Browse content similar to 14/01/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, renegotiation of the European Union, repatriation of | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
powers, Brussels bureaucrats. Whatever you may think of the EU, | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
what do they think of us? Newsnight has been to hear the German debate. | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
They may want to be our closest partner, but British talk of | :00:26. | :00:32. | |
renegotiation wins no votes there. The British way seems to be, we | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
want our own relationship with the European Union, and the German | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
attitude is, now we have to go in more. Also tonight, how long will | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
it be until we all have to work until 70 to collect a state pension. | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
Today's sweeping pension reforms might require less optimistic | :00:47. | :00:54. | |
future planning for all of us. 68 years old I'm in Jamaica with my | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
family on holiday, I'm relaxes, that is my retirement place to go. | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
I don't think I should be work. ask the writer of Quartet what the | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
future holds for the old. It sounds like a prison. The service lift is | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
currently being repaired, but we have the chairlift which will be | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
much easier from you. What do I do when I get to the top, ski down! | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
The writer of Quartet is here, along with the Pensions Minister, | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
along with others to talk about prejudices against those no longer | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
young. Timbuktu, the great city of Mali was once considered so remote, | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
most of us couldn't find it on a map. Why are we suddenly involved | :01:30. | :01:40. | |
:01:40. | :01:41. | ||
in French military operations on what was once the middle of nowhere. | :01:42. | :01:48. | |
Good evening. For more than 200 years, from the music of handle and | :01:48. | :01:55. | |
the Hannoverian Princes and prugs minces helping, and even Prince | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
Albert, even how we celebrate Christmas, the links between | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
Britain and Germany have always been strong. The history of the | :02:02. | :02:08. | |
last century have shown how strong relationships can haywire. Ahead of | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
David Cameron's big speech on Europe, if he does want to | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
renegotiate membership and repatriate powers, the one country | :02:16. | :02:23. | |
to get on side, Germany. Angela Merkel and David Cameron have | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
similar views on Europe, and she wants Britain to take more of a | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
role. Where does it leave us on a referendum that could leave us | :02:31. | :02:39. | |
outside the EU. We have seen to Germany to find out. | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
Hannover once sent its rule Tory run Britain. These days, the | :02:43. | :02:53. | |
:02:53. | :02:54. | ||
electors of Hanover are concentrating on polls, Angela | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
Merkel's party have a battle on their hands. And at this time they | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
would like the old alliance with Britain to be a source of strength | :03:03. | :03:11. | |
rather than trouble. There is a British way that seems to be we are | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
going our own way and we want to have our own relationship with the | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
European Union. The German attitude is we have to go in more, engage | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
more and rebuild this European Union, but inside. And we are a | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
little bit sad that there are so many voices within the UK who want | :03:30. | :03:39. | |
to go out of the union, I guess this is a problem. The CDU's man in | :03:39. | :03:46. | |
this state, David McAllister, is proud of his Scottish father, and | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
dual Germany-British nationalty. Like -- dual German-British | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
nationality, like many of the supporters watching the debate, he | :03:52. | :04:01. | |
wants a strong EU, with Britain at its heart, rather than its margins. | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
Talk in Britain of renegotiating the relationship with the EU is | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
causing real concern in the ruling party here. Leading figures are | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
beginning to speak publicly about that. They are worried about more | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
political turbulence in the EU, when the focus should be on | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
economic regeneration, and about the UK and Germany becoming, in | :04:22. | :04:30. | |
some way, estranged. On the outskirts of Hanover, this company | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
produces high-quality audio equipment. Family-owned, employing | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
more than 2,000 people, it's bucking the recession with rising | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
sales. London, and its music industry are key to the business. | :04:43. | :04:50. | |
Any threat to that would worry them. The UK, particularly London, are | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
considered the centre of the music industry, rock 'n' roll, the | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
creative industry, the lifestyle that is born and traded in that | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
vivid city, it goes out to the world. If they decide to say, OK, | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
yeah, we're no longer part of this, we are more isolated, I think that | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
reputation could go down. someone says, well, actually, we | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
know that, we want to avoid that, and we would have free trade with | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
Germany or the EU as a whole, because that would still be in our | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
mutual interest would, that satisfy your concerns? Of course, anything | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
that takes barriers down is fine for us, but it is also necessary. | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
But I know how complicated it is to negotiate all these different | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
specialties we have, but this is very complicated to come to these | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
agreements. It is very cumbersome, and it takes a long time, | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
particularly in these times, where business is not really, really | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
stable, we all need to be very cautious about putting up | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
additional obstacles. It is pretty clear that in both politic ka -- | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
political and business circles there is unease about what Britain | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
might be planning in terms of its EU membership. What about public | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
opinion, we want to test it in probably the most anglophile of | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
German cities, Hamburg. Hamburg University has its radical posters, | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
arthouse cinema and free-thinking students. Do they feel Britain | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
should be able to define a special status within the EU? Britain sort | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
of, in my experience they tend to think, some still do, the only | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
union we were ever interested in of the empire and then the | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
Commonwealth, and the European Union, it's a continental thing, | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
and we don't really want to engage in that. From a continental | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
perspective, Britain tends to have this notion of, well, we want to | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
have the good parts, but we don't really want the bad parts. I like | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
Britain very much, and I would be quite sad if Britain would leave | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
the EU, because we think it is a great country. I think it would be | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
great to work together with Britain. But I think it is sad that they | :07:05. | :07:15. | |
:07:15. | :07:18. | ||
have always been so careful, and never really taken a step into it. | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
This is an unusually pro-British city, in part because of the | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
historical trading ties, and in part because of an experience that | :07:26. | :07:35. | |
might be called a velvet occupation. German's two main news magazines, | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
located here in 1945, because the British were the first to give them | :07:40. | :07:47. | |
licenses to print. Today, though, one former London correspondent | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
cautions the Conservatives against thinking Germans are in the mood to | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
support the UK while it negotiates its EU opt-outs. People think that | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
Britain has to decide if it wants to be in or out. And there is a | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
feeling that it starts to get on people's nerves a bit, you know. | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
There are already people who say well if they don't want to be here, | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
then they can get out, you know. Let us deal with the crisis then, | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
don't disturb the important work of getting it all sorted out. Why | :08:18. | :08:24. | |
don't you get out if you don't want to be with us? I think that's a | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
dangerous development, because Germany always has needed Britain, | :08:29. | :08:39. | |
:08:39. | :08:40. | ||
in negotiations in the EU, because it was a pragmatic partner. After | :08:40. | :08:46. | |
the TV debate in Hanover, David McAllister got a raptous welcome | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
from his party supporters. If anyone personifies the close | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
British and German relationship, surely it is him. But if the | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
Conservatives think that a Commons centre right platform, and family | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
ties might make Mr McAllister more open to a looser British | :09:03. | :09:12. | |
involvement in Europe, they have got another thing coming. | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
Germans believe in a strong European Union, we want Britain to | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
stay in the European Union, it wouldn't be the same without the | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
British. Member-states shouldn't start to opt-out on certain | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
political issues. We can only solve our problems together in Europe, in | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
a globalised world, that is why we need a strong Britain and a strong | :09:31. | :09:40. | |
European Union. McAllister supporters are hoping of winning | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
this state, and CDU ones of hoping on to power nationally, when | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
federal elections take place in eight or nine months. Far from | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
being Germany's ally in the next few months, many Christian | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
Democrats fear that a Cameron push for a la carte membership could put | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
the countries on a membership collision course. If we agree upon | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
a special relationship of the UK to the rest of Europe, we will have a | :10:10. | :10:16. | |
blueprint. The next step, for example, Poland or other countries | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
will also demand the same. This will be the first type of a melting | :10:20. | :10:27. | |
down of the whole union. So far Germany's leaders have been muted | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
in their criticism of British Conservatives, and many hark back | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
to happier times for the two countries. But the stage seems set | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
now for increasing discord between Britain and the EU's dominant | :10:40. | :10:47. | |
member. I'm joined now by sir Malcolm | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
Rifkind, who was Foreign Secretary, and spent a lot of time in European | :10:51. | :10:59. | |
negotiations, and the shadow Foreign Minister, and as Tony | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
Blair's Europe Minister is no stranger to these discussions. What | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
is feasible in negotiations with people who think the idea is crazy? | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
First of all, we have to wait until the Prime Minister has made his | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
speech, I don't know what is in that speech any more than anyone | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
else does, that is obviously a caveat I have to make. You know, I | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
don't think anyone has any illusions that if you try to | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
negotiate for major changes in the European Union, it is extremely | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
difficult. I was Margaret Thatcher's Europe Minister when she | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
started negotiating for a British rebate, surprise, surprise, there | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
was not a single all lie, not a single country that supported it. | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
These things do take time. But they are possible? They are possible. | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
One of the mistakes made by some of the commentators in the film from | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
Germany, they implied at the moment that everybody in the European | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
Union has the same rights and responsibilities, not true. We have | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
major opt-outs already, not just for Britain. We negotiated them as | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
we went. You are talking about reliving the past, and saying there | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
is some things we did in the past which we agreed to, and we are not | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
going to do it now, like immigration policy. Could you | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
actually change the immigration policy, or free movement of labour, | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
that some of your supporters like, it seems unlikely? Some things | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
can't be negotiated away, because you remove the core of European | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
competence, and you stop being a member. I would agree with you that | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
is not something that could be negotiated in a convincing way. | :12:20. | :12:26. | |
That is not the only point at issue. It is the point that many UKIP | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
voters, and many Tories leaning to UKIP do want? This is not just a | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
question about UKIP, the vast majority of the British public are | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
unhappy about the present areas of European confidence in the UK, | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
things like the Working Time Directive, there is a range of | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
issues about fisheries policy, other matters on justice and home | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
affairs, these are negotiable. But I add a caveat, I agree with you, | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
the Prime Minister has to be careful not to create expectations | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
that cannot be delivered. I think also, members of his party, and | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
those who want change, must be careful about rhetoric, the | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
European Union is a club of 27 countries, no-one country can | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
dictate to others, it will require negotiation and compromise. | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
terms of that, now is a good time isn't it? It is not just that | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
British people looking at the problems of the eurozone, and how | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
difficult it is to get any agreement on that, but there is an | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
opportunity. Europe is re-thinking itself, it will probably be more | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
closely knit together, we have an opportunity to change our entire | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
relationship? Of course change is coming to Europe, it is very far | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
from clear that the Germans will push for treaty change. It may be | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
non-treaty changes that are used to strengthen the eurozone. But, | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
listen, the fundamental problem is this, the gap between what | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
Conservative backbenchers are now demanding, and what the rest of | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
Europe can tolerate remains achingly wide. The reason the | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
speech is being delivered, on Friday now, not on Tuesday, it is | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
not for reasons of policy, it is for reasons of politics. The reason | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
David Cameron didn't deliver that speech during the whole of 2012 was | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
that he was literally rendered speechless by, on one hand, what he | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
knew he could deliver in Europe, and on the other hand, what he knew | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
that his own backbenchers were deened maing of him. That is why we | :14:06. | :14:12. | |
have seen very senior business leaders like sir Richard Branson | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
and Martin Sorrell this week is that in order to satisfy and unify | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
his party, David Cameron has to set the bar so high, there is no way | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
the Germans could agreed. Maybe that is true, but as a matter of | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
principle, you presumably accept that one of the great flaws of the | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
European project is many voters in lot of countries, not just our's, | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
are not brought alone. The democratic deficit it is called, | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
they don't feel part of it. One way of solving that is to say this is | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
the deal, this is what I can deliver and put it to the British | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
voters, you are against that? Cameron can't tell you the deal, | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
what he's negotiating for or the circumstances in which he would be | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
inviting people to be part of something or not part of something. | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
The real challenge is certainly to make change happen in Europe. We, | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
as the Labour Party, want to see change. But the way to achieve the | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
change, we would argue, is reform within Europe, not the threat of | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
exit from Europe. Because if you are perceived to be in the | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
departure lounge, then whether it is the German Government, the | :15:06. | :15:08. | |
polish Government, certainly the French Government, they will be | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
less willing to give you the changes you want, and some of the | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
changes that seem to be under contemplation, will be regarded as | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
providing a fundamental threat to the single market. Can I in the | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
spirit of constructive criticism disagree with Douglas! This is not | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
all happening in a vacuum, because of the eurozone crisis, because of | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
the proposals of the euromembers for a banking union that could be a | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
fiscal union, we are in a period of fundamental change. It is not just | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
the UK, only 17 of the 27 countries are in the eurozone, there is a | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
fundamental negotiation that is unavoidable as to how the other ten | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
countries, ten countries, not one, are going to be able to have their | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
rights in the single market and elsewhere fully protected in the | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
future. That is about the future, with respect, some of the things | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
that some of those within your party want are to go back over the | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
past, you could be even more enthralled to those people if you | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
win the next election. Because they would be the backbenchers that | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
David Cameron would rely on, just as it happened with John Major? | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
There is nothing in the Ten Commandments, or in any other | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
statute of law that says you cannot repatriate certain powers. Even the | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
European Union, although many people will hate it, can make | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
concessions, if the case it put convincingly. I accept one | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
fundamental point, if there is going to be a realistic prospect of | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
successful negotiation, the best chance will be if what Britain | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
seeks, if it was conceded, will not harm other states. Now, for example, | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
there are many areas of policy where you could put that equation, | :16:38. | :16:44. | |
if it is not met, if you are asking to make sacrifices it is less | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
likely to be achieved. What if David Cameron delivers 40% or 60% | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
of what he wants to secure. If he sets the bar as there will be | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
fundamental and catagoric change in Europe, and if we don't secure the | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
Europe of my dreams, we will leave the European Union, don't we | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
default into a position where your own backbenchers, never mind the | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
country, then says we are left with no choice other than exit? I go | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
part of the way with you, because certainly I accept that any | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
successful negotiation, not just in the European Union, a successful | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
negotiation never means you get 100%, even a successful negotiation | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
means you get 80-90% of what you would like, and you make some | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
concessions in the areas not so important to you. The Prime | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
Minister should make it clear that compromise has to be part of the | :17:28. | :17:34. | |
negotiation. Do you then recommend exit for the European Union or stay | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
in. What would Labour get starting from a position that they wouldn't | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
put it to the British people, that you are not that irritated or | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
bothered, what would your negotiating position be, much | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
weaker? The way to advance Britain's interests, we would argue, | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
is not narrow repatriation, but broad reform, actually for the | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
reasons just described by Malcolm. Let me give you some examples, we | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
would work for fundamental reform and restraint in the European | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
budget, that is financial reform to start with. Secondly, how is the | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
budget spent, we will continue to argue for fundamental changes in | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
the Common Agricultural Policy. have been arguing that for years? | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
There are issues around democratic legitimacy, I'm speaking a speech | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
this week and I will talk about the steps needed to be taken by the | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
European Parliament and other institution, whether it is | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
financial or fundamental economic change we accept there needs to be | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
change, we think there is a far better and safer way to secure | :18:29. | :18:31. | |
those interests for Britain than standing at the door and putting | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
the gun to the heads. That would be a catastrophe for other countries | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
if we had to get out? It would be a foolish route to take. If we are | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
talking about the real possibilities of negotiation, we | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
already have a Europe a la carte, the doctrinal people in Brussels | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
don't like to admit that. They think that you have a single | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
European Union with everyone having the same responsibilities. You have, | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
as I mentioned earlier, ten or 11 countries that are not in the | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
eurozone. Shen geing, the Irish and the UK are not involved, on defence | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
policy the neutral countries, Sweden and Ireland and so forth do | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
not fully participate. So what we are saying, is, yes, in addition to | :19:11. | :19:13. | |
that, there are certain specific British interests, no doubt there | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
will be other countries that will have certain and specific interests, | :19:16. | :19:22. | |
but as long as the core xetten sis of the core European Union are not | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
disturbed, of which the single market is the most important. Then | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
you can create a diverse Europe which the peoples of Europe as a | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
whole, not just the British people, will be comfortable with. | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
Two of the most critically regarded films on release at the moment are | :19:37. | :19:43. | |
about old age, Quartet is about some of the surprises growing old | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
will be. As movie makers wake up to the idea that an older audience has | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
money to spend, the Government has woken up to the fact that not many | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
of us are thinking about where the money will come from. Today's | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
massive pension reform is a start, the Institute for Fiscal Studies | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
suggests in the long-term it will mean a pension cut in pension | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
entitlements for most of us. Is all this another sign that before long | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
the retirement age will hit 70 or more, a forecast for the retirement | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
age of 68 was included in today's White Paper. Paul Mason has been | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
contemplating our greying future. Work, get used to it, for a long | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
time. And saving. Today's radical pensions rewrite brings clarity to | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
a system that has become impossible to predict. But by the mid-century, | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
for many people, it will be the wrong kind of clarity. At present, | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
there are three teirs of taxpayer funding to the pensions system. | :20:38. | :20:45. | |
There is the basic state pension, topped up to �142.70 a week, with | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
means-tested credits. There is the second state pension, worth, on | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
average, about �18 a week at present, and based on earnings. | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
People in company pensions get tax relieve, and by contracting out of | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
the second state pension, boost their savings by paying less | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
national insurance. Today's White Paper consolidates everything into | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
a basic pension of �144 a week in today's money. The second state | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
pension is gradually abolished. More people will qualify for the | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
full amount, more women, more of the self-employed, but they will | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
have to work for 35 years until they claim it, and for many people | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
that will mean work until you are 68. I think this is a really good | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
news day for pensions, it means that for the first time people will | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
know what they are going to get from the state, it means that | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
finally it pays to save, and people will know that what they are going | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
to get from the state will be �144 a week, and what they save on top | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
of that will be their's and won't be means-tested away. But vox pop | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
Britain is not tuned into the niceties. I don't know that I will | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
actually be, you can't do my work when you are 68. You are either | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
going to have to retire a pauper or work until you die, it is that | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
simple. You know, how old do they want us to be, it is all about | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
saving money and they want you to work more instead of retiring and | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
having a peaceful time and enjoying the rest of your life. At 68 years | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
old I see myself relaxing in the Caribbean, enjoying the life that I | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
have had. I think it is a bit unfair for them to make people of | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
that age work, I couldn't think of my grandparents working now, it is | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
so unfair. The facts driving the change are stark, we are living | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
long he, by 2050, a man retiring will expect to live for 25 years on | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
his pension. But it is also the decline of company pensions that is | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
forcing the Government to draw sharper lines between what the | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
state provides and what you provide yourself. 30 years ago half of | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
people in work, at least half of people in work, were members of an | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
employer pension scheme that was going to give them a pension | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
related to their salary, now very few people in the private sector in | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
that position, quite a lot in the public sector in that position, the | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
state was topping up everyone else to match those occupational schemes, | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
now those occupational schemes largely don't exist, the state is | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
no longer topping anyone else to match it, it is leaving everyone | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
pretty much to do their own work to get their own pension. While, in | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
the short-term, the bill brings a sharp jolt of fairness in terms of | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
women and self-employed, in the long-term, the percentage of those | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
who lose out, coloured blue in this graph, rapidly increases, until by | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
2060, the majority are worse off than they could have been under | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
today's system. You have to work longer, pay more, and get less. It | :23:30. | :23:40. | |
is a con-trick. Why? Because it is 35 years, you have got to pay more, | :23:40. | :23:46. | |
and you have to work until you are 68 to get it. By the time this | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
generation are holding their retirement raef, the burden of | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
paying for -- raves, the burden of paying for old age will have | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
shifted decisively towards individual saving. Bit by bit, | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
successive Governments are putting into place a new design for ageing | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
in the 21st sent treatment it is based on saving more, and working | :24:03. | :24:11. | |
longer. After today, a retirement age of 68 looks likely, the problem | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
is, the jobs and wages of the rising generation might not support | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
it. It has always been the case that people at work are paying for | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
a previous generation. Now, today we have got a situation where | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
people are getting very low wages, they are on short-term contracts, | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
they are on part-time work. They themselves can't manage, and they | :24:33. | :24:40. | |
don't pay it in enough, in order to pay for this, the benefits and the | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
pensions. I don't know how they are going to pay enough for themselves | :24:44. | :24:52. | |
to get this over the 35-year period. Right now, there are for every two | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
pensioners, seven people of working age. By 2050 that number falls to | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
five. It's the iPod generation that will then have to live on the | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
system designed today. With the review of the retirement age every | :25:05. | :25:13. | |
five years, the age of 68 might not be the end of it. The Pensions | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
Minister, Steve Webb is here, along with the economist, Mariana | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
Mazzucato, Michelle Mitchell of Age UK, and the Oscar-winning | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
playwright, Ronald Harwood, who has written, among many things, Quartet, | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
a film about growing old, quite disgracefully. First of all, you | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
made a play by saying these are huge reforms today and they will | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
simplify the system, which everyone agrees, you also said that there | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
will be winners and loser, most people will be winners, in the | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
long-term most of us, according to the IFS, will be losers. Over the | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
first few decades, a pretty long time, far more people gain than | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
lose, many women, many self- employed people, many lower earners, | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
but higher earners will get less. Over the middle of the century and | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
beyond, it will be true, as the chart showed, from our publication, | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
we will spend more of our share of national income on pensions, but | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
not much more. We are slowing the rate of growth, that is all we are | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
doing. Slowing the rate of growth of spending on pensions. Is then | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
the message to all of us, we will have to make private provision, and | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
there are some who criticise the Government for its raid on private | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
provision of pensions, and also that we will have to work longer | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
until 70 or 72 or something like that. By the time this kicks in? | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
Certainly working longer is part of the mix. One of the things we have | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
done in the last few years abolish the law that allowed people to be | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
sacked for being 65, until a couple of years ago it was legal to sack | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
someone for that. Longer working years part of the mix, a firm | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
foundation from the state is part of the mix, but more private | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
savings. Today's 20-year-old were automatic enrolled in work place | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
pensions, in decades to come they will have a state floor and a | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
pension of their own. When we talk about the ageing population, do we | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
have to re-think that what it means to be old, what do you think is | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
old? We have to transform the way we think about the ageing | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
population. There is more over 65s than there are 18-year-olds. And | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
the fastest proportion of the population that is growing is over | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
85s, policy makers are often 20, 30 years behind. We are going to have | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
to reinvent the way we think about retirement, pensions, work, | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
attitudes, and really importantly, health and social care. Because | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
older people have a huge contribution to make, and | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
journalists and politicians often frame this debate in terms of | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
burden, in terms of dependency, and yet, there is a massive | :27:36. | :27:38. | |
contribution that older people want to make, and want to stay | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
independent and in control of their own lives. You may have a view, and | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
the rest of us may have a view of what "old" means, but employers | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
also have a view, it might be quite different. If you are 65 or 07 you | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
might think you have another five or ten years in you, employers | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
might not think that? As has been the case with the BBC. There has | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
been big challenges about seeing the experience and skills that orld | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
workers bring. Many want to stay in the work place longer, those that | :28:07. | :28:13. | |
can and are able and want to stay, some employers don't recognise | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
those skills. Most employers or some? We have some good examples, | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
progressive employers, many in retail, Sainsbury's for example, | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
are planning actively for a diverse work force. It is about ensuring | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
when you are in your 50s and 60s you get access to training. One of | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
the big challenges for the over 50s, is when you are made redundant, you, | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
more than any other age group, find it harder to get back into work. | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
Because of a range of factor, sometimes it is confidence, it is | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
also about age discrimination, which still exists. Where do you | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
stand on this, it is not just older people looking for jobs, it is lots | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
of people looking for jobs, including 18-year-olds looking to | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
get into the labour market, they presumably want those of us who are | :28:56. | :29:02. | |
old Tory move out and get out of the way? The dynamics you talked | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
about have changed over time, when we had a stakeholder modern | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
capitalism, there was no investment in human capital formation, | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
training, research and development, increase league as we have had more | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
financialised companies, and companies based more on their | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
shareholder value model, we have had less actual company input into | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
these processes that actually create high-paying, stable jobs, in | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
the end what you really need for a successful pension system is | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
exactly that. The amount of jobs, you need lots of jobs that are | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
stable jobs that pay good wages. Currently the problem is, in this | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
country we don't necessarily, currently, but this is more about | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
if you want a short-term issue have a growth strategy, an industrial | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
strategy, which will actually guarantee those kinds of jobs. If | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
you think about the other two pieces of news that came out this | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
week, one that NHS private providers are actually asking for | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
massive tax cuts, and you know, because they want to be treated | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
like the NHS, but they are not like the NHS, these are profit-seeking | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
companies, it is quite interesting that we actually have a Government | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
that is willing to even engage in that debate, that these companies | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
also become tax evaders themselves, and this is some how part of a | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
legitimate debate. You talked about stable employment, nobody expects | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
people to have 40 years and a gold watch at the end of it. What will | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
happen to people as they get older, they will have to move on and be | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
retrained. At that point, when you are 50 or 55 or 60, whatever it is, | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
that is when you lose out and drop out isn't it, or many people do? | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
This is where policy can come in, instead of having a patchy pension | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
policy, what you really need to do line it up with the policy that | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
also puts more demands on private companies that are currently | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
getting away with murder. The other big news I was talking about. | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
have one or two views on this, this question about private companies | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
getting away with murd, they do move people on when they get to a - | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
- murder, they do move people on when they get to a certain age? | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
big he was change we brought in last year, is people with no | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
mention and don't work for firms where they do provide them, now | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
they have a right to a pension with a work place employer. That is a | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
sea change, and against the grain of deregular lays, we need to get | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
people into saving on top of the state. You were an inspiration, | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
doing not too badly for someone who is beyond the traditional | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
retirement age? I'm 78, Dame Maggie Smith is a month younger than me, | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
she would like me to say that, tomorrow Courtney is a couple of | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
years younger than me, Pauline Colin, Billy Connelly, all at the | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
top of their form in their 70s or more. What Michelle said is | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
absolutely right, we discard the old. Think of all the knowledge and | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
wisdom that goes with retirement. I don't know how the BBC functions, | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
but I bet they don't have anybody helping people who retire. It is a | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
hell of a shock. Suddenly to stop work. Not to get up in the morning | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
and know where you are going, why aren't they helped to find things. | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
There are people, I don't know how old you are Gavin, you are probably | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
25. Even younger! In terms it of the energy of people who are older, | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
and in terms of young people saying why don't these guys and women get | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
out of my way and make way for me? That is a very good point. I have | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
younger children, they have difficulties finding jobs, work, of | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
course they want the old to move out, that doesn't mean that old | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
must be discarded. They can be used. The wisdom, the knowledge, the | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
experience ought to be used. How do you channel that? Look, when you | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
look at the literature post-Second World War, and you were talking | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
about women being pushed out of the Labour market when the veterans | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
were coming back from World War II, we were told then that there | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
weren't enough jobs. I think our understanding of economic policy | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
has moved on, there isn't a credible theory which says a | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
younger person has to take the place of an older person's job, it | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
is about having a clear growth strategy, about having highly-paid | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
jobs, but also having appropriate training at all ages. It is about | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
changing the culture, and changing how we think about all these | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
things? The single biggest change, 65 has been a spell, male pension | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
age has been 65 for a century. That is incredible when you think what | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
has changed in the century. That will change in a few years time, | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
once there is no 65, that is moving on. Watching the football, Alex | :33:22. | :33:27. | |
faringson is running the top team, allegedly, in the country! He's 71. | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
Just changing the way we think about it. Would you accept that is | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
very unusual, one of the unions of today was pointing out, with these | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
reforms, if you are relying on the Government, �144 a week will still | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
be below the poverty line, in other words, you cannot rely on | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
Government provision is what they are saying? Also we have a | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
Government budget that is being undermined by, and it is not a | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
question of a legal tax evasion, but legal tax evasion, which is | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
what I was getting to before, you don't have a confident Government | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
trying to increase the amount of money that the Government has to | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
spend and to co-finance these pensions. We have decreasing amount | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
of tax that is these large companies that used to be the | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
providers of these well-paying table jobs, actually putting less | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
into the system themselves, both in terms of how much they are actually | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
investing in areas like human capital and training, but the | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
amount they see they are responsible for, in terms of | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
providing back to the state which funds the education, roads, | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
transport, the technology that they depend on to become successful. | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
This should be part of the pensions debate. Do you actually think our | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
culture has begun to change. The very fact your film got made, does | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
suggest things have changed a bit? We weren't pioneers, there have | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
been films what is it called "the grey pound", she told me earlier. | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
But it is now an accepted force in society. But we in the arts, I'm | :34:52. | :34:58. | |
sorry to boast about this, always drive both the economy and the | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
politicians. We change the moral complexion, and we are doing that | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
now, and they are going to have to listen very hard. Are you listening | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
very hard? That is the question, most of us, most of the time, hate | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
to think about pensions any way, we hate to think about getting old, | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
despite what you say, and all these advantages, we hate to think about | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
it, we certainly don't want to have to plan for it? And Ronald's | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
message is so helpful, a change in attitudes towards older pom. We | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
recognise 20-year-olds don't think about pensions, that is why the law | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
is they have to be put in, free to opt-out, many just get on with it, | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
they will have it taken. We visited some supermarket workers put into | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
the pension scheme, they all said they will stay in. They were | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
relatively young, relatively low wage, they said they know they need | :35:43. | :35:48. | |
a pension really. Young people we have to help with that, older | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
workers, McDonalds stores that employ older workers are more | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
profitable than McDonald's branches that don't. I will give awe little | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
warning, all of you children here, old age will take you by surprise, | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
and suddenly you need your pension. I'm a privileged member of society, | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
I'm terribly well paid, and have been for a very long time. People | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
who work on a regular basis are taken by surprise, they are 65 have | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
they enough to live on? Do you accept that simplification of the | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
system is absolutely necessary, that has at least been achieved, | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
and there will always be winners and losers, there will be some | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
grumbling, this is only the beginning of quite a long process | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
in reforming the pensions system and the way we think? The children | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
born now a number will live to be over 100. I will be living | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
hopefully significantly longer than my mother and grandmother, the | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
world is changing at a hugely rapid scale. One of the things we | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
shouldn't forget. There is a positive story about ageing and | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
getting older, which is we are living longer and we want to work | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
and make contributions. We cannot forget the people who can't make | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
the contributions and can't work because they have a disability, | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
they are caring, or there isn't work in the area they live, who | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
don't get food quality care, that aren't getting access to the NHS. | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
We have to sit back and also say, as well as the opportunities the | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
cultural change and attitude change, what are our values as a society, | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
what is the minimum level of support, of care, of service that | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
we will give. That minimum has to be higher than we are currently | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
getting at the moment. We will leave it there, thank you all very | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
much. Now the City of Timbuktu in Mali | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
was once thought so foreign to our interests that its name was used to | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
suggest that a society and culture as far removed from Britain as the | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
moon. Now British military aircraft and advisers are helping a French | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
mission to try to throw back Islamist extremist rebels who have | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
taken over a large slice of malli. The fear of the country being used | :37:47. | :37:53. | |
as a major base and training camp for Al-Qaeda and associates is part | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
of the equation. One extremist supporter comments that France has | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
opened the gates of hell. French newspapers worry that going in is | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
always easier than going out. We will hear from the former French | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
Foreign Minister in a moment. First this report. | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
Another French intervention in another former African colony. | :38:11. | :38:19. | |
France now has more than 500 troops in Mali. Its war planes have | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
intensified their bombardment of Islamist rebel targets in the north | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
of the country. They are countering, francais, a growing extremist | :38:24. | :38:34. | |
threat. Not just to the region, but also to Europe. For French | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
President, Francois Hollande, whose rating has plummeted since election | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
last year, it is a coup so far. Francois Hollande was widely seen | :38:43. | :38:52. | |
by some supporters as a rather, emindecisive person, forever | :38:52. | :38:59. | |
consulting and deliberating. A sort of Obama in his early days. The | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
decision to intervene in Mali, which was sudden, forceful and | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
which appears to have been effective, has instantaneously | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
changed President Hollande's image. Now Britain's endorsed the | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
operation, sending transport planes to help. The first was grounded | :39:17. | :39:26. | |
today with a technical falut fault. Mali occupies a huge space, mostly | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
desert, at the heart of Africa. Islamists now control half the | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
country, including the famous city of Timbuktu. Last week France | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
helped malian forces throw rebels back from Konna, on the road to the | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
capital. Today in fierce founting the Islamists counter-attacked and | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
taking a town. The rebels in Mali are a variety of groups, whose | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
allowances shift like The Sahara sands. The famous blue-robed onadms | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
of the desert have been fighting for years for their own independent | :40:01. | :40:10. | |
secular state in Mali. But a multinational Islamist group, has | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
now taken over much of the north, they are called Defenders of the | :40:13. | :40:21. | |
Faith. It includes ve various African Jihadies, it includes | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
weaponry left over from the wars. They are good fighters, trained | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
some of them against the Americans in Afghanistan. Some of them have | :40:28. | :40:35. | |
been working for the Gadaffis for many years. These very well trained | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
soldier, very tough. They are well equipped. They normally would fight | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
a war of movement, I think, but there are stories around that they | :40:43. | :40:49. | |
have been digging a huge base in the mountains in the extreme north- | :40:49. | :40:57. | |
east of Mali. They have captured, among the things left behind, they | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
captured an enormous amount of road making machine, they have been and | :41:03. | :41:09. | |
using it to dig another Tora Bora. In towns like Timbuktu, who had | :41:09. | :41:16. | |
their own form of Sufi Islam, they have destroyed shrines and imposed | :41:16. | :41:23. | |
strict Sharia Law, including amputations for offenders. It is | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
Al-Qaeda in the Maghreb that worries the west more. First and | :41:27. | :41:34. | |
foremost so far they haven't shown the ability or even intention to | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
directly strike in the European countries origins the west. But | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
there is the potential for them to do it in the future, if they decide | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
to step up their ambitions, and so to become much more active, in that | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
ens is, and becoming maybe one of the -- in that sense, and becoming | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
one of the major Al-Qaeda affiliates. The Government called | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
for troops from neighbouring west African states in malicious they | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
will start arriving earlier than expected. France was only supposed | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
to help with training and logistic, not playing the leading part it is | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
now undertaking. Is it just repeating its post colonial role. | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
Until the end of the 1950s France owned a vast swathe of Africa, it | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
never really went away, even after independence. French forces have | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
intervened following coups, unrest or civil war, in state including | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
Gabon, the central African Republic, the Republic of Congo, and Ivory | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
Coast, in Chad an operation in 1968, to put down the rebellion, has | :42:36. | :42:41. | |
ended up lasting, on and off, ever since. Could the same thing happen | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
now in Mali? The danger for France, as with so many western | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
interventions in overseas conflicts, is that it may get bogged down in | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
an operation whose aims aren't clear. If west African troops are | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
unable on their own to achieve the UN Security Council's ultimate aim | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
of restoring state authority, throughout Mali, then French | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
involvement may stretch from weeks into months. Already defence | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
sources are saying that the number of French troops in the country may | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
soon increase from 550 to 2,500, and they are warning of a long | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
foreign military operation there. Unfortunately I have been told that | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
our guest, the former French Foreign Minister has been unable to | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
make it to our studio in Paris, which is a pity. Let's have a look | :43:30. | :43:39. | |
The Times has a lovely picture of the weather with horse riding in | :43:39. | :43:47. | |
the countryside. But the main story is Europe. | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
It says that David Cameron will light a five-year fuse under | :43:50. | :43:56. | |
Britain's place in Europe is how it puts it. The Independent has | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
pictures of Jodie foster in the Golden Globe, acknowledging for the | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
first time that she's gay, the main story is about Mali l the top brass | :44:05. | :44:11. | |
of Number Ten -- Mali. The top brass at Number Ten say avoid Mali. | :44:11. | :44:17. | |
It has the pensions story on the right-hand side too. The Telegraph | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
has a lovely picture of the weather, with a stag under the snow in | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
Derbyshire. But this main story is dementia sufferers abandoned, the | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
Health Secretary says thousands struggle on without help, because | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
doctors refuse to test. 500,000 people to be offered breast cancer | :44:37. | :44:47. | |
:44:47. | :45:12. | ||
drugs. That is all for tonight. I Good evening, still a few snow | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
flurries tonight across eastern counties of England and Scotland. | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
Elsewhere icey conditions to start the day. A few showers to start | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
western parts of Wales and south- west England. Whilst the snow | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
flurries continue through some eastern areas, for many the morning | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
cloud breaks up, bright conditions through the afternoon. Temperatures | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
freezing through north of England. Lincolnshire, East Anglia, parts of | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
Kent, continue to see some sleet, a bit of snow inland. After a great | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
start skies will brighten across other parts of the south-east. The | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
south west and Wales sunny spells through the afternoon. A few | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
showers still around, maybe running into Devon and Cornwall, that could | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
produce snow over the hills. For most a dry and bright day in store | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
after an icey start, icey start in Northern Ireland, again a lot of | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
dry and sunny weather to come throughout the day. For Scotland | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
the morning cloud will break up. Best of sunshine within the west, | :46:04. | :46:11. | |
the morning snow flurries gradually dissipate in Edinburgh, the day | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
will finish brighter we could continue with the sun shine. | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
Temperatures really do struggle to get above freezing as is the case | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
for Wales, we have a cold, Eastleigh flow, starting to push in. | :46:23. | :46:28. |