04/02/2014 Newsnight


04/02/2014

With Jeremy Paxman. Simon Heffer reports on declining membership of the Conservative party, and Ghanaian afrobeat star Fuse ODG talks about his music and performs in the studio.


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Transcript


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Tonight, why is the membership of the Conservative Party falling

:00:09.:00:14.

through the floor, and without adequate members, does it make the

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next election unwinnable on the doorsteps? I think the Conservative

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Party are out on their own for the better off but not the poorer. When

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a right-wing commentator like Simon Heffer looks at the state of the

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party, he needs a stiff drink. A few Tory MPs agree. I think there has

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long been a disconnect between Central Office and the voluntary

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parties. I'm not sure Central Office holds the opinions of the voluntary

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party in the highest regard. If only I could make this message go viral.

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After Scarlett Johansson discovers you can't have it all and chooses

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Sodatream over Oxfam, we talk to the man who pays the piper and to the

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charity which got the boot. Oot. Facebook turns ten, will the first

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ten be much like the first. Fewer and fewer people seem

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interested in politics, as Russell Brand has already told us. They are

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all the same is the repeated complaint, the difficulty is no

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political party can have that belief gain ground because the whole point

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of elections, and there will be one next year, is they are built on a

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choice. Everybody party has a problem with membership, but the

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Conservatives, who could once muster an enormous army of individual

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members have a particular problem. Membership has almost halved, for

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example, since David Cameron became leader. Heffer, a long -- Simon

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Heffer a long time observer and reporter explains. This report

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contains flash photography. # I'm walking

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# Yes indeed # I'm talking

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# I'm hoping It is still 15 months away from the

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next general election, but already Halifax candidate Phil and his team

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are pounding the doorstep, trying to persuade people to vote blue when

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the time comes. The Conservatives nationally are pursuing what they

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call a 40-40 strategy, to hold their 40 most marginal seats and to win a

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further 40 from other parties. Halifax is 18th on the target list.

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But even here the party no longer has an office in the constituency,

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which makes it tough for candidates such as Phil. What condition is your

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association in Halifax, how big is your membership? The membership is

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not huge. The membership pretty much mirrors from what I can see across

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West Yorkshire and beyond. But what we do have is a dedicated team of

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activists. But it is a compact team and in an ideal world everybody

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could do with another 20 canvassers. One of the things the Conservative

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Party has to look at is making it more attractive to be a party

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member. This was Mrs Thatcher's first campaign sortie into the

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north. The seat was last won by the Conservatives at the 1983 election,

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in the landslide that followed an unapologetic campaign by Margaret

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Thatcher. A shopkeeper's daughter from the East Midlands, who didn't

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believe working-class areas were off limits. David Cameron's appeal to

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the same constituency has been less instinctive. He promised to

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rebalance the economy, to cause a recovery for all, north and south.

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But he has struggled to shake off the "posh boy" image of Eton and the

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Bullingdon club and to relate more naturally to working-class people.

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What goes into it, OK oregano? No. Some Halifax voters seem to regard

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the Conservative leadership as if from another planet. David Cameron

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says the country is having an economic recovery and it is not just

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in the south-east of England, have you seen much evidence of this

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recovery in Halifax? No. Have things got better over the last four or

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five years here? No, I think the Conservative Party are out for their

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own, for the better off, but not for the poorer, not for the poor

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families. There is people in Halifax the kids are starving, there is food

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banks, there has never been food banks before. Is there anything that

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would make you Conservative? At the moment I'm anti-voting full stop.

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However some people are much more willing to engage with the political

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process. What is your issue Sir? It is the amount of dog excrement. In

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the end Phil's hard work pays off. Do we have your support at all? I

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have always voted Conservative. That will do for me, thank you very much.

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The stories really ought to win Halifax if they are to form a

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majority Government, they will have to hold seats where they are

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vulnerable, such as Thurrock, where Jacky Doyle Price has a majority of

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just 92. We caught up with her in her Thames side constituency, while

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she was meeting the port of London authority. One issue in particular

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has caused her problems. The issue with same-sex marriage is it upset a

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lot of traditional voters, so lots of Conservatives were very unhappy

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about it. Ultimately, you know, we're elected, we have to do the

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right thing, in the end I voted against the third reading. Even

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though she's out pounding the pavements every weekend, Jackie

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feels handicapped because the uniformity of today's politicians

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leaves the electorate with little apparent choice. If you go back to

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1980s, when I was becoming politically aware, politics was

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exciting, it was about ideas, you know. There was a distinct

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difference between the approach of Michael Foot and Margaret Thatcher.

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We need ideas for them to get excited about. In some respects this

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is where UKIP have found some success. If there is one thing the

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Brits will get excited about is Europe, we all hate it. So they have

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got a very rich place to attract people. Meanwhile, elsewhere in

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Thurrock UKIP are plotting Jacky's downfall. . This This champion darts

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player is UKIP's representative in Thurrock. He thinks he will score a

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bullseye here. I'm sure you have been involved in political

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espionage, what does your intelligence tell us about the state

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of the Conservative Party here? It has been in decline for many years.

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They got rid of their ward associations in the last decade.

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They can't fight elections without calling in help from other branches,

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other regions. We now have teams out regularly every weekend. We can

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outman them. We are getting people out to vote who when faced with

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Liberty-Lal-Con, they think they will stay in and watch the pub and

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off to the pub. Now they think they can change the country. The

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Conservatives used to be a mass movement party. When Winston

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Churchill was leader they had two. Eight million members. In 2005 when

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David Cameron became leader it had fallen to 250,000 members. In 2013

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lax year, it -- last year, it had lapsed to 134,000. I get the

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impression that the people who run the Conservative Party don't seem to

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find very much that there has been such a decline in the mass

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membership? I think there has long been a disconnect between Central

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Office and the voluntary parties. I'm not sure Central Office holds

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the opinions of the voluntary party in the highest regard, I think this

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is a pity. I think the voluntary party is the essence of

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Conservatism. That we are a party that is built up from the localities

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rather than top down. I'm interested you talk about the disconnect, we

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have seen in the last two days two Tory MPs deselected, Anne Mackintosh

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and Tim Yeo, it seems where there is a vibrant association it is an

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association determined not to take orders from Central Office or the

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Prime Minister? I don't think it is helpful when the hierarchy

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interconvience in local selections. In my own case Central Office was

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very keen to stop me being selected. Actually I think every time they

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said not to have me my support locally went up. Jacob Rees-Mogg is

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right, the disconnect between the Tory leadership and their grassroots

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is profound. Moon while UKIP are deeply determined and fielding an

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expanding number of foot soldiers. The end of the Conservatives as a

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mass movement could sabotage the party's chances, not just of winning

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its target seats, but holding some it already has. By ignoring the

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importance of their activists they could be making a fatal error. With

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us now to discuss all of this is the very Simon Heffer you saw there, and

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the former Chief Whip, Andrew Mitchell. You can't win the next

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election if this picture is replicated across the land? I think

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that the lack of boots on the ground, if you hike, is something

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which a-- if you like, is something that afflicts all political party.

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UKIP are pick up boots on the ground as shown in Simon's film. It is

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important to recognise that the nature of campaigning is changing

:10:24.:10:28.

quite a lot. For example the Conservative Party contact speaks to

:10:29.:10:31.

hundreds of thousands of people every week by e-mail. You know we

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have an enormous database of people who we contact. You have team 2015

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which is designed to deal with the marginal seats, already got 4,000

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people signed up to it. There is a broader way of campaigning too. What

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do you make of the argument that you can remedy the shortfall in active

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members, digitally. I have yet to find an internet website that will

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drive an old lady to a polling station. Jacob Rees-Mogg didn't say

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on camera but he told me off camera because he didn't have time, he

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talked to a professor of sociology who had taken a survey of people who

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had been asked on the doorstep to go and vote. Not for any particular

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party, but to go and vote. And in the wards where people were asked to

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go and vote to turn up was up by 7%. So it is clear, I think, by any

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academic studies that actually going on to a doorstep, knocking on a door

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and engaging with a voter gets them out to a polling station. That is

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very important, but the point you make about people driving elderly

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people to the polls, I mean that is one of the reason why there has been

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a tremendous number of postal vote, to stop people being inconvienced in

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that way, if they want to use the opportunity of the postal vote. I

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think the nature of campaigning has changed. I don't deny that banging

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on doors is essential, we all do it much of the time. But I think we

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need to recognise that the Conservative Party is in touch with

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probably more people than Churchill's Conservative Party was,

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in spite of the much bigger membership at that time. You would

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accept, Simon, it is not a normal thing to do to join a political

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party is it? Not any more, no. But people are joining UKIP, and in many

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of these target seats that the Conservatives have, and in many of

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the seats they have to hold, UKIP are a very important force, they are

:12:26.:12:31.

not necessarily the opposition, but they have the capacity to remove

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large chunk of people who voted Conservative in 2010, or who might

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be considering voting Conservative, and to UKIP they behave in a very

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traditional way, they have boots on the ground, people canvassing every

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weekend in place like Thurrock, knocking on doors, asking people to

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support them when the next election comes. That is what the Conservative

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Party is up against. That is what you are up begins. You have got to

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try to counter that very traditional thing, which people still like. They

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like the personal contact of a candidate on the doorstep. We

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certainly have a lot of work to do but in the end many people in UKIP

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are our cousins, we want them back. We need to persuade them that the

:13:09.:13:12.

way to get the referendum, in-out Reverend dumb in 2017 is to vote --

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referendum in 2017 is to vote Conservative. It is the only way to

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achieve T I'm pretty confident between now and the general election

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that point will register a lot with those flirting with UKIP at this

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time. If you want the referendum a Conservative vote will deliver it.

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You will have to end up in the same sort of mechanism that the Labour

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Party has got itself in to, different types of membership, you

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will have to start fudging things hike that won't you? We already have

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some different relation. You are already fudging! If you look at the

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figure, Simon's figure is not comparable with the figures for the

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Liberal Democrats and Labour. The comparable figure is something like

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174,000. And over recent weeks I gather from Central Office the

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figures haven't yet been audited. Over recent weeks and months we have

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seen our membership increase by several thousand. It is not static

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situation. It is still pretty rubbish in comparison with what it

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was. We have these alternative mechanisms, in terms of the number

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of people the Conservative Party is talking to, it is now probably more

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than it was in the time Simon was mentioned in Churchill's day. Are

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you persuaded? No I'm not. One reason we went to Halifax, although

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Phil was a very engaging candidate. We wanted to go to Morley and

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Outwood, that is Ed Balls's seat, it is the 11th most vulnerable seat for

:14:37.:14:40.

the Tories. The chairman agreed to speak to us, and at the last minute

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rang the producer and said they didn't want to do it between now and

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the election. From the inquiries I made there isn't really an

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association in that area. In the 11th most vulnerable seat you have

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got to try to win and the seat with Ed Balls in it, who is an enormous

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scalp for your party. If you haven't an organisation there, if you are

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not prepared to talk to the media about a your campaign there. 15

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months outside an election, that seems unconvincing about the nature

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of the campaign you hope to fight for that seat. . You saw Jackie

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there an outstanding candidate who will be re-elected I'm sure. It is a

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different part of the country? Team 2015 with the 4,000 members already,

:15:31.:15:34.

more people recruited all the time, will certainly be visiting Ed

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Balls's constituency, and will join what by then will be quite a big

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team of people who will be working there for the Conservative interest.

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This is your first outing since plebgate... On Newsnight. Very nice

:15:53.:15:58.

to have you. Slut ask David Cameron for a job back in the cabinet? No,

:15:59.:16:05.

not a question of it, those are his sorts of decisions. You were

:16:06.:16:09.

unfairly deprived of it? Yes I was, but I hope to play a role in winning

:16:10.:16:12.

the next election which we have been talking about. So you would like a

:16:13.:16:22.

job back in cabinet. I would like a job in front line politics. What has

:16:23.:16:26.

this whole fair done to your view of the police? I think it is important

:16:27.:16:29.

to recognise that the vast majority of police do a brilliant a brilliant

:16:30.:16:40.

job. We need to make sure there is reform in the police so everyone can

:16:41.:16:43.

have confidence. That is what the police want to see as well. I hope

:16:44.:16:47.

to play a modest part in ensuring that those reforms come into play.

:16:48.:16:51.

Not just to protect citizens but the reputation of the police. Quite hard

:16:52.:16:56.

to look at a policeman after your experience and wonder if he's going

:16:57.:17:00.

to tell the truth, isn't it? I know quite well the police in Sutton

:17:01.:17:06.

Coldfield, they do an excellent job. Those are the police I think about

:17:07.:17:11.

when I think about the police in our country.

:17:12.:17:17.

Coming up. # You move like the wind

:17:18.:17:21.

# The way you put it on the floor # I give you my ring

:17:22.:17:25.

# I want to give the round of applause

:17:26.:17:29.

# I like the way you rule. If you were watching last night you would

:17:30.:17:34.

have seen the bizarre tale of the UK Independence Party spokesman, who it

:17:35.:17:39.

seems spent some time as the ringleader of a kidnap gang in

:17:40.:17:43.

Pakistan. Today we have seen documents that show Mujeed Bhutto

:17:44.:17:47.

had an active role in the Conservative Party before joining

:17:48.:17:52.

UKIP. This is all about this man, Mujeed Bhutto, UKIP's Commonwealth

:17:53.:17:56.

spokesman for the last year or so. Making some high-profile appearances

:17:57.:18:03.

on national TV and radio. We were reporting back in 2005, using a

:18:04.:18:09.

slitly different -- slightly different name. He was convicted in

:18:10.:18:15.

terms of a complex kidnapping case involving a person in Pakistan and

:18:16.:18:20.

spent some time in jail. The focus was on UKIP yesterday now it has

:18:21.:18:24.

switched to the Conservatives. Two months after his release he had

:18:25.:18:29.

joined the Tories. The Conservative chairman was asked about his role in

:18:30.:18:36.

the party. Member of the Conservative Party in 2008, he paid

:18:37.:18:41.

one year, left and joined UKIP. I should just add, for completeness,

:18:42.:18:46.

he attempted to rejoin the party last week after having been the UKIP

:18:47.:18:50.

spokesman. Because he's a spokesman for another party we rejected that

:18:51.:18:55.

application. Have you managed to speak to Mr Bhutto? We spoke to him

:18:56.:18:59.

this afternoon. He's adamant he was active in the Conservative Party for

:19:00.:19:04.

much longer than a single year as Mr Shapps of suggesting there. We have

:19:05.:19:08.

seen this invitation he was sent to an event by the local Tory

:19:09.:19:11.

association in Leeds, after the 2010 election. So at least a year after

:19:12.:19:15.

Mr Shapps was suggesting he left the party. Then there was this slightly

:19:16.:19:19.

strange attempt to rejoin the Conservatives by Mr Bhutto earlier

:19:20.:19:23.

this year. Mr Shapps said they rejected that approach. Mr Bhutto

:19:24.:19:27.

said he has never been told he cannot join. He was sent this e-mail

:19:28.:19:32.

from a local deputy Party Chairman in Yorkshire. Saying, ":

:19:33.:19:43.

There is a real confusion about his role with the Tories. The

:19:44.:19:48.

Conservatives saying even if he was a member or activist he was never a

:19:49.:19:52.

spokesman or on TV representing the party, as he was with UKIP. That is

:19:53.:19:56.

the key difference they say here. Now the script might have been

:19:57.:20:00.

written by a satirist, a fizzy drink, a glamorous actress and

:20:01.:20:05.

highly charged political issue. Scarlett Johansson's attempt to

:20:06.:20:10.

reconcile her position as an ambassador of Oxfam, and truesering

:20:11.:20:17.

a lot of money from a company called Sodastream didn't take long, a girl

:20:18.:20:21.

has to eat. Hello American football fans with her appearance in a

:20:22.:20:26.

commercial for a company which manufacturerses in the occupied --

:20:27.:20:31.

manufactures in the occupied West Bank. Hollywood film star, Oxfam

:20:32.:20:38.

ambassador and Sodastream girl. This week the actress found you can't

:20:39.:20:43.

have it all. If only I could make this message go viral. She has

:20:44.:20:48.

certainly done that, but not in the way that Sodastream intended. You

:20:49.:20:58.

may remember it from 1980s Britain. But the bottles behind those dodgy

:20:59.:21:04.

haircuts are now made here, at a Jewish settlement, built on occupied

:21:05.:21:12.

territory outside Jerusalem. The factory employs Palestinians who

:21:13.:21:15.

work alongside Jewish settler colleagues. Many campaign groups

:21:16.:21:21.

want a ban on goods produced in reality settlements. Oxfam said the

:21:22.:21:29.

ad violated the Convention on Human rights, and pressed Johansson on it.

:21:30.:21:32.

She decided to hit with the drinks company, a less than happy ending to

:21:33.:21:41.

when Hollywood meets Palestine. With us is the director of policy

:21:42.:21:47.

for Oxfam. If these Palestinians are being well paid and being paid the

:21:48.:21:55.

same as their Israeli compatriots, or their colleagues. What's wrong?

:21:56.:21:59.

Our criticism is not of Sodastream's labour conditions. The issue is that

:22:00.:22:04.

factory doesn't belong to Israel or Sodastream, it belongs to the people

:22:05.:22:07.

who own that land who were thrown off that land in order that

:22:08.:22:11.

settlements could be built. This isn't about soda or celebrities, it

:22:12.:22:20.

is about settlements, the settlers impoverish the Palestinians. If I

:22:21.:22:23.

took your house and now I turned it into a hotel as a porter, that

:22:24.:22:27.

wouldn't be enough. Settlements hurt Palestinians. If this factory were

:22:28.:22:32.

inside Israel there would be no problem for you? Oxfam doesn't

:22:33.:22:36.

support a boycott against Israel, we have been clear about it. This

:22:37.:22:40.

factory and the settlements are not in Israel, that is the position of

:22:41.:22:44.

international law and the settlements hurt Palestinians. If it

:22:45.:22:49.

was inside pre-1967 borders, you wouldn't have a problem? We have

:22:50.:22:57.

never had an issue with Israel. What could Sodastream do to comply,

:22:58.:23:02.

to meet your objection? They could fulfil international law and not be

:23:03.:23:07.

in illegal settlements or someone else's territory. They have to shut

:23:08.:23:12.

the factory down? If you meet people who live outside and close to the

:23:13.:23:16.

settlements. They can't get permits for building and can be thrown out

:23:17.:23:21.

of their homes, 100 people had their homes taken away just last month.

:23:22.:23:25.

Settlements are hurting people across the West Bank. That is not

:23:26.:23:30.

Sodastream's business taking away people's homes? We are not here to

:23:31.:23:35.

criticise Sodastream but focus on the settlements. It is Sodastream

:23:36.:23:39.

that has brought this to a head, as you know, there is really nothing

:23:40.:23:43.

that Sodastream could do to meet your objections, bar shutting down

:23:44.:23:47.

the factory and locating somewhere else. They should not be in the

:23:48.:23:56.

settles, they are illegal -- settlements, they are illegal, they

:23:57.:23:59.

need to go, they hurt Palestinians, they impoverish them, they make it

:24:00.:24:03.

hard to get access to water, land and housing. It is damaging for the

:24:04.:24:07.

Palestinian people. I wonder if you have any qualms at all about what

:24:08.:24:11.

seems to some people about the bullying of Scarlett Johansson. I

:24:12.:24:16.

think Scarlett Johansson did excellent work for Oxfam. I have no

:24:17.:24:21.

criticism of Scarlett Johansson. Why couldn't she continue being an Oxfam

:24:22.:24:26.

representative and do her commercials for Sodastream? Scarlett

:24:27.:24:30.

Johansson resigned from only franc, we have made our -- Oxfam, we have

:24:31.:24:36.

made our position clear on the settlements, they hurt Palestinian

:24:37.:24:41.

people. To respond to that is the CEO of Sodastream, he's in Tel Aviv

:24:42.:24:51.

now. Can you hear me? I can. In how much did you pay Scarlett Johansson

:24:52.:24:56.

for this ad as matter of interest? It is not about money. And we don't

:24:57.:25:00.

disclose t commercial terms we have with her. I can tell you that her

:25:01.:25:04.

decision has not been financially motivated but rather

:25:05.:25:10.

humanitarian-driven. She truly cares about people and bringing peace to

:25:11.:25:16.

the region in the Middle East, and doing so within a two-state

:25:17.:25:18.

solution. How do you feel about being part of

:25:19.:25:26.

the occupation? Of territories seed from another country -- seized from

:25:27.:25:30.

another country? What I'm doing in Sodastream in the factory is

:25:31.:25:34.

occupying Palestinians side-by-side with Israelis, it is not a

:25:35.:25:38.

settlement it is a factory. In fact we are part of the Palestinian

:25:39.:25:41.

economy, and possibly part of the future, the seeds of the future

:25:42.:25:50.

Palestinian state. We are not financing the settlement economy. We

:25:51.:25:55.

are giving equal rise, benefits and opportunities to Palestinians, we

:25:56.:26:00.

are proud about what we are doing in this factory. You have taken a

:26:01.:26:04.

political position in choosing to operate this factory inside the

:26:05.:26:09.

Occupied Territories, you accept that at least? No I inherited this

:26:10.:26:15.

factory, it has been in there for 17 years, it is operating under the

:26:16.:26:17.

agreement of the Palestinians themselves. This is an inconvenient

:26:18.:26:21.

truth that many people forget. According to the Oslo accord of

:26:22.:26:26.

1993, the Palestinians themselves agreed that area C, and this factory

:26:27.:26:32.

is located in area C of the West Bank, will be operated under the

:26:33.:26:36.

Israely administration, until the final borders will be drawn. That is

:26:37.:26:41.

how we are operating. That is a God thing for the Palestinians who work

:26:42.:26:45.

for me, because we are paying them Israeli wage which, is four-times

:26:46.:26:54.

they would earn this in the Palestinian Authority, if they were

:26:55.:26:57.

lucky enough to get a job. Their unemployment is 40%. You have

:26:58.:27:02.

accepted Oxfam's position that you are operating an enterprise within

:27:03.:27:07.

the Occupied Territories? Of course we are operating in enterprise

:27:08.:27:12.

within the occupied fare threes. My -- territories. My dilemma is

:27:13.:27:19.

putting people into unemployment and poverty. We employ 500 people and

:27:20.:27:25.

each one feeds ten. Five #5,000 people have health insurance and

:27:26.:27:28.

food on the table because of us. It is cynical and ironic that Oxfam, a

:27:29.:27:34.

human rights organisation, whom I used to admire tremenduously are the

:27:35.:27:38.

ones telling me to throw these people into poverty and

:27:39.:27:44.

unemployment. It just, I can't understand how throwing 1300 people

:27:45.:27:47.

into unemployment will promote peace. The Oxfam gentleman is still

:27:48.:27:58.

here, can you explain it? You can't claim that the Palestinians

:27:59.:28:04.

settlements are there. 30% unemployment, that is the figure

:28:05.:28:09.

cited. Why is that? Is that because there are roadblocks every hour. Is

:28:10.:28:12.

it because it is impossible for a Palestinian to establish their own

:28:13.:28:15.

factory because they can't get permits in areas close to

:28:16.:28:22.

settlements. Talking about the Palestinian olive oil industry is

:28:23.:28:25.

collapsing because of the settlements. There may be many

:28:26.:28:30.

imponderable. We are talking about this one concern, this one factory,

:28:31.:28:35.

which as you have heard and well know employs Palestinians. You want

:28:36.:28:42.

to see them chucked out, do you? We want to see the land returned to

:28:43.:28:47.

those who threw them off the land. We want to see the return of the

:28:48.:28:52.

land. Would you like to see that factory seize to employ Palestinians

:28:53.:29:01.

or others? They could have an arrangement. What do you want? We

:29:02.:29:07.

want the settlements to end. You want a factory shut down? You can't

:29:08.:29:13.

operate factories and settlements and say the settlements are wrong.

:29:14.:29:19.

Do you want the factory shutdown or not? We don't want the settlements,

:29:20.:29:29.

they are illegal. Senator George Mitchell who brokered peace in

:29:30.:29:32.

Northern Ireland, you are aware of his work. He was commissioned by

:29:33.:29:35.

President Obama to broker peace in the Middle East, visited Sodastream

:29:36.:29:42.

and said we are a glimmer of co-operation between them. There is

:29:43.:29:46.

not a lot of light in this part of the world. You don't go back to

:29:47.:29:49.

darkness if you can celebrate the light. This francly is a dream for

:29:50.:29:54.

activists and politicians. Because we are proving that there can be

:29:55.:29:58.

peace in the Middle East. I invited the Oxfam folk, they can all come

:29:59.:30:06.

and see it before they shut it down. From the Prime Minister downwards,

:30:07.:30:09.

or upwards, depending on your point of view. One member of the country's

:30:10.:30:14.

officer class after another has condemned or been pious about the

:30:15.:30:18.

fact that much of the London tube system has been shut down by a

:30:19.:30:23.

48-hour strike, one scheduled for next week. We have lost the strike

:30:24.:30:27.

habit over recent years, but the action by the RMT union, let by a

:30:28.:30:32.

man photographed only days ago getting tanned on the beach in

:30:33.:30:38.

Brazil is a which have of times past. In It would be bly cheap to

:30:39.:30:46.

knock a man like Bob Crow for taking a holiday on the beaches of Brazil

:30:47.:30:52.

just days before a major tube strike. That is the conclusion Boris

:30:53.:31:07.

Johnson came to in his column, it wasn't so much the holiday but it

:31:08.:31:17.

was the unions attempt to paralise. Grumpy recrimination, lost revenue

:31:18.:31:22.

and grumpiness, much of it aimed at your man Bob, Bob and or Ritz

:31:23.:31:26.

haven't met for five years. This morning they clashed on a live radio

:31:27.:31:30.

show, each confusingly accusing the other of the same thing.. I can't

:31:31.:31:35.

sit down and negotiate with you. I'm not askin When you are holding a gun

:31:36.:31:40.

to Londoners' heads. You can't put a gun to your head? You are putting

:31:41.:31:44.

the gun to the head. You served the notice on our unions. The

:31:45.:31:48.

ammunition, bizarrely is a deranged shot at class war, with the old

:31:49.:31:54.

Eatonian pointing out the inconsistencies of a trade unionists

:31:55.:31:58.

living in a council house on a six-figure salary. He gets ?5,000 a

:31:59.:32:08.

year, Boris Johnson gets ?143,000. A tube driver will make ?52,000 by

:32:09.:32:17.

2015. The average wage for a London is ?32,800. The strike surrounds

:32:18.:32:22.

jobs and ticket office closures. Bob accuse Boris of breaking his

:32:23.:32:30.

election promise of promising not to close any one. Boris says things

:32:31.:32:35.

have moved on. Old fashioned technology, six years ago when I

:32:36.:32:41.

talked about closing the offices or not, the i phone wasn't invented. It

:32:42.:32:48.

is brave man that asks what technology has done for the world,

:32:49.:32:55.

perhaps Bob Crow is a different breed. Perhaps Camden Town doesn't

:32:56.:32:59.

like as enticing as his holiday desanyone nation.

:33:00.:33:04.

Aside from the discussion about the merits of Bob Crow's tan, the

:33:05.:33:11.

question is, is his union just holding up the inevitable technology

:33:12.:33:17.

with driverless trains and ticketless stations. Do you care

:33:18.:33:21.

about the damage done to the economy of Lon by this strike? London

:33:22.:33:26.

Underground relies on the economy and our members rely on working for

:33:27.:33:31.

London Underground. The bigger the economy gets in London the more

:33:32.:33:34.

people you use on London Underground. Making sure our jobs

:33:35.:33:38.

are more secure. You don't care enough to call off the strike? We

:33:39.:33:42.

do, we would love to call the strike off. Just do it then? But the point

:33:43.:33:47.

is, what do we get out of it. We don't call strikes for the sake of

:33:48.:33:52.

it. We call strikes because the employer doesn't take us seriously.

:33:53.:34:01.

The tube staff realise if you are disabled or partially sighted it

:34:02.:34:04.

will be more difficult to get a ticket. There is an argument that

:34:05.:34:07.

all we are doing ask trying to keep somebody behind a ticket office

:34:08.:34:12.

seing tickets, that is the not the case. You know the thing is

:34:13.:34:19.

contactless travel and driverless trains? Technology is coming in, we

:34:20.:34:23.

want to sit down and agree how the technology will be applied. We

:34:24.:34:27.

support London Underground, we want to sit round a table, not to be told

:34:28.:34:32.

that workers who have about 25, 30 years, heros when the vicious

:34:33.:34:36.

terrorist attacks took place in London. You don't want to change

:34:37.:34:41.

things, three months notice and get rid of the jobs. We are happy with

:34:42.:34:45.

change, we have had change all our lives. We have been crying out for

:34:46.:34:49.

change. How can you be crying out for change when you are opposing

:34:50.:34:53.

change? We are not opposing change, we are imposing how it is

:34:54.:34:59.

implemented. We might as well pack up a shop. If trade union can't ask

:35:00.:35:05.

for safety in the work place to and from the work place, decent pay and

:35:06.:35:09.

conditions, we might as well pack up. It has taken decades to get

:35:10.:35:15.

legislation in place to make sure there is proper work places and this

:35:16.:35:20.

crowd wants to take them all away. You know how it is going, great

:35:21.:35:25.

unions, shadows of their former selves, even the Labour Party is

:35:26.:35:30.

proposing the role of the unions and choosing of the leader. All across

:35:31.:35:35.

the board, unions are in retreat, and unions like yours have very

:35:36.:35:41.

little to look forward to? I think we do so, we are not members of the

:35:42.:35:45.

Labour Party, those in the Labour Party ask him, our membership has

:35:46.:35:52.

gone up from 53,000 to 81,000. That was in the last 12 years. The

:35:53.:35:59.

railways is another technology. A new technology will come in, you buy

:36:00.:36:03.

a new television and it is fantastic, but six months older it

:36:04.:36:07.

is old. We don't go around the place and say because the central heating

:36:08.:36:12.

is coming in we still want chimney sweepers. Houses are being built out

:36:13.:36:19.

chimneys, you turn the chimney sweets into central engineers. That

:36:20.:36:22.

is what we are doing, that is what we say about the underground. If a

:36:23.:36:30.

still isn't there we use the stils and diversify. I just wonder if you

:36:31.:36:34.

look at it you see the future of work and the marginalised role of

:36:35.:36:41.

trade unions in many areas of life. Don't you feel you belong in a

:36:42.:36:46.

different time? No I belong in 2014. You are a dinosaur? At the end of

:36:47.:36:50.

the day that was around for a long while. People join a trade union, in

:36:51.:36:54.

our view they do for one thing and one thing only, job secretary, being

:36:55.:37:01.

safe, best possible pay and conditions, decent conditions and

:37:02.:37:10.

world of peace. If we are not -- If we don't put it on the agenda, who

:37:11.:37:14.

will, who will be the people on the street to hold its banner for us if

:37:15.:37:20.

the trade unions don't hold it. To a story that almost seems too unlikely

:37:21.:37:26.

to be true. A fishermen sets off from the Mexican coast but gets lost

:37:27.:37:30.

at sea. Over a year later and thousands of miles away, the

:37:31.:37:39.

fisherman turns up on the Martial islands in the Pacific. He claims to

:37:40.:37:44.

have survived by drinking turtle blood and his own urine. We join a

:37:45.:37:55.

film maker on the trip. Do you believe him? In a word, yes. I can

:37:56.:38:05.

say categorically when he first waed up on the shore and I heard the

:38:06.:38:08.

story I was very sceptical. Having seen him and talked to him

:38:09.:38:12.

yesterday. Having filmed him getting off the boat. I really think this

:38:13.:38:19.

man went through on ordeal, you described some of the issues he had

:38:20.:38:24.

being at sea for so long. This is not somebody working an agenda or

:38:25.:38:29.

perpetrate a host. This is a simple fisherman from Mexico who has spent

:38:30.:38:33.

a long time at sea and has an incredible tale to tell. What sort

:38:34.:38:42.

of shape was he in? When he got off the boat some of the people saw the

:38:43.:38:46.

images that I shot and thought this guy looks big and healthy. How could

:38:47.:38:51.

he have been at sea. The issue had, he was very bloated and his face was

:38:52.:38:56.

bloated and his arms and hands were bloated. To me he didn't look

:38:57.:39:01.

healthy. He had a big baggy shirt on that made him look heavy. When we

:39:02.:39:07.

went a filmed him yesterday after the hospital overnight, the IVs,

:39:08.:39:13.

fluids, and being back in civilisation with people who you

:39:14.:39:19.

talk to. He started to go from the survival mode, which I imagine he

:39:20.:39:24.

was in for a long time, to OK, I'm back to reality I have to start

:39:25.:39:27.

thinking about myself and my future. You could see him. Even over the

:39:28.:39:31.

course of the interview, just his mentality changed and he seems in

:39:32.:39:40.

pretty good spirits but on the other hand he can't believe what he was

:39:41.:39:45.

just going through. His original story of going off on a fishing

:39:46.:39:51.

trip, I believe, wasn't it with a friend were is the friend? What

:39:52.:39:56.

happened is he told us the story and this got jumbled around in the

:39:57.:40:01.

media. He told it to us directly from his own lips yesterday. They

:40:02.:40:06.

had been at sea for about four months. He had a young man with him.

:40:07.:40:11.

He's not really sure of the young man's age, 15-17 years old, what

:40:12.:40:15.

they had been doing to that point, survive, they were beating raw

:40:16.:40:21.

birds, a lot of the diet was raw birds or a turtle if it was bumped

:40:22.:40:27.

up on the boat and they would eat it raw. Occasionally they would catch

:40:28.:40:33.

fish. Every time this young man would go to eat one of the young

:40:34.:40:38.

birds he would vomit and couldn't do T he was having a lot of time eating

:40:39.:40:42.

any kind of raw food. After a while we refused. Eventually he died, and

:40:43.:40:49.

according to Jose he flipped him off to boat and put him to sea after he

:40:50.:40:53.

died. When talked about this particular event in the interview.

:40:54.:41:02.

You could see the remorse come over his face. This was something that

:41:03.:41:05.

was starting to sink in the reality of his downhy. He started when he

:41:06.:41:09.

would talk about this young man, it was a really hard thing to talk

:41:10.:41:16.

about. There is quite a lot of excitement in the music world at

:41:17.:41:23.

present with the success of African artists. Million Pound Girl has been

:41:24.:41:28.

in the charts for many years. The performer is Fuse, British of

:41:29.:41:33.

Ghanaian descent. What is happening with the popularity of African music

:41:34.:41:35.

goes further than tunes or dancing. Fuse ODG or "on the ground"

:41:36.:41:58.

performing this dance in the clubs of Ghon and brought it to the UK.

:41:59.:42:03.

The sound known as Afrobeat, draws on the music of west Africa. The

:42:04.:42:12.

track represents a turning point, when Ghana's streets is as

:42:13.:42:18.

influential on British culture as hip hop in the UK. His next track,

:42:19.:42:33.

antenna took him mainstream, it reached the top ten last year. It

:42:34.:42:41.

stands for "this is the new Africa". Fuse OD doesn't just want to change

:42:42.:42:45.

the way people move but transform the way we see Africa. Fuse is here,

:42:46.:42:58.

what is all this stuff about transforming the way we see Africa?

:42:59.:43:03.

I grew up in the UK, I did primary school in Ghana and secondary school

:43:04.:43:09.

in the UK and university. Growing up in the UK, Africa wasn't perceived

:43:10.:43:14.

in such a good way. I took a trip back to Africa a few years ago, my

:43:15.:43:18.

experiences were completely different from what I had seen on

:43:19.:43:25.

TV, how my peers actually saw Africa. I just wanted to share my

:43:26.:43:33.

experience. Africa is at? Conrad Heart of Darkness, it is familiar

:43:34.:43:39.

anyone, corruption, it issups it is things not working, you say there is

:43:40.:43:44.

another picture people have missed? There is so much people have missed.

:43:45.:43:49.

When I land in Africa, the feeling I get, when in Africa. It is such an

:43:50.:43:54.

amazing feeling it annoyed me I was in the UK and this kind of feeling

:43:55.:44:00.

wasn't portrayed on the TVs or the radio. So toing it annoyed me I was

:44:01.:44:25.

in the UK and this kind of feeling wasn't portrayed on the TVs or the

:44:26.:44:28.

radio. So to me I'm sharing my music about Africa, there is poverty and

:44:29.:44:30.

things, but it is important to get the balance right. The media don't

:44:31.:44:33.

show the balance, especially when I was growing up. Is this feeling of a

:44:34.:44:36.

different kind of Africa, are people outside the African community

:44:37.:44:44.

beginning to understand that. Through the music we are making the

:44:45.:44:48.

of a toe beat. I performed at the MOBOs and I won an award. I let

:44:49.:44:54.

people know that Africa is not all that, the media is showing there is

:44:55.:44:58.

a different side to that. At Stamford university I shared my

:44:59.:45:02.

experience of Africa and not just about Africa but outside, me and

:45:03.:45:07.

African people. Their ideas on how to become reinvested back in. Are

:45:08.:45:13.

there white kids who want to be African? A white girl's phone rings

:45:14.:45:21.

and the tune is praying on the phone. Things have changed and the

:45:22.:45:31.

feeling proud to be really proud of who you are. What does it stand for

:45:32.:45:36.

on your hat? "This is new Africa", showcasing it through music,

:45:37.:45:40.

businesses, fashion, just there is so many different factors that the

:45:41.:45:45.

media never showcased when I was growing up. We are going to hear

:45:46.:45:49.

you. Don't talk for too long. I like talking. We want to hear you play.

:45:50.:45:56.

If you get ready for that,ly give some very -- I will give some

:45:57.:45:59.

interesting newspaper headlines. Yeah, the Telegraph, bigger council

:46:00.:46:03.

tax rise forced by Liberal Democrats.

:46:04.:46:26.

# You move like the wind # The way you put it on and off love

:46:27.:47:02.

# I want to come and give you my ring

:47:03.:47:05.

# My girl roll with a kick # She can give you everything

:47:06.:47:10.

# My girl roll with a kick # Like a singer

:47:11.:47:14.

# My girl is roll with a butter # I can give you everything

:47:15.:47:18.

# My girl roll with a kink # Every good man needs a Queen

:47:19.:47:22.

# I like it when you put it on # When you put it off

:47:23.:47:29.

# You always stay ahead like the hoodie army

:47:30.:47:32.

# I won't leave you lonely # Go and put it on

:47:33.:47:36.

# When put it on I'm really good # The hoodie army I like the way

:47:37.:47:44.

that you doing your thing # You doing your thing

:47:45.:47:49.

# All my pain off on the ground # You done move like the wind. ,

:47:50.:47:54.

evening, another stormy

:47:55.:47:56.

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