05/02/2014 Newsnight


05/02/2014

With Jeremy Paxman. A UN report into child abuse and the Vatican, coding being taught in schools, banning strikes and Michael Vaughan on Kevin Pieterson.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 05/02/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

The Vatican systematically turned a blind eye to the abuse of thousands

:00:10.:00:15.

of children by priests. The claim comes not from some fringe

:00:16.:00:18.

organisation or even victims of abuse. It comes from the United

:00:19.:00:23.

Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child. New era or no new era,

:00:24.:00:29.

this unprecedented attack has left the church aggrieved and angry. Does

:00:30.:00:34.

the UN speak for natural justice and is the Channel Tunnel capable of

:00:35.:00:37.

reform? Can you read the new Latin or is the

:00:38.:00:42.

plan to teach computer code about as practicable as compulsory ancient

:00:43.:00:46.

Greek. As strike action allows London's buses to offer the kind of

:00:47.:00:51.

claustrophobic experience normally only reserved for tube passengers,

:00:52.:00:55.

can there really be Conservative plans to ban strikes. So today's

:00:56.:01:02.

strike would have been unlawful. And there would have been a judge

:01:03.:01:07.

deciding between TFL and London over the job cuts. That's right, there

:01:08.:01:11.

would not be a strike. We will ask the former England cricket captain,

:01:12.:01:16.

Michael Vaughan, why on earth the game's bosses have sacked our best

:01:17.:01:26.

batsman. There has never been a report like it. There is the target,

:01:27.:01:30.

for one thing, the Vatican, vet seat of power in the Catholic Church.

:01:31.:01:35.

There is the accuser for another, an arm of the United Nations and the

:01:36.:01:38.

language for one more. It is blistering. The UN committee for the

:01:39.:01:42.

rights of the child, accuses of Catholic Church of adopting policies

:01:43.:01:47.

which allowed priests to abuse thousands of children. It is

:01:48.:01:50.

scathing about the church's behaviour. In a moment I will be

:01:51.:01:55.

talking to a press spokesman for the Vatican and an abuse survivor.

:01:56.:01:59.

First we have this report. Pope Francis may be an energetic and

:02:00.:02:06.

reforming new presence, but he henner incompetents -- inherits an

:02:07.:02:13.

old problem. Today the scandal that so tarnished Pope Benedict has not

:02:14.:02:18.

gone away. The report expressed "deepest concern" of the involvement

:02:19.:02:24.

of Catholic clerics in the abuse of tens and thousands of children

:02:25.:02:29.

worldwide. It called for the removal of Clergy that are known child

:02:30.:02:33.

abusers. It wants the Vaticans to open their files on Clergy that

:02:34.:02:38.

concealed their crimes. It condemned the transfer of child abusers to

:02:39.:02:43.

other parishes. The report's author said the church remained in breach

:02:44.:02:47.

of the UN Convention on Child protection. They are in breach of

:02:48.:02:51.

the convention, because they haven't done all the things they should have

:02:52.:02:55.

done. These are not only recommendations of best practice,

:02:56.:02:58.

some of them are real violations of the convention when you don't follow

:02:59.:03:01.

up and protect children when you have the possibility to do so. We

:03:02.:03:08.

would consider it a violation for future if they don't follow up on

:03:09.:03:13.

our recommendations. The scandal has had a devastating effect on the

:03:14.:03:16.

reputation of the church and much of the developed world. Even in Italy,

:03:17.:03:20.

congregations of ageing, and the church recruits priests from the

:03:21.:03:24.

developing world, where the faith is growing. Critics say the church has

:03:25.:03:28.

been more concerned with protecting its own reputation than with

:03:29.:03:32.

protecting the children in its care. I think the Catholic Church in the

:03:33.:03:36.

UK, certainly in England and Wales, has taken huge steps forward, and it

:03:37.:03:43.

is held up as a good example of child protection procedures and

:03:44.:03:47.

policies. But worldwide, the United Nations has said that children,

:03:48.:03:52.

thousands of children have been abused and many are still at risk, I

:03:53.:03:57.

think that is very significant. Having said that I do place some

:03:58.:04:02.

faith in Pope Francis, because he has said that child protection is

:04:03.:04:07.

the most important thing. The church is growing fast in Africa and south

:04:08.:04:11.

and central America, where local Clergy are held in high public

:04:12.:04:15.

veneration. Compared to Europe and North America, clerical child abuse

:04:16.:04:19.

is seldom even acknowledged here. That doesn't mean it is not

:04:20.:04:22.

happening. One abuse survivor told Newsnight last year that he had been

:04:23.:04:30.

abused in the very place he thought he was safest. TRANSLATION: In the

:04:31.:04:34.

house of God, in a church, in a church that didn't pay attention to

:04:35.:04:38.

what was being done to me. What other priests were doing to other

:04:39.:04:43.

children. It is complicated really. As a child well you think the church

:04:44.:04:48.

is there to look after children, not in my case. No-one stopped what was

:04:49.:04:55.

going on. The UN report has no legal standing, no power to effect change

:04:56.:05:00.

within these impervious walls. Pope Francis has promised to overhaul the

:05:01.:05:06.

notoriously secretive, defensive, Catholic hierarchy. Today's report

:05:07.:05:10.

is a reminder that there is much yet to be done. Well with us now here in

:05:11.:05:17.

the studio is one of the victims of that abuse. An abuse survivor a

:05:18.:05:26.

member of Snap, a network of those abused by priests. You were in

:05:27.:05:29.

Geneva today, what were your feelings about the report when it

:05:30.:05:33.

was published? It was very validating because we were very

:05:34.:05:36.

surprised that there was such a strong report. Because basically the

:05:37.:05:43.

United Nations has ratified what we the victims have been saying for

:05:44.:05:48.

decades, that there is a need for more transparency and the end of

:05:49.:05:52.

impunity, that child abuse is prosecuted, even if it is committed

:05:53.:05:56.

by priests. And also that there is a need for a culture of

:05:57.:05:59.

accountability. The bishops who protect child abusers have to be

:06:00.:06:02.

fired. I don't want to go into the details of your space, it happened

:06:03.:06:09.

in Spain. This pattern that the report refers to, where priests are

:06:10.:06:14.

moved from parish to parish and even country to country sometimes, rather

:06:15.:06:19.

than being brought to justice, is that something observably true in

:06:20.:06:24.

your experience? It was very interesting because there was a

:06:25.:06:27.

diverse group of survivors in Geneva. We were from different

:06:28.:06:31.

countries, different ages and the common experience was that when the

:06:32.:06:36.

Vatican have said they were changed and doing things in a different way,

:06:37.:06:41.

the feeling that we all had was that didn't happen in my case, they

:06:42.:06:46.

weren't transparent, they protected the abuser and they didn't punish

:06:47.:06:50.

him. There was a disconnect between the propaganda the Vatican was

:06:51.:06:53.

saying and our reality. The Vatican says it is going to "take note" of

:06:54.:06:57.

this report, which is a polite way of saying, I suspect, we will

:06:58.:07:01.

register that it has happened and that is about it, were you impressed

:07:02.:07:08.

by their reaction? No, but I wasn't surprised either. They will be doing

:07:09.:07:13.

and saying the same thing for the last 30 years. I guess they believe

:07:14.:07:18.

that they are going fast, taking into account how slowly the Channel

:07:19.:07:22.

Tunnel changes. But in child protection, a few decades is a

:07:23.:07:25.

really huge amount of time. They should have changed by now. But on

:07:26.:07:31.

the other happened the Catholic Church does have a legitimate

:07:32.:07:39.

complaint against the UN, this UN report has been attacked for its

:07:40.:07:45.

position on gay marriage and abortion, neither of which are the

:07:46.:07:50.

issues of the UN committee? I have read the report, from my

:07:51.:07:52.

understanding it doesn't exactly say what you are implying, they mention

:07:53.:07:58.

abortion in a very specific case, in which a child was raped and was

:07:59.:08:05.

pregnant and the bishop, instead of excommunicating the rapist,

:08:06.:08:09.

excommunicated the parent and the little child had an abortion. What

:08:10.:08:13.

the United Nations was saying that perhaps in the case of child rape

:08:14.:08:19.

the church could decide to take a more benevolent approach. I'm going

:08:20.:08:23.

to interrupt you there, we are joined from Toronto by the English

:08:24.:08:28.

language assistant to the holy see press office. Father Thomas, what's

:08:29.:08:36.

your reaction to this report? First of all the central purpose of the

:08:37.:08:39.

report was to address the question of child abuse by the Clergy. And I

:08:40.:08:44.

stand firmly with that report in that we have a problem and we have

:08:45.:08:48.

tried to address that problem as best as possible, especially since

:08:49.:08:55.

the year 2001. As the Holy See said formally and diplomatically, we have

:08:56.:08:58.

taken note of this and will respond in a detailed form to the issues

:08:59.:09:03.

raised. That is a diplomatic response to the report. However I

:09:04.:09:06.

have certain questions about how this report was generated, and also

:09:07.:09:12.

some very serious Lacuna or absence in this report of key issues. For

:09:13.:09:19.

example there is a complete obvious ignorance of the history of the

:09:20.:09:23.

Catholic Church in addressing the situation, especially since 2001.

:09:24.:09:27.

Secondly, there is a very clear attempt in this report to have a new

:09:28.:09:31.

reading of history. The report and those who wrote it do not understand

:09:32.:09:34.

the structure of the Catholic Church. And the third area of the

:09:35.:09:39.

report is what other religious group would endure a religious

:09:40.:09:46.

intervention by the United Nations into doctrinal practice and the

:09:47.:09:48.

living out of one's faith. This would never be done with other

:09:49.:09:51.

religious groups. I think the group went over the top in inserting

:09:52.:09:56.

themselves, or asserting themselves in areas over which they have no

:09:57.:09:59.

competence whatsoever. The basic thrust of the report on this

:10:00.:10:02.

question of child abuse, you agree with, that the Catholic Church has

:10:03.:10:07.

shown itself more concerned with moving priests around and protecting

:10:08.:10:10.

the reputation of your institution than it has with the welfare of the

:10:11.:10:14.

child, you accept that do you? We have said very clearly, as the

:10:15.:10:17.

church, from the highest level, all the way down to the diocese level

:10:18.:10:25.

that there have been crimes committed and sins committed. Let me

:10:26.:10:30.

ask you one simple question then. Let me finish the sentence please.

:10:31.:10:34.

You are saying what you have done in the past, I'm asking you in the

:10:35.:10:37.

light of the report whether you will now make it an instruction to

:10:38.:10:41.

diocese that when an allegation of child abuse is reported, the

:10:42.:10:44.

relevant prosecuting authorities or the police are informed immediately.

:10:45.:10:49.

That is under way now. It has been under way. So the report shows it is

:10:50.:10:53.

not ware of the policies and procedures that have been

:10:54.:10:56.

implemented. Now let me say this too, the report presumes that Rome,

:10:57.:11:03.

the Vatican, the Holy See sits perched on the hill issuing dictates

:11:04.:11:07.

to all the branch offices. That is not the reality of the church. The

:11:08.:11:11.

power of the church in this area resides with the local bishop. It

:11:12.:11:15.

resides in local situations. We know in some situations more than others

:11:16.:11:22.

the serious crimes are known to everyone and we have addressed them.

:11:23.:11:27.

In the numerous diocese in the United States, Canada and Great

:11:28.:11:30.

Britain where you are, that the bishops have been extremely

:11:31.:11:33.

courageous in addressing this issue. We know that other people have not

:11:34.:11:38.

been so assiduous and courageous to do that. We have a victim of abuse

:11:39.:11:43.

by a Catholic priest in the studio, would you like to react to what

:11:44.:11:50.

Father Thomas has just said? I would want to ask him two questions. The

:11:51.:11:56.

first question is the first time there was a report regarding the

:11:57.:12:00.

problem with child abuse was in 1995 and it was done by Father Thomas

:12:01.:12:07.

Doyle, I was three years old, they had 13 years to sort it out and

:12:08.:12:12.

perhaps if they had done something I wouldn't have been abused when I was

:12:13.:12:17.

16. They only decided to report crimes to the authorities in 2011,

:12:18.:12:25.

25 years after the first warning sign was shown. To put those two

:12:26.:12:28.

things together, you are saying that the problem has been one that they

:12:29.:12:33.

have not seen this as urgent? 25 years. Please let me just say this,

:12:34.:12:41.

is your name Miguel? Yes. First of all I want to apologise to you for

:12:42.:12:45.

what you have endured. On behalf of the church and on behalf of me as a

:12:46.:12:51.

priest, it is disgusting, it is criminal, sinful it is evil, and you

:12:52.:12:54.

have bourne this and you have suffered from it and I am very, very

:12:55.:12:59.

sorry, that being said, we are doing our absolute best to make sure that

:13:00.:13:03.

no more young people will endure what you, Miguel have endured.

:13:04.:13:07.

Gentlemen thank you very much indeed. I'm sorry about the

:13:08.:13:11.

technical problems we have had with all of this thank you very much both

:13:12.:13:13.

of you. Every politician knows the National

:13:14.:13:16.

Health Service is a sacred cow when it comes to talk of the need for

:13:17.:13:20.

cuts in public spending. If politics is about choices it is one choice

:13:21.:13:24.

no-one wants to argue for. But if there is a surge in demand for

:13:25.:13:27.

health care because of growing population, what does it mean to say

:13:28.:13:33.

the budget is ring-fenced, not much according to the Institute for

:13:34.:13:36.

Fiscal Studies which warned today that by the end of this decade we

:13:37.:13:39.

will have gone through a cut in health spending per person of nine.

:13:40.:13:50.

11%. -- nine. 1%. What want to think

:13:51.:14:05.

about -- who wants to think about money when this is happening. You

:14:06.:14:09.

are carrying life in you and billions of other women have done

:14:10.:14:13.

the same thing. It is knowing how fundamental wishes like that are,

:14:14.:14:17.

from giving birth and staying alive into old age that led politicians to

:14:18.:14:22.

ring-fence the NHS budget. With each of the issues fulfilled there is a

:14:23.:14:26.

new human being with needs, and they will need healthcare for longer than

:14:27.:14:30.

before. From the roof of the Royal London Hospital, you can get an idea

:14:31.:14:34.

of how many extra people trusts like these have to serve. It is because

:14:35.:14:37.

of the surge in population, not budget cuts, that NHS budgets are

:14:38.:14:41.

getting squeezed. The population growth is down to two factor,

:14:42.:14:45.

immigration and people living longer. That means that even though

:14:46.:14:49.

budgets are ring-fenced they are spread across more people, and there

:14:50.:14:54.

is less money to spend per person. Today the Institute for Fiscal

:14:55.:14:59.

studios made it clear how flimsy thes fence of the NHS has become.

:15:00.:15:03.

Between 2010 and 2019 the population will have grown by 3. 5 million. We

:15:04.:15:09.

are in this tough position where NHS spending is protected, but

:15:10.:15:14.

everywhere else will see big cuts, but even the NHS will feel tight.

:15:15.:15:20.

There is 9% less to spend on each individual given what has happened

:15:21.:15:25.

to the structure of the population. Bart's Health said you can find ways

:15:26.:15:30.

to care for more patients by the same budget like avoiding

:15:31.:15:35.

appointments. Missing appointments costs money, instead of women going

:15:36.:15:39.

to three different appointments for three different sites they come here

:15:40.:15:42.

and have all three appointments in the same day. So on the same day we

:15:43.:15:47.

do the bloods, we do the booking history and the scan. In another

:15:48.:15:51.

example of cuts that can help patients, London's stroke wards were

:15:52.:15:57.

cut, that cost howls of protest, but health patients avoid the most

:15:58.:16:00.

expensive part of healthcare. Now you get taken, if you have a stroke,

:16:01.:16:04.

to one of eight hyperacute stroke centres in London. This is one at

:16:05.:16:08.

the Royal London Hospital right now. What has happened is the length of

:16:09.:16:11.

stay across London for stroke has gone down from an average of 19 days

:16:12.:16:16.

to ten days. That is a significant benefit to patients, and significant

:16:17.:16:19.

saving for the healthcare economy. If you could well enough keeping

:16:20.:16:23.

people out of hospital it becomes logical to cut back on hospital

:16:24.:16:28.

beds. The problem is this isn't a national hospital service, it is a

:16:29.:16:32.

National Health Service, we tend to focus on hospitals as if they are

:16:33.:16:37.

the only way that care can be delivered. And one of the problems

:16:38.:16:43.

is that we find it difficult to demonstrate to the public and to

:16:44.:16:48.

some politicians the benefits of delivering care closer to home, more

:16:49.:16:53.

personalised and involving and engaging patients and carers. But as

:16:54.:16:59.

the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt recent leap found when he proposed

:17:00.:17:03.

downgrading Accident and Emergency services at Lewisham, what is

:17:04.:17:09.

clinically logical may not be politically palatable. The

:17:10.:17:12.

efficiencies can mean innovation, but it can also mean subtley

:17:13.:17:16.

restricting access to some treatments, otherwise known as

:17:17.:17:20.

rationing. At what point do you need an operation? What is the threshold

:17:21.:17:25.

you have to cross over until you need a cataract. How ill do you have

:17:26.:17:29.

to be before you need a hip operation and so on. These are

:17:30.:17:33.

clinical judgments and they are judgments, it is not a fixed line in

:17:34.:17:38.

the sand. But the NHS has looked at those. How in a sense how behind do

:17:39.:17:42.

you have to be before you have a cataract. However the NHS innovates,

:17:43.:17:49.

it will be hard to convince the public that a cut of 9% per person

:17:50.:17:55.

won't hurt a bit. For couples making their on contribution to the

:17:56.:17:58.

population, every pound spent on healthcare is precious.

:17:59.:18:02.

How good are you at writing computer code. Once upon a time ambitious

:18:03.:18:07.

parents discouraged their children from learning keyboard skills

:18:08.:18:10.

because they might determine their job prospects. Today without

:18:11.:18:14.

keyboard skills your job prospects are definitely affected for the

:18:15.:18:19.

worst. There is now a serious effort to encourage teachers to pass on

:18:20.:18:23.

coding skills, once they have been taught how to do it properly for

:18:24.:18:26.

themselves, of course. Learning to use code is seen by some as the

:18:27.:18:35.

three Rs once were. Don't forget to put a semicolon at the end of any of

:18:36.:18:39.

these lines here, just to tell the browsers you have ended the line. A

:18:40.:18:44.

group of high-powered women in London's Tech City are learning

:18:45.:18:47.

though code. They are presented with a series of baffling computer

:18:48.:18:57.

commands. We are hiding the form in case they are not yet at the

:18:58.:19:05.

location. This Gobbledegook will help them build apps. Lily Cole, the

:19:06.:19:12.

actress and model is in the process of launching her own app and

:19:13.:19:16.

website. I have heard learning code is like learning a foreign language?

:19:17.:19:22.

It is like several foreign languages at a time. It is cool to see how

:19:23.:19:27.

quickly we can pick it up. We have all built a website in one day which

:19:28.:19:31.

is cool. Starting to play with design and seeing immediately how

:19:32.:19:35.

the affects of the text creates visual imagery, it is an amazing

:19:36.:19:38.

thing to see. What do you make of kids learning about it in school? I

:19:39.:19:42.

love the idea of kids learning about it in school. I was looking for

:19:43.:19:46.

coders over the last few years and quite shocked by what a limited

:19:47.:19:52.

supply there was to meet the growing demand. I taught myself to code when

:19:53.:19:56.

I was eight. The Government has announced, through this ad that 2014

:19:57.:20:01.

is the year of code. It wants to tackle the skills shortage by making

:20:02.:20:04.

coding part of the national curriculum. It will be taught to

:20:05.:20:08.

5-16-year-olds. I want to make sure that kids in our schools are not

:20:09.:20:13.

just consumers of technology and computer programmes, they don't just

:20:14.:20:17.

know how to open up Word and Power point, they also understand how the

:20:18.:20:21.

computer programmes are put together, they understand coding. It

:20:22.:20:25.

comes after years of criticism from within the tech industry that

:20:26.:20:29.

Britain, the country that invented the first electronic computer, is in

:20:30.:20:35.

danger of throwing that computer heritage away. Great Britain has

:20:36.:20:38.

something like 10% of our industry is based around IT and computer

:20:39.:20:41.

science and computer software. We have a great heritage and place to

:20:42.:20:48.

build on. What hasn't been happening is teaching kids about computer

:20:49.:20:53.

programming at a young age. So we have lost that background of people

:20:54.:20:59.

coming up through the schooling system with that experience. Does

:21:00.:21:07.

anybody know what coding is? You use words and numbers to give the

:21:08.:21:13.

computer instructions? These 10-11-year-olds have just started

:21:14.:21:16.

learning about coding. It is a pilot for the lessons the Government is

:21:17.:21:21.

producing in England and Wales from September. Why can't you just play

:21:22.:21:25.

and work on a computer, why do you need to know all that stuff? Because

:21:26.:21:30.

when you are older you might need coding for your work, say if you

:21:31.:21:34.

were a banker you need coding to do the banks. Do you think you might

:21:35.:21:42.

need it? Yeah. To do what? To work and to make your own website if you

:21:43.:21:47.

wanted to. Half a million pounds has been pledged by the Government to

:21:48.:21:52.

train up more than 170,000 primary and secondary teachers in coding

:21:53.:21:59.

over the next six months. There is a lot of different apps and softwares

:22:00.:22:03.

available now that weren't available before. And even adults, we're new

:22:04.:22:10.

to it as well. We will need to learn things we haven't covered in initial

:22:11.:22:15.

teacher training. Are you a tiny bit daunted? A little bit. Here in Tech

:22:16.:22:20.

City they are trying out for people who know how to code. One local tech

:22:21.:22:28.

entrepeneur have to go abroad to find people to do it. It is war of

:22:29.:22:33.

who can get the people first. As far as the industry is concerned the

:22:34.:22:36.

coding lessons can't start soon enough. There is a bit of concern

:22:37.:22:39.

about how the subject is taught. In terms of your fears what do you

:22:40.:22:42.

think it could be like if they are not careful? I didn't like learning

:22:43.:22:46.

French and the reason I didn't like it is because I thought it is

:22:47.:22:50.

completely irrelevant, I thought I'm learning to pass an example, why

:22:51.:22:53.

should I care. Where as if it was sold to me that you can go to France

:22:54.:22:57.

and experience a whole new culture, I would have gone I will go, try it

:22:58.:23:03.

and experience it. Coding could be taught in a way where you sit down

:23:04.:23:09.

and it is like let's learn the grammar of html, it is so abstract

:23:10.:23:15.

and boring. If you ground it in a serious problem in my life or issue

:23:16.:23:18.

or something really cool I want to do. It is about making it relevant

:23:19.:23:23.

ultimately. Coursed say where the English language was once an

:23:24.:23:27.

essential business commodity, now in a digital era, code is the new king

:23:28.:23:32.

of global communication. The Government helped to launch the

:23:33.:23:37.

Year of Code campaign, and Lottie Dexter is the director, how easy is

:23:38.:23:42.

it to learn how to code? I can't code. I have committed this year to

:23:43.:23:49.

learning to code. A year? You can do a lot in a short space of time. You

:23:50.:23:54.

can build a website in an hour. From scratch, not knowing how to do it?

:23:55.:23:59.

Completely from scratch. Over this year I will see what I can achieve.

:24:00.:24:03.

Who knows I might be the next Zuckerberg in 12 months time. It is

:24:04.:24:08.

possible, one can always dream. How long does it take to learn to teach

:24:09.:24:15.

to code? Well I think you can pick it up in day. The teacher can pick

:24:16.:24:21.

it up in a day? I think if we start teachers thinking about it now, in

:24:22.:24:27.

March we're taking coding into the classrooms for the first time and

:24:28.:24:31.

encouraging all teachers to teach an hour to their pupils. If we start

:24:32.:24:35.

thinking about it now in time for September when it goes on to the

:24:36.:24:39.

schools curriculum teachers should feel excited and people should be

:24:40.:24:44.

about learning code. Isn't it all based on falsehood, the idea that it

:24:45.:24:48.

is essential to know how to code. It is not essential to know how to code

:24:49.:24:54.

or how a lightbulb works, is it? In the modern day economy code is

:24:55.:24:58.

really a vital skill. Technology has completely changed our economy, our

:24:59.:25:03.

Labour market, our society. To know how to do it? Unless we understand

:25:04.:25:07.

technology we don't really understand how the world works. When

:25:08.:25:11.

I was at school I was taught you know so much about the human body,

:25:12.:25:18.

in physics I was told to wire up a lightbulb, it is important to know

:25:19.:25:21.

how it works. Knowing how to code is crucial for so many people for

:25:22.:25:26.

getting jobs in the new economy. We need a work force for the new

:25:27.:25:29.

economy. But also to increase your earnings potential and to start your

:25:30.:25:33.

own business. In this new economy wouldn't it be more useful to

:25:34.:25:37.

learning something like mandarin? I think the code is an international

:25:38.:25:42.

language. I think that if you can learn to code you can interact

:25:43.:25:47.

across boundaries and you can, I think the important thing is that

:25:48.:25:52.

you can get yourself started, it is a great leveller. Having code in

:25:53.:25:56.

schools and giving every pupil the ability to code, they can, you know,

:25:57.:26:00.

start their own business, it is not something that is just marginalised

:26:01.:26:07.

for middle-class parents. It can be whatever you want it to be, the

:26:08.:26:10.

schools on the Internet are so cheap and easily available now. You can

:26:11.:26:14.

set up your on-line profile and start a website. I started a

:26:15.:26:18.

campaign last year. If I would have learned code at school I could have

:26:19.:26:22.

done my own website. I could have done my own app and graphics, I

:26:23.:26:25.

would have saved a hell of a lot of time and money. I think I could have

:26:26.:26:35.

done it a lot better. For the sake of old duffers like Mark You are --

:26:36.:26:46.

Urban, what is code? It is the language of instructing computers.

:26:47.:26:49.

It is how you make computers do things. So it is different symbols?

:26:50.:26:54.

But it doesn't mean anything? It doesn't mean anything to you or

:26:55.:26:58.

indeed to me yet, because I don't know how to code. It is a set of

:26:59.:27:04.

instructions you type into a computer to get an output. When this

:27:05.:27:08.

goes on to the schools curriculum, every pupil from the age of five

:27:09.:27:12.

will learn how to code. They will pop into a box a set of instructions

:27:13.:27:18.

and they will see what you put in you get it out. It is how you make

:27:19.:27:30.

computers do something. What is an e-card. It is a virtual card. There

:27:31.:27:34.

is a national initiative to teach people how to make cards? And

:27:35.:27:39.

websites and apps, they are fun ways of learning a very important skill

:27:40.:27:42.

that you really need. It is the future. You really need it for the

:27:43.:27:49.

21st job market. Three Rs and a C. Thank you very much. An Australian

:27:50.:27:55.

reporter, a Canadian-Egyptian producer and Egyptian cameraman are

:27:56.:28:01.

spending their 39th night in custody in Cairo. All three work for

:28:02.:28:06.

Al-Jazeera, they are accused of links to terrorism and broadcasting

:28:07.:28:12.

false news. Where would we be if that was an offence in this country.

:28:13.:28:19.

Footage of their arrest was put on a Cairo TV channel set to music. Our

:28:20.:28:27.

diplomatic editor is here. This all seems to have ratcheted up recently?

:28:28.:28:33.

Absolutely, in the past couple of days. These journalists were

:28:34.:28:38.

arrested at the end of December. It is a cause for concern they are

:28:39.:28:43.

still there. Things start to change, the Tahir TV station airs this

:28:44.:28:49.

footage designed to make them look like people involved in some kind of

:28:50.:28:54.

conspiracy. On the right is a former BBC man, I worked beside him in

:28:55.:29:00.

Baghdad morning places. The other man has a Canadian passport. They

:29:01.:29:04.

are making these serious-sounding charges. They have also announced

:29:05.:29:12.

they want to talk to another 20 people son similar-sounding charges,

:29:13.:29:17.

like aiding the Muslim Brotherhood. Al-Jazeera says only nine worked for

:29:18.:29:21.

them. Another fled Egypt having been in hiding. The situation escalated

:29:22.:29:25.

last night and the White House expressed its grave concern. Sorry I

:29:26.:29:33.

thought we were about to hear the White House expressing grave concern

:29:34.:29:38.

there. Tell me, journalists generally, it seems to me, are now

:29:39.:29:42.

finding it extremely difficult to work there, aren't they? It has

:29:43.:29:50.

before difficult. There are different levels of aggro, people

:29:51.:29:54.

right from the fall of Mubarak are angry, they blame us and other news

:29:55.:29:59.

organisations. There is aggro on the streets. Sometimes sexual aggro

:30:00.:30:08.

towards female reporters. Then at intermediate -- interimmediate level

:30:09.:30:13.

you have bureaucracy thrown at reporters about them being

:30:14.:30:17.

registered. At this top of the tree this type of thing, arrest and

:30:18.:30:22.

serious charges. What is paying out here goes beyond an irritation that

:30:23.:30:28.

the people have with foreign media and what part they played. There is

:30:29.:30:33.

a battle of influence between Saudi Arabia and Qatar, Al-Jazeera is

:30:34.:30:39.

based in Qatar, the Egyptian Government claim it acts as an arm

:30:40.:30:43.

of the Government there. They were supporting Mohammed Morsi, the

:30:44.:30:48.

ousted President, the Egyptian military regards clamping down on

:30:49.:30:59.

them and favouring the rivals. One Egyptian journalist said to me

:31:00.:31:03.

frankly this will go on until the Emir of Qatar changes his mind.

:31:04.:31:11.

We're joined now from Doha by our guest, director of news at

:31:12.:31:15.

Al-Jazeera English Channel. What have you heard about your three or

:31:16.:31:24.

four hostages in Egypt? There are three from the English Channel and

:31:25.:31:28.

one from the Arabic channel in detention. The one from the Arabic

:31:29.:31:32.

channel is in detention for six months now, and he is on a hunger

:31:33.:31:40.

strike. The three Al-Jazeera men are in one cell in a high-security

:31:41.:31:45.

prison in Cairo. They were served charges. Conveniently the charges

:31:46.:31:49.

were split between the Egyptian journalists and non-Egyptian

:31:50.:31:52.

journalists. The Egyptians were accused of being members of

:31:53.:31:58.

terrorist organisations and non-Egyptians of aiding them. It is

:31:59.:32:02.

actually fabrication and nonsense and intimidation and irritation of

:32:03.:32:06.

journalists in order to get one side of the story coming from Egypt only.

:32:07.:32:16.

Is it true that some of your people there are or were there without

:32:17.:32:21.

being properly accredited. Let's set a few things clear from the

:32:22.:32:25.

beginning. The accreditation is part of the charges. As I read in the

:32:26.:32:33.

charges here they are always mentioned that they are

:32:34.:32:39.

nonaccredited with the intention of harming security. It is a simple

:32:40.:32:46.

charge and doesn't refer journalists to criminal courts. Were they

:32:47.:32:52.

properly accredited there or not? Al-Jazeera media network is

:32:53.:32:56.

officially accredited to work in Egypt. It has been working for all

:32:57.:33:03.

the time. Were those officials accredited there? Some of the

:33:04.:33:07.

journalists are accredited, and some applied for accreditation. It

:33:08.:33:11.

happens with all media organisations, this is not the

:33:12.:33:15.

charge, they are being charged with. It is a nonaccredited

:33:16.:33:24.

journallingists with the intent of harming national security. If they

:33:25.:33:30.

were only not accredited that is a very simple administrative offence.

:33:31.:33:37.

So you say, it is the case, is it not that Qatar has been playing a

:33:38.:33:45.

role in recent events in Egypt. That it is at odds with the military

:33:46.:33:49.

Government there and Al-Jazeera is largely run by the Government of

:33:50.:33:53.

Qatar, is that not correct? I'm not a spokesman for the Government of

:33:54.:33:58.

Qatar, and Al-Jazeera is not run by the Government of Qatar. Actually

:33:59.:34:03.

the BBC is like Al-Jazeera, BBC World Service is funded by the

:34:04.:34:06.

Foreign Ministry. It is not owned by a member of the Royal Family? No,

:34:07.:34:14.

but the British Government has the support of governors. It is not

:34:15.:34:19.

owned by them either? By the Foreign Ministry, BBC World Service. I was

:34:20.:34:24.

an editor on there and I know that. It has a board of governors and

:34:25.:34:28.

editorial guidelines and it answers for this. The same thing here we are

:34:29.:34:34.

an independent organisation, funded by the Qatar Government and we have

:34:35.:34:39.

our own board of governors and code of ethics and conduct that we answer

:34:40.:34:44.

for. All our products and our reports are on-line and they are, we

:34:45.:34:50.

are of high quality and objectivity. You can see how the Egyptian

:34:51.:34:56.

Government, which is at odds with the Qatary Government might feel

:34:57.:35:01.

that an organisation funded by the Qatar Government was about some

:35:02.:35:04.

other business than nearly as you put it, objectily reporting the

:35:05.:35:13.

news. I know the accusations and the same accusations were put to the BBC

:35:14.:35:19.

by Zimbabwe when you weren't able to report from there and other places.

:35:20.:35:22.

Governments were at odds together but we are free journalists. We are

:35:23.:35:28.

independent and we cherish our quality of work and integrity. And

:35:29.:35:34.

our mission to get to the viewer the story from all sides regardless of

:35:35.:35:38.

the price for them. Thank you very much for joining us thank you. It is

:35:39.:35:45.

surely no surprise when an England sporting team and fails

:35:46.:35:50.

spectacularly, heads sooner or later will role. It is usually preceded by

:35:51.:35:57.

the sports pages clicking their knitting needles together. Today it

:35:58.:36:01.

is the other way round, for reasons they didn't bother to explain the

:36:02.:36:05.

England Cricket Board dumped Kevin Pietersen, because the national

:36:06.:36:12.

cricket team put up such a pathetic performance this winter. Now the

:36:13.:36:19.

journalists are up in arms at the dismissal of the captain Michael

:36:20.:36:24.

Vaughan? What do you think of the way Kevin Pietersen's case has been

:36:25.:36:29.

handled. It needs clarity, reasoning from the ECB for the fans to

:36:30.:36:35.

understand what has Kevin Pietersen been doing behind the scenes to

:36:36.:36:38.

bring the sacking of the player that has scored more runs than anybody

:36:39.:36:44.

else. I have captained him and at times he's difficult and a Payne in

:36:45.:36:47.

the back side, but a maverick that can win you games of cricket. You

:36:48.:36:53.

know him and you have captained him, if anybody who can divine why he was

:36:54.:36:58.

going it has to be you? There is times when Kevin Pietersen and that

:36:59.:37:01.

character is difficult around the team. He has played 100 test matches

:37:02.:37:07.

and has an opinion. You as a leader you have to take on opinion. At

:37:08.:37:11.

times when you are leading and the team aren't doing well, the opinion

:37:12.:37:16.

from senior players and outside world will not always be the opinion

:37:17.:37:19.

you want to hear. But you have to deal with it. Management of players

:37:20.:37:26.

is like management. If you can't manage a maverick like Pietersen you

:37:27.:37:34.

need to think bin again. England have a lots of matches coming up, I

:37:35.:37:38.

just think it is sad for the game that we don't have a group of people

:37:39.:37:44.

that can manage one player through that period of play in three big

:37:45.:37:48.

series, big tournaments for England. They feel the only way to move

:37:49.:37:54.

forward is getting rid of Pietersen without explaining what he has done

:37:55.:38:00.

wrong. Did he have any friend in the dressing room? There is always

:38:01.:38:05.

devisive moments and cliques of people getting on with a certain

:38:06.:38:10.

penalty more than another. What I hear from the tour is Pietersen is

:38:11.:38:15.

fight. It was only last week that Swanson who retired came out and

:38:16.:38:19.

said Pietersen, his attitude was spot on, since he has been

:38:20.:38:25.

reintegrated into the side. He felt Kevin had plenty more runs to score

:38:26.:38:29.

for England. That is somebody in the dressing room. I don't think it is a

:38:30.:38:33.

be proem. He has stood up to the coach, Andy Flower, on the tour of

:38:34.:38:38.

Australia, he didn't like it, but they have listen to Flores and Cook,

:38:39.:38:44.

I don't think Ashley Giles could have said too much. Pietersen wasn't

:38:45.:38:49.

in Australia on the one day series, but English cricket feel the only

:38:50.:38:54.

way to move forward without Pietersen. I would have taken a

:38:55.:38:57.

tougher call and said somebody needs to manage him better. How difficult

:38:58.:39:01.

is it to manage a brilliant and you have used the word wise now about

:39:02.:39:06.

Pietersen, a "brilliant maverick". Well it is training -- draining and

:39:07.:39:15.

hard. It is very rewarding, if you look at English cricket over the

:39:16.:39:18.

last ten years, Flintoff had the same quality. You manage him and

:39:19.:39:23.

2005 he delivered, as did Pietersen in the last over. Go through the

:39:24.:39:28.

last six or seven years, he was man of the tournament in Barbados, the

:39:29.:39:35.

T20, he averaged 106 against independent. We got a double century

:39:36.:39:42.

in the Test Match. England would have drawn going down 1-0 at Perth.

:39:43.:39:47.

You look at a year-and-a-half ago when he produced problem the best

:39:48.:39:51.

England hundred I have seen for many years. England win that series with

:39:52.:39:56.

Kevin Pietersen. 100 hold Trafford last year, it would have been 2-1,

:39:57.:40:01.

with two to play for Australia. You have to accept with people like

:40:02.:40:05.

Pietersen and Flintoff they train you a bit but they reward you with

:40:06.:40:10.

the performance levels, not just the mediocrity. The best teams and best

:40:11.:40:14.

attacks in the world. That is what Petersen has done, he can be --

:40:15.:40:19.

Pietersen has done, he can be a Payne and difficult, but also the

:40:20.:40:22.

person who makes you win games of cricket. You have to be careful you

:40:23.:40:28.

shouldn't bin someone like that and don't reward him in a way and say

:40:29.:40:31.

thanks for your time with us, thanks for winning us all those gapes. And

:40:32.:40:38.

don't know him out like they have, and they could have moved the team

:40:39.:40:45.

on. Aclots -- across the south of England men and women have been

:40:46.:40:49.

drying off their shoes ready for a walk to work tomorrow. Trains and

:40:50.:40:53.

depots and commuters were left in fury, which is probably more

:40:54.:40:59.

accurately designed as sullen, resentment. Much dark talk in

:41:00.:41:07.

political circles of plans for the MPs to change the law and half

:41:08.:41:12.

people having to vote yes to industrial action. Once upon a time

:41:13.:41:17.

the BBC had an industrial correspondent. Strike reporters.

:41:18.:41:22.

Time to resurrect the last of them. It was tough getting to work, the

:41:23.:41:28.

two unions that represent the tube station staff are not the drivers

:41:29.:41:36.

who are out on strike. They are in a dispute over the loss of 750 jobs

:41:37.:41:40.

from closing the direct offices. Lots of people are faced disruption

:41:41.:41:46.

today, more London Underground lines and stations have been closed in

:41:47.:41:51.

this strike than any tube business pute for the last ten years. It is

:41:52.:41:57.

said to be costing London ?50 million a year. And with another

:41:58.:42:03.

two-day stoppage plan for next week, the Conservatives are determined to

:42:04.:42:09.

stop them happening again. Boris Johnson says:

:42:10.:42:15.

The Prime Minister want to go further, imposing a minimum service

:42:16.:42:22.

level agreed so they provide a little service. The Conservatives on

:42:23.:42:28.

a Greater London Authority wants an all-out ban on strikes. They should

:42:29.:42:33.

be replaced by binding arbitration. We want to replace strikes, so

:42:34.:42:37.

damaging to the economy and London. The idea if the Government were to

:42:38.:42:41.

accept that it is binding arbitration in the case of an

:42:42.:42:46.

argument going on between Transport for London and the union. A judge

:42:47.:42:50.

would look at it and decide which was the case that he was going to

:42:51.:42:56.

support. Today's strike would have been unlawful. There would have to

:42:57.:43:02.

be a judge deciding in favour of TFL or the unions in the job cut. That's

:43:03.:43:06.

right, there would not be a strike. In the 1970s and 80, I was always

:43:07.:43:12.

coming to the then headquarters of the Conservative Party, to hear of

:43:13.:43:15.

their latest plans for curbing the trade unions. And it became an

:43:16.:43:19.

all-out war against the British trade union movement. The 1984

:43:20.:43:27.

miners' strike was a turning point in Britain's troubled industrial

:43:28.:43:33.

relations. In a war of attrition Margaret Thatcher said she was

:43:34.:43:35.

taking on the enemy within. And her defeat of the shocked troops of the

:43:36.:43:39.

union movement ended the all out strikes in the past. Successive

:43:40.:43:43.

Conservative Government have curbed union power imposing secret ballots

:43:44.:43:48.

before strike. Ending pass picketing but trying to stop essential

:43:49.:43:53.

services and striking is unfinished business. With the coalition

:43:54.:43:56.

Government, Liberal Democrats are a break on the Conservatives. Vincent

:43:57.:44:04.

Cable won't be rushed into changing the law. If we legislate on

:44:05.:44:09.

industrial relations we have to look carefully at the evidence, not

:44:10.:44:14.

rushing into strike laws on the back of a bad dispute in London it is a

:44:15.:44:19.

bad way to proceed. The tube train drivers have previously staged their

:44:20.:44:23.

own strikes and like the station staff they would fight back against

:44:24.:44:29.

any new laws. Its It is time for trade unions to stand up for

:44:30.:44:37.

themselves with the general public. -- I think you will see massive

:44:38.:44:42.

backlash against this from civil society. The reality is trade union

:44:43.:44:46.

numbers are growing. We believe that is a direct reaction to the policies

:44:47.:44:51.

that are currently in place. People now see a greater need for trade

:44:52.:44:55.

unions and they will become more powerful as we go forward, I think.

:44:56.:45:01.

While the unions claim they have the backing of two thirds of passengers,

:45:02.:45:04.

the Conservatives are convinced the strikes are unpopular and present a

:45:05.:45:09.

fresh opportunity to introduce legislation they have been working

:45:10.:45:12.

on for years, to curb stoppages in the essential services, a policy

:45:13.:45:15.

that is more likely to be in the Conservatives' next election

:45:16.:45:17.

manifesto. Now the front pages: That's it at the close of another

:45:18.:46:20.

day of rain and general glum wintriness. The railway line was

:46:21.:46:28.

washed away in Dawlish in Devon. And in Torquay the seafront took a

:46:29.:46:32.

pasting. Nice to think not all Februarys are quite like this.

:46:33.:46:42.

The glorious Devon coast bathed in winter sunshine, equalising any

:46:43.:46:49.

Mediterranean beauty spot. Don't you think. How is this for climate. Why

:46:50.:46:54.

even from the screen you can imagine yourself in the sub-topics.

:46:55.:47:04.

Sub-topics. Bathing too all the year round. The gulfstream is as warm as

:47:05.:47:10.

the Mediterranean, not August, remember. This is February.

:47:11.:47:12.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Jeremy Paxman.

A UN report demands the Vatican removes all clergy who are known or suspected child abusers. Plus, coding being taught in schools, banning strikes and Michael Vaughan on Kevin Pieterson.


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS