15/01/2013 Newsnight


15/01/2013

With HMV the latest retail failure, what is the future for the high street? Plus, the population race in Israel's Negev desert, and should teachers get performance related pay?


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Tonight, coming to a high street near you, nothing! What do the

:00:14.:00:18.

difficulties that HMV, now in administration, the loss of Jessops,

:00:18.:00:22.

Clinton Cards, and JJB Sports, among others, tell you about the

:00:22.:00:25.

future of your town. They are calling this a day in the death of

:00:25.:00:29.

the high street, the problem is, these shoppers don't seem to have

:00:30.:00:33.

noticed. So is the gloom on the high street justified, we will

:00:34.:00:39.

debate what the future of shopping really looks like.

:00:39.:00:45.

Also tonight: We are determined to make them glisten again. David Ben-

:00:45.:00:50.

Gurion's Zionist dream of populateing the Negev desert, with

:00:50.:00:57.

Jewish settlers, turns into a fight with Bedouin Arabs. How can we

:00:57.:01:02.

expect Israeli people to deal with a big issue like creating two

:01:02.:01:05.

countries here, when they are not even sure that 20 years from today

:01:05.:01:09.

they will have a country of their own. And teachers' pay will be

:01:09.:01:12.

linked to performance, dismantling the national pay structure,

:01:12.:01:17.

according to the unions. Does it add up to a better education for

:01:17.:01:27.
:01:27.:01:29.

our children. Good evening. You would think that all the outpouring

:01:29.:01:33.

of nostalgia for the music store, HMV, might have translated into

:01:33.:01:36.

profits, if any of the people complaining about it going into

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administration, actually spent much money there. Isn't that the point,

:01:38.:01:42.

we might love the variety of our high streets, and mourn when shops

:01:42.:01:45.

close, but are we going to have to get used to it. How many of us have

:01:45.:01:49.

browsed in a real store, and then bought something on-line at a

:01:49.:01:54.

discount. Do you really miss Woolworths? So, what will the slow

:01:54.:01:57.

death of household names mean for the way we shop, and the way our

:01:57.:02:04.

towns and cities look? Is the high street fined? Paul Mason has been

:02:04.:02:08.

to Brighton to take a peek into the future.

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Brighton, seaside Wonderland, gay capital of the universe, retail

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crisis, same as everywhere else. The once prestigious shopping

:02:17.:02:22.

street has the same mix of the blinging and the boarded up you see

:02:22.:02:27.

across Britain. And now, HMV threatens to become the latest

:02:27.:02:33.

retail casualty. Actually, the Brighton branch of HMV was mobbed

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today, by buyers, in search of bargains, and though the staff were

:02:37.:02:41.

having to turn away vouchers, there was plenty of cash flowing in. But

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the chain, which sells 30% of all CDs in Britain, is in

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administration, and the experts know why. The young people will not

:02:50.:02:56.

necessarily now buy the hard goods, as in solid CDs and DVDs, they will

:02:56.:03:00.

be downloading. And therefore, they wouldn't go into HMV, and yet they

:03:00.:03:03.

are the group to be most likely to be walking about on the high street.

:03:03.:03:06.

Where as older people have got better and better at buying things

:03:06.:03:10.

on-line. They want the physical thing, but they are less likely to

:03:10.:03:15.

be walking into an HMV. HMV haven't recognised the potential of getting

:03:15.:03:21.

older people to come into towns and go and shop in HNVs -- HMVs. It is

:03:21.:03:25.

all part of a massive change that has changed the high street. Latest

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figures show 14% of the shops in Britain's town centres are empty.

:03:28.:03:34.

In the first six months of last year, 20 stores closed, on average,

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every day. Computer game shops were amongst the hardest hit, their

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total number dropped from 44% from January to June. Furniture shops

:03:42.:03:48.

were down 37%, toy shops down 33%. Of course, in the hey day of the

:03:48.:03:51.

big music store, whether it was vinyl or plastic, the attraction

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was never in just the range of things they sold. You could come,

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you could stand in an aisle with a certain kind of music and see what

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people were wearing. You could see what people were buying. And if you

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were really lucky, your eyes would meet somebody else's eyes. The

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problem s of course, you can do all that on the Internet as well! On

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iTunes and Spotify you are instantly part of a community, the

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music you buy and listen to can affect what others buy and listen

:04:23.:04:31.

to. It is quite social, sometimes oversocial. On Amazon, you can buy

:04:31.:04:33.

almost everything, and whether it is books or films, the time between

:04:33.:04:38.

wanting and getting can be seconds. The way that people decide to buy

:04:38.:04:42.

now is massive he 0ly influenced who they are connected to on

:04:42.:04:48.

Facebook and dwit twitter. Rather than waiting for Top Of The Pops to

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tell you what to buy, they will see on-line what is influential, and

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see who is talking about that, and make a decision based on a friend,

:04:56.:05:00.

or someone they might know, increasingly people aren't trusting

:05:00.:05:05.

shops or big bodies, but people like us. That's the theory. But at

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HMV today, there were still some die hards for the an loing

:05:12.:05:17.

experience. What are you buying? bunch of stuff, CDs I am wanting, I

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felt I should do. You are in the iPod generation and the Spotify

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generation, why do you still need CDs? I want them because when I'm

:05:26.:05:29.

listening to something I like looking at the sleeve and it is

:05:30.:05:35.

nostalgic reasons, really. What have you got here? Echo and the

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Bunnymen, oasis. Is this a retro trip, they were all popular when I

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was at university? There is stuff from now, but it is just getting

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stuff that I don't already own on CD. How would you feel if the shops

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like this disappear? It would affect me, I have no internet or

:05:54.:05:59.

computer, I come here all the time to get CDs and DVDs, especially for

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my son, who likes unusual music, so, yes, I will miss it. What do you

:06:05.:06:09.

mean by "unusual" music? Not that you can get in the supermarkets.

:06:09.:06:12.

When you come with your friends, you can choose with what film you

:06:13.:06:15.

want with your friend and take it home. If you are shopping on-line

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you have to wait a few days, and plan ahead, off the cuff you can

:06:20.:06:24.

come and choose what film you want. In that there is a clue to the

:06:24.:06:28.

future of retail N towns with a lot of young people, you find, now, a

:06:28.:06:33.

lot of shops selling an experience rather than physical things. The

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tattoo shop, the unusual tobacco shop, the almost ubiquitious beauty

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parlour? It will be smaller retailers relying on the Internet

:06:44.:06:49.

to spread their messages, it will be bigger retailers talking about

:06:49.:06:53.

experiences and directing them to buy there. New technologies are

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good as killing off business model that is no longer work, but

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prolonged recessions are quite good at killing off business model that

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is should work and could work. In what's happening on Britain's high

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streets, there is a bit of both. a recession, particularly, markets

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polarise and fragment. So you get specialist retailers surviving,

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where generalists will tend to go, and people who are top end or

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bottom end, discounters or specialist retailer, the Waitrose

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or Aldi difference, will do well, the middles will drop out. HMV was

:07:30.:07:34.

a middle? It was a middle. everybody stuck in the middle of

:07:34.:07:41.

this retail squeeze understands, it is tough. Mike Tobin is the boss of

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a �2 billion data network group, teleCity, it provides some services

:07:49.:07:55.

on-line. And we have the head of Leon, head of fast food on the high

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street. Davi Hepworth helped launch magazines like Heat and Mojo. The

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nostalgia was great, but it never paid the bills. They were always

:08:07.:08:12.

going to get in trouble? When they were dealing in a market that so

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quickly shrunk in recent years, by illegal downloading, legitimate

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downloading, competition for on- line CD sellers. In a recession,

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when you are as extends as HMV are on the number of stores they have

:08:25.:08:29.

got. It was very difficult to see them surviving. You will miss it?

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used to work there, 30 years ago. And so I am that have generation,

:08:38.:08:40.

drawn to the high street with the promise of being able to hang about

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in book shops and record shops, which are almost like libraries and

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cathedrals to me. My whole generation of people just did that,

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in the absence of anything else to do. That's what you like doing,

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being near the product. I don't think my children feel the same

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thing at all. Apart from the fellow who wanted today buy Echo and the

:09:01.:09:05.

Bunnymen, most of us maybe won't miss it, did the Internet kill it

:09:05.:09:09.

off? That is a contributing factor, it is sad to hear news like today,

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families will suffer as a result of that. Ultimately we are going

:09:12.:09:15.

through a structural change of the way we live and work. The Internet

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traffic in Europe is doubling every year. And that's because we just

:09:20.:09:26.

are doing more things on-line. 9% of Britain's economy now is on-line.

:09:26.:09:30.

9%? That is the largest in the world, actually. By definition a

:09:30.:09:37.

large proportion of that is downloading music, videos, apps.

:09:37.:09:40.

Are they particularly susceptible, some things you can't do on the

:09:40.:09:45.

Internet, but DVDs and books you certainly can do? Can you, the user

:09:45.:09:49.

experience in the record shop is listening to music, apart from

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social interaction. If you look at what is happening on the high

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street, a lot of high street stores are replaced by quality food chains

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and cafes and coffee shops. People are still coming together, the

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social element is still there, not enough in a shop or cafe. That may

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be true, perhaps, however good you are, you are not the target, we are

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going to you because we are going somewhere else to get shopping, you

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will be affected as well, potentially? I think the high

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street is about to face a golden age. If the market is allowed to

:10:18.:10:22.

work. Three structural things, the first thing, the inner recession,

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in order for markets to clear prices need to come down, and

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assets need to reprise, the high street, because rents are fixed,

:10:30.:10:34.

and because people's debt is at such a high level, the rents aren't

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coming down, they are on an upward- only trajectory, and are not

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flexible to bring new people into the high street. Somebody will have

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to take a haircut in the economic system, in order for rents to be

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priced at where they should be. might be people like you, people

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who have got a store front? It will be pension funds and banks. There

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is a timebomb, where eventually banks are kidding themselves this

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real estate is worth a certain amount of money. Landlords have to

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reduce? Landlords and banks. Deregulate the high street so we

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allow small traders and market traders to populate the high street.

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We are a nation of shopkeepers. Apple, one of the most amazing on-

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line companies, chooses to have apple stores, the highest revenue

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in the world per square foot, something positive is happening in

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retail, and all the small business, people who make their own shirts,

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shoes, costume jewellery, let them in the high street. It is only

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structural things getting in the way. Where are you on this, do you

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see this great golden dawn, or do you see the possibility that 4,000

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people might lose their jobs because of HMV and all the other

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things we have covered? I would like to stop using the word

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"decline", it is revolution, our lives are changing forever. We

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expect everything in 0.011 secretary seconds, that is what we

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expect, we don't write letters we e-mail or text. The consumer

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doesn't understand yet, it will be a centre of socialisation, cafes,

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great facilities, and as you have mentioned, retailers to do their

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jobs brilliantly I don't want retailers who do their jobs just

:12:13.:12:16.

adequately any more. You say, that but I talked to a very canny

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retailer who said, there is a choice if you are going to stay on

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the high street, you either have to provide theatre, some kind of great

:12:24.:12:29.

experience, which you have suggested, or you are really cheap.

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The possibility is, given we are in a recession, a lot of cheap stores,

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charity shops, it might be bookmakers, people obviously who

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can make a profit, but who don't face the problems you will? Charity

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shops are an exception, there are fantastic charity shops that

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understand retail theatre as well. Beware of the cheap price, there is

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a one-way street with that, that is offering value, it is hard to get

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straight back up again. Isn't that what people are looking for?

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don't think it is, people are looking to be stimulated, to enjoy

:12:59.:13:03.

shopping, to get hypnotised by it again. Perhaps you would like to be

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like that, is that where your pocket goes? My pocket is like

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everybody else, as it said in the report, it is fragmented the way

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you spend. You spend in loads of different ways. One thing that is

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important to say, this is not just about retail, this is also about

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businesses, and if you take the demise of HMV is an event of huge

:13:25.:13:31.

import to the record business in this country. Shops have not just

:13:31.:13:34.

been places that you bought things, but that celebrated things. They

:13:34.:13:36.

have been cathedrals to things, things that made you feel that

:13:36.:13:42.

books or records or fashion, or whatever, was important. You found

:13:42.:13:47.

stuff you didn't know about? created and built value all the

:13:47.:13:50.

time. The retail experience built value. Once that disappears on-line,

:13:50.:13:54.

it can go out of your mind, I think the thing about on-line buying is

:13:54.:13:58.

it is a really good way of buying things, and it is a really bad way

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of selling things. Bringing things to people's attention. That is your

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business there. I would hesitate to agree. There is more than just the

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choice of either going to a high street or going on-line that is

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happening here. If you think about the record industry, the topic we

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started with. Back 15 years ago in 1998, there were 175 million CDs

:14:17.:14:22.

bought in the UK. Last year there was 69 million bought in the UK,

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but 30 million downloads, that is barely half the number of the

:14:27.:14:30.

actual music sales of 15 years ago. Because the way we are actually

:14:30.:14:34.

listening is changing. We mentioned Spotify earlier on, people are

:14:34.:14:38.

sharing music, they are listening to it one time and not buying it

:14:38.:14:41.

any more. Where does the person go, either for the experience of

:14:41.:14:44.

opening the book or feeling what it look like or seeing the stuff. In

:14:44.:14:48.

other words, do you think a lot of bricks and mortar stores will be

:14:48.:14:53.

like showroom, where you don't actually take away the product, but

:14:53.:14:57.

you may order it on-line and try it out? By the time you have gone to a

:14:57.:15:00.

clothes shop, when you have tried on, there is your impulse buy, you

:15:00.:15:04.

want it there and then, you wouldn't go back and order it have

:15:04.:15:08.

it delivered later. But there is a clear distinction between those

:15:08.:15:12.

sorts of shops, where you can't actually do it on-line unless you

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trust implicitly in the seizing of your garment, and something that

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you can lisence -- seizing of your garden and something you with

:15:20.:15:27.

listen to. Shop centres are managed by managing the estate hole

:15:27.:15:33.

listically, the kaornbee Estate is managed by Shaftsbury, they own

:15:33.:15:38.

most of the properties on the estate, they managed it as an

:15:38.:15:42.

ecosystem very, very well, high street Kensington is much less well

:15:42.:15:45.

off, it is declining because you have a whole series of individuals

:15:45.:15:51.

not working together. The high street is a defined ecosystem, and

:15:51.:15:54.

co-ordination needs to be increased to manage it. People across the

:15:54.:15:56.

country, sometimes they complain that wherever you are, you get the

:15:56.:16:00.

same stores, one after another. You can almost predict where they will

:16:00.:16:04.

be. The high street itself is actually quite boring in some

:16:04.:16:09.

places? I always call it the "vanilla state", when you go to a

:16:09.:16:14.

town or city and think where am I, because it is the same. It is down

:16:14.:16:20.

to the councils. We have an amazing heritage, I go to Australia and the

:16:20.:16:24.

US a lot, they would kill for it. We have to make the towns come to

:16:24.:16:27.

light, we have to make sure the individual stores, the food and

:16:28.:16:32.

Beveridge, the socialisation, and other retails to go with it. It has

:16:32.:16:35.

to be about working hard to get consumer demand and keep consumers

:16:35.:16:39.

in store and sell to them. either of you think we could go

:16:39.:16:44.

down the American route, there are cities with fantastic individual

:16:44.:16:49.

shops, New York, and San Franciscos, there is a lot of place where is it

:16:49.:16:53.

is the same, the anchor store from a chain, and walking down the mall

:16:53.:16:57.

they are the same? We have 200 football pitches worth of out of

:16:57.:17:00.

town shopping at the moment in this country. That is a huge amount of

:17:00.:17:04.

out of town, I really hope we don't just go down that route. We have to

:17:04.:17:07.

start celebrating it, I don't think it is just about the retailer, the

:17:07.:17:10.

point you mentioned about retailers and communities working together is

:17:11.:17:14.

vital. We have to start pulling together, and stop talking about

:17:14.:17:19.

demise and finger pointing. Are we nothing talgic about it, we shop

:17:19.:17:22.

one way and think -- nostalgic about it, we shop one way and think

:17:22.:17:27.

another? I think so, if you listen in a restaurant to some music, --

:17:27.:17:36.

in a store and you can listen to music and buy it t if you can

:17:36.:17:41.

shazam it and buy it in a click, you don't worry about the price.

:17:41.:17:45.

Community is what drives the human spirit, not on-line, where is the

:17:45.:17:49.

record industry make money, through concerts, because you want peer-to-

:17:49.:17:54.

peer. Ironically the biggest growth in music revenues is not on-line,

:17:54.:17:58.

it is through physical experiences. If councils relaxed the music laws,

:17:58.:18:01.

which they have done, and allowed restaurants to play music, and

:18:01.:18:06.

where you are not allowed to dance, in Westminster two people moving

:18:06.:18:10.

rite mittically is called dancing, and -- rit mittically, and it is

:18:10.:18:13.

called dancing and tough stop. If we stopped the laws and maybe life

:18:13.:18:17.

would return to the high street. That goes back to the theatre point

:18:17.:18:23.

f you have to add something and you can't compete in price, you have to

:18:23.:18:30.

give something. You can, it is not like you have to go to Les

:18:31.:18:35.

Miserables, the apple store, Nike Town, a consumer brand on to the

:18:35.:18:40.

high street. And a steiny record shop called Bleaker Street in New

:18:40.:18:45.

York, you don't need all the expense. A balance has to be struck,

:18:45.:18:51.

the apple store works because you are not faced with a bewildering

:18:51.:18:56.

array of products, you are getting one thing. The megastore deal

:18:56.:19:00.

became very quickly overwhelming, you no longer felt warm about it,

:19:00.:19:03.

but vaguely ill. You were overchoiceed. Very briefly, what do

:19:03.:19:08.

you think the future is for the high street, is it shopping malls,

:19:08.:19:13.

on-line and a few nice niche retailers? There is an interesting

:19:13.:19:18.

thing we haven't spoken about, not the out of town malls but the

:19:18.:19:22.

Westfields, like in London, you are in a city but you have that

:19:22.:19:26.

environment around. That is true of Belfast? You have skating rinks,

:19:26.:19:31.

cinemas, you can have restaurants, bars, night life, the shops are

:19:31.:19:35.

almost the side show to the relationship building that goes on

:19:35.:19:38.

within that environment. I think that's almost like your town centre

:19:38.:19:43.

building up again. What do you think of it? I'm not sure it will

:19:43.:19:46.

happen in Wakefield and Peterborough, that is my feeling. I

:19:46.:19:50.

have no idea what will happen to the high street. I do feel that

:19:50.:19:56.

there will still be record stores and book stores, but they will be

:19:56.:20:00.

very targeted, boutiquesy, destination venues. For me it is a

:20:00.:20:03.

combination of all the channels put together and making sure the

:20:03.:20:08.

consumer gets the best choice, they are the most discerning than ever.

:20:08.:20:13.

We have to start delivering it. You will have tiny stores where you

:20:13.:20:18.

don't take it home on the day and they will deliver it to you. That

:20:18.:20:22.

sounds like internet shopping with a walk? With a touch and feel, you

:20:22.:20:26.

have to be still seduced by retail sometimes. One more place where the

:20:26.:20:29.

computer hasn't helped, this is a message to shopkeepers, just

:20:29.:20:32.

because there is a software programme where you can design your

:20:32.:20:36.

own shop front, doesn't mean to say you should. There are experts at

:20:36.:20:41.

that, that would help. We leave it there. Now, Israeli soldiers shot

:20:41.:20:45.

dead a 17-year-old Palestinian youth, near the barrier that

:20:45.:20:49.

separates West Bank towns and villages from areas occupied by

:20:49.:20:53.

Israel. It comes ahead of next week's Israeli elections, in which

:20:53.:21:01.

a new right-wing party, Jewish Home is riding high in the poll.

:21:01.:21:04.

Relations with Palestinians are only one part of the picture for

:21:04.:21:07.

many Israelis. Some think the biggest threat to the Jewish state

:21:07.:21:14.

comes from the fact that in large areas of Israel, Jews will become a

:21:14.:21:16.

minority. We report from the south of the

:21:16.:21:26.
:21:26.:21:32.

country, a place not flourishing as the state's founders had hoped. A

:21:32.:21:36.

wilderness the Prophet Isaiah promised would one day rejoice.

:21:36.:21:40.

Nearly 5,000 square miles of emptiness, and opportunity, in one

:21:40.:21:47.

of the world's most crowded countries. The state of Israel, to

:21:47.:21:53.

exist, its first Prime Minister said, must go south to the Negev.

:21:53.:21:59.

The desert is a great challenge to us, and we are determined to make

:21:59.:22:09.

the wilderness blossom again. It can be done. It must be done.

:22:09.:22:13.

Ben-Gurion set a personal example, he moved to the desert, and

:22:13.:22:22.

practised his skills as a shepherd. Today, in his old home, a new

:22:22.:22:25.

generation of Israel's defenders is learning about his vision. The

:22:25.:22:29.

Negev, he said, was where Jewish creativity and vigour would be

:22:30.:22:34.

tested. But 60 years on, the soldiers are told, his dream of

:22:34.:22:40.

five million Jews living and working in the desert hasn't yet

:22:40.:22:48.

come true. In places the desert is blooming. It is irgated, partly by

:22:48.:22:54.

water from the Mediterranean, and partly from underground aquafirs

:22:54.:22:58.

and the Sea of Galilee. The Negev, half of Israel's territory, still

:22:58.:23:02.

has fewer than 700,000 people, less than a tenth of the country's

:23:02.:23:08.

population of nearly eight million. It is a patchwork of Jewish and

:23:08.:23:14.

Arab communities. Could bed do you win Arabs, who was wandered the

:23:14.:23:18.

Negev for generations outnumber Jews here eventually, raising a

:23:18.:23:21.

question mark over the future of land that is internationally

:23:21.:23:27.

recognised as part of Israel. Some young Zionists think that is the

:23:27.:23:29.

greatest threat Israel faces. there was an empty space where

:23:29.:23:33.

nobody lives in it, somebody else will go and say this is mine, and

:23:33.:23:38.

this will be his, because nobody is wanting the land.

:23:38.:23:42.

The Negev, and Galilee, which together comprise 80% of Israel,

:23:42.:23:45.

have the country's highest proportion of non-Jewish citizens.

:23:46.:23:49.

In Galilee, more than half the population is Arab, in the Negev,

:23:49.:23:55.

the proportion is about a quarter. But Israel says the Negev Bedouin

:23:55.:23:58.

have the highest population growth in the world, doubling their

:23:58.:24:05.

numbers every 15 years. If we don't work fast we might find ourselves

:24:05.:24:10.

in a situation that is on the verge of a catastrophe, and 80% of our

:24:10.:24:14.

land that is not disputed today. For us it is getting back to what

:24:15.:24:19.

David Ben-Gurion said, that the real example of the Israeli people

:24:19.:24:23.

will be in the Negev. Yakir Keren is walking in Ben-Gurion's

:24:23.:24:27.

footsteps, he's one of a number of growing Israelis leaving the

:24:27.:24:33.

comfort of the centre of towns and cities to recapture the pioneering

:24:33.:24:37.

spirit of the early settlers of the To feel the brick and the sand, to

:24:37.:24:41.

build your own house, to plant your own tree to pave your own path,

:24:41.:24:45.

this is something that will get connected for you to the ground.

:24:45.:24:51.

One of the values of the Zionism, it says Hebrew labour, in which we

:24:51.:24:56.

have to build, with our own hands, the land of Israel. His youth

:24:56.:25:01.

movement, Ayalim, has been building student villages in the Negev and

:25:01.:25:06.

northern Israel. They are part of a wider revival of interest in

:25:06.:25:09.

Zionism and Jewish identity, they also stress that life in the desert

:25:09.:25:15.

is cheaper and less stressful than in Israel's overcrowded cities.

:25:15.:25:19.

Ayalim, though still a voluntary organisation, is now backed by the

:25:19.:25:29.

Israeli Government. They share the aim of juddaiising the Negev and

:25:29.:25:32.

djudaising the Negev and Galilee. It is not democratic to say, if we

:25:32.:25:41.

want to secure Israel as the Jewish state we have to populate T

:25:41.:25:47.

It is the bed do you win who regard them -- Bedouin who regard

:25:47.:25:52.

themselves as the masters of the desert. Those who hadn't fled when

:25:52.:25:56.

Israel was established became citizens of the state. Ben-Gurion

:25:56.:26:02.

noting Jews had once lived in tents, said he wished nothing more than

:26:02.:26:06.

the Bedouin could gain the best thing they have, knowledge.

:26:06.:26:15.

Today, in a college on the edge of the Negev, you can find a Bedouin

:26:15.:26:19.

PHd teaching signs to a mixture of Jews and Arabs from different

:26:19.:26:25.

backgrounds, a model, you would say of co-existence. When that

:26:25.:26:27.

chemistry lecturer, Awad Abu Freih, goes back to what he still thinks

:26:27.:26:31.

of as his home, where he used today live, as well as his father and

:26:31.:26:36.

grandfather before him, it is just to survey a pile of stones. It was

:26:36.:26:42.

very big, it was not one, but three, four. Four buildings. I want it cry

:26:42.:26:49.

when I see that, I want to just remember this field. The cemetery

:26:49.:26:53.

is all that remains now of his village, which has been demolished

:26:53.:26:58.

and rebuilt over and over again in the course of a lengthy legal

:26:58.:27:03.

battle. Over the hill is Rahat, where Dr Awad Abu Freih lives, one

:27:03.:27:08.

of several towns with modern services that Israel has built,

:27:08.:27:11.

specially for Bedouin, like many others, he doesn't want to live

:27:11.:27:18.

there. The new towns have high rates of crime and unemployment.

:27:18.:27:23.

Awad Abu Freih wants to have a farm, just like David Ben-Gurion did. But

:27:23.:27:28.

he says Jews find it easier than Bedouin to acquire land for

:27:28.:27:33.

agriculture. I want to live with sheep, or agricultural life. If I

:27:33.:27:41.

was Jewish, they would give me and give me the money. But because I am

:27:41.:27:43.

This is BBC News. The headlines: HMV is in the hands of

:27:43.:27:47.

called Awad and not Moshi, because administrators. 4,000 jobs are at

:27:47.:27:50.

I have a Bedouin name, and I'm not risk. The chief executive is

:27:50.:27:54.

hopeful of a rescue. Jewish the problem here is I am

:27:54.:27:57.

Traces of horsemeat found in Bedouin. And a few Jews in a big

:27:57.:28:00.

burgers made for British and Irish supermarkets.

:28:00.:28:02.

land. To put the Jewish in the A British Airways worker wins a

:28:02.:28:04.

Negev and concentrate it in a small discrimination claim after being

:28:04.:28:13.

told not to wear at cross at work. The Home Secretary approves a cut

:28:13.:28:23.
:28:23.:28:36.

in staff and salaries for all new Good evening. The chief executive

:28:36.:28:41.

of HMV says he is convinced there is a future for the business,

:28:41.:28:42.

land. We apologise for the lost of despite that going into

:28:42.:28:47.

administration. 4,000 jobs are at subtitles. This is a form of

:28:47.:28:48.

risk as pressure from supermarkets economic empowerment, together with

:28:48.:28:50.

and online competitors takes its parallel policies investing in

:28:50.:28:52.

toll. The high street chain has education and in healthcare, and

:28:52.:28:55.

stopped accepting gift vouchers. It other aspects of the Bedouin

:28:55.:28:59.

infrastructure, we hope, will bring was established 90 years ago. The

:28:59.:29:04.

the bed dough win into -- Bedouin first HMV store. This has been here

:29:04.:29:06.

into the mainstream. Nearly half for the best part of a century and

:29:06.:29:08.

the Negev Bedouin live in is still trading on Oxford Street

:29:08.:29:11.

unrecognised settlements. Which today. They are no longer accepting

:29:11.:29:16.

gift vouchers. They accepted the money when you buy the vouchers.

:29:16.:29:23.

That is despicable. A worthless Christmas gift. If they are still

:29:23.:29:27.

trading and people have paid good money for the vouchers, they should

:29:27.:29:32.

not be able to do that. HMV said the vouchers were sold in good

:29:32.:29:39.

faith. The boss also told me that he believes the firm can survive.

:29:39.:29:45.

I came here four months ago to drive a viable future for the team,

:29:45.:29:55.
:29:55.:30:09.

not to shut the business down. I (we apologise for the loss of

:30:09.:30:13.

subtitles) Ayalim volunteers are trying to forge links between Jews

:30:13.:30:19.

and Arabs in the Negev. They set up this greenhouse in a Bedouin school,

:30:19.:30:24.

where they are teaching children the Rudiments of horticulture. It

:30:24.:30:31.

is a learning process for both sides. For me it is the first time

:30:31.:30:36.

I get in a Bedouin village, I live here all my life and I haven't got

:30:36.:30:40.

here. It is a great opportunity for me to get familiar with another

:30:40.:30:47.

culture that is really, really close to where I live. But other

:30:47.:30:51.

Jewish activists in the Negev are working with Bedouin in a more

:30:51.:30:54.

political way. Liberals who believe they are trying to preserve the

:30:54.:30:58.

country's original values, in the face of what many see as a drift in

:30:58.:31:04.

public opinion towards the right. This is a meeting hosted by the

:31:04.:31:09.

Negev co-cyst tense forum, which campaigns -- Negev Coexistence

:31:09.:31:13.

Forum, which campaigns for greater understanding between the citizens.

:31:13.:31:19.

Today they are trying to think of ways to help one village threatened

:31:19.:31:25.

with distinction. Activists like Ofer Dagan, who

:31:25.:31:31.

spends much of his dime in Bedouin villages, questions the whole basis

:31:31.:31:39.

of the Government's policy. To say we have to occupy the Bedouin lands

:31:39.:31:43.

to secure the Jewish state is not true. It may serve the purpose of

:31:43.:31:47.

making it a Jewish state, for sure it won't be a democratic state. The

:31:47.:31:52.

danger that is already happening, is the Bedouin society is gradually

:31:52.:31:58.

losing their faith in the authority of the state. We are starting to

:31:58.:32:05.

see a few violent incidents between Bedouin people, which are, most of

:32:05.:32:09.

the time, a very peaceful and patient people, with the

:32:09.:32:17.

authorities of the state. legacy of Ben-Gurion, who wanted a

:32:17.:32:25.

Jewish democratic state, at peace with its neighbours, is ambiguous.

:32:25.:32:29.

After paying homeage at his grave, these young soldiers will return to

:32:29.:32:34.

their duties on Israel's borders, and in the Occupied Territories.

:32:34.:32:37.

But many in Israel no longer believe that peace with the

:32:37.:32:44.

Palestinians will come soon, if ever. That's why, with elections

:32:44.:32:49.

aing next week, a bigger issue for some are the widening tensions

:32:49.:32:54.

within the country. Between liberals and a more assertive,

:32:54.:32:57.

nationalist right-wing, between secular Jews and a rapidly growing

:32:57.:33:02.

number of ultra orthodox, and enof tablely between Jewish and Arab

:33:02.:33:07.

citizens. Talking about the Palestinian issue,

:33:07.:33:11.

pushes away the bigger issues of dealing with things that are

:33:11.:33:16.

happening inside the society. Until we start dealing with what happens

:33:16.:33:20.

inside the Israeli society, including issues with Israeli Arabs,

:33:20.:33:25.

I think the chances of doing something from the outside are

:33:25.:33:33.

smaller. How can we expect Israeli people to deal with a big issue

:33:34.:33:37.

like creating two countries here, when they are not even sure that 20

:33:37.:33:41.

years from today they will have a country of their own.

:33:41.:33:47.

Government, before they think about the peace between Abbas and between

:33:47.:33:51.

the Palestinians and the West Bank, or in Gaza between Israel, they

:33:51.:33:57.

have to make a peace inside. OK, the Jewish state, we were here,

:33:57.:34:01.

what about us? What about us? Now forget the Palestinians, I don't

:34:01.:34:06.

want to think about Gaza and the West Bank, I was here, all the time.

:34:06.:34:16.

I want to stay here. 60 years after Ben-Gurion said the Negev would be

:34:16.:34:22.

a testing ground, it's wide open -- it's wide open spaces have indeed

:34:22.:34:25.

become a laboratory for agricultural and scientific

:34:25.:34:34.

creativity, they are not yet a laboratory for peace. Now, it looks

:34:34.:34:38.

as if the Government may be in for a prolonged row with teaching

:34:38.:34:42.

unions in England after the news today it will press ahead with

:34:42.:34:47.

plans to link pay to performance. The core of the plan is for annual

:34:47.:34:52.

appraisals of teaching performance to be linked to annual Sally levies,

:34:52.:34:55.

decided by each school. For most teachers annual pay rises are

:34:55.:35:01.

automatic. The unions say the plan is a move away from national pay

:35:01.:35:05.

structures and it will lower morale and make recruitment in some

:35:05.:35:12.

schools especially difficult. We will debate how it will affect

:35:12.:35:15.

children with two head teachers. First we examine what is at stake.

:35:15.:35:23.

For some time now, the rule for new teachers has been where X is

:35:23.:35:32.

equalising this year's pay, and Y is next year's pay, X is equal to

:35:32.:35:37.

1.0Xs Y, now that is changing. Pay for new teachers, like that for

:35:38.:35:41.

their experiences colleagues, will depend on their classroom

:35:41.:35:45.

performance, and in particular the views of one man or woman, the

:35:45.:35:49.

headteacher or another member of the school leadership team. That is

:35:49.:35:53.

welcomed by some teacher. Alistair Wood is only 27, he is already head

:35:53.:35:58.

of economics at a secondary school. I see myself as a practitioner

:35:58.:36:05.

developing all the time. You -- I need to improve year on year, there

:36:05.:36:10.

is no year I wouldn't hope to get better. If there was an instance

:36:10.:36:15.

where I wasn't getting better, I wouldn't expect to be rewarded, if

:36:15.:36:18.

my performance of the same, I would expect to be rewarded in a similar

:36:18.:36:24.

fashion, and not almost get rewarded for not progressing.

:36:24.:36:28.

year's review quoted a survey of teachers' pay, which showed over

:36:29.:36:35.

98% of teachers, on the main scale, that is in their first six years in

:36:35.:36:37.

the profession, receive those annual increases. 45% of teachers

:36:37.:36:41.

at the top of that main pay scale applied for the upper pay scale,

:36:41.:36:45.

and over 90% of those were successful.

:36:45.:36:50.

While we have kept the main pay bands, we have made it much simple

:36:50.:36:57.

letter to move up them, and we are also -- simpler to move up them,

:36:57.:37:02.

and allowing senior teachers to be put to the upper band if they want

:37:02.:37:06.

to remain in the classroom. There is a pay structure for those who

:37:06.:37:09.

want to teach and not part of the management structure. It is not

:37:09.:37:13.

just your capacity to teach but your capacity not to reward? It is

:37:13.:37:17.

the capacity to discriminate, and without the current problem in the

:37:17.:37:20.

system, which is all you can do is fire somebody. That can't be right.

:37:20.:37:24.

We have all been through periods in our life where we have been better

:37:24.:37:30.

or worse and needed professional support. It should be possible to

:37:30.:37:37.

manage pay across the sector, more sensitively, according to need. Lg

:37:37.:37:41.

Forget beautiful buildings, it is the quality of teaching that makes

:37:41.:37:46.

a real difference to how well children learn, does performance-

:37:46.:37:50.

related-pay improve teaching, the evidence is mixed? We know that one

:37:50.:37:55.

of the problems with performance- related-pay for teachers, or any

:37:55.:37:58.

performance measurement for teachers, is teaching to the test.

:37:58.:38:02.

Essentially you focus on what's measured, what is measured gets

:38:02.:38:06.

done, and other things get ignored. That means you want, if you are

:38:06.:38:12.

going to have performance-related- pay, a holistic measure of pupil

:38:13.:38:16.

attainment, and of pupil performance. That is going to be

:38:16.:38:20.

difficult to do, but it is not impossible to do that.

:38:20.:38:24.

Education Secretary, Michael Gove, has said these measures will allow

:38:24.:38:29.

schools to recruit better teachers. The main teaching union, the NUT,

:38:29.:38:34.

has said members will be dismayed, and it will be a blow to already

:38:34.:38:38.

lowered morale, they say performance related pay is

:38:38.:38:42.

fundamentally inappropriate for teaching. Even those who support

:38:42.:38:46.

this in principle, say changing attitudes across all schools in

:38:46.:38:52.

England and Wales, may be tricky. What are the problems? It lies

:38:52.:38:58.

mainly I think at a leadership level, it needs to be, if these

:38:58.:39:04.

responsibility and authorities - this authority is given to head

:39:04.:39:07.

teachers, teachers need to be confident the decision will be

:39:07.:39:12.

sound and fair. The implementation is complicated. You can't go from a

:39:12.:39:18.

straight chain from one system to another. It needs to be gradual.

:39:18.:39:23.

Kenney Frederick is headteacher at George Green's School on the eye of

:39:23.:39:30.

dogs, and we have the principal of Nunthorpe Academy. Obviously there

:39:30.:39:36.

are lots of great teachers, it will be astounding to many parents that

:39:36.:39:41.

98% of teachers get a rise on the main scale whether or not they are

:39:41.:39:44.

any good? It isn't like, that you have to get through your NQT year,

:39:45.:39:48.

it is a difficult year, where you are assessed constantly. If you

:39:48.:39:52.

don't pass that year you don't actually get a job. About But 98%

:39:52.:39:56.

move on to the next pay scale per year? At the moment there is up to

:39:56.:40:00.

M6, you can move year after year. And you are not talking about huge

:40:00.:40:06.

amounts of money. I have over 100 teachers, and you know, the

:40:07.:40:15.

majority. Isn't it 8% of pay every year that you get as an increase?

:40:15.:40:19.

don't know the amount, it is not a huge amount. The teacher, when you

:40:19.:40:22.

go into the classroom you are not a born teacher, you have to learn to

:40:22.:40:26.

be a teacher and experience, if you are well trained and well developed,

:40:26.:40:30.

the performance in the classroom will be much better. If it is not.

:40:30.:40:33.

The point is, the great teach remembers not the problem, what do

:40:33.:40:37.

you do about the small minority, of not so good teachers, you can get

:40:37.:40:42.

rid of them. But only 17 out of 400,000 over ten years, that

:40:42.:40:45.

doesn't work, what do you do to incentivise them, you don't pay

:40:45.:40:49.

them that much? I don't think the pay makes the difference, teachers

:40:49.:40:52.

don't come into it for the money, they go into other industries for

:40:52.:40:55.

that. You come into teaching for different reasons. If you haven't

:40:55.:40:59.

got a teacher who isn't doing very well, there is an awful lot of work

:40:59.:41:02.

that goes on. We are very accountable, every teacher and

:41:02.:41:05.

every school is accountable, everything you do is measured to

:41:05.:41:09.

every degree. You put a lot of work into people and you help them to

:41:09.:41:12.

develop, because they have to be good teachers. Let me bring in

:41:12.:41:15.

Debbie Clinton, you heard that argument and also that the teaching

:41:15.:41:18.

unions are saying, essentially, far from improving standards, there is

:41:18.:41:22.

a risk of actually damaging children's education, how do you

:41:22.:41:26.

see it? I think it is a tremendous opportunity for the profession to

:41:26.:41:31.

catch up with other professions. One of the concerns that is being

:41:31.:41:35.

voiced currently, and of also raised during the introductory item,

:41:35.:41:39.

was the worry over individual power to head teachers and principals.

:41:39.:41:44.

Pay is awarded by governing bodies and board of directors not

:41:44.:41:48.

individual head teachers, the wore a concerns that are rightly being

:41:48.:41:53.

expressed are actually founded in, I think, quite ill-informed facts.

:41:53.:41:58.

Pay awards are given, ultimately by boards of governors. What do you

:41:58.:42:04.

make of the argument, we heard it said by the NUT, that it will

:42:04.:42:06.

dismantle the national pay structure and it will be difficult

:42:06.:42:11.

for schools in deprived areas who will struing to recruit staff.

:42:11.:42:18.

These are fears -- struggle to recruit staff, these are legitimate

:42:18.:42:23.

concerns? The academy movement has been great in England, including in

:42:23.:42:26.

deprived areas, including mine in Middlesborough. The evidence is

:42:26.:42:29.

exactly the opposite. When pay freedoms are given to principal,

:42:29.:42:33.

and boards of governors, the recruitment problems they

:42:33.:42:38.

previously had are, not immediately removed, but certainly they are

:42:38.:42:42.

very much helped. Just in practice, what would you be worried about,

:42:42.:42:46.

presumably you know, and every headteacher knows who is doing well,

:42:46.:42:51.

who need help, who isn't doing so well, you would be able to make the

:42:51.:42:54.

decisions who gets more pay and who doesn't, is there something about

:42:54.:42:58.

the implementation of it that does worry? Lots of issues, who will

:42:58.:43:03.

teach the hardest to teach youngsters? I would be very worried

:43:03.:43:05.

that people would be resisting teaching youngsters with special

:43:05.:43:09.

needs, where it is harder to move them on. Youngsters who are absent

:43:09.:43:12.

a lot. Youngster who is don't have the support. How do you, for

:43:12.:43:16.

instance, if you are in a school in a nice middle-class area, where lot

:43:16.:43:19.

of your students are having one-to- one tuition at home, where the

:43:19.:43:23.

parents are paying for that, how do you know the affect, is it the

:43:23.:43:28.

teacher that's made the difference, is it the personal tutor. In a

:43:28.:43:32.

school such as mine, some of the youngsters will have one-to-one

:43:32.:43:37.

tuition. It is actually trying to prove, what's the causal affect,

:43:37.:43:41.

why has that youngster done well. We measure every teacher, every

:43:41.:43:45.

pupil, at every moment, we know where youngsters are progressing,

:43:45.:43:49.

with what teacher and so on. We work on that and we try to learn

:43:49.:43:53.

from each other. The best way to improve teaching, is by teachers

:43:53.:43:57.

collaborating together, working to the, and sharing good practice. I

:43:57.:44:00.

think that this could be a difficulty in that, at the moment,

:44:00.:44:04.

pay is transparent, and I don't want people coming to my school

:44:04.:44:09.

because I'm going to pay them more. Debbie, it could be, in other words,

:44:09.:44:13.

devisive in the staff room, is part of it, quite tricky to implement,

:44:13.:44:18.

what do you make of that? I don't agree with that. Alastair, the

:44:18.:44:22.

young teacher in the introductory article made the most valid point.

:44:23.:44:29.

Teachers have an obligation, as do school leaders, by the way, to

:44:29.:44:32.

continually develop, yes there will be years when one develops really

:44:32.:44:36.

well, and years where one is less effective at doing that. The most

:44:36.:44:40.

important point in this for us as a nation and profession, is to

:44:40.:44:47.

recognise, as the Finns and in sing support they have done, is that we

:44:47.:44:51.

need to encourage the best possible people to come into our profession,

:44:51.:44:54.

that is not currently the case, sadly. Thank you. Tomorrow

:44:54.:45:04.
:45:04.:45:37.

That's it for tonight, I'm back tomorrow with more in the lead up

:45:37.:45:40.

to David Cameron's big speech on Europe, planned for Friday.

:45:40.:45:50.
:45:50.:46:14.

Good night. Widespread frost tonight and patchy fog to take it

:46:14.:46:20.

into the morning. Temperature could be as low as minus 10-12. A

:46:20.:46:24.

relatively quiet day. Snow flurries in the east of Kent. We start

:46:24.:46:27.

frost-free, but there could be rain later. For much of England it will

:46:27.:46:32.

be a dry day, some fog lingering around the Thames Valley. Most

:46:32.:46:36.

having a dry day. Snow flurries limited, eastern Kent could see

:46:37.:46:39.

them throughout. A few showers running through the English Channel

:46:40.:46:43.

into south eastern parts of Devon. Rain and sleet on the coast, maybe

:46:43.:46:48.

snow on the south of Dartmoor. It is only a chance, much of south-

:46:48.:46:53.

west England to have a bright day, hazy sunshine, early morning rain

:46:53.:46:58.

in Cornwall. It stays cloudy in Northern Ireland, temperatures only

:46:58.:47:06.

hoovering around 3-4, don't be -- hovering around 3-4, don't be

:47:06.:47:16.
:47:16.:47:24.

As HMV prepares for administration, what is the future for the high street? Plus, the population race in Israel's Negev desert, and should teachers get performance related pay? With Gavin Esler.


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