02/10/2013 Newsnight


02/10/2013

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Jeremy Paxman.


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We are saying that in the circumstances, with the prospect of

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the economic recovery we are seeing with jobs being created, in a time

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when the economy is relatively flat, but nonetheless, 1.3 or 1.4 million

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jobs are being created in the private sector, we ought to be

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saying it is all right not to provide the opportunity and the

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necessary action... How much is it going to cost? It depends on the

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months between the earning and e-learning. A rough estimate? I will

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not give you a rough estimate. Do you know? This is the exact thing

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you do. We do not know the exact balance between those who will get

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jobs and move from people on benefit who owners who pay taxes, which is a

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net gain. We do not know how many of these will need additional training

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opportunities. That is the work that now has to be done. What we are

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doing is setting out a direction... Does this apply to single parents?

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All of the details will be worked out. Work is already under way and

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this has to be done properly. You do not know whether it will apply to

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single parents? We are not going to be bounced into announcing every

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single detail... Be Prime Minister... He set out a direction.

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If you are 16-year-olds living with abusive parents or alcoholic parents

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or whatever it is, in those circumstances, even if you were not

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in education, employment or training, you would have your

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benefits cut, correct? We will have to... So this is another detail you

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benefits cut, correct? We will have have not fought through? We are

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saying when people do not have a family home they can properly live

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in, there will need to be provision made for them. Do you think you

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should have worked out some of these details before the Prime Minister

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announced the policy? That is absurd. That is where so many

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projects go wrong and have gone wrong in the past, that you actually

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try to announce all of the detail at the outset. So here is the

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direction, he is the strategic approach, which I think most people

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watching this will say it is right to provide this sort of support to

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young people, and then we will work through in great detail and

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announced as that detail emerges. That is the right way to do this.

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Can I ask you about the Daily Mail and Ed Miliband? Use it on this

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subcommittee of the Privy Council that will be considering the

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question of press regulation. Has this spat made it easier or more

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difficult for you to reach a conclusion? I do not know whether it

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has made any difference to how you work through what is a really

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complicated issue, and there lots of difficulties around it, which we

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will resolve into course. I would just say, though, that as someone

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who like Ed Miliband, I had a father who was in the public eye, and I

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think it is quite unattractive to seek to ascribe to the children what

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the father has stood for. I think that is very unattractive and

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especially when that person is dead and cannot reply for themselves. But

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actually, I think it probably will have done the Daily Mail some

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damage, because it does look very unattractive and I think a lot of

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people will be pretty revolted by that approach. You do not think it

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should be somehow stopped? I do not think everything that is

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unattractive should be made illegal, no. That is almost it for the

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conference season. Let's not forget the Scottish Nationalists party and

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Plaid Cymru. So how are the speeches and policy changes in the political

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weather? We are joined by our guests for their verdict on the

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conferences. David Cameron 's speech today, what did you think? I thought

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it was an attempt by David Cameron Tobais himself firmly in his party.

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He has had trouble over much of the Parliament since the formation of

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the coalition, the leakage of supporters to UKIP, and I think the

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message was very Thatcherite in many respects. It was back to the 1980s

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in terms of the emphasis on wealth creation and job creation. There was

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also a moral assault on Labour, attacking Labour for its failure to

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also a moral assault on Labour, bring debts under control, that

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youth and implement rose steadily under Labour, and so it was this

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combination of a traditional pouring message on jobs and prosperity...

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Most elections, we, of course, want something new every time to would in

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our newspapers and on your programmes, but most people out

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there want the focus on the bread-and-butter issues like deficit

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reduction and job creation. That is where the prime minister is. Why are

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you frowning? It was spectacular that he spoke for 49 minutes without

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saying anything whatsoever. It was predictable stuff. It was the

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speech... It was not particularly bad. It had some terrible jokes. It

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had very few memorable phrases. I thought the improbability of history

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was very good. The jokes were appalling. The one about the mini

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factory was very ineffective and it did not tell us anything new.

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Cameron made the ludicrous and unforgivable decision as a graduate

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to put his education to use by becoming a PR and this seemed to me

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the speech of a very effective PR rather than APM. What you think? It

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was defiantly dull and I think that was probably deliberate. It was as a

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piece of the whole conference. The Tories wanted to be seen as the

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grown-ups and they might not even but you can trust them with the

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money. That seems to be... Has it been a dull conference season? It

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has been really dull. If you look at the beginning of the party

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conference season, particularly before the Syria vote, Ed Miliband

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had had a terrible summer. Actually he had a very good party conference.

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He's the one who has made the weather. He has. The cost of

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living, not cuts. There is a lot of focus on the cuts. It is the price

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of the electricity and gas bill etc, that is what worries people. What Ed

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Miliband poses as the solution to energy prices is crazy and will

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unravel that a lot of people have heard him talk about issues they

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care about. Ed Miliband is trying to frame the question is, this is about

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the cost of living. Do you feel better off than you did several

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years ago? The Tories are trying to say, the job is not finished yet. So

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Ed Miliband was quite effective in changing the question from has

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Ed Miliband was quite effective in planned a plan B worked to argue

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feeling better? And most people would still say no. What about the

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proposal today that Cameron made about not giving benefits to young

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people not in education or training. How will that do with the public? I

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think his speech was managerial because he knows he cannot do the

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common touch. This new policy is really difficult for him because

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people will immediately go back to the, it is all right for you. The

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sort of bracing and self starting and again I'm a as the party message

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-- again as the party message, but we do know that that those lives are

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chaotic and difficult and not at all like those of the Camerons. They

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need a lot of support. We have had a lot of apprentices at the Evening

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Standard newspaper and they need back-up. If you just give them the

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money they will not eat. That is true but it is also true that if we

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do not really sent a message to society, to young people, that the

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most important way to ever get out of poverty is to work... They need

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help. Absolutely. It is correct that the detail is not worked out but he

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was correct to say that as a principle this is something that

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will be quite popular. Of course it will be popular. The public really

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want to people -- people to go hard at welfare. No thinking has gone

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into this whatsoever. I agree with you completely, Tim, you have to

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make work attractive. The way to do you completely, Tim, you have to

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that is first to create the jobs, which the Government has had some

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success doing, 1.4 million jobs in the private sector, and there other

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ways to make jobs attractive. You could create a living wage which

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would not necessarily cost the governor anything, and you can take

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people out of... Job-seeker's allowance for the under 25 stock

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market it pleases the public, you really can see that? Of course. Does

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any of you have an idea of anything Nick Clegg has said this autumn? He

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has said trust me, not beans. And he has said he wants to lead Ott I

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think he had a decent conference. He cemented his position as leader.

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That is not a small thing. I would have thought that Nick Clegg's

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leadership would have been in more trouble than it is now. He killed

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off Vince in that conference. He has a simple message for the next

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election. If you vote Liberal Democrat it will humanise the

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Conservatives and make the Labour Party a bit more responsible. They

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are well dug into the seats they hold, but it is still likely we can

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have a hung Parliament a game next time and Nick Clegg will hold the

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balance of power. And also that you do believe that the coalition will

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probably continue to function up to the election. That was another

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message from this week. At what point do they all peel off? It did

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feel very disciplined, and I think whatever the unseen hand that is

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maybe even Boris Johnson, to start behaving like a team player, it is

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interesting. You felt that there was no one out of line. And UKIP was

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another element that I think if I heard anyone else say, they are fine

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as a comedy act but if you vote for them you will get Miliband, they are

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just hammering that message and it may be starting to get through. Now,

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if you were imagining the most awful parent in the world to have you

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might well conclude that having the man who -- the ramp who ran

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Auschwitz would be the worst man. man who -- the ramp who ran

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Our reporter tracked down his daughter. She is 80 and in the

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twilight of her lives feels a responsibility to tell her story.

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My great uncle, Hans Alexander, was a German Juhu fled to -- was a

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German Jew who fled to England to escape Nazi persecution. At the end

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of the Second World War, he captured the man responsible for creating the

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most infamous extermination camp and supervising the death of over 1

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million Jews and others. While researching my book, great uncle, I

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interviewed his daughter. She lives in a small house in Virginia just

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outside Washington, DC. The condition of my interview with

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Bridget was that we did not disclose her identity, for feel of reprise

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all is to the family. I loved it. It was like paradise. There were

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prisoners working in the house and begotten, correct? Yes. We did not

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know they were prisoners. They were always happy and wanting to play

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with us. From the age of seven to 11, Bridget lived with her parents

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and four siblings in a villa right next to the Auschwitz camp. Bridget

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went on boat rides with her father, had picnics with her mother and

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played in the sand, while prisoners in striped Jonathan worked behind.

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It was a normal childhood, only a few metres from misery and torment.

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But you did not know who they were all what happened in the camp? We

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did not know what else was there. My father never talked about things

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like this and there was no smoke, there was no smell of something. And

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what was he like, your father? He said my liebenkinder, did you

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have a nice day? Sometimes he was not very happy, but I mean, he was

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nice, but I could see things maybe bothered him also. But because I am

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sure he wanted to get away, but if you are in something you are in.

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By 1944, the commandant and his team were murdering up to 2,000 people

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each hour in the gas Chambers. Trains were arriving frequently,

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carrying Jew, gypsies and homosexuals from across Europe.

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After being arrested, Hoess was transferred to Nuremberg where the

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Americans put him on the witness stand.

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You said to he he was the nicest father in the world, nicest man in

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the world. Yes. How is it possible he is the nicest man in the world if

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he was the commandant of Auschwitz. How is that possible? That is what I

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don't know. There was not one flaw on him, one, nothing what was mean,

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or not nice. First, I didn't believe it.

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I said it couldn't be. Now you believe it. Now do you belief he

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was... ? Yes, I believe, but I don't believe he did it himself.

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Definitely not. There are, God knows all these people who pushed, you

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know, like somebody is above you and says look, you have to do this,

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this, this, I don't think it was his idea. I could not believe a man wow

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with some warm at home, could, er, do something. I believe bad things

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happen there. Terrible things. Not just bad. Terrible things. Over one

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million people were murdered. Yes.

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But you do believe that he, he created the camp Auschwitz, and he

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ran the camp, where so many... He managed it, but I think his

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didn't... Start it. He did start with it. He created it.

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He created it. Who told him to do this? Himmler Himmler told him to do

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it, and he built the cam, and over one million Jews were murdered, and

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your father -- in your father's gas Chambers.

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Yes. I don't know why things like this

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even can happen. If there is a God, why does God let things like this

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happen? You don't think the people involved are responsible? Oh, to a

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certain extent, definitely. But I think there was nothing

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else... To do. Rudolf Hoess was tried in Poland and

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in April 1947 hung on a gallows next to the old Auschwitz crematorium

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cram. From point forward the Hoess family had to reinvent themselves.

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And in the 1970s, Bridget moved with her American husband, to the suburbs

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of Washington DC. You have decided not to talk about it with your

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husband and your children. Why is that? I don't know. I just didn't

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feel to. I just, certain things there are my problem, or my special

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secrets, or whatever. Why are you talking to me about this now, after

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all these years? Maybe I am getting older, and I think different. Not

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different, but I believe it... Such horror -- such horrible things can

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be done, from somebody you have no idea. While talking with Bridget, I

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realised she is still struggling to reconcile the father she -- father

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she knew with the man whose monstrous acts history has recorded.

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So there are two sides to your father? Definitely. Couldn't be a

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person so gentle and so wonderful, and so family orientated, and he can

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do something like this. I just know the good side. I don't know the bad

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side. And I think I am glad about it.

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So if your father was here now, what you would you say to him? Oh... Why?

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So many questions and no answers. Now, abortion has been legally

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available in Britain for nearly 50 years. The grounds for allowing the

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termination of a pregnancy are in theory strictly controlled, but pro

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lifers claim a characteristically British his pop si shrouds the

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issue. A single organisation the British pregnancy advisory service

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ended 50,000 pregnancy. The Chief Executive believes the law is

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unnecessarily restrictive at times, for examlet on the question of

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whether officially it should be allowed because the mother doesn't

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like the sex of the prospective child. It is wrong agenda. Last year

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the Daily Telegraph sent undercover journalist to accompany young women

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on a sting operation. They wanted to see if they could persuade doctors

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to agree to an abortion, because the mother to be didn't want to unborn

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child, a decision based on their gender. In two cases, doctors were

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recorded appearing to want to help arrange terminations.

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No, no, I don't ask questions. If you want a termination, you want a

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termination. The idea anyone might allow an abortion on these glounds

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was roundly condemned I was shocked to read local authorities so clinics

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may have been behaving in this way. It is what is selecting by gender

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for termination of pregnancy is not only morn morally wrong it is

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illegal. The 1967 Abortion Act allowed abortion only with the

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signature of two doctors on the grounds that continuing the

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pregnancy would involve a greater risk to the physical or mental

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health of a pregnant woman or her family, than if the baby was born.

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Or there was a risk that the child would be disabled.

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Can we put down a different reason? I don't want to say. Last month

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following an investigation the Crown Prosecution Service said they

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wouldn't prosecute because it wouldn't be in the public interest.

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Following that decision, the Chief wouldn't be in the public interest.

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Executive of the British pregnancy advisory service said it is true

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that the sex of the foetus is not a legal ground for abortion, nor is

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rape, or incest or being 13-year-old. Yet they are all

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reasons why a doctor may believe a woman has met the legal grounds of

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abortion. And the Chief Executive of the

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British pregnancy advisory service is with us. We are joined by the

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former GP and current Conservative MP Sarah wools on the. Under what

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circumstances would it be legitimate to terminate a pregnancy on the

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gender of the child? Let us just say that the one thing I have never

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heard and I have been running the service for ten years now, and I

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have never heard of a woman walking into a clinic, and simply saying, I

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want to have an abortion because I don't want a girl or I don't want a

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boy. Women who come into the clinics have a whole complex set of reasons

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why they may want to end the pregnancy. It may very well be, that

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the circumstances of the pregnancy are very much part of that. But you

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do, defend the right of a woman who have a pregnancy terminated on the

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grounds of the gender of the future child? What I think is that the law

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at the moment works reasonably well. The law at the moment allows a

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doctor to recommend, to make a decision, in good faith, that a

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woman can have an abortion if he or she believes that it would be

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damaging, wait a second here, that she believes that it would be

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it would be damaging to the woman's mental health, for her to continue

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the pregnancy, so if a doctor believes that the woman's question

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for o request for the abortion is best for her, then the doctor can

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for o request for the abortion is make that referral. That to me makes

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sense. Even if that is on the grounds of the Jimi Hendrixer of the

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child? Because the doctor -- the gender of the child. The doctor

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believes she is perhaps so distraught, so strung out, so

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completely distressed it is better for her mental health, for the

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doctor to refer her for an abortion. That is a doctor's decision. In

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those circumstances, a doctor would be hard put to dom any other

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conclusion, wouldn't he or she? I I a think a doctor should be very much

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against condoning that sort of at attitude that allows to state that a

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son is more valuable than a daughter. It could be the other way

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round. Indeed. In countries where gender selection is practises, we

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see the harmful effect that has, in distorting the Jimi Hendrixle

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balance within societies, and again -- the gender balance.

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It is very harmful and we must be clear. Why you shaking your head?

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Can we be clear about what is going on here? You know, the Department of

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Health commissioned after the Telegraph did this scam set up, the

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Department of Health commissioned research into whether or not sex

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selection abortion was going on, to the point where girls and boys

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births were unbalanced. I found that they weren't. They sent the Care

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Quality Commission to inspect every single abortion clinic in the

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country, and found that there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

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But you don't have an ethical problem with it. I don't see that

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there is a problem in the law, in Britain that needs to be resolved,

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there is a problem in the law, in except perhaps there is a problem

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with newspaper journalists being set up to entrap doctors, and create a

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climate where you know, you have to really wonder how doctors are

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expected to operate, when they are genuinely concerned about whether

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the person sitting in front of them is trying to set them up to make a

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statement, to make political capital. Why do people like you

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believe there is any need to change or clarify the law? Well, I think

:33:57.:34:02.

the point is that the wording of the act is am big use, and I think it

:34:02.:34:06.

would be a sensible thing now for us to look at that wording and put it

:34:06.:34:11.

beyond all doubt, that gender selection abortion is illegal, to

:34:11.:34:15.

make that crystal clear, to doctors who are operating within clinics. I

:34:15.:34:19.

am in favour of women having a choice about abortion, but I think

:34:19.:34:25.

that choice does have limits, and anything that condones these

:34:25.:34:29.

practises should not be allowed and that should be explicit. So what are

:34:29.:34:35.

we supposed to say? That a doctor can approve an abortion, if he

:34:35.:34:38.

thinks that the woman's mental health will be damaged, unless there

:34:38.:34:43.

is a gender element in there? Because that is what you are saying

:34:43.:34:48.

here. Not at all. What I am saying is we should not be colluding with

:34:48.:34:53.

an attitude that says that having a girl or indeed, in some

:34:53.:34:57.

circumstance, having a boy could in any way force someone to become

:34:57.:35:01.

mentally ill. Don't you think it is a problem to assume that doctors are

:35:01.:35:05.

colluding in any attitude, when I would imagine that you as a doctor

:35:05.:35:10.

understands, that when you see a patient, you are really supposed to

:35:10.:35:15.

be acting in their interests. Of course. That is the primary thing...

:35:15.:35:24.

If I was seeing a patient who was in a distressed state because they

:35:24.:35:28.

thought they were under pressure by their family to abort a female

:35:28.:35:34.

foetus. I would be concerned. I wouldn't be colluding for them to

:35:34.:35:37.

think it was the right thing to go ahead with it. We are look at it in

:35:37.:35:43.

the right way round. I think we are looking at it the wrong way round.

:35:43.:35:50.

We are allowing it to be set by the circumstances in which newspaper

:35:51.:35:54.

journalists think that abortion is wrong, now, you, I assume... I

:35:54.:35:59.

assume. It is not about that. How many women... I have consoled very

:35:59.:36:05.

many women who are making the most difficult decision of their lives.

:36:05.:36:09.

If you collude with family pressures that say that this should not

:36:09.:36:13.

continue, because this is an unwanted sex of a baby, that is the

:36:13.:36:19.

wrong thing to do. How many... To say I am going to aid you to go down

:36:19.:36:23.

that course. Joub talking to them about the kind of attitudes that are

:36:23.:36:26.

leading to those pressures and shouldn't be shying I from that. And

:36:26.:36:30.

I think of course, for you to suggest that somehow this is a

:36:30.:36:35.

problem with newspapers, not a problem with individuals, who are

:36:35.:36:40.

not acting within the spirit or indeed the law... How many women...

:36:40.:36:47.

? I would like to know whether you are colluding with these kinds of

:36:47.:36:52.

attitudes? I can tell you, in the 60,000 or so abortions we do every

:36:52.:36:56.

year, my staff tell me that the only people who walk into a clinic, and

:36:57.:37:01.

ask for an abortion because the foetus is the wrong sex are

:37:01.:37:06.

journalist, I would like to ask you. Come on... Sarah, how many women

:37:06.:37:11.

have walked into your surgery, and said they want to end their

:37:11.:37:14.

pregnancy because they are carrying a baby of the wrong sex? Of course I

:37:14.:37:21.

accept... None my surgeries I rest my case. Is It doesn't mean you

:37:21.:37:26.

should rest your case. That is complacent and worrying. OK, we will

:37:26.:37:30.

cut it there. Thank you both very much. It merged today that there

:37:30.:37:34.

have been nearly 400 complaints to the Press Complaints Commission

:37:34.:37:37.

about the Daily Mail's treatment of the Milibands father and son. The

:37:37.:37:41.

PCC of course is hanging on to its role by its finger nails as the

:37:41.:37:45.

great and good decide what should be done about the regulation of the

:37:45.:37:49.

press in Britain. The Mail's story about the man who hated Britain as

:37:49.:37:53.

they put it, has brought the friction between the political class

:37:53.:38:00.

and the newspapers to a new heat. Perhaps it was their intention all

:38:00.:38:06.

along, or perhaps the escalating row over Ed Miliband's Marxist dad gave

:38:06.:38:10.

the Daily Mail a convenient opportunity to remind its readers of

:38:10.:38:13.

the Daily Mail a convenient its bitter battle with the

:38:13.:38:17.

politician, an editorial was clear. If he crushes the freedom of the

:38:17.:38:22.

press, the Mail's thundered, no doubt his father will be proud of

:38:22.:38:25.

him from beyond the grave, where he lies 12 yards from the remains of

:38:25.:38:28.

Karl Marx. This is an early shot in a battle

:38:29.:38:35.

over press regulation, which looks set to flare up again next week. A

:38:35.:38:40.

snake trying to swallow a pig. It has taken a while nor the body

:38:40.:38:44.

snake trying to swallow a pig. It politic to digest the four volume

:38:44.:38:47.

heft of the Leveson report and despite evidence of straining,

:38:47.:38:52.

nothing has emerged from the other end. This is a very complex problem,

:38:52.:38:58.

in fact, it might be impossible. OK, so here is Parliament and here

:38:59.:39:05.

is the press. Now, nobody, including Lord Leveson thought it was a good

:39:05.:39:09.

idea for the politicians to directly regulate the press. Scrub that what,

:39:09.:39:15.

what was suggested instead the newspapers set up their own board

:39:15.:39:18.

diand the Parliament would pass a law recognising that body.

:39:18.:39:22.

Membership of the recognised body would attract newspapers to sign up

:39:22.:39:25.

because it would protect them from being sued for example.

:39:25.:39:30.

But there are a couple of problem, the Prime Minister didn't want

:39:30.:39:34.

Parliament passing a law. He said it was crossing a rubicon. Labour and

:39:34.:39:38.

the Liberal Democrats wanted a law, just as Leveson himself recommended.

:39:38.:39:40.

the Liberal Democrats wanted a law, So how do you have a law that is not

:39:40.:39:44.

law? A law that is not a law. I know, a Royal Charter.

:39:44.:39:53.

And thus with great fanfare the parties agreed they would use this

:39:53.:39:59.

medieval instrument to create a recognition pod that would approve a

:39:59.:40:04.

self regulation body. Royal cha ters are set up be I the Privy Council.

:40:04.:40:09.

The intention was they would approve it in May. It is now October and

:40:09.:40:15.

still nothing. So what has gone wrong? Well, some of the newspapers

:40:15.:40:20.

didn't like the all party version of the Royal Charter, so they came up

:40:20.:40:25.

with their own, and petitions the Privy Council to accept theirs

:40:25.:40:32.

instead. It's a convention that the privacy council isn't brought into

:40:32.:40:38.

such matter, so a council was set up to decide whether to recommend it.

:40:38.:40:42.

If they decided not the other version would go forward

:40:42.:40:45.

automatically. Here is what the Prime Minister said about it last

:40:45.:40:46.

month. We have to follow the correct

:40:47.:40:52.

processes, listen to legal advice and they have said we have to

:40:52.:40:57.

consider the press drafted charter first, so that is under way at the

:40:57.:41:02.

moment, obviously, I am not sitting on that committee, so I have to be

:41:02.:41:05.

careful what I say but I have said in the House of Commons, I think the

:41:05.:41:07.

careful what I say but I have said press charter has sop things to

:41:07.:41:10.

recommend it but it is deficient in key respect, and I think that is a

:41:10.:41:15.

problem. In case you are not getting the Prime Minister's carefully

:41:15.:41:17.

worded hint, here he is being clearer. Look, to be clear, I remain

:41:17.:41:21.

committed to the cross-party charter. Next week, the Privy

:41:21.:41:27.

Council meets. If it were to approve the press version, that would mean

:41:27.:41:30.

re-opening the all party negotiations which in any case

:41:30.:41:37.

Labour say is a no-no. The Prime Minister is worried the press won't

:41:37.:41:43.

sign up, and it could get really really messy. Perhaps Lord Leveson

:41:43.:41:47.

himself who wrote this report can help us out. He is due to give

:41:47.:41:51.

evidence to MPs next Thursday, the day after the Privy Council meets.

:41:51.:41:56.

Ideas please. The simpler the better.

:41:56.:42:01.

There we are. Clear as mud. Steve Hewlett is here. Apart from

:42:01.:42:05.

correcting him on the question of will he is Lord Leveson or Lord

:42:05.:42:09.

Justice Leveson, can you explain? OK. If you go back to the beginning

:42:09.:42:15.

of this, Leveson said there should be a new self re-regulatory body

:42:15.:42:17.

able to fine up to £1 million, would be a new self re-regulatory body

:42:17.:42:22.

be more independent and so on. If you like that was the big idea. He

:42:22.:42:27.

said he observed I should say, that whenever there had been inquiries

:42:27.:42:31.

into the press before, and proposals has emerged for what to do about it,

:42:31.:42:37.

at some point after this had been agreed the press would backslide,

:42:37.:42:40.

wouldn't do it at all or stop doing it so he said a key part of his

:42:40.:42:47.

proposal was that there be new self-regulate tribody or more than

:42:47.:42:50.

one, there would be a recognition body that would give the regulator

:42:50.:42:55.

an occasional once over, an MoT, a kite mark to give the public

:42:55.:43:01.

confidence that the press was still doing what it was that everybody

:43:01.:43:05.

agreed they should. This is what is at issue. The Royal Charter is about

:43:05.:43:10.

establishing the recognition body. And the recognition body is a guard

:43:10.:43:16.

dog for the guard dog. Correct. It gives a periodic MoT. It is the

:43:16.:43:19.

linchpin of the Leveson system. He said every time we have been here

:43:19.:43:23.

before, sooner or later, in many cases sooner, the press have said

:43:23.:43:27.

what they needed to say to get out of the room and then back slid, so

:43:27.:43:30.

this is the key to stopping that from happening. How close is that to

:43:30.:43:35.

resolution? Well, as the piece pointed out, because of the way the

:43:35.:43:39.

privacy council works they have decided to do it through a royal

:43:39.:43:42.

chart e there were two. The cross-party one and the press one.

:43:42.:43:45.

They have to dispense with one of them before the other can go

:43:45.:43:48.

through, because they say if there is more than one charter for the

:43:48.:43:51.

same issue Knight Kerr go through because it invites the Queen, in

:43:51.:43:57.

whose name this is enacted to get involved. So my understanding is

:43:57.:44:02.

that the concern sis is the press charter will be rejected. It hasn't

:44:02.:44:06.

been rejected yet, I believe papers were sent out today, to a

:44:06.:44:10.

sub-committee of the Privy Council, they are meeting on Monday, they are

:44:10.:44:15.

petrified or highly sensitive, if they are not very careful, you saw a

:44:15.:44:19.

bit of it in what David Cameron said there, that the press will seek some

:44:19.:44:24.

kind of process review, judicial review or otherwise and stuff up the

:44:24.:44:28.

process inducing further delay. If they do it properly the expectation

:44:28.:44:32.

is, the press version will be rejected, which leafs just the

:44:32.:44:37.

cross-party version. The next thing that happens of course is if that

:44:37.:44:40.

gets implemented, in its current form, there is every chance that the

:44:40.:44:47.

press, who are meanwhile setting up a self regulator called IPSO, they

:44:47.:44:56.

may not seek recognition. If that were to happen... Try and keep up

:44:56.:45:01.

viewers! You have a real problem, because the backstop in the Leveson

:45:01.:45:06.

system would cease to function. Very important. Now the influence of

:45:06.:45:11.

the Mail quickly on this? David Cameron, part of that process was

:45:11.:45:16.

asking the other party leader, Nick Clegg and Miliband, to consider

:45:16.:45:19.

negotiating further, to see if there was a position, a consensual

:45:20.:45:23.

position that could be reached to avoid the impasse that will occur,

:45:23.:45:30.

if the recognition body is up but the regulator chooses not the seek

:45:30.:45:34.

recognition. Let us see if we can find a charter about which even can

:45:34.:45:39.

agree. If Miliband was at any point tempted and there is no indication

:45:39.:45:43.

he was, if he was ever top story the suggestion it might be something to

:45:44.:45:46.

negotiate on after the events of this week I would say it was a

:45:46.:45:51.

guaranteed certainty he won't be going there now. Thank you. Well,

:45:51.:45:55.

that is it for tonight, good night.

:45:55.:45:57.