the rest of what he's supposed to have said show that he has a

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different attitude than saying they are plebs? You don't talk to

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anybody like. That are you not better than anyone else. You treat

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people with respect. For David Cameron, in Manchester, paying his

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respects to the murdered officers, this has been an uncomfortable day.

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What Andrew Mitchell said and what he did was not appropriate. It was

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wrong. It's right that he's apologised. He's obviously

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apologised to me, but much more importantly, he's apologised to the

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police. That needs to be done. The police do an outstanding job across

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our country. They do a very important job protecting places

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like Number Ten Downing Street. I'm very conscious of the protection

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they give to me and my family and the work that they do for everyone

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in public life. I'm eternally grateful for that. The police

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should always have our respect and our help and support. That's very,

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very important. Thank you. REPORTER: Is it appropriate for him

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to keep his job. No answer on that. What's worse the king over the

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water, Boris, had somehow put his foot in it in advance last year,

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condemning disrespect for officers of the law. Nch I reckon we need to

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get back to where we were before some law of 1988 and make it clear

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that if people square at the police, then they must expect to be

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arrested. Andrew Mitchell won't go to jail,

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but he may not survive as Chief Whip. One Tory back benker, no fan

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and off record, suggested he would be gone by Monday. Either way,

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Andrew Mitchell discipline airian faces a difficult weekend. John

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Tully is chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation and

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Peter Bone is a Conservative MP and colleague of Andrew Mitchell. First,

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the police officer as we said is from the Diplomatic Protection

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Group. Do you and other police officers believe his account?

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Absolutely. I've not spoken to the officer personally. But I have

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spoken to his local federation representative. It's clear from

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your report that the Sun are adamant that what was reported was

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correct. I've got no reason to doubt the veracity of the comments.

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I absolutely confirm the integrity of the officer. Did anybody else

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hear this? My understanding is that there was more than one police

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officer present at the time and that there may have been members of

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the public at the other side of the gate in Whitehall. So this other

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police officer, did he hear the words "pleb" or the swearing?

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understanding is that both police officers have made a snot of the

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incident and have recorded what was -- have made a not of the incident

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and have recorded what was said. two police officers maed a note of

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something which could be considered also to be an offence? Absolutely,

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an offence under section five of the Public Order Act. If Mr

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Mitchell had continued with the behaviour, he was liable to be

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arrested. It's not looking very good for Mr Mitchell. If what

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happened, alleged happened, it's totally unacceptable. Nobody, I

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would never consider swearing at a police officer under any

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circumstances. The guy that's protect us in Downing Street put

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their lives at risk to protect the Prime Minister and Cabinet members

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and members of the public. They've always been very civil and helpful

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to members of Parliament. I think it's, if what is alleged to have

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been said, it is very difficult. Indeed. We have two police officers

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apparently who appear to say broadly the same thing. So, Mr

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Mitchell's position would either be that they're both wrong or that he

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actually is telling a lie. Well, I think the serious questions to be

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answered on that point. I believe there might be CCTV and maybe even

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if there isn't audio, there may be lip-reading that can prove one way

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or the other. I'm not hear to defend the indefensible. But the

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one thing the Chief Whip has been right to do is come out straight

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away and apologise. That's something politicians don't often

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do so that's a big plus. Is this a resignation issue? The resignations

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are for the Prime Minister and the for the minister involved, but

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obviously, if it was proved what the Chief Whip is saying isn't

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what's happened, then that would be very serious. I have to say to you,

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we all say stupid things when we get cross and we get grumpy and use

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language we wouldn't wish to use. Can you not accept the apology and

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move on? Clearly the officer has been spoken to by Mr Mitchell and

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he has accepted the apology. don't. The wider policing community

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is concerned that over time the Government has sustained quite a

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vitriolic attack on police pay and conditions and pensions for

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instance. We've had this tragic event in Manchester with the Prime

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Minister being there today and making some comments, which I have

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to be honest, many of my colleagues feel are hollow words. Your

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colleagues feel that the Prime Minister's words about the

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shootings are hollow? Absolutely. Why are you saying that? That's the

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feed back I'm getting from my membership. He paid a very strong

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tribute to the police who protect him and the rest of society.

:10:58.:11:08.
:11:08.:11:08.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 160 seconds

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The problem is that plays into the political narrative that they are

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political narrative that they are posh Boy is who are out-of-touch.

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Also, actually, most politicians do not want to pick a fight with the

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police on any level. I think that particular word is important,

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actually. You're right, all of us lose our temper, but unfortunately,

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the things that come out when you lose your temper are things you

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would rather conceal. I think there is a problem, if you feel that a

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group of people, in this case, the Conservative ministers,

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occasionally, I think one of the police in your report said, the

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veil has been lifted, it is the idea that the mask slips, who are

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these people, what attitudes do they have? That is a real problem.

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And I think the use of the word pleb is fundamental to that, if

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indeed he did use it. There's two bits to this, what he did or did

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not say, and then there is the bigger picture, which is damaging

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for the party. First of all, there are lots of things in politics

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which fall between, it is not a very good thing to have done and

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resignation, and this is one of them. I think we will have to see

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what he said. Personally, I have known him for quite some time, so I

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find it quite hard to see him saying that. But if there are

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police notes, that might change things. It might, we will have to

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see. But when people get into disputes, they have different

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accounts. So there is that side of it. It is a bad thing, for which he

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was white to apologise. It will not enhance his reputation or that of

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the Conservative Party. But personally I think it falls short,

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my judgment is that it will prove to fall short of resignation. And

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then the big picture, of the Conservative Party, this will add

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to the problems that the party has got, not only on the issue of

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whether or not it is in touch with people, but also specifically with

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the police, which is a very specific problem. This was being

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used by the police to make a broad point. But also the question of

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speaking in good faith. Personally I thought that was a rather odd

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thing to say. We were talking then about pay and conditions, for a for

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goodness sake. So, I think it will be bad, but I also happen to think,

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the idea that it is going to go on for months, I think this will prove

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to be quite a short-lived story. Moving on to Nick Clegg, with his

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apology, is he saying that he is having a new start, before the

:16:26.:16:31.

weekend? It is interesting. I think it will definitely help get through

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this week, because clearly, he has been going around the country meet

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King -- meeting local parties over the summer. I am sure it is true

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that he has had terrible feedback about the level of anger against

:16:46.:16:51.

the Liberal Democrats, and he needed to do something, he felt.

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You either really like this statement, which was bowled, which

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is usually aware of condemning it, but... Either you thought it was

:17:02.:17:07.

refreshing, honest, that any attempt to reconnect with your

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support a base, or, as one person said to me today, it was mawkish,

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self-serving, all the rest of it. thought it was absolutely ghastly.

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I did not mind it. I thought it was ghastly, and I thought it was so

:17:22.:17:28.

crude, to do it now, the week before the conference, and to have

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had a focus group to decide whether or not to go ahead with the apology.

:17:31.:17:37.

Please, for me, that took any sincerity out of it. Is it not

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refreshing to have people apologising? I think we get it

:17:40.:17:46.

quite a lot now. I think Andrew Mitchell is absolutely right to

:17:46.:17:50.

have apologised. Nick Clegg, is he apologising for the fact that it

:17:50.:17:53.

should not have been in the manifesto, is it the fact that they

:17:53.:17:58.

knew they really could not fund it, or is it the fact that they chose

:17:58.:18:05.

to not vote for it? The reason it will not work is that Nick Clegg,

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who I admire a lot, but I think he hopes to regain the innocence of

:18:10.:18:16.

the Liberal Democrats, and that is not possible. A big party strategy

:18:16.:18:22.

has to move on, from accepting that they made a very big decision,

:18:22.:18:29.

which at the time I thought was brave and right, the decision to

:18:30.:18:34.

join the coalition, but it is also irreversible. You cannot pretend

:18:34.:18:38.

you did not do it, and they cannot pretend they did not introduce

:18:38.:18:43.

tuition fees. He is right to say you cannot have some kind of

:18:43.:18:49.

humiliation which leads to redemption. You cannot go back to

:18:49.:18:52.

an idealised a Lib Dem world, unsullied by the realities of

:18:52.:18:56.

politics. But as I said before, I think it is important that you have

:18:56.:19:00.

to find a way of reconnecting with your support a base. If you can do

:19:00.:19:10.

that, you might be on the way to something not too terrible. But are

:19:10.:19:13.

we at the point where what is happening is that at the top of the

:19:13.:19:17.

coalition, they get on well, and the further down you go, in both

:19:17.:19:24.

and more sniping? I notice The Guardian has got an argument

:19:24.:19:32.

between Danny Alexander and George Osborne over the environment.

:19:32.:19:36.

think that has always been said. There are a very strong dividing

:19:36.:19:41.

lines between these parties, they are not natural allies. But from

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Danny Alexander's point of view, it could be quite a good thing to do,

:19:45.:19:55.
:19:55.:19:55.

They have to be political parties for the next two weeks. We'll get

:19:55.:20:02.

more of. That The coalition can't go back to the innocent days either.

:20:02.:20:05.

They cannot pretend they haven't got a relationship with the

:20:05.:20:09.

Conservative Party. For some people, that's just a really unacceptable

:20:09.:20:13.

thing to do. I don't see it that way. They can't pretend it didn't

:20:13.:20:16.

happen or think that the voters on the left are going to forget that

:20:16.:20:21.

it happened. They've got to carve a strategy that doesn't depend on

:20:21.:20:24.

either going back to their old innocence and getting those voters

:20:24.:20:27.

or appealing to the left. They are now, they made a decision to be a

:20:27.:20:30.

centre party of Government. They've got to make the most of both of

:20:30.:20:36.

those things. My criticism of Nick's, Nick Clegg's broadcast was

:20:36.:20:41.

that it was doing neither. It wasn't really a ministerial, I'm a

:20:41.:20:45.

sort of person to take tough decisions and live the consequences

:20:45.:20:51.

of those. It wasn't accepting the reality of his position he had

:20:51.:20:56.

taken either. I notice the telegraph as well, agree to mansion

:20:56.:21:01.

tax block Clegg says. How does that actually plai out when you're in

:21:01.:21:05.

Government together? I think the Spending Review really is the

:21:05.:21:09.

problem for the Government. Because these dividing lines between the

:21:09.:21:12.

two parties will have to be on show as they negotiate in public over

:21:12.:21:18.

what's in the Spending Review. That creates a constant fault line which

:21:18.:21:23.

we'll see all the time over issues like. This if you -- if you look

:21:23.:21:28.

back at the budget, the cut to the top rate, Lib Dems didn't want it

:21:28.:21:31.

to happen. It proves unpopular. They want to re-emphasise the idea

:21:32.:21:35.

that, for them, that was a mistake and you have to go back all the

:21:35.:21:38.

time to make sure if the poor are going to suffer, the rich suffer as

:21:38.:21:46.

well. You will get these arguments. The deficit cutting is the Lib Dem

:21:46.:21:52.

Democrat policy or the coalition are in the -- or the Liberal

:21:52.:21:57.

Democrats are in the coalition for nothing. We leave it there. Thank

:21:57.:22:02.

you. Now, even to some Republican supporters Mitt Romney is giving a

:22:02.:22:05.

good impression of someone born with a silver foot in his mouth.

:22:06.:22:11.

Tonight he tried to end one long running row by publishing his tax

:22:11.:22:20.

returns for last year. He pays tax at around 14% of his $13 million

:22:20.:22:25.

annual earnings. There say hidden story behind the headlines. America

:22:25.:22:28.

remains a 50/50 nation, split between Republicans and Democrats

:22:28.:22:32.

and the political atmosphere in recent years has become so

:22:32.:22:36.

poisonous that the kind of bipartisan politics necessary to

:22:36.:22:40.

make government function smoothly are often missing. Justin web

:22:40.:22:48.

reports now from Florida. The glitz, glamour, the highs, the

:22:48.:22:54.

lows, the ever changing landscape of the Miami skyline, to many

:22:54.:22:59.

small-town Americans, Miami, the state of Florida, can look alien,

:22:59.:23:03.

too transient, too bold, too gleaming, but in 2012 as in

:23:03.:23:07.

previous elections all eyes are on this state. Florida matters, that's

:23:07.:23:10.

what we're going to be told over and over again in the weeks to come.

:23:10.:23:15.

29 electoral college votes, it's a big state. It could make all the

:23:15.:23:20.

difference between Obama and Romney. All of that is true. But who cares?

:23:20.:23:25.

To put it more precisely, are we missing the bigger picture, the

:23:25.:23:28.

wider story both for Florida and the rest of the United States,

:23:28.:23:34.

which is that this country has become essentially ungovernable,

:23:34.:23:40.

its politics are poisonous? Miami Dade College is the biggest

:23:40.:23:45.

in the nation, 175,000 students, many of them from minorities, all

:23:45.:23:48.

of them called out on the streets in this mass voter registration

:23:49.:23:53.

drive, a drive which comes at the end of months of court battles over

:23:53.:23:57.

access. What ID do you need to vote? How far in advance can you do

:23:57.:24:01.

it? It matters because poorer voters are less likely to have

:24:01.:24:06.

photo ID. Less likely to get to the polls on time, but more likely to

:24:06.:24:12.

vote Democrat if votes are counted. Voters think Florida Republicans

:24:12.:24:16.

are fighting dirty taking away their right to have their voices

:24:16.:24:20.

heard. The efforts throughout the state that have done so have come

:24:20.:24:23.

from Republican legislative bodies. In essence, then you have the

:24:23.:24:31.

effect of real live suppressing the vote. That's what you see its real

:24:31.:24:35.

purpose as? Exactly. That's a fundamental issue. If you think

:24:35.:24:39.

that people on the other side are really trying to stop their

:24:39.:24:42.

opponents voting. Extremely so, especially when you see that the

:24:42.:24:48.

people that register to vote with organisations like ours, that we

:24:48.:24:51.

are at the shopping malls, supermarkets are normally

:24:51.:24:55.

minorities. By stopping third party organisations from registering

:24:55.:25:03.

voters you are really stopping minorities from registering. On the

:25:03.:25:08.

other side of the fence they feel equally bitter, perhaps more so,

:25:08.:25:13.

the conservative talk radio station, not far from mieyama, cater for an

:25:13.:25:16.

audience many fee that the Democrats are trying to steel

:25:16.:25:21.

Florida with fake voters and fraud. I hope Floridians understand that

:25:21.:25:24.

this, what happens in Florida can decide who the next President of

:25:24.:25:26.

the United States is. Absolutely. Thank you Sir. I appreciate your

:25:26.:25:35.

time. Senator John McCain. I have no examples of anybody

:25:35.:25:38.

trying to suppress the vote. I think that people should have to

:25:38.:25:44.

prove who they are before they vote. I can't cash a cheque without a

:25:44.:25:48.

driver's license or federal ID, but we're allowing people to vote who

:25:48.:25:52.

never furnish proof of identity. They can walk into a voter

:25:52.:25:56.

registration drive and say their name is Tim Tebow and be given a

:25:56.:26:02.

ballot. You are saying some on the American left are deliberately

:26:02.:26:05.

getting false names onto the register? We know they did it in

:26:05.:26:09.

2008. They did it in 2010. My expectation is they'll probably do

:26:09.:26:16.

it again. Enough already! What interests me

:26:16.:26:21.

is what's caused this mess. Look at these Americans, do they look

:26:21.:26:28.

angry? Are they bumping into each other and not saying "excuse me "?

:26:28.:26:33.

Of course not, suburban America is a placid place. As sunny today as

:26:33.:26:39.

decades ago, or maybe not. Perhaps ordinary Americans are the problem.

:26:39.:26:44.

Many years ago the late senator Daniel Moynihan had a message for

:26:44.:26:47.

his fellow citizens, you are entitled as Americans to your own

:26:47.:26:52.

opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts. Well, Americans

:26:52.:26:56.

thought carefully about what the senator said and decided to take no

:26:56.:27:02.

notice. This grieves a man who's dabbled in fact and fiction, but

:27:02.:27:08.

still thinks there's a difference between them. Carl Hiaasen,

:27:08.:27:12.

novelist and columnist and Florida institution. Is it also the case

:27:12.:27:17.

that there is so much information out there that people use that

:27:17.:27:20.

information to back up what they already think. There are more

:27:20.:27:24.

sources of information that appear to back up your own case. I think

:27:24.:27:27.

that's absolutely true. We're all guilty of it to some extent. The

:27:27.:27:30.

difference is I'm looking for actual facts. I'm not looking for a

:27:30.:27:36.

talking head or a blog, a guy who's blogging in a closet in Utah.

:27:36.:27:40.

That's not where I'm going for my information. But I have the benefit

:27:40.:27:43.

of a lifetime in journalism. Most people don't. They're in a hurry.

:27:43.:27:47.

They're looking for information. If they're driving down the highway

:27:48.:27:52.

and steamed about something and they want to turn Rush Limbaugh on

:27:52.:27:55.

the radio to rant and rave about the Welfare State in America, and

:27:55.:27:59.

this is what they felt in their heart, that's where they're going

:27:59.:28:04.

to go on the dial. Is he changing anybody's mind? No. He's attracting

:28:04.:28:11.

people who think the way he does. There is another explanation for

:28:11.:28:15.

America's anger, a simpler one, which cries out at you as you drive

:28:15.:28:19.

across Florida. It's the economy. Not just this downturn, this

:28:19.:28:24.

explanation looks back at the last 50 years of American history. The

:28:24.:28:29.

nation has made and spent money, big money.

:28:29.:28:31.

# Wonderful town # Wonderful people #

:28:31.:28:35.

There were good years and bad, but the long-term trend in that time

:28:35.:28:38.

was always up. So a Republican President could always afford to

:28:38.:28:43.

give a little in public spending. Richard Nixon expanded social

:28:43.:28:47.

spending, called himself a Keynesian. A Democrat could reduce

:28:47.:28:50.

taxes as well without breaking the bank and everyone got a car with

:28:50.:28:56.

fins and felt OK. Now that's over. Perhaps for a long time. America's

:28:56.:29:02.

economy is growing again but only slowly. There's $16 trillion of

:29:02.:29:07.

debt to pay off or pay down. The University of Miami is as fine a

:29:07.:29:11.

place at any to contemplate the future of the nation. You need sun

:29:11.:29:17.

tan lotion, a fashionable computer and a strong stomach for gloomy

:29:17.:29:21.

talk. Part of the impasse is due to the fact we don't have enough to go

:29:21.:29:24.

around. We're in a rough period economically. The kind of

:29:24.:29:29.

flexibility and Leeway that was felt, you know, that were felt

:29:29.:29:32.

years ago and in previous decades under Bush and Clinton, you know,

:29:32.:29:37.

we no longer have that Leeway. We don't have the cushion of our own

:29:37.:29:40.

prosperity. The in-fighting or the battling has gotten worse.

:29:41.:29:50.

Absolutely. There'll be some Americans who point out this is

:29:50.:29:53.

still an energetic place, that energy doesn't come from Government.

:29:53.:29:57.

In fact, this might come from the lack of it. Perhaps we don't need

:29:57.:30:01.

the politicians, they'll say. America may be forced to find out

:30:01.:30:08.

in the years ahead if that's true. in the years ahead if that's true.

:30:08.:30:11.

Tomorrow morning's front pages: The Mail has "I'll have your job for

:30:11.:30:19.

this." The Daily Mirror - on yer bike, Tory minister told to quit

:30:19.:30:24.

after vile rant. The telegraph agree to mansion tax

:30:24.:30:29.

or we block cuts, says Clegg. And Chief Whip to get butler to make

:30:29.:30:33.

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