15/11/2012 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines, with Kirsty Wark.

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The Congress is over, the new man's in place, now the world's watching


for China's next move. But do the Chinese themselves have any great


expectations of their new President. On the streets we found


indifference to the new leader, and the party knows it faces dangerous


levels of mistrust. Each of our guests knows China


intimately, is there any certainty about what happens now?


Tilting at windmill, is the great drive for on shore energy about to


hit the doldrums. A Conservative MP take on his Lib Dem colleague and


rival over the need to recommit to renewables.


Also tonight, doesn't this drive you crazy, it is a menace, it is


harassment, and it is everywhere. We will tell you why the PPI claims


business is growing, and why Good evening. The man who will lead


the most populist country in the world was confirmed in post today.


Xi Jinping, and his committee of six, will be in charge of one


billion souls for the next decade, all of whom have big economic


expectation. Whether bigger wealth, healthcare or pensions, many also


desire more personal and political freedom. What will his rule look


like? Less corrupt? Expansionist? Will growth stutter? Will social


media become an unstoppable engine of change? We will discuss all this


and more in a moment. First, Paul Mason witnessed the Changing of the


Guard. Kirsty, hello from the first


freezing cold and foggy dawn of the Xi Jinping era.


What do we know about him? He's the son of a revolutionary leader, he


has strong links with the military. He has run three provinces in China


the size of small European countries, and run them well. And


he does not speak like a "speak your weight" machine. What else do


we know? The obvious signals are that the party has been given. He


has been given simultaneous control both of the party and mill


treatment we will not get one of those torturous handovers from one


generation to the next that we had ten years ago. The small


commitmenty that runs the party has been cut -- committee that runs the


party has been cut from nine to seven. From that party there is a


near majority of conservatives, so, there is clearly a change. There is


a change of guard. We also saw him become slightly emotional in his


speech. He really gave a speech, rather than a report.


In terms of setting the tone, even as he was speaking, live to the


Chinese people, the strapline underneath him on state TV was


saying, the country faces serious challenges. If we have been focused


on this leadership handover, what we may have underplayed, and what


is most significant, is the outgoing leaders, and the in coming


leaders, are now talking openly about the party's crisis of


legitimacy. The international unites the human


race, goes the anthem. One sixth of the human race is governed from


this hall, by a party determined to cling to power, and to go on


playing the old tunes. Hi, thank you.


Resolution of the 18th Congress of the Communist Party. On the report


of the central committee. Thanks. At this session, they are amending


the party constitution, the man on the left, Hu Jintao, is having his


own personal theory added to the theory of his predecessor, Jiang


Zemin, on the right. I have tagged along with party member, Mr Woo, a


press reporter, to find out what it means. What is important to your


readers about all of this? We are very concerned about the transition


of power, who is going to be in the leadership. Not really too much


about what's in the constitution. It is theory, these are too


abstract. But the readers want to know who is who? Who the next


person? Definitely. The man in the middle Xi Jinping,


is the in coming leader, he will have to represent between business


and the new elite, and the needs of workers, and peasants and the


middle-class. The real mystery in this Congress is still, why is the


old guard leader, Zemin right, front and centre for the party. Is


he there to symbolise stability, while the new leadership pursues


rapid change. Or is he there, on the contrary, to signal that there


won't be any rapid change. You would like to think that 25 people


in the leadership of this party of 60 million know the answer, but


maybe, nobody knows. With the conference over, the real


decision making is about to begin. The party carefully recruits from


all over China, workers, the middle-class, the ethnic minorities.


As the delegates disperse, behind the scenes they are picking the


seven-man team that will lead China, that is where the struggle is going


Meanwhile, all over Beijing, the old guard is out. Volunteer


security people, many of them elderly. Tran If we find any kind


of -- TRANSLATION: If we find any kind of situation, any special


situation, we can give the local leaders a call straight away, and


the police or someone will come. Even here, they are aware the party


has to deliver more than it has done.


TRANSLATION: I'm concerned about housing, ordinary people's


livelihoods, our salaries, pensions and social order, these are the


things that I pay attention to. Here, this street is peaceful, in


fact, this street is called "peace and quiet avenue". What I'm really


worried about is rent. It is very difficult for us to rent a home.


What matters now is the make up of the standing committee that runs


the party. On a street corner, under a big screen, it is not


exactly masses of people who have come out to see who has been chosen.


Eventually, to a hall full of international journalists, the new


seven-man committee emerges. Xi Jinping will become President, the


next man, Peng Liyuan, will be the PM. There is only one from the old


regime, and three are hardliners. This is the equivalent of a


presidential election in a country- times bigger than the United States.


It has only -- five-times bigger than the United States. It has only


happened twice in the modern history of this country. The


reaction on the streets is...You could say, not ecstatic. Eventually


we found some people who were interested. What do you think of


the election of Xi Jinping to be leader of China? I think he will do


his good job too. For economic or something like that. To help China


get stronger. What is the number one thing you want him to do?


think maybe increase our salaries! What's the number one problem you


want them to address? TRANSLATION: I feel the main problem is the


civil administration. Another think Qishan, what's his name, needs to


solve is the problem of Taiwan and the problems of the disputed


islands. TRANSLATION: I like him, he's good


for the country, life goes on. is the short translation.


To them, and 1.4 billion like them, the new leader had this message.


TRANSLATION: Under the new conditions, our party face many


severe challenges. There are also many proseing problems within the


party that need to be he -- pressing problems within the party


that need to be resolved. Corruption, being divorced from the


people, going through formalities and butter oxism. The party knows


bureaucracyism. The party knows it could harm economic growth and


strangle innovation. It knows growth will have to come from more


consumption and a richer middle- class. It knows behind the apathy,


there is discontent. TRANSLATION: In the past year the


Chinese leaders are all reading one book, the book on the French


Revolution. People are worried China will have a revolution, we


don't want that. For this new leadership, they have just one


choice, that is reform. Otherwise they and China will be in big


trouble. What should they concentrate on,


politics or economics? TRANSLATION: Politics, of course. In economics,


the space for further growth is already very limited. Actually, the


Chinese people are already quite rich. What we need to solve now are


the political problems. ordinary people, who have had no


say in the outcome of this week, it is a case of dodging and weaving,


surviving. They will wait and see what a new set of people in power


can bring. We have been joined by Paul Mason


now. That independent scholar saying


there is only one choice and that is reform. How can that be


reconciled with a conservative committee of seven? We're in the


presence of experts, we soon will be. My take on the seven are, three


clear conservatives, three neutral technocrat, and one remnant of the


liberal social welfare faction of Hu Jintao. That will be the new PM,


if we take that at a starting point, that is at odds with urban China


and young China is feeling. If it is a result of the way the party


has genuinely picked its leadership, we don't know, it probably means


the party is at odds with the way urban China feels. You could tell


from that package, they know that, but their reflex is to respond with


more control. Of the two big leaders who are being announced on


the front pages of the local newspaper today in Beijing, one is


the discipline guy. But they are going to have to address things


quickly. The corruption issue is not an abstract one, Muhammad Ali


will be dealt with and put on -- Bolshi Li, will have to be dealt


with and put on trial. They will have to get a foreign policy, the


dispute of China with the islands is playing out on the streets. They


will have to respond to that. talked about young China, is that


where the pressure is coming from, you spoke to two young women who


didn't seem to care less about what was happening. Is your sense that


they are the predominant area for change, that will be from the young


Chinese? We have had the chance to speak to lot of young people,


actually, while we have been here. And I think this is how it strikes


me. Three years ago, when I was here, did it matter that you


weren't on Facebook and Twitter and Tumblr, and your iPhone suddenly


gets switched off when the Congress starts, and you can't search on


Google for the term "18th Congress", it didn't feel like that. It feels


like now that China is adrift from a global conversation. That matters,


not just about democracy, but for business, for the business of doing


life in the 21st century. It does feel a little bit locked, and the


youth feel very locked into their own discussion on their equivalent


of Twitter, I would bow, that is a -- weibo, that is abuzz with


Sarkism, criticism and concern about national issues. You heard


the liberal intellectual in my piece talk about Alexis De


Tockville and the book about the French Revolution. On the eve of


the French parliament, the author said, "gentlemen, can't you feel


the earthquakes coming", that was on the eve of the French Revolution.


They have nobody to say anything for them here, they have nobody to


say anything whatsoever in their public discourse. With me here now


Are my guests. From New York I'm joined by a


former Tiananmen Square student leader, Chinese democracy activist


and dissident in exile. And from Beijing by the author, Jonathan


Fenby.Ed goo evening. First of all, -- good evening, first of all what


do you think the main desires are the people, you have family at home,


what are their desires? My family, I have brothers, and my mother,


they are two generations, and then I have my nephews and cousins. So


they actually have changed quite gradually in terms of their quality


of life. Their major concern is to get better education, and maybe get


a secure job, with a good salary. So the desire today is very


different from ten, 20 years ago, from the earlier generation.


that quite a big pressure, we heard from the older women in the film


saying they want houses they could rent, healthcare, pensions. They


are not prosaic demand, but they are very straight forward, they


don't seem to be related to essential freedoms? I think they


are different layers of a desire. You have to have enough food to eat


and clothe. In Chinese it is large ly that, this is contributed by Xi


Jinping's reform, this is a Chinese miracle. Today we are talking about


people moving in a different stage, a called well off society with a


better life. Then you have equality. That is now a problem, the


Government have to ease off. You are talking about free -- freedom


of speech and democracy. That is a higher level of requirement.


Where you sit in New York, you are one of the Tiananmen Square leaders,


this idea of this pressure building, do you think it comes, first of all,


from the idea that people want a better lifestyle, and a better


chance in society, rather than overt political requirement? These


are interlinked, people do want a better life, always. And then I


agree with the Professor, people often want humble, minimal things.


But these things and the political rights are closely tied together.


My family, my desire, or my desire of my parents, they want to see me.


We haven't seen each other for 23 years. I'm not changing the topic


from a National Congress into my family PD business. I'm talking


about China is conducting this kind of behaviour, Chinese regime


conducting this kind of behaviour, which is unheard in a western


democracy. This is the political fact. That has a very direct impact


to people's humble, minimum desires. And people must remember, for all


its sophistication, and all its economic interaction, that people


like you can't go home the Chinese artist, Wei Wei, is under house


arrest. This is all part of Chinese life. You were there ten days a


Isabel Hilton, when we talk now about the need to actually deal


with corruption, it is not a side bar to the economic life of the


country, isn't it, it is really central to the economic life of the


country? It is absolutely central, but it was, as I'm sure will be


confirmed, it was a huge issue in 1989. How long do we have to go on


talking about corruption. It has only got worse, since 1989. Funnily


enough with social media, et cetera, this idea of citizens surveillance,


that if they see a lowly official driving around in a Ferrari, they


report him or her. That was impossible before? It was


impossible before. But also the scale of corruption was impossible


before. The transition to the market, or the semi-market economy,


has opened this opportunity for this particular combination of


power and money in China. And the party is hugely enriched, if you


look at the figures of who are the richest in China, they are


predominantly in the party or associated with the party. But the


young people that Paul spoke to earlier, seemed non-plused about


the result. It was almost, as if it gets better for me then it is OK.


You are asking people who have no effect ofpb the outcome. They have


to accept what they are given, they can only hope As far as what people


hope for and want, what is the party afraid of, people no longer


trust it t they mock it liberally, people want health, they are afraid


of getting ill, many want afford treament, they know they will be


bankrupt, they have tremendous insecurities. The Chinese


leadership reading De Tockveiled, is there a fear now, looking at


what happens happening in Europe, a time of os terity, people not


having jobs -- austerity, people not having jobs, that the worst


thing that could happen in China is chaos? DeTockville said one of the


main reasons for the French Revolution is things had got better,


and the danger of rising living standards, which make people think,


no, we will not live as poor, downtrodden peasants for our lives,


we want rights. Referring back to things said earlier, there is this


sociopolitical undercurrent, that is very strong in China today. It


is not a demand for western democracy, as such, it is a demand


for rights to property, it is a demand for rights to free speech,


it is a demand for right to freedom from the horrible environmental


pollution. All these things people are beginning to reach out for, and


they want those. The great problem for Xi Jinping, which was evident


in his remarks about the need for social progress, yesterday, is can


the one-party communist state, with its whole apparatus and power


system, cope with those kinds of grassroots demands which are taking


place on an enormous scale in China. This is really the big story of


China, not the economic story, it is not the formal, political story,


it is the social story for the next five years.


First of all, I want to talk about Isabel Hilton, ten days ago, were


people talking about that undercurrent of discontent, that


people want things changed or not? I think it is very present. The


party want to put it in the context of without us there is chaos. When


they are talking about political reform, they are talking about


managing the kind of protests that Jonathan is discussing. And these


are very big protests. In the run up to Congress you saw the


Government backing down on major environmental protests. Will there


be, do you think, will it be like Tiananmen Square, if there is a


protest, or will it be something different? You heard from Paul


there, saying a new generation, access is global -- accesses global


media and 0 son, wants to be in touch with people. Will it be, like


if it comes, be like Tiananmen Square? I can't make that


prediction, I can report to you this, there are hundreds of


thousands of uprisings taking places current low every year, in


China. A different scale from different places. -- currently


every year, in China, a different scale for different places. Taking


a protest to Tiananmen Square it was suppressed 23 years ago, it has


established fear for people to do so. The anger and dissatisfaction


is very much present, and accumulating there. It is coming up


from different directions. Although it may not be another Tiananmen


Square, but the Communist Party know the power of something like


Tiananmen Square is definitely there. And then it is directly


threatening their stability. So the Chinese regime have been spending


more money on called maintaining stability than the national defence.


Basically, internal security expenditures has exceeded national


defence since 2007. The fear is on both sides. People are afraid of


the military supression for sure, when you see something like


Tiananmen Square happening, and then you kind of leave a fear for


sure. But the Communist Party, the regime has also a very strong fear.


Very briefly, do you think there is talk that it will be five years and


then after five years Xi Jinping will be able to effect the kind of


changes he wants to change. Do you think there will be a holding the


position for five years, socially and politically, or not? There are


two things they have to do to hold this stability. One is to really


get out and fight corruption. And establish a clean Government system.


That corruption can be prevented. I look at the new leader, they put


the person in to fight corruption, he's one of the most respected


politicians in China with a reputation outside. I have very


good trust in him. The problem with this task is it may be very, very


big, how they contend is depending on the number of factor. First of


all, the economy has to continue to grow. So the people, materially,


they can improve their living standards. So that this content can


be suppressed in terms of the improvement of living standards.


Then fighting the corruption, and clean up the environment. These are


the issues they have to deal with, urgently.


Wind farms, rising electricity cost, and forced lower tarrifs, nuclear


power station, the Green Deal. Are we not all drown anything a sea of


contradictory signals over future energy policy. The Government is


xek today publish the long anticipated Energy Bill next week,


with open warfare between the parties particularly on the


question of offshore wind, will politics or hard evidence dominate


the bill? On shore wind is one of the most


mature of our renewable sources of energy. Its opponents are vocal.


They see turbines as a blight, and resent taxpayer subsidies oinggon


that. There is a row over how many wind turbines like these we want to


build to meet our will electricity needs. What is the best energy


option environmental low, and how much are we, the taxpayer, prepared


to pay for it. Renewables advocates argue that the


cost of on shore wind is falling. On-shore wind, today, costs us


about 20% of what it cost us when we started to build it. As the cost


come down, we would expect the invent advisers in development of


wind to come down, incentivisers in development of wind come down. And


the Government accepted a 10% reduction in that support mechanism


What is a fair assessment of the economics of wind power. One


comparison is the relative cost of generating a unit of electricity.


Current estimates suggest on-shore wind comes out at the two-thirds


the cost of offshore wind. At its cheapest it costs about the same at


gas, at the most expensive it is comparable with coal. And it comes


in about the same cost as nuclear. Though researchers warn that


nuclear costs could rise. On shore wind is one of the most cost


effective options we have got, it is one of the most cost effective


low-carbon options we have got. Meeting our targets without on


shore wind would be particularly hard to do. This is where renewable


28% from on shore wind, about half as much from offshore wind, and


then solar. Overall, renewable sources provide only Tyney slice sf


our total energy needs. Just -- tiny slice of our total energy


needs. About 10%. We are committed to producing 15% of total energy


from renewables. Those who prefer a free market approach, say subsidies


and targets are the wrong way to shift us to a a different energy


supply. The only targets that are mar are reducing carbon emissions.


The renewable energy target is not an important part of meeting that.


In some ways it gets in the way. A much better approach is a long-term,


and tougher carbon price, tkphrifrd either through a tax or through --


delivered either through a tax or cap. Some support for technology.


But get to go a stage where these technologies -- getting to a stage


where these technologies compete against each other for the cheapest


way of delivering energy. On shore wind has become a flash point for


the coalition Government. With Conservative minister, John Hayes


complaining too many turbines have been peppered across the UK, and


enough a enough. His Lib Dem boss, Energy Secretary, Ed Davey, slapped


him down, he went on to Claire it is "job done" on wind. 100 Tory MPs


wrote to David Cameron demanding a cut to subsidies for on shore wind.


This close to the expected publication of the energy bill, we


believe there are dope disagreements within the Government


of getting drafting. Getting those complex details right will be key


to getting investment into the British power sector. Not just


interrenewables, but wind, gas and nuclear and the whole piece. The


difficulty is, that despite getting the detail right, even if the


Government gets the detail right, which remains to be seen. This


political wrangling over the whole low-carbon agenda, over the best


way to meet targets, and over the role for on-shore wind, is


undermining the aspirations of the bill. The key thing to understand


about MPs and politicians is we're not experts on the environment,


we're there to represent our constituents. Our contribution


really is to talk about the details. What it feels like in the local


area. What the effect there is on the local economy, and how it


affects people's homes and lifelyhoods. I think that matters -


- livelihoods, and I think that matters, and the Government will


listen. The bigger issue to focus on is energy for the next 30-40


years. The row over on shore wind could take the focus away from the


bigger energy challenge managing a tough reduction in carbon eMiGs and


an energy supply we can rely on. Liyuan sits on the energy and


climate change Select Committee. And L Ron Hubbard from the Lib Dems.


The country -- Mark Hoban, from the Lib Dems.


The real point is Ed Davey, has made it clear the Government's


commitment is clear. We will make sure that the Government commitment


to provide 30% of UK elect trisry from new renewable sources --


electricity from renewable sources continues. I'm sure that David


Cameron will make sure John Hayes sticks to policy. John Hayes, sorry,


Ed Davey disagrees with John Hayes, there will be no more on-shore wind


turbine, they are not going to happen. The commitment shared, we


will make sure the Conservatives stick to it, is to have the 60%


renewable component by 2020. There are a number of ways. As your


graphic showed, on-shore wind is by far the cheapest of those. It would


seem odd at this time for John Hayes to argue to spend more money


than necessary. We need to spend more money on renewables, it will


save a lot on gas bills. But on- shore wind has a great place.


quite obvious, that there is a deep devise in the coalition for this.


The Financial Times on-line has reported they have had to delay a


meeting of the Quad, because they can't even agree a policy a week


before the energy bill is published. Maybe you will have to give way and


say on-shore energy and renewable energy, needs to be ramped up


again? What matters here is actually what works. Coalition


politics will play out as it will do. I'm more interested in the


long-term energy future of my country, and if you look at it, on-


shore wind and particularly off- shore wind, isn't a way of


guarnteeing energy security in the future. We have obligations, Julian


is right, we have obligations with Europe, we have legislation in


place with regards to the proportion of renewables in the


energy mix. You don't want them to be wind turbine, you don't want on-


shore energy to be delivered by turbines? The difficulty is local


communities who have the wind farms don't want them. They would be more


likely to want them if the figures add up. I'm a scientist and so is


Julian, the physics of wind power doesn't add up. You mean the


science is underpinning George Osborne's anti-pathy to it? I think


the economics is underspinning that anti-pathy. Ultimately we have a


challenge with regards to energy in the near future. We have to solve


it, in the most cost pective way. George Osborne, -- Cost effective


way. George Osborne and Danny Alexander are completely divided on


this. What should the electorate make of it? It should make that we


are trying very hard to stick to our commitment, and I hope the


Conservatives will stick to the things that they said. We will make


sure this is the greenest Government ever. I was surprised by


the comment by Philip, about the physics of wind not adding up.


People around the countries are looking at wind because it is cheap.


We have reduced the supsidies to it because it is affordable and worked


well. The tragedy is we didn't do more wind power 20 years ago, when


the Shetlands were doing it. We could export the technology around


the world. It is a huge business growth for the UK, we shouldn't


walk away from it. You I do this what will govern this in the end,


sadly, one way or the other, will be politics, and not the scientific


evidence? Sadly, for my taste, as a former scientist, sadly, not enough


scientific evidence is taken account of. But the science it


clear, the chief scientific adviser in the Department of Climate change,


wrote an excellent book, Sustainable Energy Without Hot Air,


it goes through the science and how it adds up. There are lots of ways


of providing energy for this country, if you want to do it


without on-shore wind it will cost more.


If you haven't had text, e-mail or phone call, or all three, to say


you are in line for a big PPI payment, then, most probably, lucky


you. With at least �12 billion put aside by the banks to compensate


customers mis-sold payment protection plans, there is a new


growth industry in claims management companies. An associated


get-rich-quick and unregulated claims handler. They are the bane


of many people's lives. Tonight Newsnight explains how they are


doing it. It has been a long day at work, all


you want to do kick back in front of the TV. (phone rings) What's


this? One calling me. I bet it is one of my close friends calling for


a gossip. Autoed voice) Hello, did you know dfrpb (automated voice)


Did you know you could be entitled to compensation) No I don't. There


are plenty of options to get your money back if you were mis-sold PPI


insurance, with the help of the Government and ombudsmen groups.


You could use an intermediary firm to apply on the banks on your


behalf, claims management companies. They tell you the exact amount that


awaits you, you won't have to sign everything. Your verbal agreement


to act on your behalf acts as a contract, and business is booming.


For years having mis-sold shruerpbs in case you couldn't pay --


insurance in case you couldn't pay a loan, the banks have admitted


they were wrong and they have agreed to put aside �13 billion to


pay out PPI. Almost half has been paid out already already. It


created many Companies Acting on customers behalf, and taking 25%


cut at least from every successful payout. Averages �100 fees for


middle men, -- �11 fees for middle men being -- �1100 fees for middle


men being paid out. Consumer groups are worried that there will be


victims twice? This business is unnecessary, and adds burden and


costs to the general public, who are actually the victims in all of


this, and shouldn't have to suffer more than they do already. Here are


the three ways a customer can claim money back if they have been mis-


sold PPI. The simplest way is by approaching the bank directly and


they will investigate and pay out if the claim is legitimate. Next is


customers to approach a CMC to act on their behalf, and to the banks


taking a fee of a quarter of what the bank pays out. This is where


the Spam texts and disembodied calls come in, this is number three.


Companies randomly generate mobile phone numbers in Britain, and text


or call them prop missing a big pay day. Someone nibbles, that


information is sold for around �40 to a more legitimate CMC, who then


pursues the claim. Spamers and cold callers are often,


but not often district from claims management companies. Spaming us


without our consent is illegal. Bombarding us with TV adverts is


not. If the claims management companies didn't pay the Spamers


for leads containing our information, then the telephonic


bombardment wouldn't have turned into the epidemic it has.


Hello. Do you know you could be entitled to compensation over mis-


sold payment protection insurance. I have had several calls, I'm not


interested. Spare a thought for the banks


originally mis-sold PPI, they have had to hire thousands of extra


staff to process the claims and rebates. Of the claims they get,


half come from claims management companies, of that number, 40% are


deemed bogus. Long dead customer, duplicate claims, people who never


bought PPI in the first place, the banks want to put a full stop on


the issue. They are lobbying hard with the FSA, to set a date beyond


which there may be no further claims. Don't expect that to happen


before 2014. Now the Ministry of Justice is also


concerned about this issue, in future, it wants all contracts with


CMCs to be in writinger rather that over the phone. That seems --


writing rather than the phones. Until then the phone calls and


texts will continue, and the profiteering off the back of it.


What the hell is wrong with you, I'm not interested in making any


claims. How did you even get my number? Never call me again, all


right. I'm joined by Jacky Doyle Price a


Conservative MP who recently called a debate about claims management


company, and Andy Wigmore, from the Claims Standards Council. The trade


Association for Claims management companies.


Andy Wigmore, 85% of us are getting the calls and texts and on-line


stuff, because these guys are he will ising the information to your


claims management companies? Yeah, we can put this into some kind of


concept, this flood, this tsunami of text messages created by two


individuals, and out of the jurisdiction of this country.


say, "two" individuals, I would be surprised. Out of what country?


have identified where it is coming from, in India. They have this


superserver that randomly generates millions of these text messages.


doesn't matter, OK that is happening. They are presumably


enterprising guys and not stopping. The point is, people are giving


information, which you, your members are buying, of course they


are going to do it? Absolutely. You have to put it into some context.


Why is there an issue relating to this? It is because the banks,


remember, they stole �12 billion and the consumer has a right to get


that back. It is OK for me to get a text last week which says I'm owed


�5,500, and never heard a peep. It is OK for people, elderly, and


infirm, it is OK to get that? is random. There is no


justification. That is no justification. I agree, these


isolated individuals have flooded the market with the Spam text


messages. Not claim companies. one last thing at this stage, why


on earth do you suggest that your members should feel perfectly


legitimate to take information from these people? Because if we look at


what happened in the beginning. If the banks had got their act


together in the first place, you wouldn't have the issue. Kirsty,


people didn't know they had PPI or were entitled to it, that is why


you have the business allowing that to happen. Some claims are


legitimate and people have had money back? That's right. But the


reality is they don't need to use a claims management company to get


the refund. The banks have set aside the �12 billion, they call up


the bank and ask to put a claim in. The banks are backward rather than


coming forward with information? That is true, the regulator was


backward in coming forward with the information. We don't want to see


that repeated with these company. The ministry -- Companies.


Ministry of Justice looked at the regulation of the claims management


companies and didn't look at cold calling? This is regulatory, it is


regulated by Ofcom and the ICO. We have to match this up they need to


look at it. I'm a sure it doesn't feel to all the people getting


calls that it is underregulated? certainly doesn't. And it is really


becoming epidemic now. We are into that phase where there is still


this pot of money, and claims management companies have got the


opportunity to make lots of money out of it. They are trying


everything. It is cost-free and risk-free for them to do this.


Citizens Advice Bureau report cites a number of examples, an 84-year-


old woman, with a credit card, was not covered by PPI, but was


persuaded to go in with a claims management company, they charged


her �359 on a credit card, and she didn't have a PPI. That is wrong,


there are regulatory structure for that. There are a small proportion


of rogues giving the rest of us a bad name.


How do you know it is a small few? Those companies that operate


properly follow strict rules. The claims managed regulator has been


very effective cleaning up the industry. You can't control the


rogues, they are criminal, often, and these people will abuse the


consumer. You can say, I represent the claims


management council, and no claims management company is going to take


information from rogue traders in India? There are issues around it.


What is wrong with marketing in this context. Look at the Royal


Mail yesterday, they wanted to encourage more mail, the mailbox of


the 20th century is your phone, that will increase. The Citizens


Advice Bureau says you are out of control? I think that is a very


poor report. They have been involved in a lot of the regulatory


issues, they have seen a lot of the intelligence. Author of that has


been incredibly lazy or had his ear shut. I have to disagree with that.


My constituents have been coming into my surgery, giving exactly


these sorts of examples. I have a constituent who was cold-called by


a claims management company, she asked for the form, and submitted


it herself, and saddled with a bill of 30% of her refund. The company


did nothing to get her refund. Consumers don't know they have a


PPI or are entitle. Most people are on the fishing exercise. If they


don't want to use a claims management company they can do it


themselves. You are exploiting their lack of knowledge? If a


claims management company educates them, what is wrong with that, it


is giving the consumer the opportunity to get dedress and give


them the money the banks stole from them. How much of your work are you


getting through texts and on-line contact? It is a mix of marketing.


Most of the regulated claims management companies aren't allowed


to cold call, it is a criminal act, and they don't, the Ministry of


Justice is very hard coming down on these organisations. There is good


and bad companies, unfortunately it is the bad companies that give the


rest a bad name. What we need to do is keep the pressure up, Andy


represents 100 companies, there are 3,000 in the market. That is a lot


to catch up. On the night that Xi Jinping started his rule. Artists


in London are recreating Chinese artist, WeiWei, the Gangman style,


and it was dis -- banned in China. The floor belongs to the Chinese


# Go gangnamstyle # Go gangnamstyle


# Woop gangnamstyle Let's lift the gloom, the weekend


is brighter. Dreary and cloud through tomorrow. Rain turning up


across large parts of Northern Ireland and Scotland. Further south


a few brighter breaks, but generally rather cloudy, and


showery bursts of rain setting in across parts of Wales. Eventually


the north Midlands too. Further south and east, as you can see a


lot of dry, although overcast weather A few glimpses of sunshine,


perhaps towards the coast of the south-east, most will stay


stubbornly overcast. Rain setting in across parts of south-west


England and certainly west Wales. As we go into the evening time, it


could turn wet inside. -- indeed. In Northern Ireland a soggy end to


the day, not warm either, seven or eight degrees, that rain becoming


more widespread across Scotland, as we end the day, particularly out


west. Rain around as we hit the weekend. Good news is it will clear


away during the course of Saturday, brighter but colder, and the


showers across Scotland will fall down to low levels. Further south,


it will take a wee while for rain to clear. It are do, the sun


continuing into Sunday as well. That is good news. This is