Browse content similar to 19/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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resign, but insists he never used resign, but insists he never used | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
the words "pleb pleb" or" more ran". Why did the row drag itself out for | :00:22. | :00:28. | |
another month until he finally quit. They weren't the exact words he | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
used, but accusations that chimed with the worst stereotypes of the | :00:32. | :00:38. | |
modern Tory toff. There are those who praise and bury Andrew Mitchell | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
with us. The Savile affair, a criminal | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
investigation, with accusations against living people. The police | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
claim there are 200 potential victim, and potential prosecutions | :00:49. | :00:55. | |
to come of the He's possibly going to be be one of the prolific | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
exoffenders that the NSPCC has come across, he spans five decades. | :01:01. | :01:11. | |
:01:11. | :01:20. | ||
man who was Children's Minister "dear David" read the letter. It is | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
with enormous regret that he was write to go resign as Chief Whip, | :01:26. | :01:32. | |
were the words of Andrew Mitchell, after resigning, some would he say, | :01:32. | :01:38. | |
eventually, he said he never used the word "pleb" or more ran", in | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
the altercation outside Downing Street. Why did the resignation | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
come now, of the toxic "pleb" word, ever used now. How damaging has the | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
episode been to David Cameron. Our political editor is can us now. | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
This has already proved quite devisive? Behind the scenes there | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
are many people who think he was handed out by a campaign wrought by | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
the police. It wasn't as simple as what he said or didn't say, that he | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
was framed. But they were intent on getting his scalp. By David Cameron | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
letting him go, that David Cameron is weakened in that battle which | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
will go on and on. Equally there are loads who think it went on far | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
too long. This is a man who goes around Westminster, saying he would | :02:17. | :02:23. | |
like to be known as a big swinging dick. He's an incredibly bomb | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
bastic individual. It rang too true for a lot of MPs who were facing | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
this man being their Chief Whip, he was going to be disciplining them, | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
they weren't that keen about it. When he was caught saying what he | :02:34. | :02:44. | |
:02:44. | :02:45. | ||
said, it rang too true. For 28 days and nights, the | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
pressure rained down on Andrew Mitchell. This time a week ago, it | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
looked like he had weathered the storm, but a week really is an | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
eternity in political life. Last Friday night David Cameron had just | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
delivered a conference speech that sent his people awhich with a | :03:02. | :03:08. | |
spring in their step. Since then we have had a storm with the energy | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
bills, completely of the Prime Minister's own making. Now we have | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
the resignation of the man supposed to be the enforcer. Losing his grip, | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
he was left just clasping his hands, the first Prime Minister's | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
Questions of the autumn, was always going to be the test. Here Mitchell | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
was the butt of both jokes and jabs, perhaps nearing the bottom of | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
despair. It was said he had lost a stone in weight, and it looked like | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
he had. They say that I practice class war, and they go around | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
calling people "plebs", can you believe it? I know individuals at | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
the top of Government and inside Downing Street, who have been | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
frustrated at the amount of time it has taken for Andrew Mitchell to | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
resign. They believed his tenacious clinging on to power was harming | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
the Prime Minister. For his part over the last week and the return | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
to parliament, the Chief Whip was also assessing the damage to his | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
own career. Too many people have told him, at all levels of the | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
party, that he cannot hope to do a job that ask people to vote in a | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
particular way, they may not agree with, and do so for the good of the | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
party, when he has done so much to damage that party. In short, he was | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
told, he couldn't hold a role of authority when he had lost so much | :04:14. | :04:20. | |
of it. Today in his resignation letter to | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
the Prime Minister, Andrew Mitchell reiterated his finely-worded | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
defence, that he didn't call the police pleb, but he did swear at | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
them. The tone is this, that he was going, but not for what he did, but | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
because he couldn't recover from what he did. | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
Do you know who that guy is? particular problem for the | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
Government was brought out by this focus group, conducted by the BBC's | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
Sunday Politics, Mitchell's problem was made clear. Which of those | :04:46. | :04:56. | |
:04:56. | :04:56. | ||
three is the most insulting? Number two. It is just the one word? | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
"place", earn your place. He has been marked by everyone, you know | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
your place, and he knows his, which won't be in our's. Despite this, | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
there is anger among Andrew Mitchell's former colleagues, that | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
he is lost by a politically motivated campaign by the police, | :05:15. | :05:23. | |
angered by cuts to the force. # He's either a little Blairite | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
# Or else a modern Conservative Speculation continues tonight that | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
Mitchell might choose to stand down from his constituency, a plum seat | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
being eyed up by many. But for now, he's left Government, taking with | :05:37. | :05:45. | |
him his unique mix of pomp and pomposity. | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
You mentioned the wider question of David Cameron's Government now, | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
does he look en feebleed by this? If you look at opinion polls, they | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
have struggled and still a linger problem for them. Every time they | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
have a good moment, like David Cameron's good speech last night, | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
they come back and go to an old narrative, which they try to | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
correct and don't seem to do so. -- succeed in doing so. As the Prime | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
Minister suggests that he didn't help himself with an energy policy, | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
it needed 48 hours before he could say something. Then tonight. In and | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
of themselves these are not killer blows, the problem is when the two | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
start to reinforce each other, you have the terrible word, the | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
omnishambles, I hate it, it is cliched. You have the continuing | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
problem of incompetence, mixed with the perception that these guys are | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
out-of-touch. It is our old friend, can you be heartless, you can | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
appear to have a lifestyle and a background and privilege that is | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
different from lots of people, but if you are not very good at what | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
you do, if you are hopeless, that is when it becomes a problem. We | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
have been talking about that on this programme for months, we are | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
still there. With me now in the studio is Labour's Mary Creagh, we | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
hop to be joined in Birmingham by the Conservative MP, Jacob Rees- | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
Mogg, and we are joined from Bristol by the former Chief | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
Constable of Gloucestershire, Tim Brain. You welcome the resignation, | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
Labour has welcomed the resignation tonight, do you think that it's | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
right that one mistake can end, what, 30 years of good public | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
service? Well, I think it's right that Andrew Mitchell has resigned, | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
and I think he should have resigned four weeks ago when this incident | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
occurred. I think the problem for the Prime Minister now is that he | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
now looks weak, and as was said, it is about the nature and competence | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
of this Government. These damaging rows are piling up one after the | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
other. The whole issue of entightment, of a Government that | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
is out-of-touch, of -- entitlement, of a Government out-of-touch, of | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
tax breaks for millionaire, one rule for those at the top and | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
another for those at the bottom. fits Labour's narrative, the out- | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
of-touch delete. You have heard Andrew Mitchell insist today he | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
didn't use the words he's accused of using. Are you happy to abide by | :08:08. | :08:14. | |
the other side of the story, the police's version? In his | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
resignation letter he says what he said, why did it take four weeks to | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
come out and say what he said. He says which swear word he uses, in | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
that resignation letter. The question is, which is more damaging | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
for the Conservatives, to use the "pleb" word or the F-word, it was | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
the fleb-word that did for him. Are you -- Pleb-word that did for | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
him. Are you totally happy accepting the police version of | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
events here? No, what we are seeing here a man who was an embarrassment, | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
who became a laughing stock, and who failed to tough it out at the | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
political party conference a couple of weeks ago. From that moment on | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
wards, it had nothing to do with what he said or didn't say or what | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
the police thought, it was all about Westminster politics. Has | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
left it about three weeks too late before he could say he went with | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
honour. Jacob Rees-Mogg, I think you have | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
joined us now, you heard Mary Creagh, perhaps. Basically this | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
confirms the narrative of the posh Tories, doesn't it, we have had, if | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
we needed further proof, George Osborne in the wrong first-class | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
carriage on the train tonight? is an exceptionally silly way of | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
looking at it. Train tickets are so confusing, anybody could get into | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
the wrong carriage. On what Mr Mitchell did or didn't say, he has | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
made it clear that he didn't use the most contentious words. In any | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
confrontation, people have different views of what was said. | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
It's perfectly reasonable to take Mr Mitchell's view of it. Do you | :09:42. | :09:49. | |
find it odd that he's being replaced with a man who said "the | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
homeless are people you step over when you come out of the opera", | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
from Sir Tony Young? I think you can dig up from every politician's | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
past a quotation that sounds unfortunate. Sir Tony Young is a | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
civilised figure, a very capable leader of the house, and admired -- | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
leader of the House, and admired Transport Secretary that will do a | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
great job. Would people be wrong to assume that the Tories are out-of- | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
touch, and let's face it, a bit posh? I don't think the Tories are | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
out-of-touch, if you look at the figures on the deficit which came | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
out, they are better, what is really in touch is making sure that | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
the economy works and people's taxes can come down, and the | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
economy can begin to grow again. That is what Government is about. | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
Not about little arguments at the gates of Ten Downing Street. That | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
is trivialising it. Little arguments that can be blown into a | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
class warfare narrative if it suits your purpose? Jacob Rees-Mogg says | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
the man charged with the economy going back on track, can't tell the | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
difference between a first class chancellor carriage on the train. | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
That speaks volumes for the Chancellor and desperation of the | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
Conservative Party this evening. A Chancellor trying to blag his way | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
into first class, without paying the �160 upgrade. Again, one rule | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
for the people at the top, another rule for the rest of us. I don't | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
think this has been blown out of proportion, I think the Prime | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
Minister's handling of it has been terrible, he's looked weak, he is | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
weak, and piling up one shambles after another, does the Government, | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
and the country, no favours at all. Jacob Rees-Mogg, what are we to | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
make by the insistence by Andrew Mitchell that he didn't use any of | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
the words levelled at him? I think you can have two different versions | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
of an event, but I do think we need to ask questions, whilst the | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
Leveson Inquiry is still going on, as to how these files were leaked | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
from the police. The conversation, first of all, and then the actual | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
police officers' log. We have seen enough trouble from the police | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
leaking manufacture, and the scandals involving News | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
International, I hope that the Metropolitan Police will look very | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
carefully at what has happened, how it has happened, and will try to | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
ensure such leaks don't happen again. Dr Brain what do you make of | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
those leaks? I think they should be looked at. But I think, of course, | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
this is a desperate tactic on the part of the Conservative Party and | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
the Government, to try to deflect away from the fact that this has | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
been a big embarrassment for them. And it brings into light the | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
general feeling that police officers have about this Government, | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
that they don't really sympathise with policing, they are not | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
interested in their concerns and frankly, they have it in for them. | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
This all seems to just Summers up that. The attempt to distract won't | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
work. When you -- Just sum that up. The attempt to distract won't work. | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
Does this have a ring of vendetta to it, with the pay freeze and the | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
job cuts in the police? It is not just that there is a pay freeze or | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
jobs cut, that can be accepted. Some of the leadership of the | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
Conservative Party shows little short of contempt for policing. | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
That is summed up in this incident. It is very interesting, this is the | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
first time when Tom Watson rather seemed to love what the Sun was | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
publishing, when it was a leak of what the Chief Whip had said? | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
Andrew Mitchell is not the victim, he's the man in charge of order and | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
discipline across the parliamentary Conservative Party, and who | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
couldn't impose his own order and discipline on himself, when faced | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
with a police officer who wouldn't open the gates for him at Downing | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
Street. If someone had sworn at a police officer in any of our town | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
centre, our constituents would rightly be outraged, as we would be. | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
This is the man in charge of order and discipline, he didn't have the | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
self-control to behave properly to a police officer. This is hugely | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
exaggerated, somebody lost his temper, frankly, big deal, all | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
sorts of people lose their temper in their daily lives. It is part of | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
human nature. To blow this up into a resignation issue, has been very | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
unfortunate, and trivialises politics, when there are many | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
important things going on. In relation to the police, | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
particularly, who do have difficult negotiations on their pensions, for | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
which I feel great sympathy for them. I think they are very | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
difficult. You would never have sworn at a police officer in that | :14:09. | :14:15. | |
manner, would you Jacob Rees-Mogg? Miss Maitlis, I don't think I have | :14:15. | :14:21. | |
sworn in my adult life. Leaving aside the par gones of virtue, most | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
of us do -- paragones of virtue, most of us do let a swear word out. | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
This is the man in charge of order and discipline in the party, and | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
these police officers are guarding number 11 and Number Ten Downing | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
Street, one of the highest - security areas in the country. | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
Thank you very much. This resignation comes at the end | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
of a week where the Government has made all the wrong kind of | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
headlines, and boy we know how that feels. From confusion over energy | :14:48. | :14:54. | |
policy, dubbed the "combishambles", suggestions of a U-turn on the | :14:54. | :15:03. | |
badger cull, let's call that the omnivore shambles, and the | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
Chancellor going into the wrong carriage, that goes to be the The | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
Great Train Snobbery. We have the man who broke the Sun story and | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
Peter Oborn of the Telegraph, what should we make of the timing of | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
this. We had this story of how he had to wait for David Cameron to | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
get back from a summit, as if it had been a six-month trip, why did | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
it come now? It is like a bedroom farce of in a country house, et | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
cetera. There is a conspiracy theory this afternoon that people | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
were trying to bring on, the George Osborne fiasco on the train, with | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
Andrew Mitchell's sudden resignation, to link them. It is | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
not too much to say that George Osborne was going to be the front | :15:48. | :15:55. | |
splash under the headline The Great Train Snobbery, until the Mitchell | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
resignation came in. It is a conspiracy theory, the way it was | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
written, Mitchell said he wanted today see him today. It didn't work | :16:03. | :16:10. | |
like that. Unfortunate low, the day has created, the sort of utter mess | :16:10. | :16:20. | |
:16:20. | :16:21. | ||
that makes the -- The Thick Of It look tame, reality it worse. This | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
is David Cameron's reshuffle and the new beginning, but is it really, | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
do things like this have a lasting effect? There is an issue of | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
competence in the Government. By the way, basically the 1922 | :16:35. | :16:37. | |
Committee meeting, the meeting of the Conservative Party earlier this | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
week, that's what did for Mitchell, because it was basically made plain | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
there that he didn't have the confidence of the parliamentary | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
party. And a mutiny of the whips? You had a whips office revolt from. | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
That moment on, Andrew Mitchell was finished. Does that tell you that | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
they now have more power than David Cameron does, the right of the | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
party is actually telling him what to do now? No. Certainly, I think | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
the Prime Minister has a problem. He called it wrong after the Sun's | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
original story, he should have, he would have been right to have | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
sacked Mitchell at once. It is unacceptable that a cabinet | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
minister insults a policeman and swears using the F-word at the | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
policeman. You can't have that. The Prime Minister called it wrong, no | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
new information, new damning information emerged, that enabled | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
the Prime Minister to reconsider the issue. What happened of that | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
there was a revolt against his judgment. So he has been humiliated | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
in this, yeah. We have heard both politicians say you can have two | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
versions of events. When the story came to you, was it very clear. | :17:42. | :17:48. | |
Were the officers very clear of what language had been used? | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
Crystal clear, not only did we take one source's view on it, it is a | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
hugely serious allegation, usually defamery if you got it wrong. We | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
have three different sources which the time we went to print. | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
Including passers by, including people who weren't in the police? | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
If you don't mind I won't go into the precise sources. We were 100% | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
sure that was precisely what the police had told their bosses what | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
Mitchell had said to them. In the Leveson Inquiry do you feel odd | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
about getting leaks from the police? Not at all, we have had in | :18:24. | :18:31. | |
the last few week, from Conservative MPs, and and the | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
lovely Jacob Rees-Mogg, utterly the wrong person to come on Newsnight | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
tonight and saying the Tory Party feel their humble pain. The | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
messenger is always shot when people don't like what we are | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
saying. There are a fair share of Eatonians in the Sun, or in the | :18:48. | :18:54. | |
Tony Blair -- Etonians at the Sun or in jobs replacing each other, is | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
that a narrative that is continuing to damage David Cameron? | :18:59. | :19:06. | |
definitely think it was part of the reason why Mitchell had to go. As | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
Mary Creagh was impressive about, there is one law for these | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
Conservative Party ministers, and another for voters. It is important | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
to point out in the defence of the Conservatives that new Labour was | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
far worse than this. Again and again ministers were doing things | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
that were utterly unacceptable. Think of David Blunkett, all of | :19:23. | :19:28. | |
them, almost, Tony Blair himself, again and again they would do, and | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
be guilty of behaviour which would have sent an ordinary citizen to | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
jail. And they seemed to get away with it. It is worth rembering, or | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
certainly got them sacked or disgraced, and yet they just | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
carried on in office. Let's remember that this hypocrisy, this | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
difference between the way politicians behave, and what they | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
say, is not just a Conservative thing. But the plays particularly | :19:50. | :19:56. | |
dangerously to the Conservative thing, because the because of the | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
issues. Do you think they were particularly harsh on this, a lot | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
of countries would say it is not so much to ask that your politicians | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
should be asked to sit in a quiet first class carriage, without the | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
whole world erupting into class war? There is a difference between | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
the individual instance, such as Mitchell having a rant at a copper, | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
or Osborne walking into a first class carriage when he meant to sit | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
in standard. Why those apparently small things are massively damaging | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
for the Government, for our reader, or decent, normal working people, | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
is because of the stereotype they project. Exactly what Allegra has | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
been saying, people do feel you have a bunch of toffs in the | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
cabinet who went to Eton, and I didn't, despite the appalling | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
accusation you made there. People don't think they feel their pain | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
and what they are going through, any small incident that might | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
reveal the real image behind the politician trying to tell you the | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
nice things, is very damaging indeed, and right for us to pursue. | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
The investigation into Jimmy Savile has now become a criminal inquiry, | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
Scotland Yard has revealed they will be looking into allegationing | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
concerning living figures, as well as the deceased star. They | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
identified more than 200 possible victim, detectives have refused to | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
give a figure for the number of people under investigation, said to | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
be a handful. And said they are dealing with abuse on an | :21:18. | :21:25. | |
unprecedented scale. It started with one single | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
allegation. Now the Jimmy Savile investigation has reached, what | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
Scotland Yard is calling, a staggering scale. Officers are | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
pursuing 400 separate leads in this complex case. 200 victims have now | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
come forward, up from 60, just a few days ago. The investigation is | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
now officially a criminal one. And for the first time, police have | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
confirmed they are dealing with accusations of abuse involving | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
other living people connected to Savile, including, it's thought, | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
other celebrities. The whole Savile investigation does now seem to be | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
moving with some speed. One former senior police officer with | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
knowledge of the investigation, told Newsnight, he expects to see | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
suspects questioned and even arrested quickly, perhaps within | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
days. But Operation Yewtree, as it is known, is likely to take at | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
least six months in total. It is understood that officers working on | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
the case originally expected it to be wrapped up in 30 days, but it is | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
now much more complex. Looking into hundreds of possible crime, | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
committed decades ago. This former detective works on dozens of sex | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
abuse cases. The point is quite clear, for recent events, | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
recollection will be fresh in victims' minds, it might have been | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
reported straight away, there might be forensic evidence, CCTV evidence, | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
all those sorts of things, but we won't have that here, it is | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
historic, the police have to do the best they can, rely on people's | :22:55. | :23:02. | |
memories, they have to trawl for withins, that sort of thing. Today | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
the NSPCC said, this is fast becoming the worst campaign of | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
sexual abuse the charity has ever had to deal with. Yet, it received | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
only one complaint about the star back in 2008, before the latest | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
allegations surfaced. He is quite possibly going to be | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
one of the most prolific sexual predator, certainly we at the NSPCC | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
have come across. It spans five decades. At the moment we are | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
talking about over 200 victims, I suspect that number will go up. | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
What is happening, the more the story develop, more people are | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
coming forward and feeling confident enough to say this | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
happened to me. The criminal case might be the most significant | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
development so far in this scandal, but there are now half-a-dozen | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
separate inquiries under way, into his alleged abuse. The hospital | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
where Savile worked, Stoke Mandeville, Leeds and Broadmoor, | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
have started their own. The Department of Health has opened a | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
separate inquirey, the BBC is quarrying out three other reviews. | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
The BBC confirmed today it will broadcast a Panorama investigation | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
into Jimmy Savile on Monday. The corporation has also been given the | :24:11. | :24:17. | |
go ahead by the police, to start the own formal inquiry into the | :24:17. | :24:19. | |
culture at Television Centre at the time Savile was employed there. It | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
is understood that inquiry will start work immediately. | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
Jimmy Savile may be dead and gone, the focus is now on other abusers. | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
The people who might have helped hip, and the institutions that | :24:32. | :24:41. | |
might have turned a blind eye. What are the implications now this | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
has become a criminal inquiry, and how wide is the net of abuse. | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
Joining me is the former Children's Minister. What would be your | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
response to that news tonight. This is a live criminal investigation, | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
what do you understand by how big this could get? I think it is going | :24:58. | :25:04. | |
to get bigger. I'm afraid these news reports coming out daily have | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
almost made us immune to it. Clearly, as the NSPCC have said | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
today, a prolific abuser of children, but the worry is how much | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
further will it go. Are there other people involved? The police are | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
suggesting there are, these are people still alive and charges can | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
be brought against them. Have you any knowledge of how many people | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
they are looking in to now? All we have heard today is there are over | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
200 victims who have come to the police. The NSPCC have taken | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
hundreds of calls and referred 138 people to the police as well. I | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
fear we have only seen the tip of the iceberg, we are only dealing | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
with the BBC at the moment. This is a wake-up call for all sorts of | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
institutions who regularly deal with children and young people and | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
performance, independent television and so on, to absolutely thoroughly | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
look at their set-up, and check that they have got a robust plan to | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
make sure this sort of abuse is not happening under their watch too. | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
You say this is a wake-up call, how can so many institutions, and I | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
count the BBC amongst those, failed to pick up on what was happening | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
for so long? That is the exorder wry thing, so many different report | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
-- extraordinary thing, so many different reports, so many people | :26:13. | :26:19. | |
saying I heard the rumour, and I had a constituent saying was back | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
in Stoke Mandeville in the 1980s and said they knew all about it. | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
Nobody came forward then and was able to make it stick, it was the | :26:27. | :26:36. | |
sort of "it's Jimmy" attitude. This is not just a caper, it is serious | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
offence against children, and a serious crime, and absolutely | :26:40. | :26:46. | |
should be prosecuted. The wrapper of celebrity did make it easier. Do | :26:46. | :26:52. | |
you sense that showbiz still has that insulation? I think there is a | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
complacency of celebrity, we have seen that in the revelations of the | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
BBC. It is also if a teenage girl is found in the dressing room of a | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
football star or whatever, there is nudge, nudge, wink, wink. We have | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
to look at ourselves in society, where girls who have been the | :27:09. | :27:16. | |
subject of abuse, the Rochdale cases and the child exploitation we | :27:16. | :27:22. | |
have seen, or caught with celebrities, that a 14, 15-year-old | :27:22. | :27:32. | |
girl used for sexual gratification with older men, can be accused of | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
grat fying -- allowing that to happen. The celebrity status that | :27:38. | :27:45. | |
allows you groupies hanging outside the dressing room, how is that? | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
When I launched the Government's child exploitation strategy, in | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
response to the Rochdale cases and things like that, I warned that we | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. That this was happening | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
all over the country and all racial backgrounds, what we are now seeing, | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
and I didn't imagine a year on, that we would be talking about | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
celebrities. You talked about a constituent member talking to you, | :28:10. | :28:17. | |
it never came up before? We are all shocked by the Pakistani male gang | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
revelations, and the political correctness allowing them to hide | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
behind those cultural sensitivites, we have seen it in the church, a | :28:26. | :28:32. | |
culture of fear where people didn't come forward, we are now seeing a | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
complacency of celebrity status as well. Wer we also are seeing | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
regulations around child -- we are also seeing the regulations on | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
child performances, I wanted to change them. They are out of date | :28:43. | :28:49. | |
going back to the 60s and before I want that to be changed. I was | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
unable to persuade our Secretary of State to put it in the children's | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
bill. I will take it forward as a private member's bill, and hope the | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
Government will support it. So a change to children who are | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
performers? It is very bureaucratic. Lots of children involved in | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
performances, and concerts, a lot of bureaucratic legislation is | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
there that isn't followed, we need something proportionate and safe. | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
So children, who are generally vulnerable to people who do ill by | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
them, can be assured they are being locked after. We need to bring it | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
into the 21st century. Tomorrow's papers in just a second, | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
first a look at the London Film Festival on the review show. We | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
have come to the capital to sample a selection from the BFI London | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
film festle value, we have the story of Belfast Godfather of Punk, | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
an adaptation of Salman Rushdie's supposedly unfilmable novel, | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
Midnight's Children, and the latest of the master of the macarbre, Tim | :29:46. | :29:52. | |
Burton, all that and Tori Amos live in the studio. Let's just whip | :29:52. | :30:02. | |
:30:02. | :30:04. | ||
through the papers. Forgive the pun. Mitchell on his bike, and something | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
about the US elections tracking technology. The front of the | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
Independent, Newsnight e-mail accusing the BBC of a cover-up, it | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
says they were warned that broadcasters had misleading | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
statements about the Savile documentary. And police get their | :30:20. | :30:27. | |
man as Mitchell quits at last. And this look at Malali, who was shot | :30:27. | :30:33. | |
by the Taliban, now on her feet and making a recovery. The scratch | :30:33. | :30:37. |