12/11/2013 Newsnight


Typhoon charity appeal. NHS winter crisis. Cameron and the shrinking state. John Tavener dies. Ireland's recovery. Interview with Lady Gaga. With Jeremy Paxman.

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 12/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!



This programme contains flash photography.


Good evening. The readiness of British people to give money to try


to help relieve suffering has been in evidence again tonight as


millions of pounds seem to be being donated to help victims of the


typhoon in the Philippines. This is a humanitarian crisis so the DEC


needs us to act now. Please help.


Thank you. What is that makes us give to these


appeals, to some more than others and is there a better way of


organising these things? Ireland is about to become the first


eurozone country to emerge from its bail out. What has the nation


learned from its latest experience of hair shirts and pence? There is


nor charity in what people do and the way they help each other and I


think it made us better. And Lady Gaga is in town. They try


me what to do the entire time? Even now? Yes, of course.


You would have to have a heart of stone not to be distressed by the


scenes of suffering caused by the Philippines typhoon. The broadcast


of a Disaster and Emergency Committee appeal tonight is intended


to provide a practical vehicle for that sympathy. ?10 million of


taxpayers' money has already been committed and more will follow. The


actions are based on the sense that there, but for the grace of God goes


any of us. Yet the idea of a common human bond seems to be tempered by


precisely which set of human beings are afflicted. Jim Reed reports.


This is a photo of my family. I am trying to get in contact with them.


My aunties, this is my mum. Thousands of miles away from the


devastation and desperate for news. There is a huge relief underway in


South East Asia, this group of second generation British Filipinos


get together in North London. I haven't been able to contact them


directly. Maybe the lines are down anyway. They can't pick up or the


batteries are not charged. Tor tens of thousands, in the UK, with


relation in the area affected by Typhoon Haiyan, the last few days


have been full of engaged tones and unanswered Facebook messages. People


over here feel helpless. For one, we can't get in touch with a lot of our


relatives. There isn't enough information coming out from certain


areas. There is a big focal point on one particular area which badly


needs help, but there is so many other areas that are suffering.


More pictures showing the scale of the destruction emerged today.


Helicopter footage shows houses flattened and roads unpassable.


Thousands are still without food, water or shelter. There have been


reports of looting and violence in some areas. Please, if we could have


for our people, because some of them are dying, they are hungry. We need


the help and assistance of some kind hearted people.


But the death toll from one of the strongest storms ever to make land


has been revised down. Early talk of 10,000 casualties was too high said


the president of the Philippines this evening. The final figure is


still likely to be around 2,500 with more than 500,000 more displaced.


These people desperately need your help, that's why the DEC... Here in


the UK, a group of 14 charities launched their appeal to help the


victims. The likes of Oxfam and Action Aid pooled resources at a


time like this, rather than try to compete for airspace and funds with


each other. In all of what we do, we should ensure dignity for the people


we are there to serve. Its working with people. What's amazing in these


emergencies I have found over the past 20 years is that we see these


dreadful pictures on the news, but actually, you know, people are


working together, communities come together. They care for each other


and there is lots of capacity in place that we need to do better at


working alongside to ensure lives are saved and to ensure recovery


takes place. The UN has already released ?15


million worth of aid and has appealed for ?190 million worth of


assistance, but this cash is for emergency help, tents, food and


clean water, not to fund any long-term recovery plan. The Boxing


Day tsunami of 2004 generated over ?1 billion worth of aid spending,


but a later report backed by Bill Clinton said it took too long for


money to reach some areas and often the cash was wasted. The public are


keen to see results as quickly as possible. They are concerned about


the images that they are seeing, you know, people suffering and so there


is a testimony passion to give them shelter solutions as quickly as


possible in terms of tents, flat-pack houses, however, these are


often not appropriate for the context that they are in. They may


not be, you know, earthquake-resistant or hurricane


resistant or suitable for tropical zones or whatever they are in.


Across the other side of London, any talk of reconstruction means little


at the moment. This woman has been working in the UK while her children


grow up in the Philippines. She heard nothing from them since the


storm hit on Friday. As a mother, it is really heartbreaking to see all


the pictures and videos and I could picture, and I have been questioning


what about my children? What is the real condition of my children? We


might now understand the scale of the disaster in the Philippines, but


many of the stories of individuals and families have yet to be told.


Well, Owen Barder used to advise Tony Blair on aid and now works at


the Centre for Global Development. Ian Birrell is a contributing editor


for the Daily Mail. Are you impressed by the reaction to this


disaster? Yes, I think it shows the best of humanitarian that --


humanity, we want to give, we the want to help. The fact that people


are willing to of reach into their pockets and help people on the other


side of the world is impressive. Are you impressed by the mechanism?


I this I we need to do it better. We have had the lessons of the tsunami


in 2004. We have had the lessons of Haiti. We have not learned the


lessons that we have to do it quickly. But it does reach them and


it does help them. What do you make of it? The mantra


of the aid industry is that we can do it better next time and that's


always what they have been saying and they have been saying it for 50


years. Maybe they are getting better? You look at what happened in


Haiti and it was a terrible what happened, where the wishes of local


people were ignored and there were meetings being held, there were so


many people involved in the aid industry, because it is not Britain,


but it is every western country and the developing world. You get


hundreds and hundreds of groups forking in and causing chaos on the


ground. Well, what are you suggesting? The suggestion first of


all not for these, a lot of these groups are basically corporate


interests dressed up as Mother Teresa and they need to stop


thinking about their raising money and start thinking about what they


want to do a listen to people on the ground. In Haiti, there were


meetings being held without anyone there from Haiti and 0. 6% of the


money went to interests from Haiti, whereas 40 % was spent on those


supplying the aid living in expensive flats and buying expensive


cars. I know from friends that it is a


contest, who is going to get there, who is going to get the headlines on


the television, who is going to get the money? Ian, says we don't make


improvements, but I was in Ethiopia in the 1980s and I was there in 2009


and 2010 when there was another drought and the big difference in


2009 and 2010, you didn't see people going to relief centres to get fed.


Why? Because there was a safety net in place that enabled Ethiopians to


receive food and money in their villages and in their towns, in the


face of a failed rains. That's the kind of progress that's made when a


country is able to put in place its Steplts ch systems to enable its


people to stay where they are rather than to have this disaster. Things


get better and we have had the most remarkable progress a across the


developing world. One of the things that should happen in this situation


is aid agencies, both the international organisations and the


NGOs should be more transparent about what they are doing. So that


everybody can plan and know where it is that the needs are greatest.


Something like the DEC is co-ordination of aid effort, isn't


it? That's a co-ordination of raising the money, but the crucial


thing and we didn't see this in Haiti and we need to see it in the


Philippines is the money as it gets spent is spent in a way that


everybody can see who is doing what because that's the only way that


people will be able to work out on the ground where they can contribute


and in the 21st century it doesn't make sense that we don't know how


the aid is spent. Have you any thought about the


different ways we react to different disasters? Well, clearly, there is


huge sympathy for something like this which is strong on television,


if you look in the Central African Republic now and there are 400,000


displaced people. There is a huge difference in how they approach it.


The aid caravan moves on from one disaster to the other. If you look


in Haiti, $9 billion was spent on a country of ten billion people and at


the la end of -- and at the end of last year while the Red Cross had


?300 million, that was twice what was spent on permanent housing and


400,000 people were still in tents. It is obscene and my stomach turned


when I saw the activities and some of the things that people were


saying while the Haitians were frozen out of any decision making


and having their lives ruined again. It is no coincidence the mayor


called it the second earthquake and the second earthquake was the


arrival of thousands of these aid agencies trying to raise money.


You seem to be agreeing with him? If I was struck by a typhoon, I would


want somebody to come and help me, to give me food, water and shelter


and that's what people are doing and the idea that aid workers are there


because they think it is glamorous when they are working around the


clock in terrible conditions to help fellow human beings, that's obscene.


Yes, we can do it better and I want to see the aid system work better


and I am agreeing there are problems, but the idea that means


the whole exercise should be disregarded as a caravan of people


doing it in their own interests, that's cynicism. Thank you very


much. There are unmistakeable signs that


the NHS is gearing up for a crisis this winter. Downing Street has let


it be known that the Prime Minister is getting personally involved in


preparations. Like the leaves turning, warnings of a looming


calamity in accident and emergency departments come round most autumns.


But this year they are being taken more seriously than usual as the NHS


awaits tomorrow's publication of the inquiry into how to improve A


departments. Zoe Conway reports. Britain's politicians just can't


keep their hands off the leavers when it comes to the NHS.


And now the Prime Minister has decide to step in to be the A


enforcer so he can avert a winter health crisis The NHS is meant to be


largely independent of Government, but there is nothing like the threat


of a winter crisis to push a politician's buttons. The number of


people going to A departments has risen historically not least because


of an ageing population, one million more people are coming through the


doors than in 2010. Winter further challenges the system which is why


we are supporting the most under pressure A with an additional


?250 million, planning has started earlier than ever before this year.


There are new reports today of 12,000 patients spending 12 hours or


more on trolleys in A A is in crisis accord ing to the College of


Emergency Medicine and this is before the winter started. People


are asking where is the Government and what is it doing about it? So


far all they have heard is crisis, what crisis?


Andy Burnham is not the only one accusing the Government of


complacency. Over the past few years, we have seen a huge reduction


in the number of nursing staff at a time when workload is at record


levels. What we have here is a system that is not got itself geared


up to cope with what is inevitable that winter will come and unless we


are very, very lucky, there will be that surge and I am saddened to say


the planning in too many areas has not been good enough.


The latest figures on the amount of time people spend waiting on


hospital trolleys are hardly reassuring. There were over 87,000


trolley waits of between four and 12 hours between April and October this


year. Up from 47,000 two years ago. The Health Minister cuts the first


turf a new ?187,000 centre. The NHS has always been the most


politicised of public services. Its founder said that if a bed pan


dropped on a hospital corridor, its noise should resound in the Palace


of Westminster. Never mind so-called bed-blocking, wards are regularly


clogged up by Prime Ministers desperate to roll up their sleeves


and get their hands clean. But some say be warned. David Cameron might


pull leavers, but they won't necessarily be attached to anything.


The funny thing about this debate, the NHS is made up, if you look at


it, of autonomous institutions by are hospitals and foundation trusts


and what goes on in the hospitals is not actually very closely affected


by politicians or policy, but you get this theatre every time there is


worries over the NHS and how it will cope with the winterment


There are concerns the last thing A need now is Whitehall meddling.


It is really puzzling. We have seen the largest piece of legislation


about the NHS in its history, entirely designed to take


politicians out of the day-to-day running of the NHS and the rational


behind that reasonably was that when you have the politicians entirely


focussing in this war room way on what's going on, all the energy in


the system looks up to try and keep the levels above them happy when


they actually should be spending their energy looking at the service


and how to improve it and how to redesign it.


Tom, the medical director of the information is expected to recommend


a radical overhaul of the way A are run. Today, there was this hint


from Jeremy Hunt. Yes, there are difficult decisions, but they are


decisions that his Government ducked and left the public exposed as a


result. Some are already wondering whether


difficult decisions could be political speak for A closures?


Well, Cliff Mann is President of the College of Emergency Medicine which


has warned that this year could see the worst ever winter in the NHS.


You say that every year, don't you? We haven't been asked most years. We


have been asked this year and we have been warning. The Department of


Health says the NHS has never been in better shape to cope with the


winter coming? I think that most of the things that people say are true,


the problem is, it is not the whole truth. We get little soundbites of


information here and there, and we are not taking the whole picture. So


you take politicians from one side of the fence and what they say is


true, if you take politicians from the other side of the House, but


what they say is also true, but it is not the whole picture and the NHS


is a complex struck steward and -- structure.


Is it not the case that an extra what is it ?500 billion is being


spent on A over the next two years? Well, ?250 million this year


of which only a small proportion is going to A and even then only to


the 50 worst performling trusts -- performing trusts which leaves 150


trusts can no money this year. How much more money do you think you


need or is it a bottomless pit? We don't need any more money. We are


spending a lot of money, the ?250 million for this winner, last --


winter, last year we spend over ?100 million for locums so that's ?350


million, but we spend it on short-term fixes instead of sorting


out the problem. You -- you and your colleagues spent


a long time telling politicians to butt out of management of the NHS


and they do so and you make a pig's ear of it? We have never suggested


that politicians should butt out. We wanted a streamlined bureaucracy


within the NHS and that's what we haven't got.


Politician are having to wade in to bail you out at of the mess you find


yourselves in by your own account? Yes, this is the mess not of our own


making. The problems in the emergency departments up and down


the country are a mismatch between the numbers of patients attending


our departments and the numbers of staff we have to deal with that.


Whose fault is that? There has been a lack of medium and long-term


planning and no recognition if you remove credible alternatives to


out-of-hours care, the only place for people to attend is their local


accident and emergency departments and that's why numbers are rising.


And whose fault is that? That's a fault of a series of Government


decisions and decisions made by other bodies as your reporter said


which means that there has been a lack of clarity as to what those


out-of-hours services are. Are you reassured the Prime Minister


is taking personal charge of sorting things out this winter? Well, I am


always pleased to hear that senior Cabinet Ministers and the Prime


Minister himself wants to take an interest in this. I feel for a long


time the college has been trying to get our point across and for the


first base really, was to get people to hear what we're saying. Now they


are hearing what we are saying, hopefully we can move to the next


point which is where we need to take decisive action.


Thanks. There are some people who seem to


think that the way you reduce the cost of living in this country is


for the state to spend more and more taxpayers' money. They're wrong.


That was the gist of the Prime Minister's message in telling us we


have to get used to a permanently smaller state. Infuriated trades


unionists take this as evidence that David Cameron and his coterie have


no understanding of how tight things are for ordinary people. But it


prompted our political editor, Allegra Stratton, who has just about


to take off on maternity leave, to take a look at what we can make out


of Cameron's changing view on the state.


The State is being shrunk. A ?20 billion shrinkage here and more cuts


there. By the end of this pamplt and the middle of next spending on


public services will be down to less than a quarter of total UK GDP, all


reluctantly down the mroim once told us. I didn't come into politics to


make suts. Neither -- cutsment neither did Nick Clegg. Then this,


last night. We have cut the deficit by a third. That doesn't mean taking


difficult decisions on public spending. It also means something


more profound. It means building a leaner, more efficient State. We


need to do more with less. Not just now, but permanently.


The difficulty for the Conservatives is that while the public appear to


accept a shrinkage in the size of the deficit, in most polling, they


are less keen on shrunken public services, for this reason, Tories


are warned against bashing of the State, it puts swing voters off.


Efforts to shrink the State continued. Before the last general


election, the shen Shadow Chancellor announced -- the then Shadow


Chancellor announced many billions of pounds of spending cuts. One


biographer recounts that he turned to an aide and said, "Well, let's


see if this costs us the general election." The Tories know there is


scepticism about any plan to shrink the State and big public spending


cuts and for that reason, they have been sheepishly about them. When I


woke up and heard the BBC was reporting that you can make public


services better, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. What


changed? They think spending restraint. Michael Gove cut head


count at the Department of Education. 23,000 admin posts were


cut from the NHS, he said, but 5,000 doctors were taken on.


But another factor is growing, the economy is recovering, but Labour's


poll lead over the Conservatives is holding up, Tories think they have


to make voters believe that a Labour Government would scale back up


spending in public services, that it would mean a bigger State. The Prime


Minister hopes to focus voters' minds on the reality of letting


Labour back into power. He hopes that by talking about a leaner


State, he is capitalising on voter concern about runaway public


finances and also making Labour look provlogate in comparison. If the PM


continues with austerity, fresh areas must be cut in areas


untouched. So David Cameron is a tireless roller back of the State's


frontier, but not every mile of it and not this side of the election.


Of our most distinguished composers died today. Sir John Tavener was 69,


a deeply religious man who had been plagued by ill-health for much of


his life. The pain, he said this summer, had made him terribly


grateful for every moment he had left. Let's hear a little of his


work. How big a loss do you think he is?


It is a considerable loss because he forged a very individual voice. He


is rather like the English, he spoke to a huge number of people. He


started off as an avant-garde composer and wrote pieces like The


Whale. Celtic Requiem, these pieces were at the forefront of the


avant-garde and then he retreated into a spir spiritual world and


found a kind of language, that was sense uous and med tative and it


appealed to a need in people, in society, for something that was


spiritual which allowed people to look inside themselves and see their


place in a wider world. What was he like? You had the thrill


of having him compose pieces for you, but you performed for him? What


was that relationship like? Well, it was very intense because after I did


his opera Mary of Egypt, he started to write a lot of pieces for soprano


voice. The pieces he wrote for me, they got more and more complex and


difficult, but they always seemed to fit my voice and he had a very


particular sound in his mind so working together to achieve that was


quite difficult. But I think I managed to... Was he intimidating?


Sometimes, yes. He really pushed the voice, I think, even with his core


of music to the extremes. I never sang as I have sung in his music and


I have never sung as high, but another piece went as high. I sang


in the Albert Hall where I had to start on a D. It was up in the Gods


and the orchestra were down there and I had to hit this note and hold


it for several bars. But he was also, you know, very human. He had a


great sense of humour and working with him was quite, you know, good


fun. You are agreeing? Absolutely.


Although John had a manistic side he liked the finer things, fine food


and when he was younger, girls. He wasn't part of that Beatles set for


nothing. He had a wonderful white suit. He was so tall and he had this


congenital heart problem which killed him. Together with the white


suit and the white scar of, there was a white Rolls-Royce and he cut a


wonderful figure. You had this naughty boy about town, which I


rather liked. What was his relationship with the establishment


like, the musical establishment? I think they found him hard to accept


for a while because, you know, when people actually strike a chord, you


know, write the song that was done at Princess Diana's funeral, critics


and establishment look esconse, and his music speaks to millions of


people. He did a vigil which people sat through entranced. He had that


ability to take people on a journey. Did you have any sense of why he


struck this chord? What it was about his music or his presence coming


through his music? Do you know, I think he really connected with the


spiritual and he took risks to achieve that. I mean he actually


explored not just western music, he, when I first met him, he played


Indian classical music to me, and he loved Indian music. He tried to get


programme organisers to enlist this piece you mentioned which was seven


hours long. He with started at 10pm and finished with the dawn and


that's a very Indian idea... It is a happening. Exactly. It really is. He


drew instruments from China, from India, most people said it is


inconvenient, but actually, it brought another dimension in. Even


Middle Eastern elements. Not everything was a masterpiece, but a


lot of it was really wonderful Thank you very much.


It looks as if Ireland is about to become the first country in the


eurozone to emerge from the bail out programmes set up when the currency


went into spasm a few years ago. That moved the Celtic Tiger off the


list of endangered species and into the category of the extinct. But the


Irish, unlike some other parts of the eurozone took the medicine


prescribed and now it seems their economy is judged to be well


recovering. But the picture is almost as confused as the metaphors


with hordes of young people still driven to seek their fortunes


abroad. Joe Lynam brought his shovel over to Britain years ago. There


were kids around Ireland sent to school with kes ketchup sandwiches.


I just feel we exist as a family from month to month. Ireland will


emerge as a much more stable, much more realistic place. How many


people here intend to emigrate in the next two or three years?


The Irish economy collapsed five years ago, when a giant property


bubble burst taking the banking system with it. Because Ireland was


locked into the euro, it couldn't relieve pressure by devaluing its


currency, a bail out from the EU and IMF ensued and so too did tough


austerity. Ireland is forecast to grow by over


1% this year, the fact that it is growing at all is thanks in large


part to the tech sector. Welcome to Dublin.


The capital of Ireland. Welcome to Ireland. The new capital


of the digital world. APPLAUSE


Tech, whilst employing 8% or 9% of the workforce accounts for 40% of


its exports. Tech giants like Facebook, Google


and scwap twitter have their European offices in Ireland. Here


for for tax breaks and talent. Emigration is the stain which


Ireland simply cannot wash off. Whereas before, it was the


uneducated who left for the US, Canada or the UK.


Now, 1,000 well educated, mostly young people are taking their


talents overseas every week. Just when they are needed most at home.


Robert Burn is a psychology under graduate at UCD, he wants to work in


hospitals, but the public sector is slimming down and had pay cuts of a


fifth across-the-board. So Robert is job hunting in Australia and New


Zealand. I grew up in an environment where everybody was praising the


economy and everyone thought the Irish economy was the best thing


ever, but we have seen it is not sustain bible and it is really


affecting the youth. So personally, it is upsetting to feel that I have


to leave the country and leave behind my family and friends.


Newsnight arranged for 60 students to come together for a he debate


about emigration and their future. We are here to find out what


motivates people, whether it is getting some experience and coming


back or the fact there are no opportunities here in Ireland?


People have lost family members through suicide because of financial


pressure. There is kids around Ireland who have been sent to school


with ketchup sandwiches. We are here, we are safe enough, protected


enough, but there is people and families in this country without


hope. Do you feel the anger that some young under graduates may feel,


their prospects are withering in front of them? No. I don't feel it


and I haven't observed it and I think if you are an under graduate


with no plan and no specific goal in mind, it is very easy to become


disillusioned and upset about the future. We have employers contacted,


I have employers contacting me every day. Who laughed at that prospect?


People under 25 are earning 25% less. People who are two or three


years older are earning 17% more in the same role as people who are


under 25 year. Despite the seeming pessimism, they


are positive about the future. I want a show hands, no one is allowed


to abstain. Who is optimistic? Whatever the evidence is, Irish


people always feel that things could be worse and you find people in


Ireland will tell you that at least we are not Greece. And they will


feel it is about to get better. Unlike the Greeks or Spanish, the


Irish didn't vent their anger on the streets, so what does that say about


their character and have they changed since the crisis. One famous


Irish boxer thinks so. I think it has create more care in the


community. More cohesiveness within society in general. People are


helping out more often. There is more charity in what people do and


the way they help each other and I think it made us better.


Maybe taking it on the chin, we have had a lot of hard times, a lot of


people of my age and younger had to emigrate and go abroad and find work


and life abroad and probably won't come home at all maybe and you know,


that's hard from a friend's point of view and from a family point of


view. The word is Ireland's demise and


potential rise, better illustrated than its property market. House


prices crashed by almost 60% when the crisis struck, but have started


rising again in Dublin and the main cities.


How much would this place typically sell for? OK, at the moment, this


would sell between 525,000 and 550,000. The same house 12 months


ago was probably more around the 450,000 mark.


70,000 or 8le 0,000 drop in the space of 12 months? Absolutely.


Whoever buys this house will have a smaller mortgage than those who


bought in the five or so years before the crash in 2008. They


include Mandy Freeman, a theatre nurse earning 36,000 per annum, but


describes herself as one of Ireland's working poor. Her income


has been slashed by a quarter. There is a deficit in the pay packet every


month. We have had to cut our health insurance. We don't have family


holidays anymore and we have had to cut a lot of corners in relation to


shopping and utility bills and outgoings. I feel we exist as a


family from month to month. Mandy was typical of many who


believed the boom would never end so badly. One prominent Irish


businessman feels that the Irish knew they would have to atone.


Somewhere deep down there in the Catholic mentality was an


understanding that actually, we will have to pay for this. People were


being driven by, you know, a quick buck, the opportunity to make money,


the pushing of things. There was a sense that something was lost and


you had this huge influx of people from outside who did most of the


work. There was a kind of almost a laziness that crept into Irish


society. Ireland still has 13% unemployment


and one of the highest levels of personal and Government debt in


Europe, but GDP and job creation is up and confidence that it is nudging


higher. Ireland was the model pupil who took its punishment stowically.


Well John Bruton is a former Irish Prime Minister. Ann Pettifor is


director of Policy Research in macro economics. , what is the lesson? We


have formed a direct investment sector, you menning mentioned


pharmaceuticals, and financial services and also we have made this


a country where it is easy to set-up a new business, the bureaucracy


involved in establishing a new business is small and that has


encouraged a lot of Irish people to set-up businesses, spinning off from


the hi-tech sector and has enabled us to be in a situation now where


our services exports exceed our goods exports. So we are a dynamic


economy and we are also an open economy in contrast to say Greece,


Portugal or Spain where they basically trade within their own


nation. We export and import much more which means that... Sorry to


cut across you there. It is a very a mixed picture when you see a lot of


young people emigrating, a lot of people had to take serious cuts in


their living standards, and worry about making ends meet and yet,


according to the IMF and the European Central Bank, this is an


economy that's resurgent? I heard Joe Lynam say that as well. There


has been an uptake in the quarterly numbers on GDP, the European


Commission says the economy continues to contract. We have high


levels of unemployment. We have incomes falling. We have households


with 200% of their debt to disposable income and we have a


country that's effectively evicting a generation of its people, 1,000


people a week and it is a tax haven. So I mean I really think that the


talk... You wouldn't think the two of you are talking about the same


country? There is a lot of spin going on about Ireland. The economy


has not been restructured, not a lot has changed since the crisis. John


Bruton? I would like Ann to no he at the height of the crisis, we were


losing jobs. The number employed was doing reduced by 8,000 a month. We


are adding jobs at a rate of 3,000 a month and that's changed completely.


Ireland is not a tax haven. Ireland made a decision to have a low


corporate tax rate, but that's a transparent system of taxation with


no special deals for individual companies like you see in certain


Continental European countries. Of course, we have a problem with


personal debt. That's how we got into the difficulty we are in, but


where the level of personal debt is being reduced and the Government has


on every occasion met the fiscal targets for dealing with its


financial problems. One of the reasons why Ireland is having


trouble accessing the ESM is that Ireland's European partners are


really angry about the corporate tax levels, about the fact that they are


effectively subsidising Ireland. This is another argument altogether?


No, we are being lent money by our European partners upon which we are


paying interest. That's not a subsidy. That's a deliberate


decision by our European partners that they want to keep the European


single currency together, they don't want Europe going down the route of


devaluation and inflation of the kind we had in the 70s and # 0s --


80s, they are building a single currency and that solidarity is


being shown to Ireland and we appreciate it and hopefully in due


time we will be able to reciprocate it? By under cutting her partners in


tax terms, this is causing quite a lot of anger not just in Europe, but


also in the United States? No. Ireland had this tax rate... I am


going to have to cut you off because we don't have anymore time for this


discussion. I am sorry. Thank you.


Now a rare encounter with genius. The shy chanteuse Lady Gaga is


coming back from a debilitating illness with a new album. At a


characteristically modest launch event in which she was transported


by flying frock. She told the world that her latest work is not really


about me at all, not about money and mass production, but about moving


the world away from a place of vanity and ego. This Mahatma-like


ambition was irresistible to Miranda Sawyer of the Culture Show.


Gaga. We can back. Thank you forking having me. You had an enforceted


absence between the last album and this one due to illness. How were


you as a patient? And how is it to be back? Well, I guess I was a good


patient because I was so excited to rejuvenate my body. It was exciting


in a way. You feel like an infant, but in another way, I felt dead all


the time because I couldn't be on stage so I guess I just really took


to enjoying and appreciationing the parts of what I do, that are life is


art all the time as a way too make it through that sort of torture I


was feeling. I think it was good for me because this stage is, you know,


it is a place that I started to rely on, I think, very much and the fans


and that interconnection and when it went away, I had to find a more


spiritual connection with music and art and I am sort am on that journey


path now. When you this I of how you present


yourself on stage. If you think about a lot of pop artists and


female artists who are presented in a straightforwardly sexual way. They


have to be really good looking and presented as though the first thing


you are going to react to is do you fancy them. You don't do that,


sometimes you do and sometimes you don't. How do you regard your body


then within that context? Well, I would say that in pop music, in that


particular sphere that there is one dimensional quality to sexuality. I


think the difference between what I do and that, if I can maybe start


there, is there is an intention always behind the sexuality if the


sexuality is there, but most of the time I don't particularly find


myself to be very sexy actually and in the beginning of my career, I


think that some of this exploration of covering myself up and


transforming into other icons and other states of life was a sense of


sexual freedom for me because I felt numb by my experiences and I wanted


to escape things. You use sex on this album in quite, in an


interesting way. There is lots of different aspects to it, but often


it is used as a way into love, it seems? The sex is hopefully going to


lead on to something that will touch you a little more. Would you say


that's right? Yes, I would say that's right, but I don't create


with the intention of the finale, if that makes any sense? I don't always


know what is going to come out of it. So it is really beautiful for me


to hear your reading of my experience with sex and love at this


time because my earlier experiences with sex were quite perverted and


scary, terrifying, fear. I don't know, it reminds me of these things


we are sitting around. Yeah, they are quite spooky, aren't


they? It was a little bit terrifying for me so now I have really great


sex. Which is good k, I'm glad to hear it. It is a natural change.


When you are talking about your reaction to your fans, your


relationship seems to be particularly intense. It is. What do


you get from them? Not just when you are performing, but when you see


them outside the hotel, when they talk to you? Well, I choose to


receive their love and because of that, it has become very intimate


over the years. I think that you know maybe in your suggestion that


my relationship with my fans is different than some other pop


artists, I think some of it is because there is a separation


between them and the work for some people. That what I'm doing here and


what is happening here are two different things. But because I've


studied since I was 11 years old, I have a sense of, I have a sense. So


because of that I am aware of their energy all the time and I receive


it, so I need it for my work. I can't survive as what I have become


without them. I didn't mean to interrupt then, sorry. I didn't mean


to talk for so long! These things happen, you know, you have got a lot


to say. Do I? I might sound total sheet and your ratings will go down


and you will wonder why you put me on this show.


You can see more of that interview on a Culture Show special.


Until then, sleep well.


Download Subtitles