27/03/2014 Newsnight


27/03/2014

Analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Laura Kuenssberg, including gay marriages, carbon emissions in oceans and Afghanistan war veterans.


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thanks to an invitation to a gay wedding. A poll says one in five of

:00:00.:00:20.

us would refusing to. As the new comes into force on Saturday, choirs

:00:21.:00:24.

and couples across England warm up for the big day. Being married by a

:00:25.:00:35.

gay Irish registrar and Britain's longest serving female black

:00:36.:00:39.

registrar, and that is happening in the heart of the country. That is

:00:40.:00:42.

what makes Britain great for me. Why do some people not want to witness

:00:43.:00:48.

the new kind of "I do". We know about global warming but are quash

:00:49.:00:52.

Bonn emissions turning our oceans into acid. These bubbles seep out of

:00:53.:01:02.

volcanic vents, this gives scientists a clue what oceans will

:01:03.:01:08.

look like as man made O2 gets dissolved into sea water everywhere.

:01:09.:01:14.

The trauma of Afghan war veterans as told by their children. He pulled me

:01:15.:01:19.

under the table and said take cover because the door banged and it made

:01:20.:01:21.

a loud noise like a bomb! . Good evening, witnesses to wedding

:01:22.:01:36.

ceremonies have been asked for centuries to support the happy

:01:37.:01:41.

couple with a rousing "we will". But for gay marriage, legal from

:01:42.:01:45.

midnight tomorrow t appears a sizeable chunk of the population

:01:46.:01:53.

would still say, "we will not". An exclusive poll said we would refuse

:01:54.:01:57.

to attend a friend or relative's wedding if it was to the same-sex.

:01:58.:02:04.

With the Archbishop's announcement that the church may be softening. Is

:02:05.:02:10.

it stubborn prejudice that refuses to disappear of the or has the law

:02:11.:02:15.

run ahead what some parts of society find difficult to accept. The music

:02:16.:02:28.

might be traditional, and the lyrics from the Middle Ages, but the event

:02:29.:02:33.

is very modern. This weekend the Fourth Choir, formed six months ago

:02:34.:02:38.

by members of London's gay community will be performing live at a series

:02:39.:02:43.

of events in the capital. 47 years after homosexuality was legalised,

:02:44.:02:48.

nine years after the first civil partnerships, same-sex couples are

:02:49.:02:51.

about to get the right to marry. One of the first couples to exchange

:02:52.:02:59.

vows will be John and his Spanish fiance Barnardo. Their wedding just

:03:00.:03:04.

past the stroke of midnight on Saturday is being filmed and

:03:05.:03:10.

broadcast next week on BBC London. When we get married tomorrow night

:03:11.:03:15.

it will be the first time in our history in the gay community you

:03:16.:03:19.

have total equality. But there is a long way to go in hearts and minds,

:03:20.:03:24.

there is homophobia there. We live a very boring, for us it is a

:03:25.:03:29.

contented life here, and when you read homophobic sort of comments in

:03:30.:03:32.

the newspaper, you listen to what people have to say about us, and the

:03:33.:03:39.

recent floods apparently because of gay marriage, this is a monster out

:03:40.:03:44.

there that doesn't exist. A poll for BBC five life -- BBC five live show

:03:45.:03:49.

just how far things have come on It was especially true of young

:03:50.:04:01.

voters. Eight out of ten supported gay marriage compared with 44% of

:04:02.:04:07.

over 65s. Four out of ten still don't see same-sex marriage equal to

:04:08.:04:13.

hetrosexual marriage. And 22% of British adults wouldn't

:04:14.:04:20.

attend a ceremony. It is only 22%, that is a huge change to 40 years

:04:21.:04:24.

ago when I was going to school and realised that I was gay. I think

:04:25.:04:29.

that's quite encouraging it is only 22%. For those 22%, they are missing

:04:30.:04:34.

great party. This change to the law still leaves some loose ends, it

:04:35.:04:39.

won't be possible to convert a civil partnership into full marriage until

:04:40.:04:43.

next year. As things stand same-sex couples will still struggle to get

:04:44.:04:47.

married in most churches. In an interview with the Guardian

:04:48.:04:50.

tomorrow, the Archbishop of Canterbury will signal he accepts

:04:51.:04:54.

gay marriage will soon be law and says he will not resist the change,

:04:55.:04:59.

but Anglican Clergy will still be banned from conducting same-sex

:05:00.:05:03.

ceremonies. Sharon Ferguson is the Pastor of the metropolitan community

:05:04.:05:13.

church a non-C of E congregation. It is sad for members of the lesbian

:05:14.:05:18.

gay and Christian movement who are members of the Church of England. It

:05:19.:05:21.

is sad for them, whilst they could go to other churches who are

:05:22.:05:24.

registered, they are not going to be able to get married within the

:05:25.:05:27.

church where they perhaps regularly worship. And that is a sad

:05:28.:05:32.

situation. It is very sad for the priests within the Church of England

:05:33.:05:35.

who would like to be able to marry members of their congregation as

:05:36.:05:40.

well. This Saturday is then an important date for the gay rights

:05:41.:05:44.

movement, a time of celebration for many. But the day when same-sex

:05:45.:05:49.

marriage really means completely equal marriage may still be some way

:05:50.:05:58.

off. With us to talk about this tonight are my guests. Melanie, this

:05:59.:06:04.

poll suggests there is a sizeable minority of people who just wouldn't

:06:05.:06:08.

go to a gay wedding. Why do you think that is the case? Speaking for

:06:09.:06:17.

myself I'm very much in favour of going to a party, and never

:06:18.:06:21.

knowingly turn down a wedding invitation, but if one is opposed to

:06:22.:06:24.

the principle of gay marriage it would be a bit hypocritical to go to

:06:25.:06:28.

the ceremony. You clearly would not attend a gay wedding, even if it was

:06:29.:06:33.

from a close relative or a good friend? As I say I would be loathe

:06:34.:06:38.

to turn down a fabulous party but I think it would be hypocritical if I

:06:39.:06:42.

were to do so because I have an objection in principle to the notion

:06:43.:06:50.

of gay marriage, though I would perfectly happily attend a civil

:06:51.:06:54.

partnership ceremony. Is it the reality that politicians pushed

:06:55.:06:57.

through this legislation for gay marriage specifically at such a

:06:58.:07:01.

speed that some parts of society just haven't been willing yet to

:07:02.:07:05.

accept that. And they have the right not to? They have the right not to,

:07:06.:07:11.

they perfectly have the right not to go to celebrate the relationships,

:07:12.:07:17.

the family bonds of even people they know very well. That's people's

:07:18.:07:24.

liberty. Certainly politicians sometimes push something through

:07:25.:07:27.

that they believe is right, even if they don't think that everybody is

:07:28.:07:33.

with them. Even if they think that it's a minority this is going to

:07:34.:07:38.

benefit. But in this case the politicians I believe took the view

:07:39.:07:46.

this it wasn't going to affect every member of society, it was going to

:07:47.:07:51.

affect a small minority, a relatively small minority about 10%

:07:52.:07:55.

of the population, but for those people it is going to change their

:07:56.:07:59.

lives, it really is. For the rest of the population who it is going to

:08:00.:08:03.

affect them indirectly or it might not affect them at all. I think they

:08:04.:08:08.

just did the right thing. Why do you think there are still a sizeable

:08:09.:08:12.

chunk of society, a sizeable chunk like Melanie who wouldn't want to go

:08:13.:08:16.

because they still object? I think it is unfamiliarity to be honest, in

:08:17.:08:25.

most cases I think it is unfamiliarity. It would be

:08:26.:08:29.

interesting to see if the 22%, if they had spent time or related to

:08:30.:08:35.

gay person. But for Melanie it is not familiarity it is an objection

:08:36.:08:40.

to the principle, there are still many people still object to the

:08:41.:08:43.

principle? People are entitled to their own principles, people don't

:08:44.:08:47.

have to go to parties. I really don't mind Melanie's freedom of

:08:48.:08:52.

speech, she can protest against my wedding outside my wedding if she

:08:53.:08:56.

wants, we will bring her out a Di Canio pay. Melanie sometimes -- A

:08:57.:09:03.

canepe. Isn't it up to politicians to lead public opinion? I think also

:09:04.:09:11.

they have to saying could go conthis sans of -- cognissance of the people

:09:12.:09:17.

too, and he was out-of-touch with his own party and even his own

:09:18.:09:22.

mother. Plenty of people opposed the idea of giving people the vote and

:09:23.:09:26.

divorce law, minorities can't always get their way? I'm in entirely in

:09:27.:09:32.

favour of politicians acting on principle, one could only hope they

:09:33.:09:35.

did so more often. You are suggest ago principle when it is one you

:09:36.:09:39.

agree with. Do you accept the status of gay relationship is the same in

:09:40.:09:43.

status as that between a man and a woman? No, because it lacks the

:09:44.:09:49.

potential fruitfulness of a hetrosexual relationship, which

:09:50.:09:51.

isn't to say it isn't a good and valuable thing in itself, but it

:09:52.:09:55.

lacks that element which is fundamental to matterage. --

:09:56.:10:01.

Marriage. That is something I can't engage with, there are very happy

:10:02.:10:07.

marriages of all sorts that have no prospect of fruitfulness. But how do

:10:08.:10:12.

you feel tonight when this is the law that is changing tomorrow at

:10:13.:10:18.

midnight when you still hear that? I'm very relaxed about difference of

:10:19.:10:23.

opinion, so long as this difference of opinion doesn't then descend and

:10:24.:10:27.

presume to tell me how I may live my life with my husband. Briefly who

:10:28.:10:32.

has had an invite yet? I haven't, oddly enough. Maybe that is my

:10:33.:10:39.

reckless and friends going on living in sin, I don't know. Melanie, even

:10:40.:10:43.

the receptions not the first part of the ceremony? Tragically not even to

:10:44.:10:51.

a civil partnership which I would like to attend very much. One can

:10:52.:10:56.

wish people well in their relationships even if one stops at

:10:57.:11:00.

celebrating and reworking the institution. Thank you for coming

:11:01.:11:03.

in. It will be facinating to see how this all unfolds. 15 years of

:11:04.:11:08.

privatisation and we still haven't got it right. It is not much

:11:09.:11:12.

surprise to energy customers staggered by rises in their bills.

:11:13.:11:16.

But should we be puzzled that the energy regulator seems to have just

:11:17.:11:20.

cottoned on to the fact that the market doesn't work that well.

:11:21.:11:23.

Politicians have been falling over themselves to welcome the idea of

:11:24.:11:27.

investigating the big six energy companies. But Ofgem's review of the

:11:28.:11:31.

sector doesn't really tell us that much we didn't know. Is our policy

:11:32.:11:37.

editor asking why start another investigation now, could it just be

:11:38.:11:41.

a political fix? More to the point perhaps is it a good idea? We like

:11:42.:11:54.

competition, it is supposed to bring the best out of people. It is meant

:11:55.:11:59.

to create fitter, faster and crucially leaner specimens. But in

:12:00.:12:05.

the energy market it hasn't quite had the effects that some had hoped

:12:06.:12:15.

for. Between 2009 and 2013 energy prices rose by 24%. Over the same

:12:16.:12:22.

period, other prices only rose by 1%. Profit margin force the so

:12:23.:12:28.

called "big six" energy companies rose too, from under 1% on sales of

:12:29.:12:34.

gas and electricity up to 4. 3%, hardly scandalous numbers, but it is

:12:35.:12:40.

a sustained rise. That's why, as you will know unless you have been

:12:41.:12:43.

living without power for the last year, energy has become a major

:12:44.:12:49.

political flash point. Ed Miliband, the Labour leader, has promised to

:12:50.:12:54.

freeze prices for 20 months while he holds major reforms of the energy

:12:55.:12:58.

market. But today, Ofgem, the independent energy regulator has

:12:59.:13:02.

gone ahead of him. It has asked the competition authorities to hold an

:13:03.:13:06.

investigation into the energy markets. What will they be looking

:13:07.:13:10.

at? In an ideal world you will have some competition in the market and

:13:11.:13:16.

some switching between pliers suppliers, that should drive down

:13:17.:13:23.

prices for everyone. But energy companies use sophisticated analysis

:13:24.:13:27.

to understand different behaviours for different groups of customers.

:13:28.:13:31.

When they work out that a certain group of customers are unlikely to

:13:32.:13:34.

switch under any circumstances, they charge them a high price. And for

:13:35.:13:37.

the customers they think are likely to switch they offer them a very low

:13:38.:13:41.

price, what actually happens is you have a competitive market that only

:13:42.:13:49.

some get the benefit of. There are barriers for smaller independent

:13:50.:13:51.

companies that want to enter the market. Not least that with almost

:13:52.:13:56.

two thirds of people never having consciously switched suppliers they

:13:57.:14:00.

struggle to grow. Some companies also find they can make more money

:14:01.:14:05.

if they stay small. That all means there is a lack of new competitors

:14:06.:14:10.

and that might be why Ofgem suspects so called "tacit co-ordination"

:14:11.:14:16.

between the big six. That doesn't mean that Ofgem thinks the major

:14:17.:14:19.

energy suppliers are running some sort of cartel, it is just that

:14:20.:14:25.

without effective competition they tend to move a little bit more like

:14:26.:14:28.

a pack than they ought to, and don't do enough jostling for new

:14:29.:14:33.

customers. That is why, Ofgem suspect, they are quite fast to put

:14:34.:14:39.

up prices when costs rise, and pretty slow to pass on savings when

:14:40.:14:48.

the prices fall. This is nothing new, it helps the Government and

:14:49.:14:51.

causes a problem for Labour, it makes it harder for them to campaign

:14:52.:14:57.

on energy, some are suspicious. Unfortunately Ofgem have appeared to

:14:58.:15:01.

have bowed to both political and media pressure to be seen to be

:15:02.:15:05.

doing something. Which is understandable that they have done

:15:06.:15:10.

that, but it does undermine both their credibility as an independent

:15:11.:15:15.

regulate to and it does I'm afraid damage independent economic

:15:16.:15:19.

regulation for the UK. Government insiders deny actively pushing

:15:20.:15:24.

Ofgem, they say the regulator feels it should have held this review

:15:25.:15:28.

years ago. But some energy companies say it is going to cause them

:15:29.:15:32.

trouble. Centrica has told journalists today that plans to

:15:33.:15:37.

invest in gas-pyred powertation -- gas-fired power stations have been

:15:38.:15:45.

delayed. We wouldn't want to delay diversing in a few years time. Our

:15:46.:15:52.

investors would naturally want us to wait and see the outcome of this

:15:53.:15:58.

review. Of course Centrica is one of the regins energy market champions.

:15:59.:16:03.

Unsurprisingly smaller companies who have much more to win from easier

:16:04.:16:08.

competition are a lot keener on a review that might give them just

:16:09.:16:16.

that. Earlier I went to speak to the new boss of the regulator, Ofgem,

:16:17.:16:21.

Dermot Nolan. Given your report does not come up with new analysis and

:16:22.:16:25.

talk about persistent problems, either job Geoff just hasn't --

:16:26.:16:30.

Ofgem hasn't been doing its job and there should have been an inquiry

:16:31.:16:33.

much, much earlier or this is a result of political pressure? This

:16:34.:16:36.

is nothing to do with political pressure. I would like to stress

:16:37.:16:39.

very clearly this is three independent organisation, three

:16:40.:16:41.

independent boards, all looking at the evidence, all forming the view

:16:42.:16:46.

and coming to a very clear and unambiguous answer that the market

:16:47.:16:49.

is not working well. But a few months ago there were plenty of

:16:50.:16:54.

insiders in the industry who believed your review wouldn't turn

:16:55.:16:57.

up very much new. You haven't turned up very much new, what is new is

:16:58.:17:01.

that last month the Secretary of State wrote a very public letter

:17:02.:17:05.

saying that he wanted there to be a reference. If that isn't political

:17:06.:17:09.

interference and pressure what is? What is the case is that the

:17:10.:17:13.

evidence is persistent, I want to stress that, persistent, clear,

:17:14.:17:17.

easily meets the test in our view for a market reference. Persistent

:17:18.:17:20.

evidence over time that competition is not working effectively. The

:17:21.:17:23.

Secretary of State wrote, the Secretary of State is perfectly

:17:24.:17:25.

entitled to many reviews Today energy companies have said

:17:26.:17:48.

they will move out of other projects. You will note most of the

:17:49.:17:52.

companies will welcome the view. That is because they thought it was

:17:53.:17:56.

inevitably going to happen? They offered it as an opportunity to

:17:57.:17:59.

state their case and make sure the competition is effective. They will

:18:00.:18:02.

have every opportunity to make their case. Investors like certainty and

:18:03.:18:07.

will need to be reassured that consumer trust is still in the

:18:08.:18:10.

market. That is very much the right thing. We are taking actions to make

:18:11.:18:13.

sure the lights stay on in the short-term in any case. To make sure

:18:14.:18:18.

the lights stay on in ten, 20, 50 years at affordable prices it will

:18:19.:18:22.

what the review will help. Some politician, particularly Labour this

:18:23.:18:25.

morning, are suggesting that the fact after years there should be a

:18:26.:18:29.

reference, suggests that Ofgem has basically failed in its job, there

:18:30.:18:34.

should be a replacement, Ofgem has wasted years, this review should

:18:35.:18:38.

have taken place a long time ago? Ofgem has not wasted years at all.

:18:39.:18:44.

It has put in place good recommendation that is will improve

:18:45.:18:48.

consumer experience and engagment. Not if it is allowed this

:18:49.:18:53.

anti-competitive behaviour to go on? It has seen a consistent pattern,

:18:54.:18:57.

that is why the markets authority set up in legislation to look at the

:18:58.:19:02.

very issues, was set up to say if a market isn't working well it should

:19:03.:19:05.

be referred to the competitions and markets authority. What consumers

:19:06.:19:09.

don't like is high prices. And high prices have been driven in the main

:19:10.:19:13.

by the rise in wholesale gas prices and there is nothing that a

:19:14.:19:17.

competition review can do about that. Two things on that I

:19:18.:19:21.

absolutely accept that the main driver of electricity prices is

:19:22.:19:24.

fossil fuel price, that is something we can't effect, it is something we

:19:25.:19:29.

are stuck -- affect, that is something we are struck with. This

:19:30.:19:32.

review won't affect prices in the main? It will, given the fact we

:19:33.:19:37.

can't affect fossil fuel prices it is more incumbent on us to

:19:38.:19:40.

concentrate the resources on the areas of price we can affect. All

:19:41.:19:46.

the suggestions that effective competition can drive prices. A

:19:47.:19:51.

final thought, given that prices are some of the lowest for UK consumers

:19:52.:19:57.

in Europe. We pay some of the cheapest price, do consumers have to

:19:58.:20:02.

wise up? No, as I said earlier, consumers I understand, we listened

:20:03.:20:05.

to them, they are concerned about the scale of increases. They don't

:20:06.:20:09.

trust the sector so they need that confidence restored. That confidence

:20:10.:20:13.

can be restored best through an independent, thorough and exhaustive

:20:14.:20:17.

process. But prices will go on going up any way, what is the point?

:20:18.:20:22.

Prices may go up, it depends on fossil fuels. We need to bear down

:20:23.:20:26.

on the areas of price West can affect. If we can drive those down

:20:27.:20:30.

consumers will have more trust. Thank you very much indeed.

:20:31.:20:34.

We're used to hearing politicians and bunked pundits talk about

:20:35.:20:45.

climate change. But we have an alarm now about C O2 in the seas.

:20:46.:20:50.

Scientists say the gas in the oceans are turning it to acid, at levels

:20:51.:20:57.

not seen for 300 million years. As we discovered that means danger for

:20:58.:21:07.

life under the water. These bubbles are poisoning the sea. They are

:21:08.:21:15.

carbon dioxide, as they dissolve they make carbonic acid. This unique

:21:16.:21:23.

site off the tip of Papua New Guinea is nature's warning as humans pump

:21:24.:21:27.

out more and more C O2, because it is clear that many creatures won't

:21:28.:21:38.

survive. These bubbles seep out of volcanic vents and they are making

:21:39.:21:42.

the water here much more naturally acidic. This spot gives scientist as

:21:43.:21:46.

clue as to what the world's oceans will look like. As emissions of man

:21:47.:21:56.

made CO2 continues to get dissolved into sea water everywhere.

:21:57.:22:03.

We have been invited to join a scientific research boat on a

:22:04.:22:08.

journey to the volcanic vents. We're not the only ones curious. Sea water

:22:09.:22:16.

is already about 30% more acidic since we started burning fossil

:22:17.:22:21.

fuels. That could be five times worse by the end of the century. It

:22:22.:22:27.

is bad news for this part of the ocean the coral triangle, the most

:22:28.:22:36.

deverse ecosystem in the seas. The impact of rising emissions will fall

:22:37.:22:43.

on countries like Papua New Guinea, which rely on the coral for a

:22:44.:22:49.

living. With a dawning awareness of its own fragile environment. The

:22:50.:22:55.

research team arrive at the island with its own volcano, right on what

:22:56.:23:00.

is known as the Pacific ring of fire. But first they need permission

:23:01.:23:10.

from the villagers for their research, they own the reef. The

:23:11.:23:15.

bubbles here they are carbon dioxide, it is clean but a gas that

:23:16.:23:19.

is also in the air, and especially if person countries burn so much

:23:20.:23:23.

fuel and coal there is more of this gas in the air and it goes into the

:23:24.:23:36.

ocean. Welcome. Katerina is the expedition leader, she's collecting

:23:37.:23:41.

samples from the boulder corals, they are stuff enough to cope with

:23:42.:23:47.

high CO2, she's also laying a tape, starting at the volcanic events and

:23:48.:23:50.

stretch ago I way to the point where the effect of the bubbles has

:23:51.:23:55.

disappeared. Here it is. You don't need a science degree to see the

:23:56.:24:03.

difference. These spectacular corals provide shelter for juvenile fish.

:24:04.:24:07.

They can't survive under conditions of high CO2. We are losing a lot of

:24:08.:24:14.

biodiversity, coral reefs are really suffering, and they are built out of

:24:15.:24:20.

calcium cabonate which is highly sensitive to more acidic waters.

:24:21.:24:25.

Once we lose the structure in it we are losing the biodiversity. Another

:24:26.:24:31.

experiment, dislodging boxes they fix today the seabed two years ago.

:24:32.:24:37.

The boxes are designed to attract creatures looking for a home. This

:24:38.:24:43.

site has the level of CO2 expected in all the oceans for the end of the

:24:44.:24:50.

century. The experimental boxes come on shore for analysis. They will use

:24:51.:24:58.

DNA testing to establish how many species have taken up residence. We

:24:59.:25:02.

need to work very quickly here, because a lot of the creatures here

:25:03.:25:06.

are releasing toxins out as we speak, and those toxins are killing

:25:07.:25:11.

the creatures living in the sampling device and we are losing their DNA.

:25:12.:25:16.

She can make a preliminary assessment just by looking. I'm

:25:17.:25:22.

extremely surprised by how poor this is. Usually I'm used to seeing a lot

:25:23.:25:28.

of groups, so a lot of different crabs and a lot of different

:25:29.:25:34.

mollesc. Here I only see a few. A day later s examples the sample from

:25:35.:25:40.

the unpolluted site. Today this tray is full of organism, lots of

:25:41.:25:47.

different species. They are all different, it is very diverse this

:25:48.:25:53.

tray. All the species are the building blocks of the diversity of

:25:54.:25:57.

the reef and the base of the food chain. The tiny features will have

:25:58.:26:01.

their DNA established back in the lab, so the work is not finished.

:26:02.:26:06.

But it is a warning, a warning that's welcomed by the people in the

:26:07.:26:08.

frontline. The rich world is slowly wake to go

:26:09.:26:39.

what they call the other carbon problem. I have tracked the acid

:26:40.:26:44.

oceans story for a decade now, it is still largely unknown to the public,

:26:45.:26:48.

but some Governments are taking notice. In Townsville on the

:26:49.:26:54.

north-east coast of Australia, a new centre researches the impact on the

:26:55.:27:00.

seas of high CO2, this research facility uses industrial technology.

:27:01.:27:03.

This is a brand-new build to go try to address the issue of ocean

:27:04.:27:11.

acidcation. It helps her to further her experiments from the field. We

:27:12.:27:15.

still know very little about what it does to the different life stages

:27:16.:27:19.

and we can use the organisms we are keeping here, put them under

:27:20.:27:24.

controlled conditions and then test what temperature and what ocean

:27:25.:27:33.

carbon does to the organisms. We can manipulate the nutrients, the carbon

:27:34.:27:38.

eye dock side in the -- dioxide in the water and in a fairly controlled

:27:39.:27:43.

way. Many species will lose under the changes to come, but seaweed

:27:44.:27:48.

will gain, and that is not all. Our hypothesis is as corals decline,

:27:49.:27:53.

sponges may do better. This tiny animal here is a one-year-old

:27:54.:27:58.

sponge, and this sponge is jam packed with tiny microscopic

:27:59.:28:02.

bacteria that contribute to the nutrition of the animal. What we are

:28:03.:28:09.

proposing is this bacteria may photo syntesise more under CO2 enabling

:28:10.:28:15.

them to grow faster and do better in the CO2 world. It sounds like a good

:28:16.:28:20.

thing for the ecosystem? It depends, they essentially filter the reef,

:28:21.:28:24.

and if there is contaminants they can be sensitive to that, they are

:28:25.:28:27.

filtering all the compounds out of the water. They can also

:28:28.:28:31.

potentionally, if there is a huge biomass of sponges create what we

:28:32.:28:35.

all feeding shadow, areas where they have removed all the nutrients out

:28:36.:28:40.

of the water, which wouldn't provide sufficient nutrition for other

:28:41.:28:43.

animal who is live on the reef. As the scientists are finding, once you

:28:44.:28:47.

start shifting the brick that is build an ecosystem, it is immposible

:28:48.:28:52.

to say exactly what will happen. On the boat they are working late to

:28:53.:28:57.

try to wrap up today's experiments. Scientists have made enough progress

:28:58.:29:01.

already in this new field of research to know that CO2 will bring

:29:02.:29:08.

enormous changes on the oceans. What I know as a scientist is what we are

:29:09.:29:14.

recording here is pure chemistry and physics. The carbon dioxide in the

:29:15.:29:19.

air is going into the ocean and making the ocean more acidic,

:29:20.:29:23.

because it is one chemical of carbon eye dock side and one of water it

:29:24.:29:27.

forms carbonic acid. We know what we are doing, it is

:29:28.:29:46.

time to wake up to the reality that we just can't continue as we do

:29:47.:29:55.

today. For more than 10,000 troops at its peak to now just two bases

:29:56.:30:00.

remaining in Helmand Province where much of the war's worst fighting has

:30:01.:30:04.

taken place, British forces have been involved in Afghanistan for 13

:30:05.:30:09.

years, 448 have died. Operations will finish by the end of this year.

:30:10.:30:13.

But the experiences of those who fought will stay with them and with

:30:14.:30:19.

their families and their children. The BBC's children's programme,

:30:20.:30:22.

newsround, has been hearing some of their stories, here are Nathanal and

:30:23.:30:37.

Ellie. My brother he was searching for IEDs and he was going along a

:30:38.:30:46.

bridge and he stood on one and got blown up. We got to see him in

:30:47.:30:50.

intensive care. I remember walking in and just thinking it was all a

:30:51.:30:59.

bad dream that and I would wake up soon. It just kicked in and it was

:31:00.:31:04.

really emotional. I couldn't believe that he was there, my brother,

:31:05.:31:10.

laying in a coma. It is unbearable when you walk in there and see him.

:31:11.:31:18.

He didn't look like he was going to make it at all. I don't understand

:31:19.:31:25.

why we went into Afghanistan, because so many people have either

:31:26.:31:29.

died or been injured out there. I don't understand why we had to go

:31:30.:31:35.

over there in the first place. When he's by himself, when he thinks that

:31:36.:31:42.

no-one can see he's pretty down. You can't really see any physical

:31:43.:31:46.

injuries on my dad, but he suffers with mind injuries, because of what

:31:47.:31:50.

he has been through in the war. When he came back from the army I found

:31:51.:31:56.

it hard to cope because every time there was a loud noise or like the

:31:57.:32:02.

wind or anything like that, he would shut the doors through the house, if

:32:03.:32:06.

there was a window open he pulled me under the table one time and said

:32:07.:32:12.

"take cover", because the door banged and it made a loud noise like

:32:13.:32:19.

a bomb. He used to scream in his sleep and shout. I would wake up and

:32:20.:32:25.

think "my dad's a freak". He found a way of coping with it and it was to

:32:26.:32:39.

put a war film on or a loud film. He had to sleep with the film on to be

:32:40.:32:43.

in that atmosphere again. The thing I struggled with is he wouldn't talk

:32:44.:32:48.

to me about it. He doesn't really show emotions, he never cries. His

:32:49.:32:58.

saying is "the weak only cry". With us now is retired Brigadier Mike

:32:59.:33:05.

Griffiths, the former director of personnel for the British Army, who

:33:06.:33:09.

lost his own son in the war on Afghanistan. And went on to train

:33:10.:33:16.

visiting officers who break the news to friends and family. We have heard

:33:17.:33:21.

how profoundly the families are affected. And you have seen this on

:33:22.:33:28.

both sides. Yes I have. My son was wounded in Afghanistan in 2010. He

:33:29.:33:38.

survived the IED and was flown home. Rather like you saw in the film

:33:39.:33:42.

became back to the ICU in Birmingham where he lived for 12 days and sadly

:33:43.:33:47.

succumbed to his injuries on the 5th of September 2010. I have seen that

:33:48.:33:51.

side and I have also been on the knock when somebody has come to your

:33:52.:33:54.

door to tell you that your son has been hurt. How did you find out? I

:33:55.:34:00.

was actually on leave and my wife was about to go out the door to

:34:01.:34:05.

work, she's a midwife. And there was a knock on the door and it was my

:34:06.:34:08.

boss, he was stood there, and there was absolutely no reason for him to

:34:09.:34:12.

be there. As soon as I saw him I knew it was going to be bad news. In

:34:13.:34:17.

fact the bad news was bad, but actually he was alive, he was in

:34:18.:34:21.

surgery and he had a fighting chance. So from immense low we

:34:22.:34:26.

picked ourselves up, prepared to go to Birmingham because there was

:34:27.:34:32.

still hope. And then once he was in hospital you were there obviously as

:34:33.:34:37.

a military man, but as a father, a family member, presumably before

:34:38.:34:42.

anything else? Oh definitely, and Andrew flew home with Darren who was

:34:43.:34:48.

wounded the day before in the same company. The family were all there

:34:49.:34:52.

too and many other families. But of course we were close because our

:34:53.:34:56.

boys had been together and had been wounded almost on the same day. So,

:34:57.:35:00.

yes you are, you are just a father, you are part of a machine that picks

:35:01.:35:05.

you up and looks after you, amazingly well I have to say. They

:35:06.:35:09.

took the load off us so we could concentrate on one thing, and one

:35:10.:35:13.

thing only, which was Andrew. And then you spent your professional

:35:14.:35:16.

time trying to train others to help families more effectively. But how

:35:17.:35:21.

do you prepare people for that knock, how do you cope with that

:35:22.:35:27.

doing the knock from the other side? The army has taken the view that we

:35:28.:35:33.

do it by regimental systems, so that when the person comes to the house

:35:34.:35:38.

they are from the same unit, the same organisation as the man or

:35:39.:35:42.

woman who has been injured or indeed has died. And so what you have got

:35:43.:35:47.

automatically is the regimental family helping to support people

:35:48.:35:51.

through it. Which is hugely important. That's our decision. We

:35:52.:35:55.

have also taken a very conscious view that the person who gives the

:35:56.:35:58.

bad news is not the person who looks after you long-term. So we have a

:35:59.:36:02.

notifying officer and then a visiting officer, so that actually

:36:03.:36:07.

that awful news which really does hurt, immediately almost within

:36:08.:36:12.

hours, somebody else is there who actually brings in all the welfare

:36:13.:36:15.

support and other agency, they almost come as a sort of package to

:36:16.:36:19.

look after you. A very professional system then,

:36:20.:36:25.

perhaps. But still a human-to-human contact that must have a profound

:36:26.:36:29.

impact? It does, and most of these people are volunteers, and we don't

:36:30.:36:34.

train them separately, so this is in addition to their day job. And most

:36:35.:36:38.

of them take a huge pride in doing it properly, because it is a fellow

:36:39.:36:44.

soldier. And of course they are human and some things don't go as

:36:45.:36:50.

well as they could do. Is it made harder when it is a conflict like

:36:51.:36:54.

Afghanistan and there has been a lot of public misgiving about it for the

:36:55.:36:59.

families, for your family. Was it worth it? That is the most difficult

:37:00.:37:05.

question to answer. I take great comfort in the fact that Andrew was

:37:06.:37:08.

doing a job he absolutely loved, he was a good soldier, he was a good

:37:09.:37:12.

officer and he died in the service of his nation. And I hope that this

:37:13.:37:21.

nation respect that and will respect all those others who died alongside

:37:22.:37:25.

him. But as father that is a very difficult question to answer on

:37:26.:37:30.

daily basis in a positive way. Do you think you will ever be able to

:37:31.:37:34.

answer it? I'm very proud of my son, I'm also proud of having been in the

:37:35.:37:38.

army for all those years, and I'm proud of a nation that sends its men

:37:39.:37:43.

and women to international operations rather than just a nation

:37:44.:37:47.

who looks its own borders. And I think being part of a nation like

:37:48.:37:52.

that should make us all proud. So I'm enormously proud. Thank you so

:37:53.:37:57.

much for coming in and sharing air memories of your son and your own

:37:58.:38:01.

experiences thank you. Democracies are rarely born without pain, but

:38:02.:38:08.

after just three years, post the revolution, has Egypt given up all

:38:09.:38:12.

together. The head of the army, Abudl Al Sisi, has surrounded his

:38:13.:38:16.

job, but not to retire quietly, but to stand as the country's President.

:38:17.:38:20.

Despite violence against his opponent as swell of popular support

:38:21.:38:24.

looks likely to put the strong man into power. Dignity, bread, liberty.

:38:25.:38:36.

The battle cry of 2011. As Egypt's people ended six decades of military

:38:37.:38:43.

rule. But three years on, after an attempt at democracy, a strongman

:38:44.:38:47.

looks set to return. But it seems this is what many Egyptians actually

:38:48.:38:57.

want. Field Marshal Abudl Al Sisi, the head of Egypt's army has

:38:58.:39:02.

resigned so he can fight as President, a fight he's almost

:39:03.:39:06.

certain to win. TRANSLATION: I stand before you in my military uniform

:39:07.:39:10.

for the last time. For I have made up my mind to retire as the minister

:39:11.:39:19.

of defence. He's something of a celebrity since he ousted the Muslim

:39:20.:39:28.

Brotherhood last year. For many he has brought stability after three

:39:29.:39:37.

years of chaos. The Muslim Brotherhood's Mohammed Morsi had

:39:38.:39:42.

treated his 2012 victory as winner takes all, stacking the state with

:39:43.:39:46.

Islamists, giving himself extensive powers. But after clashes with the

:39:47.:39:53.

Brotherhood, the army seized power, for many it felt simply like a

:39:54.:40:01.

traditional coup. This week an Egyptian court sentenced 528 Morsi

:40:02.:40:09.

supporters to death, the largest mass sentence in Egypt's history. It

:40:10.:40:13.

is not yet clear what a return to strongman rule will mean for Egypt.

:40:14.:40:19.

The early signs are not encouraging. But if Egyptians can't have all

:40:20.:40:25.

three, dignity, bread and liberty, faced with chaos will most of the

:40:26.:40:30.

population in the end choose bread? With us now is Abdullah Al-Haddad

:40:31.:40:35.

from the Muslim Brotherhood party which won the democratic election in

:40:36.:40:40.

2012 and Dr Mona Makram-Ebeid, form MP in the parliament of Egypt.

:40:41.:40:47.

Firstly to Cairo, will there ever be democracy in Egypt? Why not? Why are

:40:48.:40:57.

you so sceptical, we are all very hopeful we will have a civilian

:40:58.:41:01.

democracy, in fact. But in the meantime, we will have a guided

:41:02.:41:09.

democracy. And a progressive one, we won't have it overnight, it will be

:41:10.:41:13.

a progressive civilian democracy at some time. You call it a guided

:41:14.:41:17.

democracy. But you have what looks like a regime threatening to execute

:41:18.:41:22.

more than 500 of its opponents? It is not threatening to execute

:41:23.:41:29.

anybody. That was the court judgment yesterday. But it is unlikely that

:41:30.:41:36.

the sentence will be carried out, and if it is not struck down on

:41:37.:41:40.

appeal, it will likely be commuted either by the President or by the

:41:41.:41:48.

grand mufti. You say a guided democracy, that is not a free

:41:49.:41:50.

society where people are able to live as they choose, or object to

:41:51.:41:57.

what is happening politically! They are absolutely free, they are all

:41:58.:42:03.

expressing ourselves very freely, nobody is stopping us. With hundreds

:42:04.:42:09.

of people being arrested? Some people are being arrested if they

:42:10.:42:14.

are found not guilty they will be released as many of them have been

:42:15.:42:21.

released. So If this is what people are happy with, a guided democracy,

:42:22.:42:24.

if it is what people want it is what people should get isn't it? I

:42:25.:42:28.

disagree with what was said. I think we will have a mass murderer like

:42:29.:42:33.

Stalin and Pinochet who committed the worst state-led massacre against

:42:34.:42:39.

the anti-coup protesters in their cities, and he's now using the

:42:40.:42:43.

Egyptian judiciary as another oppression tool to continue his

:42:44.:42:48.

violent crackdown against anyone who opposes him. You are comparing Al

:42:49.:42:53.

Sisi to Stalin? Yes, of course, what we have seen two days ago the dead

:42:54.:42:59.

sentence to more than -- death sentence to more than 500 people.

:43:00.:43:06.

Stall Len who went on to be response -- Stalin who was responsible for

:43:07.:43:16.

many millions of peoples death, you are comparison, you are happy with

:43:17.:43:20.

the comparison? He will not hesitate in killing hundreds of thousands,

:43:21.:43:25.

women, children, men or anyone who opposed him. The suggestion is Al

:43:26.:43:33.

Sisi will be a new Stalin, convince add pattern of dictatorship is

:43:34.:43:39.

already there? You can suggest to anybody, you can suggest Hitler, to

:43:40.:43:45.

husband he is a hero, to us he as going to be a reformer. To us he

:43:46.:43:51.

saved us from a Civil War. To us he is the one we called upon and he

:43:52.:43:58.

didn't come on his own, certainly he came out of necessity and not out of

:43:59.:44:06.

desire. This is one thing. One forgets all the attacks against the

:44:07.:44:11.

police, all the attacks, the persistent murder of policemen, of

:44:12.:44:16.

army people, and of ordinary civilians, who have been living with

:44:17.:44:23.

that since the 30th of June. You are clearly never going to sign up to Al

:44:24.:44:29.

Sisi. The wider point is an attempt at democracy in 2012 failed. The

:44:30.:44:35.

Muslim Brotherhood grabbed extra powers for the President and people

:44:36.:44:40.

do want some kind of stability? I totally disagree, there were

:44:41.:44:44.

mistakes from the Muslim Brotherhood but within a democratic system, the

:44:45.:44:48.

only tool to determine whether this is right or wrong was the ballot

:44:49.:44:52.

box. What Abudl Al Sisi did on the 3rd July was a military coup. He

:44:53.:44:56.

ousted the first democratically elected President ever in the

:44:57.:45:01.

history of Egypt. Now there are more than 22,000 innocents in jail,

:45:02.:45:05.

children, women, even journalist, now he is killing committed

:45:06.:45:09.

atrocities. Mass killings against anyone who opposes him. In the day

:45:10.:45:15.

that he announced his presidential bid, a 14-year-old boy was killed by

:45:16.:45:21.

his forces. Where should people in Egypt accept that kind of crackdown

:45:22.:45:30.

on their political opponents? First of all the former President was

:45:31.:45:35.

removed not by military coup but popular impeach: Meaning the people

:45:36.:45:40.

have asked that -- impeachment, mean the people asked that the President

:45:41.:45:44.

who has violated his mandate to be removed. Other people are protesting

:45:45.:45:49.

for the last nine months, don't they have the right? I am afraid we must

:45:50.:45:55.

leave it there, it will be fascinating to see how it unfolds,

:45:56.:45:59.

the two of are you very opposed to each other's views, we must leave it

:46:00.:46:03.

there I'm afraid. That is all for tonight. But just in case you missed

:46:04.:46:07.

it, the Education Secretary was taking questions from schoolchildren

:46:08.:46:12.

as part of the BBC's School Report, he let slip as you well know his

:46:13.:46:26.

well known love of Chap Hop. I was wondering could you give us a taster

:46:27.:46:30.

of your favourite rap, as you have recently said you liked rap. I have

:46:31.:46:36.

got so many, the first rap I liked was the What happens Rap, with

:46:37.:46:42.

Andrew ridgely and George Mike KACHLT "take a look at me, I have

:46:43.:46:46.

credibility, I have good time with the boys I meet on the line"

:46:47.:46:51.

# What happens balm # I am the man

:46:52.:46:55.

# You can't tell me that I'm not # Do you

:46:56.:47:12.

# Enjoy what to do ?

:47:13.:47:15.

Heavy showers in south wells, rain in Northern Ireland, but not all day

:47:16.:47:22.

long. There will be sunny spells across

:47:23.:47:23.