08/04/2014 Newsnight


08/04/2014

News stories with Jeremy Paxman. Including the culture secretary's constituency, Martin McGuinness and the Queen, the Police Federation, Oscar Pistorius and Japan and militarism.


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Transcript


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the Culture Secretary has been living has been getting thicker.

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She's not resigned yet, or been sacked, yet, but the angry voices

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are getting louder. Those in favour of fuller accountability say there

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is a blindingly obvious independent body staring them in the fashion it

:00:24.:00:28.

is called "the public". How is it playing out in Maria Miller's

:00:29.:00:31.

constituency, her cabinet colleague has come here to defend her.

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Military bands, Household Cavalry and a fly-past of planes in tight

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formation over Windsor Castle. As a former commander of the IRA explains

:00:44.:00:47.

why he so admired the Queen of England. I was tremenduously

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impressed, tremenduously impressed that Queen Elizabeth was prepared to

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stand in solemn commemoration for those people who fought against

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British rule in Ireland. And that she was prepared to honour the Irish

:01:03.:01:06.

language in the way she did. We report from Japan on how the micing

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power of minia is letting the Prime Minister drive the -- the rising

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power of China is letting the Prime Minister drive away business. He

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feels by accepting the convention history Japan will be emasculated

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and vulnerable to Chinese attacks. Basic stoke Tourist Board is

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doubtless bracing itself after the town's MP, Maria Miller, also the

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Culture Secretary, called for the focus to be on the town and not her.

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It wasn't necessarily her fault that her fellow MPs let her off with the

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fraction of the penalty it had been recommended she pay for abuse of the

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expenses system, but it was definitely her doing that she took

:01:57.:02:01.

only 32 seconds to make an apology for what she had done. Increasing

:02:02.:02:05.

numbers of fellow MPs now say she should resign her post. The key

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decision may not be her's at all, but the Prime Minister's. At what

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point is it more damaging to keep her than to ditch her? What's all

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this doing to public trust in politics and politicians? What do

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they think in Basingstoke? Ever get the sense that people wished you

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would go away, the Basingstoke Conservative club posts it is open

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seven days a week. Today, understandably enough they had

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enough of people like me. The other side of town, a hive of activity, or

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as much of one you can have with a bunch of chairs, the Labour Club was

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getting ready to welcome John Mann, the man who helped kick-start the

:02:50.:02:57.

whole McMillan Miller investigation. She told the Basingstoke Gazette she

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was devastated. The questions over the last 48 hours have raged around

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how MPs police themselves? Who scrutinises them? Are the bodies

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independent enough? What of the Standards Committee, who should have

:03:14.:03:16.

the vote there? Today we heard from the lay, nonvoting members of that

:03:17.:03:22.

committee, their own report suggests undisguised dismay at the hypocrisy

:03:23.:03:26.

they found. Ed Miliband joined the clamour of voices calling for a new

:03:27.:03:30.

system. We need to look at reform in this area, we have reformed

:03:31.:03:34.

ex-tenses and that was the right thing to do, with an independent

:03:35.:03:38.

body overseeing it. This is part of the system that hasn't been properly

:03:39.:03:41.

looked at or reformed, we need to look again. Those in favour of full

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accountability say there is a blindingly obvious independent body

:03:46.:03:48.

just staring them in the face, it is called "the public "requests, --

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"the public", the electorate, they should be allowed to hold MPs to

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account at any part in the parliamentary cycle. It probably

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sounds like a no-brainer. We should have the power to do something about

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it, if it was one of us we would be banged up. Do you think the public,

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the voters have enough power to get rid of an MP if you want to? The

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only way to get that is in the constituency. I think she is doing

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fair job in Basingstoke, but not for the country. Paul Harvey wants to be

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Labour's next MP here, he will take on Maria Miller's 13,000-strong

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majority in 2015. All the parties need to get round the table and have

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a conversation about how do we repair the trust between Members of

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Parliament and the communities they represent. And that starts by giving

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power to the people to recall their MPs if they have behaved as badly

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and as disgracefully as Maria has done in the eyes of her

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constituents. Do you worry you would get the kangaroo court syndrome. We

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were speaking to people earlier who said she should go to prison. If

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that's what people think, even though they are wrong about the

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legality of what she has done, then anything could happen? But democracy

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needs to be trusted. You need to have trust in the electorate, if the

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electorate are given the power of recall, then you are trusting them

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to make a judgment on their local member of parliament. After the

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expenses of 2009, crucially before the last election, the three main

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parties all promised to clean up politics, offering the biggest

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shake-up to democracy for 178 years. The idea was to offer constituents

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the chance to recall their MPs, that is remove them through a

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by-election, if there was enough support. That was nearly five years

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ago, it never happened. The Conservative MP, Zach Goldsmith, a

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strong supporter of the recall bill thinks it was fear. It is a fear of

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democracy, when I have argued privately and publicly with Nick

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Clegg, it is his job to draft this bill. He talks about kangaroo

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courts. In recall the only court is the constituency, anyone can take

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part, it is just like an election. If nigh view it is an offensive

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thing to say about one's constituents, it is reveal ago

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terror of the mob or the voter. Under his proposal if around 20% of

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constituents signed a petition over an eight-week period it would

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trigger a referendum into whether the MP would step down, 50% in

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favour would trigger a by-election. It is a long way from the

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Government's own draft bill, which needs the agreement, of you guessed

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a Select Committee. Why not take it to the electorate, that is an

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independent body? There are huge difficulties with the called pure

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recall approach and that is would for instance members of the public

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be able to decide simply that they did not like their member of

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parliament? Would they be able just to decide for instance that on an

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issue of conscience, whether it was an issue abortion or euthanasia,

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whether they had a fundamental objection. But voters are already

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speaking, a petition calling for Maria Miller to pay back ?45,000 or

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step down has more than 170,000 signatures. Tonight it is reported

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the Government has tried to shut others like it down. As another MP

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came forward to repent her financial errors, this time with a fulsome

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apology, the air is starting to feel thick with the sense there may be

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more to come. With us now is the Conservative MP

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and leader of the House of Commons. In 2009 David Cameron said that in

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the matter of MPs' expenses the key thing was does it pass the smell

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test, do you think Maria Miller does pass the smell test? I think what we

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have clearly seen is one of those cases which relates to prior to

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2009. Frankly, of course, she was accused of obtaining a financial

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benefit by having her parents in her home, paid for by expenses. That

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complaint wasn't upheld, the principal complaints weren't upheld.

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You think she does pass the smell test? The important thing about 2009

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is we legislated for a new and independent system for the scrutiny

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of MPs' expenses. It is very important. I asked you a very simple

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question, does it pass the smell test? There was no dishonesty so it

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does pass it. The complaint against her was not upheld. What was

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identified were overpayments that she has repaid and the issue of

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course, very much a House of Commons issue, that she hadn't co-operated

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as fully and freely as the committee and the commissioner wanted. She

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afollow poll guised to the -- apologised to the House for that.

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Was a 32-second apology adequate? She made the adequate asked for. Was

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it adequate? She made the apology asked for. If you look back there

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have been previous apologies that have also been literally what was

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asked for, she made the apology asked for. The apology you make in a

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personal statement is one agreed with the Madam Speaker. He stopped

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her making a longer one did he? It wouldn't be appropriate for her to

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elaborate. It was right for her to make the apology that was asked for.

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When she says in this article for the voters of Basingstoke today that

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she's devastated by what's happened, what is she devastated about? I

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think she was very unhappy that it turned out she had claimed more than

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she was entitled to. Because she didn't think she had and it came out

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in the course of inquiries into this that she had claimed more than she

:09:49.:09:53.

really ought to have done. And she was, I think. She was devastated to

:09:54.:09:59.

discover she had done something wrong? I know her and she believed

:10:00.:10:05.

all the way through this, remember the Legg Inquiry, back in 2009, she

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and others were looked into by Sir Thomas Legg, she believed she had

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complied fully. If you look at the report the Standards Committee took

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the view that what she had claimed in relation to which was her main

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home and so on was actually reasonable in the light of the rules

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at the time. As leader of the House of Commons, you obviously think the

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Standards Committee is important? Certainly. Do you think therefore it

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acceptable that MPs don't bother to turn up for its meetings? No and I

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think they should be there. Does that pass the smell test? They need

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to do their job. And they completely understand that. They have not been

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doing it? In one case. Three lay members said today that very often

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they were too busy to be concerned about standards? They have delivered

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on their responsibility in a number of cases in recent months. There are

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11 MPs on that committee, one meeting only one MP turned up? That

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is acceptable is it? No, I'm not saying it is. That doesn't pass the

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smell test either? It has lay members on it now. Good thing too

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because the MPs don't turn up? They should be there and that is clear, I

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make no bones about that. They haven't been doing it? But that is

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their responsibility in the committee to do this thing. It is

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slightly your responsibility too? Actually, no, not directly. You are

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the Leader of the House? Absolutely, MPs don't give enough of a monkeys

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to turn up to the committee that regulates their behaviour? We have

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put lay members on that committee and the members are responsible for

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delivering on their responsibility. They have delivered a whole series

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of reports on their responsibility. Can the lay members vote? No. And

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nor do they need to vote. What are they doing on the committee? They

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participate directly in all the decisions of the committee. If they

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dissented they could publish a dissenting opinion and that would be

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a veto. They have more power than simply having a vote. Now MPs are

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too busy to be concerned about standards? That is not true. They do

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say that? I have read it. So have I. They recognise that MPs are busy.

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MPs are too busy to spend much time on standards? They and I know and we

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have discussed with the lay members the responsibility is on the

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Standards Committee and other members to meet those standards,

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that is our job and we will do that. But if they are not even turning up?

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Let me be clear about a number of things. Firstly, the expenses

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system, it wasn't covered in the package, since May 2010 is

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administered by an independent authority, IPSA, that is completely

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separate, now and for the future the expenses of Members of Parliament is

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governed independently, regulated, enforced, overpayments can be

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reclaimed, fines can be levied. That is all completely independent, we

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are dealing now with issues relating to t past. Before 2009 before the

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legislation came in. I hope there are few cases. The responsibility of

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the Standards Committee has changed, we have got independent members. We

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have an independent commissioner for standards. We have a process by

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which those independent members can make sure that where standards of

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conduct may not have been met it is independently investigated and there

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is an independent voice in the final report. You have read this report

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from the lay members of the Standards Committee? Yes I have. And

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you will recall in it that they also say there should be a re-think of

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the standards expected of MPs? Well, they say. Will there be such a

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thing? I hope we will do this and the Standards Committee will work

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across the House and beyond in order, with the public I hope, and

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they will look at rewriting the Code of Conduct. That is what they want

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to. Do they want to bring what they regard it into a more modern format

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and in line with the principles of public life asset out. Why should it

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be changed? The code of Conduct should be simpler and related more

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to the conduct in public life set butt out by the standards in public

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life committee. If you look at this particular case you are looking at a

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report. Maria Miller couldn't understand it apparently? The rules

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are very complicated and it doesn't help. This woman is a cabinet member

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and she can't understand the rules? Well the commissioner of standards

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and the Standards Committee themselves differed about the

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interpretation of the rules. What do you think this is doing to public

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trust in politicians? I don't think it helps. It is all right to laugh,

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but give credit where credit is due. Of course it doesn't help! In this

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parliament we have since May 2010 an independent system for the

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regulation of MPs' expenses, including enforcement and compliance

:15:14.:15:17.

with that. We have lay members on the Standards Committee and frankly

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no report from the Standards Committee would really pass muster

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if it didn't have the agreement of the lay members. They have

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effectively a veto on that. We have an independent commissioner for

:15:28.:15:29.

standards. So actually from the public's point of view they should

:15:30.:15:33.

have more confidence, and the issues I think will become much more

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straight forward as time goes on. You have just said this isn't

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helping at all, is it? Of course it isn't helping. Betty Boothroyd says

:15:42.:15:48.

the honourable thing for Maria Miller to do is resign. We knew it

:15:49.:15:53.

was a discredited system, it was complex, difficult, didn't meet any

:15:54.:15:56.

of the standards we currently expect. But this is an investigation

:15:57.:16:01.

that went back into 2006/07 and those years before the new system.

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Is she going to resign? I don't think so, I hope not. She enjoys the

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full confidence of the Government does she? From my point of view, I

:16:11.:16:14.

think she's a good Culture Secretary, just think in the last

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few weeks we have actually had for example just the other day the first

:16:19.:16:21.

same-sex marriages, she was the minister in the Government

:16:22.:16:25.

responsible for seeing through an important piece of social

:16:26.:16:29.

legislation. So she enjoys the full confidence of the Government? The

:16:30.:16:33.

Prime Minister is responsible always responsible for determining who is

:16:34.:16:37.

there are a Government at any one time. It is the Prime Minister's

:16:38.:16:41.

prerogative to decide whether a minister has his confidence at any

:16:42.:16:45.

time. And as far as you are aware, does she enjoy that confidence?

:16:46.:16:49.

Absolutely. The Prime Minister like all of us will have had an

:16:50.:16:53.

opportunity to look. Until she gets to be too much of a liability I

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suppose? He would have had an opportunity to look at that report

:16:57.:17:00.

and say, as I looked at it, and said it doesn't disclose dishonesty, she

:17:01.:17:06.

may not have co-operated with the committee as she should have, and

:17:07.:17:11.

she has apologised, but no more dishonesty on the expenses. How long

:17:12.:17:15.

will she be Culture Secretary? I think that is an reasonable question

:17:16.:17:19.

to ask. Fair enough. The Irish President had a jolly nice-sounding

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dinner tonight, beef with wild mushrooms and watercress puree,

:17:25.:17:30.

baked onions stuffed with Parmesan and bulgar wheat. What wasn't most

:17:31.:17:36.

remarkable was the food but the setting. You he was dining with the

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Queen, the first Irish President to do so. In the tortured relationship

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between these two countries it marks a new and more hopeful chapter in a

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story that has at times been distinguished by its lack of hope.

:17:53.:17:57.

It has never been an easy relationship, British rule in

:17:58.:18:02.

Ireland ended with blood, fire and a treaty in 1921 that made the

:18:03.:18:06.

separation final. But the fate of the north as well as the memories of

:18:07.:18:11.

Britain's long rear guard action against Irish Nationalism meant that

:18:12.:18:15.

it has taken until today for an Irish President to come to

:18:16.:18:18.

Westminster. With a message of friendship. The pain and sacrifice

:18:19.:18:27.

associated with the advent of Irish independence inevitably past casts

:18:28.:18:31.

its long shadow across our relation, causing us in the words of the Irish

:18:32.:18:36.

MP Stephen Gwen "to look at each other with doubtful eyes". We

:18:37.:18:41.

acknowledge that path, but as you have said, even more we whole

:18:42.:18:46.

heartedly welcome the considerable achievement of today's reality. The

:18:47.:18:51.

mutual respect, friendship and co-operation, which exists between

:18:52.:18:59.

our two countries, our two peoples. Among President Michael Higgins's

:19:00.:19:02.

cermonial calls today, the tomb of the unknown soldier in Westminster

:19:03.:19:06.

Abbey, where he laid a wreath before paying his respects nearby at Lord

:19:07.:19:13.

Mountbatten's grave. He was killed by Irish republicans in 1979. For

:19:14.:19:20.

decades many Irish despised the British arm year, and those Irishmen

:19:21.:19:24.

who served in it were subject to official discrimination within the

:19:25.:19:30.

Republican lick until very recently. But now this wreath has been --

:19:31.:19:35.

Republic, until very recently. But now this wreath has been laid, a

:19:36.:19:40.

sign of how attitudes have changed and the fruit of diplomatic effort.

:19:41.:19:44.

You can look at the attempts of looking for a thaw in Anglo-Irish

:19:45.:19:49.

relations going back to the Silver Jubilee in 1977 when the Irish

:19:50.:19:54.

Government authorised the attendance of the minister for Foreign affairs,

:19:55.:20:00.

Gareth Fitzgerald, the future Taoiseach. His attendance to mark

:20:01.:20:05.

the Silver Jubilee of the Queen. That was one piece of a jigsaw that

:20:06.:20:10.

was being painstakingly put together and was painstakingly butt together

:20:11.:20:15.

over subsequent decades. Today's visit reciprocated one made by the

:20:16.:20:22.

Queen in 2011, that had its own delicate wreath-laying moment, at

:20:23.:20:26.

the memorial for fallen Irish republicans. And the following year

:20:27.:20:30.

in Belfast, another moment of great symbolism between one of the modern

:20:31.:20:36.

heirs to the tradition and a British Monarch. The Northern Ireland peace

:20:37.:20:40.

process has been vital on the final steps to reconciliation. What we saw

:20:41.:20:44.

with the peace process and the negotiation of the Good Friday

:20:45.:20:49.

Agreement was a readiness of various different movements and parties and

:20:50.:20:52.

players to compromise and to accept the need for compromise. So I don't

:20:53.:20:57.

think that narrative of compromise and that narrative of impediment

:20:58.:21:02.

belongs to one particular part. Party. Tonight a further step of

:21:03.:21:09.

reconciliation, Martin McGuinness was invited to dine at the official

:21:10.:21:16.

banquet at Windsor Castle, not the easist of steps for either of them.

:21:17.:21:20.

But it has brought the once IRA commander and the head of state he

:21:21.:21:24.

fought to the same table. Earlier today I spoke to the Deputy First

:21:25.:21:31.

Minister of Northern Ireland. What on earth are you doing breaking

:21:32.:21:37.

bread with the head of state of an occupying power? I have many reasons

:21:38.:21:43.

why I shouldn't meet with Queen Elizabeth and she too with me, but

:21:44.:21:46.

we both thought it was an important thing to do. I first met you in the

:21:47.:21:51.

1970, if I had said to you then in 40 years' time you will be sitting

:21:52.:21:55.

down to dinner with the Queen of England, what would you have

:21:56.:22:00.

thought? Well simply I never would have imagined that I would be

:22:01.:22:04.

minister of education in a power-sharing Government in the

:22:05.:22:07.

north and then after that joint First Minister with Ian Paisley in a

:22:08.:22:12.

very important institution that has remained intact and steady for the

:22:13.:22:15.

last seven years. But it is still part of the United Kingdom? And I'm

:22:16.:22:22.

an Irish republican and absolutely dedicated to end partition and bring

:22:23.:22:26.

beg the people of the north and the north with the south. And we have

:22:27.:22:30.

agreed in the context of the Good Friday Agreement that can only

:22:31.:22:35.

change through a constitutional vote and I'm working to achieve that.

:22:36.:22:40.

When there is a loyal toast tonight at the dinner, will you stand up and

:22:41.:22:44.

toast the Queen? Well if there is a toast to the Queen I will observe

:22:45.:22:48.

all of the protocols and civilities. Isn't it the case that last year

:22:49.:22:51.

when you were here and there was a toast to the Queen at a dinner in

:22:52.:22:55.

the City of London, you were unavoidably absent from the room at

:22:56.:23:01.

that point? That was an absolute coincidence believe it or not. I was

:23:02.:23:06.

going to say how your bladder was? Appropriately ready to go! That was

:23:07.:23:11.

just coincidence? It really was a coincidence, absolutely. Do you

:23:12.:23:16.

regret not going to the dinner in Dublin Castle two years ago? Three

:23:17.:23:22.

years ago? My party obviously wasn't ready for that event at that time.

:23:23.:23:30.

Since we have conducted enormous conversations and discussions with

:23:31.:23:35.

our own people. Particularly in advance of the Queen Elizabeth's

:23:36.:23:37.

visit to Belfast and whether or not I should be involved in meeting with

:23:38.:23:42.

her at that time. And effectively people realised in the context of a

:23:43.:23:47.

conflict resolution process that it was very important to be involved.

:23:48.:23:53.

Not in mealy-mouthed words about reconciliation but actually acts of

:23:54.:23:57.

reconciliation. Isn't it the case that you saw how popular that visit

:23:58.:24:03.

of the Queen to Ireland was and you realised that by not being part of

:24:04.:24:06.

it you were losing political capital? No, that's not the reason

:24:07.:24:13.

for this at all. I mean I watched the conduct of that visit very, very

:24:14.:24:19.

carefully and I have to say I was tremenduously impressed.

:24:20.:24:23.

Tremenduously impressed that Queen Elizabeth was prepared to stand and

:24:24.:24:28.

in solemn commemoration for those people who fought against British

:24:29.:24:31.

rule in Ireland. That she was prepared to honour the Irish

:24:32.:24:35.

language in the way she did. It sounds as if you ought to toast her?

:24:36.:24:39.

As I say in the course of tonight's events I won't disappoint anybody.

:24:40.:24:44.

We will see! Do you think that these events, this visit, that last visit

:24:45.:24:50.

is making a united Ireland closer? I do believe we are inexorably moving

:24:51.:24:56.

towards the reunification of Ireland, but it can only happen

:24:57.:25:02.

through purely peaceful and reconciliatory means. If I remember

:25:03.:25:06.

you when you were younger and you wouldn't have dreamed of settling

:25:07.:25:12.

for anything other than a 32-county socialist Republic, if I said to you

:25:13.:25:16.

you have sold out what would you say? It is important the people who

:25:17.:25:19.

elected me don't believe that. I stand in a constituency that is one

:25:20.:25:23.

of the most republican and nationalist constituencies in

:25:24.:25:26.

Ireland. When I fought in that constituency and my mandate has

:25:27.:25:31.

increased because people want peace. The vast majority of people are

:25:32.:25:36.

miles ahead even of some of the most negative politicians out there. In

:25:37.:25:39.

this changed environment in which you find yourself living, we all

:25:40.:25:43.

find ourselves living, I wonder if you don't think it is time for a

:25:44.:25:48.

general amnesty, it is time as all the on the runs have got an amnesty,

:25:49.:25:53.

shouldn't British soldiers who were caught up in it too be given an

:25:54.:25:57.

amnesty? I think we have made enormous progress, we have made

:25:58.:26:01.

enormous progress in the context of hopefully if we can conclude the

:26:02.:26:05.

discussions over the next number of months, provide a menu of options

:26:06.:26:09.

for a very important constituency, those are the victims, and I think

:26:10.:26:15.

Take That is the best way to deal with it because we have different

:26:16.:26:19.

opinions within victims groups, there are people who do want people

:26:20.:26:22.

arrested and want convictions. We have other people who want people

:26:23.:26:26.

arrested but they don't want convictions, and we have other

:26:27.:26:30.

people part of victims' groups who don't want anybody arrested at all.

:26:31.:26:34.

What does that mean in terms of an amnesty for British soldiers as

:26:35.:26:39.

applied to some IRA members? Effectively the British Army and

:26:40.:26:43.

soldiers involved in th killings of hundreds of nationalists and

:26:44.:26:47.

republicans in the north have had an amnesty. The number of British

:26:48.:26:50.

people who were actually charged and went to prison you could count on

:26:51.:26:55.

the fingers of one hand. I'm asking you what you think should happen? I

:26:56.:26:58.

have told you, I think the negotiations. You don't have a view?

:26:59.:27:03.

I do have a view. What is it? That our approach is the better than the

:27:04.:27:06.

one you suggest. For the simple reason for me to say. You don't

:27:07.:27:10.

believe in an amnesty for British soldiers, but you do believe in it

:27:11.:27:16.

for republicans? They haven't had an amnesty. 180 letters went out? To

:27:17.:27:20.

people who had no case to answer. You don't think in the interests of

:27:21.:27:27.

fairness that there ought to be seen to be an equity between what happens

:27:28.:27:31.

to, let's call them soldiers, on both sides, you don't think that? I

:27:32.:27:35.

have made it very, very clear that I think you cannot compare the issue

:27:36.:27:40.

of what happened over the on the runs whilst the situation in regard

:27:41.:27:44.

to the British Army. It is an entirely different world now as you

:27:45.:27:52.

have already acknowledged What the parties to the talks will agree over

:27:53.:27:55.

the next few months is we will provide a menu of options for people

:27:56.:27:59.

who suffered as a result of the conflict. Nobody is arguing,

:28:00.:28:03.

including Sinn Fein, for an amnesty. Thank you. Now the police do not

:28:04.:28:09.

bully the public, that is, we are told repeatedly, not how they should

:28:10.:28:13.

behave in democratic society. It seems they do bully other police

:28:14.:28:17.

officers, the chairman of the Police Federation, what is to all

:28:18.:28:22.

appearances a trade union in all but name resigned yesterday. Today an

:28:23.:28:28.

e-mail emerged that suggested he was subjected to personal attacks by

:28:29.:28:33.

other police officers. The Met is suffering what is politely called an

:28:34.:28:38.

image problem since people discovered its arms length

:28:39.:28:41.

relationship to the truth in the plebgate story.

:28:42.:28:43.

What is the real story? The chairman on his way out, Steve Williams,

:28:44.:28:49.

wasn't just having a hard time to persuade colleagues it is time to

:28:50.:28:53.

change things. In a plea to them confess today his colleagues felt he

:28:54.:29:00.

was being gratuitously bullied and humiliated. That was the boss. He

:29:01.:29:03.

also warned in a message to colleagues that he was worried about

:29:04.:29:07.

what he said it was "we all saw what happened to our friend a colleague

:29:08.:29:15.

Paul McKeever his predecessor who passed away of an embolism after a

:29:16.:29:20.

turbulent and stressful period in that post". It was suggested that

:29:21.:29:26.

the officials meting out the abuse to him in public or private could

:29:27.:29:30.

have been arrested for public order offences. Today we heard other

:29:31.:29:34.

things about the federation, secret bank accounts for some parts of the

:29:35.:29:39.

organisation. The Treasury's nickname is "Fingers" he's running

:29:40.:29:45.

the federati of the Treasury even though he doesn't have accounting

:29:46.:29:49.

qualifications. And stories of them jetting off for bathroom fittings. A

:29:50.:29:56.

parody? It does matter because the Government is not just trying to

:29:57.:29:59.

change how the police force is and paid, but also how they Bake Off.

:30:00.:30:04.

The federation represents more than 100,000 officers in England and

:30:05.:30:08.

Wales, the rank and file. This torrid battle inside the federation

:30:09.:30:11.

shows how tall an order it will be for the Government to change it. The

:30:12.:30:16.

top civil servant at the Home Office told manufactures today he thinks

:30:17.:30:19.

this is a very dangerous moment from the federation. And separate sources

:30:20.:30:25.

told me they are behaving like a 1970s trade union and there is a

:30:26.:30:28.

strong possibility that militants might be able to take control. What

:30:29.:30:32.

I have been told essentially is there is hardcore among the 30

:30:33.:30:41.

bosses and mini-boss who is sit on the council. They are worried about

:30:42.:30:45.

losing not only control, but their expense accounts and their

:30:46.:30:49.

additional salary for being officers in the federation themselves. And

:30:50.:30:53.

crucially they are the only ones with the power to choose the next

:30:54.:30:56.

chairman of the federation who will have to take forward the kinds of

:30:57.:30:59.

reforms that the Home Secretary wants. There is a sense with

:31:00.:31:02.

everything that has happened through plebgate, through the controversy

:31:03.:31:07.

around undercover policemen, even through Hillsborough, that all the

:31:08.:31:10.

problems that British policing has been struggling with for quite some

:31:11.:31:15.

time are coming to a head. And the Police Federation is a crucial part

:31:16.:31:18.

of trying to solve those problems. But with a crisis like this inside

:31:19.:31:22.

their four walls it is looking pretty difficult to sort out. I

:31:23.:31:27.

should mention we did invite the Police Federation if theyn't whatted

:31:28.:31:33.

to take part tonight. But -- if they wanted to take part tonight but

:31:34.:31:38.

nobody did. Regardless of the intense interest the trial of the

:31:39.:31:41.

athlete Pistorius was adjourned early. He had broken down sobbing

:31:42.:31:45.

when he gave his version of what happened on the night he shot his

:31:46.:31:49.

girlfriend dead. It was the most dramatic day of testimony in the

:31:50.:31:52.

trial so far. And Jim Reid watched it all.

:31:53.:31:58.

It is 418 days since Reeva Steenkamp was shot and killed at the home of

:31:59.:32:02.

one of the best known athletes in the world. In his second day of

:32:03.:32:05.

testimony the man who pulled the trigger has, for the first time,

:32:06.:32:10.

been setting out his own version of what happened that night. You are

:32:11.:32:16.

still under oath. The media are not allowed to show images of Oscar

:32:17.:32:20.

Pistorius giving evidence on the stand. He told the court how he woke

:32:21.:32:24.

in the early hours of Valentine's Day last year and heard a noise. He

:32:25.:32:28.

said he grabbed the gun under his bed and shouted at his girlfriend to

:32:29.:32:35.

take cover. That's the moment that everything changed.

:32:36.:33:11.

As he gave evidence his sister Amy broke down in tears, Reeva

:33:12.:33:18.

Steenkamp's mother buried her head in her hands. Pistorius went on to

:33:19.:33:23.

describe the moment he beat down his toilet door with a cricket bat to

:33:24.:33:26.

find his girlfriend's body slumped on the floor. I think I hit the door

:33:27.:33:31.

three times and there was a big plank I grabbed it with my hands and

:33:32.:33:35.

threw it out into the bathroom. I flung the door open and I threw it

:33:36.:33:46.

open. I sat over Riva and and -- Reeva and I cried. I don't know how

:33:47.:33:50.

long. I don't know how long I was there for.

:33:51.:34:00.

She wasn't breathing. Prosecutors called this story an intricate lie

:34:01.:34:07.

and claimed Pistorius shot his girlfriend after a heated row. The

:34:08.:34:10.

defence's strategy has been to try to show it was a couple in love. It

:34:11.:34:22.

follows from the Watsapp on July, she sent three kiss, read what's

:34:23.:34:27.

following... Today Pistorius was asked to read out text messages he

:34:28.:34:32.

swapped with Steenkamp in the weeks before she died. It was a message to

:34:33.:34:37.

thank me for lunch and says you are so special to me, and I respond

:34:38.:34:41.

saying thank you for being the most beautiful person to me and I'm crazy

:34:42.:34:46.

about you, and when I look at you I smile inside. The prosecution say

:34:47.:34:52.

other text messages paint a picture of a strained, fractured messages

:34:53.:34:55.

with Reeva Steenkamp left scared at times. Oscar Pistorius is likely to

:34:56.:35:00.

face much tougher questions when the other side starts its

:35:01.:35:03.

cross-examination, and one of the most closely watched trials in

:35:04.:35:07.

history moves slowly towards a verdict. We're joined now from

:35:08.:35:17.

outside court in Pretoria. This looked extraordinary, even on the

:35:18.:35:19.

other side of the world, what was it like to sit through? It was quite

:35:20.:35:25.

extraordinary as you say, some moving and poignant moments inside

:35:26.:35:30.

that courtroom as we saw Oscar Pistorius breaking down repeatedly

:35:31.:35:33.

as he spoke about the moments leading up to the shooting through

:35:34.:35:38.

the toilet door in which he found Reeva Steenkamp. That he had shot

:35:39.:35:42.

Reeva Steenkamp. What was more moving was the gasps inside the

:35:43.:35:46.

courtroom when his lawyer asked him to remove his prosthetic legs and

:35:47.:35:52.

walk towards that bullet riddled door. What the defence was trying to

:35:53.:35:57.

do here was show Oscar Pistorius as a very vulnerable and pitiful man,

:35:58.:36:02.

because they are trying to use his disability as his defence. And we

:36:03.:36:07.

saw moments when Reeva Steenkamp's mother, June Steenkamp looked

:36:08.:36:13.

stoney-faced at Oscar Pistorius listening intently to every word

:36:14.:36:16.

that Oscar Pistorius was saying. And the last five minutes of today's

:36:17.:36:20.

proceedings, that is when we saw Oscar Pistorius inconsolable and

:36:21.:36:24.

crying loudly as he described those moments when he discovered that he

:36:25.:36:31.

had shot Reeva Steenkamp. This case to those of us who are familiar or

:36:32.:36:34.

unfamiliar with your country has revealed a number of astonishing

:36:35.:36:38.

things. First of all the level of violence against women, and the

:36:39.:36:42.

level of gun ownership and the behaviour of some people with guns.

:36:43.:36:47.

Is it being seen there as illuminating bigger issues in South

:36:48.:36:53.

Africa? Well people will argue, particularly gun owner, because they

:36:54.:36:58.

will say less than 10% of the population actually own guns in

:36:59.:37:01.

South Africa. But when you look at intimate partner violence in South

:37:02.:37:05.

Africa, women, every eight hours a woman is killed by her intimate

:37:06.:37:09.

partner here in South Africa. And the judge presiding on the Oscar

:37:10.:37:15.

Pistorius trial a few months ago sentenced the policeman to two life

:37:16.:37:19.

sentences in jail because he had shot dead his wife. And the judge

:37:20.:37:24.

had spoken quite strictly and tough about the violence against women and

:37:25.:37:28.

children here in South Africa. So they are hoping that you know with

:37:29.:37:32.

activists and NGOs, they are hoping that this trial will actually bring

:37:33.:37:36.

these issues to the spotlight and that they are sorted out as quickly

:37:37.:37:41.

as possible. Because of the nature of this high-profile trial. Thank

:37:42.:37:44.

you very much for joining us, thank you. Now there was a testy

:37:45.:37:49.

atmosphere in Beijing today as the American Defence Secretary tried to

:37:50.:37:53.

warn off China from military adventures in eastern Asia and told

:37:54.:37:59.

them the USA would stand by its all allies in the area. Japan the

:38:00.:38:07.

country especially alarmed by these movements by China. In a new

:38:08.:38:13.

constitution the country renounced war forever. But last year, under

:38:14.:38:19.

its increasingly assertive leader, the Japanese scrambled fighters 267

:38:20.:38:27.

times to intercept in coming Chinese aircraft. We report from Tokyo. This

:38:28.:38:42.

is a Japan many thought had disappeared 70 years ago. But as the

:38:43.:38:49.

balance of power in Asia swings, inexorably towards China, Japan is

:38:50.:38:54.

responding. Embracing long dormant nationalism, rearming and training

:38:55.:39:00.

for war. For years Japan has been steadily building one of the most

:39:01.:39:04.

modern and powerful naval forces anywhere in the world. And now the

:39:05.:39:07.

Japanese Government wants to go further to make it bigger, more

:39:08.:39:14.

powerful and to try it from the shackles of a pacifist constitution.

:39:15.:39:24.

It is 6. 30 in the morning at Japan's naval academy. These young

:39:25.:39:30.

recruits will be the Navy commanders of tomorrow. Japan's constitution

:39:31.:39:37.

bans them from going to war. But these cadets are not training for

:39:38.:39:47.

peacekeeping. TRANSLATION: We train every day for war, we are taught to

:39:48.:39:55.

think in a war-like way. While Britain's Royal Navy has six modern

:39:56.:40:00.

destroyers, Japan has 26. Its military commanders are preparing to

:40:01.:40:11.

fight a war at sea and this is why. This Chinese boat is deep inside

:40:12.:40:15.

Japanese controlled waters and refusing to stop. Last year Japan

:40:16.:40:26.

scrambled fighter jets, 267 times to intercept in coming Chinese

:40:27.:40:34.

aircraft. China is aggressively pursuing its territorial claims on

:40:35.:40:39.

islands around Japan. This increasingly tense atmosphere is

:40:40.:40:42.

providing the space for Japan's Prime Minister to move the country

:40:43.:40:48.

sharply to the right. On the one hand you can point to a definite

:40:49.:40:53.

expansionist tendencies of the Chinese Government. But you could

:40:54.:40:57.

say the Japanese Prime Minister, has added fuel to the fire by bringing

:40:58.:41:02.

back the history issues. He basically takes the view that Japan

:41:03.:41:07.

did nothing particularly wrong during the Second World War. The

:41:08.:41:14.

Prime Minister's political career is driven by restoring pride in Japan's

:41:15.:41:20.

identity. To do so he believes Japan must overturn its sense of shame

:41:21.:41:25.

about World War II. That is why he went to the shrine, a place that

:41:26.:41:31.

enshrines the spirit of Japan's top war criminals. He doesn't believe

:41:32.:41:37.

they were criminals. Modernising the Japanese military on the one hand,

:41:38.:41:42.

and basically providing a revisionist history view are

:41:43.:41:45.

basically inseparable. He thinks that by selling out and by accepting

:41:46.:41:52.

the conventional view of history Japan would be perpetually

:41:53.:41:57.

emasculated and vulnerable to Chinese attacks. The shrine is the

:41:58.:42:04.

spiritual home of Japanese nationalism. It celebrates the

:42:05.:42:10.

strong Japan the Prime Minister yearnings to bring back. It drives

:42:11.:42:20.

his plan to put the Emperor back at the throne. He's pushing textbooks

:42:21.:42:26.

that leave out Japan's war time atrocities. And it is why he and his

:42:27.:42:31.

Government are determined to scrap the peacetime constitution. This man

:42:32.:42:36.

is very close to the Prime Minister, he's his brother. TRANSLATION: Japan

:42:37.:42:45.

wants to act like a normal country under international law, we will not

:42:46.:42:48.

start a war, we are a peaceful country. But all countries have a

:42:49.:42:53.

right to self-defence. That's why we want to reinterpret the

:42:54.:43:01.

constitution. Changing the constitution requires a two thirds

:43:02.:43:05.

majority in parliament, and that's very difficult. That's why the

:43:06.:43:09.

Government now talks of reinterpreting it. But whether it is

:43:10.:43:15.

revised or reinterpreted the aim is to deal with China. TRANSLATION:

:43:16.:43:23.

China is trying to change the status quo by force and coercion, we will

:43:24.:43:28.

never escalate tension, but in our response to this situation we will

:43:29.:43:40.

be resolute in our actions. The islands here are Japan's closest

:43:41.:43:44.

point to China and the hub of American air power in the Pacific.

:43:45.:43:50.

Japanese schoolchildren gather to snap its most modern fighter jets as

:43:51.:43:55.

they head out over the sea. For 70 years Japan has embraced US military

:43:56.:44:01.

protection and US imposed pacifism. These schoolchildren are now at the

:44:02.:44:05.

centre of a fight over what sort of relationship Japan will have with

:44:06.:44:09.

its military and what future Japan will embrace. This man teaches

:44:10.:44:21.

children on the island, like many Japanese he remains deeply

:44:22.:44:28.

suspicious to any move back to military. TRANSLATION: Ever since

:44:29.:44:34.

World War II Japan has embraced individualism and human rights from

:44:35.:44:38.

the west. Now he wants to take us back to an older version of Japan

:44:39.:44:43.

like before the war and imperial Japan. It is in Japan's schools that

:44:44.:44:52.

the Prime Minister and the right are seeking to reclaim Japan's history.

:44:53.:44:56.

Schools like this one have been ordered to use a new

:44:57.:45:01.

Government-approved history text. That portrays Japan of liberating

:45:02.:45:09.

Asia from European impeerism. It whitewashes Japan's World War II

:45:10.:45:13.

atrocities. This school and these children are not using it, the

:45:14.:45:17.

teachers are resisting. TRANSLATION: They are stirring up nationalism and

:45:18.:45:21.

stirring up feelings against China saying that is why we need a strong

:45:22.:45:24.

military. They want to use the textbooks to condition our children

:45:25.:45:31.

to the idea of a strong military. The rumblings of nationalism can

:45:32.:45:36.

already be heard. In recent weeks we have seen public figures in Japan

:45:37.:45:44.

openly displaying opinion that is were once the territory of the far

:45:45.:45:51.

right. Denying Chinese sex slaves World War II, denying Japan was the

:45:52.:45:55.

agressor. By having a leader with very clear revisionist views of

:45:56.:45:59.

history, you are also encouraging more people like him to get on, to

:46:00.:46:04.

get the spotlight and have a great influence in the Japanese society.

:46:05.:46:10.

And so it can possibly unleash a series of events or developments

:46:11.:46:14.

that can eventually lead to a dangerous situation. It is not just

:46:15.:46:18.

Abe is determined to as you a war with China, but the kind of thing

:46:19.:46:23.

that he's doing can provoke China into a combat situation. The

:46:24.:46:30.

language of all the players is becoming more bell lig rent. China

:46:31.:46:36.

continues to aggressively push its claim to islands around Japan. Mr

:46:37.:46:40.

Abe has warned the situation in east China sea is like Britain and German

:46:41.:46:47.

in 1914 and US intelligence chiefs have accused China of preparing for

:46:48.:46:52.

a short war to grab those islands from Japan. The Japanese Government

:46:53.:46:58.

has decided it is now time to stand up to China. Japan will no longer

:46:59.:47:03.

sit by and watch China dominate this region. That means abandoning # 0

:47:04.:47:09.

years of pass -- 70 years of pacifism, and it means that Japan

:47:10.:47:13.

are acquiring the military capability to take China on. Many

:47:14.:47:23.

believe it is time for Japan to become a normal country with a

:47:24.:47:28.

normal military. But by turning to nationalism the Government risks

:47:29.:47:32.

inflaming tensions with both allies and rivals. The biggest danger of

:47:33.:47:38.

all comes from that most incendiary of weapons, history. Well no time

:47:39.:47:48.

for the newspapers and that's all we have time for at all tonight. More

:47:49.:47:50.

tomorrow, until then, good night. So far this week heavy rain on

:47:51.:48:08.

Monday, bright spells and showers on Tuesday, as far as Wednesday is

:48:09.:48:12.

concerned it is going to be quite cloudy, some rain to the north,

:48:13.:48:13.

The culture secretary's constituency. Martin McGuinness toasts the Queen. The Police Federation. Oscar Pistorius. Japan and militarism. With Jeremy Paxman.


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