12/10/2012 Newsnight


12/10/2012

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Gavin Esler.


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Tonight, the BBC on the rack. Two new inquiries announced, one into

:00:15.:00:20.

the years Jimmy Savile worked at the BBC, another into any failings

:00:20.:00:23.

over the abandoned Newsnight Savile investigation. And this from the

:00:23.:00:27.

top of the corporation. A profound and heart felt apology, on behalf

:00:27.:00:32.

of the BBC, to every victim. Police say there could be more than

:00:32.:00:36.

40 victims, and more than 300 separate lions of inquiry. We will

:00:36.:00:39.

explore whether the BBC has mishandedled the investigation, the

:00:39.:00:44.

aftermath, and the need to get to the truth. We will hear from TV

:00:44.:00:50.

executives, David Elstein and Airey air strikes and the Guardian

:00:50.:00:54.

columnist, Deborah Orr. Also tonight: We are very proud to

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receive the Nobel Prize. He may be very proud, but does award suggest

:00:58.:01:03.

there is little point in satire, or does the long history of the

:01:03.:01:10.

maligned institution help keep the peace on the most bloodthirsty

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connent on earth. We will discuss, connent on earth. We will discuss,

:01:16.:01:21.

Good evening, tonight the BBC has tried to get a grip on the

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spiralling mass of allegations against Jimmy Savile. The new

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director-general, Lord Entwistle, has ordered an investigation into

:01:27.:01:32.

the culture and practices into the BBC when Savile worked here. A

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separate investigation will look into any failings over the handling

:01:35.:01:40.

of the abandoned Newsnight inquiry. It comes as the police reveal 700

:01:41.:01:44.

lines of their inquiries, and put the potential number of victims of

:01:44.:01:49.

Savile at 40. More claims of sexual assault by

:01:49.:01:53.

Sir Jimmy Savile have emerged today. Police are investigating a dozen

:01:53.:02:00.

allegations of abuse. And have revealed that there, at least, 40

:02:00.:02:05.

potential victims. All told detectives are now following 340

:02:05.:02:10.

leads. A director who worked on Jimmy Savile's hit TV show, Jim'll

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Fix It, claimed to have discovered the presenter having sex with a

:02:14.:02:17.

girl in his dressing room. David Nicolson told a newspaper he was

:02:17.:02:23.

laughed at when he raised his concerns. June Thornton, a patient

:02:23.:02:27.

at Leeds General Infirmary, in 1972, said she saw Savile abuse someone

:02:27.:02:31.

she believed was a brain-damaged girl. Miss Thornton said she told a

:02:32.:02:35.

nurse about the incident, but she was ignored.

:02:35.:02:40.

The director-general announced an independent inquiry into a

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Newsnight investigation about Jimmy Savile. That was begun last year,

:02:44.:02:48.

but was never completed, and no report was shown. The editor of the

:02:48.:02:52.

programme decided not to pursue it for editoral reasons. But some

:02:52.:02:58.

members of the Newsnight team disagreed with his decision. After

:02:58.:03:02.

the director-general referred to a "cloud of suspicion" over the

:03:02.:03:04.

Newsnight investigation, he was asked whether the programme's

:03:04.:03:08.

editor, Peter Rippon, should be suspended? No, I don't think it

:03:08.:03:13.

would be appropriate to suspend the Newsnight editor. REPORTER: Why?

:03:13.:03:17.

Because I have confidence in Peter Rippon. He's a very good editor

:03:17.:03:19.

indeed. As I have explained to you. We have spent the last two weeks

:03:19.:03:25.

trying to get people to understand and recognise our account of events.

:03:25.:03:28.

Which I standby. What we are doing now, is we have set up an

:03:28.:03:33.

independent inquiry, because, in the end, accountability,

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transparency, honesty, these are things we want to live by, and be

:03:37.:03:41.

judged by, we recognise that we need that to answer the questions

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that are being asked. REPORTER: Are you confident that in that

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Newsnight film, there was no material relevant useful to the

:03:49.:03:52.

police that the BBC sat on by killing that film. There are

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certainly journalists involved with that who indicate there was

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relevant material, but Peter Rippon said otherwise in his statement?

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These issues, Dan, are exactly I want the independent inquiry to

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look at, I don't want to pre-judge it on anything you have asked me

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there. REPORTER: Yesterday you did say you didn't know the nature of

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the Newsnight allegations when the tribute programmes to Jimmy Savile

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went ahead. Did you know it was an investigation into criminal

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behaviour by Jimmy Savile, an investigation into potential child

:04:26.:04:29.

abuse by Jimmy Savile, an investigation into action on BBC

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Prom sis? What did you know? didn't know any of those things.

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What I knew was Newsnight was looking at Jimmy Savile. That is as

:04:39.:04:43.

much as I was told. I know there is a certain amount of mistcation in

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the press about this -- mystification in the press about

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this. I will explain what is in my mind. I'm a former news editor,

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those investigating the BBC, the independence of the and current

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affairs, the independence of the news division from any potential

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influence from elsewhere in the organisation. The thing uppermost

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in my mind was an absolute determination to ensure that nobody

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should construe anything I had to say or think about this, as a

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matter of any pressure. Helen said to me, we're looking into Jimmy

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Savile. I said, thanks for letting me know, I hope you will keep me

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updated. The BBC is also calling in an independent investigator, to

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examine the culture at the corporation, during the time Savile

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was committing his alleged attacks on children. Also to ensure that

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present safeguards are fit for purpose. I have one thing to repeat,

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that is a profound and heart felt apology on behalf of the BBC to

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every victim. It is the victims, these women who were subject to

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criminal actions, who must be central in our thoughts.

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director-general said the two independent inquiries at the BBC

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will be led by individuals, to be named as soon as possible, who

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command respect for their insight and judgment.

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No-one from the BBC was available to be interviewed tonight. I'm

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joined now by David Elstein, who has held a number of executive

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positions in television, including at Sky and Channel 5. Dawn Airey, a

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former head of Channel 5, now heading the largest independent

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European television company. Has the BBC botched this? It is not

:06:36.:06:40.

unusual for the BBC to be slow off the mark when a crisis hits t and

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to play catch-up for a long time afterwards. We have seen it many

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times. The problem here is the BBC is trying to catch up day by day.

:06:52.:07:01.

Yesterday it announced the Ken McQuarry inquiry, now it has been

:07:01.:07:05.

overtaken by an external inquiry into what has happened. Although

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George Entwistle has announced these two inquiries, the most

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important one is the one he hasn't announced. That is why, when

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Newsnight journalists had assembled, if not broadcast, substantial

:07:18.:07:23.

evidence of sexual molestation by Jimmy Savile, why did the BBC

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blythly proceed to broadcast a series of celebratory programme

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about Savile, even as those interviews hit the cutting room

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floor. Do you accept that, to some people, it looks as if the BBC has,

:07:37.:07:43.

firstly, dragged the feet, and secondly, because of the supposedly

:07:43.:07:45.

celebratory programmes, that there is something to hide there. As Mr

:07:45.:07:49.

Entwistle put it, a cloud of suspicion over what Newsnight was

:07:49.:07:53.

up to and what it did or didn't do? It is farcical to suggest that

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because of the two entertainment programmes that the Newsnight piece

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was sidelined or dropped. George, in your package at the beginning

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gave a very good articulation that is to, yes, he was aware of the

:08:07.:08:11.

fact that Newsnight was looking into Jimmy Savile, and that was it.

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The independence of producers and editors of all News and Current

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Affairs programmes have to remain absolutely paramount. The important

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thing, I think which is what he has just announced, which is two very

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significant forensic and soul- searching inquiries. That is all

:08:29.:08:33.

the BBC can do. It will be interesting to see who is chairing

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both the inquiries. But I think he has done exactly the right thing

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for this moment in time. Where do you sit on this, I think everybody

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has been shocked, day by day it gets worse. We heard Chris Patten

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say it is a cesspit, and it certainly this? There is lots of

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things happening, first of all we shouldn't lose sight of the fact

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that until somebody broke this story, nobody had broken the story.

:09:02.:09:05.

That is not just the BBC. That is a huge powerful media. We have a

:09:05.:09:10.

press, that for a time, seemed able to get any information they liked

:09:10.:09:18.

out of people. A press that was particularly down on paedophilia,

:09:18.:09:24.

supposedly. Had many of them had a look at this? Nobody was able to

:09:24.:09:28.

break this story, Newsnight, the BBC, at least had a go at it, they

:09:29.:09:33.

may have failed at the final hurdle, it is important to be clear on why

:09:33.:09:37.

that happened, but they at least had a go at it. It is a measure of

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how successful this man was as a paedophile, who groomed an entire

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nation, that nobody broke the story before now, at all. Specifically,

:09:49.:09:52.

what do you want to know about the Newsnight investigation, and why it

:09:52.:09:56.

was never run, why nothing actually got on it? Frankly, it is not

:09:57.:10:00.

important. I don't think there is any conspiracy, I don't think there

:10:00.:10:07.

was any pressure put on the editor. He probably took an editoral

:10:07.:10:09.

judgment, he was probably wrong, we will eventually find out and make

:10:10.:10:14.

our own judgment. That is not the issue. The issue is the BBC has

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been landed with huge embarrassment, not just because it didn't

:10:17.:10:22.

broadcast this item, but because it did broadcast a series of

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programmes, which any alert executive would have yanked from

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the schedule, as soon as they heard, Newsnight's investigating Jimmy

:10:31.:10:36.

Savile. All the BBC News outlets were alerted, by the Newsnight team,

:10:36.:10:39.

be abare that there is this investigation going on. I don't

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understand the point that Dawn is making and that George Entwistle

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made, which is you can't ask to see the tape, even if it hasn't been

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broadcast. Of course you see the tape. As soon as you see the tape

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you pull every one of those programmes out of the schedule.

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me go back top Dawn and the wider investigation into the culture of

:10:57.:11:02.

the BBC in the 1970s and 1980s, perhaps it is a reflection of the

:11:02.:11:06.

culture of not just the BBC in that time, what was going on. What do

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you hope they might get to the bottom of there? The 1970s and

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1980s are a completely different world from where we are now. It is

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comparing chalk and cheese, we have become far more moral and open and

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transparent as a society, and witnessing what we are talking

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about this evening. If you go back then, and David knows this as well

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as I do, ITV was a bit like Life on Mars, it was racist, sexist, sexism

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was endemic, and there were things that went on then, to be frank, you

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wouldn't tolerate today. The world has moved on, the world, I think,

:11:44.:11:49.

is a better place. But just, David, to go back to the point you were

:11:49.:11:57.

picking up on earlier, about the Newsnight report. The fact is, it

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didn't stack up, Peter Rippon said he couldn't get the witnesses,

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their statements, just the police couldn't support what was being

:12:06.:12:11.

said. That's why he didn't run the report. That is perfectly

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legitimate as a reason to have dropped it. David made a slightly

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different point, he said the BBC should have been alert to the fact

:12:19.:12:24.

it was going on, even if it didn't stand up. And the key question is

:12:24.:12:29.

why run tributes to the man if there is an investigation going on?

:12:29.:12:32.

Wasn't that a mistake in judgment? We have all had to make the

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judgment call, but there was a time when Jimmy Savile was perceived to

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be a national hero. He quite clearly was an appalling individual.

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Those were two programmes that celebrated a body of work. Whether

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we like it or not, they were broadcast by the BBC. There were

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rumours for decades about him, they weren't substantiated. Do you think

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the culture has changed in the profound way Dawn has said. Some

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may say it is true, but it is a cop out, whatever he did then is wrong

:13:11.:13:16.

then as it is now? The culture has been dragged to where we are now

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kicking and screaming. There are basic things we still need to be

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looking at, that are still wrong with the culture. Certainly, the

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sexual revolution came along, when this story first broke, Michael

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Grade went on television and said there was a lot of groupy culture

:13:37.:13:42.

in light entertainment back then, and there is a lot of groupy

:13:42.:13:47.

culture around now. That idea of groupy culture for successful men

:13:47.:13:51.

still actually survives. People make a big deal about it not being

:13:51.:13:55.

for under-16s or paedophiles, but the idea that grown-up men should

:13:55.:13:58.

award themselves with young women, throwing themselves at them, is

:13:58.:14:03.

still there. And, what's more, a man I was arguing with about this

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earlier today said, well, yes, but what would you do if ten people

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were coming to your door every evening offering sex. I said, I

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would call police. You have this culture, that although when we are

:14:22.:14:27.

in the office we are more civilised. But down in Rochdale young women

:14:27.:14:32.

are being used for sex by men and nobody is listening to them. And on

:14:32.:14:36.

a small scale that is happening again. It can't happen on the grand

:14:36.:14:42.

scale as it did in the 1970s at the heart of the BBC. But the thing is

:14:42.:14:46.

paedophiles shouldn't get into positions of powers and abusing

:14:46.:14:53.

young girls, and nobody listening to them, that has happened recently.

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Congrat layings, as citizens of the European Union -- congratulations,

:14:56.:14:59.

as citizens of the European Union, we share a part in the Nobel Peace

:14:59.:15:04.

Prize, awarded to all of us for the role the EC has for keeping the

:15:04.:15:08.

piece peace on a couldn't nent, where for 100 years has been the

:15:08.:15:14.

scene of kaornish. With a sense of satire, the award comes as Greeks

:15:14.:15:19.

dressed up at Nazis, shouting abuse at Germany's Chancellor, and Europe

:15:19.:15:25.

might be at peace, but not entirely with itself. Nobel Peace Prize Poet

:15:26.:15:29.

Laureates are an interesting bunch. More than 100 individuals and 20

:15:29.:15:34.

organisations have won the prize. Peace has always been a slightly

:15:34.:15:39.

slippery concept. In 1973 Henry Kissinger accepted the prize, while

:15:39.:15:44.

serving as Secretary of State to President Nixon in the Vietnam War.

:15:44.:15:47.

He said the prize symbolised the quest for peace rather than

:15:48.:15:51.

achieving it. In 1976 it went to the founders of the Northern

:15:51.:15:54.

Ireland peace movement, Robert Koren and Betty Williams. The

:15:54.:15:58.

troubles continued for another 20 years. And President Obama was the

:15:58.:16:02.

recipient for his efforts to strengthen international diplomacy,

:16:02.:16:06.

nine months after he took office. He gave away his prize money. Has

:16:06.:16:13.

the EU earned the place in the lirs of winners. Here is Paul Mason, a

:16:13.:16:23.
:16:23.:16:23.

re -- list of winners. Here is Paul Mason, one of the winners. From

:16:23.:16:27.

democracy to the European Union, a gong, pretty big one, the Nobel

:16:27.:16:32.

Peace Prize. The President of Europe, one of three Presidents,

:16:32.:16:36.

accepted the prize graciously. Committee, and in fact, the

:16:36.:16:41.

international community, are now standing -- send ago very important

:16:41.:16:47.

message to Europe, that the European Union is something very

:16:47.:16:52.

precious, that we should cherish, for the good of Europeans and all

:16:53.:16:58.

the world. But, hold on a minute, it is quite hard to reconcile that

:16:58.:17:05.

Europe with this. In southern Europe the financial crisis has

:17:05.:17:10.

become a crisis of state bankruptcy, austerity imposed from Brussels,

:17:10.:17:14.

Berlin and Frankfurt, is tearing Greece apart, and Spain and

:17:14.:17:17.

Portugal are facing social crisis. The idea of taking more and more

:17:17.:17:21.

power to the centre is so at odds with public opinion, not just in

:17:21.:17:24.

Britain, but all over Europe. Interest comes a moment when it

:17:24.:17:28.

becomes unsustainable. It was supposed to make us richer, it

:17:28.:17:32.

hasn't. It was supposed to make us get on better, it hasn't. All the

:17:32.:17:38.

arguments made for the EU originally are false, people have

:17:38.:17:46.

seen through it. It is an ar This is an area of migrants, the actions

:17:46.:17:52.

of a right-wing extremists last year were in the name of defending

:17:52.:18:01.

white Christian Europe. We don't have a real public and federal

:18:01.:18:06.

authority behind the common currency. So, in that way, I think

:18:06.:18:12.

that it is a Nobel Prize that is an encouragement to go further on the

:18:12.:18:16.

part of more European integration. For two years, the political elite

:18:16.:18:21.

of Europe have struggled to impose a solution. The result, riots,

:18:21.:18:26.

racism, radicalism, recession. Now, they think they have found a

:18:26.:18:31.

solution, and it's more Europe. A rapid move to fiscal and political

:18:31.:18:35.

union. But enthusiasm for that, on the streets of Europe, is very

:18:35.:18:41.

patchy. When you are inside the machine of

:18:41.:18:44.

euro Government, it can seem like it is permanent, the states,

:18:44.:18:47.

nationalties, anthems that drove Europe to war in history, are

:18:47.:18:52.

exactly that, just history. But to Europe's critics, what is happening

:18:52.:18:55.

is the revenge of history. nation state through the centuries

:18:55.:19:00.

has been a great vessel for peace and justice and democracy, in a way

:19:00.:19:04.

these great transnational ideaologies, whether facisim or

:19:04.:19:07.

Marxism or fundamentalism have never been. You would compare

:19:07.:19:11.

Europeanism to those? It is obviously not violent, but in the

:19:11.:19:15.

sense that it refuses to recognise the jurisdiction of the nation

:19:15.:19:19.

states that it presumes to be bigger than international law, it

:19:19.:19:23.

make as very dangerous assumption. Europe was always more than an

:19:23.:19:28.

arrangement, from the catwalks of Milan, to the field of a Danish

:19:28.:19:32.

rock festival, you always knew what continent you were in. History will

:19:32.:19:36.

say the EU kept the peace, and removed the causes of totalitarian

:19:36.:19:41.

rule and genocide, and created a vibe. But what next? I'm an

:19:41.:19:45.

optimist by nature, but I predict that, in the next elections, in

:19:45.:19:48.

2014, the next elections for the European Parliament, we could see a

:19:48.:19:56.

win of pro-European forces, federal forces. And yes, and losses for the

:19:56.:20:00.

euro-sceptic party. More and more people are aware of the fact that

:20:00.:20:05.

in a globalised world, it is impossible to defend their

:20:05.:20:12.

interests, with old fashioned nation states. When you win a big

:20:12.:20:16.

award, it is always best to look stunned. But Britain's most pro-

:20:16.:20:21.

European party leader, caught live on air with the news, sounded like

:20:21.:20:25.

he really was. Worthy winner? I hadn't heard that before.

:20:25.:20:33.

made an interesting face. For peace in Europe? Well, he suppose, what

:20:33.:20:41.

do I want to say! Joining me now are three people, who as EU citizen,

:20:41.:20:45.

share in the Nobel Prize glory, Johann Lamont, former Chancellor of

:20:45.:20:47.

the Exchequer, Richard Corbett, a former Labour MP, working for the

:20:48.:20:54.

President of the European channel, and Gillain Tett from the financial

:20:54.:20:57.

-- President of the European Union, and Gillain Tett from the Financial

:20:57.:21:04.

Times. If you look back over the last 50 years or so, without the

:21:04.:21:08.

European Union, it wouldn't have been a safer place? This is an old

:21:08.:21:12.

myth, the idea that France and Germany would have gone to war

:21:12.:21:16.

after the tragedy of the Second World War, implies that Europeans

:21:16.:21:21.

have learned nothing after three wars in 100 years. Lots of things

:21:21.:21:25.

contribute to peace, NATO contributed to it, the movement of

:21:25.:21:28.

tourist, global media, knowing about everyone's different

:21:28.:21:32.

countries. It would be hard to persuade French citizens to fight

:21:32.:21:35.

against Germany today. Do you think the world would be in a better

:21:35.:21:40.

place without the EU? I think you need transnationalisation in the

:21:40.:21:43.

European continent, we have a bureaucracy that is intrusive, and

:21:43.:21:48.

a very interesting point, some years ago a Nobel Prize-winning

:21:48.:21:58.
:21:58.:21:58.

economist, he actually predicted that the eurozone would create more

:21:58.:22:02.

conflict in Europe. Perhaps they ought to take his prize away. The

:22:02.:22:07.

whole thing is laughable, it reminds about the death of Little

:22:07.:22:12.

Nell, from Charles Dickens, you need a heart of stone not to burst

:22:12.:22:17.

out laughing. Are you going to give the prize money to the Greek, they

:22:17.:22:21.

deserve it, for staying so specific in the face of difficult problems

:22:21.:22:28.

they have got? I think two things are being mixed up here. We will

:22:28.:22:31.

still have arguments in Europe, of course. What the EU has done is

:22:31.:22:35.

create a structure where the countries of Europe can have those

:22:35.:22:39.

arguments and are in a some what more civilised way than we have

:22:39.:22:45.

done in centuries. From the fall of the roam empire, until 1945, every

:22:45.:22:49.

-- Roman empire, until 1945, every generation slaughtered each other

:22:49.:22:55.

on the battlefields. We had to do something about it. NATO is a damn

:22:55.:22:59.

sight better than what we had before. There was the point that

:22:59.:23:03.

NATO, and the Germans and the French, you might give it to the

:23:03.:23:10.

Germans for not causing trouble in the second half of the century

:23:10.:23:14.

after whenever. The Germans are first to say that bringing all the

:23:14.:23:18.

countries together, NATO and the EU helps, has been fundamental.

:23:18.:23:23.

Without that, Johann Lamont said, surely they would have learned --

:23:23.:23:27.

Norman Lamont said they surely they would have learned the lessons.

:23:27.:23:30.

They didn't after the First World War, 21 years later it was war

:23:30.:23:36.

again. No attempt of made then to set up a structure, a framework to

:23:36.:23:40.

systematically overcome our differences. Provide a place where

:23:40.:23:44.

we could negotiate and agree. You seem to have got the winnings

:23:44.:23:48.

in your hand? Here is the issue, it is one thing to have a structure

:23:48.:23:53.

and framework, that is useful. Structure and framework doesn't

:23:53.:23:57.

make people's hearts beat faster or get them rallying. It is telling

:23:57.:24:01.

that the prize is awarded to a block, not a person. The clips in

:24:01.:24:05.

the film are all about prizes for people. The reason it has gone to

:24:05.:24:09.

the block is there is no-one who will stand up and own the European

:24:09.:24:13.

Union project who is a hero. If you look at bank notes, it is telling,

:24:13.:24:18.

on the British bank note there is a Queen, a central person, a rallying

:24:18.:24:23.

cry. If you look at the American one, George Washington, Lincoln. On

:24:23.:24:28.

the eurozone bank notes, because there are no people to rally around,

:24:28.:24:33.

you have a bridge and an arch. People don't feel excited about a

:24:33.:24:38.

bridge and arch, than they are to create the same sense of social co-

:24:39.:24:46.

heegs and unity. Is part of the point is that the committee

:24:46.:24:50.

recognise the problems in the EU and they are offering

:24:50.:24:55.

encouragement? The EU is incoherent in foreign policy, some members

:24:56.:25:00.

recognise Kosovo, some don't. Some of them wanted to intervene in the

:25:00.:25:05.

Iraq War, some didn't. There is no consensus about these big questions

:25:05.:25:11.

of peace and war in the EU. Richard Corbett says we disagree but not

:25:11.:25:16.

gone to the war? They claim great credit for what happened in the

:25:16.:25:20.

Balkans. What happened when Srebrenica was bombarded, the Dutch

:25:20.:25:27.

stood by and ask nothing. That is what EU peacekeeping did.

:25:27.:25:30.

Balkans shows precisely what happens to an area outside this

:25:30.:25:37.

structure and framework. What about Srebrenica jo. It was outside, the

:25:37.:25:41.

former Yugoslavia was not inside the EU. If you talk to people in

:25:41.:25:44.

central Europe that is what they value, they are grad low coming

:25:44.:25:48.

into the area of stability, to -- gradually coming into the area of

:25:48.:25:53.

stability, to make sure it doesn't happen again. To get your society

:25:53.:25:57.

to buy into it, to make the sacrifices, in a country like

:25:57.:26:00.

Germany, to support the European project, is hard without the

:26:00.:26:04.

central dream. Wouldn't you accept, a that in your lifetime, the EU has

:26:04.:26:11.

encouraged countries like Greece, Portugal and Spain, fascists states,

:26:11.:26:17.

to become democracies, and be more friendly with neighbours? The EU

:26:17.:26:20.

gave support with a framework where there was none. Franco ended his

:26:20.:26:25.

rule because he died, not because the EU was there, he passed away in

:26:25.:26:28.

the middle of the night. That is how democracy came to Spain. He

:26:29.:26:33.

made preparation for a constitutional monarchy. What has

:26:33.:26:37.

happened with the Nobel Prize committee, this they couldn't think

:26:37.:26:42.

of anyone to give the prize so. They came up with a tired, weary

:26:42.:26:45.

old idea. It is just as ridiculous to give it to President Obama after

:26:45.:26:50.

being in the White House for one minute. It seems bizarre in a week

:26:51.:26:56.

where seven thousand police are on the streets so Angela Merkel can

:26:56.:27:00.

visit Athens. Doesn't that strike you as very, very odd? Of course

:27:01.:27:04.

there will be disagreements about particular policies, and economic

:27:04.:27:10.

policies, and what should be done. That is natural in any politic cap

:27:11.:27:15.

structure. People dressed as Nazis on the street? We have pretty big

:27:15.:27:20.

rows in the UK, why not in the European level. Look also at Greece,

:27:20.:27:25.

without the largest-ever loan given in international history to a

:27:25.:27:29.

country. Greece would be in a far, far worse situation. That loan was

:27:29.:27:34.

given by eurozone partners, there is both a degree of solidarity and

:27:34.:27:39.

discipline involved in this situation, difficult as it was.

:27:39.:27:42.

strategy tragedy is what the Nobel Peace Prize is recognising that it

:27:42.:27:47.

was a dream to heal the wound of World War II. The sad thing is the

:27:47.:27:51.

European project threatens to reopen them. That is ironic

:27:51.:27:57.

timing.Le Look what the Greeks are saying

:27:57.:28:01.

about them? I don't think the difficulties in Greece will lead to

:28:01.:28:11.
:28:11.:28:11.

war. One party and some people in Greece are saying that. That is not

:28:11.:28:17.

the prevailing view. To say that we are going to reopen the conflicts

:28:17.:28:21.

to the Second World War, it is a completely different scale. It is a

:28:21.:28:25.

completely different order of magnitude, and thank goodness it is

:28:25.:28:29.

a different order of magnitude, and a large part that have is thanks to

:28:29.:28:33.

having had the countries of Europe, come together, build up over 06

:28:33.:28:37.

years, a structure in which we can work together. We will leave it

:28:37.:28:40.

there, and look forward to Greece getting the money you have just

:28:40.:28:46.

been awarded by the Nobel Committee. Let's have a look at the front

:28:46.:28:56.
:28:56.:29:34.

Now, after three decades at BBC Television Centre, with a stint at

:29:34.:29:37.

Lime Grove down the road, this is Newsnight's last programme from

:29:37.:29:41.

this stud hey. From Monday we will be broadcast -- studio, from Monday,

:29:41.:29:45.

we will be broadcasting in high-def vision from Broadcasting House,

:29:45.:29:49.

where Kirsty is now. We are doing some fine tune to go our new studio,

:29:49.:29:53.

getting ready for the move. We will be broadcasting live, from here at

:29:53.:29:57.

10.30 on Monday night. Tonight you can say good night Gavin. I will

:29:57.:30:01.

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