02/08/2013 Newsnight


02/08/2013

Analysis of the stories behind the headlines. Including, why is Obama's election man going to work for David Cameron, and Shimon Peres on his 90th birthday. With Anita Anand.


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Jim Messina led Barack Obama back to the White House, he's a lifelong

:00:16.:00:18.

Democrat. Ladies and gentlemen the re-elected President of the United

:00:18.:00:22.

States. And now he's coming here to work for David Cameron. If a man

:00:22.:00:28.

like this is willing to work for Team Cameron, what does that say

:00:28.:00:32.

about Team Miliband, Allegra broke the story. This is shaping up to be

:00:32.:00:37.

the longest campaign in British electoral history, but is only one

:00:37.:00:44.

side preparing. And what links Jane Austen with an American Pop Idol.

:00:44.:00:52.

The answer Kelly Clarkson, who has bought Jane's ring at auction, she

:00:52.:00:57.

can't take it out of the country. Is it our pride or prejudice. And

:00:57.:01:02.

Shimon Peres, the man with the strange power to turn Tony Blair

:01:02.:01:08.

into Maureen Lipman. It's his birthday, he's 90, now he's

:01:08.:01:15.

President, what comes next? After a lifetime fighting for Zionism, we

:01:15.:01:25.

ask the Israeli president about the odds of peace in his time? British

:01:25.:01:29.

politics seems to be turning slowly into the Premier League, dominated

:01:29.:01:33.

by expensive foreign stars. We can reveal that Barack Obama's campaign

:01:33.:01:38.

manager, Jim Messina, is the latest high-profile signing. With the long

:01:38.:01:43.

and gruelling election campaign on the way the Lib Dems are being led

:01:43.:01:48.

by a South Africa, the Tories from an Australian with help from his

:01:48.:01:52.

new American friend. With Labour? By no-one at the moment. Our

:01:52.:02:01.

political editor got the story. First time round was one thing, but

:02:01.:02:05.

getting re-elected the second time round was quite something again.

:02:05.:02:12.

One man devoted his every waking hour to that task, this man, at the

:02:12.:02:14.

microphone. Ladies and gentlemen the re-elected President of the

:02:14.:02:18.

United States Barack Obama. The man that got President Obama re-elected

:02:18.:02:23.

is about to try to do the same for David Cameron. Newsnight can reveal

:02:23.:02:30.

that President Obama's campaign manager is now joining the

:02:30.:02:33.

Conservatives' 2015 general election team. Jim Messina has an

:02:33.:02:37.

impressive CV and boasts never having lost an election. But it is

:02:37.:02:43.

simpler than that, he got the most powerful man in the world re-

:02:43.:02:47.

elected and David Cameron wants a piece of that. Jim Messina is a

:02:47.:02:51.

lifelong Democrat, a political campaigner while at university, by

:02:51.:02:55.

2008 he had been made deputy Chief of Staff in President Obama's White

:02:55.:02:58.

House. He was described as the most powerful man you have never heard

:02:58.:03:04.

of. But it is campaigning not governing that excites Messina. In

:03:04.:03:07.

2011 President Obama asked Messina to leave the White House in order

:03:07.:03:13.

to get the whole team back in the election of 2012. Messina decamped

:03:13.:03:18.

to Chicago. I wanted to take a minute...The Re-election strategy

:03:18.:03:21.

involved with communicating with vast numbers of activists through

:03:21.:03:25.

regular video memos like this one. Hi everyone, it is Jim Messina, the

:03:25.:03:29.

President's campaign manager. I wanted to spend a minute talking to

:03:29.:03:32.

you about what we are building on the ground and give you a behind

:03:32.:03:37.

the scenes look at the maps. Messina of the architect of that

:03:37.:03:42.

effort. What he did was he and the rest of the Obama team built one of

:03:42.:03:46.

the most robust turnout operations in the history of presidential

:03:46.:03:50.

politics. Essentially they went out and found anyone who was even

:03:50.:03:54.

remotely inclined to support him through e-mails and social media

:03:54.:03:59.

and just actually canvasing on the ground and communities throughout

:03:59.:04:09.
:04:09.:04:22.

the country. They were able to I want you to have a quick update.

:04:22.:04:29.

That is one part of the Messina mix, part-geek, will you about part-

:04:29.:04:37.

political assassin. Look at this attack ad. # Oh beautiful # Forever

:04:37.:04:41.

waves of grey. Messina told President Obama that the 2012

:04:41.:04:50.

election would not resemble the hopey-changey thing of 2008.

:04:51.:04:53.

America # America This time they had to get

:04:53.:04:58.

their hands dirty. There is a pap port between the

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Tories and the Democrats. David Cameron flew to the states in 2012,

:05:03.:05:08.

attending this basketball match in the swing seat of Ohio, it was

:05:08.:05:12.

basically an endorsement trip. America is also one of the very few

:05:12.:05:16.

countries that has re-elected its Government since the economic

:05:16.:05:26.
:05:26.:05:33.

crisis. This is something the Replicate. Tonight Tories are

:05:33.:05:38.

insisting Messina reports to campaign strategy with Lynton

:05:38.:05:42.

Crosby, sending advice to him from America. Cross Over controls the

:05:42.:05:46.

message, Messina the technique. This division of labour may not

:05:46.:05:52.

last, but right now the pressure is on the opposition. This evening one

:05:52.:05:56.

of my Labour sources said the party had been spooked by the appointment

:05:56.:06:00.

of Jim Messina. That their leader has been caught woefully short.

:06:01.:06:04.

Where as David Cameron has a multitude of general election

:06:04.:06:08.

advisers hailing from all sides of the political spectrum, Ed Miliband

:06:08.:06:13.

currently has none. I'm going to bring Jim Messina back up. Punching

:06:13.:06:17.

home how critical hard facts are to a successful campaign, Messina is

:06:17.:06:23.

fond of saying "we have the math, they have the myth". Now the Tory

:06:23.:06:29.

Party has both. A man with mythical status who loves his maths. Allegra

:06:29.:06:35.

is here now. Is this really a game- changer? It has sent shockwaves

:06:35.:06:38.

through Westminster, even though Westminster is actually in exodus

:06:38.:06:42.

in different parts of the world on holiday. I actually had within

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minutes of our story breaking somebody contact me from their

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poolside on holiday to vent. A Labour source saying this is

:06:50.:06:54.

outrageous, we have no campaign manager, where as they basically

:06:54.:06:58.

have two or maybe more however you count them. And since Tom Watson

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resigned from his role a few months back this has been an obviously

:07:04.:07:08.

vacant role that has not been filled. There is real fury in

:07:08.:07:11.

Labour ranks. Even amongst loyalists to Ed Miliband, people

:07:11.:07:14.

have close to him, they do acknowledge that Messina's skills

:07:14.:07:19.

are really, really rather awesome and that they haven't yet got

:07:19.:07:23.

anybody yet to fill that role. can talk further about this. We are

:07:23.:07:33.

joined from New York by Ben Smith the Editor in Chief of Skup --

:07:33.:07:36.

buzzfeed.com, and here in the studio with Dan Hodges who writes

:07:36.:07:41.

for the Telegraph and Statesman. Can I start with you Ben, there is

:07:41.:07:47.

quite a bit of hype around this man, does he live up to it? He's

:07:47.:07:52.

American and political operative. Not from the high-end Washington

:07:52.:07:56.

grand strategy but really from rural Montana where he came up

:07:56.:08:01.

doing hard-fought knife-night local races. He got in trouble for

:08:01.:08:05.

running essentially anti-gay ed ands against a Democratic rival out

:08:05.:08:10.

there. He was not the ideas or message of the Obama operation, he

:08:10.:08:14.

was the guy who managed the campaign in 2008 behind the scenes.

:08:14.:08:18.

In 2012 he took over and ran the details of an incredibly

:08:18.:08:23.

sophisticated campaign. He put a lot of faith in big data, not so

:08:23.:08:29.

much in communicating on the Internet but using the data to

:08:29.:08:35.

understand who the voters were. There is a campaign for labour

:08:35.:08:41.

writing to Obama about how unhappy they are of him going to work for

:08:41.:08:45.

the Tories. Would he have done this with President Obama's permission?

:08:45.:08:50.

There is no doubt. That is hugely significant? It is, I think what's

:08:50.:08:54.

concerning the Labour people is there is now a real sense of a sort

:08:54.:09:01.

of feeling of men against boys as we enter the election running. The

:09:01.:09:04.

significant thing about Messina's appointment which sits alongside

:09:04.:09:07.

the appointment of Lynton Crosby. Is what you see from the Tory side

:09:08.:09:13.

is the Tories building a campaign team around senior experienced

:09:13.:09:17.

campaign political strategists. Now Labour has been looking to beef up

:09:17.:09:20.

its communications operation, but at the moment it is looking to

:09:20.:09:24.

expand its press team. I think there is a real concern that Labour

:09:24.:09:27.

has actually quite good press operations in relation to the

:09:27.:09:31.

Tories but it doesn't have anyone to manage the grand strategy. That

:09:31.:09:34.

is concerning people on the Labour side. It is also the tardiness of

:09:34.:09:38.

them realising that there is an election in 2015, that seems to

:09:38.:09:42.

have shocked a lot of people. The Tories are way ahead, they are

:09:42.:09:45.

starting now. When will Labour get into gear on this? That is the

:09:45.:09:48.

question, we have certainly seen from the start of the year, the

:09:48.:09:51.

year started with a lot of people effectively writing off the Tories,

:09:51.:09:56.

as the years has gone on, since Lynton Crosby has come on board, we

:09:56.:10:01.

have seen the Tories nailing down issue after issue after issue, from

:10:01.:10:06.

the economy to welfare. We have seen Labour's double-digit poll

:10:06.:10:09.

lead narrowing, and people on the Labour side are questioning whether

:10:09.:10:14.

Labour will be in the game in a year or 18 months time.

:10:14.:10:19.

mentioned Ben that his is this geeky magic, he likes big data and

:10:19.:10:24.

big bucks. Let's not forget how much they spent on their campaign.

:10:24.:10:28.

We neither have that kind of money in our campaigns or that sea of

:10:28.:10:35.

data he likes to mine so much. How much use will he be? I think lot of

:10:35.:10:38.

the data is available on Facebook in commercial databases in all the

:10:38.:10:43.

places they looked in, with the Obama campaign building early. It

:10:43.:10:47.

is hard to see how the British operation could afford the tens of

:10:47.:10:51.

millions of dollars that Obama spent over the course of a couple

:10:51.:10:55.

of years putting together a database of voters and activating

:10:55.:11:01.

them. That is a real difference. Democrats care a fig whether one of

:11:01.:11:04.

their shining stars is coming over here to work for the Conservatives?

:11:04.:11:08.

I don't think there are many voters turning on Obama because of who he

:11:08.:11:12.

supports. Part of his appeal has been generational, that is a link

:11:12.:11:16.

to Cameron, that he's a new generation figure. It is

:11:16.:11:19.

interesting that people can be spooked so quickly by the mention

:11:19.:11:25.

of this name. Let's look at some of the examples, David Axlrod he was

:11:25.:11:33.

Bill Clinton's adviser, he went to work for Mario Monti and he limped

:11:33.:11:38.

in fourth position, it is not the magic wand? It is not, all the

:11:38.:11:43.

political parties are chasing the Holy Grail of the Obama-style

:11:43.:11:47.

campaign, it is difficult to run that without Obama. Also, although

:11:47.:11:53.

this has sent shockwaves through the dispersed Westminster

:11:53.:11:57.

establishment as Allegra said, there is a danger to overstate this.

:11:57.:12:00.

Political campaigns at the end of the day are won by the principals

:12:01.:12:05.

rather than the advisers. People always say where would Tony Blair

:12:05.:12:08.

have been without Alastair Campbell or Peter Mandelson. But the truth

:12:08.:12:11.

is where would Peter Mandelson and Alastair Campbell be without Tony

:12:11.:12:16.

Blair. The problem for Labour's perspective if you stand Cameron

:12:16.:12:19.

against Ed Miliband at the moment, that is not reassuring many people

:12:19.:12:26.

on the Labour side either. To you Ben Smith, how will he work with

:12:26.:12:29.

another silverback, another alpha male in the shape of Lynton Crosby.

:12:29.:12:37.

He has worked with significant figures in America, I'm thinking of

:12:37.:12:42.

Rahm Emmanuel, zees he work well with people with sharp elbows?

:12:42.:12:49.

Messina has always been the mechanic or deputy to these

:12:49.:12:55.

strategists who are close to the principal. David Axlrod was

:12:55.:12:58.

communicating with Obama and setting the strategy, and Messina

:12:58.:13:03.

was executing it, that was his role. Thank you very much indeed. She

:13:03.:13:07.

liked it, she paid for it, but she can't have it. Not if the British

:13:07.:13:11.

Government has its way any way. A row is brewing over the fate of a

:13:11.:13:16.

ring that once belonged to the British author, Jane Austen, she of

:13:16.:13:20.

Pride and Prejudice and �10 fame. The American popstar Kelly Clarkson

:13:20.:13:26.

bought it at auction last year, she paid �150,000 for it. But the

:13:26.:13:30.

Culture Minister, Ed Vaizey, has put an export bar on the ring to

:13:30.:13:35.

stop it leaving the UK. # My life

:13:35.:13:42.

# Would suck # Without you It was a line that Mr

:13:42.:13:48.

Darcey never used, but even without Jane Austen's modern literary

:13:48.:13:53.

tongue, recent adaptations of her work have been as regular as

:13:53.:13:57.

flirtatious dances at a high society dance. Nothing symbolises

:13:57.:14:01.

Jane Austen's position as national treasure, quite as much as the Bank

:14:01.:14:06.

of England's recent announcement to use her face on the �10 note. Has

:14:06.:14:11.

all this veneration gone too far. Some feel the Government's decision

:14:11.:14:15.

to stop Kelly Clarkson taking one of Jane Austen's rings out of the

:14:15.:14:20.

country, pending a UK bid is well bad manners, quite frankly but for

:14:20.:14:24.

now if you live in the UK and you have �150,000 lying around, you

:14:24.:14:29.

could own a piece of British history. Oh and ruin the day of a

:14:29.:14:35.

global superstar while you are at it. I'm joined by two historians,

:14:35.:14:41.

Kate Williams who has a Gollum-like fascination to hang on to the ring,

:14:41.:14:45.

and my other guest who doesn't care where it goes as long as it has a

:14:45.:14:50.

good home. Why is it so important that we hang on to it? It is a ring

:14:50.:14:54.

that is really vital. Austen had a modest lifestyle, she didn't have

:14:54.:14:58.

many items. There were only three pieces of jewellery she had and

:14:58.:15:02.

this is one of them. It is so vital to know her as a person and see the

:15:02.:15:10.

things she had around her. We know she had this, she passed to her

:15:10.:15:14.

"dear Cassandra" whom she wrote to so much. This had a massive impact

:15:14.:15:19.

on her imagination, as a wriert the things around you have an impact.

:15:19.:15:23.

It is such a lovely love story, there is this man who loves this

:15:23.:15:26.

woman, Kelly Clarkson, who loves Jane Austen, so she goes and has

:15:26.:15:30.

the ring from him. Jane Austen would have approved of that

:15:30.:15:34.

wouldn't she? I do feel for poor Kelly Clarkson, obviously she

:15:34.:15:38.

bought the ring at auction and expected to have it. This happens a

:15:38.:15:42.

lot, there are a lot of export bans on items the British Government

:15:42.:15:46.

believe belong here in an institution and they put them out.

:15:46.:15:50.

If nobody can give the �150,000 Kelly can keep it for herself, she

:15:50.:15:54.

has agreed to sell it, but she accepts the fact it might have to

:15:54.:15:59.

stay in the UK. We have seen a lot of things overseas because money

:15:59.:16:03.

couldn't be raised, expensive things that cost millions. �150,000

:16:03.:16:08.

is not that much. For me the estimate for this was about �30,000,

:16:08.:16:12.

we should have thought more carefully before putting it on sale

:16:12.:16:16.

to offer it to anyone who wanted it. Why are you so much more relaxed

:16:16.:16:19.

about this? Because I don't think this is a national treasure sure. I

:16:19.:16:23.

think these are the sort of things we bandy about the terms of things

:16:23.:16:27.

we need to keep, perhaps if we were talking about a Turner I would feel

:16:27.:16:31.

differently or her manuscripts, this is just a trinket that she

:16:31.:16:35.

owned. But one of three, she didn't have much bling has was said?

:16:35.:16:39.

don't know her as a fashion icon but as a writer. This is not

:16:39.:16:43.

relevant really to the story. I think actually the question of you

:16:43.:16:47.

know which historic items we want to hold on to, there has only been

:16:47.:16:53.

three temporary export bans apart from this, all random things. At

:16:53.:16:57.

the same time there is a question about ownership, she has fairly

:16:57.:17:00.

legally procured this and paid for it. If the Government felt so

:17:00.:17:04.

strongly about it and it was so important to keep it they should

:17:04.:17:07.

have intervened to stop the sale or purchase it. It is interesting

:17:07.:17:10.

isn't it, if you believe this should stay in Britain because of

:17:10.:17:15.

the British heritage, we have museums filled with stuff that

:17:15.:17:20.

belongs to other countries. The Queen in her own Treasury has a

:17:20.:17:24.

large diamond the Indians would like back. If you carry that to its

:17:24.:17:28.

conclusion and someone has a passionate link why send them all

:17:28.:17:32.

back? I wouldn't disagree we have to engage carefully with what we

:17:32.:17:35.

have in our museums, and whether or not things like the Elgin Marbles

:17:35.:17:40.

should go back. These are important questions we have to deal with as a

:17:40.:17:46.

wider question with heritage. For me this is a vital part of her life.

:17:46.:17:49.

Nowadays we are throw-away about our objects, we have objects around

:17:49.:17:54.

us, we recycle them or put them on Ebay. In the 18th century we had

:17:54.:17:57.

few things, even the upper middle- classes had few items. What they

:17:57.:18:01.

did have was vested with a huge amount of significance, in Austen's

:18:01.:18:06.

novels the objects are invested with so much significance, there is

:18:07.:18:12.

a whole section in Mansfield Park where Fanny bonders for pages about

:18:12.:18:16.

which change to wear. That is because rings, objects, items were

:18:16.:18:19.

vital to women of Austen's time. Even though we haven't writing

:18:19.:18:24.

about it in a book, it would have impacted a lot on her creative

:18:24.:18:28.

imagination. That is an exposure of the woman she was. She's enigmatic,

:18:28.:18:32.

it is hard to know much about her, because she put her heart and soul

:18:33.:18:37.

into her books. Do you understand why she inhabits the place that

:18:37.:18:42.

Kate describes, why she is on the �10 note? I understand that and I

:18:42.:18:45.

understand the point about material possessions, but I think this is a

:18:46.:18:49.

political argument. This isn't toe do with the value of this object.

:18:49.:18:53.

This is about the fact that she has been put on the �10. In practice

:18:53.:18:57.

actually this object it doesn't have that great cultural

:18:57.:19:01.

significance to us. The point you raised about the Elgin Marbles you

:19:01.:19:06.

raised is crucial, this is posturing to say we have to keep

:19:06.:19:11.

the things that are our's and not our's as well. It is greedy above

:19:11.:19:15.

all things and hypocritical. I just wonder whether I detect somewhere

:19:15.:19:19.

in your voice feeling that maybe she's a little overrated is that

:19:19.:19:23.

why you are quite as laissez faire about it? I'm not laissez faire

:19:23.:19:28.

about historical objects at all, I like Persuasion particularly and

:19:28.:19:32.

like Jane Austen very much. I think the heart of this isn't about

:19:32.:19:34.

whether this is the care for the historic object, of course these

:19:35.:19:38.

things must go where they are going to be cared for and preserved,

:19:38.:19:42.

completely agree with that. That is not what's at stake here, what is

:19:42.:19:45.

at stake is a question about nationalism and investing national

:19:45.:19:48.

pride in an object that has actually been legally procured when

:19:48.:19:57.

some of the other objects we were talking about were not. I hear you

:19:57.:20:01.

are starting a whip round? I am, and lots of people joining in, and

:20:01.:20:05.

saying let's go for it and join together. Obviously if it was going

:20:05.:20:09.

to �29 million I wouldn't have a chance, but if someone comes

:20:09.:20:13.

forward with �150,000 they have to give it to an institution for 100

:20:13.:20:17.

days of the year, so it will be shown for 100 days of the year. To

:20:17.:20:23.

me this is a vital national object and it shows a lot about one of our

:20:23.:20:26.

greatest authors. President Shimon Peres is the

:20:26.:20:29.

world's oldest head of state. He has served as his country's Prime

:20:29.:20:33.

Minister twice in his own right and once as interim Prime Minister. It

:20:33.:20:37.

has been a long political career which has seen the one-time hawk

:20:37.:20:43.

who helped establish Israel's nuclear programme turn into a dove.

:20:43.:20:48.

Awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994 after signing the Oslo accord.

:20:48.:20:53.

As he celebrates his 90th birthday, we travelled to Israel to ask what

:20:53.:20:56.

he thought of his legacy and whether he believed the chances for

:20:56.:21:03.

a two-state solution had life in them yet?

:21:03.:21:07.

# Happy birthday to you # Happy birthday

:21:07.:21:11.

Reaching 90 is a landmark for anyone. But the birthday party for

:21:11.:21:21.

this President was something else. A spectacle. His friends and family

:21:21.:21:27.

came from far and wide. It is his birthday, he's 90, now he's

:21:27.:21:34.

President, what comes next? Well, we in Britain have our Queen and

:21:34.:21:44.
:21:44.:21:44.

you have your Shimon. Shimon Peres was born in what was

:21:44.:21:51.

then Poland in 1923. The son of a librarian and timber merchant. His

:21:51.:21:56.

family migrated to the Middle East in 1934 during the British mandate

:21:56.:22:00.

of Palestine. It wasn't long before he stood with the men tasked it

:22:00.:22:03.

with building the state of Israel. Includinging its first leader,

:22:03.:22:11.

David Ben-Gurion. At 29 Peres became the youngest-

:22:11.:22:13.

ever Director General of the Defence Ministry. It became his

:22:14.:22:21.

mission, building Israel's military might. I did what was the most

:22:21.:22:28.

essential thing, they say I was buying out, I was buying life.

:22:28.:22:34.

you played a key role as Director General of the military it was

:22:34.:22:36.

absolutely important that Israel developed as a military power in

:22:36.:22:41.

the region? Yes, to defend ourselves, we were alone. Nobody

:22:41.:22:48.

came on to our side. We were 650,000 people. There are 40

:22:48.:22:54.

million Arabs, we are outgunned, outnumbers. The country was poor,

:22:54.:23:00.

no land, no water, no houses. What should we have done? People speak

:23:00.:23:06.

as though you have a choice, we didn't have a choice.

:23:06.:23:12.

Today Israel has the most advanced military in the Middle East.

:23:12.:23:18.

Including figure air power. The man who bought the first plane is still

:23:18.:23:28.
:23:28.:23:29.

ring side. When another class of airmen and women graduate. Even on

:23:29.:23:34.

days when Israel's talking about making peace it is showing off its

:23:34.:23:37.

formidable defences, that is what it has always been here. Not just

:23:37.:23:44.

about peace, but peace and security. The two have always been left-wing

:23:44.:23:52.

-- linked in the life of Shimon Peres. He was a hawk as long as

:23:52.:23:56.

there was a danger to Israel. I didn't change, the situation

:23:56.:23:59.

changed, if somebody wants to kill you you are a hawk, if somebody

:23:59.:24:05.

wants to make peace with you you are a dove, as simple as that.

:24:05.:24:10.

In the early years the hawk prevailed. Peres was the driving

:24:10.:24:15.

force behind the construction of a highly-secretive nuclear site in

:24:15.:24:18.

the late 50s. He did it despite fierce opposition at home and

:24:18.:24:24.

abroad. To this day Israel has still not officially confirmed the

:24:24.:24:30.

extent of its nuclear capability. You pushed almost singlehandedly to

:24:30.:24:35.

give Israel that nuclear power. What happened? Where is the

:24:36.:24:42.

opposition? And now ...You Feel vindicated now? I really tried to

:24:42.:24:49.

build a nuclear option in order to get peace. Not to get bombs. And I

:24:49.:24:56.

think it achieved the purpose. I think peace started because some

:24:56.:25:01.

people thought that we have things that we don't have or may have it

:25:01.:25:05.

doesn't matter. I never thought in military terms. So this is Shimon

:25:05.:25:10.

Peres's view on it, you can make peace as long as you are sure that

:25:10.:25:19.

Israel can win any war? No that Israel, but our enemies came to the

:25:19.:25:26.

conclusion they cannot destroy us. In its 65 years Israel has gone to

:25:26.:25:33.

war in every decade. Done battle against Arab neighbours and

:25:33.:25:39.

Palestinians. Always insisting it acted in self-defence. Always

:25:39.:25:49.

accused of aggression and occupation. But two decades ago the

:25:49.:25:54.

guns fell silent. At least for a moment. Trying to make peace became

:25:54.:26:02.

the best defence against war. we are doing today is more than

:26:02.:26:10.

signing an agreement. It is a revolution. Yesterday a dream today

:26:10.:26:16.

a commitment. September 1993 and enemies came together on the White

:26:16.:26:21.

House lawn. Israeli and Palestinian loaders put their signatures to the

:26:21.:26:26.

Oslo accords. An interim deal on sharing the land, intended to move

:26:26.:26:32.

them towards a more peaceful co- existence. Both Prime Minister

:26:32.:26:38.

Yitzhak Rabin and Foreign Minister, Peres, had made a strategic shift.

:26:38.:26:42.

But two decades on the two sides still haven't signed a final peace

:26:42.:26:48.

deal. And the US is still trying to broker one. Now it's thek Secretary

:26:48.:26:56.

of State John Kerry who is doing the shuttling. For the Palestinians

:26:56.:27:03.

involved in this protracted process settlement building remains a major

:27:03.:27:07.

obstacle. Mr Peres's greatest mistake was to show tolerance to

:27:07.:27:13.

settlers. Very unfortunate. They felt they could have both. Shimon

:27:13.:27:17.

Peres thought they could have settlements and peace. Mr Peres you

:27:17.:27:20.

can't. I have told him many times, the choice is between settlements

:27:20.:27:30.
:27:30.:27:35.

or peace? Some of the first Jewish settlements in the West Bank were

:27:35.:27:40.

built when Peres was Defence Minister, settlement building on

:27:40.:27:43.

occupied land is regarded as illegal under international law,

:27:43.:27:46.

but it has never stopped. Recent Israeli Government figures show

:27:46.:27:53.

construction is at a seven-year high. Those who listen to you

:27:53.:27:59.

talking about peace expect you to be more critical of settlement

:27:59.:28:03.

building. They look back saying the first settlements were built on

:28:03.:28:10.

your watch, some of the first in the 1970s? When my party lost there

:28:10.:28:20.
:28:20.:28:25.

were in Israel 22 settlements with, I think, 6,000 people. So it was

:28:25.:28:32.

building settlements. When you compare the 6 ,000 to 350,000.

:28:32.:28:37.

Palestinians say you can't discuss the land for a Palestinian state

:28:37.:28:43.

while Israel continues to build settlements on it. How do you

:28:43.:28:47.

reconcile that contradiction? are solutions. First of all the

:28:48.:28:52.

Palestinians agreed there will be three blocks. There are Jewish

:28:52.:28:58.

settlers on the West Bank and they can remain, that was a proposal

:28:58.:29:06.

introduced by President Clinton, it was right and acceptable. And you

:29:06.:29:16.
:29:16.:29:19.

know in my experience negotiations are not trading, negotiations are

:29:19.:29:24.

creating, namely to have new solutions. The search for new

:29:24.:29:27.

solutions is what drives the new peace talks that have just started

:29:27.:29:32.

in Washington. Peres watches this closely. But in his role as

:29:32.:29:36.

President there is only so much he can do.

:29:36.:29:39.

In your relationship with Benjamin Netanyahu, do you truly believe

:29:39.:29:42.

that he shares your idea of a two- state solution? He didn't start

:29:42.:29:49.

with the two-state solution, you know, the Likud was not for the

:29:49.:29:53.

two-state solution. For me his declaration that he is for a two-

:29:53.:29:57.

state solution is at least an ideolgical step forward, which I

:29:57.:30:00.

appreciate. But he doesn't have a kind of cabinet that can make peace.

:30:00.:30:07.

Most of it is against the two-state solution? Look he is running his

:30:07.:30:13.

party and his considerations. Maybe I look upon it differently, so

:30:13.:30:22.

what? Look I can do what I can do, there is no dictator in our country.

:30:22.:30:30.

I can't give orders. My wish is really peace between two peoples

:30:30.:30:38.

who deserve it, who need it, who can do it. Many say time is running

:30:38.:30:43.

out to make peace. Now in the twilight of his career, Shimon

:30:43.:30:48.

Peres may never achieve his life's ambition. He knows that. But it

:30:48.:30:54.

won't stop him from trying. So it can be done, in your time? Yes,

:30:54.:31:04.
:31:04.:31:04.

sure. That's all we have time for, have a

:31:04.:31:14.
:31:14.:31:38.

Hello there, it may not be the headline you would like for the

:31:38.:31:43.

weekend, but we are back to sunny spells and scattered showers. The

:31:43.:31:47.

showers isolated first thing on Saturday, persistent rain up into

:31:47.:31:51.

the far North West and here a stronger wind. By the middle of the

:31:51.:31:54.

afternoon we will still have a scattering of showers across

:31:54.:31:56.

Northern Ireland and Scotland. Sheltered eastern areas should see

:31:56.:31:59.

the best of the breaks in the cloud and the dryer weather and

:32:00.:32:04.

temperatures reflecting this with 18-19. Largely fine and dry with

:32:04.:32:10.

decent shun shine. A pleasant feel to things, a breeze in the north of

:32:10.:32:14.

England. Showers more organised in bands stretching across the

:32:14.:32:18.

Midlands and towards the north of London. Sandwiched either side

:32:18.:32:21.

there will be sunshine and warmth. Here the temperatures into the mid-

:32:21.:32:25.

20s, some of the showers down through the south west could be

:32:25.:32:29.

fairly potent, maybe with the odd rumble of thunder, as in the

:32:29.:32:32.

southern part of Wales. With the showers you may be lucky and escape

:32:32.:32:35.

them and enjoy decent sunshine. The showers will continue to fade away

:32:35.:32:39.

during Saturday. A quiet night and the best of the sunshine to come on

:32:39.:32:42.

Sunday through sheltered eastern areas. A few more showers to the

:32:42.:32:45.

North West, more organised rain arriving to the extreme south-west

:32:45.:32:49.

Why is Obama's election guy going to work for Cameron? Should Jane Austen's ring be sold to America? And Israeli president Shimon Peres on his 90th birthday.


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