08/10/2013 Newsnight


08/10/2013

Jeremy Paxman talks to the former head of the English Defence League, Tommy Robinson. Plus, the co-founder of Jimmy Chu, press regulation and Heinz Wolff on the Higgs Boson.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 08/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

He might have a reputation for noise and bluster, but this news was kept

:01:42.:02:05.

very quiet indeed. After four years trying to run the English Defence

:02:05.:02:09.

League, the man who calls himself Tommy Robinson is now suddenly

:02:09.:02:15.

walking away. He sat between two former Muslim Jihadists to make his

:02:15.:02:20.

point, that the EDL is becoming too extreme and loud and violent

:02:21.:02:24.

demonstrations are just not working. I am asking all my supporters who

:02:24.:02:27.

followed me to put faith in the decision we are making, and follow

:02:27.:02:33.

in, I don't believe, street protests and the way it is going is the way

:02:33.:02:35.

in, I don't believe, street protests forward. I believe an opportunity

:02:35.:02:39.

has to be given to see if this can progress. It can progress to be a

:02:39.:02:44.

debate, instead of being on the street, can be had an arena that it

:02:44.:02:51.

is supposed to be had. It was this demonstration in 2009 that changed

:02:51.:02:55.

everything for Tommy Robinson. Muslim protesters shouted insults as

:02:55.:03:00.

the royal anningian regiment marched through Luton town centre. Robinson

:03:00.:03:05.

led a counter demonstration that eventually turned into the EDL. The

:03:05.:03:11.

group has no normal joining procedures and no membership list.

:03:11.:03:15.

Its street protests often descend into violence and arrests. But

:03:15.:03:21.

people who watch the EDL say Robinson is in fact one of its less

:03:21.:03:25.

extreme members. He has been followed by a camera crew as he was

:03:25.:03:28.

brought together with modderate Muslims. The vast majority of the

:03:28.:03:32.

people in this country would want Muslims. The vast majority of the

:03:32.:03:39.

the burqa banned. In the process of making the film to be broadcast on

:03:39.:03:44.

the BBC this Ute um he was introduced to the anti-extremist

:03:44.:03:52.

group the quill yam foundation. They have demonstrated a level of courage

:03:52.:03:56.

because let's not forget there are elements within the EDL that will be

:03:56.:04:00.

furious right now. They will consider them traitors. I know that

:04:00.:04:06.

because there were elements within my movement that considered me a

:04:06.:04:08.

traitor. The reaction from EDL supporters is

:04:08.:04:21.

hard to measure at this stage. On internet forums there are plenty of

:04:21.:04:25.

comments for support for Robinson. Many of disbelief.

:04:25.:04:43.

In some ways Tommy Robinson is a spokesperson for a number of

:04:43.:04:48.

regional English Defence Leagues. That, however, is a problem. It is

:04:48.:04:57.

far easier for the police to contain and to control demonstrations that

:04:57.:05:00.

the English Defence League has when there is one leader and one group.

:05:00.:05:05.

Actually if the group fragments and turns into a large number of

:05:05.:05:09.

smaller, sometimes quite nasty groups, it's going to be far harder

:05:09.:05:13.

to police. As for Tommy Robinson, there is now talk of leading a new

:05:13.:05:18.

political group. The question for many is whether that will just be a

:05:18.:05:23.

watered down version of the English Defence League or it can be

:05:23.:05:28.

something different, genuinely non-violent and genuinely

:05:28.:05:32.

non-racist. Tommy Robinson is here. When did you decide that you had to

:05:32.:05:40.

leave? I decided in February. I spent 18 weeks on Her Majesty's

:05:40.:05:45.

pleasure and was in solitary confinement and it was the best

:05:45.:05:48.

thing that happened to me. I had a long time think where I was going

:05:48.:05:53.

and where the movement was going. When I came out of prison, I see the

:05:53.:05:59.

organisation, elements of the organisation, fringe elements on the

:05:59.:06:04.

outskirts had been welcomed back. I had battled to keep racists out of

:06:04.:06:09.

this movement, and they were invited back and I felt let down by the

:06:09.:06:13.

people in the organisation that were in positions, the same people

:06:13.:06:17.

calling me a traitor now, in positions that invited Nazis to

:06:17.:06:20.

stand with them in the face. It is my face that is up for this. I have

:06:20.:06:25.

to be true to myself. I despies Nazis and I despies racism. That was

:06:25.:06:31.

one thing, I had made that decision, I hadn't left. What was the EDL,

:06:31.:06:37.

what is the EDL if it is not racist. I want to say a personal thank you

:06:37.:06:41.

to supporters of the English Defence League, because it is become my

:06:41.:06:45.

life. I see this as a massive step forward in the fight against Islamic

:06:45.:06:50.

extremism and far-right extremism. The EDL is a collective group of

:06:50.:06:53.

ordinary people, the majority of people in the movement are ordinary

:06:53.:06:56.

people with heart felt concerns and they have been branded racists for

:06:56.:07:00.

four-and-a-half years, everyone has called me a racist. You did say

:07:00.:07:04.

there should be no more Mosques built in Britain. I said there

:07:04.:07:10.

should be no more Mosques unless they are regulated like schools are

:07:10.:07:17.

with Ofsted. We need British born Muslims in control of the Mosques.

:07:17.:07:21.

What is coming out of this, everyone saying the EDL is being taken over

:07:21.:07:27.

by Nazis. The first demonstration I didn't go to was Manchester, they

:07:27.:07:32.

were welcomed back. There was splinter groups gave speeches, so

:07:32.:07:36.

for me, this is all about being a public face, we have done this for

:07:36.:07:40.

four years, raised the profile, it has been successful in bringing

:07:40.:07:44.

things to the forefront. Have you changed your views? I want people to

:07:44.:07:50.

listen to my views. What people portray my views is not what they

:07:50.:07:55.

are. I don't hate Muslims. Why do you want to stop Mosques being

:07:55.:07:59.

built. Unless they are moderated and regulated. Because I believe there

:07:59.:08:02.

is a problem. We see problems in documentaries and they say that's

:08:02.:08:05.

not Islam and it is not representative, but there is a

:08:05.:08:09.

problem. For me, this leaving is about, we are four years in, I see

:08:09.:08:14.

it as a step forward, I see it as an nechltable progression into what we

:08:14.:08:17.

were doing and I don't see beneficial doing what we were doing.

:08:17.:08:20.

Do you think this country is in danger? I have sat in there and

:08:20.:08:25.

watched the news and we have 2,000 British people fight fighting

:08:25.:08:31.

al-Sheebab. The biggest threat to this country is Islamist terrorist

:08:31.:08:36.

extremism. I despies far-right extremism. I have battled through

:08:36.:08:40.

this organisation to be true and steer it in what me and my cousin

:08:40.:08:45.

have built it on. You haven't changed your views? No, basically

:08:45.:08:49.

no-one is listening to what I have said for four-and-a-half years. Our

:08:49.:08:52.

message has been lost in translation because of the actions of minority.

:08:52.:08:57.

This is more serious than marching through streets. I have three

:08:57.:09:01.

beautiful children and I want them to grow up in a safe Britain and the

:09:01.:09:07.

same, when I met these lads with quill yam, to anyone saying I have

:09:07.:09:12.

bottled out, when I met this week with a Pakistani girl who is working

:09:12.:09:16.

within that organisation and they have set up offices in Pakistan

:09:16.:09:19.

where the Taliban are operating and they are there on the ground

:09:19.:09:23.

tackling extremism, that is not bottling out. That is putting your

:09:23.:09:25.

life on the front line to tackle bottling out. That is putting your

:09:25.:09:29.

extremism. That is what I want to do. I don't want to let these

:09:29.:09:33.

supporters down, who have meant everything to me and got three

:09:33.:09:36.

through four years, because a voice has been built for them and that is

:09:36.:09:40.

what this has become, a voice for working class people. I want to use

:09:40.:09:45.

the voice in a positive way. Not in a positive way where it is

:09:45.:09:48.

discriminating against Muslims. I will take this opportunity to say to

:09:48.:09:54.

Muslim, if anyone has felt fear and intimidation, I apologise for that.

:09:54.:10:01.

I ask them to listen, that British women and non-Muslim women are

:10:01.:10:04.

feeling scared. It is about showing people the right way. When I am

:10:04.:10:08.

asking my supporters, I see this as the right step forward. I see

:10:08.:10:12.

working with quill yam, working with Muslim reformists and

:10:12.:10:16.

anti-extremists, I see it as the way to go. I ask them to put faith in

:10:16.:10:20.

me. This has been the biggest decision of my life. This is the

:10:20.:10:24.

hardest thing I have had to do. All the things I have wanted to do, this

:10:24.:10:29.

has been the hardest thing. Are you more optimistic now? I am more

:10:29.:10:36.

optimistic after meet meeting with quill yam. It is a massive blow to

:10:36.:10:49.

extremism. I want to be true to my representation. Half my best

:10:49.:10:56.

friends- I am not willing for demonstrations to go on that I can't

:10:56.:11:01.

attend and me be the public face. Not so long ago you were saying EDL

:11:01.:11:07.

till I die. People are saying I have surrendered. I see this as taking

:11:07.:11:12.

two steps forward. I see this as a massive, massive move forward and a

:11:12.:11:18.

massive blow to the Islamist ideology in this country. To

:11:18.:11:22.

overcome the threat, we have to work with must lemmings. Is Do you think

:11:22.:11:36.

there are too many Muslims in this country? We have to protect our

:11:36.:11:41.

culture. We have to protect immigration. I want an end to

:11:41.:11:45.

immigration, Islamic imgroupings, until the problem is solved. You can

:11:45.:11:51.

carry on building Mosques when they are moderated and regulated. But

:11:51.:11:55.

there has to be movement on either side. I want what is best for this

:11:55.:11:57.

country. You can be British and side. I want what is best for this

:11:57.:12:03.

black and you can be a Muslim British? You can be English and be a

:12:03.:12:09.

Muslim. The man from Essex, I am from Luton tourngs there is no

:12:10.:12:16.

difference between us. If Pakistani heritage Muslims, wearing England

:12:16.:12:22.

tops and proud to embrace the Union Jack, every one of those supporters

:12:22.:12:25.

would be happy much the way these supporters are judged is so unfair.

:12:25.:12:29.

I have spent time with them. They are all decent people. There is an

:12:29.:12:33.

element that I have battled and for me it is about moving forward what I

:12:33.:12:39.

think is right, at the same time, it is about I am the public face. What

:12:39.:12:43.

people forget, when they left their top-up and there is a picture of a

:12:43.:12:47.

mosque with boom on it, that is my face that is being represented with

:12:47.:12:52.

that. Such strong issues, I am spending all my time fight against

:12:52.:13:00.

elements in the EDL. Thank you. Coming up Heinz Wolff is figuring

:13:00.:13:04.

out how to build a Hadron Collider with a golf ball, a torch, and a

:13:04.:13:12.

pebble. America is still celebrating the

:13:12.:13:15.

capture at the weekend of Anas al-Libby, the Libyan seized by US

:13:15.:13:19.

forces on suspicious of terrorist outrages. His presence in the

:13:20.:13:24.

country is a further sign that more than two years since western

:13:24.:13:27.

intervention in Libya, it is a far from security and settled state.

:13:27.:13:31.

Britain played a prominent part in the intervention. Now, our reporter

:13:31.:13:36.

has returned to eastern Libya where the revolt began and where it was

:13:36.:13:43.

declared victorious. They fought Guadalajara, now they

:13:43.:13:48.

are ready to fight the revolutionary government they replaced him with

:13:48.:13:52.

T Two years ago Britain and other

:13:52.:13:57.

western powers helped Libyan militias like this win freedom from

:13:57.:14:02.

tyranny now Britain is being asked to help free the countries from the

:14:02.:14:07.

militias themselves as they become the new tyrants. The oil that should

:14:07.:14:12.

fle from this term nail is Libya's main source of wealth. But the

:14:12.:14:18.

militia have shut the industry down. That is losing the country $130

:14:18.:14:24.

million a day. Former rebel commanders refuse to return to

:14:25.:14:31.

civilian life. We were hoping to lay down our weapons and go home but we

:14:31.:14:36.

realise if we do that now, revolutionaries like us will be

:14:36.:14:40.

killed on our doorsteps. The revolution has been stolen from us.

:14:40.:14:45.

Ex Exports won't restart until the east of the country, which has most

:14:45.:14:49.

of the oil, is allowed to keep most of the revenue for itself. Their

:14:49.:14:55.

leader, a prisoner under Gaddafi, is holding the country to ransome. Our

:14:55.:15:02.

numbers are more than 20,000 and growing. People joining from various

:15:02.:15:09.

ex-army units, police and border patrols. All we want is for everyone

:15:09.:15:14.

to have their fair share. If the government thinks of attack

:15:14.:15:20.

attacking us it will lead to a real civil war but we know they don't

:15:20.:15:23.

have the power to do that. Along the road from the term nail, the remains

:15:23.:15:28.

of the battle that saved eastern Libya for the rebels two years ago.

:15:28.:15:33.

Gaddafi's forces were smashed first by French and then by British

:15:33.:15:37.

missiles as the dictator attempted a counter offensive. In total Britain

:15:37.:15:46.

spent £212 million on its air campaign in Libya.

:15:46.:16:07.

Your city was an inspiration to the world as you threw off a dictator

:16:07.:16:16.

and chose freedom. Now Ben GAZ-24y so dangerous no western official

:16:16.:16:23.

will set foot here. Two years on from David Cameron's appearance

:16:23.:16:27.

here, it's clear that gnat toe missiles didn't only depose a

:16:27.:16:32.

dictator, they helped destroy a state. Before Libyans were terrified

:16:32.:16:36.

of the police. Now they are terrified by the lack of them.

:16:36.:16:41.

Gaddafi warned that he would be replaced by tribalism, Islamic

:16:41.:16:45.

extremism and anarchy. And in large measure he's been proved right. This

:16:45.:16:52.

police station is one of several here that had been bombed

:16:52.:16:56.

repeatedly. The attackers unknown. There are almost daily assassination

:16:56.:17:00.

attempts on military officers or public figures. Flying openly over

:17:00.:17:07.

parts of the city, the black flag of Jihad. What we have here, we have a

:17:07.:17:13.

geographical region that is void of the presence of a state. This region

:17:13.:17:20.

is under the control of extremist radical movements that are either

:17:20.:17:25.

sympathetic or in full co-operation with Al-Qaeda. This suspected

:17:25.:17:32.

Al-Qaeda leader is now being intergrated on an American warship

:17:32.:17:37.

on the med after being snatched by US forces at the weekend from his

:17:37.:17:44.

on the med after being snatched by car in Tripoli where he was living

:17:44.:17:53.

legally. These are the kind of recyclable weapons they could get

:17:53.:17:58.

their hands on. This pile of order Nantes recovered from bunkers has

:17:58.:18:02.

been secured by a British demining charity but many similar sites, with

:18:02.:18:07.

serviceable weapons have been taken over by militias, or left open to

:18:07.:18:12.

looters. We have this particular ammunition storage area, we have

:18:12.:18:18.

removed up wards of 35 tonnes of explosive content which equates to

:18:18.:18:24.

probably 70,000 plus individual items of ordnance. If you take this

:18:24.:18:29.

as a snapshot and times that by 400, that gives you a bit of an estimate

:18:29.:18:33.

of how big the problem here really is. Libya is now thought to have the

:18:33.:18:40.

world's largest unsecured arms scabbing pile. Millions of tonnes of

:18:40.:18:46.

weapons are unaccounted for, including up to 8,000 manpowered

:18:46.:18:50.

portable missile systems. Even Libya's Prime Minister

:18:50.:19:14.

acknowledges the scale of the threat. Weapons are being smuggled

:19:14.:19:22.

from and into Libya by groups which are trying to murder people and

:19:22.:19:27.

spread terror. The movement of these weapons is also putting our

:19:27.:19:29.

neighbouring countries at risk. We weapons is also putting our

:19:29.:19:33.

need international co-operation to stop it. Not all militia are

:19:33.:19:41.

extremists. These aren't. But there will be no order until they are all

:19:41.:19:43.

extremists. These aren't. But there forged into a national army. That's

:19:43.:19:47.

where Libya most needs foreign help. Hundreds of fighters will be sent

:19:47.:19:51.

for training to Britain and other countries later this year. But it

:19:51.:19:55.

will be a slow process, partly because militias have supporters

:19:55.:19:57.

will be a slow process, partly within the government. They are paid

:19:57.:20:01.

huge sums by the state, even when they oppose it. The extremist

:20:01.:20:07.

militias understood from the very beginning of the revolution that

:20:07.:20:12.

their main foe in the future would be a military institution. Thus they

:20:12.:20:19.

chose to control the Ministry of Defence and the Prime Ministerry and

:20:19.:20:22.

parliament in order to prevent the creation of a proper army that would

:20:22.:20:27.

serve the people and the interests of the people. In this home, a

:20:27.:20:34.

former rebel commander is keeping his weapons safe. His Islamist

:20:34.:20:39.

militia was driven off the streets by popular protest but he thinks

:20:40.:20:43.

they will be back. You keep these here all the time? Yes. Sometimes

:20:43.:20:50.

you may get the impression that people hate the brigades but that's

:20:50.:20:54.

not completely true. Now a year on there are people who are demanding

:20:55.:21:00.

our return. The Prime Minister admits his power is very limited. We

:21:00.:21:08.

are in a state of revolution, so we have no choice. The Libyan state has

:21:08.:21:13.

no control over the repercussions of the revolution because the state is

:21:13.:21:20.

weak. Now with no end in sight to the oil blockade, the state is

:21:20.:21:24.

getting weaker by the day. America's raid on Tripoli may reflect a new

:21:24.:21:28.

estimation in Washington that the government can't turn the corner,

:21:28.:21:31.

the failing state could become a failed one. Look at Libya, President

:21:31.:21:37.

Assad said recently, for a lesson in the results of outside intervention

:21:37.:21:42.

in a civil war. He would say that of course, but now there may be former

:21:42.:21:48.

interventionists who would agree. Oliver Miles is the former British

:21:48.:21:53.

ambassador to Libya and he is here with Rory Stewart. Taking up the

:21:53.:21:57.

point there, when you look at the state that cannot secure itself,

:21:57.:22:01.

cannot even protect its own main source of income it is close to a

:22:01.:22:06.

failed state. I think that is exaggerated. I think it is a long

:22:06.:22:12.

way from being a failed state. I think that there are real problems,

:22:12.:22:18.

it is very fragile but considering they had a real revolution only two

:22:18.:22:24.

years ago and they replace replaced a vile dictatorship, which was

:22:24.:22:30.

unique in the way it had absolutely flattened all institutions in Libya,

:22:30.:22:33.

destroyed every institution, including the mosque, including the

:22:33.:22:36.

army, including the police, there was nothing, so they are build from

:22:36.:22:39.

nothing, it is a very difficult task. Do you reckon it is a failed

:22:39.:22:43.

state for close to it? It is close to it. It is a very, very awful

:22:43.:22:47.

situation. It is not yet a full out civil war. It may be and it is a

:22:47.:22:52.

terrible thing to say, but it may be better than living under Gaddafi but

:22:52.:22:56.

it is a terrible situation. It does prove that Gaddafi was possibly

:22:56.:23:02.

right in saying that a country like that required a very, very strong

:23:02.:23:07.

tire an cal government. This is what all these people say, it is what

:23:07.:23:12.

Assad said, what Saddam said, it is the obvious thing to say in the

:23:12.:23:15.

Middle East. They are right. Certainly when the strong man goes

:23:15.:23:19.

you have a lot of trouble. The question is what do you do, do you

:23:19.:23:22.

put up with someone like Assad, because what he is saying at the

:23:22.:23:26.

moment is I am the man who keeps order. He is maintaining a civil

:23:26.:23:30.

war. Would you say the same of Mussolini, he ran the place before

:23:30.:23:35.

Gaddafi, are you saying they need a Mussolini, surely not. When you look

:23:35.:23:41.

at western interveinings, what Karzai said about Afghanistan, they

:23:41.:23:47.

are hardly happy Presidents? No they are not, I would was very doubtful

:23:47.:23:53.

about intervention in Libya, I was against t but I was wrong. Having

:23:53.:23:57.

been to Libya since the revolution and seen what a happy country it is

:23:57.:24:01.

compared to the way it was before, I think what we did was right. On that

:24:01.:24:06.

one, I was struck on the two trips I went to Libya, I went pessimistic, I

:24:06.:24:11.

turned up the day after Gaddafi had fallen, you can see the groups

:24:11.:24:17.

deafing, but it was much better -- developing: It is a terrible thing

:24:17.:24:21.

to say, but it is better than it could have been. It isn't yet an all

:24:21.:24:25.

out civil war. It still has a hope. It is a very, very worrying

:24:25.:24:30.

situation, when you have all these vast numbers of untracked weapons.

:24:30.:24:35.

Sure, that is a very serious problem. It is a problem that may

:24:35.:24:40.

yet cause very serious trouble not only in Libya but elsewhere. But

:24:40.:24:43.

that is a different issue from whether it is a failed state. We

:24:43.:24:47.

need to be realistic about intervention and understand that

:24:47.:24:50.

with these sorts of interventions we may have to accept this is a

:24:50.:24:53.

possibility. When we do these things over the next 20 years, people need

:24:53.:24:57.

to realise there are no good choices. You don't think better not

:24:57.:25:01.

to do them? Either better not to do them is one view. But what I don't

:25:01.:25:06.

think is the idea we should be dragged into nation building. This

:25:06.:25:11.

failed state, Gaddafi didn't have a state himself, he ran is in a

:25:11.:25:17.

bizarre fashion. There wasn't much of a state to take over. Correct. In

:25:17.:25:22.

ewapiti for example, when push came to shove they turned to the army.

:25:22.:25:26.

There is no army to turn to in libbia, there's nothing. The

:25:26.:25:32.

alternative will look like Algeria, military oppression against

:25:32.:25:37.

Islamists. That looks very nasty too. Algeria was a civil war in

:25:37.:25:44.

which hundreds of thousands of people were killed, it went on for

:25:44.:25:48.

20 years, it is a similar country to labouria. What we are praying for

:25:48.:25:53.

Libya that it is a leadership that can emerge will avoid that. There's

:25:53.:26:04.

been this interference with the oil Simplirix which was essentially

:26:04.:26:09.

because the people who were guarding the oil facilities were not being

:26:09.:26:13.

paid and they took the law into their own hands, which was a

:26:13.:26:16.

suicidal thing to do for the country, not for them individually.

:26:16.:26:20.

But that problem has been partly solved. Similar thing happened with

:26:20.:26:26.

the water. That has been solved. There are moves in the right

:26:26.:26:32.

direction. The militias which were controlling the airport and frontier

:26:32.:26:36.

posts a year ago are no longer doing so. It's now being done centrally.

:26:36.:26:42.

You have to keep these things in perspective. One of the things the

:26:42.:26:47.

report mentioned was that now in eastern Libya there is an

:26:47.:26:51.

assassination attempt almost every day. In Iraq, 1,000 people were

:26:51.:26:57.

murdered last month and 1,000 people the month before that. Egypt, Syria,

:26:57.:27:04.

Iraq, Algeria, this is the context in which we need to see what is

:27:04.:27:08.

happening in Libya. It is a tragic situation but I still feel Gaddafi

:27:08.:27:14.

had to go. Thank you very much. A woman's right to shoes was the way

:27:14.:27:19.

one character put it in Sex And The City. There is no question that

:27:19.:27:25.

shoes in one form or another, high heels or loafers, or cowboy boots

:27:25.:27:28.

are the fashion obsession of the 21st century. There are still people

:27:28.:27:32.

living in places like carnes house who remain proud of the pair which

:27:32.:27:34.

living in places like carnes house has served them for 40 years.

:27:34.:27:59.

Tamara Mellon, I want to start with Jimmy Choo, you built a spectacular

:27:59.:28:05.

brand, but your whole business model sounds like it was incredibly

:28:06.:28:10.

painful. It was very difficult because we had private equity come

:28:10.:28:15.

into the business and very often their interests are not aligned with

:28:15.:28:20.

yours. I believe that private equity has turned into something that was

:28:20.:28:25.

never meant to be. It's become a way for guys to get fees by flipping

:28:25.:28:29.

companies. So they want to come in and out of a company within two to

:28:29.:28:33.

three years and for a management team to go through a sale process

:28:33.:28:38.

every two, three years is just not sustainable. I geese people will be

:28:38.:28:43.

listening to this and say private equity made you incredibly rich. I

:28:43.:28:49.

would say I made them incredibly rich. They are not experts in the

:28:49.:28:54.

luxury business, none of them had been in it before. I think there is

:28:54.:28:58.

a big misconception about them funding the business. They don't

:28:58.:29:03.

fund the business. They take debt to buy shares and the company pays the

:29:03.:29:08.

interest on their debt. In fact it is a burden on the business rather

:29:08.:29:10.

than a help. Do you think there were gender

:29:10.:29:22.

assumptions or do you think you were difficult to work with? That is such

:29:22.:29:26.

an easy comment to make about a woman in business. I have had other

:29:26.:29:33.

comments like she's just wants to be a celebrity. I don't think we in

:29:33.:29:39.

this country should be discouraging women entrepreneurs in that way.

:29:39.:29:41.

this country should be discouraging That is a very sexist slander. It's

:29:41.:29:45.

not a slander, I am asking you the question, what was it that you think

:29:45.:29:50.

came from them? I think because they have a fear of women in business and

:29:50.:29:54.

I think they believe that the only way to work with women is to bully

:29:54.:30:00.

and control, rather than understand this person's an asset and if we

:30:00.:30:04.

collaborate we are going to get so much more out of this.

:30:04.:30:11.

What do you think accounted for the success of Jimmy Choo, was it the

:30:11.:30:23.

tailormanship, was it the design or was it the branding, the marketing?

:30:23.:30:26.

It was a combination of everything. I couldn't have done it if I didn't

:30:26.:30:30.

have the product. Everything always has to come back to the product. The

:30:30.:30:34.

most important thing for a luxury brand is quality and innovation.

:30:35.:30:41.

Innovation is a curious word because you found Jimmy Choo by all accounts

:30:42.:30:46.

who, you said never designed a single shoe. The plan was for Jimmy

:30:46.:30:50.

to design the collection and I would run the operations of the business.

:30:50.:30:54.

But it became very clear that Jimmy's technical skill was in, he

:30:54.:30:59.

was connectically skilled in making a shoe but didn't have the creative

:30:59.:31:10.

vision to design a collection. Wait! I lost my Khoo. How key do you think

:31:10.:31:16.

Sex And The City was to that whole brand understanding for Jimmy Choo?

:31:16.:31:19.

Sex And The City was to that whole That was a big milestone for us. It

:31:19.:31:23.

was huge, because it turns you into a household name overnight. Being in

:31:23.:31:27.

a glossy magazine is amazing and it value dates you, but that is the

:31:27.:31:32.

type of thing that you are just a household name and not all those

:31:32.:31:35.

people will buy your core product but it leads you into being able to

:31:35.:31:40.

do fragrance and sunglasses and the aspirational product that people can

:31:40.:31:46.

buy into. And that programme, your brand, sold the heel as a power tool

:31:46.:31:52.

for women. It was a you can do anything. The truth is, the heel is

:31:53.:32:00.

crippling, slow you down, make you precarious, don't give you power,

:32:00.:32:06.

they give you bunions. I could argue it the other way. I know that I feel

:32:06.:32:11.

more empowered when I am taller, I can look a man in the eye, and I

:32:11.:32:17.

like the way it holds my posture. And shoes, high heels should not be

:32:17.:32:23.

painful. Come on, tell me you have never had an uncomfortable pair? I

:32:23.:32:28.

have, but most shoe designers are men. This time round I have been

:32:28.:32:33.

back to the last factory in Italy and worked with the last maker to

:32:33.:32:36.

back to the last factory in Italy make sure my heels are comfortable,

:32:36.:32:40.

I don't want to be in pain. The Culture Secretary says she's hoping

:32:40.:32:43.

to say on Friday what the Government wants to do about regulating the

:32:44.:32:49.

press. Reported last night the sub-committee of the Privy Council

:32:49.:32:53.

considering the newspapers own ideas on the subject had Chucked them out

:32:53.:32:54.

considering the newspapers own ideas much the Government is now ducking

:32:54.:32:59.

and driving to try to find some form of words which might satisfy

:32:59.:33:03.

everyone not least Labour and the Liberal Democrats, who thought there

:33:03.:33:07.

was an agreed cross-party position on the issue. Here is an update on

:33:07.:33:15.

where we are now. In July 2011 the Leveson Inquiry was

:33:15.:33:20.

set up into phone hacking and so began a 30-month fight between the

:33:20.:33:25.

press and politicians. In November 2012 its report said hacking had

:33:25.:33:30.

wreaked havoc with lives of innocent people. By March 2013 all political

:33:30.:33:33.

parties supported a royal charter people. By March 2013 all political

:33:33.:33:38.

for press regulation. By April this would be rejected by all but two of

:33:38.:33:43.

Britain's 11 national newspapers. The other nine put forward their own

:33:43.:33:47.

royal charter and since early summer, a small group of cabinet

:33:47.:33:51.

ministers has been considering it. They wrapped up on Monday. Yesterday

:33:51.:33:57.

Newsnight revealed that the Cabinet ministers charged with reviewing the

:33:57.:34:02.

press's charter had rejected it and today following our revelations, the

:34:02.:34:07.

Culture Secretary came to the House of Commons to make an unscheduled

:34:07.:34:11.

statement. Yes, the Government would be rejecting the press's charter,

:34:11.:34:15.

but they had some compromises within it. The committee of the Privy

:34:15.:34:22.

Council is unable to recommend the press proposal for a royal charter

:34:22.:34:29.

be granted. Whilst there are areas where it is acceptable it is unable

:34:29.:34:34.

to comply with some important Leveson principles, having

:34:34.:34:38.

considered the press charter the committee has identified two

:34:38.:34:41.

substantive areas, access to arbitration and the editor's code.

:34:41.:34:47.

Where we could improve what's in the 18th March draft. Newsnight

:34:47.:34:52.

understands that Tory cabinet ministers on the Privy Council more

:34:52.:34:55.

mindful of newspapers a concerns pushed for two of their own

:34:55.:34:59.

overtures to the press, but another significant element revealed today

:34:59.:35:03.

was that the Tories accepted the eventual charter needs to be agreed

:35:03.:35:08.

by all three parties and so Labour has to approve everything in order

:35:08.:35:11.

for the eventual proposal to remain a cross-party one. We believe the

:35:11.:35:16.

charter should have been submitted for consideration at the Privy

:35:16.:35:18.

charter should have been submitted Council meeting tomorrow but it will

:35:18.:35:21.

not be going to that meeting because the Prime Minister has chosen to

:35:21.:35:25.

delay its submission to the end of this month. We regret this because

:35:25.:35:29.

there has been nearly a year since Leveson reported and six months

:35:29.:35:33.

since the House agreed the draft charter. Mr Speaker, there has

:35:33.:35:37.

already been too much delay. All involved know the victims of phone

:35:37.:35:41.

hacking are getting fed up with waiting, so the Labour Party now has

:35:41.:35:46.

to make decisions at a breakneck speed. Newsnight understands they

:35:46.:35:51.

feel they can wear one Tory compromise but are more concerned by

:35:52.:35:59.

a second one, over the editors code. All political parties must have

:35:59.:36:03.

agreed a final draft text by this Friday. If this new charter can't be

:36:03.:36:09.

agreed by then, then on October 30th the original cross-party charter so

:36:09.:36:13.

loathed by the press will be rubber-stamped.

:36:13.:36:17.

With us now is Jacqui Hames, the former police officer who had her

:36:17.:36:21.

phone hacked and is now a spokesperson for the Hacked Off

:36:21.:36:24.

campaign, and Roger altogetheron Executive Editor of the Times but is

:36:24.:36:31.

here as a hummable human being. All over for you guys, isn't it?

:36:31.:36:39.

Well, I wouldn't talk about one of the most important struggles for a

:36:39.:36:43.

key aspect of our democracy, freedom of the press as if it is Arsenal

:36:43.:36:48.

versus Norwich, and I think there is a very, very long way to go. The

:36:48.:36:53.

industry has made extraordinary concessions. Three days. Three days

:36:53.:37:01.

before the Privy Council decides whether to accept T there will be a

:37:01.:37:05.

lot of bargaining over the next few days. I think it won't work. Then we

:37:05.:37:09.

have to move on to the next step. The idea what the press which is

:37:09.:37:15.

given so much away, a million pound fines, massive investigatory powers,

:37:15.:37:20.

is going to accept something that nobody wants. It can't have a

:37:20.:37:25.

voluntary system of self-regulation. What do you mean nobody wants, you

:37:25.:37:30.

want it? I think so, the majority of the readers of the Times want T

:37:30.:37:35.

there was a U Gough poll commissioned by yourselves and your

:37:35.:37:39.

readers want you to accept the independent regulation that we are

:37:39.:37:45.

supporting. We completely accept the need to change the nature of

:37:45.:37:48.

regulation. We have put in place a hole heap of things. We don't want a

:37:48.:37:56.

stat tribody because that is the end of 300 years of the free press. You

:37:56.:38:00.

have to accept that. I Don't accept it whatsoever. By proposing your own

:38:00.:38:08.

own version of the royal charter aren't you accepting that is the

:38:08.:38:10.

own version of the royal charter mechanism to do this. There are two

:38:10.:38:15.

choices, one which is compliant with the representations of a judge who

:38:15.:38:22.

sat down and had a very intensive inquiry and his recommendations are

:38:22.:38:27.

accepted not only by parliament, all three parties for the first time in

:38:27.:38:31.

goodness knows how many years have agreed but also by the majority of

:38:31.:38:36.

the public. Your readership, they want you to be regulated

:38:36.:38:40.

independently. You know the public's on her side. I question that.

:38:40.:38:50.

Really? The we have one of the great raucous Viteal presses in the Welsh

:38:50.:38:54.

world. Which goes around hacking people's phones. Those were shocking

:38:54.:38:59.

criminal offences and a heap of trials are about to take place. Do

:38:59.:39:04.

we need more laws. There are laws engulfing the press. You don't want

:39:04.:39:08.

to have parliament involved. You must admit that. Hacked off doesn't

:39:08.:39:14.

like the press. What you have to look at is the press charter had

:39:14.:39:22.

more opportunities within it for politicians to be involved than the

:39:23.:39:27.

one that Lord Justice Leveson is compliant. You have to actually take

:39:27.:39:32.

a bit of a calmer view. I know it is passionate, we all feel passionate

:39:32.:39:35.

about free speech. I would not be sitting here if I thought for one

:39:35.:39:42.

moment that was in danger. If this particular proposal kills off some

:39:42.:39:46.

newspapers as the newspaper industry say, it may well local newspapers,

:39:46.:39:53.

then would that be a good outcome? , don't think that is the case,

:39:53.:39:58.

clearly there is a revolution going on with technology and news

:39:58.:40:01.

gathering and output in the way that it is consumed by the public. I

:40:01.:40:06.

think that is every industry is going through that because of the

:40:06.:40:11.

world, the electronic world we live in. That is nothing to do with the

:40:11.:40:15.

fact that the public are sick of being bullied and having this

:40:15.:40:19.

culture of newspapers taking advantage of their power. You can't

:40:19.:40:27.

have a voluntary system where the volunteers don't want to volunteer.

:40:27.:40:34.

I think what will happen is judicial review possibility. I think that you

:40:34.:40:39.

could go to Europe because we think it is an unjust law and see what

:40:39.:40:42.

Europe has to say. The idea papers are going to roll over and do

:40:42.:40:47.

something they don't believe in is unlikely. I would hope we don't. I

:40:47.:40:51.

would rather do anything than submit to something that is such a brazen

:40:51.:40:58.

blockage on a great, great institution in Britain. The sad

:40:58.:41:03.

thing is you need to read the recommendations of Leveson and you

:41:03.:41:06.

will realise it enshrines free speech. He has had them. One thing

:41:06.:41:15.

you can guarantee he has read them. The recognition body, whether that

:41:15.:41:20.

is parliamentary or whether it is set up in the way we would... There

:41:20.:41:26.

are plenty of safeguards to ensure you would need three-quarters of the

:41:26.:41:31.

Houses of Parliament to agree to start change changing it. Certainly

:41:31.:41:41.

that there are more safeguards... Thank you very much. Two October

:41:41.:41:46.

general areas achieved a triumph today when they were awarded the

:41:46.:41:53.

Nobel Prize for physics. One was a Belgian, the other is Peter Higgs of

:41:53.:42:02.

Edinburgh University, the man after the Higgs boson was named.

:42:02.:42:13.

Dr Heinz Wolff is going to tell us about it, but first here is the man

:42:13.:42:17.

himself explaining what a Higgs boson is.

:42:17.:42:24.

The Higgs boson is associated with this field, it is the relation

:42:24.:42:40.

between waves and particles, electro electromagnetive waves, waves in

:42:40.:42:49.

this quantity which oz lates up and down that trough. That probably

:42:49.:42:58.

tells you nothing. So, to assist us is another October general area, Dr

:42:58.:43:04.

Heinz Wolff, how old are you? 85. You are in sprightly form. Explain

:43:04.:43:10.

to us what is the Higgs boson. Let me explain something else, I have a

:43:10.:43:14.

pebble here, and it has a property, a mass, if I throw it at you, you

:43:14.:43:22.

would get hurt, you get hurt because the speed of the particle and the

:43:22.:43:29.

mass which conveys the energy. Physicists have tried to get a

:43:29.:43:33.

unified theory of how mass actually works. The theory was, if there are

:43:33.:43:41.

three particles which were essentially massless. There was a

:43:41.:43:46.

gap, like having built a Lego model and there is a hole in it and you

:43:46.:43:50.

have to find a piece to fill the hole. Peter Higgs, 40 years ago,

:43:50.:44:00.

operating at a mental level of mathematics and theoretical physics,

:44:00.:44:06.

said there must be a particle which fits the hole, which conveys a

:44:06.:44:11.

property of mass to all other particles. People People built huge

:44:11.:44:21.

pieces of machinery. The Higgs boson particles. People People built huge

:44:21.:44:29.

was produced. He had thought of it, but it was produced. What is the

:44:29.:44:33.

golf ball and torch got to do with it? I was just, the torch I brought

:44:33.:44:39.

because to make particles isn't very difficult, there are particles

:44:39.:44:44.

coming out of the front of here now. They are don't have mass because

:44:45.:44:50.

they have frequency. I can't make the other particles. What he had

:44:50.:45:01.

worked out in his mind turned out 20 decades later to be true. That is a

:45:01.:45:07.

very considerable achievement. And it's taken billions of pounds and

:45:08.:45:10.

very considerable achievement. And hundreds of engineers and hundreds

:45:10.:45:14.

of scientists to construct a machine which was capable of producing the

:45:14.:45:21.

huge energies which are required to liberate the Higgs boson. There may

:45:21.:45:27.

be more than one, but people now believe that the theory is very

:45:27.:45:35.

nearly complete and the physicist can explain by enlarge what matters

:45:35.:45:40.

are made of and why it has mass. If you think about the Higgs boson, it

:45:40.:45:44.

isn't the particles, they aren't spheres, but they have a force field

:45:44.:45:48.

around them. Any other particle which is in that field requires

:45:48.:45:57.

mass. Therefore can convey energy. That is what it is. Part of the

:45:57.:46:03.

problem was the difficulty of making it, because it could only be made by

:46:03.:46:09.

getting two protons, which are particles that do have mass, to

:46:09.:46:13.

collide in a very large piece of machinery at the speed of light, and

:46:13.:46:17.

the fragments that come out of this, one of them turned out to be the

:46:17.:46:23.

Higgs boson. Brilliant, I am almost there, thank you very much.

:46:23.:46:28.

Tomorrow morning's front pages, almost all of them go with the

:46:28.:46:33.

accusation that The Guardian has haven'ted a gift to terrorist with

:46:33.:46:39.

its revelations about surveillance mechanisms. That is about it for

:46:39.:46:44.

tonight. We will be back tomorrow. Before we go, they are remaking the

:46:44.:46:51.

famous horror movie Carrie, about a girl who uses her telly Kennetic

:46:51.:46:56.

powers to exact revenge on her tormentors. A new film-maker has

:46:56.:47:01.

modified a New York coffee shop and hired actors and cameras among the

:47:01.:47:04.

modified a New York coffee shop and real customers. This is what

:47:04.:47:06.

happened. Good night.

:47:06.:47:13.

Oh my God. You just ruined all of my stuff. It's nap kins, clean it up.

:47:13.:47:21.

There is coffee inside my computer. Just get away from me.

:47:22.:47:26.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS