05/08/2013 Newsnight


05/08/2013

With Victoria Derbyshire. Will the cost of living decide the next election? Plus, wealth and happiness, the forgotten promise of open coastal paths and the stem cell burger.


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Transcript


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New Government promises on childcare costs, don't alter the

:00:14.:00:19.

fact that British workers and their families are experiencing the

:00:19.:00:22.

fiercest financial squeeze in decade. This wasn't what the future

:00:22.:00:27.

of supposed to be like. A mouth- watering look at the illusion

:00:27.:00:30.

living that will be within everyone's reach in ten years time.

:00:30.:00:33.

The cost of living is territory that Labour would now like to fight

:00:33.:00:37.

the next election on. Shouldn't we all be honest and just admit that

:00:37.:00:41.

expectations for the future are just a fantasy. Do money and power

:00:41.:00:45.

lead to happiness any way? Or just the opposite? Should you really be

:00:45.:00:49.

sharing your time with your loved ones rather than working all hours

:00:49.:00:52.

for material wealth? The Washington power broker, Arianna Huffington

:00:52.:00:57.

thinks so, and is here to make her case.

:00:57.:01:01.

Plus the coastline of England is some of the most stunning in the

:01:01.:01:04.

world, the plan was that you would have the right to walk around all

:01:04.:01:08.

of it uninterrupted if you wanted to, it hasn't happened. Would you

:01:08.:01:18.
:01:18.:01:21.

eat it? The burger grown from the stem cells of a dead cow? Good

:01:21.:01:26.

evening. The cost of living is now set to be one of the key political

:01:26.:01:29.

battlegrounds of the next general election. At the moment inflation

:01:29.:01:35.

is at 2.9%. Yet wages are rising at the last count by just 1%. So

:01:35.:01:38.

British workers are getting poorer and that's going to last for some

:01:38.:01:41.

time. It's one of the reasons why today the Government said it would

:01:41.:01:45.

help working parents with the cost of childcare if it wins the next

:01:45.:01:50.

election. Labour's happy to push the cost of living theme and will

:01:50.:01:53.

go on the assault with it tomorrow, particularly after recent figures

:01:53.:01:58.

showed the economy has finally begun to grow a bit. Our political

:01:58.:02:03.

editor reports. So to bed after a tiring day

:02:03.:02:07.

keeping a watchful eye on the robots. If you closed your eyes in

:02:07.:02:12.

the 60s to think of life in 2013 you would see shiny new kit with

:02:12.:02:17.

money no object. The hands-free vacuum cleaner hasn't materialised,

:02:17.:02:23.

but people still think our standard of living with continue its

:02:23.:02:26.

exsorable rise. Today the Labour Party makes it political, since

:02:26.:02:29.

coming to power they say David Cameron has allowed living

:02:29.:02:33.

standards for a family to fall by nearly �7,000. About the value,

:02:33.:02:41.

they say, of a small car. Labour use ONS figures to show that

:02:41.:02:46.

Prime Minister Cameron has presided over more months of falling wages

:02:46.:02:51.

than any previous Prime Minister, 36 out of his 37 months in the post.

:02:51.:02:55.

Comparing us with other countries Labour use a House of Commons

:02:55.:03:00.

library calculation to suggest that the UK has seen the biggest fall in

:03:00.:03:06.

workers' income of any country in the G7 since 2010. But for far too

:03:06.:03:12.

many wages are falling and prices are risinging. They feel worse off

:03:12.:03:18.

not better off. Far from feeling they never had it so good, millions

:03:18.:03:23.

of people in Britain are thinking are we ever going to have it so

:03:23.:03:27.

good again. There is now a possibility the economy returns to

:03:27.:03:30.

the same sort of solid growth it saw under the previous Government.

:03:30.:03:34.

The coalition parties will say this vindicates the fiscal decisions the

:03:34.:03:38.

Government has taken. The Labour Party will move on to asking, yes

:03:38.:03:43.

there is a recovery, but what kind of recovery will it be? So there

:03:43.:03:47.

might be growth, but will there be a growth in wages? There might be

:03:47.:03:57.

jobs, but what kind of jobs will they be? What does it say?

:03:57.:04:03.

Last year Newsnight told the story of zero-hours contracts, contracts

:04:03.:04:06.

with no fixed hours. One year on research is published estimating

:04:06.:04:10.

one million workers are on these sorts of contracts. The charge is

:04:10.:04:15.

these people may be in work, but can they actually feed a family on

:04:15.:04:18.

a zero-hours contract. The Business Secretary, Vince Cable, is to

:04:18.:04:23.

review their use, keen to match Labour's attack on falling living

:04:23.:04:26.

standards. There are some calculated risks for the Labour

:04:26.:04:31.

Party in pushing this cost of living agenda. The increase in

:04:31.:04:34.

living standards began to falter early in the last Labour Government

:04:34.:04:40.

as this graph shows. Labour' repost is there are difficult -- Labour's

:04:40.:04:43.

repost is there are difficult structural issues to grapple with.

:04:43.:04:46.

These structural issues means some of Ed Miliband's policies will take

:04:46.:04:50.

as long as this roof to bring down the cost of living. We need to look

:04:50.:04:53.

to the future, not squabbling about the past five years. That means

:04:54.:05:00.

putting in place a real plan for growth now and in the next five,

:05:00.:05:04.

ten, 20, 50 years. That is about a global economy and making the UK

:05:04.:05:08.

Labour market competitive. About attracting business to the UK,

:05:08.:05:11.

about reforming welfare, making sure the planning system can build

:05:11.:05:15.

houses, making sure that we begin with the right shops, right places

:05:15.:05:19.

and right high streets, that is what we need to see from Labour,

:05:19.:05:22.

not political points scoring about what has happened in the past.

:05:22.:05:25.

Recent polling for YouGov suggests people have complicated views on

:05:25.:05:30.

what Governments can do about the cost of living. Many of all

:05:30.:05:34.

persuasions agree that living standards can't be sorted out

:05:34.:05:38.

before economic stability has been achieved. The cost of living isn't

:05:38.:05:40.

that important when people are determining whether the economy

:05:40.:05:43.

feels good or bad to them. It is one of the things that goes into

:05:43.:05:46.

the mix along with growth and unemployment. All these things

:05:46.:05:53.

affect the all-important feel food factor -- "feel-good factor", which

:05:53.:05:57.

is what political scientists believe delivers success in the

:05:57.:06:00.

elections. They are not doing well on the cost of living and they are

:06:00.:06:04.

seen as out-of-touch. But are the Labour Party doing any better? That

:06:04.:06:08.

is the crucial bit and the multimillion dollar question.

:06:08.:06:11.

Really they are not. The Government is ahead on economic credibility in

:06:11.:06:16.

opinion poll, but it also knows it has to act to ease the cost of

:06:16.:06:20.

living. Today the Chancellor announced childcare vouchers.

:06:20.:06:26.

is tax-free childcare which will be a real help to working families. We

:06:26.:06:29.

want to help all families, later in this parliament we will be

:06:29.:06:33.

introducing tax breaks for married couples. But this tax-free

:06:33.:06:37.

childcare will be an enormous help for families on struggling budgets

:06:37.:06:43.

and will help with the cost of living.

:06:43.:06:47.

If oddly, that was the Chancellor needing a child to identify green

:06:47.:06:53.

shoots for him. The price for all politicians is in 2030 whether they

:06:53.:06:57.

have helped these kids as they come out of university or into their

:06:57.:07:03.

first job. That little girl could be a fact-checker for a future

:07:03.:07:07.

Chancellor. We asked the Treasury for someone to talk about the cost

:07:07.:07:13.

of living but no-one was available. With us is the shadow Treasury

:07:13.:07:17.

Minister, Chris Leslie, would Labour stop prices rising faster

:07:17.:07:21.

than wages? A number of things need to be done. Would Labour do that?

:07:21.:07:24.

It is notable the Government haven't taken the action we need on

:07:24.:07:28.

price rises. There are two components to the cost of living

:07:28.:07:32.

issue, one is wages and what is happening on those. Price rises are

:07:32.:07:36.

particularly bad when it comes to the monopoly utility things people

:07:36.:07:39.

have to have to get by. The two things I would point to would be

:07:39.:07:42.

the cost for commuters, for example, in terms of transport getting to

:07:42.:07:48.

and from work, and we know that the rail companies have been hiking up

:07:48.:07:52.

prices, astro no mamically, far more than David Cameron -- as no

:07:52.:07:56.

mamically, far more than David Cameron said. There could be

:07:56.:08:00.

regulation on that. You would help on rail fairs and energy, would

:08:00.:08:04.

Labour be able to stop -- rail fares and energy, would Labour be

:08:04.:08:08.

able to stop prices outstripping wages? That is where you get to the

:08:08.:08:12.

combined policies you need to have. On energy, for example, you get rid

:08:12.:08:16.

of Ofgem, the regulator is just not working. We need to make sure if

:08:16.:08:19.

there are falling wholesale energy prices that those are actually

:08:20.:08:23.

passed on to customers much when it comes to wages, what we have to do

:08:23.:08:27.

is make a choice. Do you have an economy that is skewed towards

:08:27.:08:30.

helping the very wealthiest at the top on the backs of everybody else,

:08:30.:08:34.

or do you try to make sure that everybody gets a fair share of any

:08:35.:08:38.

prosperity and growth we can have. We obviously want the latter. That

:08:38.:08:42.

is an economic choice that you have between the political parties. We

:08:42.:08:46.

certainly haven't seen that over the last three years. Can you go

:08:46.:08:49.

into the next election promising that is something that Labour would

:08:49.:08:52.

guarantee? We want to make sure that we address this cost of living

:08:52.:08:56.

crisis. The fact that we can't even get a Government minister on to

:08:56.:09:00.

debate it shows, I think, how ouch out-of-touch the Government are on

:09:00.:09:05.

this particularish -- how out-of- touch the Government are on thisish

:09:05.:09:08.

particular issue. -- on this particular issue. You didn't

:09:08.:09:12.

address it under the last Labour Government? We had a global

:09:12.:09:15.

financial crisis. Living standards began to stagnate in 2003, way

:09:15.:09:19.

before the financial crisis? reaction we had was not just

:09:19.:09:24.

minimum wage and tax credits, but also reducing VAT. What have George

:09:24.:09:28.

Osborne and David Cameron done? They increase VAT to 20% and so

:09:28.:09:33.

more than any other Prime Minister since records began out of his 37

:09:33.:09:39.

months, for 36 of them we have seen prices way, way outstripping wages.

:09:39.:09:42.

In that one month where apparently there was more income, that is

:09:42.:09:46.

because there was a bonus bonanza at the end of the 50p rate. When

:09:46.:09:51.

that 50p rate of cut for millionaires from 50p to 45p all

:09:51.:09:55.

those bonuses came through. He has the worst record of any Prime

:09:55.:09:58.

Minister, anybody in Number Ten since records began. Under a Labour

:09:58.:10:01.

Government are you saying that voters would be worse off, it just

:10:01.:10:05.

wouldn't be quite so bad as you say it is now? We want voters to be

:10:05.:10:08.

better off. We need a Government that focuses on a strategy to

:10:08.:10:11.

actually do something about this now. We heard the Chancellor

:10:11.:10:16.

talking about childcare, maybe in 2015, what use is that to people

:10:16.:10:22.

now in 2013, or even 2014, who are finding it really difficult to make

:10:23.:10:27.

ends meet. It is one of the core differences of philosophy between

:10:27.:10:30.

the political parties. The Government have a laissez faire,

:10:30.:10:33.

let the market solve it all approach, we are saying let's get

:10:33.:10:38.

on with it, roll up our sleeves and do something about it. You don't

:10:38.:10:43.

need to list what the coalition have done, raising the rate to

:10:43.:10:47.

�10,000, freezing council tax for three years, abandoning the rises

:10:47.:10:51.

in fuel duty scheduled in by the last Labour Government, all of

:10:51.:10:54.

which is helping with living standards? Not only are we seeing

:10:54.:11:00.

in this year the level of prices outstripping wages, people are

:11:00.:11:04.

�1350 worse off. That is also, don't forget, there has been tax

:11:04.:11:10.

rise, VAT and others, as well as some of those cuts in benefit of

:11:10.:11:14.

�891 for the typical family. By the end of the parliament the

:11:14.:11:16.

Treasury's own Office for Budget Responsibility are predicting that

:11:17.:11:24.

the level of loss in people's real wages will cumulatively be �6,660.

:11:24.:11:28.

That is a lot of cost, the loss that people will have felt, thanks

:11:28.:11:33.

to David Cameron's ten years in office. And yet voters still trust

:11:33.:11:36.

David Cameron and George Osborne more than they would your leader

:11:36.:11:40.

and your Shadow Chancellor to run the economy? I would dispute that.

:11:40.:11:44.

Why do you think that is? Polls have consistently shown since June

:11:44.:11:48.

2011, why is that? The public have elected a coalition Government.

:11:48.:11:51.

They wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. But I think

:11:51.:11:56.

as time goes on and they see that actually they are worse off, they

:11:56.:11:59.

are out of pocket more and more, they are starting to question

:11:59.:12:03.

George Osborne and David Cameron's credibility on this. For all those

:12:03.:12:07.

big macro-economic figures, it will come down to this, do people feel

:12:07.:12:11.

better off having had David Cameron and George Osborne in office? The

:12:11.:12:15.

figures are suggesting that they will be significantly worse off.

:12:15.:12:21.

Thank you very much. Having established that many of us

:12:21.:12:26.

are going to stay feeling poorer for longer, are we also destined to

:12:26.:12:30.

feel more missable and less successful? It depends how you

:12:30.:12:35.

measure it. According to the Editor in Chief of the Huffington Post.

:12:35.:12:40.

The old model where success is long hours, lack of sleep and constantly

:12:40.:12:44.

checking your e-mails isn't working she believes. We will speak to

:12:44.:12:49.

Arianna Huffington in a moment, along with the creator of Purple

:12:49.:12:55.

Ronny, and Professor Winston, who says as we are descended from apes

:12:55.:13:00.

there is not much we can do about the drivers and ambition. First

:13:00.:13:04.

this. Too much and too long we seemed to have surrendered personal

:13:04.:13:08.

excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material

:13:09.:13:14.

things. Our Gross National Product now is over $800 billion a year.

:13:14.:13:20.

Robert Kennedy gave that critque of GDP as an indicator of America's

:13:20.:13:25.

success in 1968. 42 years later David Cameron said he wanted a

:13:25.:13:31.

whole new measure, GWB, or "general well being". Just as the GDP

:13:31.:13:35.

figures actually they don't give a full story of our economy's growth,

:13:35.:13:39.

but they give us a useful indicator of where we are headed. I believe a

:13:39.:13:43.

new measure won't give the full story of our nation's well being,

:13:43.:13:46.

or our happiness or contentment or the rest of it, of course it won't.

:13:46.:13:51.

It could give us a general picture of whether life is improving.

:13:51.:13:54.

According to Arianna Huffington it is time to redefine success beyond

:13:54.:13:58.

money and wealth, because of the state of the country's mental

:13:58.:14:02.

health. One in four Britons are suffering from anxiety or

:14:02.:14:06.

depression. Andrew Stead thinks she's on to something. He used to

:14:06.:14:10.

be a GDP kind of guy. I was very fortunate, I didn't have to worry

:14:10.:14:13.

about money, I could plan a holiday without really thinking about it.

:14:14.:14:18.

He was a very wealthy banker at Goldman Sachs, now he runs

:14:18.:14:21.

happiness workshops teaching people that money doesn't matter nearly as

:14:21.:14:26.

much as they think it does. Surely only someone who has experienced

:14:26.:14:29.

the Joyce of first class travel would have the nerve to say that

:14:29.:14:34.

money isn't that important? I think it is a very fair point. It is

:14:34.:14:39.

levelled at every single person at every level of society. If you own

:14:39.:14:44.

a yacht you are a member of the yacht club and surrounded by people

:14:44.:14:48.

who own yachts. It is a question of understanding what you want and not

:14:48.:14:52.

wanting to jump on, the jumping in the competition can't continue and

:14:52.:14:56.

at some point it has to stop. We have to accept the level we have to

:14:56.:15:01.

be comfortable and accept that, and it is within reasonably modest

:15:01.:15:04.

means we can open up a huge level of happiness anden gauge in society

:15:04.:15:08.

in a different way. David Cameron's general well being index never

:15:08.:15:16.

materialised, but the Government is publishing happiness data.

:15:16.:15:26.
:15:26.:15:45.

Apparently we are more cheery than The data shows that Britain comes

:15:45.:15:50.

10th in the happiness table, out of the EU's 27 states.

:15:50.:15:53.

Could it have been Danny Boyle, Olympic gold and the Diamond

:15:53.:15:57.

Jubilee that helped the country's mood? Or was last year's drop in

:15:57.:16:01.

unemployment much more significant? The statisticians say they don't

:16:01.:16:05.

know, but the research on the relationship between the economy

:16:05.:16:09.

and happiness keeps changing. think obviously money matters, the

:16:09.:16:13.

question is how much off and for what reason. There has been a lot

:16:13.:16:17.

of back and forth in the research over decades about whether above a

:16:17.:16:21.

certain level, having more money makes you happier. For a long time

:16:22.:16:25.

people seem to think that above a very basic threshold more money

:16:25.:16:29.

didn't make any difference. Now the research has all come back in a

:16:29.:16:33.

different direction and suggesting no, it is worth having more money

:16:33.:16:38.

for your happiness, pretty much indefinitely. If money brings

:16:38.:16:40.

happiness then Sloane Square in Chelsea should be the most chipper

:16:40.:16:46.

place on earth. We asked well seasoned observers of the well-

:16:46.:16:50.

heeled. Most of the people I serve up here don't seem very happeny. I

:16:50.:16:54.

don't know why. Does it surprise that they are not happy? Yeah, if I

:16:55.:17:01.

had a �3 million house I reckon I would be quite happy. I never find

:17:01.:17:08.

them that happy. How do they seem? A little bit miserable, to be

:17:08.:17:13.

perfectly honest. I suppose they work 12-16 hour days to earn that.

:17:13.:17:16.

What does Andrew Stead recommend? Well think happy thoughts and

:17:16.:17:19.

remember to think about them by applying stickers on your gadgets.

:17:19.:17:28.

Well it works for him. Let's speak to three people success

:17:28.:17:32.

by anyone's standards but are they happy. Arianna Huffington is the

:17:32.:17:38.

founder of the Huffington Post. Lord Winston is author of Human

:17:38.:17:45.

Instinct, and also with them is the author of Purple Ronnie, who spent

:17:45.:17:48.

�35,000 of his own money making a short film to cheer up Britain. We

:17:49.:17:53.

will ask if that worked in a moment. First of all, what is happiness and

:17:53.:18:00.

how do you measure it? Well going back to the Greek philosophers,

:18:00.:18:05.

Socrates, others, they talked about flourishing, they linked it a lot

:18:05.:18:09.

to a sense of purpose. The founding fathers in the states talked about

:18:09.:18:13.

the pursuit of happiness in the declaration of independence, it

:18:13.:18:19.

hasn't just the pursuit of having fun, it was again feeling good by

:18:19.:18:23.

doing good. Happiness is something which has to go beyond these

:18:23.:18:29.

measures of success that our culture has endorsed, money and

:18:29.:18:33.

power, the first two measures of success. That's an old model and

:18:33.:18:37.

you are saying that's broken, that doesn't work any more? It is broken,

:18:37.:18:42.

exactly. Who says?The data says it. If you look around here in the UK,

:18:42.:18:47.

or in the US or anywhere in the world you see the data about

:18:47.:18:52.

depression, stress, stress-related diseases, whether it is high blood

:18:53.:18:58.

pressure, diabetes, heart disease, really growing. Here in the UK just

:18:58.:19:03.

in the last year we have data for in one year anti-depressant

:19:03.:19:08.

prescriptions have gone up by over 9%. A third of people say they

:19:08.:19:12.

can't sleep. Sleeping pill prescriptions are sky rocketing.

:19:12.:19:15.

Stress, anxiety disorders, clearly there is something wrong. That is

:19:15.:19:20.

why I think, even though the idea behind having a happiness index is

:19:20.:19:23.

really great, and it would be wonderful to have the conversation

:19:23.:19:25.

we are having here, a national conversation about what it really

:19:25.:19:32.

means and how we can be happier, the data of the survey is really

:19:32.:19:37.

pretty meaningless and it is contradicted by the data I just

:19:37.:19:41.

quoted. Robert Winston do we have time in our Daily lives to have

:19:41.:19:43.

national conversations about happiness? There is something

:19:43.:19:46.

really in what you are saying, what is interesting, I'm not quite sure

:19:46.:19:50.

how old you are Giles, but I suspect that you Victoria and Giles

:19:50.:19:54.

are much more likely to be less happy than you and I are, I'm

:19:54.:20:00.

likely to be the most happy, as you get older it is shown that you get

:20:00.:20:05.

happier and happier until you completely gaga when you are

:20:05.:20:09.

totally happy. Apparently people seem to be least happy in their

:20:09.:20:13.

mid-40s which is when they are striving hardest to keep up. That

:20:13.:20:16.

rather supports your argument. Giles how old are you, and are you

:20:16.:20:21.

the least happy of the three people here? I wouldn't want to presume to

:20:21.:20:28.

assume, I'm 47 and this evening I feel happy. But actually there is

:20:28.:20:32.

definitely data that I have two daughters who are 20 and 24, they

:20:32.:20:36.

are the most stressed generation. A lot of it is to do with technology.

:20:36.:20:41.

The prevalence of technology, the fact that many of us never

:20:41.:20:49.

disconnect has a very deteriorating effect on it. That is part of the

:20:49.:20:52.

old model that you have rejected, but you have subscribed to that

:20:52.:20:57.

model throughout your working life. The long hours and the addiction to

:20:57.:21:01.

the technology. You ran the Huffington Post, still Editor in

:21:01.:21:05.

Chief, on-line newspaper, incredibly successful, sold to AOL

:21:05.:21:09.

for hundreds of millions of dollars, you can reject the model because

:21:09.:21:13.

you have made it? I'm not rejecting the model. We are saying you need

:21:13.:21:18.

to include a third metric, it is not to reject the first two and

:21:18.:21:24.

live in the desert somewhere, but we are going to include if our

:21:24.:21:29.

lives are to be happier and more fulfiling is to include a third

:21:29.:21:35.

metric, our well being, tapping into our own wisdom and make better

:21:35.:21:39.

decisions, a way of looking at the wonder of life, and to give back.

:21:39.:21:44.

These are the four elements that make a more fulfiling life. Let's

:21:44.:21:47.

go with the third metric, will we give it the attention above the

:21:47.:21:51.

other two? That is an interesting question, obviously you have done

:21:51.:21:56.

that with your work because part of it is retaining some of the

:21:56.:22:00.

childlike quality of our lives which we tend to lose in middle-age,

:22:00.:22:05.

but then perhaps regain again when we become grandparents. Do you

:22:05.:22:09.

agree with that? Funnily enough when I think about happiness and

:22:09.:22:12.

what constitutes happiness, I always come up with one word which

:22:12.:22:16.

is playfulness, that is what Robert was talking about. There are all

:22:16.:22:19.

sort of elements that constitute happiness. For me playfulness is

:22:19.:22:23.

one of them. I think we need to look at the very natural way in

:22:23.:22:27.

which children present themselves. We can learn a great deal from them

:22:27.:22:31.

about how we are designed as human beings, about how we should operate,

:22:31.:22:34.

about how we should move forwards. There is quite a lot of evidence

:22:34.:22:38.

that happy children are less likely to be depressed when they are

:22:38.:22:43.

adults. So there is an advantage in having a good, loving, stable

:22:43.:22:48.

relationship as a very young person. There is also, interestingly about

:22:48.:22:52.

the model you are talking about, what some research shows is all you

:22:52.:22:57.

need to do is earn a thousand dollars a year more than your next

:22:57.:23:00.

door neighbour and you will be happier. It is only a thousand

:23:00.:23:05.

dollars, when it guess goes up it doesn't work any more. I don't

:23:05.:23:11.

think there has to be a trade-off. If you go to work places fuelled by

:23:11.:23:15.

burnout and sleep depravation and exhaustion, the leaders don't make

:23:15.:23:18.

good decisions. If you look at the financial meltdown, where were

:23:18.:23:23.

they? Where were the CEOs who missed what was happening. Maybe if

:23:23.:23:28.

they had gotten a good eight hours sleep and done their mediation and

:23:28.:23:32.

yoga. Is it as simple as that?I think at the moment we are led in

:23:32.:23:35.

politics, business and media by many leaders who are exhausted,

:23:35.:23:39.

sleep deprived, burnt out and making terrible decisions. I think

:23:39.:23:43.

if they could take some time to tap into their own wisdom they would

:23:43.:23:47.

make better decisions. It is probably dealing with uncertainty.

:23:47.:23:50.

We are living in an increasingly uncertain world, how we deal with

:23:50.:23:54.

that is really quite important. Religion comes into this, because

:23:54.:23:58.

certainly evidence those that one way of dealing with uncertainty is

:23:58.:24:01.

being religious that tends to reduce the amount of unhappiness

:24:01.:24:05.

that people express, I don't know if it is true. That is widely

:24:05.:24:09.

stated. Giles, can I ask you, you some years ago you went through

:24:09.:24:12.

Cannes, you have experienced depression, do you think that means

:24:12.:24:18.

that you are more able than others to know what happiness is? With

:24:18.:24:22.

cancer perhaps not so much. I had cancer when I was in my early 20s.

:24:22.:24:29.

Depression I think without question, I had that five years ago. It is

:24:29.:24:32.

the most extraordinary sort of violent illness, quite unlike what

:24:32.:24:37.

people who haven't had it might understand the term "depression" to

:24:37.:24:40.

constitute. The one remarkable thing about it which I think is an

:24:40.:24:45.

extraordinary prif lipbl actually is to recover from depression,

:24:45.:24:48.

which almost everybody does as you know. When you recover you look at

:24:48.:24:53.

the world with new eyes, you regain your capacity to experience joy, as

:24:53.:24:58.

if for the first time. I think that is incredibly rewarding. That is

:24:58.:25:03.

really important, in his essay on experience, Montain thanks fortune

:25:03.:25:08.

for having given him the pain of bladder stone, because when he is

:25:08.:25:17.

pain free he understands what is happiness. So in order to

:25:17.:25:20.

understand happiness you have to be unhappy. It wipes your soul clear,

:25:20.:25:24.

it is a privilege to experience joy, for me it is simple human things,

:25:24.:25:29.

it is the connectivity between human beings, love is another way

:25:29.:25:32.

of expressing it. Almost anything that has been written about

:25:32.:25:38.

happiness, love is one of the most fundamental tenets, one of the most

:25:38.:25:41.

fundamental ingredients to the recipe of producing a happy life.

:25:41.:25:46.

Do you think you might be guilty perhaps of imposing this, let's

:25:46.:25:51.

have beds in offices, don't be addicteded to the technology. That

:25:51.:25:55.

might make some people happy, checking their e mails the whole

:25:55.:25:59.

time, are you guilty of imposing what you think makes people happy

:25:59.:26:03.

on others? Firstly there is no imposition, this is a choice that

:26:03.:26:08.

companies make right now in the States 25% of corporations have

:26:09.:26:17.

introduced some form of mindfulness provision. At the Huffington Post

:26:17.:26:24.

we have nap spaces and yoga. A lot of companies have found a

:26:24.:26:29.

correlation of productivity and retention of talent and having

:26:29.:26:34.

employee focus and a work place that is less fuelled by burnout.

:26:34.:26:39.

What they said about gratitude and love, that is ultimately the third

:26:39.:26:43.

metric, if we can bring these into our lives in whatever form that

:26:43.:26:47.

make sense for each one of us, we have lives that are much more

:26:47.:26:49.

fulfiling. Thank you very much, thank you for coming on the

:26:49.:26:53.

programme, thank you. Now if you want to go walking

:26:53.:26:57.

around the coast of England, perhaps that might make you happy,

:26:57.:27:00.

the entire coast, you will have to wait a while, the Government has

:27:00.:27:04.

admitted to us that its target date for a continuous path around the

:27:04.:27:08.

English coast is likely to slip, because not surprisingly it is not

:27:08.:27:11.

a spending priority in the current climate. One of the reasons

:27:11.:27:15.

ministers agreed to the plan in the first place was to encourage more

:27:15.:27:20.

people to use the coastline. Would a continuous path succeed in doing

:27:20.:27:26.

that, as ramblers insist, or would scarce public funds be better spent

:27:26.:27:29.

developing coastal FA tillties that already exist. We begin the journey

:27:29.:27:33.

in Wales, where there has been a continuous coastal path for over a

:27:33.:27:43.
:27:43.:27:45.

year. Unhur yod and uncrowded, this

:27:45.:27:48.

corner -- unhurried and uncrowded, this corner of South Wales has

:27:48.:27:53.

always had pilgrims, drawn by dramatic coastlines and glorious

:27:53.:28:01.

nature, an area steeped in history and poetry. The sunny afternoon

:28:01.:28:10.

yawns and moons through the dozy town. The sea lolls, laps and idles

:28:10.:28:18.

in, with fishes sleeping in its lap. This area reeks of Dylan Thomas,

:28:18.:28:22.

everyone has a tale to tell, they used to babysit his kids, drink

:28:22.:28:27.

over there. We know for sure that these three he isturies and the

:28:27.:28:37.
:28:37.:28:39.

three villages provided a lot of inspiration for some of his work.

:28:39.:28:43.

While the towns are better known and connected, this village has

:28:43.:28:46.

always been off the literary tourist trail, maybe this

:28:46.:28:50.

unassuming piece of tarmac is bringing change to the village. It

:28:50.:28:53.

is the Wales Coast Path, which for the first time directly links the

:28:53.:28:57.

three villages and connects them to a longer route right around the

:28:57.:29:07.

coast of Wales. What is this place? Scotch Bay. It is a mix of

:29:07.:29:10.

traditional path and new construction, 1400kms in all,

:29:10.:29:14.

mostly hugging the coast. It opened just over a year ago. Now I'm not

:29:14.:29:19.

planning on doing the whole thing, but to get a flavour I joined some

:29:19.:29:23.

local enthusiasts. What is the Wales Coast Path doing? What is the

:29:23.:29:29.

purpose of it? It is rather nice that it is uniting Wales. All the

:29:29.:29:32.

orientation for Wales are roads west to east, now we have a path

:29:32.:29:37.

going right round. But the path was also built to attract not just

:29:37.:29:43.

locals, but visitors from further afield. And the main attraction

:29:43.:29:48.

here is where I met Michael on holiday from Manchester, he

:29:48.:29:52.

appreciates the continuity? It is never a steal way, the coastal path

:29:52.:29:57.

for us was a big push. We like to see different views and literally

:29:57.:30:02.

every section of the path has been, the views have been amaze, we have

:30:02.:30:07.

had to stop and take it all in, it has been breath taking. In purely

:30:07.:30:13.

economic terms the Wales Coast Path cost �16 million, it is estimated

:30:13.:30:17.

it added the same amount to the Welsh economy in the first year,

:30:17.:30:22.

when almost three million people used it. Here they hope it will

:30:22.:30:26.

help them benefit more from next year's Dylan Thomas centinary.

:30:26.:30:30.

Already they say a few more visitors are trickling in. We are

:30:30.:30:35.

not overrun by new visitors but any visitor is welcome to a small

:30:35.:30:40.

business, you know. They may spend pennies, but they may spend a

:30:41.:30:46.

couple of pounds, every penny count, it is as simple as that. Wales

:30:46.:30:50.

claims to be the first country in the world to link up its coastline

:30:50.:30:54.

like this. Serious walkers think England should hurry up and do the

:30:54.:30:58.

same. We are afterall an island nation, we have an affinity with

:30:58.:31:02.

the sea. Actually over 30% of our coastline is closed off to us. We

:31:02.:31:06.

want to open it up to allow people not just to go to the honey pots

:31:06.:31:11.

like Brighton Beach but to spread out and enjoy themselves. This is

:31:11.:31:15.

about not just people able to walk over long distances, but for people

:31:15.:31:20.

to go with their grandchildren and wiggle their toes in the sand and

:31:20.:31:30.
:31:30.:31:33.

go rock pooling and own and explore and love their coast again.

:31:33.:31:40.

I have left South Wales for the other side of the Bristol Channel.

:31:40.:31:45.

Here on the coast of Somerset as undiscovered beauty, it is

:31:45.:31:50.

undiscovered because you can't get to it. This is as far as I can go,

:31:50.:31:55.

if I want to carry on and reach the next town of cleave done over there,

:31:55.:31:59.

it is only about three miles along the coast, but all this behind me

:31:59.:32:03.

is private farmland. Right now I need to go back the way I have just

:32:03.:32:08.

come, go all the way around, across the M5 twice to get there. It is a

:32:08.:32:18.
:32:18.:32:20.

total of seven miles. At this spot there is not even a pros posed --

:32:20.:32:25.

proposed coastal route, like many places the path just ends.

:32:25.:32:29.

Hopefully there will be an upgrading of old ones and building

:32:29.:32:36.

of new ones. There are paths around the 4,500kms of coast. The first

:32:36.:32:40.

new stretch around Weymouth Bay and Dorset opened last July in time for

:32:40.:32:46.

the Olympic sailing events. Last month two more stretches in Cumbria

:32:46.:32:50.

and the north-east got the go ahead for construction work to start.

:32:50.:32:56.

DEFRA is currently considering one route in north Norfolk, and will

:32:56.:33:00.

look at five other routes in the coming months. The target by 2019

:33:00.:33:07.

is to complete 1900kms, 40% of the England Coast Path. This is a spot

:33:07.:33:11.

in Somerset where there is a proposed route, but it has less

:33:11.:33:14.

than unanimous support. Julian Browning has farmed this land for

:33:14.:33:18.

30 years, he says he and other farmers already provide routes for

:33:18.:33:22.

walkers to enjoy the coast, they are called permissive paths, we're

:33:22.:33:28.

on one now. We have now got to what I want to show you. It is lovely

:33:28.:33:33.

isn't it? The England Coast path would run along the cliff top,

:33:33.:33:37.

Julian said that would cause him economic loss and simply isn't

:33:37.:33:42.

justified. We get no compensation for being forced to have this path.

:33:42.:33:49.

There are other walks, many other walks. Miles, 75% of this country

:33:49.:33:55.

has got a path around the cliff edge. I don't see why they should

:33:55.:34:00.

want to or have to in these austere times be spending money on putting

:34:00.:34:05.

one in the other 25% when people have plenty of walks to do. Julian

:34:05.:34:09.

will get a chance to object later this year, but something else is

:34:09.:34:14.

more likely to stall the England coast path, budgets. The Government

:34:14.:34:20.

is obliged by legislation to build it at a total cost of �4.5 million,

:34:20.:34:24.

it is not a lot for an infrastructure project. Still the

:34:24.:34:27.

minister responsible admitted to me that with spending cuts looming,

:34:27.:34:32.

there are higher priorities, and that target date of 2019 looks

:34:32.:34:38.

unlikely. If it takes a year or two more to do than we originally

:34:38.:34:43.

planned, it is a noble ambition we will be delivering I think. I want

:34:43.:34:46.

to concentrate on areas where there is the most economic benefit. Like

:34:46.:34:51.

a lot of things, you know, I would love to be able to be playing with

:34:51.:34:54.

a different deck of cards than we inherited three years ago. If that

:34:54.:34:59.

means you have to take longer then we have to. It won't be much longer.

:34:59.:35:04.

The minister bonders if a continuous path is even the best --

:35:04.:35:09.

bonders if a continuous path is even the best way to spend scant

:35:09.:35:12.

resources? There is a small percentage of people who want to

:35:12.:35:17.

walk from Deal to Portsmouth, if they want to do that good, we will

:35:17.:35:20.

have a coastal path in time for them to do that. I'm concerned

:35:20.:35:24.

about the people who can bring maximum benefit to coastal

:35:24.:35:27.

communities and businesses. We have to make cuts, everyone is making

:35:27.:35:31.

cuts, but the Government is also protecting those things that it

:35:31.:35:35.

thinks will bring growth. It is an infrom structure investment, and we

:35:35.:35:39.

think that the coast -- it is infrastructure investment, we think

:35:39.:35:42.

the coastal path is a massive investment for the rural economy.

:35:42.:35:46.

Our coastal towns are some of the most depressed areas, this is a way

:35:46.:35:50.

of bringing resources in. It would be cheap. Both the Government and

:35:50.:35:54.

the ramblers want to get more people to the coast. Where they

:35:54.:36:04.
:36:04.:36:04.

disagree is whether a continuous path is the best way to do it. Here

:36:04.:36:11.

the tribulations of the England coast path seem very far away. One

:36:11.:36:15.

year since the path opened here we couldn't find anyone who thought it

:36:15.:36:21.

was bad idea. They appreciate its unifying quality. It fit with the

:36:21.:36:31.
:36:31.:36:33.

poetry of this place. In a very odd news conference today, a burger,

:36:33.:36:39.

originally grown in a lab in the Netherlands, was fried and eaten in

:36:39.:36:44.

London in front of members of the media. Scientists had originally

:36:44.:36:49.

taken thousands of cells from a dead cow and turned them into

:36:49.:36:55.

strips which they combined to make a beef pattie. It cost thousands of

:36:55.:36:59.

pounds to reproduce, but they believe it could be sustainable way

:36:59.:37:04.

of meeting the global demand for meat. Or we could eat less meat

:37:04.:37:08.

some people say. The inventor of this food is Mark Post. This is

:37:08.:37:13.

just to show we can do it. The technology is there, we can create

:37:13.:37:19.

a hamburger, cook it, eat it. We can make a good argument that it

:37:19.:37:22.

eventually will be ethical and more environmentally friendly. But you

:37:23.:37:30.

no in order to improve it, it will take us probably ten, twenty years

:37:30.:37:34.

to get it into the supermarket. was expecting the texture to be

:37:34.:37:39.

soft, there is a bite to it. There is quite some flavour with the

:37:39.:37:45.

browning. And I know there is no fat in it, so I didn't really know

:37:45.:37:52.

how juicy it will be. But there is quite intense taste. What was just

:37:52.:37:57.

said, the absence is I feel like the fat. You know it is a leanness

:37:57.:38:06.

to it. But the bite feels like a conventional hamburger. Let's talk

:38:06.:38:15.

about the petrie dish pattie with Ken Cook an environmentalist and

:38:15.:38:21.

critic of traditional ago culture, and we have a financial times and

:38:21.:38:24.

food author. Would you eat it Tim? I would try anything once, I'm not

:38:24.:38:29.

sure how it would add to the greater good. You would eat it once

:38:29.:38:34.

but no more. What about you? Absolutely, we all wanted to try it

:38:34.:38:37.

today but there was not enough of it. It will be a long time before

:38:37.:38:42.

there is enough of it. This is the proto-type phase to see if it is

:38:42.:38:46.

even doable. Then it will be up to consumers. Is there any demand that

:38:46.:38:50.

you can detect from consumers? there isn't demand, ultimately when

:38:50.:38:54.

it comes to market if it is not affordable, if they don't like it

:38:54.:38:57.

this will all have been just a science experiment. But the

:38:58.:39:00.

possibility that it would offer something to consumer that rises

:39:00.:39:05.

really out of an understanding of how we produce beef now, at least

:39:05.:39:08.

in the United States, gives me reason to believe that it is worth

:39:08.:39:15.

looking at this technology. Because it could solve some problems.

:39:15.:39:23.

For example, 50,000 pounds of beef was recalled a few days ago in

:39:23.:39:28.

Kansas city, Missouri, because it was infected with a virulant and

:39:28.:39:33.

dangerous strain of E-coli bacteria, it can be fatal for children or

:39:33.:39:36.

those with immune compromised systems. This won't be a problem

:39:36.:39:40.

with this kind of beef in the production phase. We won't see the

:39:40.:39:45.

water use or the CO2 concentrations impacted. We're not going to see

:39:45.:39:51.

the use of hormones, antibiotics or 70% of our arable land still used

:39:51.:39:56.

for beef production. Tim has nodded alongside apart from the last thing

:39:56.:40:00.

where you raised your eyebrows? problem for me, probably is we

:40:00.:40:04.

should be trying to think slightly differently about how we consume

:40:04.:40:10.

meat any way. Eat less of it?Yeah, eat a lot less of it. I love a nice

:40:10.:40:14.

bit of meat, if the price went up and it became more difficult I kind

:40:14.:40:18.

of wouldn't mind. It is so depressing we put all the

:40:18.:40:23.

scientific thought for something in a few years time that quite

:40:23.:40:29.

possibly will give as you hamburger, how utterly depressing. It may have

:40:29.:40:33.

cost �215,000 this time, is it not worth trying? Yes, the proof of

:40:33.:40:36.

concept is terrific. I would rather we would use all this might to come

:40:36.:40:40.

up with ways of making mushrooms taste really fantastic. That is

:40:40.:40:44.

down to you two, you are the food writer and environmentalist? I'm in

:40:44.:40:49.

favour of that. Eating less beef, I know in my family I grew up in the

:40:49.:40:53.

Midwest, my uncles were cattlemen, I spent my summers on cattle

:40:53.:40:58.

operations, I eat a lot less beef now in my family than back then, I

:40:58.:41:02.

think most Americans should. We eat too much. I also think as someone

:41:02.:41:06.

observed at the press conference today is this going to excite

:41:06.:41:10.

vegetarians, and vegetarians should probably remain vegetarians, that

:41:10.:41:14.

is the best thing to do of all. As a technology that could fill the

:41:15.:41:18.

gap we have hundreds of people entering the middle-classes around

:41:18.:41:21.

the world with different aspirations than ours to eat animal

:41:21.:41:24.

protein, we have a growing population on top of that. So if

:41:24.:41:29.

this could provide an option for animal protein that would eliminate

:41:29.:41:32.

other problems, it is worth a proto-type and worth seeing if it

:41:32.:41:36.

could make a difference. science shouldn't gross us out, the

:41:36.:41:41.

idea we are making meat, the news story make people feel creepy, but

:41:41.:41:47.

half the stuff we are eating, particularly in fast food, is so

:41:48.:41:51.

much overmanufactured, the cows have been massively inflated with

:41:51.:41:55.

grain they shouldn't. We don't see it, just a bun with lettuce. In the

:41:55.:41:59.

United States if you wanted today see a feed lot or slaughterhouse

:41:59.:42:04.

facility, good luck getting one of your cameras in, it is kept behind

:42:04.:42:09.

closed doors, that is the ick factor for the beef in the United

:42:09.:42:14.

States that we do eat. My first reaction when I heard about test-

:42:14.:42:18.

tube beef was, that doesn't sound too appealing to me until I gave it

:42:18.:42:23.

a second thought about what it might displace. If it displaces the

:42:23.:42:26.

worst of beef production and provides something that consumers

:42:26.:42:31.

accept is safe, is labelled, it meet all those otherest its, then I

:42:31.:42:34.

think we will see if consumers like it or not and give it a go.

:42:34.:42:39.

might, people might be squeamish about this technology b this lab-

:42:39.:42:45.

grown stuff, as you mentioned the horsemeat scandals with the current

:42:45.:42:48.

production, haven't we? That was truly appalling, what is really

:42:48.:42:51.

interesting is how fast people have forgotten it. Nobody is talking

:42:51.:42:56.

about horse any more? No, that's true and everybody is buying mince

:42:56.:43:01.

beef off the supermarket shelves. As a chef are you keen to try other

:43:01.:43:05.

lab-grown food to use it in your dishes? I don't suppose I would

:43:05.:43:09.

have any objection to it if it was genuinely delicious and an

:43:09.:43:15.

improvement on what we have. I'm more interested in thinking about

:43:15.:43:19.

meat as a luxury good again. That is the real creative challenge I

:43:19.:43:23.

think. But we do like our steaks, don't we, and our sasauges? And a

:43:23.:43:29.

nice burger. That was the problem with the test, no ketchup, no

:43:29.:43:35.

pickles. No fries. Beetroot juice, saffron. Could you have made it

:43:35.:43:40.

taste delicious, there was saffron, beetroot juice and breadcrumbs?

:43:40.:43:47.

Nobody jumped out and said it was delicious. Thank you very much. Now

:43:47.:43:57.
:43:57.:43:57.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 44 seconds

:43:57.:44:42.

That's almost it for tonight, apart from this, as soon as Peter Capaldi

:44:42.:44:48.

was revealed as the new doctor who, the race was on to produce the new

:44:48.:44:54.

sweary YouTube mash-up, this one might be the winner.

:44:54.:45:01.

What happened to me? BEEP time travelled. E-BEEPing enough.You

:45:01.:45:07.

need to shut your BEEPing mouth. Pick up any BEEPing weapon you can

:45:07.:45:14.

and shut the BEEP up. Run you clever boy. BEEP off.I want you to

:45:14.:45:20.

make a bomb and explode it, today. Life it interesting at last, I have

:45:20.:45:24.

been so BEEPing bored for the last two years. It is the end of the

:45:24.:45:34.
:45:34.:45:34.

world as we know it. You are a mouse in a maze. Some parts of the

:45:35.:45:37.

UK were subjected to torrential thundery rain today, but the rest

:45:37.:45:41.

of the week is looking much quieter. It will be a cool start tomorrow,

:45:41.:45:44.

but there will be plenty of morning sunshine. Then clouds going to

:45:45.:45:48.

build, so bright or sunny spells around in the afternoon. Unlike

:45:48.:45:52.

today it is looking mainly dry. The odd rogue shower in Northern

:45:52.:45:56.

Ireland, one or two scattered around the north and North West of

:45:56.:45:58.

around the north and North West of Scotland. In Scotland most will be

:45:58.:46:01.

light and dry and bright weather inbetween. Temperatures close to

:46:01.:46:06.

normal for the time of year. 24 degrees and the warm spot of East

:46:06.:46:09.

Anglia and south-east England. It is a pretty quiet afternoon

:46:09.:46:14.

compared with today across England and Wales, it won't be clear blue

:46:14.:46:18.

skies, bright or sunny spells coming through the cloud. A vastly

:46:18.:46:21.

different day across south-west England and Wales. Some parts of

:46:21.:46:27.

Wales have seen around 75mms, three muchs of rain in the past 24 hours

:46:27.:46:31.

or so. The dryer break will continue as we go deeper into the

:46:31.:46:38.

week. There will be a few showers popping up on Wednesday and

:46:38.:46:43.

Thursday, the odd heavy and slow moving one. It will be hit and mis.

:46:43.:46:46.

With Victoria Derbyshire. Will the cost of living decide the next election? Does wealth bring happiness anyway? Plus, the forgotten promise of open coastal paths and the stem cell burger.


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