01/08/2013 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines. With Anita Anand.

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Once again the people whose job it is to started start once again the


people whose job it is to pro-- -- protect the children have failed


miserably. The man who is sent in tells us it has highlighted a


crisis in social services. They are overwhelmed and there is nothing


that I can see that suggests this will not be getting more of a


difficulty. I'm really worried And he's here tonight to discuss


what might be done to stop other children being murdered.


Also tonight on the streets of Cairo protesters supporting the


ousted Islamist Government refuse orders by the army to leave. The


stand-off between Egypt's generals and supporters of the former


President continues, can it really be resolved in such a way that


leaves any hope for elections? A new set of peers announced today


will join the already overstuffed House of Lords and it seems being


on a certain nightly news programme might have swung it for a cop of


them. People probably saw --A couple of them. People saw me maybe


doing strategic thinking and maybe thought I would play a role in the


House of Lords. It is not us just making a joke of it, do you think


it had something to do with it? is mainly you making a joke of it.


And the election in Iran was supposed to thau relations between


the west, but the screws have been tightened further. We ask his


right-hand man what we can expect of the new regime on the eve of the


President's swearing in. They turned Daniel from a bright-


eyed little boy into a bag of bones, they basically broke him in so many


ways. The words of a senior officer responsible for the investigation


into the death of four-year-old Daniel Pelka. Today it was said the


horrific catalogue of abuse should be on everyone's conscience. This


was a little boy who went to school as he was being starved, force-fed


salt, beaten, held under water in his bath, and looked in a cold


empty room at night. Tonight Newsnight talks to a man about


where the failures in the social care system lie, and the system


that is supposed to protect children, and his prognosis is very


worrying indeed. We have this report.


He was starved and beaten on a regular basis, he was imprisoned in


a box room, he was drowned to the point of unconsciousness on


occasion, he was also poisoned with salt. So yes an absolutely wretched


existence for this little boy. There is no shortage of


horrorifying descriptions of Daniel Pelka's suffering, or disbelief


that so many opportunities were missed to intervene. In the 14


months before his death there were visits to his home by social


workers, health workers and teachers. There was a police


investigation and three weeks before he died he was examined by a


paediatrician. I think testifies one-and-a-half stone. Today began a


search for answers. And the inevitable finger-pointing. I think


his death should be on all of our consciences. You are in a unique


position, what should the Government be doing? What we have


done already is get rid of a lot of complexity and bureaucracy that we


worried might have meant that cases were not picked up earlier.


Everybody knew but nobody did anybody about it. Nobody felt they


were directly responsible for it and that it was their job that they


were paid for to put it right to do something about it. That's what


went wrong. Coventry's child services department is now subject


to an official review for its handling of this case. But it is


not alone in facing scrutiny. According to Ofsted one in four of


the country's child protection units are failing. Ray Jones is the


man Ofsted sends in to work with councils struggling to cope. He can


see how social workers in Coventry might have missed things. This is


my concern, that people don't have the time at the moment to find out


what they need to find out. We don't get to know what we need to


know. People are rushing from case- to-case, family-to-family, child-


to-child, trying to close the ones down that we think maybe that is OK,


but we're not sure but we can't stick with it because we have to


make space for new referrals and notifications. So, yes, with what


we know now people would have clearly done different things. But


it is understandable for me in terms of the pressure the system is


under why people don't necessarily know what they need to know. In the


last five years the number of children in the child protection


system has increased. Child protection orders have gone up by


47%, while care proceedings, which is when social services apply to a


court for a child to be taken into care have gone up 64%. And the


number of children ending up in care has increased by 13%. Ray


Jones reports regularly to the Children's Minister, and this is


what he has been telling him. the council has put in some more


resources, money, by taking money from elsewhere, finding it


increasingly difficult to do that because the public sector


expenditure cuts. But they are all doing it in a context where they


are struggling to keep up with the demand coming through the front


door. They can't recruit enough social workers to stay around to


make sure they know the families who they need to know well. Is the


Children's Minister listening? minister replies to me in terms of


thanking me for my letters. I appreciate that he will have read


the letter and civil servants will have read the letter, do I see it


getting better on the ground? No, I see increasing poverty for families,


I see increasing pressure and difficulty for coping with work


loads for social workers and police officers and paediatricians. I see


nothing at the moment which suggests to me that it is going to


get better rather than worse. According to the NSPCC it is a


recuring theme of child abuse cases that people notice something is


wrong, but shy away from getting involved. Why do you think it is


that people don't come forward? is a lack of confidence a kind of


reticence about getting involved in someone else's business, I suppose.


It is quite a big thing to comment on what another person's child


might be experiencing, and yet if you have the courage to speak up


you could be saving a child's life. Daniel Pelka will not be the only


little boy to die as a result of abuse this year. More than 50


children are likely to be killed by those meant to be caring for them.


Watching that with me in the studio is ray Jones, who you saw in that


film, also we have the chief executive of the children's charity


Action for Children, and councillor David Simmonds, Chair of the Local


Government Association Children and Young People Board. Ray if I may


start with you, Victoria Climbe, Baby Peter Connelly, how many times


do we have to have the same soul- destroying conversations? We have


had them a lot for the last 40 years, we can go back to 1943 and


the first story was about Maria Colewell in Brighton. Every year


50-70 children are dying because of neglect by parents or carers. It is


there every day for people doing child protection. It only hits the


public attention from time to time. But I'm afraid it is the working


experience of people trying to protect children that sometimes


they are not able to do so. thing is we are promised so much


when a high-profile case takes place, and post- Baby P and all the


attention that was diverted, we were assured that problems had been


fixed, we were assured that there would be early intervention, what


happened with that? There are, it is not an unremittingly grim story,


there have been some improvements across the system. But we have a


real worry about what's happening on early intervention. Eileen Munro


made a clear recommendation in her very good report that a duty should


be introduced for local authorities on early intervention. That wasn't


followed up by the Government. The recommendation of also supported by


the Select Committee that reported last year, that was a huge missed


opportunity. As was said, at a time when resores are incredibly tight


and local authorities are having to cut back and need is going up,


there needs to be something positive in place to help local


authorities to commission services specifically for early intervention.


Just under 40% of children, in different parts of the UK, will


present and are first registered for child protection purposes


because of neglect. We know we can make a huge difference in the lives


of children if we can intervene early enough. You just mentioned


funding there, but I'm just looking at the number of interventions that


took place in this case, January 2011, Daniel has a broken arm,


February 2011, fails to turn up for a follow-up appointment, March 2011


police visit the home. June 2011 social services close the file.


July 2011 a health worker visit, I'm not even half way through this


list. There were plenty of people involved in this, there didn't seem


to be a want of personnel. There was a want of action, David


Simmonds? You are absolutely right. Mums and dads up and down the


country will be looking at the coverage of this appalling case and


thinking how can this go on in a family without it being noticed and


stopped. You are absolutely right to highlight funding. It was


noticed, they won't be asking that, it was noticed by a number of


people? As well as the resources in the system to deal with a very


large increase in the number of children needing help, we also need


to make sure there is a real shared culture of responsibility among


councils and among schools and the police working together to sort


this out. I think everybody will accept that we all should be


working together to stop children being killed by those who wish them


harm. What people will want to know is why on these 11 interactions


with police, with teachers, with healthcare professionals, did


nobody yank that child out of that hell and save his life? In the


areas of the country where this is working well somebody would have


done, quite possibly the very first time that child came through the


door of a children's centre or GPs' surgery, somebody would have said


something is wrong here and I would deal with it. The issue we have is


we are not as a country consistently as good as we need to


be. There are some parts of the system where the it is creeking and


it needs to be better. You look at where it is not better, why is it


not working? I think, to be honest it is not working as well as we


want anywhere. My reason for saying that is I'm not sure that what was


known about Daniel at the time in a lot of places would have triggered


an urgent response to take action on his behalf. What we now know we


know through the criminal trial and through drilling down on what was


happening for Daniel and his family as one case, when we know that a


child had died. I'm not sure how Daniel stood up from other children


within that school or whatever. That's a devastating thing to say


about a boy who was picking refuse out of a dustbin because he was


starving. You are telling me that there are other children doing that


who are not going through abuse? I'm telling you within that school,


I would suspect, although I don't know, there were other children


coming to school who were hungry and who didn't have all the


clothing they needed. Daniel wasn't coming through a family suffering


severe deprivation and poverty. There would be other children who


were. As a consequence of that two things, one is he may not have


stood out as much as we now think he does when the story is told at


this point in time. Secondly, even if the school did see that he was


in a special situation that needed urgent action, getting that urgent


action taken by social services and police officers, who are already up


to their neck dealing with even more urgent actions for children in


immediate danger, sometimes schools can't get the response they need.


Let's talk about schools, we heard one of the teachers break down


while giving evidence. It is an awful thing, you saw a child reduce


and reduce and reduce and you now know that child is no longer with


us. What is going on at the school level at the teacher level? Why


isn't there a clearer shout that goes out from the classroom? It is


really difficult talking about this particular case. Let's talk more


general lean? I do -- generally? I do think there are huge issues for


teachers in many of the ways ray says. We did some research a couple


of years ago where we asked non- social care professionals about how


confident they felt in intervening in case of neglect. What was really


interesting is 40% were coming back and saying they didn't know quite


what to do with it. They weren't quite sure it would be escalated up


sufficiently, about 44% of the teachers, very is specifically said


they didn't know what to do when they were finding resistance from


parents. They didn't necessarily feel they had the skills or the


authority or the links with other professionals to do something about


it. That is a real concern because of the huge amount of pressure now


being put on teachers because of the cutbacks we are talking about.


That falls in your lap in that case? Very much so, from a council


perspective the key things we are seeking to do is firstly to make


sure we have a balance of staff with both the quality, but the


experience to pick up these issues. Secondly, at the social services


end that Ray has talked about, where matters are brought up we


will deal with them quickly. I have spoken to head teachers with


children who haven't had breakfast coming to school, once is a concern,


but if it is happening every day it is triggering inquiries. You are


saying it is a general feeling happening over time. It means there


is a systemic failure, one which you look to David to sort out.


the teachers we spoke to that was a very striking finding. Then deal


with that, this is a general impression, this is not a few


teachers who are saying we didn't know what to do, this is a pevasive


feeling we are hearing from Clare? It is a consistent issue brought up


in a number of child protection cases and the serious cases you


described. Is it the training and confidence that you are not giving


to your staff? It is a combination of factors, schools are autonomous,


they are largely responsible for what goes on behind closed doors.


The key thing to make sure is teachers when they are trained and


first coming into the classroom through their careers are able to


deal with these issues when they come forward. In this case the


teacher did take it further. Let's deal with it very briefly the


dealing with it further, because the teachers did make a noise about


this, teachers are making a noise about it, it gets lost then in some


kind of Labyrinth afterwards, what needs to be done to sort that out?


Let's look at the system in context, we have one of the best child


protection systems in the developed world. This keeps coming up as a


problem. There are a couple of things we can do to fix it. We need


to firstly understand the detail. The Serious Case Review will show


what went wrong and at what point. From that we need to identify the


actions. You have the ear of the minister, what do you want him to


do, if he's listening now, what do you want him to do right now?


not sure I have the ear to the minister, politics is a difficult


job. I'm concerned about the increasing difficulty that some


parents are having parenting well, not malicious parents like Daniel's


parents, parents are becoming more poor and destitute and just can't


do what they want to do for their children. I'm concerned about the


blame culture. And we have heard to from the local MP in Coventry the


demand that people lose their jobs. That is not helpful, these are


dedicated people doing a difficult job in distressing circumstances,


we need more not less of them. To take people off the pitch when they


are very experienced is not a good idea actually.


Thank you very much. The stand-off continues in Cairo tonight as


supporters of deposed Mohamed Morsi defy the army's order to move out


of their protest camps. Since the military ousted Mr Morsi on the 3rd


July, police have been rounding up his fellow leaders from the Muslim


Brotherhood, and charging them with incitement to violence. Despite


being voted in as Egypt's first democratically elected Government,


with its hierarchy in tatters is there any way back for Egypt's


Islamist party. As the heat of the Ramadan days


eases, the political temperature rises at Rabaa al-Adawiya.


Thousands come to demonstrate their support for the Muslim Brotherhood,


and to bolster those who remain here all the time, activists who


are ready to sacrifice everything. We want to die really, we want to


die for our freedom. That's history, we are writing history now.


Dozens have already died here, it is the fallen who are extoled at


evening demonstrations. Martyrs be happy, chants the boy, and wait for


us at the gates of heaven. And this sacrifice makes it even harder for


the party to stomach the humiliation of being turned out of


power one month ago. The Muslim Brotherhood leadership


still demands the clock be turned back. Mr Morsi now is our President


for his term, four years, ending after three years. But he can go to


another election in another term or not. It is a matter of democracy.


Democracy means respect of the institution. You cannot go to Mr


Hollande now in France who is having a low score of public


opinion about 25, and generals saying we want you out because you


are not popular. This is not democracy at all. The Brotherhood


strove for power for decades once they got it they angered many


Egyptians who felt they put part interests ahead of national unity.


Now their enemies abuse them of provoking violence to keep the


country tottering. I know for a fact that the


Government and security organisations in Egypt doesn't want


to deal with it the hard way, they want to deal with it the easy way.


I'm not sure the other party wants the same thing or not. I believe


they want to do it the hard way. I'm a talking about the Muslim


Brotherhood, to do it the hard way. Because again they want, they are


very good in that by the way, they are very good at talking to the


international media and the international community. They want


to look in front of them as the victims, and more blood, and they


are killing us and all this kind of stuff. They will not accept the


easy way. I'm sure they will provoke the police in order for


them, they will shoot them first, kill someone and retaliate, and


then you will see more blood. That is what they want.


Yesterday's Government pledged to clear the camp wasn't the first.


Mornings here are a time for quiet and reflection. The Ramadan fast


prohibits eating and drinking during daylight. Many spend the


night up and sleep during the morning. Not Hossein Mousavi, he's


29, well educated -- Ali, he is 29, well educated and a father. He


feels the stakes couldn't be higher. We will lose our life, we know that,


we have no problem with that, what we are looking for is very


expensive, you know, it is our freedom, our President, our country,


our democracy. It is very, very expensive. Our life doesn't mean


for that. We are looking for a good life for our children and our sons.


But this isn't just about a battle of wills, it is also a contest of


nerve and guile. There are limits on both sides. From a purely


military point of view this area is pretty indefensible, you have got


broad avenues of approach, from the west, and off to the north, where


there are substantial military forces just waiting. There are also


military installations inside this area controlled by the brotherhood


that might allow them a pretext to come in. But of course coming in


here in force could cause a huge loss of life, and the symbolic


importance of doing something that would defile this mosque couldn't


be underestimated too. So it is a thorny dilemma for the country's


military rulers. And while the authorities ponder just how to end


this stalemate soldiers stationed around the mosque keep watch on the


Cummings and goings. Many local people would rather it


was all over. Not far away this woman watched the Muslim


Brotherhood protests with disgust. We heard that some of the Muslim


Brotherhood are coming with stuff to have violence. Like many


liberal-minded Egyptians, she welcomed the overthrow of President


Morsi, and wants the Brotherhood removed but without violence if


possible. I hope that they will work it out and know that Morsi


will never come back. And they are part of this society and this


country and they have and we keep telling them one day after another


for the young men, from the Muslim Brotherhood, to go home. There is


also cold comfort for the Brotherhood away from urban Cairo.


Manzura is a Nile delta town where Islamic parties have done well


electorally. But even here many support the general who toppled the


President, and the Brotherhood's rival the Salafist party stand to


benefit in elections. We went to speak to their national spokesman


who explained the party's position in terms of President Morsi's


catalogue of errors. TRANSLATION: We realiseded if Morsi


were to continue in power it would be a problem. How could he govern


under these circumstances? So we advised the President ahead of June


30th. We suggested some political solutions for the situation we had


recognised the dangers of division. We suggested an initiative to


change the Government and the head of the Supreme Court. But no-one


took our initiative seriously. the Brotherhood finds itself


asailed from both sides of the political spectrum. It is one thing


for the protesters to promise a fight to the death, but the numbers


turning up here are down. As the sun dipped and people ended their


day's Ramadan fast, some told us off camera Morsi's fate is less


important than political survival. Even their spokesman, while


demanding the deposed President's return, wouldn't close the door on


taking part in elections later this year. Nobody can go to the ballot


under these circumstances. No security, the economy is destroyed,


tourism is now no tourists and the people are not convinced at all by


this civilian Government. That sound like a boycott? Not boycott,


we are looking to restore democracy, that means respect of the choices


of the people, not cancelling it by tanks. The military says it wants


to see the Muslim Brotherhood running in elections, but that


"will they won't they"? Is part of a bigger negotiation about


restoring democracy. Whether these people are shifted from here by


violence or apathy, the question will remain as to whether the


Muslim Brotherhood's brand of politics can be reconciled with


democracy on the terms that the Egyptian military will allow it.


All sorts of issues from the future freedom of ex-President Morsi, to


the possible boycott of elections by the Brotherhood, will be bar


againing chips in trying to reconcile the apparently


irreconcilable. Going in now might appeal to some


hardline generals, but few think they can abolish the Muslim


Brotherhood in what it stands for. And here too their fast ended, the


party's supporters have a profound faith that their political struggle


must go on. That will be a bit of a squeeze on


the benches, as 30 new peers prepare to join the 755 active


members already in the House of Lords. Among those elevated in


today's announcement, Doreen Lawrence, mother of the murdered


teenager, Stephen Lawrence, Anthony Bamford, hid of the JCB form. And


Brian Paddick, former Chief Constable. There were a couple of


names that viewers of Newsnight might be, common as muck David


Grossman reports. They are all with us now, Olly Grender the woman who


plugged Vince Cable into the grid, and the sage of Pinner, Danny


Finkelstein. Now we know the quickest way to a seat in the Lords


is via a seat on the no less prestigious Newsnight panel,


delivering sage words to the British public since 2007. Olly


Grender for the Liberal Democrats and Danny Finkelstein for the


Conservatives created live peers today. I went to talk to them to


talk about their new role. Unfortunately we had transfor the


issues. I'm really sorry, I'm here now. Danny's cab went not to the


House of Lords but Lord's. I can't see you, where are you? Stay where


you are and I will come and find you. I will come and find you! When


I did eventually find Danny it was in an unfamiliar position,


somewhere to the right of the members' enclosure and a strange


place for a political panellist sitting on the fence. The Newsnight


panel is what won it, don't you think. Actually funnily enough the


decision to go on to the Newsnight panel and to talk about having been


an official for the Conservative Party and still be interested in


that part of the work that I have done in the past did play a role


funnily enough. Because people probably saw me doing some of that


sort of strategic thinking, maybe thought I could play a role in the


House of Lords as well, doing something up there. It is not just


us making a joke of it. You think it might have actually had


something to do with it? It is mainly you making a joke of it.


is a less succinct world, a let cut and thrust world than perhaps the


Newsnight panel? Although I think actually what we were trying to do


on the Newsnight panel, what we always try to do is not to make


partisan points but try to use our political experience to shed light


on what is happening in politics. I never like to go on the Newsnight


panel and make a pro-Tory point, it is very boring and you have a lot


of politician on to do that. Exactly the same case as with the


House of Lords. The approach we use on the Newsnight panel Olly also


uses, I hope we will use that in the House of Lords. We come from a


political background. I'm a centre right person, I want the


Conservative programmes to be put into effect broadly, but I'm


capable of a degree of independence, that is what the House of Lords


should be about. It is still technically possible to become a


peer without being on the Newsnight panel, as proved today by new


Conservative Lords Sir Anthony Bamford, chairman and managing


director of JCB, and Oliver Wendell Holmes, former Paralympic swimmer.


For Labour by Doreen Lawrence, the mother of Stephen Lawrence, and


Charles Allen of the Olympic organising committee. For the


Liberal Democrats Brian Paddick, former Deputy Assistant


Commissioner in the Met and candidate for London, and James


Palumbo chairman of the Ministry of Sound group, and Jenny Jones,


former mayoral candidate. What about the other half of the


ennobled panel, we never found out where Olly's cab had taken her, but


we did reach her on the phone. Most of this is because of your work on


Newsnight? I put it all down to for six years occasionally sitting on a


sofa on Newsnight being asked for my opinion on politics. I'm sure


you would agree with that. Now you are both in the Lords will you


still talk to Danny? I have never stopped talking to Danny


Finkelstein. As you know we here at Newsnight thrive on political


conflict, it is our job to mix it up a bit? I don't know, I have


spoken to Olly, she says now she's in the House of Lords and you are,


she can't really talk to you any more? As I said before I thought


she mainly interrupted me with the silly points while I was making


good ones, there will be no difference. Or he could do the


reverse but there is a sense at the moment he's sitting on the fence.


It is also a rough period. ultimately turned out...Meanwhile


As word went around Westminster that two of our panel had gone on


to the Other Place, our phone went mad with would-be replacements.


Hello Newsnight? Afterall it is a far cheaper route to the Lords than


a big political donation and the Newsnight Green Room as twiglets.


We are not looking at anyone for the moment for the panel, we will


let you know. Thanks for calling, goodbye. It has no twiglets, I


checked. Let's discuss what the Newsnight and non-Newsnight peers


will be getting up to. I'm joined from he had butter ra from one of


the new Lib Dem peers, and the chief executive of the Electoral


Reform Society. Shall we start with you Jeremy Purvis, 784 peers in the


House. Can they cope without you? Without me, I'm sure they can. I


don't claim that I'm going to be bringing anything particularly


strong to it. I have not been on your Newsnight panel, I have been


on Newsnight Scotland on many occasion, I'm not sure if that has


been an addition to my CV that has helped. I hope to bring a little


bit of perhaps more representation from the nations into the House of


Lords, I can't claim that I'm bringing any more democrat ic


legitimacy for any time I served as a member of the Scottish Parliament


for two terms. I hope to make a contribution to make the House of


Lords more representative for the nation, including those from


Scotland. In all seriousness though, 784, nowhere to sit, according to


David Steel. This place is just overstuffed, you are not going to


be able to be heard, let alone anything else? My job is to make


sure I am heard. I will be approaching this as a serious job.


It will be my main job absolutely. I have no other independent source


of income. What do you want to do there, I want to know what will you


do when you get in there? One of the parts of discussions I had with


Nick Clegg when he asked me to do this, and the leader of the


Scottish Liberal Democrats, is to may a part in making sure that the


-- play a part that the reform of the House of Lords and generally


for the UK to play a part in the referendum in Scotland. Up until


last year I led a cross-party group which was arguing for reform to the


UK, strengthening the Scottish Parliament, making it more


accountable and a positive alternative to independence. That


is a platform in the Lords that I'm able to use, I think it might be


slightly different than some of the other peers for the interests they


have. I will be broadening that. have heard a few Lib Dem peers to


say they are going in to reform the place, one sniff and they are


forgetting all of that and it is a comfy place? I was keen on


reforming Scottish Parliament. Being a member of the House of


Lords was not part of any of my life game plan. I'm 30 years


younger than the average age of the peers. I was born and brought up in


a council house, my dad was an ambulance driver and my mum worked


in a shop. I won't make myself comfortable, this is a proper job


and I will do it to the best of my ability. It is a whiff of new blood,


300 years younger than the people sitting in there. That is a God


thing, right? The problem with the new appointments is they


demonstrate the point with democraticing will get macy. The


House of Lords is bursting at the scenes, you talked about having


somewhere comfy to sit. There are 400 places to sit, there are 800


peers. The electoral research shows there will be 1,000 peers to come


and 2,000 peers after the next general election. What do you want


to do? We are the second-largest chamber in the world after China.


We have to put a stop to it t the party leaders have to get around a


table and put their heads together. We need a smaller more efficient


House of Lords. We strongly believe it should be elected by the people.


That is a greyer version for the House of Commons, you are asking


for people to get elevated to a higher house and it looks the same?


It is a fantasy at the moment that we have independence and expertise


in large quantities in the House of Lords. Most of the people in the


House of Lords are either party political people, a lot of them are


ex-politicians or party donor, we need to open up our politics from


people of all walks of life and talent, the most important thing we


have to do is sort out this super- sized second chamber which makes us


a laughing stock around the world. The problem is when you ask people,


I'm looking at the latest YouGov poll on reform from the House of


Lords, from June, only 18% of people could be bothered about this.


Most thought it is a bit of a smoke screen and diverts you from more


important matters? You are absolutely right to say it is never


going to be stop of voters' shopping lists, but over half and


up to three quarter of people when asked say we want to be able to


elect our law makers. Let's go back to you Jeremy. We have been doing a


few sums. If the House of Lords of open 24 hours a day, and all the


peers spoke one after the other, without any toilet break, no


popping out for sandwiches, nothing. You would get two minutes to speak.


This is ludicrous, if you want to reform something you don't become


part of the establishment do you? As an MSPI I had timed stpeechs of


three and four minutes, I don't think it is necessarily the case


that very long speeches are always very good. Your point is a serious


one, I think that certainly as far as reform, it can be in two stages


of making sure it is a reduced chamber and it is more efficient as


a chamber. That is part of the agenda where I think there is


growing consensus of having effectively retirement for that.


That would reduce the scale drammatically. I want it to be


reformed, I don't want it to be a version of the House of Commons, I


want it to be representative, democratically legitimate but


representative of the nations and rojs across the UK. A more --


regions across the UK. A more federal chamber. Do you have a time


limit, you will say I'm going to be here for five years f I can't


reform I'm out of here, I can't take the �300 day, that's it?


is an interesting angle and what I would like to argue the case is the


referendum in Scotland and the lively debate that is happening in


Wales at the moment should be a way of bringing this debate back to the


table. It not simply about electing a set of politicians in the second


chamber of which the public, as you have right low said has very


limited interest -- rightly said has very limited interest in it.


But parts of England are hungry for a reformed Westminster and the


institutions of the UK. It sound as if you are there for the long haul.


Jeremy, Lord Purvis, thank you very much indeed. My thanks also to


Katie Ghosh. Elated Iranians took to the streets shouting "bye bye


Ahmed" after the news in the presidential election broke. It


certainly didn't seem as if anyone was too bad to see Mahmoud


Ahmadinejad pass into retirement. With food inflation at 20% and


sanctions on oil exports of the country costing the country more


than half of its source of income. How will the new ruler keep the


people's spirits up. We will hear from Tehran from one of the


President's closest aides in a moment. Who is the man who is about


to take power? He is the face that people hope is the acceptable face


of Iran. He will take office at the weekend, eight years of Mahmoud


Ahmadinejad's rule is coming to a close. The jubilation when the


streets when he won the elections last month was palpable for all to


see. A far cry from images of the last elections in 2009, when


violence and bloodshed hit the country, after protestors clashed


with Government forces over disputed results when Ahmadinejad


claimed to have won. But despite the reel operations he faces a


herculean task ahead of him, solve the nuclear problem and sanctions.


Plus there is the on going tensions with neighbours. There is


expectations for a move away from the hardline stance from the past.


That didn't stop him giving the west some advice. TRANSLATION:


time of sanctions is passed, even the west knows that they are facing


problems and the sanctions are not in their interest either.


America and Israel are still wary of Iran's nuclear capablities. He


might be reassuring the public about a transparent programme, but


ultimately it is the country's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali


Khamenei, a staunch conservative who decides on these matters. But


he also presides over a crippled economy, inflation is soaring at


over 40%, the highest in the region, with many ordinary Iranians


suffering and hungry, not just for food but for reform. One of the


President's closest allies will be Dr Mohammad Nahavandian, an


economist who is currently in charge of the commerce chambers, he


will be steering the President through the difficult months ahead.


A little earlier I spoke to Mohammad Nahavandian, and I asked


him what could be expected in this new President's Iran? Everybody is


hopeful that we will have a more harmonised economy, more harmonised


Government and more participation by people in the state of the


country in economic issues and political issues as well.


people are asking for two very difficult things, they are asking


him to fix a failing economy, they are asking him to make sure that


sanctions are loosened. How is he going to start trying to do that?


There are some problems with some countries which have accumulated


through time, but the direction for mutual trust and mutual confidence


is accepted by people and in check issues we are seeing a lot of


interest being expressed by private sector, domestic and foreign to r


for having investments in -- and foreign for having investments in


many parts of the Iranian economy. You talk about problems that have


built up over time with certain countries. Let's talk about two of


those countries, and when news reached Benjamin Netanyahu about


the election of Mr Rouhani, and he said this is a man who called


Ahmadinejad a wolf in wolf's clothe, he is a wolf in sheep's clothe, he


smiles but builds a bomb. Does that mean relations with Israel will be


as bad as they ever have been with your new leader? That kind of


wording is not going to help. To help solving any problems. This is


a new opportunity for the world, for the west, for Iran as well to


put the issues that we have differences of opinion in a new


perspective and find a kind of solution which is win-win. Iran is


a country with a great deal of influence in the region, what do


you see in President Assad of Syria that the rest of the world cannot?


When foreign interests come into play and allow extremist factors


play a role, violence can prevent democracy from giving the people


the right of self-rule. Will Iran row back from its nuclear ambition?


Nuclear technology is a technology that every nation has to have its


right for peaceful use. Iran has always plain taind that the


intention here has -- maintained that the intention has been only


for peaceful uses, not only taking care and following the


international obligations, but also from religious points of view, Iran


has been of the opinion that nuclear arms are not allowed


according to Islamic law. I think those misunderstandings can go away


if all sides take a new approach in negotiations. Thank you very much


for being with us. Morning papers:


That is all that we have time for. I will be here to do it all over


again tomorrow night, until then good night. Whilst today was a day


of contrast with rain in the north and heat in the south-east, things


will be a little more straight forward tomorrow, it looks as


though it will be sunny spells and scattered showers. Those showers


perhaps thundery in the central and eastern areas first thing in the


morning. By the middle of the afternoon it will be a better


afternoon in Northern Ireland and Scotland, particularly in


comparison to today. There will be a few showers, but inbetween some


lovely sunny spells. It will feel quite pleasant. Perhaps sheltered


and eastern areas staying dry all day. Highest values for 22 degrees.


A few showers across northern England. There will be decent


breaks in the cloud and a pleasant feel. A little fresher than today,


that may well be welcome news. We will still got the heat into East


Anglia and still humidity with a few showers here to come. A little


more cloud with sharper showers into the south west and parts of


Wales. But, as the nature of showers you may well escape them


all together and keep the sunshine and with a fresher feel it will


feel more pleasant. As we move towards Friday and into the weekend,


the risk of showers increases and the fresher scenario stays with us.


London may well stay dry, there will be more sunshine around on


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines. With Anita Anand.