20/09/2013 Newsnight


20/09/2013

The stories behind the headlines with Gavin Esler. A UKIP MEP wrecks his party conference with a gaffe rampage, vigilante paedophile hunters, and why Apple are on their way out.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 20/09/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

From Bongo Bongo Land to "sluts" the UKIP MEP who wrecked his own

:00:10.:00:19.

party conference with foot-in-mouth disease. I said "you're all sluts"

:00:19.:00:25.

and we all had a jolly good laugh. Why is that funny? I thought it was

:00:25.:00:28.

funny and everyone in the room thought it was funny, why not ask

:00:28.:00:31.

them why they lost. He lost the whip, has the party lost the plot

:00:31.:00:38.

we will hear from one of Godfrey Bloom's UKIP colleagues. The

:00:38.:00:43.

vigilantes hunting paedophiles. The children groomed for sex on the

:00:43.:00:47.

Internet in their own homes. Is rough justice ever part of the

:00:47.:00:52.

solution. We have the inside story. As BlackBerry tonight shed more

:00:52.:00:57.

than 4,000 jobs one of the top business thinkers tells Newsnight

:00:57.:01:01.

which smart companies will be next to fail. Nokia is essentially gone,

:01:01.:01:07.

BlackBerry is essentially gone. And now Apple is next.

:01:07.:01:18.

Good evening, so it is your big moment as a political leader toe

:01:18.:01:23.

party conference. You promise a political earthquake and suggest

:01:23.:01:27.

your ambitions are almost limitness. Then you find out one of your

:01:27.:01:33.

closest political friends has described women who don't do proper

:01:33.:01:38.

house cleaning "sluts" and hit someone on the head with a party

:01:38.:01:42.

conference programme. Not a scene from a sitcom, but today at the

:01:42.:01:46.

UKIP conference. We have been discussing sluts and other matters

:01:46.:01:50.

with the man at the centre of it all, UKIP MEP, Godfrey Bloom.

:01:50.:01:55.

Britain is going to make the great escape. Good morning. Please

:01:55.:02:06.

welcome Nigel Farage. A hero's welcome for the man making UKIP

:02:06.:02:15.

grow up. Nigel Farage even had the mandatory pumping music, so beloved

:02:15.:02:22.

of our politicians. The day started so well for him. What I suggest we

:02:22.:02:35.

do is we turn the European elections May 22nd and give our as

:02:35.:02:40.

an opportunity to give our opinion on the European Union and open

:02:40.:02:43.

borders. Here we are outside the UKIP conference boozer, moments

:02:43.:02:47.

away from Downing Street and the corridors of power. What would

:02:47.:02:50.

happen if Nigel Farage's party got lucky, very, very lucky, but lucky

:02:50.:02:55.

enough to get anywhere near power in 2015. Is his team ready? The

:02:55.:03:00.

events of today suggest not. Nigel Farage we have just found you in

:03:01.:03:05.

the pub at 3.00, if you were PM you wouldn't be able to do that? Why

:03:05.:03:10.

not. Are you ready for Government, personally? We are not going to be

:03:10.:03:13.

forming a Government in 2015, of course we are not. That is a

:03:13.:03:17.

ridiculous jump to even contemplate, however, if we get our ducks in a

:03:17.:03:22.

row, and we target effectively and sensibly in 2015 we will get a good

:03:22.:03:27.

representation of UKIP MPs over there in Westminster. Who knows,

:03:27.:03:34.

may even hold the balance of power? Nigel Farage has been attempting to

:03:34.:03:38.

clean up his party and equip them with sensible policies. Mere

:03:38.:03:42.

moments later he would suffer a setback in this endeavour. As we

:03:42.:03:47.

were speaks, down the road his economic spokesman was being

:03:47.:03:52.

kippered, or U-kippered. What do you make of the front of the

:03:53.:03:56.

conference brochure with no black comments on it. What a racist

:03:56.:04:00.

comment, that is an appalling thing to say, you are picking people out

:04:00.:04:05.

for the colour of their skin, you disgust me, get out of my way.

:04:05.:04:09.

REPORTER: What is appalling about making that point? You, Sir, are a

:04:09.:04:15.

racist. REPORTER: What is racist? You have taken this and picked out

:04:15.:04:22.

the colour of people's faces, it is disgraceful! He then arrived to see

:04:22.:04:28.

Newsnight, what about other he made at the lunchtime event. Jane

:04:28.:04:34.

Collins the speaker said I don't clean behind the fridge and none of

:04:34.:04:40.

the ladies said they didn't clean behind the fridge, and I said

:04:40.:04:46.

you're all shrults, you are untidy you leave your kit hanging around,

:04:46.:04:49.

has your mother never called you a slut. She has called me other

:04:49.:04:53.

things, but not that. It was no malice, it was a joke, it was all

:04:53.:04:57.

on camera. And if you listen to what was said you will know that

:04:57.:04:58.

on camera. And if you listen to was a joke appreciated by everybody

:04:58.:05:03.

there, men and women alike. A lot of people watching won't like that,

:05:03.:05:07.

do you understand why? It depends, you are skewing this, why not ask

:05:07.:05:09.

the ladies who were there. It you are skewing this, why not ask

:05:09.:05:13.

fun, it was a joke, and most people in Britain have a sense of humour,

:05:13.:05:17.

even if you don't. But there are two sides to UKIP,

:05:17.:05:24.

Diane James stood in and very nearly won the Eastleigh by-

:05:24.:05:28.

election, like Nigel Farage she was not happy with Bloom. Are you

:05:28.:05:29.

election, like Nigel Farage she was saying that when you put a slate of

:05:30.:05:33.

candidates forward in 2015 that they will of your ilk or of Godfrey

:05:33.:05:42.

Bloom's ilk, they are probably listening to him today and being

:05:42.:05:45.

worried. I would say they will be of my ilk, thank you for that

:05:45.:05:49.

compliment. The process we have gone through to select our MEP

:05:49.:05:53.

candidates, I'm sure you will trip me up with Godfrey got through that.

:05:53.:05:57.

The point is over 300 people put their names forward, that was

:05:57.:06:02.

whittled down to over 200, 60 have come through. It was meant to be an

:06:02.:06:07.

upbeat conference, but Farrage accused bloom blom of destroying it,

:06:07.:06:11.

and UKIP -- Bloom of destroying it and UKIP withdrew the whip from him.

:06:11.:06:19.

David Cameron described UKIP once as "fruitcakes" he regrets that now,

:06:19.:06:24.

but Nigel Farage seems to be picking the fruitier bits from the

:06:24.:06:28.

cake, that is a long exercise and my mother could tell him that.

:06:28.:06:33.

I am a joined by Roger Helmer from UKIP. How big a problem do you have

:06:33.:06:38.

with fruitcakes from the party? We have a problem with the remarks

:06:38.:06:43.

Godfrey made sod, I'm not here to defend them. The whole party is

:06:43.:06:47.

saddened. We were having a great conference with some serious stuff,

:06:47.:06:52.

and I quite understand that the whole media story now is Godfrey

:06:52.:06:56.

Bloom. It is a disaster for you? In media presentation of our

:06:56.:06:59.

conference it is not good news. You knew about him after Bongo Bongo

:06:59.:07:03.

Land and other things, you knew and Nigel Farage knew he could be a

:07:03.:07:08.

problem. Why not just get rid of him before, it is about Nigel

:07:08.:07:14.

Farage's leadership? He's a colourful and outspoken character,

:07:14.:07:18.

and we all can be and we have lots of those. Bongo Bongo Land, that is

:07:18.:07:23.

colourful? I thought that was just about liveable with, today it was

:07:23.:07:26.

not liveable with and the party is right to withdraw the whip. Isn't

:07:27.:07:31.

it because it spoiled your conference, not because of the

:07:31.:07:35.

"sluts" comment and the Bongo Bongo Land, that wouldn't have been

:07:35.:07:40.

acceptable. Wouldn't it be acceptable as long as it didn't

:07:40.:07:45.

upstage Nigel Farage, which it did? Godfrey tries to justify it by

:07:45.:07:49.

saying it was a joke, if you listen to the tape everybody there laughed.

:07:49.:07:52.

In the context of the meeting it was accepted as a light-hearted

:07:52.:08:01.

remark. But it shows, in my view, a serious misjudgment, because any

:08:01.:08:04.

politician would know that a light- hearted remark can be picked out

:08:04.:08:08.

and shown on the television in a different situation and everybody

:08:08.:08:11.

says quite rightly that was one wise and not the right thing to say.

:08:11.:08:16.

Saying to somebody from the media "you are a racist" for pointing out

:08:16.:08:24.

of the 200-pictures on your conference programme they are white

:08:24.:08:28.

faces, and then whacking them on the head, that is not a joke? It is

:08:28.:08:33.

not acceptable, and the first line he might have got away with, I

:08:33.:08:36.

don't know, that piece of behaviour, it is the job of politicians to

:08:36.:08:39.

communicate with the public. It is the job of politicians to

:08:39.:08:42.

communicate with the media in an orderly and decent way. And frankly

:08:42.:08:47.

I was shocked when I saw that. Were you also shocked when it was

:08:47.:08:50.

pointed out that all these faces are white, or does that not matter?

:08:50.:08:54.

What I would point out to you is we have a list of 60 candidates for

:08:54.:08:57.

What I would point out to you is we our MEP election next year, and

:08:57.:09:00.

there is a significant number, don't ask me how many, because I

:09:00.:09:05.

haven't added it up, of ethnic minorities and incidentally women,

:09:05.:09:09.

we have women likely to be elected, I'm delighted by that. You don't

:09:09.:09:15.

have a problem the brochure, 200 pictures all of white people? I

:09:15.:09:19.

wasn't aware of that until we saw it on the television. Would you

:09:19.:09:23.

change it now? If we could go back we would do it differently. You can

:09:24.:09:27.

see the image problem, Nigel Farage made a speech very well received in

:09:27.:09:28.

the hall, he talked about wanting made a speech very well received in

:09:28.:09:33.

the country back and people nodding, and people looking at this will say

:09:33.:09:36.

the country you want back might be a country where it is OK to have

:09:36.:09:39.

200 white people and no black a country where it is OK to have

:09:39.:09:42.

people on the brochure and women cleaning behind the fridge? We want

:09:42.:09:47.

a country where women can stand for the Westminster parliament and for

:09:47.:09:51.

the European Parliament, where people of ethnic minorities can do

:09:51.:09:54.

sow and are respected, that applies in our party. This is why we are

:09:54.:09:58.

disappointed by these remarks, as you rightly say. It gives the wrong

:09:58.:10:02.

impression of our party. Just a final thought, will the party be

:10:02.:10:07.

much more disciplined now or if Mr Bloom, who is still a member,

:10:07.:10:11.

continues as a member, people might think it is still OK to say these

:10:11.:10:16.

things. You have to get rid of him, don't you? We are a party with a

:10:16.:10:21.

constitution and rules. It was possible to withdrew the whip on

:10:21.:10:22.

constitution and rules. It was the spur of the moment in an

:10:23.:10:26.

emergency situation, the Party Chairman has the right to do that.

:10:26.:10:29.

The National Executive Committee must consider the situation and

:10:29.:10:32.

must make an appropriate decision. It is not for me to make that

:10:32.:10:35.

decision, they will make that decision and we will see which way

:10:35.:10:37.

it goes. decision and we will see which way

:10:37.:10:42.

Phil Collins a columnist on the Times is here as is Isabel Hardman

:10:42.:10:45.

of the Spectator. Does this matter very much in terms of UKIP's image?

:10:45.:10:49.

I think it does. Godfrey Bloom is the gift that keeps on giving, he's

:10:49.:10:53.

fabulous for us. But I think he does have implications for his best

:10:53.:10:56.

fabulous for us. But I think he buddy Nigel Farage as well. If you

:10:56.:10:59.

think that Mr Bloom is funny talking about fridge cleaning, you

:10:59.:11:04.

should hear him on economics, he's hilarious, he's a nationalist,

:11:04.:11:06.

protectionist, it is closed economy hilarious, he's a nationalist,

:11:06.:11:10.

nonsense. What's happening here is that UKIP are being exposed as a

:11:10.:11:14.

non-serious party. You say that, but this could be a grow-up moment,

:11:14.:11:18.

it could be a moment where the speech which otherwise went down

:11:18.:11:22.

well from the loader of the party ends up with him disciplining, d

:11:22.:11:26.

the leader of the party ends up with him disciplining one of his

:11:26.:11:31.

mates. It was inevitable they would withdrew the whip from Godfrey

:11:31.:11:34.

today, he has greatest hits of odd comments he has been making over

:11:34.:11:39.

the years. I have had a run in with him, he said I would be fine to

:11:39.:11:45.

employ because I could work from home, close to the fridge I would

:11:45.:11:49.

imagine! It was going today, Nigel Farage gave a good speech and Paul

:11:49.:11:54.

Nuttall gave a good speech, he's a different story to Nigel Farage,

:11:54.:11:57.

he's from Liverpool with a good back story, then it all became

:11:57.:12:01.

about Godfrey hitting a journalist and using an offensive world. Ed

:12:01.:12:05.

Miliband is saying something interesting tonight about what is

:12:05.:12:09.

called at least some people call it the bedroom tax. Our conference is

:12:09.:12:13.

all about how we tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many

:12:13.:12:16.

families, we will be showing during the course of the week how we

:12:16.:12:18.

families, we will be showing during going to do that. We are starting

:12:18.:12:22.

by showing how we would abolish the bedroom tax, by ending boardroom

:12:22.:12:25.

tax loopholes that this Government is allowing. That is a fair choice

:12:25.:12:26.

that will help disabled people and is allowing. That is a fair choice

:12:26.:12:29.

some of the people in the greatest hardship in our country. Phil, do

:12:29.:12:32.

you think he's on the right side of this, do you think he has done the

:12:32.:12:35.

right thing for the party conference coming up? I do actually.

:12:35.:12:40.

I think this is a very bad policy, 70% of people who pay it are

:12:40.:12:44.

disabled. It's very clear that the housing stock isn't there for

:12:44.:12:45.

people to move out. People are housing stock isn't there for

:12:45.:12:48.

already falling into arrears who have never been arrears before. The

:12:49.:12:52.

already falling into arrears who danger for Ed Miliband is it is

:12:52.:12:55.

then easy to portray him as soft on welfare. Which has been a worry for

:12:55.:12:59.

the party for a while? It is a serious predicament for him. He

:12:59.:13:03.

can't allow this particular policy to be the icon for welfare reform.

:13:03.:13:05.

can't allow this particular policy Has to do other things. It is

:13:05.:13:10.

perfectly reasonable to say this is an incompetent policy and the wrong

:13:10.:13:13.

symbol of welfare reform and putting too great a burden on too

:13:13.:13:17.

few people. I think he's right. You can understand when it comes to the

:13:17.:13:20.

conference people like you will say that is a spending

:13:20.:13:21.

conference people like you will say actually that you are going to make,

:13:21.:13:22.

how about some other ones in terms actually that you are going to make,

:13:22.:13:26.

of taxation or other things? Absolutely. I una that Ed Miliband

:13:26.:13:31.

and Ed Balls had -- I understand that Ed Miliband and Ed Balls had a

:13:31.:13:37.

row about scrapping this cut, because Ed Miliband doesn't want to

:13:37.:13:40.

row about scrapping this cut, appear profligate. It is about

:13:40.:13:44.

appearing tough on this. It is OK about the bedroom tax that is a bad

:13:45.:13:49.

policy implemented badly. You have to look at other places in welfare

:13:49.:13:55.

you can appear tough. Labour had a welfare week recently but

:13:55.:13:57.

you can appear tough. Labour had a sure it cut through to voters. You

:13:57.:14:00.

have to buy other things, it is not very expensive because it doesn't

:14:00.:14:05.

raise much money, it is not a very profligate thing to do. It would be

:14:05.:14:09.

tempting to say let's stick with everything and there is a risk

:14:09.:14:10.

involved, it is the right thing everything and there is a risk

:14:10.:14:14.

do, as long as it is accompanied by other things. Do you think this is

:14:14.:14:17.

not just something that will appeal it the party's left, it might have

:14:17.:14:21.

broader appeal, given the kind of campaign that has been waged about

:14:21.:14:26.

this? It is an interesting way of Ed Miliband appealing to the

:14:26.:14:28.

campaigning groups around the bedroom tax. There is a lot of them

:14:28.:14:30.

campaigning outside the Lib Dem bedroom tax. There is a lot of them

:14:30.:14:33.

conference, they are organised and vocal, for him to get them on side

:14:33.:14:37.

is a good thing. It is not the most popular of the welfare cuts. If you

:14:37.:14:42.

pledged to scrap the benefit cap, that is the most popular benefit

:14:42.:14:46.

that pollsters have touched that would be a different thing. There

:14:46.:14:49.

is a way to do it, we are in favour of welfare reform, the Government

:14:50.:14:54.

are messing it up and this is an incompetent cut. You have to be

:14:54.:14:57.

cred be on that. If you were a parent concerned that your child

:14:58.:15:03.

was being targeted on-line by paedophiles where would you turn.

:15:03.:15:06.

One young mother who was worried her 15-year-old daughter was being

:15:06.:15:13.

groomed, chose to take her concerns to a vigilante group on-line,

:15:13.:15:17.

rather than going to the police. Today the man was jailed for eight

:15:18.:15:22.

years for offences against children. Our colleagues gained exclusive

:15:22.:15:33.

access to the vigilante group. To some they are good Samaritans, to

:15:33.:15:38.

others dang vus vigilante. Here a group of amateur paedophile hunters

:15:38.:15:42.

chase a man they believe has been trying to meet an under-age girl

:15:42.:15:45.

for sex. She's 14, you think it is OK to meet her for sex. Since

:15:45.:15:49.

January, Letzgohunting have been monitoring people on-line they

:15:49.:15:54.

believe are engaged in on-line grooming. We create a profile on

:15:54.:15:59.

various internet websites of a young girl, then we just sit and

:15:59.:16:03.

wait for people to message us. When they do we reply to reiterate our

:16:03.:16:12.

age and let us see where the conversation goes. Before they

:16:12.:16:15.

would speak to us the members of the group insisted on innim and

:16:15.:16:20.

refused to reveal their idea -- anonymity, and refused to reveal

:16:20.:16:26.

their identity. They claimed their first success. This is the moment

:16:26.:16:32.

James Stone came face-to-face with Letzgohunting camera. The camera is

:16:32.:16:38.

for our protection. We exchanged pictures and said would you like to

:16:38.:16:41.

meet up. The group tracked him down to this bar after a teenager's

:16:41.:16:45.

mother contacted them worried her daughter was being targeted by a

:16:45.:16:49.

predatory man. It was the Letzgohunting team through the work

:16:49.:16:51.

they do, they got the information, and when they told me the severity

:16:51.:16:55.

of it, I mean I was a wreck. In an ideal world all I wanted to do was

:16:55.:17:00.

go and find him myself, but I couldn't even walk let alone speak

:17:00.:17:12.

to police. How much of your on-line

:17:12.:17:15.

conversation is you encouraging them? If we do it is only to say

:17:15.:17:19.

hello. We don't encourage them to talk dirty or talk about sexual

:17:19.:17:23.

acts. We don't encourage them to meet us. We agree when they suggest

:17:23.:17:27.

things. How quickly are you up front with the fact that you are a

:17:27.:17:29.

13 or a 14-year-old girl? Instantly, front with the fact that you are a

:17:29.:17:34.

there is no discrepancy in our age at all. They know straight away.

:17:34.:17:41.

How quickly can the on-line conversation turn sexual from those

:17:41.:17:45.

first few contacts to actually making it very obvious they want

:17:45.:17:48.

more? Within minutes, and I mean minutes. People have done it within

:17:48.:17:52.

five minutes. The national organisation which protects

:17:52.:17:55.

children on-line says paedophile investigations should be left to

:17:55.:18:01.

the experts. Confronting people is really bad practice. It risks loss

:18:01.:18:06.

of evidence, it riskss people panicking and possibly harming

:18:06.:18:10.

children as a result, possibly destroying evidence and denying us

:18:10.:18:14.

a chance to investigate a whole web of activity they are involved. And

:18:14.:18:17.

not many people will care about it, but it is a real risk we have to

:18:17.:18:22.

anticipate, the risk of suicide from people whose activities of

:18:22.:18:26.

this nature who are suddenly exposed goes up quickly. A man

:18:26.:18:34.

confronted by Letz Go Hunting and arrested by Leicestershire police

:18:34.:18:36.

and bailed committed suicide four days later. People say you are

:18:37.:18:45.

responsible for Gary Cleary's death, how do you answer those criticisms?

:18:45.:18:48.

The team can't be held responsible for his death. He took his own life,

:18:48.:18:53.

which is unfortunate, our feelings go out to his family and friends

:18:53.:18:58.

after such an unfortunate event. Jamie is convinced his group is

:18:58.:19:03.

providing a service the police cannot match. If the police were

:19:03.:19:05.

providing a service the police doing enough we wouldn't have to.

:19:05.:19:09.

The fact that without even trying too hard caught 11 people trying to

:19:09.:19:12.

meet children in one particular area sort of thing, one area of the

:19:12.:19:16.

country, for sex, that says the police aren't doing enough.

:19:16.:19:21.

You can see more on the Letz Go Hunting story on BBC One's Inside

:19:21.:19:25.

You can see more on the Letz Go Out in the East Midlands on Monday

:19:25.:19:28.

night and on the iPlayer shortly after that.

:19:28.:19:34.

The latest film In Real Life investigates the secret lives of

:19:34.:19:39.

teenagers and the Internet for watching porn and other things.

:19:39.:19:43.

I was struck that many parents just watching that little clip would

:19:43.:19:46.

actually think that the vigilantes are doing a good job? You could

:19:46.:19:50.

understand why they would feel that. It is an emotional level, it is

:19:50.:19:55.

hard not to if you are a parent worried about your children. But

:19:55.:19:59.

vigilanteism is not the answer. We all know the police are having

:19:59.:20:03.

difficulty hoping with the volume of these types of crimes. The

:20:03.:20:12.

answer is to give them the resources they need and not to

:20:12.:20:14.

reply on all sorts of people for resources they need and not to

:20:14.:20:18.

all sorts of reasons. It could mess up investigations? How do we know

:20:18.:20:22.

that the police weren't involved in a major investigation of one of

:20:22.:20:25.

these individuals, it could be completely destroyed by this type

:20:25.:20:29.

of activity. You met a lot of teenagers making this film, what

:20:29.:20:32.

kind of people are we talking about? Are we talking about people

:20:32.:20:34.

who are particularly vulnerable about? Are we talking about people

:20:34.:20:36.

the kid next door? We have to be about? Are we talking about people

:20:36.:20:39.

really careful about the way we look at this problem, it hits the

:20:39.:20:43.

headlines and this is a grotesque story and we are all upset. What we

:20:43.:20:47.

have to acknowledge is kids are going on the Internet to learn

:20:47.:20:50.

about sex. If that's where they are going, then they are going to come

:20:50.:20:54.

across some very difficult situations. And I think that the

:20:54.:20:58.

failure is that we're not teaching them about how to manage the on-

:20:59.:21:05.

line world properly. Some of the things you came up with are quite

:21:05.:21:09.

shocking, there was a girl so attached to her BlackBerry she was

:21:09.:21:14.

prepared to be sexually abused in order to get it back when boys took

:21:14.:21:19.

it? Uch to be careful about "prepared to be". There is a lot of

:21:19.:21:21.

addictive technology around the net. "prepared to be". There is a lot of

:21:21.:21:26.

There is a lot of reward mechanism its, kids feel absolutely attached

:21:26.:21:32.

to their phones in ways that are really inexplicable to us. Once

:21:32.:21:35.

they get attached to the phone, if they don't have the resources to

:21:35.:21:39.

replace that phone and they are in a vulnerable situation, they make

:21:39.:21:43.

some very, very bad choices. Including trusting strangers that

:21:43.:21:46.

they would never do if this was some stranger that tried to open a

:21:46.:21:50.

car door to them? Absolutely, there is a culture of anonymity on the

:21:50.:21:56.

net, that we are not looking at properly. How big a problem are we

:21:56.:21:59.

actually talking about here. One of the things, people will be very

:21:59.:22:03.

shocked by this, there is also a danger of some kind of moral panic,

:22:03.:22:08.

is it a big panic or not? There was another story running today that

:22:08.:22:13.

new figures that CEOP produced showing the number of cases where

:22:13.:22:18.

kids were being black mailed on- line by paedophiles into performing

:22:18.:22:23.

sexual acts, self-laerming, and I think the number -- self-harming,

:22:23.:22:29.

and the numbers worldwide were 2500 cases they dealt with and 120 in

:22:29.:22:33.

the UK. I found that a very, very striking number. Bearing in mind

:22:33.:22:37.

that will only be a fraction of what is actually taking place.

:22:37.:22:40.

Where does the buck stop, the police, the parents, everybody? I

:22:40.:22:42.

Where does the buck stop, the don't know? This is a communal

:22:42.:22:45.

problem, we need a communal solution, that is what's

:22:45.:22:48.

problematic about a vigilante approach. I think that there is a

:22:48.:22:52.

lot more social responsibility from these companies. They seem to know

:22:52.:22:56.

that I want to buy a blue kettle with a whistle, but don't seem to

:22:56.:23:00.

know where the predators are. In every other part of our life we

:23:00.:23:04.

have to provide services with care. We have a duty of care to these

:23:04.:23:08.

kids. I think that I would like to say about the numbers, that in my

:23:09.:23:13.

filming, which has only been a year, and they don't all appear in the

:23:13.:23:18.

film at all, I met five young women who had been groomed on-line. Five

:23:18.:23:24.

and I didn't try that hard to meet them. And it really is very easy. I

:23:24.:23:28.

mean are the police the right people to do this? You talkeded

:23:29.:23:33.

about resource, but we're talking about a wider thing, which might

:23:33.:23:36.

involve something which people don't like the idea of, some kind

:23:36.:23:43.

of censorship within the Internet itself? Companies have to take more

:23:43.:23:45.

responsibility about the environments that they are creating

:23:46.:23:48.

and they are profiting from. Obviously they don't want these

:23:48.:23:52.

things to happen on those spaces, but they are. They can't walk away

:23:52.:23:56.

from the responsibility of the consequences of that. Yes the

:23:56.:23:59.

industry must do more. I think to go back to your point, I think we

:23:59.:24:01.

do have to start thinking about it go back to your point, I think we

:24:01.:24:05.

this in a broader way, frame it as a societal question, rather like we

:24:05.:24:10.

do with public health type issue, the police will not be by any means

:24:10.:24:13.

the only answer, but they certainly have to be part of it when you come

:24:13.:24:17.

to paedophile activity like this. Did you in the film, were parents

:24:17.:24:21.

shock by what their own children were up to, or were they brought on

:24:21.:24:26.

board? I took a particular decision, there is one set of parents in the

:24:26.:24:30.

film, only, but mainly because their son died, he was bullied and

:24:30.:24:35.

died. He committed suicide. But I tried to get the voices of

:24:35.:24:38.

teenagers. And I think that's something that is really missing in

:24:38.:24:44.

this moral panic. Is we're not hearing about the voices of

:24:44.:24:47.

teenagers. A lot of what they do is unconscious and a lot of what they

:24:48.:24:52.

do, they are not even aware of their engagment in dangerous places.

:24:52.:24:56.

I think we have to put it in the context of the brilliant and

:24:56.:24:58.

I think we have to put it in the wonderful things that the net

:24:58.:25:01.

delivers our kids. We have got a real discussion to have, not just

:25:01.:25:05.

this panic. Thank you very much both of you.

:25:05.:25:08.

It was once one of the world's most successful companies, noted for the

:25:08.:25:14.

innovations but tonight BlackBerry announced a cut of 4,500 jobs. Why

:25:14.:25:19.

do successful companies fail, not because they do things wrong but

:25:19.:25:23.

because they do things right. That is the theory of Harvard professor

:25:23.:25:28.

Clayton Christensen. He's worried innovation itself is in serious

:25:28.:25:33.

trouble. And some of the world's best known tech firms like Apple,

:25:33.:25:38.

who launched this week another version of their iPhone had better

:25:38.:25:40.

take note. We have lived through an age of

:25:40.:25:46.

innovation, from the modem to broadband to Wi-Fi over a

:25:46.:25:50.

cappuccino. From the duff car to the electric car, the unmanned

:25:50.:25:54.

drone, the computer virus and of course the cat video. But is it all

:25:54.:26:00.

the wrong kind of innovation, since the mid-1990s the Holy Grail has

:26:00.:26:05.

been disruptive inknow vague. The new machines and techniques that

:26:05.:26:08.

blow away old ones and create new economies, change the world. The

:26:08.:26:14.

man who invented the term is -- innovation. The new machines and

:26:14.:26:19.

techniques that blow away the old ones and create new economies and

:26:19.:26:24.

change the world. The man who invented the term is Clayton

:26:24.:26:28.

Christensen. Disruptive innovation transforms complicated and

:26:29.:26:33.

expensive products into ones that are affordable and accessible that

:26:33.:26:36.

many more people have access to them. Usually that is good

:26:36.:26:41.

because......because Many more people have access, the companies

:26:41.:26:48.

have to hire people to make and distribute them and service and

:26:48.:26:53.

sell them. And yet our system impedes capital from being used to

:26:53.:26:58.

start more and more of these empowering innovations.

:26:58.:27:05.

Instead money is being hoarded inside corporations, or used to

:27:05.:27:10.

create low-skilled jobs, or to defend monopoly positions that

:27:10.:27:13.

boost profits in the short-term. So could that stop the economic

:27:13.:27:16.

recovery from taking off? We need to describe what you have just said

:27:16.:27:21.

in the present tense, not the future sense. It is here. In

:27:21.:27:27.

America we are investing and launching only a third of the

:27:27.:27:31.

disruptive innovations that we used to do in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s,

:27:31.:27:39.

because of the way we measure things makes capital unwilling to

:27:39.:27:41.

because of the way we measure invest in those things. In Britain

:27:41.:27:47.

it is worse. I'm not aware of any truly disruptive innovations that

:27:47.:27:48.

it is worse. I'm not aware of any have been launched here.

:27:48.:27:54.

Instead he says the finance systems rewards market dominance, one after

:27:54.:28:00.

the other, from IBM, to Microsoft, and now Google, Facebook, stock

:28:00.:28:04.

markets love a big boast. It wasn't always like that. Before 1914 the

:28:04.:28:10.

US President, Teddy Roosevelt attacked the power of monoplies and

:28:10.:28:14.

price cartels and that moment is etched into American business

:28:14.:28:22.

history. Does it not frustrate you that some of these big names in

:28:23.:28:29.

history are monopoly players, don't you crave a Theodore Roosevelt to

:28:29.:28:34.

come along and say enough competition? That is a great

:28:34.:28:39.

observation, and I would say, no. That historically when there has

:28:39.:28:46.

been a Monday NOP -- monopoly, it hasn't been that the Government

:28:46.:28:52.

came in and cut them up, but it was disruption that cut them up. And so

:28:52.:28:59.

IBM was being sued by the Government in America because they

:28:59.:29:05.

thought it was a Monday NOPy, and what made them -- monopoly, and

:29:05.:29:11.

what made them and cut them up wasn't that it was the computer.

:29:11.:29:16.

Right now there is a death match in the smartphone market, between

:29:17.:29:25.

Apple, with a cut price phone and android backed by Google. The

:29:25.:29:28.

stakes are high. There is absolutely a they arey that

:29:28.:29:37.

describes how a pro-primery architect -- pro-primery axe

:29:37.:29:43.

tebgture. So like the iPod, this could all end in tears? Because

:29:43.:29:46.

every one of those in the past has could all end in tears? Because

:29:46.:29:51.

been disrupted by open architectures. Apple has always

:29:51.:30:00.

been able to cup up with the next closed architecture that targets a

:30:00.:30:04.

different set of customers in the market. I don't see that coming.

:30:04.:30:11.

Instead they are taking their iPhone to the fifth generation,

:30:11.:30:17.

still closed and those on the open...By That we mean looked down

:30:17.:30:23.

into Apple's world and Apple's world only? That's correct. And

:30:23.:30:31.

that is what kills companies. Nokia is essentially gone, BlackBerry is

:30:31.:30:37.

essentially gone, and now Apple is next.

:30:38.:30:41.

If he's right the most successful tech company in the world had had

:30:41.:30:46.

better get the head around the idea of disruptive innovation.

:30:46.:30:51.

That was Paul Mason and we will miss him and wish him well in his

:30:51.:30:57.

own anyone know vaigs. We leave you with -- innovation. Next year you

:30:57.:31:02.

will be finally be able to buy your very own jet pack, going to work on

:31:02.:31:06.

Monday morning will never be the same again.

:31:06.:31:17.

A UKIP MEP wrecks his party conference with a gaffe rampage, vigilante paedophile hunters, and the tech guru who says Apple are on their way out.


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS