02/08/2013 Newsnight

Jim Messina led Barack Obama back to the White House, he's a lifelong

Democrat. Ladies and gentlemen the re-elected President of the United

States. And now he's coming here to work for David Cameron. If a man

like this is willing to work for Team Cameron, what does that say

about Team Miliband, Allegra broke the story. This is shaping up to be

the longest campaign in British electoral history, but is only one

side preparing. And what links Jane Austen with an American Pop Idol.

The answer Kelly Clarkson, who has bought Jane's ring at auction, she

can't take it out of the country. Is it our pride or prejudice. And

Shimon Peres, the man with the strange power to turn Tony Blair

into Maureen Lipman. It's his birthday, he's 90, now he's

President, what comes next? After a lifetime fighting for Zionism, we

ask the Israeli president about the odds of peace in his time? British

politics seems to be turning slowly into the Premier League, dominated

by expensive foreign stars. We can reveal that Barack Obama's campaign

manager, Jim Messina, is the latest high-profile signing. With the long

and gruelling election campaign on the way the Lib Dems are being led

by a South Africa, the Tories from an Australian with help from his

new American friend. With Labour? By no-one at the moment. Our

political editor got the story. First time round was one thing, but

getting re-elected the second time round was quite something again.

One man devoted his every waking hour to that task, this man, at the

microphone. Ladies and gentlemen the re-elected President of the

United States Barack Obama. The man that got President Obama re-elected

is about to try to do the same for David Cameron. Newsnight can reveal

that President Obama's campaign manager is now joining the

Conservatives' 2015 general election team. Jim Messina has an

impressive CV and boasts never having lost an election. But it is

simpler than that, he got the most powerful man in the world re-

elected and David Cameron wants a piece of that. Jim Messina is a

lifelong Democrat, a political campaigner while at university, by

2008 he had been made deputy Chief of Staff in President Obama's White

House. He was described as the most powerful man you have never heard

of. But it is campaigning not governing that excites Messina. In

2011 President Obama asked Messina to leave the White House in order

to get the whole team back in the election of 2012. Messina decamped

to Chicago. I wanted to take a minute...The Re-election strategy

involved with communicating with vast numbers of activists through

regular video memos like this one. Hi everyone, it is Jim Messina, the

President's campaign manager. I wanted to spend a minute talking to

you about what we are building on the ground and give you a behind

the scenes look at the maps. Messina of the architect of that

effort. What he did was he and the rest of the Obama team built one of

the most robust turnout operations in the history of presidential

politics. Essentially they went out and found anyone who was even

remotely inclined to support him through e-mails and social media

and just actually canvasing on the ground and communities throughout

the country. They were able to I want you to have a quick update.

That is one part of the Messina mix, part-geek, will you about part-

political assassin. Look at this attack ad. # Oh beautiful # Forever

waves of grey. Messina told President Obama that the 2012

election would not resemble the hopey-changey thing of 2008.

America # America This time they had to get

their hands dirty. There is a pap port between the

Tories and the Democrats. David Cameron flew to the states in 2012,

attending this basketball match in the swing seat of Ohio, it was

basically an endorsement trip. America is also one of the very few

countries that has re-elected its Government since the economic

crisis. This is something the Replicate. Tonight Tories are

insisting Messina reports to campaign strategy with Lynton

Crosby, sending advice to him from America. Cross Over controls the

message, Messina the technique. This division of labour may not

last, but right now the pressure is on the opposition. This evening one

of my Labour sources said the party had been spooked by the appointment

of Jim Messina. That their leader has been caught woefully short.

Where as David Cameron has a multitude of general election

advisers hailing from all sides of the political spectrum, Ed Miliband

currently has none. I'm going to bring Jim Messina back up. Punching

home how critical hard facts are to a successful campaign, Messina is

fond of saying "we have the math, they have the myth". Now the Tory

Party has both. A man with mythical status who loves his maths. Allegra

is here now. Is this really a game- changer? It has sent shockwaves

through Westminster, even though Westminster is actually in exodus

in different parts of the world on holiday. I actually had within

minutes of our story breaking somebody contact me from their

poolside on holiday to vent. A Labour source saying this is

outrageous, we have no campaign manager, where as they basically

have two or maybe more however you count them. And since Tom Watson

resigned from his role a few months back this has been an obviously

vacant role that has not been filled. There is real fury in

Labour ranks. Even amongst loyalists to Ed Miliband, people

have close to him, they do acknowledge that Messina's skills

are really, really rather awesome and that they haven't yet got

anybody yet to fill that role. can talk further about this. We are

joined from New York by Ben Smith the Editor in Chief of Skup --

buzzfeed.com, and here in the studio with Dan Hodges who writes

for the Telegraph and Statesman. Can I start with you Ben, there is

quite a bit of hype around this man, does he live up to it? He's

American and political operative. Not from the high-end Washington

grand strategy but really from rural Montana where he came up

doing hard-fought knife-night local races. He got in trouble for

running essentially anti-gay ed ands against a Democratic rival out

there. He was not the ideas or message of the Obama operation, he

was the guy who managed the campaign in 2008 behind the scenes.

In 2012 he took over and ran the details of an incredibly

sophisticated campaign. He put a lot of faith in big data, not so

much in communicating on the Internet but using the data to

understand who the voters were. There is a campaign for labour

writing to Obama about how unhappy they are of him going to work for

the Tories. Would he have done this with President Obama's permission?

There is no doubt. That is hugely significant? It is, I think what's

concerning the Labour people is there is now a real sense of a sort

of feeling of men against boys as we enter the election running. The

significant thing about Messina's appointment which sits alongside

the appointment of Lynton Crosby. Is what you see from the Tory side

is the Tories building a campaign team around senior experienced

campaign political strategists. Now Labour has been looking to beef up

its communications operation, but at the moment it is looking to

expand its press team. I think there is a real concern that Labour

has actually quite good press operations in relation to the

Tories but it doesn't have anyone to manage the grand strategy. That

is concerning people on the Labour side. It is also the tardiness of

them realising that there is an election in 2015, that seems to

have shocked a lot of people. The Tories are way ahead, they are

starting now. When will Labour get into gear on this? That is the

question, we have certainly seen from the start of the year, the

year started with a lot of people effectively writing off the Tories,

as the years has gone on, since Lynton Crosby has come on board, we

have seen the Tories nailing down issue after issue after issue, from

the economy to welfare. We have seen Labour's double-digit poll

lead narrowing, and people on the Labour side are questioning whether

Labour will be in the game in a year or 18 months time.

mentioned Ben that his is this geeky magic, he likes big data and

big bucks. Let's not forget how much they spent on their campaign.

We neither have that kind of money in our campaigns or that sea of

data he likes to mine so much. How much use will he be? I think lot of

the data is available on Facebook in commercial databases in all the

places they looked in, with the Obama campaign building early. It

is hard to see how the British operation could afford the tens of

millions of dollars that Obama spent over the course of a couple

of years putting together a database of voters and activating

them. That is a real difference. Democrats care a fig whether one of

their shining stars is coming over here to work for the Conservatives?

I don't think there are many voters turning on Obama because of who he

supports. Part of his appeal has been generational, that is a link

to Cameron, that he's a new generation figure. It is

interesting that people can be spooked so quickly by the mention

of this name. Let's look at some of the examples, David Axlrod he was

Bill Clinton's adviser, he went to work for Mario Monti and he limped

in fourth position, it is not the magic wand? It is not, all the

political parties are chasing the Holy Grail of the Obama-style

campaign, it is difficult to run that without Obama. Also, although

this has sent shockwaves through the dispersed Westminster

establishment as Allegra said, there is a danger to overstate this.

Political campaigns at the end of the day are won by the principals

rather than the advisers. People always say where would Tony Blair

have been without Alastair Campbell or Peter Mandelson. But the truth

is where would Peter Mandelson and Alastair Campbell be without Tony

Blair. The problem for Labour's perspective if you stand Cameron

against Ed Miliband at the moment, that is not reassuring many people

on the Labour side either. To you Ben Smith, how will he work with

another silverback, another alpha male in the shape of Lynton Crosby.

He has worked with significant figures in America, I'm thinking of

Rahm Emmanuel, zees he work well with people with sharp elbows?

Messina has always been the mechanic or deputy to these

strategists who are close to the principal. David Axlrod was

communicating with Obama and setting the strategy, and Messina

was executing it, that was his role. Thank you very much indeed. She

liked it, she paid for it, but she can't have it. Not if the British

Government has its way any way. A row is brewing over the fate of a

ring that once belonged to the British author, Jane Austen, she of

Pride and Prejudice and �10 fame. The American popstar Kelly Clarkson

bought it at auction last year, she paid �150,000 for it. But the

Culture Minister, Ed Vaizey, has put an export bar on the ring to

stop it leaving the UK. # My life

# Would suck # Without you It was a line that Mr

Darcey never used, but even without Jane Austen's modern literary

tongue, recent adaptations of her work have been as regular as

flirtatious dances at a high society dance. Nothing symbolises

Jane Austen's position as national treasure, quite as much as the Bank

of England's recent announcement to use her face on the �10 note. Has

all this veneration gone too far. Some feel the Government's decision

to stop Kelly Clarkson taking one of Jane Austen's rings out of the

country, pending a UK bid is well bad manners, quite frankly but for

now if you live in the UK and you have �150,000 lying around, you

could own a piece of British history. Oh and ruin the day of a

global superstar while you are at it. I'm joined by two historians,

Kate Williams who has a Gollum-like fascination to hang on to the ring,

and my other guest who doesn't care where it goes as long as it has a

good home. Why is it so important that we hang on to it? It is a ring

that is really vital. Austen had a modest lifestyle, she didn't have

many items. There were only three pieces of jewellery she had and

this is one of them. It is so vital to know her as a person and see the

things she had around her. We know she had this, she passed to her

"dear Cassandra" whom she wrote to so much. This had a massive impact

on her imagination, as a wriert the things around you have an impact.

It is such a lovely love story, there is this man who loves this

woman, Kelly Clarkson, who loves Jane Austen, so she goes and has

the ring from him. Jane Austen would have approved of that

wouldn't she? I do feel for poor Kelly Clarkson, obviously she

bought the ring at auction and expected to have it. This happens a

lot, there are a lot of export bans on items the British Government

believe belong here in an institution and they put them out.

If nobody can give the �150,000 Kelly can keep it for herself, she

has agreed to sell it, but she accepts the fact it might have to

stay in the UK. We have seen a lot of things overseas because money

couldn't be raised, expensive things that cost millions. �150,000

is not that much. For me the estimate for this was about �30,000,

we should have thought more carefully before putting it on sale

to offer it to anyone who wanted it. Why are you so much more relaxed

about this? Because I don't think this is a national treasure sure. I

think these are the sort of things we bandy about the terms of things

we need to keep, perhaps if we were talking about a Turner I would feel

differently or her manuscripts, this is just a trinket that she

owned. But one of three, she didn't have much bling has was said?

don't know her as a fashion icon but as a writer. This is not

relevant really to the story. I think actually the question of you

know which historic items we want to hold on to, there has only been

three temporary export bans apart from this, all random things. At

the same time there is a question about ownership, she has fairly

legally procured this and paid for it. If the Government felt so

strongly about it and it was so important to keep it they should

have intervened to stop the sale or purchase it. It is interesting

isn't it, if you believe this should stay in Britain because of

the British heritage, we have museums filled with stuff that

belongs to other countries. The Queen in her own Treasury has a

large diamond the Indians would like back. If you carry that to its

conclusion and someone has a passionate link why send them all

back? I wouldn't disagree we have to engage carefully with what we

have in our museums, and whether or not things like the Elgin Marbles

should go back. These are important questions we have to deal with as a

wider question with heritage. For me this is a vital part of her life.

Nowadays we are throw-away about our objects, we have objects around

us, we recycle them or put them on Ebay. In the 18th century we had

few things, even the upper middle- classes had few items. What they

did have was vested with a huge amount of significance, in Austen's

novels the objects are invested with so much significance, there is

a whole section in Mansfield Park where Fanny bonders for pages about

which change to wear. That is because rings, objects, items were

vital to women of Austen's time. Even though we haven't writing

about it in a book, it would have impacted a lot on her creative

imagination. That is an exposure of the woman she was. She's enigmatic,

it is hard to know much about her, because she put her heart and soul

into her books. Do you understand why she inhabits the place that

Kate describes, why she is on the �10 note? I understand that and I

understand the point about material possessions, but I think this is a

political argument. This isn't toe do with the value of this object.

This is about the fact that she has been put on the �10. In practice

actually this object it doesn't have that great cultural

significance to us. The point you raised about the Elgin Marbles you

raised is crucial, this is posturing to say we have to keep

the things that are our's and not our's as well. It is greedy above

all things and hypocritical. I just wonder whether I detect somewhere

in your voice feeling that maybe she's a little overrated is that

why you are quite as laissez faire about it? I'm not laissez faire

about historical objects at all, I like Persuasion particularly and

like Jane Austen very much. I think the heart of this isn't about

whether this is the care for the historic object, of course these

things must go where they are going to be cared for and preserved,

completely agree with that. That is not what's at stake here, what is

at stake is a question about nationalism and investing national

pride in an object that has actually been legally procured when

some of the other objects we were talking about were not. I hear you

are starting a whip round? I am, and lots of people joining in, and

saying let's go for it and join together. Obviously if it was going

to �29 million I wouldn't have a chance, but if someone comes

forward with �150,000 they have to give it to an institution for 100

days of the year, so it will be shown for 100 days of the year. To

me this is a vital national object and it shows a lot about one of our

greatest authors. President Shimon Peres is the

world's oldest head of state. He has served as his country's Prime

Minister twice in his own right and once as interim Prime Minister. It

has been a long political career which has seen the one-time hawk

who helped establish Israel's nuclear programme turn into a dove.

Awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1994 after signing the Oslo accord.

As he celebrates his 90th birthday, we travelled to Israel to ask what

he thought of his legacy and whether he believed the chances for

a two-state solution had life in them yet?

# Happy birthday to you # Happy birthday

Reaching 90 is a landmark for anyone. But the birthday party for

this President was something else. A spectacle. His friends and family

came from far and wide. It is his birthday, he's 90, now he's

President, what comes next? Well, we in Britain have our Queen and

you have your Shimon. Shimon Peres was born in what was

then Poland in 1923. The son of a librarian and timber merchant. His

family migrated to the Middle East in 1934 during the British mandate

of Palestine. It wasn't long before he stood with the men tasked it

with building the state of Israel. Includinging its first leader,

David Ben-Gurion. At 29 Peres became the youngest-

ever Director General of the Defence Ministry. It became his

mission, building Israel's military might. I did what was the most

essential thing, they say I was buying out, I was buying life.

you played a key role as Director General of the military it was

absolutely important that Israel developed as a military power in

the region? Yes, to defend ourselves, we were alone. Nobody

came on to our side. We were 650,000 people. There are 40

million Arabs, we are outgunned, outnumbers. The country was poor,

no land, no water, no houses. What should we have done? People speak

as though you have a choice, we didn't have a choice.

Today Israel has the most advanced military in the Middle East.

Including figure air power. The man who bought the first plane is still

ring side. When another class of airmen and women graduate. Even on

days when Israel's talking about making peace it is showing off its

formidable defences, that is what it has always been here. Not just

about peace, but peace and security. The two have always been left-wing

-- linked in the life of Shimon Peres. He was a hawk as long as

there was a danger to Israel. I didn't change, the situation

changed, if somebody wants to kill you you are a hawk, if somebody

wants to make peace with you you are a dove, as simple as that.

In the early years the hawk prevailed. Peres was the driving

force behind the construction of a highly-secretive nuclear site in

the late 50s. He did it despite fierce opposition at home and

abroad. To this day Israel has still not officially confirmed the

extent of its nuclear capability. You pushed almost singlehandedly to

give Israel that nuclear power. What happened? Where is the

opposition? And now ...You Feel vindicated now? I really tried to

build a nuclear option in order to get peace. Not to get bombs. And I

think it achieved the purpose. I think peace started because some

people thought that we have things that we don't have or may have it

doesn't matter. I never thought in military terms. So this is Shimon

Peres's view on it, you can make peace as long as you are sure that

Israel can win any war? No that Israel, but our enemies came to the

conclusion they cannot destroy us. In its 65 years Israel has gone to

war in every decade. Done battle against Arab neighbours and

Palestinians. Always insisting it acted in self-defence. Always

accused of aggression and occupation. But two decades ago the

guns fell silent. At least for a moment. Trying to make peace became

the best defence against war. we are doing today is more than

signing an agreement. It is a revolution. Yesterday a dream today

a commitment. September 1993 and enemies came together on the White

House lawn. Israeli and Palestinian loaders put their signatures to the

Oslo accords. An interim deal on sharing the land, intended to move

them towards a more peaceful co- existence. Both Prime Minister

Yitzhak Rabin and Foreign Minister, Peres, had made a strategic shift.

But two decades on the two sides still haven't signed a final peace

deal. And the US is still trying to broker one. Now it's thek Secretary

of State John Kerry who is doing the shuttling. For the Palestinians

involved in this protracted process settlement building remains a major

obstacle. Mr Peres's greatest mistake was to show tolerance to

settlers. Very unfortunate. They felt they could have both. Shimon

Peres thought they could have settlements and peace. Mr Peres you

can't. I have told him many times, the choice is between settlements

or peace? Some of the first Jewish settlements in the West Bank were

built when Peres was Defence Minister, settlement building on

occupied land is regarded as illegal under international law,

but it has never stopped. Recent Israeli Government figures show

construction is at a seven-year high. Those who listen to you

talking about peace expect you to be more critical of settlement

building. They look back saying the first settlements were built on

your watch, some of the first in the 1970s? When my party lost there

were in Israel 22 settlements with, I think, 6,000 people. So it was

building settlements. When you compare the 6 ,000 to 350,000.

Palestinians say you can't discuss the land for a Palestinian state

while Israel continues to build settlements on it. How do you

reconcile that contradiction? are solutions. First of all the

Palestinians agreed there will be three blocks. There are Jewish

settlers on the West Bank and they can remain, that was a proposal

introduced by President Clinton, it was right and acceptable. And you

know in my experience negotiations are not trading, negotiations are

creating, namely to have new solutions. The search for new

solutions is what drives the new peace talks that have just started

in Washington. Peres watches this closely. But in his role as

President there is only so much he can do.

In your relationship with Benjamin Netanyahu, do you truly believe

that he shares your idea of a two- state solution? He didn't start

with the two-state solution, you know, the Likud was not for the

two-state solution. For me his declaration that he is for a two-

state solution is at least an ideolgical step forward, which I

appreciate. But he doesn't have a kind of cabinet that can make peace.

Most of it is against the two-state solution? Look he is running his

party and his considerations. Maybe I look upon it differently, so

what? Look I can do what I can do, there is no dictator in our country.

I can't give orders. My wish is really peace between two peoples

who deserve it, who need it, who can do it. Many say time is running

out to make peace. Now in the twilight of his career, Shimon

Peres may never achieve his life's ambition. He knows that. But it

won't stop him from trying. So it can be done, in your time? Yes,

sure. That's all we have time for, have a

Hello there, it may not be the headline you would like for the

weekend, but we are back to sunny spells and scattered showers. The

showers isolated first thing on Saturday, persistent rain up into

the far North West and here a stronger wind. By the middle of the

afternoon we will still have a scattering of showers across

Northern Ireland and Scotland. Sheltered eastern areas should see

the best of the breaks in the cloud and the dryer weather and

temperatures reflecting this with 18-19. Largely fine and dry with

decent shun shine. A pleasant feel to things, a breeze in the north of

England. Showers more organised in bands stretching across the

Midlands and towards the north of London. Sandwiched either side

there will be sunshine and warmth. Here the temperatures into the mid-

20s, some of the showers down through the south west could be

fairly potent, maybe with the odd rumble of thunder, as in the

southern part of Wales. With the showers you may be lucky and escape

them and enjoy decent sunshine. The showers will continue to fade away

during Saturday. A quiet night and the best of the sunshine to come on

Sunday through sheltered eastern areas. A few more showers to the

North West, more organised rain arriving to the extreme south-west