19/02/2014 Newsnight


19/02/2014

Jeremy Paxman has the latest on the 'truce' in Ukraine; phone hacking trial; fixed term parliaments; and how do you describe what colour is to an 11 year-old?


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streets of Kiev may be nearing an end, an hour and a bit ago the

:00:08.:00:13.

President of Ukraine claimed to have agreed what he called a truce with

:00:14.:00:23.

the leaders of the opposition for a realignment in the country. Will the

:00:24.:00:28.

protesters pack up and go home? Our reporter is in Kiev watching the

:00:29.:00:32.

scenes on the streets for us. And we will talk to one of the country's

:00:33.:00:36.

deputy prime ministers. How Tony Blair offered Rebekah Brooks and

:00:37.:00:42.

Rupert Murdoch a shoulder to cry on when the phone hacking scandal

:00:43.:00:47.

broke. How campuses in America is place of sexual danger for women,

:00:48.:00:51.

why some rape victims find college authorities the most unsympathetic

:00:52.:00:55.

of protectors. He told me he would have to be in the room with me when

:00:56.:01:00.

I testified, and he would get to ask me direct questions about what

:01:01.:01:07.

happened. And Alan Alda, also known as Hawkeye from MASH joins us from

:01:08.:01:12.

New York to explain why he's hunting for a scientist who can explain what

:01:13.:01:20.

colour is in terms of which a child can understand. He had remained

:01:21.:01:30.

adamant that there could be no compromise, but tonight President

:01:31.:01:35.

Yanukovych of Ukraine talked to leaders of the protest which have

:01:36.:01:38.

paralysed the capital of his country. Faced with promised

:01:39.:01:42.

sanctions from the European Union, vague threats from Washington and

:01:43.:01:46.

most of all by the possibility that a deteriorating situation could yet

:01:47.:01:51.

get much worse, his spokesman announced tonight that a truce had

:01:52.:02:01.

been agreed. Newsnight's in Kiev, we will talk after this.

:02:02.:02:05.

Independence Square is not the place it was. Yesterday 's death have

:02:06.:02:12.

shattered the status quo. Instead of singing songs, now they are smashing

:02:13.:02:19.

up the payment. -- pavement. Men and women, young and old alike.

:02:20.:02:30.

REPORTER: What are you doing? We are preparing weapons for the

:02:31.:02:34.

revolution. This woman is a middle-class office worker? We now

:02:35.:02:38.

have dozens of killed people so definitely a lot has changed. I have

:02:39.:02:43.

heard people talk about Civil War is that even possible? We are on the

:02:44.:02:47.

brink of that. We are quite close to that. Nearby another woman,

:02:48.:02:54.

carefully pouring petrol into a plastic bottle. But these are now

:02:55.:03:00.

ordinary Molotov cocktails, they are adding little crumbs of polystyrene,

:03:01.:03:06.

when lit they will act like napalm, a shower of burning plastic that

:03:07.:03:11.

clings to the skin. Not as sophisticated the weaponry the

:03:12.:03:14.

protesters themselves are up against perhaps, but no less effective. The

:03:15.:03:20.

west, they are trying to negotiate, to talk, but to talk with these

:03:21.:03:27.

people is not the option. They only understand force. You say you are

:03:28.:03:31.

not talking about violence and yet here people are preparing to use

:03:32.:03:35.

violence against the state, isn't that just going to make it worse?

:03:36.:03:39.

Well, you know, if someone punches you or is going to you know to shoot

:03:40.:03:44.

you what are you going to do. How will you protect yourself? (Gunfire)

:03:45.:03:51.

last night's violence was the worst in Ukraine's post-Soviet history.

:03:52.:03:55.

The propertiors were taken by surprise when after months in --

:03:56.:04:00.

protesters were taken by surprise when after months in control the

:04:01.:04:04.

riot police attacked, setting their tents alight. By this afternoon

:04:05.:04:08.

parts of Kiev looked like a warzone, the streets surrounding the

:04:09.:04:11.

parliament building scarred and deserted. Each side has accused the

:04:12.:04:18.

other of using live ammunition. The police have taken back some ground,

:04:19.:04:29.

the protestors' citadel has shrunk, but they are still here. Tonight we

:04:30.:04:33.

watched them reinforce their barricades, everyone knows this

:04:34.:04:37.

isn't finished yet. Despite talk of a truce, everyone here expects

:04:38.:04:43.

another onslaught. One protestor told me they were scared last night,

:04:44.:04:47.

but the really scary thing is now they have accepted the idea of

:04:48.:04:50.

violence. So the demonstrators have retreated,

:04:51.:04:55.

moving part of their operation away from the frontline. They are

:04:56.:05:01.

preparing for another busy night treating people here at the orthodox

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Cathedral. This is St Michael's. Under communism the place was blown

:05:09.:05:15.

up, Stalin had it dynamited. After the collapse of the Soviet Union it

:05:16.:05:19.

was rebuilt as a symbol of Ukraine's independence. Now this magnificent

:05:20.:05:25.

Cathedral has been turned into a makeshift hospital, giving treatment

:05:26.:05:30.

and shelt to people whom the Government cas "terrorists", the

:05:31.:05:34.

church is in open defiance of the state. TRANSLATION: It was like a

:05:35.:05:45.

battlefield says Alexander, who in more peaceful times is a humble GP.

:05:46.:05:53.

The police just smashed everything. Tonight we watched some riot

:05:54.:05:58.

policemen pull back from their newly-gained position, others soon

:05:59.:06:00.

replaced them. If this is a truce it is a very uneasy one indeed. Let's

:06:01.:06:08.

talk to Gabriel Gatehouse in Kiev for us now. Gabriel, what is the

:06:09.:06:14.

feeling there about whether this truce means anything? Around about

:06:15.:06:19.

the time that the truce was announced we heard a few volleys of

:06:20.:06:23.

firework, you can probably hear one just behind me there, that might

:06:24.:06:26.

have been a stun grenade. We have heard these gangs going off

:06:27.:06:29.

periodically throughout the evening, but no real fighting. So if this is

:06:30.:06:34.

what a truce is, then it is holding. One of the opposition leaders said

:06:35.:06:39.

apparently that Viktor Yanukovych, the President, has given an

:06:40.:06:43.

undertaking not to storm the square. That apparently is the content of

:06:44.:06:47.

this truce, they said they tried to find situation of stablising the

:06:48.:06:50.

situation, but they haven't said how they are going to do that. What is

:06:51.:06:55.

clear is Viktor Yanukovych is under huge international pressure today.

:06:56.:06:59.

We understand that the state department has found 20 names of

:07:00.:07:03.

people they want to restrict visas to, who they blame for the violence.

:07:04.:07:07.

We understand that the foreign ministers of France, Germany and

:07:08.:07:11.

Poland are already in Kiev and they are to have a meeting with Viktor

:07:12.:07:16.

Yanukovych tomorrow, before flying to Brussels to discuss again

:07:17.:07:19.

possible sanctions against those in the Government that they hold

:07:20.:07:22.

responsible for this violence. On the ground, the feeling very much is

:07:23.:07:26.

one of shock, how people are asking could things have turned so violent

:07:27.:07:32.

so suddenly with those 26 deaths. People can't understand it and very

:07:33.:07:36.

much on the square there is a feeling that this is not over yet.

:07:37.:07:41.

We will be back to you in a moment or two. A little earlier I spoke to

:07:42.:07:45.

one of Ukraine's most senior political figure, the vice Prime

:07:46.:07:49.

Minister, Kostyantyn Gryshchenko, we spoke to him just before the truce

:07:50.:07:53.

was announced. The Kremlin spokesman today

:07:54.:08:36.

described what was happening on the streets of your capital as an

:08:37.:08:42.

attempted coup. Is that how you see it? I see it as a very tense moment

:08:43.:08:49.

in our development as a free, democratic nation. What we face is

:08:50.:08:57.

the need for all the players to listen to each other, to understand

:08:58.:09:05.

what is the dangers which loom on these particular countries at this

:09:06.:09:10.

particular time and find a solution. , jointly. That is something we need

:09:11.:09:15.

to do together. Meaning the Government, the leaders of the

:09:16.:09:18.

opposition and the people whom the leaders of the opposition do not

:09:19.:09:22.

control. Isn't the obvious way to make a start on a settlement for

:09:23.:09:28.

President Yanukovych to put himself up for re-election and see what

:09:29.:09:36.

happens? Well for re-election or elections, regular or nap selections

:09:37.:09:42.

-- snap elections you need to have stability in society. You can't have

:09:43.:09:46.

elections under the barrel of a gun. You cannot really make it democratic

:09:47.:09:53.

and elections that will be accepted by the whole of the Ukraine. Do you

:09:54.:09:58.

worry about these threatened European Union sanctions? The need

:09:59.:10:06.

to listen to our international partners, be it in Europe or across

:10:07.:10:22.

the ocean we take into account But nobody can do the work for us, that

:10:23.:10:25.

is why we are making sure what we have to discuss among the political

:10:26.:10:29.

spectrum inside the country is not being compromised by whatever

:10:30.:10:34.

external factors either from the east or west. Gabriel Gatehouse is

:10:35.:10:48.

still with us in Kiev. Looking ahead, is it possible to make any

:10:49.:10:52.

prediction? It is interesting, you mentioned the sacking of the head of

:10:53.:10:55.

the army there with the Deputy Prime Minister. The one unspoken mostly

:10:56.:11:00.

fear on everyone's minds is the question of a Civil War here. Could

:11:01.:11:05.

this develop into something much worse. Now the sacking of the head

:11:06.:11:09.

of the army, they didn't give any reason for it, but it was preceded

:11:10.:11:14.

by some very interesting events. Last night while events were going

:11:15.:11:17.

on here in the square behind me, there was also reports that in some

:11:18.:11:22.

prove VIPGS cities, especially west of here, certain institutions and

:11:23.:11:27.

security installations had also come under pressure from protesters and

:11:28.:11:31.

had been taken over by some protestors. Later on today we saw a

:11:32.:11:37.

statement on the website of the Ministry of Defence. I think that's

:11:38.:11:41.

fireworks incidentally you can hear behind me that the protesters have

:11:42.:11:44.

been taken to firing at the police. A statement on the Ministry of

:11:45.:11:48.

Defence saying that the army reserved the right to go into

:11:49.:11:52.

antiterrorist operations. It seemed like a clear threat to get involved

:11:53.:11:57.

in this stand-off here. Very shortly after that, we saw the sacking of

:11:58.:12:02.

the army. Now whether that was to try to keep control of the military

:12:03.:12:05.

on the part of the President or to try to give yet another concession

:12:06.:12:09.

to the protesters, we don't really know. The feeling on the square is

:12:10.:12:14.

that President Yanukovych has pretty much given every single concession

:12:15.:12:19.

he could have given apart from the ultimate one which is to resign

:12:20.:12:24.

himself. That hasn't happened. The Old Bailey trial of two former

:12:25.:12:28.

editors of the News of the World heard an extraordinary e-mail read

:12:29.:12:30.

out today, in it Brooks Brookes Brooks, one of the two editors --

:12:31.:12:38.

Rebekah Brooks reported a conversation she had with Tony

:12:39.:12:40.

Blair. In the talk the former Prime Minister, now embarked on his

:12:41.:12:45.

post-abdication career of getting very rich, reassured her about how

:12:46.:12:49.

to handle the phone hacking scandal and offered to act as an unofficial

:12:50.:12:54.

adviser to Rupert Murdoch. We have the case now. First of all to give

:12:55.:12:58.

this a little bit of context, this e-mail was written on the 11th July

:12:59.:13:07.

to 2011. That is a week after the story of Milly Dowler's phone being

:13:08.:13:13.

hacked. It is the day after the last ever News of the World issue was

:13:14.:13:16.

published. This is right in the heart and heat of the crisis.

:13:17.:13:20.

Rebekah Brooks writes an e-mail to her boss at the time, James Murdoch,

:13:21.:13:29.

in which we recounts an hour-long conversation she had with Tony

:13:30.:13:33.

Blair. On the face of it he is simply offering advice on how to

:13:34.:13:36.

handle the crisis. He suggests setting up an independent inquiry

:13:37.:13:40.

which would investigate what had gone on. And then, this is the

:13:41.:13:44.

critical bit, according to Rebekah Brooks he says it would publish a

:13:45.:13:48.

hutten-style report. That is a reference to the review of the David

:13:49.:13:54.

Kelly case that got the BBC into hot water all that time ago. That could

:13:55.:13:59.

be seen as a marker of thoroughness and transparency or depending on

:14:00.:14:02.

which position you take, something quite different. He offered personal

:14:03.:14:06.

advice, he said "keep strong and definitely sleeping pills, need to

:14:07.:14:10.

have clear heads, remember no rash short-term solutions as they only

:14:11.:14:13.

give you long-term headaches", I wonder what he was thinking of

:14:14.:14:17.

there. He says it will pass and tough up. And rounding it off,

:14:18.:14:22.

according to the Brooks he offers personal counsel. He says that he,

:14:23.:14:27.

Tony Blair, is available for you, that is James Murdoch, KRM, Rupert

:14:28.:14:36.

Murdoch, and Rebekah Brooks as an unofficial adviser but it needs to

:14:37.:14:40.

remain between them. Four days later Rebekah Brooks resigns and four days

:14:41.:14:44.

later is arrested. Anything from Blair's office? The fact there was a

:14:45.:14:46.

conversation appears to be acknowledged. The fact I can see is

:14:47.:14:50.

there is no dispute about the contents of what it is alleged was

:14:51.:14:55.

said. Tony Blair, in fairness on his behalf, he had merely been given

:14:56.:14:59.

informal advice on crisis management, he had no personal

:15:00.:15:02.

reason to know the facts of the case. He was just giving advice. But

:15:03.:15:06.

look, I think the bigger question is, it won't be about the details,

:15:07.:15:09.

it will be about why he did it at all. We are just in the aftermath of

:15:10.:15:13.

the Milly Dowler revelation, which remember how shocking that was. The

:15:14.:15:17.

entire political establishment was convulsing, the police were in all

:15:18.:15:22.

sorts of do-dos because they hadn't investigated. It was duff times.

:15:23.:15:28.

Also on the same day the Labour leader at the end, Ed Miliband, is

:15:29.:15:30.

making a speech and giving press conferences calling for Rebekah

:15:31.:15:34.

Brooks to be sacked. Where are we in the case as a whole? Well, the

:15:35.:15:38.

prosecution was due to finish at Christmas. It is finishing this

:15:39.:15:42.

morning. It is all running quite late, and as a result the defence

:15:43.:15:46.

proper will start tomorrow. We expect Rebekah Brooks to take the

:15:47.:15:49.

stand at some point tomorrow morning. I should say both Rebekah

:15:50.:15:56.

Brooks and all the others deny all the charges against them. It is

:15:57.:15:59.

precisely one year two months and 16 days until we get the chance to

:16:00.:16:03.

decide which variety of Westminster all sorts or combination there of,

:16:04.:16:08.

we would like to have another crack at telling us what to do. The

:16:09.:16:12.

general election in May next year will be the first in the history of

:16:13.:16:16.

this country to come at the end of a fixed term parliament. The date has

:16:17.:16:20.

been publicly known for years. The arrangement was another pious

:16:21.:16:23.

promise from the Liberal Democrats about improving the way this country

:16:24.:16:27.

is governed. Some political reporters can hardly cope with their

:16:28.:16:32.

parliamentary recess withdrawal symptoms. Mathieu is one of them! --

:16:33.:16:40.

Emily Maitlis is one of them. Imagine if everything came to a

:16:41.:16:45.

stand still in Westminster? Imagine if the business of parliament just,

:16:46.:16:54.

well, stopped? The idea is unthinkable, or used to be until

:16:55.:16:59.

this. Measures will be brought forward to introduce fixed-term

:17:00.:17:04.

parliaments of five years. The length of a parliament, in other

:17:05.:17:07.

words, was passed into law, from that week in May 2010, we knew

:17:08.:17:12.

exactly when the next general election would be, barring the

:17:13.:17:16.

unforeseeable. A move some feel is now giving the whole political

:17:17.:17:22.

system a slight air of paralysis. It is Parkinson's Law that says work

:17:23.:17:25.

always expands to fill the time allotted to it. We have allotted

:17:26.:17:29.

five years and so the work has expanded to fill that time. There

:17:30.:17:33.

are week, months when parliament is not really doing much. It is not

:17:34.:17:39.

debating primary legislation, it is treading water, I'm not sure this is

:17:40.:17:44.

really good. I'm not sure, I think we have lost some of the tempo of

:17:45.:17:49.

politics that we need. Of course this has been an unusual parliament

:17:50.:17:54.

for other very different reasons, a two-party Government for one. It has

:17:55.:17:58.

dried up because of the coalition, what happened was, and this is the

:17:59.:18:02.

story influence, they went at it with a rush. Contrasting to thatch

:18:03.:18:09.

whore did things gradually, she was grabbed dualist in practice however

:18:10.:18:13.

revolutionary her rhetoric, or Tony Blair, who was gradualist in his two

:18:14.:18:19.

terms. He subsequently admitted he didn't do as much as he wanted in

:18:20.:18:23.

the first team. There is people like David Cameron and OK letter Letwin

:18:24.:18:29.

who go for it. That sense of urgency may have something to do with the

:18:30.:18:34.

coalition. Some Governments drag it on to the bitter end. A full

:18:35.:18:42.

five-year term is not unusual, John Major, Gordon Brown in 2010. It is

:18:43.:18:46.

more often the domain of unpopular or failing Government with no real

:18:47.:18:50.

sense of optimisim of what a general election would eventually bring.

:18:51.:19:06.

Remember Gordon Brown, and Jim Callaghan turning to song to explain

:19:07.:19:13.

why he wouldn't go to the polls. # There was I waiting at the church!

:19:14.:19:19.

! Jim Callaghan wasn't sure of the overall majority. But he made a

:19:20.:19:25.

famous speech at the TUC. # All at once he sent me round a

:19:26.:19:27.

note # Here's the very note

:19:28.:19:31.

# This is what he wrote # Can't get away

:19:32.:19:33.

# To marry you today # My wife won't let me

:19:34.:19:43.

Everyone was startled, what was he on about, then he said there

:19:44.:19:46.

wouldn't be an election this autumn. This was one of a select few MPs who

:19:47.:19:52.

at the time voted against the fixed-term parliament bill. This is

:19:53.:19:57.

a democratisation of our parliament. It weakens the power of parliament

:19:58.:20:00.

to hold the Government to account, because the Prime Minister has got

:20:01.:20:04.

tenure. There would never have been an election in 1974 when Ted Heath

:20:05.:20:09.

was got rid of during that miners' strike. We would never got rid of

:20:10.:20:17.

Harold Wilson in 1970. This system has grave disadvantages and it is,

:20:18.:20:21.

you know, there is enough disillusionment with politics as it

:20:22.:20:25.

is at the moment, it is always worse at the end of a five-year

:20:26.:20:28.

parliament. Whilst a fixed-term parliament brings welcome stability,

:20:29.:20:32.

critics say that comes at a price, making it much harder to hold the

:20:33.:20:35.

political class to account when they only need to start listening to the

:20:36.:20:43.

voters' voice a good four years in. Whitehall sources tell me less new

:20:44.:20:48.

legislation is coming through, it is all about implementation. There is

:20:49.:20:52.

also suggestion the next Queen's Speech may be delayed. Perhaps that

:20:53.:20:55.

is the core question, if fewer laws are passed in this land, would

:20:56.:21:00.

anyone really care? If we look across the channel at little old

:21:01.:21:07.

Belgium, from 2007-2011 for a period of four years, their political class

:21:08.:21:10.

couldn't agree on how to form a Government, so they didn't have one,

:21:11.:21:14.

they had no new law, and do you know what, the Belgian economy grew,

:21:15.:21:17.

while the European economy all around it was in turmoil. It was

:21:18.:21:22.

actually one of the most successful post-war Belgium administrations.

:21:23.:21:25.

Why? Because politicians stopped making new laws and introducing new

:21:26.:21:30.

regulations, many of the old regulations became redundant.

:21:31.:21:34.

Belgium prospered, perhaps a sign to be said not having politicians in

:21:35.:21:37.

Westminster making new laws all the time. So what about those people who

:21:38.:21:42.

thought fixed-term parliaments were a good idea? Earlier I spoke to Lord

:21:43.:21:48.

O'Donnell, head of the Civil Service at the time when the coalition was

:21:49.:21:53.

formed and fixed terms became law. Lord O'Donnell, who benefits from

:21:54.:21:58.

fixed-term parliaments? I think democracy benefits. First of all it

:21:59.:22:02.

is a fairer system. To me it is a ridiculous system that says actually

:22:03.:22:08.

the Government in power, the incumbent gets to choose when it has

:22:09.:22:11.

a general election as opposed to let's have one regularly on a fixed

:22:12.:22:16.

date. Doesn't it mean you can forget the voter when the election is over

:22:17.:22:21.

for five years? Quite the reverse. There has always been the case that

:22:22.:22:25.

people have had to worry about their performance throughout the life of

:22:26.:22:27.

the parliament, voters doesn't just react to what happened yesterday,

:22:28.:22:30.

they look back on the record of a whole parliament. I think

:22:31.:22:33.

Governments have got to do this. The difference is they are not allowed

:22:34.:22:38.

to say, oh well we are ahead in the polls now we will go for it as

:22:39.:22:41.

opposed to let's have a long-term plan, five-year plan to try to leave

:22:42.:22:47.

the country in a better place. What are the things that are done, the

:22:48.:22:50.

average length of parliament is four years. What are the great things

:22:51.:22:54.

that are done in this last year before we're allowed to decide

:22:55.:22:57.

whether we want to keep the Government? Precisely, it is a bit

:22:58.:23:01.

like, you know, if you ask me have fixed term parliaments been a

:23:02.:23:05.

success, I would say it is a bit like asking a six-month pregnant

:23:06.:23:08.

woman how is the childbirth process. We haven't even had one fixed term

:23:09.:23:14.

parliament yet. This one we didn't know it was going to be a fixed-term

:23:15.:23:17.

parliament before they passed the legislation. If I said as far as the

:23:18.:23:22.

average voter is concerned, you vote in 2010, no-one needs to pay me the

:23:23.:23:27.

slightest attention now until early 2015? I think, I really don't think

:23:28.:23:35.

voters are, nor are Governments that cynical. I think what voters will do

:23:36.:23:40.

when they come to the ballot booth, I hope rather more will turn up than

:23:41.:23:44.

we have seen in the past, that they will say they will assess the

:23:45.:23:47.

Government on the five-year term what have they done over the whole

:23:48.:23:54.

term. That is good. I will look to who they will elect over the four or

:23:55.:23:59.

five year term. They can still elect them to a shorter term of

:24:00.:24:04.

indeterminate duation? Of course, but the one thing I will say for

:24:05.:24:10.

civil the service it would be for Governments to take a long-term view

:24:11.:24:14.

of society that is not bad thing. When you look at this coalition and

:24:15.:24:22.

on a fixed term and a Government like Tony Blair's, which was better

:24:23.:24:25.

for the country? It is hard to assess that yet because remember the

:24:26.:24:27.

economic circumstances were completely different. When Tony

:24:28.:24:31.

Blair took over in 1997 the economy was doing well, the deficit was

:24:32.:24:35.

relatively small. This time coalition come in 11% deficit-to-GDP

:24:36.:24:46.

ratio, rising GDP. They took tough and unpopular decisions. They

:24:47.:24:50.

decided to go for welfare reform, health reform, education reform. The

:24:51.:24:54.

one thing you could say that I hadn't really anticipated was that

:24:55.:24:57.

people thought coalition would be a lowest common denominator. It

:24:58.:25:03.

certainly hasn't been that. This is a question that comes if you have

:25:04.:25:07.

been a very long time at the heart of Government. Compare it with the

:25:08.:25:12.

awful last years of Major and Brown? The final year of John Major, you

:25:13.:25:21.

are right, he had real problems with getting a majority because the Tory

:25:22.:25:24.

Party was split and it was hard to get legislation through. They didn't

:25:25.:25:27.

have a fixed date for the election, they were hanging on to see, well,

:25:28.:25:33.

can we, is something going to turn round. Simply with Gordon Brown you

:25:34.:25:37.

will remember all of the damage, I think, was caused by that on-off

:25:38.:25:43.

election issue. Well that's history. Thank you very much. What is time?

:25:44.:25:50.

At this point in the day you might well think life's too short to

:25:51.:25:54.

embark upon a question like that. Yet someone has do it some how and

:25:55.:25:58.

do it in terms that are relatively easy to understand. The question was

:25:59.:26:04.

last year's Flame Challenge, a competition initiated by the actor,

:26:05.:26:07.

Alan Alda, in which scientists are asked to explain a piece of complex

:26:08.:26:12.

science in a way that an 11-year-old can understand. This year's trying

:26:13.:26:16.

to find someone who can explain what is colour? I will be asking him why

:26:17.:26:23.

shortly. First we invited the BBC science presenter and an artist to

:26:24.:26:33.

have a go. Chloryl colour is the differences in how your eye sees

:26:34.:26:37.

light. For me I think the most important thing is that it adds a

:26:38.:26:42.

different dimension or layer to everything that you see. For example

:26:43.:26:47.

emotions can make you feel really happy or disturbed or very calm.

:26:48.:26:56.

They can also remind you of things in way that smell would. Imagine you

:26:57.:27:00.

are stood in a pitch black room, you can't see the colour of anything

:27:01.:27:04.

around you, you need to turn on the light. That is how you are going to

:27:05.:27:07.

be able to see the colours of things. So colour must be something

:27:08.:27:11.

to do with light. It is, in fact it is everything to do with light,

:27:12.:27:16.

because light comes in different colours. You know this from things

:27:17.:27:19.

like traffic lights, traffic sleights can be red, they can be --

:27:20.:27:24.

traffic lights can be red, green and amber, and light can be any colour

:27:25.:27:28.

at the rainbow, when you are looking at your red bag, it is white light

:27:29.:27:33.

shining on your bag and your bag is absorbing all that light and soaking

:27:34.:27:36.

it up. All the different colours are getting soaked up, except for red.

:27:37.:27:40.

The red light is bouncing off it and into your eyes. That is what makes

:27:41.:27:51.

your bag red. The actor Alan Alda, who set the challenge, joins us now

:27:52.:27:54.

from New York. We will come to the particular question of colour in a

:27:55.:27:58.

second. But this general mission of seeking to explain science, how

:27:59.:28:03.

important do you think it is? Oh I think it is crucial to us, it is

:28:04.:28:09.

getting more and more important because our lives are surrounded by

:28:10.:28:14.

science. We're like fish swimming in a sea of science. If we don't know

:28:15.:28:18.

what it is that we're living in, it is not so good for us. It is a

:28:19.:28:22.

little dangerous. We have to be able to ask good questions about it, and

:28:23.:28:25.

we have to be able to decide who gets funding for what science? And

:28:26.:28:30.

that needs knowledge to do that. Why do we need to understand how and why

:28:31.:28:39.

it works just because it is around us? Well for two reasons. One is

:28:40.:28:45.

that it affects us and sometimes we're afraid of the effect it is

:28:46.:28:51.

having on us. Should we be afraid or more afraid. And the other reason,

:28:52.:28:55.

maybe even more important, I think, is science is beautiful. It elevates

:28:56.:29:03.

you in spirit the way music and literature does. Why should we be

:29:04.:29:11.

denied that. We wouldn't say why museums with paintings in them, why

:29:12.:29:15.

no signs. Why are some scientists so bad at communicating the beauty in

:29:16.:29:20.

it then? Scientists are taught for a very good reason to keep emotion, to

:29:21.:29:25.

keep stories out of their work when they are doing science. And they are

:29:26.:29:28.

encouraged to use words with very special meanings. Because if you can

:29:29.:29:33.

say something that takes five pages to say in plain language, but you

:29:34.:29:38.

can say it in one word and your fellow scientist knows what you

:29:39.:29:41.

mean, you ought to use that language. We can't understand that,

:29:42.:29:45.

and we can only really keep up with what they are doing if they will

:29:46.:29:50.

tell us in story or immammings of things -- images of things in a way

:29:51.:29:54.

of talking that we are used to hearing. They have to learn, relearn

:29:55.:29:58.

what it is like to talk to people and figure out what they are

:29:59.:30:01.

thinking as they are talking to them. That is what I think any way.

:30:02.:30:06.

Do you really think that almost any scientific concept can be explained

:30:07.:30:20.

in terms Intelable succinctly -- intelligle and succinctly to

:30:21.:30:31.

11-year-olds? I have seen videos of 11-year-olds around the world

:30:32.:30:33.

judging this connest it. What is fun about this contest is the kids judge

:30:34.:30:37.

the scientists, that is something they love. It is for an 11-year-old

:30:38.:30:41.

kid to say that is a very good answer but it doesn't make it clear

:30:42.:30:51.

enough! That is terrific. The thing that most common complaint they have

:30:52.:30:54.

about the entries is there is not enough information in them. They are

:30:55.:30:57.

very serious about this. They want to understand it and they want it in

:30:58.:31:01.

terms that are familiar to them. But one kid said you can be funny when

:31:02.:31:07.

you are talking to us, but don't be silly, we are 11 not seven. They

:31:08.:31:11.

take it very seriously. The compo trois explanations we had

:31:12.:31:16.

there of what colour is -- the two explanations we had of what colour

:31:17.:31:22.

is, I hope you were able to see them. They were pretty clear, are

:31:23.:31:28.

they anywhere near making the grade as far as your contest is concerned,

:31:29.:31:34.

or is it not your concern but the 11-year-olds? It is 11-year-olds

:31:35.:31:39.

around the world. 22,000 have joined up to be judges of the contest. It

:31:40.:31:42.

sounded to me like they were very good the ones you played. If their

:31:43.:31:49.

they are scientists giving us -- if they are scientists giving those

:31:50.:31:55.

explanation, I hope they will go to the Flame Challenge website and

:31:56.:31:58.

hopefully they will win. The guy who won the first year's contest, it is

:31:59.:32:03.

so wonderful, he made a video that was about six or seven minutes long,

:32:04.:32:08.

wrote it, he acted in it, he animated it, wrote a song, played

:32:09.:32:11.

all the instruments and sang the song. He won the contest and was

:32:12.:32:17.

asked to be a producer of a children's television show on

:32:18.:32:20.

science, he offered me a job. This is great, I mean whoever did those

:32:21.:32:26.

videos could have a giant career out of this! Thank you. Going off to

:32:27.:32:35.

college or university is the start of independent life. Yet college

:32:36.:32:39.

students in America are among the most vulnerable group when it comes

:32:40.:32:41.

to rape or sexual assault, apparently. A White House report

:32:42.:32:45.

claims that one in five American women is the victim of a sex attack

:32:46.:32:50.

during their college days. Considering the millions in tertiary

:32:51.:32:54.

education, the total is likely very big. Many survivors say the

:32:55.:32:57.

universities themselves are failing to deal with the issue. The BBC's

:32:58.:33:04.

North America correspondent reports on the scale of the issue and how

:33:05.:33:15.

more victims a starting to speak up. We don't want to talk about it, but

:33:16.:33:19.

we have to. It is happening so often. My life in college was

:33:20.:33:23.

completely destroyed by something that was out of my control. And

:33:24.:33:27.

that's just an injustice I feel obligated to help remedy. Six years

:33:28.:33:34.

ago Julia Dixon was sexually assaulted on campus by a fellow

:33:35.:33:38.

student. She's speaking out about her experience for the first time. I

:33:39.:33:41.

thought that's never going to happen to me, I don't drink, I never drank,

:33:42.:33:48.

don't do drugs, I didn't go places where this happens. I was doing it

:33:49.:33:52.

right and being a good girl and it wasn't going to be me. Julia is one

:33:53.:33:57.

of a growing number of students filing complaints against their

:33:58.:34:00.

universities for the way they say their claims of sexual assault were

:34:01.:34:04.

dealt with. According to Government figures one in five women are

:34:05.:34:08.

sexually assaulted during their time in college or university. With a

:34:09.:34:12.

large majority of attacks commitmented by someone they already

:34:13.:34:16.

know. Survivors of rape on college campuses suffer from high levels of

:34:17.:34:24.

post-traumatic stress disorder, depressure. The rates of conviction

:34:25.:34:29.

are staggeringly low at 12%. Many say it is not coming forward that is

:34:30.:34:33.

a big hurdle to overcome, it is the response they get from the

:34:34.:34:39.

institutions they turn to for HECHLT Typically students who have been

:34:40.:34:42.

sexually assaulted seek help through the university system itself. Going

:34:43.:34:45.

to police on campus and college officials rather than taking their

:34:46.:34:50.

complaints outside. Julia says she received some support from the

:34:51.:34:54.

university in Ohio, in the immediate aftermath of the incident. Her taker

:34:55.:34:59.

denied the assault, and while campus Police investigated she tried to

:35:00.:35:03.

pursue him through the university's disciplinary process. This is where,

:35:04.:35:07.

she says, the problems began. They also told me that he would have to

:35:08.:35:11.

be in the room with me when I testified and he would get to ask me

:35:12.:35:15.

direct questions about what happened. And three days after he

:35:16.:35:23.

raped me I wasn't in any sort of emotional state to even be anywhere

:35:24.:35:27.

in the vicinity of him, let alone have a conversation with him about

:35:28.:35:32.

what he did. And their remedy to that was oh maybe he can have

:35:33.:35:37.

somebody there and ask the questions through them but he still has to be

:35:38.:35:41.

in the room. I said I'm sorry you can't expect me to go through with

:35:42.:35:46.

that right now, it was Friday and I was raped Tuesday. At that point I

:35:47.:35:51.

decided I will wait until my rape kit comes back because I know I'm

:35:52.:35:54.

telling the truth and then I can get him expelled. Unfortunately what I

:35:55.:35:58.

thought would take eight maybe ten weeks ended up taking over a

:35:59.:36:03.

year-and-a-half. And in that time there was, my hands were tied. I

:36:04.:36:06.

felt like there was nothing I could do. I felt completely helpless. What

:36:07.:36:10.

changes do you think your university and others across America need to

:36:11.:36:14.

really bring in to help survivors like yourself? I wish that the

:36:15.:36:17.

university would have taken into consideration the stress that I was

:36:18.:36:21.

very clearly suffering from. To me it felt like they didn't really know

:36:22.:36:24.

how to handle it and didn't care to try. I received no sort of help that

:36:25.:36:31.

semester, I had no assistance with my classes or excused absence, I was

:36:32.:36:35.

treated the same way as everyone else in my class was treated, but I

:36:36.:36:40.

was dealing with a very severe trauma. Last month President Obama

:36:41.:36:48.

launched a task force to address the issue of campus assault. The stigma

:36:49.:36:51.

around it means it is impossible to know the scale of the problem. The

:36:52.:36:55.

one in five figure released by the White House is based on several stud

:36:56.:37:00.

year, including research from 2007 in which seven thousand students at

:37:01.:37:04.

two large public universities from interviewed. Protecting young women

:37:05.:37:09.

and men from sexual violence and ensuring colleges do more to respond

:37:10.:37:12.

is now a priority at the highest level. My hope and intention is

:37:13.:37:17.

every college President who has not personally been thinking about this

:37:18.:37:23.

is going to hear about this report and is going to go out and figure

:37:24.:37:30.

out who is in charge on their campus of responding properly, what are the

:37:31.:37:34.

best practices. Are we doing everything we should be doing? If

:37:35.:37:38.

you are not doing that right now I want the students at the school to

:37:39.:37:41.

ask the President what he's doing or she's doing. These images are part

:37:42.:37:50.

of Project Unbreakable, and shows survivors of sexual assault

:37:51.:37:55.

photographed with quotes from their attackers. It is a sign of growing

:37:56.:38:00.

activism, more survivors are coming forward to share experiences and

:38:01.:38:04.

taking part in a national conversation. Universities judge it

:38:05.:38:08.

as an epidemic, they don't learn from each other, they treat it as a

:38:09.:38:13.

PR problem. Now we are more comfortable sharing our stories and

:38:14.:38:17.

organised and holding them account, now we are considered a force. This

:38:18.:38:20.

woman says she was sexually assaulted during her first year at

:38:21.:38:24.

university. In January 2013 she filed a FRARM could plaint against

:38:25.:38:30.

-- filed a federal complaint against her college. She is now one of the

:38:31.:38:33.

country's leading activists on the issue of college rape. Along with

:38:34.:38:37.

other survivors she set up a national advice and support network.

:38:38.:38:41.

In so many ways universities thinks they can contain it and deter it by

:38:42.:38:46.

you know making them do book report, by making them take time off. By

:38:47.:38:49.

making them just keep quiet. And they don't look at it as a holistic

:38:50.:38:53.

problem. They don't treat that person like a criminal. They treat

:38:54.:38:56.

that person like a student who made a mistake. And sexual assault is not

:38:57.:39:00.

a mistake, it has to go back to that. The US Department of

:39:01.:39:04.

education's office of civil rights, OCR, is currently investigating more

:39:05.:39:10.

than 35 complaints nationwide. Including the University of North

:39:11.:39:15.

Carolina Chapel Hill, awaiting the findings in its case. What we want

:39:16.:39:19.

at the end of the day is this policy to be read from both reporting

:39:20.:39:22.

party, responding party as being fair and balanced. In the past year

:39:23.:39:26.

the college has revised its policies and hired a new team to improve its

:39:27.:39:31.

response to sexual violence. Howard is Callum is the lead co-ordinator.

:39:32.:39:36.

. What we have done here has not been because of the OCR

:39:37.:39:40.

investigation, I think that the university recognised even before

:39:41.:39:44.

the complaints were filed that we needed to do things better and

:39:45.:39:49.

differently. We have taken a number of measures to provide increased

:39:50.:39:54.

support to survivors to improve its complaint processing system. To ramp

:39:55.:39:59.

up the education programmes. One of the biggest challenges is changing

:40:00.:40:04.

attitudes over what is and isn't acceptable sexual behaviour on many

:40:05.:40:08.

college campuses. This workshop is about giving students the confidence

:40:09.:40:13.

to speak up if they witness inaproper rate behaviour --

:40:14.:40:17.

inappropriate behaviour among their peers. If there is someone touching

:40:18.:40:22.

someone on the dance floor in a way that makes someone feel

:40:23.:40:25.

uncomfortable. Before you leave the house talking about behaviours and

:40:26.:40:28.

talking to friend about how much they are going to be drinking. To

:40:29.:40:32.

what extent do you think a macho culture means people don't want to

:40:33.:40:37.

step in? It is hard, people grow up with it. This is what they are

:40:38.:40:41.

taught from day one that men are, it is essentialism, men are a certain

:40:42.:40:46.

way and women are a certain way, men and women are supposed to act a

:40:47.:40:50.

certain way. That is one of the things we are indirectly trying tole

:40:51.:40:53.

change. The fact that you are supposed to pursue or think about

:40:54.:40:57.

sex in this way. Campaigners say conviction rates for

:40:58.:41:01.

cases of sexual assault on college campuses are still too low. Julia's

:41:02.:41:05.

one of the few survivors who did eventually get some justice through

:41:06.:41:09.

the legal system. By then I was a junior in college and I had lost a

:41:10.:41:13.

scholarship and I moved off campus and got a job to support the lack of

:41:14.:41:20.

scholarship that I had. And he had already left campus. In a statement

:41:21.:41:26.

to Newsnight the university in Ohio said.

:41:27.:42:05.

Unfortunately for the victim the rape is not a single act that

:42:06.:42:14.

happens one night. It is a long, enduring very depressing emotional

:42:15.:42:18.

rollercoaster that goes on potentially for years. I don't think

:42:19.:42:23.

the university understands that. My rape did not end the night that I

:42:24.:42:28.

went to the hospital. It ended the night that I finally got justice. If

:42:29.:42:32.

I wasn't granted that I think I would be still living in it. Now in

:42:33.:42:38.

the past hour Facebook has announced that it's going to buy the mobile

:42:39.:42:49.

instant messaging service What isapp, it is Facebook's biggest

:42:50.:42:53.

purchase to date. The app which has 450 million users is another way to

:42:54.:42:58.

send instant messages at no cost. But Facebook already has its own

:42:59.:43:06.

means of doing it. Why bother? Matt Butcher is editor of a tech

:43:07.:43:09.

magazine. Is this a big deal? We think this is the largest

:43:10.:43:13.

acquisition of an internet start-up, less than five years old in history.

:43:14.:43:18.

It looks, the way you see these prices going up, each time there is

:43:19.:43:21.

an acquisition, it looks like a bubble, doesn't it? Well, the issue

:43:22.:43:29.

here is that Facebook needs growth. Facebook has become, you know,

:43:30.:43:33.

something that your grandparents are on, everybody is on it now. But the

:43:34.:43:38.

kids and the young people are using messaging platforms like WhatsApp to

:43:39.:43:46.

interact.ment not using Facebook as much -- to interact. They are not

:43:47.:43:52.

using Facebook as much as before. It is much cheaper for people in Asia

:43:53.:43:57.

and Africa to contact each other using the app than any other way.

:43:58.:44:03.

450 million users huge. How will Facebook make money out of it?

:44:04.:44:07.

Facebook has done a very good job so far of pulling in revenues based on

:44:08.:44:12.

advertising, it is now doing things like commerce and e-commerce. The

:44:13.:44:18.

app will be doing similar kinds of things and also in virtual goods.

:44:19.:44:24.

People will pay a premium to message in particular ways or to use virtual

:44:25.:44:29.

goods as part of their messaging. What is using a virtual good as part

:44:30.:44:35.

of your messaging? Instead of using just text they might send picksures

:44:36.:44:48.

or those kinds of hings. Why did Facebook's share price shop on this

:44:49.:44:53.

news? Shareholders are worried that Facebook is buying growth rather

:44:54.:44:57.

than having growth internalised in its own company core strengths. It

:44:58.:45:01.

sends a signal to the market that perhaps Facebook doesn't have all

:45:02.:45:09.

the magic touch it once had. It puts Twitter pretty inch the shade

:45:10.:45:15.

doesn't it? Yes, it does. Of course Twitter did its own public market

:45:16.:45:18.

floatation and it has had some issues on the way. Since it floated.

:45:19.:45:25.

The jury is still out where be where Twitter goes from here and there was

:45:26.:45:37.

a lot of scepticism about recent results. One of the founders of the

:45:38.:45:43.

app is Ukrainian so interesting merging of stories. Tonight's Brit

:45:44.:45:47.

Awards saw an unexpected intrusion into the debate on Scottish

:45:48.:45:52.

independence by David Bowie who won the British Male Solo artist. He

:45:53.:46:00.

wasn't at the ceremony but used the supermodel Kate Moss to deliver the

:46:01.:46:05.

message. I'm completely delighted, I am, aren't I Kate? Yes. I think it

:46:06.:46:11.

is a great way to end the day. Thank y very, very much, and Scotland stay

:46:12.:46:18.

with us. And a quick look at some of tomorrow morning's front pages now.

:46:19.:46:27.

The Guardian has news of the Tony Blair intervention in the Rebekah

:46:28.:46:30.

Brooks court case. That's all from us tonight, I have

:46:31.:46:48.

one more thing to say, bouncing goats, look at this, good night!

:46:49.:46:56.

# High on a hill # Was a lonely goat herd

:46:57.:47:10.

# Le-ol-le-e-hiho Good evening. Some wind and rain,

:47:11.:47:47.

but that's going to happen overnight. I think tomorrow,

:47:48.:47:51.

especially in the afternoon the weather should be actually not all

:47:52.:47:55.

that bad, once the wind and rain clears out into the North Sea.

:47:56.:47:57.

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