Browse content similar to 24/09/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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This programme contains some strong language. Tonight, planning a party | :00:10. | :00:14. | |
post coalition, how dot Lib Dems reconnect with voters while | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
insisting the coalition is the only show in town? At their party | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
conference today, Vince Cable became the highest profile figure | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
to suggest there could be a hung Parliament at the next election and | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
in his speech, he did his level best to demonstrate if he was | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
leader he could deal with both parties. I'll speak to one of the | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
architects of the coalition. Abu Hamza, Babar Ahmad and three | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
other terrorism suspects lose their battle not to be extradited to the | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
US. Why did it take so long? We'll speak to this human rights lawyer. | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
He's also Babar Ahmad brother in law. | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
It's still an apology up to a point from the Chief Whip. I'm very clear | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
about what I said and didn't say. I want to make it absolutely clear | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
that I did not use the words attributed to me. What does this | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
say about the Government's real attitude to the police? | :01:05. | :01:13. | |
Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this sun of | :01:13. | :01:19. | |
York. What will happen if the mortal remains of the -- if the | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
last Plantaganet king of England are in a car park? The yellow | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
marker marks the feet and the head near toast us. He's under the | :01:29. | :01:38. | |
:01:39. | :01:40. | ||
contact service parking space? Good evening. What happens when you | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
have to look both ways at once? That's the dilemma for the Liberal | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
Democrats at their annual knees-up in Brighton. One minute they're | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
boasting about what they've achieved in coalition Government. | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
The next they're talking about a different economic model, almost a | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
Plan B, that they'd deliver if they had a Government of our own. Our | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
political editor Allegra Stratton is there watching them twist and | :01:59. | :02:07. | |
turn. Vince Cable gave his speech today. It was quite a good speech. | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
Many people rated it. The thing was what he demonstrated throughout it | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
was that throughout being in Government he's been able to | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
persuade the Tories and cajole them into some of his ideas, like the | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
bank. For many months he wanted it and now he's got them to sign off | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
on it. He was rude about the Labour Party throughout his speech. The | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
idea that Vince Cable is a shoe-in to go into Government with the | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
Labour Party, if there was a hung Parliament, is wrong. This was | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
today a speech where he was showing that he could do a deal with both | :02:37. | :02:44. | |
parties. This time last year, he described | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
battling the recession as a war. And he meant it. Now he's come to | :02:48. | :02:55. | |
stand for many things, V for Vince, V for victory and even for some of | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
his supporters, V For Vendetta. There's a lot riding on these two | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
shoulders or two fingers. There's great anxiety in the hall about | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
what to do about both the party's fortune and also the economy. For | :03:06. | :03:12. | |
many, Vince Cable is the man to turn both around. First, the | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
obligatory crowd pleaser, a suggestion that the Conservatives | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
were turned on by sacking people, an offence to the majority of | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
Tories who believe in greater deregulation. We've seen off the | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
head bangers, who want a hire and firaclure and seem to find the idea | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
of sacking people as some kind of aphrodisiac. | :03:33. | :03:40. | |
With that done, onto V for vision, economic vision. We need a new | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
British business bank with a clean balance sheet and an ability to | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
expand lending rapidly to the manufacturers, exporters, the high | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
growth companies that power our economy. And I can announce to you | :03:54. | :04:01. | |
today that we will have one. This is no small thing. With �1 billion | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
up front capital it's not far off the investment banks capital who | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
have in the region of �5 billion. But it was familiar. This was | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
broadcast at the weekend. actually, it's that this morning I, | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
well I set up a community bank. What? You did what? You set up a | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
bank? I had a moment of weakness and they exploited it. Yeah we | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
didn't have much choice because it was all going to piss in a kettle | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
here. We had to get the Economist out of the way. What are you | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
talking about? We were having a preliminary meeting when Phil | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
started to crow. It was embarrassing. You bought a bank out | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
of social embarrassment? I sometimes buy the big issue out of | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
social embarrassment, I don't buy a -- buy a fucking bank. That the | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
thick of it beat the Business Secretary to announcing his own | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
policy is because Vince Cable has been talking about this bank for | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
some time now. The Chancellor and Vince Cable have been pushing what | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
is an activist and interventionist straty. Many inside Government say | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
there's a lot of Plan B in this Plan A. Nonetheless, some in the | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
party want Plan B, the actual thing. They hay vote in the afternoon. It | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
was rejected. In his speech Cable ridiculed Ed Balls call for a Plan | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
B. He might as well have been ridiculing some of his own audience. | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
Even so, see how thae plauz. Balls says, workers of the world | :05:28. | :05:37. | |
unite, we need a Plan B. We should, he says, not cut the deficit in six | :05:37. | :05:44. | |
years, but seven. Wow! The key paragraph is probably this one | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
coming up, his bank will help. But Cable knows other efforts may be | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
needed. Right now we're fighting recession and the need is for a | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
demand stimulus. The country must not get stuck in a downward | :06:02. | :06:08. | |
escalator where slow or no growth means bigger deficits, leading to | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
more cuts and even slower growth. That is the way to economic | :06:13. | :06:21. | |
disaster and political on livion. Note that mention of political | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
oblivion, the opinion polls suggest Cable is a political chezman | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
capable of bringing back long departed voters. Conservatives are | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
beginning to push that they think their friend Nick Clegg is a busted | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
frush and instead Vince Cable should become Deputy Prime Minister | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
at some point. Why? The argument goes if you have Vince Cable as | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
Deputy Prime Minister it's easier to see how you have a PM David | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
Cameron in the future and harder to see how Ed Miliband would run his | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
own Government. That is the Conservative plan V. When we ask | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
people how they would vote if Vince Cable were leader of the Liberal | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
Democrats rather than Nick Clegg, the votes go up from around three | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
million to around four million. Not back to the seven million there | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
were in 2010. But a useful lift. It looks to me as if the bulk of this | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
extra million come from people who voted Lib Dem last time, went back | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
to Labour because they didn't like the coalition and would consider | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
voting for another left of centre Lib Dem leader. Would it make a | :07:21. | :07:27. | |
second Prime Ministerial term for David Cameron more likely? All the | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
calculations of who will do a deal after the next election depends | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
critically on the numbers. Unless Labour and Conservatives are very | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
close together, if there's a hung Parliament, the Lib Dems will be | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
forced, as last time, to do a deal with the larger partyment Of course, | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
what dot Lib Dems hate more than anything else? It's being told by | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
other people who should be their leader. That was a future leader | :07:50. | :07:57. | |
speaking, wasn't it? Oh, he's excellent, yes. But I think he has | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
always enjoyed being in the, on the finance side. I think this | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
conference is going to help Nick Clegg build himself up again. It's | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
not us we're angry with him, it's the people on the doorstep, who say | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
oh, he increased the tuition fees. When he explain it's properly, they | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
are aggressive with you, but then they are ready to listen. We're | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
getting our members back. Business Secretary went where | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
others haven't gone so far. He predicted a hung Parliament at the | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
next election. I don't believe actually that the British people | :08:34. | :08:41. | |
will want to entrust their future to any one party next time. If | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
wapbtsz... There we have it from the mouth of Vince Cable, the | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
British electorate won't trust themselves to have one party. What | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
is he up to with this plan? If you ask small businesses what their | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
problem is at the moment, you hear a lot of the F Word. We heard the | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
Thick of it there. The F word for businesses is finance. They can't | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
get. It Vince Cable's department estimates between 90 and �180 | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
billion worth of finance is missing from the system. What they'll do is | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
take �1 billion worth of taxpayers' money, with private sector money, | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
maybe �10 billion, it gets lent, as a one off to try and just plug a | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
bit this afternoon gap. How radical is this? Frankly some small | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
businesses can't take the 18 months. It's small. It's not exactly the | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
speediest move from A to B in terms of plans. But north Dakota has a | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
bigger state investment bank than �1 billion. It has $4 billion | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
investment bank. Germany 18 billion. It says taxpayers' money can be put | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
at risk to lend, albeit indirectly, straight to private businesses and | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
that lending can be state directed. The Government will choose sectors, | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
regions, maybe individual businesses that it thinks are a | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
good bet for the overall economic strategy. 13 years of the New | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
Labour third way never produced that. Whatever his detractors will | :10:10. | :10:18. | |
say tonight. Vince has put his name on the bank. The same was -- as | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
Boris his put his name on bikes. It's a real thing. The need to do | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
this was to do something completely different? Well, I mean, look, it's | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
a tacit admission that all the other things they have done, the | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
Project Merlin, the voluntary hitting the targets by banks, | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
haven't worked. Trying to get RBS as an investment bank, none of it | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
has resulted in lending to British businesses. They are crying out for | :10:44. | :10:50. | |
money. They need that capital to be able to do what Cable has | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
skphrainked, which is a demand-led recovery. Thanks very much. | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
Earlier I spoke to David Laws, the Schools Minister, who has cross- | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
Government responsibility for policy. I asked how the investment | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
bank to have an impact on the current economic situation if it | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
isn't going to start for 18 months. This is an extraordinary measure in | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
extraordinary times. It's the right thing to do. It comes on top of a | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
series of other pro-growth measures taken by the Government, including | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
the funding for lending scheme, which is under way, in which the | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
Bank of England is getting additional credit to the existing | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
financial institutions to help them to lend and keep the price of | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
credit down. This was one of six, seven, eight, nine, ten, pro-growth | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
initiatives being taken by the Government over the last few months. | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
So then, we'll have another announcement, another bone being | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
thrown by Nick Clegg tomorrow. That will be �100 million extra for | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
nursery places. Where is the money coming from? It's coming from the | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
existing capital allocation that is granted by the Treasury to the | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
Department for Education. It hasn't been allocated yet. But it's | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
incredibly important for the delivery of the pledge we made as a | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
Government that Nick Clegg was very much involved in that we would | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
provide additional places so there could be a free 15 hours of nursery, | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
early years education for every two-year-old from the... So it's | :12:17. | :12:24. | |
not new money? It's just shifting money from another part of the | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
education budget. It's not a pledge of new money. It's not something | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
that Nick Clegg has managed to ring out of the Department of Education, | :12:31. | :12:39. | |
something new. It's just old money. It is money which Nick and others | :12:39. | :12:45. | |
have managed to negotiate with Michael Gove to allocate to | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
specifically to deliver the pledge to increase the number of places, | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
free places for two-year-olds, which is incredibly important for | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
making sure that we get a high quality of early years education, | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
particularly for those most disadvantaged young people. | :13:00. | :13:07. | |
who's loseing out, who's loseing �100 million in the Department of | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
Education. If it's not new money, somewhere else is suffering? | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
comes out of the overall capital allocation that the Department for | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
Education has. Some of that gets allocated at the beginning of the | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
year. Some of that throughout the year. This is an allocation which | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
Nick Clegg has agreed with Michael Gove will go specifically into | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
providing those places for two- year-olds, those 15 hours of free | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
early years education, which is such an important part of our | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
strategy to give the best possible opportunities for young people from | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
more disadvantaged backgrounds. Let's be clear on where we stand on | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
the Government spending plans, because at the 2011 Autumn | :13:45. | :13:52. | |
Statement, Danny Alexander agreed with George Osborne that they would | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
stick to the spending plans for 2015/16 and 16/17, but that's not | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
the case any more. But Nick Clegg said it was just 15/16. So you | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
diverge with the rest of the coalition on this? No, there are | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
separate issues. The first thing is that the Government is part of his | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
long-term planning, budget planning has to set out a level of total | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
public expenditure in order to meet the fiscal mandate which looks five | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
years ahead. That's exactly what the Chancellor did in the Autumn | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
Statement. In addition to that, the Government has to agree the | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
detailed departmental break down of that total figure for expenditure. | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
We have that so far for every year of this Parliament. I understand | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
now. That means then that the Chancellor agrees now with Nick | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
Clegg that actually, these spending plans for 2015/16 are the final | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
spending plans? It means that so far we've agreed the detailed | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
spending plans for each department and for the welfare budget right | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
through to the end of 2014/15. However, it's very clear that at | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
the very least we will have to have detailed departmental spending | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
plans and welfare plans for 2015/16, because the general election is | :15:08. | :15:18. | |
:15:18. | :15:21. | ||
going to take place within that Danny Alexander was wrong? No, he | :15:21. | :15:27. | |
was right. What he said was we will have to have detailed plans. That | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
is a separate issue that in the Autumn Statement last year there | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
was a planning assumption set out for total managed expenditure going | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
into 2016/17. What we are now talking about is the extent to | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
which we have a detailed breakdown of those overall figures for | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
particular years. Nick Clegg said that it is wrong to have a further | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
welfare cut of �10 billion. What is acceptable to the Liberal | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
Democrats? �1 billion? �2 billion? What is not acceptable to us is | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
that we should go into a second stage of auster toy -- austerity to | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
reduce borrowing without there being a contribution from those | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
people on very high income. You will remember when the coalition | :16:10. | :16:20. | |
:16:20. | :16:21. | ||
was formed, there was a contribution from taxation. And | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
more recently, Nick has become concerned that some of the debate | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
in the media and elsewhere has focused just on there being a | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
contribution to any further austerity from departmental | :16:31. | :16:39. | |
spending. �10 billion on welfare - a �10 billion cut in welfare is | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
unacceptable to the Liberal Democrats? There is no movement on | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
that? What's unacceptable for us is that the next stage of austerity | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
should simply consist of welfare cuts for people on low incomes | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
without people on high incomes making a decent contribution. That | :16:53. | :16:59. | |
is the case in the first round of fiscal austerity after 2010 and | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
that's got to be the case for any further austerity going ahead. That | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
is the view that most commonsense members of the public would have | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
that people on high incomes have to make a sensible contribution. | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
become - we get nearer the election, the coalition looks less and less | :17:18. | :17:28. | |
:17:28. | :17:29. | ||
tenable because you cannot - you have to distance yourself otherwise | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
it becomes crazy, because you diverge on so many issues? I think | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
there is a great degree of unity in a lot of policy areas in the | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
coalition, particularly on the economic strategy. There is going | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
to be renewed focus in the autumn for us to agree a common programme | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
of policies that will take us through the last two-and-a-half | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
years of this Parliament. It is inevitably the case, though, that | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
as we get into the last three or six months running towards a | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
general election, the parties will be focused on delivering the agreed | :18:03. | :18:11. | |
programme and on setting out their competing visions of where they | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
should go. That's just obvious. Most of the Parliament will be able | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
to work co-operatively together. Of course, before the next general | :18:19. | :18:26. | |
election, there will be a focus on the future. Thank you very much. | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
He's cost the British taxpayer many millions in legal and detentions | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
costs, but Abu Hamza's appeal against extradition, and that of | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
four other terror suspects have been unanimously rejected by | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
Europe's Human Rights Judges. So, within a few weeks, the radical | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
cleric could be put on a plane to the United States to face multiple | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
charges. I'm joined by Peter Marshall. What these cases have in | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
common, all five, is that all the individuals applied to the European | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
Court to stop their extradition to the US because they said they | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
feared in these US top-security prisons they could be subjected to | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
torture or cruel and inhumane treatment. The European Court | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
turned down their request in April and today they turned down their | :19:09. | :19:16. | |
application to lodge an appeal. are they? Well, like Frank Sinatra, | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
Abu Hamza needs no introduction. I reported on his activities 11 years | :19:20. | :19:30. | |
:19:30. | :19:37. | ||
ago when he took over the Finsbury Park Mosque. He revelled in his | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
bloodthirsty reputation. Eventually, in 2006, he was jailed for seven | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
years by a UK court for soliciting murder and inciting racial hatred. | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
That's different from anything that he's wanted for in America. How | :19:52. | :20:01. | |
extensive are these... That's in connection with his alleged | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
association with a kidnap of 16 Western tourists in Yemen. There | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
was a shoot-out at the end when the Yemeni authorities attempted to | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
rescue these tourists, but four were killed. The Americans want him | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
for trying to set up a training camp in the US. What about the | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
others? Most notable is Babar Ahmad, a student and computer expert who | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
has been in custody without trial since 2004. That is eight years. | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
The Americans say he was soliciting funds for terrorist activities on a | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
website he ran. He denies that and he's waged a long campaign with a | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
lot of support. If he is to be tried anywhere, his supporters say | :20:45. | :20:53. | |
it should be the UK. The others are Syed Talha Ahsan and two other men, | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
Adel Abdul Bary and Khaled Al Fawwaz, who were accused of being | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
aides to Osama Bin Laden. The Home Office have said that they could be | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
gone within days, certainly within weeks. Thank you. | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
In Birmingham is Fahad Ansari, a human rights lawyer and Babar | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
Ahmad's brother-in-law. From Washington, we're joined by David | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
Rivkin, a lawyer who worked in the Justice Department and as an | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
associate White House Counsel in the Reagan and Bush Senior | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
administrations. And here in London, the Conservative MP, Patrick Mercer, | :21:19. | :21:27. | |
the former chairman of the Commons Counter-Terrorism Sub-Committee. | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
Fahad Ansari, what is your reaction to tonight's decision? We are | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
obviously quite disappointed with Europe's decision. We are not very | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
surprised. It is really irrelevant for us. This matter should never | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
have even reached Strasbourg. If the British police had done their | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
job nine years ago, and submitted the material seized from Babar | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
Ahmad's home to the domestic prosecution authorities rather than | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
secretly sending it to their US counterparts, Babar Ahmad would | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
have been prosecuted in this country and if convicted, would | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
have been released by now. Nothing to do with Abu Hamza, it is Babar | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
Ahmad's case that you are pursuing? Absolutely. Obviously, my | :22:12. | :22:20. | |
involvement with these cases has been with Babar Ahmad's case as a | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
family member and a campaign member from the last seven or eight years. | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
This issue, he is a British citizen, he is someone who has worked and | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
lived in this country his entire life. He's someone who is accused | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
of a crime committed in this country. The crime was not | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
committed in America. It was not committed in Russia or Pakistan. He | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
should face trial in this country. We have never said that he should | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
escape trial. We have always called for him to face the serious | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
questions in a British court of law. That is the judicial process | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
running its long course, Patrick Mercer. Do you accept that it had | :22:52. | :22:59. | |
to take this length of time? disappointed that this has had to | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
take this length of time. These men are innocent until proved guilty. | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
We must not get away from that. What I do think is quite wrong is | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
that individuals should have had to spend this amount of time, not just | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
being deeply concerned about their future, not knowing whether they | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
are found guilty or innocent, but absorbing British taxpayers' money. | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
I wish it hadn't taken this long. I'm glad we seem to be approaching | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
a resolution. Do you make any quantitative difference between | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
alleged crimes committed here and abroad, as Fahad Ansari is saying? | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
I think that individuals should be tried in the country where the | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
crime is committed. David Rivkin, what is your view of tonight's | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
decision? Well, it's high time. My view is the reason it's taken so | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
many years is because these individuals and lawyers have | :23:49. | :23:55. | |
advanced all sorts of arguments for the British Criminal Justice System, | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
then for the European justice system. I don't understand they | :23:58. | :24:04. | |
should have been tried only in the United Kingdom. Under our | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
extradition treaty with Great Britain, if you commit a crime that | :24:08. | :24:18. | |
:24:18. | :24:18. | ||
takes place using electronic means, using websites, using other | :24:18. | :24:24. | |
communications there is a variety of choices prosecutors have. I | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
don't know any principle that says you should only be tried in Britain, | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
or France, or Germany. The notion they would be tortured in the | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
United States is preposterous. The reason the arguments took so long | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
to resolve is because the lawyers pressed all the buttons. I don't | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
feel any sympathy for them. lawyers pressed all the buttons | :24:42. | :24:47. | |
that there were there to press? should they complain about how long | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
it's taken? It is a silly argument, don't you think? Fahad Ansari, can | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
you respond? For a representative of the Government of the United | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
States to argue that the United States doesn't torture is | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
preposterous. As regards to this specific case, we have due process. | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
The problem was, there was an abuse of that process nine years ago when | :25:09. | :25:15. | |
the evidence was not given to the DPP. In terms of prosecuting Babar | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
Ahmad and Syed Talha Ahsan in this country, the offence has taken | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
place in the United Kingdom. They are British citizens, they have not | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
stepped foot in the United States. So why should they be extradited to | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
the United States? The websites in question were accused of running | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
campaigns in Chechnya, so if that was the case, why haven't Russia | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
requested the extradition? And in Afghanistan. Again, there is a | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
British interest. 150,000 people signed a petition for Babar Ahmad | :25:43. | :25:49. | |
to be tried in this country. There is enormous public interest. The | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
DPP has that evidence for the first time in eight years. They have been | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
presented with the evidence and he is trustworthy and honest and | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
integrity enough to make a proper decision on this. David Rivkin, the | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
question that Babar Ahmad and others ask is whether or not these | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
men will get a fair trial in America? I would say of course | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
they'll get a fair trial. I don't know what evidence of torture the | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
gentleman is talking about. I can tell you even if you don't like | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
military justice systems in Guantanamo, they will be tried in | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
the civilian justice system. That is THE most due process-laden | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
system in the world. If I was a guilty person, I would rather be | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
tried in the United States than anywhere in the world. If he is | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
convicted, he will be serving his time in humane conditions without | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
any torture. This is all quite preposterous. One more thing. I | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
don't understand the notion that had he been prosecuted in the UK he | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
would somehow have not been eligible for extradition to the | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
United States. The American government made a showing to the | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
Criminal Justice System that they have committed a crime... That is | :27:00. | :27:09. | |
not true. You display your ignorance of the Treaty. That is | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
the problem with this treaty which campaigners have been... Let me | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
bring Patrick Mercer in on this. These are strained relations? | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
course it is. I believe that they will get a proper trial in America. | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
I'm convinced of that. Above everything else, no matter what the | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
lawyers say, if I talk to my constituents, 99 out of 100 - and I | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
have tried to do this - say, "Get these men out of this country, get | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
them back to the country whereas they will receive the proper | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
trial." Is this a victory for the European Courts? I think - I don't | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
think it is a victory at all. This has taken far too long for us to | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
come to this particular point. What I would say is I hope that in the | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
future that our Government looks towards its memoranda of | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
understanding that it has negotiated with the various | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
countries involved and invokes those properly and early? People | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
have the recourse of the European Court, that is their right? | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
course they do. The fact remains that I think the majority of the | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
people inside this country deeply resent the amount of time that | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
these individuals have stayed here and consumed their taxes. Now, at | :28:19. | :28:25. | |
last, we are getting the right result. I would second that. Fahad | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
Ansari, what is your next step? would request the Home Secretary to | :28:31. | :28:37. | |
undertake not to extradite Babar Ahmad and Syed Talha Ahsan until | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
the Director of Public Prosecutions has made a decision on whether | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
there is a case to answer for them being prosecuted in the UK. For the | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
first time, he has the evidence which was kept hidden from the | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
Crown Prosecution Service for eight years and he's a man of integrity. | :28:50. | :28:57. | |
I trust he will make the same decision that 150,000 people, more | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
people than in Theresa May's constituency have asked for. Thank | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
you. Like all scandals that threaten the careers of Cabinet | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
ministers, it is the length of time they are in the headlines and | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
questions that remain unanswered that often prove to be their | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
undoing. And so the Government's Chief Whip was up early this | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
morning to speak truth unto the nation that he didn't call Downing | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
Street police officers "plebs". His problem, however, remains that many, | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
including the police, still maintain that is not quite the | :29:27. | :29:35. | |
truth. 8.02am, a camera crew is summoned | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
to Whitehall on the promise that Andrew Mitchell, the Chief Whip, | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
was to break his silence. He arrived not in any grand | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
ministerial Jag, but in a hatchback, a pleb's car, were one ever to use | :29:51. | :29:59. | |
What exactly did you say to the police officers on Wednesday? | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
wants first of all to reiterate the apology I made last week, after the | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
incident on Wednesday night in Downing Street. It had been the end | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
of a long and extremely frustrating day, not that that is any excuse at | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
all for what happened. I didn't show the police the amount of | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
respect I should have done. We should all respect the police. They | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
do an incredibly difficult job. I've apologised to the police. I've | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
apologised to the police officer involved on the gate and he's | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
accepted my apology. I hope very much that we can draw a line under | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
it there. It hadn't worked before the weekend. So limiting his | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
comments to camera to what he said in a written statement on Friday | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
was never going to work now. Mr Mitchell far from drawing a line | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
under this issue, simply seemed to underscore his failure to address | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
the key questions. Had he sworn at the police and had he called them | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
plebs? I'm very clear about what I said and what I didn't say. I want | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
to make it absolutely clear that I did not use the words that have | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
been attributed to me. With that he was gone, dais peering into the | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
Cabinet Office only yards from the scene of his original troubles. The | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
Sun meanwhile had its teeth in Mr Mitchell's rump and wasn't letting | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
go. Its leading political columnist said it was serious and simple, Mr | :31:17. | :31:23. | |
Mitchell had to take the police to law. If the police are indeed lying, | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
which is the only other alternative, which is a substantial lie if it's | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
correct, they have an officer in the diplomatic protection service | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
who has given evidence on her official log... Backed up by others | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
as well. Backed up by witnesss in the same service. Why would they do | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
that? Why concoct a story which would be extremely damaging and | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
then to leak it to the press? You're saying Mr Mitchell is | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
obliged either to sue or resign? think he has no choice. He has to | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
take them on. This cannot be allowed to stand. Home Secretary | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
found earlier this year how taking the police on, over pay and | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
pensions would lead to real difficulties. Trevor Kavanagh says | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
David Cameron is now to reap the whirlwind from Mitchellgate. One of | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
the problems that arises from this is that the Prime Minister has now | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
come out whole heartedly in support of the police in such a way, that | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
it weakens the operation, the policy that the Government's | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
pursuing of trying to reform the police. It gives the moral high | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
ground to the Police Federation, which is resisting by tooth and | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
nail everything that the Home Secretary is trying to do to reform | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
the Police Service. Mr Mitchell may be very clear about what he said. | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
Others aren't. His friends have been briefing he did swear at the | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
police officers, one policewoman and one policeman, but he didn't | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
call them plebs, the class word. The Sun today repeated what it said | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
they said he'd said. "Best you learn your (BLEEP)ing place. You | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
don't run this (BLEEP)ing Government. You're (BLEEP)ing | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
plebs." Sun which many see as the Conservative party of the plebian | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
wing say Mr Mitchell's comments wreck David Cameron's attempts to | :33:07. | :33:12. | |
rid the party of its image as posh boys and Bullingdon Club bullies. | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
Their coalition partners, who have to take their laughs where they | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
find them, were tickled pink by Vince Cable's efforts to rejoin the | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
class war at their party conference. Being told however that jokes about | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
social class are not good for the unity of the coalition. But as a | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
mere pleb, I couldn't resist it. LAUGHTER | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
APPLAUSE The Liberal Democrats Home Office | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
minister playing it straight said in his view Andrew Mitchell still | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
had a lot of explaining to do. can understand as well why people | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
feel we need to get to the bottom of it and explaining to the media | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
what was not said is not the same as explaining what was said. There | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
is a sense of all the loose ends not being tied up. There was some | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
relief for Mr Mitchell tonight with the Cabinet Secretary ruling he won | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
be investigated because the police officer had made no complaint. Mr | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
Mitchell is denying telling the officers from the Diplomatic | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
Protection Group "you haven't heard the last of this." He'll be hoping | :34:13. | :34:19. | |
it is the last of it. Extraordinary goings on in a car | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
park in Leicester could change history and resurrect the | :34:21. | :34:28. | |
reputation of a king, who's been marked by history as a grotesque | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
murderer. If the remains are those of Richard III it may start a chain | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
of events which would render Shakespeare's famous play and | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
history books suspect. He may not have killed his nephews after all. | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
Who knows. Much to discuss in a moment. First David grosman has | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
been watching as events unfold. If you don't know your Plantaganet | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
from a hole in the ground, you probably still know Richard III. | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
Now is the winter of our discontent... That's him, or is it? | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
At the bottom of a hole in the ground in a Council car park in | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
Leicester, wre told there have been located the bones of the last | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
Plantaganet king. This particular performance of Richard III closes | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
soon. They start filling in the hole tomorrow. But what this ark | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
logical dig has really uncovered is how deep feelings still run about | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
this long dead monarch. There are people in Britain, indeed all round | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
the world who are spectacularly furious that their hero should be | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
portrayed as a tyrant. There's a lot of information about Richard | :35:37. | :35:45. | |
III before the Tudor writers to get to him. What you can see is | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
perversely, you see a man who was loyal, brave, pius and just. It's | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
completely the opposite of Shakespeare's portrayal. This | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
wasn't just you came along, dug the car park and found bones and you | :36:00. | :36:06. | |
thought, well that could be Richard III? Not quite. The lead | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
archaeologist on the dig is Richard Buckley from the University of | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
Leicester. He said the first clue was the position of the body in the | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
part of an extra investigated friary which corps responds with | :36:17. | :36:19. | |
contemporary reports. But there was more compelling evidence. | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
second thing is the signs on the skeletal remains themselves, | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
particularly the spinal abnormality, trauma to the skull and then the | :36:29. | :36:36. | |
remains of this projectile point between two vertebrae. It was an | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
unusual burial in that clearly somebody had died a violent death | :36:38. | :36:43. | |
and it was if the choir of a church. And there the spinal abnormality. I | :36:43. | :36:49. | |
thought that was all Shakespeare's imagination. Well, this is, this | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
abnormality doesn't necessarily mean that he was a hunch back as | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
Shakespeare says. It's an abnormality that lots of people | :36:56. | :37:02. | |
have. It may mean one shoulder was higher than the other. That got | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
exaggerated in the telling. He did ride into battle and so forth. It | :37:06. | :37:11. | |
didn't affect his mobility at all. Do you feel a sort of, an affinity | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
with him here. Do you find an emotional connection with Richard | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
III as a character or is he just a person from history? I'm beginning | :37:20. | :37:26. | |
to, funnily enough. As an orkologist we dig barials all the | :37:26. | :37:34. | |
time. Usually they're unnamed people. We know nothing about them. | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
To find a burial of a potentially named individual and somebody who | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
has died a violent death, yes, it's a moving experience. | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
# Heifer had a hump and my arm was all right # | :37:47. | :37:53. | |
There have been attempts to rehabilitate Richard, like on | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
horrible histories, the children's programme. | :37:56. | :38:03. | |
# Tudor propaganda, it's all absurd # Time to tell the truth about King | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
Richard III # It was Shakespeare who took | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
Richard's reputation, but should recare? After all in return he gave | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
us a great work of literature. Shakespeare did him an odd favour, | :38:16. | :38:25. | |
didn't they, because Edward IV and Henry VII don't rank very high and | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
in the middle is Richard III who is a major figure, for all the wrong | :38:30. | :38:38. | |
reasons. So Shakespeare's done him a sort of strange service. Between | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
infamy and being forgotten... you choose infamy? I suppose you | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
might, 500 years later. If you then get, if everyone then gets told | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
that you weren't so bad after all. It might all work out very nicely | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
for him. He gets the glamour and he gets a decent biography. And maybe | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
a good funeral. Maybe. So what should happen to him now do you | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
think? There's going to be much debate between interested parties | :39:04. | :39:09. | |
as to his final resting place. State funeral do you think? | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
knows. I wouldn't like to say. Might be nice. We've had the | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
Jubilee and the Olympics, Richard III's state funeral could be the | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
next big thing. We in Leicester would like to see him stay here. | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
The people in York say he should come to York. People in London say | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
oh, Westminster Abbey. Why Leicester? I suppose he died in | :39:30. | :39:36. | |
Leicestershire at Bosworth. That is true. He's been buried here for 527 | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
years and nobody's shown any interest until now in looking for | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
him and removing him. So finders keepers? Yeah, probably. | :39:43. | :39:50. | |
# Now my tale is told, you won't hear a bad word | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
# About a special ruler, King Richard III. | :39:54. | :40:02. | |
I'm a nice guy. Here to help us decide whether it | :40:02. | :40:09. | |
was good King Richard or crook back dig, are Dan Jones and Annette | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
Carson author of Richard III the maligned king. Whether or not these | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
are the bones of King Richard it won't make much difference to you | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
because you think he's a good guy? Not being an historian I don't go | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
in for judgments about people. I'm more interested in buy graphical | :40:27. | :40:33. | |
material. I'm interested in people who make the best of a bad job. | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
believe... They get dealt a bad hand and they get on with it. | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
believe he was maligned. However you, tell me about what you think | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
about this dig in the first place and whether or not it's going to be | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
conclusive evidence? I think one of the impressive things is that they | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
found the spot. This was research which located the choir of the | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
church of the grey friars and found a body which may or may not be | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
Richard. If it is Richard and there's going to be the DNA | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
decision, it doesn't actually alter anything in history about whether | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
or not he did away with the Princes. That still is completely uncertain. | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
Absolutely. If we found a skeleton the DNA tests prove is Richard III, | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
then we've found a skeleton that DNA proves is he. It doesn't alter | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
anything else we know of his career. Unless there is permission given in | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
Westminster Abbey to dig up the Princes and see if there's a DNA | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
connection with Richard, am I right? Yes, but it's a long shot as | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
to whether that's likely to happen. I don't think anyone's agitating | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
for it. What we're interested in now is the fact that Richard has | :41:42. | :41:48. | |
become something of a cause celebre. The media are terrifically stirred | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
up about it. People in England now are watching the television and | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
thinking, oh, maybe I'll find out more about this guy. From that | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
point of view, it can only be a good thing that he's become | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
somebody that people are interested in right now. If you want to solve | :42:02. | :42:08. | |
a mystery, that's really a whole different ball game. We're not | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
detectives. But what would be exciting for you as an outcome from | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
this? It would be exciting to know that we'd located the bones of | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
Richard III. There's no doubt about that. Aside from that I don't know | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
what more we're going to tell about Richard other than what we know | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
already. We're not going to tell whether or not it was he who killed | :42:30. | :42:34. | |
the Princes or Henry Tudor. Absolutely not. It's not going to | :42:34. | :42:44. | |
:42:44. | :42:44. | ||
alter one crime from his reign from which everything else followed. | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
was saying if you looked at pre- Tudor sources there's less | :42:48. | :42:54. | |
propaganda. There's a different view of King Richard. What we know | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
about Richard before he became king and while he was king, he was a | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
loyal aristocrat and a capable soldier. If this were his soldier, | :43:02. | :43:08. | |
all the injuries, head wounds and arrow in the back, would be | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
consistent with Tudor historians that he was a brave soldier on the | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
battlefield. It is enormously fascinating, isn't it? People are | :43:16. | :43:22. | |
gripped by this, because you don't find a monarch very often, do you? | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
You don't. People are gripped by Richard III any way. The reign | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
lasted two years. The gap between the black propaganda which emanated | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
from Tudor historians, early in Henry VII reign and he was turned | :43:36. | :43:44. | |
into a Plantaganet iago by Shakespeare. It seemed he was quite | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
a competent king, although only for two years. And this deformed | :43:49. | :43:57. | |
monster is so huge people are fascinated. Extol os is is not the | :43:57. | :44:04. | |
Shakespearean humpback. It is not a hunch back, that has another name. | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
Scoliosis is an S bend in the spine which makes one shoulder higher | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
than the other and depending on the severity. When all the work is done | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
on the body, then the big decision will have to be made about where to | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
have the funeral and what kind of funeral to have. What's your view? | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
It's out of our hands. At the moment, we have a plan and now | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
suddenly a load of other people have leapt in. What's your plan? | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
The plan has always been, according to good ark logical prob tis, if | :44:35. | :44:41. | |
you exhume body when you reinter it, you place it in the nearest, the | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
place that's nearest to where you exhumed it from. You go for | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
Leicester? Yes. Would you go for York or Westminster Abbey? I think | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
you have to stick with best practice and go with Leicester. I | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
think the city of Leicester will be delighted. They have put a lot of | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
work in it. They have closed a Council car park all summer. | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
he's a monarch, shouldn't he be interred in Westminster Abbey? | :45:04. | :45:10. | |
don't know. I think there would be something cartoonish for the bones | :45:10. | :45:15. | |
of a medieval king. We haven't heard from the Queen. Westminster | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
Abbey is actually a bit Tudor inclined you know. It's not the | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
place I would have chosen. wouldn't be happy there then. Thank | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
you both very much. And the front you both very much. And the front | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
pages. The Sun go all out: Now cop pleb row minister claims outburst | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
came after long and frustrating day, presumably this included his | :45:34. | :45:40. | |
gruelling lunch time Serb at UK's poshest curry house. The Daily | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
Telegraph, police log reveals details of the pleb rant and there | :45:44. | :45:51. | |
the picture of Megan, mother's plea to run away. The Guardian - torture | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
traumatised scar, the children caught up in Syria's war. And on | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
their bottom page, Abu Hamza to be extradited to the US. | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
That's all from Newsnight tonight. Sleep well, unlike as Richard III | :46:05. | :46:11. | |
says the son's of Edward sleep in Abraham's boz om. Jeremy will be | :46:11. | :46:21. | |
:46:21. | :46:43. | ||
Hello. We seem to have roared straight into Autumn. Rain and | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
gales continuing overnight and for Tuesday as well across northern | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
England, Northern Ireland and across many parts of Wales too. | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
Across Scotland the initial rain easing away across southern areas | :46:55. | :47:00. | |
but the winds continue through the afternoon. As will the rain in | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
North West England. Very different across the south-east. East Anglia, | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
south-east England one or two showers but sunshine coming through. | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
Temperatures 15 or 16 degrees. Persistent rain starts to swing | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
back in to south-west England as the afternoon wears on. It turns | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
increasingly wet across the rest of Wales too. Across North Wales it | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
rains more much of the day. That could cause further problems. | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
Northern Ireland, brisk northerly winds blowing the rain away. It | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
make it's feel chilly, 12 or 13 degrees at best. Northern Scotland | :47:30. | :47:37. | |
hang onto the rain and strongest winds. Still some rain around | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
certainly and fairly low temperatures through Tuesday. | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
Notice a bit less in the way of rain, once we get through to | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
Wednesday and a better chance of one or two sunny intervals breaking | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
through, certainly the case further south. Don't rule out heavy showers | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
across southern parts of England during Wednesday. There could be | :47:52. | :47:55. |