Browse content similar to 22/05/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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An atros $:/STARTFEED. An atrocity in broad daylight, leaves a man, | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
believed to be a British soldier, dead in London. We have had these | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
sorts of attacks in our country. We never buckle in the face of them. | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
At the heart of this story an apparent statement from a suspect | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
who sounds like one of us, trying to justify killing in Britain to a | :00:32. | :00:38. | |
cause thousands of miles away. Some of you might find the content of | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
these pictures both offensive and upsetting. I apologise that people | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
find this upsetting, in our land this happens every day. Remove your | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
movement, they don't care about you. What can we learn about what | :00:51. | :00:58. | |
happened today in Woolich? Also tonight ...A Kiss for the | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
bride please. We marry for love, so why is marriage or any other | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
romantic arrangement of our lives any business of politicians. It is | :01:06. | :01:16. | |
nothing to do with the Government at all. Why they want to poke their | :01:16. | :01:26. | |
:01:26. | :01:27. | ||
noses in! I don't know! Few news events honestly merit the word | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
"shocking", but this afternoon's meat cleaver murder of what is | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
believed to be an off-duty soldier in East London does. The fact that | :01:35. | :01:42. | |
his killer then danced around his body shouting "good is great" and | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
inviting photographs, and add a further dimension. That one ranted | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
in a London street trying to justify the atrocity, aggravates | :01:50. | :01:58. | |
the eaves and the offence given. The Home Secretary tonight has | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
condemned what she said is probably an act of terrorism. The | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
Metropolitan Police commissioner says they have launched a murder | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
inquiry. Bizarrely just yesterday I was speaking to somebody in the | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
world of counter terrorism who told me that when they were looking at | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
the Olympics they had considered the possibility of a stabbing on a | :02:16. | :02:22. | |
train, as he put it, by a militant. He said it was our nightmare | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
scenario we could do nothing possibly to stop a thing like that. | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
Today it would seem that kind of scenario unfolded on the streets of | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
Woolich as you have said, some of the images that came out of it may | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
be disturbing to some people. must fight them as they fight us, | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I apologise that women had | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
to witness this today, in our hand our women have to see the same. | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
This is the man who attempts to justify murder, while apologising | :02:50. | :02:56. | |
that women had to witness it. Shocking footage taken by a | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
passerby on their mobile phone. The attack was at 2.20, a man walking | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
up the street of knocked down by this blue car that had mounted the | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
pavement. The two occupants got out and started to stab and bludgeon | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
the victim with a variety of knives and a meat cleaver. Hours later | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
heavy blood stains on the pavement still marked the site of the | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
murderous assault. Once the victim was dead or dying his body was | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
dragged into the road. I was on the bus coming into Woolich and I saw a | :03:30. | :03:36. | |
man lying motion lesson the floor. And there was a car with this body, | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
so I thought it had been a road traffic collision. I got off the | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
bus and walked around to another viewpoint where the body was | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
covered up. There was a huge police presence, helicopters in the air. | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
The two men, alleged to have attacked him, made no attempt to | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
flee. Instead they started talking to shocked bystanders. Some people | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
tried to help the victim, while just feet away a man with blood | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
stained hands made political statements to those nearby of the | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
Remove your Government, they don't care about you, do you think David | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
Cameron will get caught in the street when we start bussing our | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
gun, do you think our politician also die, no it will be the average | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
guy like you. Local police were on the scene quickly, it is clear they | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
had to wait for armed officers to arrive, prolonging the bloody | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
theatre as the perpetrators harangued local people. Witnesses | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
suggest that once the armed police were there, the attackers rushed | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
them. Two men, who we believed from earlier reports to be carrying | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
weapons were shot by police. They have both been taken to separate | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
London hospitals and are receiving treatment for their injuries. | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
pictures show the attackers, who, moments earlier, had been shouting | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
Islamist slogans, lying wounded in the street. Get back, get back! | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
Move back! Tonight there were fears in community about tensions. | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
Nothing has ever happened like this in Woolich before. I think there | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
are lots of different communities that live in Woolich. I think some | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
people will use this as a reason to attack these, this community that | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
has done this to this man. Even as the assaliants were taken to | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
hospital, the cabinet, emergency committee, COBRA was being summoned | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
under the chairmanship of Theresa May, where it heard reports from | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
the police and Security Service. The Prime Minister, meanwhile, who | :05:28. | :05:34. | |
was on the continent for talks, made this statement in Paris. | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
Tonight our thoughts should be with the victim, with their family, with | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
their friends. People across Britain, people in every community, | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
I believe, will utterly condemn this attack. We have had these | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
sorts of attacks before in our country, and we never buckle in the | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
face of them. The scene in Woolich is the subject now of intense | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
investigation. But there will be other lines of inquiry being | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
pursued tonight. Did the attackers act alone? And had they, at some | :06:04. | :06:10. | |
point, been under official surveillance? Our correspondent | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
Richard Watson has for many years reported on terrorism and extremism | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
in the UK. He's here now. Do you know anything about this suspect? | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
Well none of this is confirmed at this stage. But about an hour-and- | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
a-half ago I received a very interesting phone call from a | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
source who knows the British Jihadi scene very well. This source said | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
that one of the attackers was Nigerian in origin, and has been | :06:33. | :06:40. | |
living in the UK for many year. He was radicalised by the Islamist | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
group Alma haj roon in 2003. Now most controversially he suggested | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
to me that just last year this young man was stopped or arrested, | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
we don't know which at the moment, on his way to join Al-Shabab in | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
Somalia. We can't confirm that at the moment, but that is what I have | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
been told tonight. If that was true he would be obviously known to the | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
police? That is the suggestion, yes. That is remaining unconfirmed. If | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
he is known to the police, of course, we open up the territory of | :07:11. | :07:19. | |
what did they know about Mohammed Sadique Khan back in 2005, it opens | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
up this territory. This attack, shocking, horrific, very different | :07:24. | :07:31. | |
in character to something like the 7/7 attack? Very different. It is | :07:31. | :07:41. | |
:07:41. | :07:43. | ||
hard to say with certainty. If you look at 7/7, tribal areas and | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
Mohammed Khan went out there for training. This appears to be a much | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
more discreet attack from lone wolves, who seem to have taken it | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
upon themselves to carry out this attack radicalised, possibly, by | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
the Internet. We don't know. Let's speak to the former Home Secretary | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
Lord Reid, and Lord Carlyle, the independent reviewer of anti- | :08:04. | :08:11. | |
terrorism legislation from 2001- 2011, and Nawaz, a former member of | :08:11. | :08:19. | |
an Islamist organisation, who later founded a Quilliam Foundation, a | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
counter extremist think-tank. This was shocking but entirely | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
unexpected this sort of attack? know we are under a "substantial" | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
threat, we know that. We know that there have been a huge number of | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
plots in the fast, foiled successfully by the security forces | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
by and large. And we also know there has been a change from just | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
being centrally determined and controlled attacks throughout the | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
world, to more of what Richard Wilson called Lone Wolf attacks. It | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
makes it much more difficult for the Security Services. They tend to | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
require less time and planning. They are more ad hoc, more | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
opportunist, there is less communication data going back | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
across the world. There is less contact. And therefore, they are | :09:01. | :09:08. | |
more difficult to counter in a way. The sense that Mumbai in a sense | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
was that sort of attack. If this is one of these Lone Wolf attacks then | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
it is pretty difficult to counter. Although Mumbai actually did, if I | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
recall correctly, there was evidence of control from Pakistan? | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
There was. The big plot that, thankfully we foiled here in 2006, | :09:28. | :09:37. | |
which was the liquid bomb plot to bring down seven airliners with | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
2,500 potential deaths, there was certainly contact internationally. | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
That makes it easier to foil than a spontaneous attack without those | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
communication links. Your reaction? My reaction is first of all this is | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
a tragic event and our hearts must go out to the family of the man who | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
was killed. Secondly, I think this is the kind of attack which, | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
because of Mumbai, we have been predicting for quite a time in this | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
country. The control authorities, the police and Security Service, | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
have been working very hard to prevent it. I think we have to | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
learn proportionate lesson from what has occur, we mustn't rush to | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
judgment. We must ensure the police and the Security Service have for | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
the future the tools they need, which will enable them to prevent | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
it kind of attack taking place. I hope this will give the Government | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
pause for thought about their abandonment, for example, of the | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
communications data bill, and possibly pause for thought about | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
converting control orders into what are now called TPIMs, with a | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
diluted set of powers. You are not suggesting either of those things | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
had anything to do with today's attack? I'm not suggesting that, | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
but I'm suggesting that the powers that existed in the past make it | :10:51. | :10:57. | |
more likely that other attacks can be prevented in the future. Lone | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
wolves, even though they are always inevitably connected at least with | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
internet training, are very difficult to catch. So we must give | :11:05. | :11:13. | |
the authorities proportionate tools to catch them. Maajid Nawaz, what | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
really strikes you about this attack today? What strikes me about | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
this attack is in fact the way in which, so much of it was theatre. | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
So much was them standing around after speaking to members of the | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
public. To not only justify their actions but speaking to the cameras | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
with a view to knowing the police were on their way. Almost in a | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
fatalistic sense wanting to be caught so they could have a form of | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
a show trial. Orderly you would expect that something is thinking | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
in a strategic way would retreat or come back to attack again, as the | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
Boston bombers attempted to do. These individual wanted it to be | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
about show. What I would say here, because we have heard reports of | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
members of certain far right movements seeking to move to the | :11:53. | :12:00. | |
area, and seeking vengence, first thing, a lot has changed since 7/7. | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
One of the things that has changed is certain organisations we were | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
rather dissatisfied in the past, in the way that they almost didn't | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
condemn terrorist attacks, but instead started to focus in foreign | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
policy have in this instance come forward and condemned the terrorism | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
with no ifs and buts. The scene has changed among Muslim community | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
groups, that is very important. is striking when you hear this guy | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
speak, a guy speaking in a London accent about things happening in | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
"our" country, I don't know which country he's talking about? This is | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
very weird? This is the role we keep talking about that ideology | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
plays. Where we have failed abysmaly in this country, in | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
popularising counter narratives to this ideology that completely | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
disconnects people, someone clearly speaking in London accent, and | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
clearly killing one of his own citizens, and for a country he has | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
never visited, and he has more affinity to people in another | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
country than his own citizens. We need to popularising a counter | :13:07. | :13:16. | |
narrative, and stopping this narrative of making Islam unpopular | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
asism. I think the responsibility falls on Government to try to help | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
create the counter narrative. The Internet has become a very powerful | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
tool. One can learn how to make a bomb, unfor the that thely, on the | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
Internet, one -- unfortunately on the Internet, one can listen to | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
sermons on the interin the. We are not very good as a nation at | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
creating a counter narrative that the goodies maybe win sometimes. | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
What would that be like? There is a unit in Government, John Reid will | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
know about it, that is designated to examine the Internet and try to | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
help produce a counter narrative. It is the sort of thing that makes | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
young men who may want to be radicalised as keen to look at a | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
couldn'try view and counter picture as the terrorist narrative. First | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
of all, at heart this is an ideolgical battle, this is not | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
about Islam, it is about Islamism, the "ism" is the giveaway. It is | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
the political imposition of people's will, through violence, | :14:16. | :14:25. | |
through the use of a corruption of Islam. They have a narrative the | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
basically Al-Qaeda narrative that blames the west for everything, and | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
sees it as an anti-Muslim movement. We have not had an adequate | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
narrative that explains the virtues of the society and the values on | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
which they are based. Arising out of that narrative has to be action. | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
This is the point I would make about tonight's news that others | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
are arranging counter demonstrations. The purpose of this | :14:46. | :14:53. | |
action is not just to destroy life today, it is not even just to | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
propagandaise, it is to terrorise and disrupt the normal flow of life | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
in this country. Those who seek to attack other communities as a | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
result of this will be carrying out precisely the sort of division and | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
disruption of British way of life, away from our communal | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
collecttivity that the terrorists seek to enhance in the first place. | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
So those who might think that they are, you know, attacking the | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
terrorists by marching through a Muslim community or whatever, are | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
actually following the path of the strategy the terrorists would like | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
to see. I think it is very important we should hear senior | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
Muslim leaders decribing the kind of opinions that were expressed on | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
that clip as a heresy, and that it does not represent Muslim views in | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
this country. Which is right isn't it? It doesn't represent anybody, | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
they are a bizarre minority, but we must have this loadership? | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
One of my colleagues was speaking to somebody earlier who said he had | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
been speaking to some young Muslims this evening who were pleased at | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
what had happened? We are finding any young Muslim who is angry the | :15:57. | :16:04. | |
default, political expression that is currently out this there is -- | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
there is this perversion of Islam, the challenge we have is to replace | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
that default. When you ask what the counter narrative looks like, there | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
are ideas, leaders and symbols, if I ask you to think about the ideas, | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
the narratives and leaders and symbols for Al-Qaeda-based | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
extremism you can ease low think of them. Think of the equivalent in | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
the Middle East for democratic active, who are the leaders, ideas | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
and symbols in the Middle East you are hard pressed to see them. | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
low because there is very little democracy there? And partly because | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
the civil society activism involved is stifled. People are not able to | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
express as much as they should be. We need to do more in that regard. | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
Increased drone strike, targeted assassinations, more Guantanamos, | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
the military option isn't the bee all and end you will solution. It | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
is a short-term stopgap. We need to start focusing on the ideas debate | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
and reclaiming and rebranding democratic culture among young | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
disenfranchised Muslims. Let as turn quickly to what's likely to be | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
happening now. You have sat in Theresa May's chair? Too often I | :17:11. | :17:18. | |
fear. There was a meeting of COBRA, the cabinet committee today. That | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
was going on for some time, at the end of which it was determined it | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
was a form of terrorist attack. We understand that. What happens next? | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
Well the first thing that happens is to establish the facts. The Home | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
Secretary will be surrounded by her specialists, because the Home | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
Secretary does not run these operations in a democracy. They are | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
run by the police and Intelligence Service and so on. But she is | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
accountable to the public and parliament. She has to ascertain | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
the facts. Secondly she will be asking the questions as to whether | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
anything else needs to be done, are there connections, are there other | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
suspects, is there another threat from a group linked to this. | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
Thirdly, about the Ministry of Defence, I'm sure Philip Hammond | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
was there. If it was a soldier who was tragically murdered today, our | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
thoughts would be with his family and, if it was, what is the | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
security like at specific areas targeted for soldiers and so on. | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
And then there is a question about whether you need to raise the | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
national threat level from "substantial "up to perhaps as high | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
as "critical". I don't think that is likely but that will be | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
considered. If that is then raised as a result of that there is all | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
sorts of operational ratchetting up of defence measures. All of that | :18:32. | :18:38. | |
will be done in the first instance. Then they will turn their mind to | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
some of the wider questions, hopefully, which is not only the | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
investigations that are being carried out, but the questions like | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
the nature of radicalisation of British people, the narrative that | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
we talked about, you know. That is an on going process. How alarming | :18:55. | :19:01. | |
are the unknowns? They are always alarming, I chaired this meeting, | :19:01. | :19:08. | |
COBRA meeting, not only through terrorism, but through Litvenenko, | :19:08. | :19:18. | |
and so on. There are always, to use one of the words of an American | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
secretary, the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns. In some of | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
the cases I was involved in we thought we had a pretty good grasp | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
for a while of the number and nature of the people involved, only | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
to discover late in the day there weren't six from this area there | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
was as many as 20 from another area. That is where some of the measures | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
which the Government has refused to implement, like data communications | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
that were mentioned earlier, is absolutely essential for effective | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
fighting of terrorism. I mean we, you will never find out whether you | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
are right on this one until there is some huge tragedy that might | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
have been averted if they had updated the communications | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
appraisals a that can be carried out from GCHQ. This is a very | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
important point. We must have proportionate laws, but there must | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
be laws that are sufficient to meet need. When they see an example, | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
this may be a small example of something much bigger that could | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
happen, we must ensure the laws are fit for purpose. But we don't know | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
whether that sort of interception of communications, monitoring of | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
communications would have made any difference at all? But we do know | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
it is extremely effective in catching organised criminals, | :20:30. | :20:37. | |
murders and others, we know it is works, it is working in court up | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
and down the country. Six or seven years ago had we not had that | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
method of connecting people through their "communications", 2,500 | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
people would probably have been blown out of the sky over the UK. | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
It was a vital component. But now people have moved on from mobile | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
phones to internet, e-mail, text and Skype, we don't have the means | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
of doing what we did six years ago. Thank you all very much. | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
We will return to this story a little later in the programme. | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
Now from hate to love. In all the noise about gay marriage these past | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
few days, the bigger phenomenon, hell sexual marriage has been | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
rather overlooked. It is, we are told, the basic building block of | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
the state. Vital for the secure upbringing of children, and an | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
institution in trouble, which almost all political parties claim | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
to be keen to support. Should it be privileged over other types of | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
family life? Before we talk it over we have this report and we begin | :21:36. | :21:43. | |
with the question every couple get asked, "how did you two meet"? | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
The moment you met? Moment, that is a bit hard to say, I walked across | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
the floor and asked my wife for a dance. Asked me for a dance, and I | :21:52. | :22:02. | |
said "I don't think so", no I didn't, I did say I would! I I had | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
to warn her about her small dresses in the shop I used to run. He said | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
I was showing too much leg and I would give the customers a heart | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
attack! The tendency in those days was to grab the first female that | :22:14. | :22:21. | |
you could. I gave her a kiss on New Year's Eve. So I know exactly to | :22:21. | :22:27. | |
the second when that happened. we just kissed and that was it. We | :22:27. | :22:37. | |
:22:37. | :22:40. | ||
just...Within A month I knew this was going to be the one. | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
# I remember how I thrilled at the sight of you | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
If you want to understand married life, you need to come to East | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
Dorset. Two thirds of adults here are married. The highest proportion | :22:53. | :23:02. | |
in all of England and Wales. Are you nervous? Not at the moment, I'm | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
OK at the moment. Kayleigh Wallis is surprisingly calm. Maybe that's | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
because, like many brides, she already lives with the groom, and | :23:12. | :23:20. | |
they have had a baby together. Do you think you now feel something | :23:20. | :23:26. | |
has fundamentally changed? Yes. What is that? It feels like you | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
have found the missing piece. Connected in a way. Another way of | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
connecting and feeling closer. bonds you together more. You are | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
standing up in front of all your friend and family to say I'm | :23:37. | :23:46. | |
committed to this relationship. kiss for the bride, please. | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
Marriage has been in decline for decades. Roughly half the number of | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
people get married today compared to 1970. 42% of marriages end in | :23:57. | :24:04. | |
divorce. But the number of people cohabiting has increased | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
dramatically since 1979. Today one in six people cohabit. In terms of | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
break-ups involving children, fewer than one in ten married couples | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
will split up by their first child's fifth birthday. For | :24:18. | :24:27. | |
cohabiting couple it is one in three. Do you think marriage is | :24:27. | :24:34. | |
important for society? Yes. Yes I do. For people like Mark and | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
Kayleigh and these two here, definitely to be together, and it | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
is good to be married. For your children, it is nice to have your | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
mum and dad together. Unlike me I grew up with just a mother. That is | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
probably why I wouldn't get married. But not everyone is convinced that | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
marriage benefits children. Without the pressure of marriage some | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
relationships work better. sound like you are talking from | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
experience? I was married for seven years. My husband left me a year | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
ago. We tried to stick it out for the children but it wasn't fair on | :25:09. | :25:15. | |
them. The UK has won of the highest rates of family breakdown in the | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
western world. Children in Britain are less likely to live with both | :25:18. | :25:25. | |
parents than children in Germany, France, and the US. Fewer than 70% | :25:25. | :25:35. | |
:25:35. | :25:36. | ||
live with their mother and father. # I remember how I thrilled at the | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
sight of you # I remember | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
At this bowls club, more than 600 years worth of marriage is playing | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
out on the green. Almost all of the couples playing | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
have been married for more than 40 years. So how have they managed to | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
stay together for so long? Is there something special about the | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
institution of marriage that's kept them united. Or is it more about | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
them as people, their characteristics that we need to | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
understand? On that question experts don't agree. | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
Getting married is a different level all together. You have a very | :26:16. | :26:22. | |
public commitment in front of family, friends, the state, the | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
community. It is clear and it is much harder to get married and it | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
is much harder to get out of being married. There is a very public | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
commitment there. Couples that get matter yod have different | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
characteristics -- married have different characteristics to those | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
who cohabit. We can observe them easily. The couples who choose to | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
get matter yod have higher levels of education and higher | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
professional occupations, they are more likely to own their own home | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
and have higher incomes. Lots of these factors will contribute to | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
whether they separate or not in the long-term. Marriage amongst high | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
income groups is on the rise, 66% of people in the top social class, | :26:58. | :27:04. | |
such Assenor managers, are married. Whilst only 44 -- such as senior | :27:04. | :27:13. | |
managers are married, why only 44% in the other groups, such as manual | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
worker. Norman and Lorna have been married for 55 years, they think | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
young couples could do with help from the Government. Times are not | :27:21. | :27:27. | |
easy at the moment. If they are living in a flat you still have to | :27:27. | :27:33. | |
buy furniture, anything to help people get started. That's it. I | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
know these days people start off when they get married and want | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
everything. We started, we got married we had a bed a kitchen | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
table and two chairs. When we had visitors they sat on boxes and | :27:46. | :27:56. | |
:27:56. | :27:58. | ||
things because we couldn't afford it. You brush up nice? You can see | :27:58. | :28:05. | |
why I fell for him. Let as face it, she was a smasher. Len and Diana | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
have been married for 62 years. Do you think that it is any business | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
of the Government whether people are married or not? No. No business | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
at all. Definitely not. No. It is a personal thing between a couple. It | :28:18. | :28:24. | |
is nothing to do with the Government at all. Why they want to | :28:24. | :28:34. | |
:28:34. | :28:34. | ||
poke their noses in! Knowss -- noses! I really don't know. | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
Arguments may rage about what this certificate means. But perhaps it | :28:38. | :28:45. | |
is laughter that makes a marriage worth the paper it is written on. | :28:45. | :28:52. | |
My wife had a hip operation, right. Oh! And when she came home they had | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
given her mechanical fingers to put her knickers on. I said that's | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
bloody stupid what are you doing that for, I will put your knickers | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
up, I got them half way up and I thought bloody hell I must be old | :29:03. | :29:13. | |
:29:13. | :29:15. | ||
because I was trying to get these off years ago! Don't put that on | :29:15. | :29:22. | |
television for good's sake! Well now here to discuss the ins and | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
outs of marriage are Harry Benson from The Marriage Foundation, a | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
group that campaigns in favour of marriage. Claire Paye a campaigner | :29:32. | :29:40. | |
for Mothers at Home Matter. Natlie Bennett from the left-leaning think | :29:41. | :29:47. | |
tank. And Fiona Millar, who lives in what used to be called "sin". | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
What business, can you answer that question that couple were perplexed | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
by, what business is it of the Government whether people are | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
married or not? It is a great question. You would think if all | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
relationships were the same it wouldn't make any difference. But | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
the Government is deeply involved in family life already. If I took | :30:04. | :30:11. | |
you into a secondary school and I introduced you to 100 teenagers | :30:11. | :30:18. | |
about to start their GCSE exam, of that 100 teenagers 45 are not | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
living with both their natural parents. That is where the cost of | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
family breakdown has spiralled out of control. 45% of kids are now | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
living without their natural parents, and the state spends an | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
absolute fortune, rightly, protecting and supporting lone | :30:33. | :30:39. | |
parent families. Fiona Millar? respond to that? I think if you are | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
talking about the reasons children don't achieve. They are complicate. | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
We know there is a correlation between married couples and | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
outcomes for children. We don't know there is a causal link. There | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
are a lot of other reasons why children don't achieve. The state | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
has a business looking into people's, having policy for | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
people's personal lives, and families lives. It should be to | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
support families in whatever form they come. Not simply families in a | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
married couple. So don't make a big deal of marriage? You are talking | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
about stability and commitment for children. There can be even with | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
parents who separate. Why wouldn't you just penalise people who get | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
divorced then. The Government could fine people for getting divorced? | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
Don't you think people are penalised enough when they get | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
divorced. Let's look at what works, of the 55 kids I have introduced | :31:28. | :31:36. | |
you to in year nine b to start their GCSEs, of those 55 kids whose | :31:36. | :31:46. | |
parents are still intact, 51 out of 55 are married. It is the model who | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
work, gorgeous fe Fiona who has made it work is an exception. | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
don't think I am an exception, there are lots of successful family | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
models that don't involve marriage. It is about the quality of | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
relationship rather than status. We know children do well in loving | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
warm environments, that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
married environments. It means that you need to support the quality of | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
that relationship and the stability in that household. Kid will do much | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
better in a household where it is loving and warm rather than in a | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
married household where the parents are in conflict and arguing all the | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
time. What is it specifically about marriage that makes it a better | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
environment to bring up children in? It is the commitment and | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
stability. I think Harry has mentioned the statistics behind it. | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
That you just are more likely to separate if you are cohabiting than | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
if you are married. To get married, at some point you have discussed | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
your long-term future, you have said I want to marry you, you | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
haven't just ended up living together and then carrying on | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
because nothing else has happened in the meantime. You have discussed | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
it, you have committed. And you are married. Sorry, but I do think, to | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
compare people who are cohabiting to those who are married is not a | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
like-for-like comparison, in a way. Most people cohabit before they | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
choose to get married, if that is what they choose to decide. It is | :33:03. | :33:09. | |
not really comparing like-for-like, it is kind of unfair to say that | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
those cohabiting have a different range, the data is more complicated | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
than that. Tell me to back off if I'm prying here, why did you make | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
the different decision, which was the decision not to get married? | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
Well I have always felt that marriage was a bit of a patriarchal | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
institution, I'm not religious, the ceremony doesn't appeal to me at | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
all. Since your researcher phoned me up to talk about this programme, | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
I thought about the reasons more than 33 years. I could never think | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
of a good reason to do it. It was not a reason to do it but not to do | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
it. We have a commitment to each other, we have three children, we | :33:43. | :33:48. | |
had our ups and downs, well chronicled in his diaries, I'm sure | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
everyone knows about them, we stuck together for 33 years and there is | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
a form of commitment and stability. Frankly I hear it offensive to hear | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
from politicians that our form of family life is any less valid than | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
those with a ring on the finger. Perhaps they are saying it is | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
slightly more vulnerable? If the commitment is there it doesn't | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
matter if you are cohabiting or married. You have to look at the | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
underlying reasons why people stick together. I'm not sure that | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
marriage ceremonies are the reason. There is a correlation, but is that | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
the cause. You are more or less assuming, are you not, that | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
children are better brought up by two parents than one? I'm not. It | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
is the choice we have made and a lot of people do make of it. I can | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
think of many successful families that don't have two parents and the | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
children achieve extremely well. You have to be very careful about | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
making judgments about the right type of family model and the wrong | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
type of family model. These judgments are made all the time. If | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
we were to take your argument seriously, what mechanism should be | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
imposed to try to get people to get married and stay married? I think | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
you can't get away from this basic fact that 51 out of 55 kids in this | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
case are living in intact married families. You have said that, come | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
on tell us how you think the Government could get people to get | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
married and stay married? OK, the first thing is that the current | :35:07. | :35:14. | |
Government policy actually penalises married couples, how it | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
does that is at the low end, if you are receiving tax credits if | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
somebody moves in with you their income comes into our household and | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
you lose your tax credits, that is called the couple penalty. It is | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
well known. I spoke to a mate of mine this report, happily married, | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
he said he already worked out if he and his wife split up they would be | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
so much better off than if they were living together. That is | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
utterly mad. A marriage tax break would be one of the ways of | :35:40. | :35:45. | |
righting that wrong. How much money do you think it would take to | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
persuade someone to get married and stay married? I don't think it is | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
the amount of money to persuade people to get married. You are the | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
people child benefit, it doesn't cause people to have children, we | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
pay pensions and it doesn't cause people to get old. Giving a | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
marriage tax break would be a good thing because it is a good thing, | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
because most people who actually make their relationships work are | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
married. And the state would then be recognising that. Is there any | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
way of measuring a feings inducement to get this what is | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
perceived to be a good thing in the Government's mind to work? I find | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
it very hard to believe and haven't seen any evidence to support that | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
people would get married or stay married because of a marriage tax | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
break. What we are seeing in Relate, the charity are seeing an increase | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
with people under financial pressure coming to them. I think it | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
is about supporting families at times of financial pressure. | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
Affordable childcare, shared parental leave. Those kinds of | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
policies I think would have a far greater impact than something like | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
a marriage tax break. David Cameron is talking about something between | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
�150, would you get married for that? Not because David Cameron | :36:55. | :37:02. | |
told me to. That is for sure. �50 probably not. But at my time of | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
life, coming through the other end, our children are grown up now, | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
there is a great advantage in being married because of the situation | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
with inheritance tax. I think we should be equalising the situation | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
so cohabiting hetrosexual couples can have civil partnerships as well. | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
I'm penalised now. Do you think that couples should stay together | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
for the sake of the children, because it is a better environment? | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
I think the ideal situation is where you have a couple who are | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
happily married, who love each other, where they can look after | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
their children the way they want to, so if the mother or father wants to | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
stay at home full-time they can. If one of them wants to work they can. | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
And that is a fantastic environment to bring children up in it is | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
stable and loving. It might exist, but most of us have to make | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
compromises in life? You can look at the ideal and say how close can | :37:51. | :37:58. | |
we get to that. It doesn't deny the fact it is an ideal, if you can | :37:58. | :38:05. | |
have a couple happily married, committed to the children, who | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
remain committed to the children throughout their lives. Do you | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
think a single parent is less capable of doing such a good job? | :38:11. | :38:17. | |
Not at all. Why worry about it? is great if you can have a father | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
and a mother. So you assert, where is the evidence? Because when you | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
have parents living together you develop attachments, you develop | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
bonding with the children. I have to say sometimes my husband works | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
away, it is much easier when he's around that the children get a | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
balanced approach to being brought up. They have the male version and | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
the female version. And that works really well. It is very hard when | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
I'm on my own. What is the evidence on this? Families are far more | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
diverse, I don't think that's, families thrive in different | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
environment, I think when people are able to make choices that work | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
for them, that is when kids do really well. That is when you get a | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
loving and supporting home that children and couples and people on | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
their own who make that decision thrive on. At the moment a lot of | :39:03. | :39:12. | |
families can't make the choices they want. If you are a single | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
parent family you are more penalised in the taxies it, single | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
income families are penalised in the tax system, rather than a | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
double income family, you pay �2,500 more than a dual income | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
family. A lot of people can't afford to stay at home and look | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
after the children or work part- time. A lot of people do have to | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
work. In some cohabiting couples people stay at home and look after | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
the children. There aren't hard and fast rules. If parents separate I | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
think it is partly the role of the state to help support that family | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
to maintain good relationships with both parents. What we are saying is | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
it is important for children to have a relationship with both | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
parents if they can in both situation. Sometimes it is not | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
right for people to stay together. When you look at the growth in | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
divorce and cohabiting couples and children born out of wedlock. The | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
fact there is no longer any stigma against either divorcees or bass | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
standards, there is no stiing -- bastards, there is no stigma | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
because children see all sorts of models in school. Is it a bad or | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
good thing? I want to pick you up on this idea of being more divorce. | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
There isn't. There is a lot more than in 1950? Compared to 1950, but | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
compared to 1980 it is not true. We had a one million lone parent | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
families in 1980 there are two million today. We have less divorce | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
than in 1980. You have to explain if it is all the background factors | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
that are supposedly the reason why families are spliting up, you have | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
to explain why family breakdown has doubled, it is the trend away from | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
marriage, that is the reason we have our 45 out of 100-kids who are | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
living without both natural parents. One of the fascinating thing is the | :40:58. | :41:03. | |
success of marriage, if you think there isn't any stigma attached to | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
be unmarried, there aren't the economic reasons for women to have | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
to get married and so many people are still getting married, you | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
should be celebrating the fact it is still so popular. It is the | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
grain of human behaviour. Don't judge those who don't make the | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
decision. I'm not. That is the way the arguments are presented. | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
Government policy should go with the grain of human behaviour, we | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
want to stay together as couples. Few people set out wanting to be | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
lone parents, we should support lone parents and marriage as well. | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
It is stigmatising for lone parents to be told the married couple model | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
is the best one. If you hear it that way. I hear it that way, I | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
have been living with the same person for 33 years and three grown | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
up children, I hear our model of family life and parenting and | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
relationship is not as good as somebody else's. Let me say on | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
behalf of myself and my family and The Marriage Foundation and anyone | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
who represents families, I love lone parent families. I'm not a | :42:02. | :42:08. | |
lone parent family. We should support them, but we should support | :42:08. | :42:13. | |
married families. And unmarried families? That is the, if I told | :42:13. | :42:19. | |
you my uncle had died aged 90 having smoked 60fags a day he is | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
the exception not the rule. You can't tell everyone not to smoke | :42:22. | :42:29. | |
because he has done OK. Fiona has done OK but she's the exceptional. | :42:29. | :42:34. | |
Lots of marriages fail too? Tiny numbers of unmarried couples make | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
it through. Not tiny numbers, a smaller proportion than married | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
couples. The numbers are different to begin with. You can't compare | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
married to cohabiting families. You have to accept and reflect that | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
society is different and there are far more, it is different family | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
types, and people are making choices that work for them and it | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
is dynamic. Not everyone will remain in the same relationship | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
status throughout. You know they will change and different | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
environments will work differently. One of the reasons Fiona is here, | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
other than her great contribution is we are slightly surprised that | :43:06. | :43:12. | |
someone has been cohabiting for 33 years stim together. I don't know | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
why our joorb is still together. I don't know why you are surprised, | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
he's a pussy cat. Knowing her partner, if you had a married | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
couple married for 33 years that would be less significant. We have | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
looked for someone who has been cohabiting for 33 years and made it | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
so obviously your model. All my married friends are now divorced, | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
seriously. Choose your friends wisely. | :43:37. | :43:43. | |
Let's return to our main story. That is the attack in broad | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
daylight this afternoon in Woolich where a man, believed to be a | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
British soldier was hacked to death, the Home Secretary says it was an | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
attack on everyone in the UK. After the attack the two men were shot by | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
police and are now under armed guard in hospital. Richard Watson | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
is here again. What are the options the Government will be looking at | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
now? I think they will be taking a very close look at the preventing | :44:08. | :44:15. | |
violent extreme policy, which has been in place for some years now. | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
Called PREVENT for short. This is to encourage people in the Muslim | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
community to come forward with community intelligence with | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
information about extremists in their midst. The question is who | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
did these men know, they have been around since 2003 and converted to | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
Islam then. Who knew what they were doing, did anyone know if they held | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
extreme views and did they report it to the police? There is one note | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
of caution from another source of mine tonight who said, look, we | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
have a serious problem in the UK at the moment. He was speaking to some | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
young British Muslims today after this attack and actually they | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
expressed a certain satisfaction to him about today's attack. Saying | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
this was a good thing. Very shocking if true. I think it shows | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
the depth of the problem that we do face. Although they, they are | :45:09. | :45:16. | |
totally unrepresented and a tiny minority? A tiny minority, even | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
though they are a tiny minority, if you have these views even amongst a | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
tiny number of people, it presents a serious problem to the police and | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
Security Service. Thank you very much indeed. Not surprisingly this | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
terrible attack is on the front page of many and all of the | :45:30. | :45:40. | |
:45:40. | :46:01. | ||
That's all for tonight, until That's all for tonight, until | :46:01. | :46:11. | |
:46:11. | :46:33. | ||
tomorrow, goodnight. Good evening, a cold wind flows across tonight | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
into tomorrow. Showers further south. Most across eing and Wales | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
start dry with sunshine. Cloudy in the north. Filtering down in the | :46:41. | :46:48. | |
strengthening wind. Even if you leave with house -- with sunshine | :46:48. | :46:53. | |
overhead it won't stay like that. The showers not as heavy as in the | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
morning. Wind and snow across the high grounds. Blizzard conditions | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
on the top of the Grampians. Strong and gusty wind making it feel cold. | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
Heavy showers late morning and early afternoon, central and | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
southern areas this is where the heavy showers with under thiser and | :47:08. | :47:14. | |
hail mixed in will be for the second half of the day. | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
Temperatures across the country 9- 16. The heavier showers could have | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
some snow mixed in on the tops of the hills. Particularly for | :47:23. | :47:27. |