19/10/2012 Newsnight


19/10/2012

The chief whip finally resigns over plebgate after a month's delay. And the police launch a full criminal investigation of the Jimmy Savile scandal. With Emily Maitlis.


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resign, but insists he never used resign, but insists he never used

:00:18.:00:22.

the words "pleb pleb" or" more ran". Why did the row drag itself out for

:00:22.:00:28.

another month until he finally quit. They weren't the exact words he

:00:28.:00:32.

used, but accusations that chimed with the worst stereotypes of the

:00:32.:00:38.

modern Tory toff. There are those who praise and bury Andrew Mitchell

:00:38.:00:42.

with us. The Savile affair, a criminal

:00:42.:00:46.

investigation, with accusations against living people. The police

:00:46.:00:49.

claim there are 200 potential victim, and potential prosecutions

:00:49.:00:55.

to come of the He's possibly going to be be one of the prolific

:00:55.:01:01.

exoffenders that the NSPCC has come across, he spans five decades.

:01:01.:01:11.
:01:11.:01:20.

man who was Children's Minister "dear David" read the letter. It is

:01:20.:01:26.

with enormous regret that he was write to go resign as Chief Whip,

:01:26.:01:32.

were the words of Andrew Mitchell, after resigning, some would he say,

:01:32.:01:38.

eventually, he said he never used the word "pleb" or more ran", in

:01:38.:01:41.

the altercation outside Downing Street. Why did the resignation

:01:41.:01:46.

come now, of the toxic "pleb" word, ever used now. How damaging has the

:01:46.:01:51.

episode been to David Cameron. Our political editor is can us now.

:01:51.:01:54.

This has already proved quite devisive? Behind the scenes there

:01:54.:01:59.

are many people who think he was handed out by a campaign wrought by

:01:59.:02:02.

the police. It wasn't as simple as what he said or didn't say, that he

:02:02.:02:06.

was framed. But they were intent on getting his scalp. By David Cameron

:02:06.:02:09.

letting him go, that David Cameron is weakened in that battle which

:02:09.:02:13.

will go on and on. Equally there are loads who think it went on far

:02:13.:02:16.

too long. This is a man who goes around Westminster, saying he would

:02:17.:02:23.

like to be known as a big swinging dick. He's an incredibly bomb

:02:23.:02:27.

bastic individual. It rang too true for a lot of MPs who were facing

:02:27.:02:30.

this man being their Chief Whip, he was going to be disciplining them,

:02:30.:02:34.

they weren't that keen about it. When he was caught saying what he

:02:34.:02:44.
:02:44.:02:45.

said, it rang too true. For 28 days and nights, the

:02:45.:02:49.

pressure rained down on Andrew Mitchell. This time a week ago, it

:02:49.:02:54.

looked like he had weathered the storm, but a week really is an

:02:54.:02:58.

eternity in political life. Last Friday night David Cameron had just

:02:58.:03:02.

delivered a conference speech that sent his people awhich with a

:03:02.:03:08.

spring in their step. Since then we have had a storm with the energy

:03:08.:03:12.

bills, completely of the Prime Minister's own making. Now we have

:03:13.:03:17.

the resignation of the man supposed to be the enforcer. Losing his grip,

:03:17.:03:21.

he was left just clasping his hands, the first Prime Minister's

:03:21.:03:24.

Questions of the autumn, was always going to be the test. Here Mitchell

:03:24.:03:28.

was the butt of both jokes and jabs, perhaps nearing the bottom of

:03:28.:03:31.

despair. It was said he had lost a stone in weight, and it looked like

:03:31.:03:36.

he had. They say that I practice class war, and they go around

:03:36.:03:40.

calling people "plebs", can you believe it? I know individuals at

:03:40.:03:43.

the top of Government and inside Downing Street, who have been

:03:44.:03:48.

frustrated at the amount of time it has taken for Andrew Mitchell to

:03:48.:03:52.

resign. They believed his tenacious clinging on to power was harming

:03:52.:03:54.

the Prime Minister. For his part over the last week and the return

:03:54.:03:57.

to parliament, the Chief Whip was also assessing the damage to his

:03:57.:04:00.

own career. Too many people have told him, at all levels of the

:04:00.:04:04.

party, that he cannot hope to do a job that ask people to vote in a

:04:04.:04:07.

particular way, they may not agree with, and do so for the good of the

:04:07.:04:11.

party, when he has done so much to damage that party. In short, he was

:04:11.:04:14.

told, he couldn't hold a role of authority when he had lost so much

:04:14.:04:20.

of it. Today in his resignation letter to

:04:20.:04:25.

the Prime Minister, Andrew Mitchell reiterated his finely-worded

:04:25.:04:29.

defence, that he didn't call the police pleb, but he did swear at

:04:29.:04:32.

them. The tone is this, that he was going, but not for what he did, but

:04:32.:04:35.

because he couldn't recover from what he did.

:04:35.:04:38.

Do you know who that guy is? particular problem for the

:04:38.:04:43.

Government was brought out by this focus group, conducted by the BBC's

:04:43.:04:46.

Sunday Politics, Mitchell's problem was made clear. Which of those

:04:46.:04:56.
:04:56.:04:56.

three is the most insulting? Number two. It is just the one word?

:04:56.:05:02.

"place", earn your place. He has been marked by everyone, you know

:05:02.:05:07.

your place, and he knows his, which won't be in our's. Despite this,

:05:07.:05:10.

there is anger among Andrew Mitchell's former colleagues, that

:05:10.:05:15.

he is lost by a politically motivated campaign by the police,

:05:15.:05:23.

angered by cuts to the force. # He's either a little Blairite

:05:23.:05:29.

# Or else a modern Conservative Speculation continues tonight that

:05:29.:05:33.

Mitchell might choose to stand down from his constituency, a plum seat

:05:33.:05:37.

being eyed up by many. But for now, he's left Government, taking with

:05:37.:05:45.

him his unique mix of pomp and pomposity.

:05:45.:05:50.

You mentioned the wider question of David Cameron's Government now,

:05:50.:05:56.

does he look en feebleed by this? If you look at opinion polls, they

:05:56.:06:01.

have struggled and still a linger problem for them. Every time they

:06:01.:06:04.

have a good moment, like David Cameron's good speech last night,

:06:04.:06:07.

they come back and go to an old narrative, which they try to

:06:08.:06:12.

correct and don't seem to do so. -- succeed in doing so. As the Prime

:06:12.:06:17.

Minister suggests that he didn't help himself with an energy policy,

:06:17.:06:21.

it needed 48 hours before he could say something. Then tonight. In and

:06:21.:06:25.

of themselves these are not killer blows, the problem is when the two

:06:25.:06:30.

start to reinforce each other, you have the terrible word, the

:06:30.:06:34.

omnishambles, I hate it, it is cliched. You have the continuing

:06:34.:06:39.

problem of incompetence, mixed with the perception that these guys are

:06:39.:06:43.

out-of-touch. It is our old friend, can you be heartless, you can

:06:43.:06:45.

appear to have a lifestyle and a background and privilege that is

:06:45.:06:48.

different from lots of people, but if you are not very good at what

:06:48.:06:51.

you do, if you are hopeless, that is when it becomes a problem. We

:06:51.:06:54.

have been talking about that on this programme for months, we are

:06:55.:07:00.

still there. With me now in the studio is Labour's Mary Creagh, we

:07:00.:07:04.

hop to be joined in Birmingham by the Conservative MP, Jacob Rees-

:07:04.:07:10.

Mogg, and we are joined from Bristol by the former Chief

:07:10.:07:14.

Constable of Gloucestershire, Tim Brain. You welcome the resignation,

:07:14.:07:18.

Labour has welcomed the resignation tonight, do you think that it's

:07:18.:07:21.

right that one mistake can end, what, 30 years of good public

:07:21.:07:25.

service? Well, I think it's right that Andrew Mitchell has resigned,

:07:25.:07:30.

and I think he should have resigned four weeks ago when this incident

:07:30.:07:34.

occurred. I think the problem for the Prime Minister now is that he

:07:34.:07:38.

now looks weak, and as was said, it is about the nature and competence

:07:38.:07:42.

of this Government. These damaging rows are piling up one after the

:07:42.:07:47.

other. The whole issue of entightment, of a Government that

:07:47.:07:51.

is out-of-touch, of -- entitlement, of a Government out-of-touch, of

:07:51.:07:55.

tax breaks for millionaire, one rule for those at the top and

:07:55.:08:00.

another for those at the bottom. fits Labour's narrative, the out-

:08:00.:08:02.

of-touch delete. You have heard Andrew Mitchell insist today he

:08:02.:08:08.

didn't use the words he's accused of using. Are you happy to abide by

:08:08.:08:14.

the other side of the story, the police's version? In his

:08:14.:08:17.

resignation letter he says what he said, why did it take four weeks to

:08:17.:08:22.

come out and say what he said. He says which swear word he uses, in

:08:22.:08:25.

that resignation letter. The question is, which is more damaging

:08:25.:08:31.

for the Conservatives, to use the "pleb" word or the F-word, it was

:08:31.:08:37.

the fleb-word that did for him. Are you -- Pleb-word that did for

:08:37.:08:40.

him. Are you totally happy accepting the police version of

:08:40.:08:44.

events here? No, what we are seeing here a man who was an embarrassment,

:08:44.:08:49.

who became a laughing stock, and who failed to tough it out at the

:08:49.:08:53.

political party conference a couple of weeks ago. From that moment on

:08:53.:08:57.

wards, it had nothing to do with what he said or didn't say or what

:08:57.:08:59.

the police thought, it was all about Westminster politics. Has

:08:59.:09:03.

left it about three weeks too late before he could say he went with

:09:03.:09:06.

honour. Jacob Rees-Mogg, I think you have

:09:06.:09:10.

joined us now, you heard Mary Creagh, perhaps. Basically this

:09:10.:09:14.

confirms the narrative of the posh Tories, doesn't it, we have had, if

:09:14.:09:17.

we needed further proof, George Osborne in the wrong first-class

:09:17.:09:21.

carriage on the train tonight? is an exceptionally silly way of

:09:21.:09:26.

looking at it. Train tickets are so confusing, anybody could get into

:09:26.:09:30.

the wrong carriage. On what Mr Mitchell did or didn't say, he has

:09:30.:09:35.

made it clear that he didn't use the most contentious words. In any

:09:35.:09:38.

confrontation, people have different views of what was said.

:09:38.:09:42.

It's perfectly reasonable to take Mr Mitchell's view of it. Do you

:09:42.:09:49.

find it odd that he's being replaced with a man who said "the

:09:49.:09:54.

homeless are people you step over when you come out of the opera",

:09:54.:09:59.

from Sir Tony Young? I think you can dig up from every politician's

:09:59.:10:03.

past a quotation that sounds unfortunate. Sir Tony Young is a

:10:03.:10:08.

civilised figure, a very capable leader of the house, and admired --

:10:08.:10:12.

leader of the House, and admired Transport Secretary that will do a

:10:12.:10:15.

great job. Would people be wrong to assume that the Tories are out-of-

:10:15.:10:19.

touch, and let's face it, a bit posh? I don't think the Tories are

:10:19.:10:23.

out-of-touch, if you look at the figures on the deficit which came

:10:23.:10:25.

out, they are better, what is really in touch is making sure that

:10:25.:10:28.

the economy works and people's taxes can come down, and the

:10:28.:10:32.

economy can begin to grow again. That is what Government is about.

:10:32.:10:37.

Not about little arguments at the gates of Ten Downing Street. That

:10:37.:10:41.

is trivialising it. Little arguments that can be blown into a

:10:41.:10:46.

class warfare narrative if it suits your purpose? Jacob Rees-Mogg says

:10:46.:10:50.

the man charged with the economy going back on track, can't tell the

:10:50.:10:53.

difference between a first class chancellor carriage on the train.

:10:53.:10:56.

That speaks volumes for the Chancellor and desperation of the

:10:56.:11:00.

Conservative Party this evening. A Chancellor trying to blag his way

:11:00.:11:04.

into first class, without paying the �160 upgrade. Again, one rule

:11:04.:11:07.

for the people at the top, another rule for the rest of us. I don't

:11:07.:11:10.

think this has been blown out of proportion, I think the Prime

:11:10.:11:13.

Minister's handling of it has been terrible, he's looked weak, he is

:11:13.:11:18.

weak, and piling up one shambles after another, does the Government,

:11:18.:11:24.

and the country, no favours at all. Jacob Rees-Mogg, what are we to

:11:24.:11:26.

make by the insistence by Andrew Mitchell that he didn't use any of

:11:26.:11:31.

the words levelled at him? I think you can have two different versions

:11:31.:11:36.

of an event, but I do think we need to ask questions, whilst the

:11:36.:11:39.

Leveson Inquiry is still going on, as to how these files were leaked

:11:39.:11:45.

from the police. The conversation, first of all, and then the actual

:11:45.:11:49.

police officers' log. We have seen enough trouble from the police

:11:49.:11:51.

leaking manufacture, and the scandals involving News

:11:51.:11:54.

International, I hope that the Metropolitan Police will look very

:11:54.:11:58.

carefully at what has happened, how it has happened, and will try to

:11:58.:12:03.

ensure such leaks don't happen again. Dr Brain what do you make of

:12:03.:12:07.

those leaks? I think they should be looked at. But I think, of course,

:12:07.:12:11.

this is a desperate tactic on the part of the Conservative Party and

:12:11.:12:15.

the Government, to try to deflect away from the fact that this has

:12:15.:12:20.

been a big embarrassment for them. And it brings into light the

:12:20.:12:24.

general feeling that police officers have about this Government,

:12:24.:12:27.

that they don't really sympathise with policing, they are not

:12:27.:12:29.

interested in their concerns and frankly, they have it in for them.

:12:29.:12:34.

This all seems to just Summers up that. The attempt to distract won't

:12:34.:12:40.

work. When you -- Just sum that up. The attempt to distract won't work.

:12:40.:12:45.

Does this have a ring of vendetta to it, with the pay freeze and the

:12:45.:12:51.

job cuts in the police? It is not just that there is a pay freeze or

:12:51.:12:55.

jobs cut, that can be accepted. Some of the leadership of the

:12:55.:12:58.

Conservative Party shows little short of contempt for policing.

:12:58.:13:03.

That is summed up in this incident. It is very interesting, this is the

:13:03.:13:08.

first time when Tom Watson rather seemed to love what the Sun was

:13:08.:13:13.

publishing, when it was a leak of what the Chief Whip had said?

:13:13.:13:16.

Andrew Mitchell is not the victim, he's the man in charge of order and

:13:16.:13:19.

discipline across the parliamentary Conservative Party, and who

:13:19.:13:23.

couldn't impose his own order and discipline on himself, when faced

:13:23.:13:26.

with a police officer who wouldn't open the gates for him at Downing

:13:26.:13:30.

Street. If someone had sworn at a police officer in any of our town

:13:30.:13:34.

centre, our constituents would rightly be outraged, as we would be.

:13:34.:13:38.

This is the man in charge of order and discipline, he didn't have the

:13:38.:13:43.

self-control to behave properly to a police officer. This is hugely

:13:43.:13:46.

exaggerated, somebody lost his temper, frankly, big deal, all

:13:46.:13:50.

sorts of people lose their temper in their daily lives. It is part of

:13:50.:13:54.

human nature. To blow this up into a resignation issue, has been very

:13:54.:13:56.

unfortunate, and trivialises politics, when there are many

:13:56.:13:59.

important things going on. In relation to the police,

:13:59.:14:03.

particularly, who do have difficult negotiations on their pensions, for

:14:03.:14:06.

which I feel great sympathy for them. I think they are very

:14:06.:14:09.

difficult. You would never have sworn at a police officer in that

:14:09.:14:15.

manner, would you Jacob Rees-Mogg? Miss Maitlis, I don't think I have

:14:15.:14:21.

sworn in my adult life. Leaving aside the par gones of virtue, most

:14:21.:14:26.

of us do -- paragones of virtue, most of us do let a swear word out.

:14:26.:14:30.

This is the man in charge of order and discipline in the party, and

:14:30.:14:33.

these police officers are guarding number 11 and Number Ten Downing

:14:33.:14:36.

Street, one of the highest - security areas in the country.

:14:36.:14:41.

Thank you very much. This resignation comes at the end

:14:41.:14:45.

of a week where the Government has made all the wrong kind of

:14:45.:14:48.

headlines, and boy we know how that feels. From confusion over energy

:14:48.:14:54.

policy, dubbed the "combishambles", suggestions of a U-turn on the

:14:54.:15:03.

badger cull, let's call that the omnivore shambles, and the

:15:03.:15:09.

Chancellor going into the wrong carriage, that goes to be the The

:15:09.:15:13.

Great Train Snobbery. We have the man who broke the Sun story and

:15:13.:15:17.

Peter Oborn of the Telegraph, what should we make of the timing of

:15:17.:15:21.

this. We had this story of how he had to wait for David Cameron to

:15:21.:15:25.

get back from a summit, as if it had been a six-month trip, why did

:15:25.:15:31.

it come now? It is like a bedroom farce of in a country house, et

:15:31.:15:34.

cetera. There is a conspiracy theory this afternoon that people

:15:34.:15:40.

were trying to bring on, the George Osborne fiasco on the train, with

:15:40.:15:43.

Andrew Mitchell's sudden resignation, to link them. It is

:15:43.:15:48.

not too much to say that George Osborne was going to be the front

:15:48.:15:55.

splash under the headline The Great Train Snobbery, until the Mitchell

:15:55.:16:00.

resignation came in. It is a conspiracy theory, the way it was

:16:00.:16:03.

written, Mitchell said he wanted today see him today. It didn't work

:16:03.:16:10.

like that. Unfortunate low, the day has created, the sort of utter mess

:16:10.:16:20.
:16:20.:16:21.

that makes the -- The Thick Of It look tame, reality it worse. This

:16:21.:16:25.

is David Cameron's reshuffle and the new beginning, but is it really,

:16:25.:16:30.

do things like this have a lasting effect? There is an issue of

:16:30.:16:35.

competence in the Government. By the way, basically the 1922

:16:35.:16:37.

Committee meeting, the meeting of the Conservative Party earlier this

:16:38.:16:42.

week, that's what did for Mitchell, because it was basically made plain

:16:42.:16:45.

there that he didn't have the confidence of the parliamentary

:16:45.:16:50.

party. And a mutiny of the whips? You had a whips office revolt from.

:16:50.:16:54.

That moment on, Andrew Mitchell was finished. Does that tell you that

:16:54.:16:57.

they now have more power than David Cameron does, the right of the

:16:57.:17:02.

party is actually telling him what to do now? No. Certainly, I think

:17:02.:17:07.

the Prime Minister has a problem. He called it wrong after the Sun's

:17:07.:17:11.

original story, he should have, he would have been right to have

:17:11.:17:16.

sacked Mitchell at once. It is unacceptable that a cabinet

:17:16.:17:21.

minister insults a policeman and swears using the F-word at the

:17:21.:17:25.

policeman. You can't have that. The Prime Minister called it wrong, no

:17:25.:17:28.

new information, new damning information emerged, that enabled

:17:28.:17:31.

the Prime Minister to reconsider the issue. What happened of that

:17:31.:17:35.

there was a revolt against his judgment. So he has been humiliated

:17:35.:17:39.

in this, yeah. We have heard both politicians say you can have two

:17:39.:17:42.

versions of events. When the story came to you, was it very clear.

:17:42.:17:48.

Were the officers very clear of what language had been used?

:17:48.:17:53.

Crystal clear, not only did we take one source's view on it, it is a

:17:53.:17:58.

hugely serious allegation, usually defamery if you got it wrong. We

:17:58.:18:02.

have three different sources which the time we went to print.

:18:02.:18:05.

Including passers by, including people who weren't in the police?

:18:06.:18:11.

If you don't mind I won't go into the precise sources. We were 100%

:18:11.:18:15.

sure that was precisely what the police had told their bosses what

:18:15.:18:19.

Mitchell had said to them. In the Leveson Inquiry do you feel odd

:18:19.:18:24.

about getting leaks from the police? Not at all, we have had in

:18:24.:18:31.

the last few week, from Conservative MPs, and and the

:18:31.:18:35.

lovely Jacob Rees-Mogg, utterly the wrong person to come on Newsnight

:18:35.:18:39.

tonight and saying the Tory Party feel their humble pain. The

:18:39.:18:43.

messenger is always shot when people don't like what we are

:18:43.:18:48.

saying. There are a fair share of Eatonians in the Sun, or in the

:18:48.:18:54.

Tony Blair -- Etonians at the Sun or in jobs replacing each other, is

:18:54.:18:59.

that a narrative that is continuing to damage David Cameron?

:18:59.:19:06.

definitely think it was part of the reason why Mitchell had to go. As

:19:06.:19:09.

Mary Creagh was impressive about, there is one law for these

:19:09.:19:13.

Conservative Party ministers, and another for voters. It is important

:19:13.:19:16.

to point out in the defence of the Conservatives that new Labour was

:19:16.:19:20.

far worse than this. Again and again ministers were doing things

:19:20.:19:23.

that were utterly unacceptable. Think of David Blunkett, all of

:19:23.:19:28.

them, almost, Tony Blair himself, again and again they would do, and

:19:28.:19:31.

be guilty of behaviour which would have sent an ordinary citizen to

:19:31.:19:35.

jail. And they seemed to get away with it. It is worth rembering, or

:19:35.:19:38.

certainly got them sacked or disgraced, and yet they just

:19:38.:19:43.

carried on in office. Let's remember that this hypocrisy, this

:19:43.:19:45.

difference between the way politicians behave, and what they

:19:45.:19:50.

say, is not just a Conservative thing. But the plays particularly

:19:50.:19:56.

dangerously to the Conservative thing, because the because of the

:19:56.:19:58.

issues. Do you think they were particularly harsh on this, a lot

:19:58.:20:01.

of countries would say it is not so much to ask that your politicians

:20:01.:20:06.

should be asked to sit in a quiet first class carriage, without the

:20:06.:20:09.

whole world erupting into class war? There is a difference between

:20:09.:20:13.

the individual instance, such as Mitchell having a rant at a copper,

:20:13.:20:18.

or Osborne walking into a first class carriage when he meant to sit

:20:19.:20:21.

in standard. Why those apparently small things are massively damaging

:20:21.:20:26.

for the Government, for our reader, or decent, normal working people,

:20:26.:20:30.

is because of the stereotype they project. Exactly what Allegra has

:20:30.:20:35.

been saying, people do feel you have a bunch of toffs in the

:20:35.:20:39.

cabinet who went to Eton, and I didn't, despite the appalling

:20:39.:20:43.

accusation you made there. People don't think they feel their pain

:20:43.:20:47.

and what they are going through, any small incident that might

:20:47.:20:51.

reveal the real image behind the politician trying to tell you the

:20:51.:20:56.

nice things, is very damaging indeed, and right for us to pursue.

:20:56.:20:59.

The investigation into Jimmy Savile has now become a criminal inquiry,

:20:59.:21:03.

Scotland Yard has revealed they will be looking into allegationing

:21:03.:21:07.

concerning living figures, as well as the deceased star. They

:21:07.:21:11.

identified more than 200 possible victim, detectives have refused to

:21:11.:21:14.

give a figure for the number of people under investigation, said to

:21:15.:21:18.

be a handful. And said they are dealing with abuse on an

:21:18.:21:25.

unprecedented scale. It started with one single

:21:25.:21:27.

allegation. Now the Jimmy Savile investigation has reached, what

:21:27.:21:32.

Scotland Yard is calling, a staggering scale. Officers are

:21:32.:21:37.

pursuing 400 separate leads in this complex case. 200 victims have now

:21:37.:21:42.

come forward, up from 60, just a few days ago. The investigation is

:21:42.:21:46.

now officially a criminal one. And for the first time, police have

:21:46.:21:50.

confirmed they are dealing with accusations of abuse involving

:21:50.:21:55.

other living people connected to Savile, including, it's thought,

:21:55.:21:59.

other celebrities. The whole Savile investigation does now seem to be

:21:59.:22:02.

moving with some speed. One former senior police officer with

:22:03.:22:08.

knowledge of the investigation, told Newsnight, he expects to see

:22:08.:22:11.

suspects questioned and even arrested quickly, perhaps within

:22:11.:22:17.

days. But Operation Yewtree, as it is known, is likely to take at

:22:17.:22:20.

least six months in total. It is understood that officers working on

:22:20.:22:24.

the case originally expected it to be wrapped up in 30 days, but it is

:22:24.:22:29.

now much more complex. Looking into hundreds of possible crime,

:22:29.:22:34.

committed decades ago. This former detective works on dozens of sex

:22:34.:22:38.

abuse cases. The point is quite clear, for recent events,

:22:38.:22:42.

recollection will be fresh in victims' minds, it might have been

:22:42.:22:46.

reported straight away, there might be forensic evidence, CCTV evidence,

:22:46.:22:51.

all those sorts of things, but we won't have that here, it is

:22:51.:22:55.

historic, the police have to do the best they can, rely on people's

:22:55.:23:02.

memories, they have to trawl for withins, that sort of thing. Today

:23:03.:23:07.

the NSPCC said, this is fast becoming the worst campaign of

:23:07.:23:11.

sexual abuse the charity has ever had to deal with. Yet, it received

:23:11.:23:16.

only one complaint about the star back in 2008, before the latest

:23:16.:23:21.

allegations surfaced. He is quite possibly going to be

:23:21.:23:26.

one of the most prolific sexual predator, certainly we at the NSPCC

:23:26.:23:30.

have come across. It spans five decades. At the moment we are

:23:30.:23:33.

talking about over 200 victims, I suspect that number will go up.

:23:33.:23:36.

What is happening, the more the story develop, more people are

:23:36.:23:39.

coming forward and feeling confident enough to say this

:23:39.:23:42.

happened to me. The criminal case might be the most significant

:23:42.:23:46.

development so far in this scandal, but there are now half-a-dozen

:23:46.:23:50.

separate inquiries under way, into his alleged abuse. The hospital

:23:50.:23:54.

where Savile worked, Stoke Mandeville, Leeds and Broadmoor,

:23:54.:23:58.

have started their own. The Department of Health has opened a

:23:58.:24:03.

separate inquirey, the BBC is quarrying out three other reviews.

:24:03.:24:07.

The BBC confirmed today it will broadcast a Panorama investigation

:24:07.:24:11.

into Jimmy Savile on Monday. The corporation has also been given the

:24:11.:24:17.

go ahead by the police, to start the own formal inquiry into the

:24:17.:24:19.

culture at Television Centre at the time Savile was employed there. It

:24:19.:24:25.

is understood that inquiry will start work immediately.

:24:25.:24:29.

Jimmy Savile may be dead and gone, the focus is now on other abusers.

:24:29.:24:32.

The people who might have helped hip, and the institutions that

:24:32.:24:41.

might have turned a blind eye. What are the implications now this

:24:41.:24:45.

has become a criminal inquiry, and how wide is the net of abuse.

:24:45.:24:50.

Joining me is the former Children's Minister. What would be your

:24:50.:24:54.

response to that news tonight. This is a live criminal investigation,

:24:54.:24:58.

what do you understand by how big this could get? I think it is going

:24:58.:25:04.

to get bigger. I'm afraid these news reports coming out daily have

:25:04.:25:08.

almost made us immune to it. Clearly, as the NSPCC have said

:25:08.:25:12.

today, a prolific abuser of children, but the worry is how much

:25:12.:25:15.

further will it go. Are there other people involved? The police are

:25:15.:25:18.

suggesting there are, these are people still alive and charges can

:25:18.:25:22.

be brought against them. Have you any knowledge of how many people

:25:22.:25:27.

they are looking in to now? All we have heard today is there are over

:25:27.:25:31.

200 victims who have come to the police. The NSPCC have taken

:25:31.:25:34.

hundreds of calls and referred 138 people to the police as well. I

:25:34.:25:38.

fear we have only seen the tip of the iceberg, we are only dealing

:25:38.:25:42.

with the BBC at the moment. This is a wake-up call for all sorts of

:25:42.:25:45.

institutions who regularly deal with children and young people and

:25:45.:25:49.

performance, independent television and so on, to absolutely thoroughly

:25:49.:25:53.

look at their set-up, and check that they have got a robust plan to

:25:53.:25:57.

make sure this sort of abuse is not happening under their watch too.

:25:57.:26:02.

You say this is a wake-up call, how can so many institutions, and I

:26:02.:26:06.

count the BBC amongst those, failed to pick up on what was happening

:26:06.:26:10.

for so long? That is the exorder wry thing, so many different report

:26:10.:26:13.

-- extraordinary thing, so many different reports, so many people

:26:13.:26:19.

saying I heard the rumour, and I had a constituent saying was back

:26:19.:26:22.

in Stoke Mandeville in the 1980s and said they knew all about it.

:26:22.:26:27.

Nobody came forward then and was able to make it stick, it was the

:26:27.:26:36.

sort of "it's Jimmy" attitude. This is not just a caper, it is serious

:26:36.:26:40.

offence against children, and a serious crime, and absolutely

:26:40.:26:46.

should be prosecuted. The wrapper of celebrity did make it easier. Do

:26:46.:26:52.

you sense that showbiz still has that insulation? I think there is a

:26:52.:26:57.

complacency of celebrity, we have seen that in the revelations of the

:26:57.:27:01.

BBC. It is also if a teenage girl is found in the dressing room of a

:27:01.:27:06.

football star or whatever, there is nudge, nudge, wink, wink. We have

:27:06.:27:09.

to look at ourselves in society, where girls who have been the

:27:09.:27:16.

subject of abuse, the Rochdale cases and the child exploitation we

:27:16.:27:22.

have seen, or caught with celebrities, that a 14, 15-year-old

:27:22.:27:32.

girl used for sexual gratification with older men, can be accused of

:27:32.:27:38.

grat fying -- allowing that to happen. The celebrity status that

:27:38.:27:45.

allows you groupies hanging outside the dressing room, how is that?

:27:45.:27:50.

When I launched the Government's child exploitation strategy, in

:27:50.:27:54.

response to the Rochdale cases and things like that, I warned that we

:27:54.:27:58.

are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. That this was happening

:27:58.:28:03.

all over the country and all racial backgrounds, what we are now seeing,

:28:03.:28:08.

and I didn't imagine a year on, that we would be talking about

:28:08.:28:10.

celebrities. You talked about a constituent member talking to you,

:28:10.:28:17.

it never came up before? We are all shocked by the Pakistani male gang

:28:17.:28:22.

revelations, and the political correctness allowing them to hide

:28:22.:28:26.

behind those cultural sensitivites, we have seen it in the church, a

:28:26.:28:32.

culture of fear where people didn't come forward, we are now seeing a

:28:32.:28:37.

complacency of celebrity status as well. Wer we also are seeing

:28:37.:28:41.

regulations around child -- we are also seeing the regulations on

:28:41.:28:43.

child performances, I wanted to change them. They are out of date

:28:43.:28:49.

going back to the 60s and before I want that to be changed. I was

:28:49.:28:52.

unable to persuade our Secretary of State to put it in the children's

:28:52.:28:56.

bill. I will take it forward as a private member's bill, and hope the

:28:56.:29:00.

Government will support it. So a change to children who are

:29:00.:29:04.

performers? It is very bureaucratic. Lots of children involved in

:29:04.:29:08.

performances, and concerts, a lot of bureaucratic legislation is

:29:08.:29:11.

there that isn't followed, we need something proportionate and safe.

:29:11.:29:15.

So children, who are generally vulnerable to people who do ill by

:29:15.:29:19.

them, can be assured they are being locked after. We need to bring it

:29:19.:29:24.

into the 21st century. Tomorrow's papers in just a second,

:29:24.:29:28.

first a look at the London Film Festival on the review show. We

:29:28.:29:32.

have come to the capital to sample a selection from the BFI London

:29:32.:29:36.

film festle value, we have the story of Belfast Godfather of Punk,

:29:36.:29:40.

an adaptation of Salman Rushdie's supposedly unfilmable novel,

:29:40.:29:46.

Midnight's Children, and the latest of the master of the macarbre, Tim

:29:46.:29:52.

Burton, all that and Tori Amos live in the studio. Let's just whip

:29:52.:30:02.
:30:02.:30:04.

through the papers. Forgive the pun. Mitchell on his bike, and something

:30:05.:30:09.

about the US elections tracking technology. The front of the

:30:09.:30:14.

Independent, Newsnight e-mail accusing the BBC of a cover-up, it

:30:14.:30:17.

says they were warned that broadcasters had misleading

:30:17.:30:20.

statements about the Savile documentary. And police get their

:30:20.:30:27.

man as Mitchell quits at last. And this look at Malali, who was shot

:30:27.:30:33.

by the Taliban, now on her feet and making a recovery. The scratch

:30:33.:30:37.