Browse content similar to 10/04/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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As many of you know I have gone through 11 months of hell. Cleared, | :00:00. | :00:13. | |
Nigel Evans, the former Deputy Speaker, another very public | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
prosecution of sex offences fails, but one of the men who testified in | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
the case tells Newsnight he feels humiliated. And parliament has to | :00:22. | :00:29. | |
change. Even though we work in one big building together, there was no | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
mechanism to deal with this problem. There still isn't. We will be | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
talking live to Nigel Evans' lawyer. The drug meant to protect us from a | :00:42. | :00:48. | |
flu pandemic might not work. The research on Tamiflu is finally out | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
in the open. Remember this? Two years since Greece nearly crashed | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
out of the euro, but today the markets actually want to buy up its | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
debts, is it time to call off the crisis. | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
We will ask a former MP and one of Gordon Brown's key business | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
advisers. A... 80,000 people went quiet, the | :01:08. | :01:16. | |
silence of 80,000 people is very loud. Dancer Akram Khan tells us how | :01:17. | :01:30. | |
terrifying it was to choreograph the Olympics. | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
After the journey from the speaker's chair to the dock, Nigel Evans says | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
nobodying will the same again. The MP was cleared of charges of sexual | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
offences against seven young men, on the steps of the court he said there | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
was no young women. A deliberate echo of the Coronation Street car, | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
Bill Roache, cleared of similar charges earlier this year. As | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
another high-profile case fails to secure conviction as wave of | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
Conservative MPs are calling for change at the Crown Prosecution | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
Service service, one of the seven men at the centre of the case he | :02:06. | :02:15. | |
feels has told Newsnight feels angry. | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
In my darkest and loneliest times there were only two or one sets of | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
foot prints in the sand. For those of you of fate will know, they | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
weren't mine. The fact is I have work to do. It is the work that I | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
have done for the last 22 years. Nigel Evans burst into tears as he | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
was cleared of all charges at Preston Crown Court, he stood in the | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
dock, hands clasped, listening as each of the nine "not guilty" | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
verdicts were read out in turn. Mr Nigel Evans was elected Deputy | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
Chairman of ways and means. In 2010 he was one of three MPs elected to | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
the high-profile role of Deputy Speaker, he stepped down last | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
September to fight the charges of sexual assault and rape. The | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
56-year-old was alleged to have used his political influence to take | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
advantage of young male victims, often while drunk, often in bars and | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
clubs near the House of Commons. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
our Prime Minister, David Cameron. Following today's not guilty verdict | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
the Prime Minister led a long line of MPs offering their backing. It is | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
hard to imagine the relief that Nigel must feel after such a | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
traumatic time. I very much welcome what he said on the steps of the | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
court and I think everyone should pay heed to that. I'm sure to get on | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
with working with his constituents in the Ribble Valleys and for the | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
future I'm sure it is something he will be discussing with the Chief | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
Whip when he returns to parliament. But on the Internet and across | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
Westminster there was also sharp criticism of both the police and the | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
CPS, both in private and in public, many Tory MPs were asking how this | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
case ever got to court in the first place. In truth it wasn't long after | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
this trial started that the prosecution case started to fall | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
apart. Witnesses changed their Tories in the dock, victims gave | :04:16. | :04:23. | |
contradictory evidence. One accuser, a young university student said he | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
had been drinked champagne and gin at the MP's local pub and his home | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
last year. He told police he was pushed into the bedroom and forcibly | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
undressed by Evans, in court he said there was no pushing, he had taken | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
off his own clothes and passed up the chance to sleep in daven room. | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
Three of the seven men called to give evidence against Evans didn't | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
want the MP arrested or charged in the first place. One said: To be | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
honest I didn't think there were any grounds to be charged: I | :04:57. | :05:10. | |
Decisions to prosecute are made on paper, somebody has to look at the | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
wider picture. If you have an individual that doesn't want to come | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
to court for whatever reason, the wider picture may be that the whole | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
case depends on lots of individuals. You can't give the decision | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
necessarily to an individual witness as a prosecutor you have to look at | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
the case as whole. Today the police defended the decision to bring | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
charges, saying they have to investigate no matter what role the | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
accused hold. We worked with the Crown Prosecution Service at an | :05:45. | :05:46. | |
early stage, and all the evidence was subject to careful scrutiny | :05:47. | :05:49. | |
before a decision was taken to charge. Particularly where | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
complainants didn't see themselves as victims. Only after very careful | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
consideration was the decision made to put this before a jury and the | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
belief that there was sufficient evidence to justify a realistic | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
prospect of conviction. Today's emphatic not guilty verdict may be a | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
huge relief to Nigel Evans. But the detail of went on in bars in Soho | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
are embarrassing to the MP, during the case he admitted to making | :06:20. | :06:26. | |
repeated passes to younger staff. One of the victims said he didn't | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
see it was a criminal offence, but there may be something about the | :06:32. | :06:33. | |
culture of parliament that made this possible. He said at some point | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
there will be a major Skandia that will make -- scandal that will make | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
this case look like small fry. There is a new Code of Conduct following | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
the Evans case, but it is entirely voluntary, another bullying advice | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
line for parliamentary staff is being launched. Those who have | :06:54. | :06:55. | |
worked in parliament say the pressures of the job can often leave | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
people alone and vulnerable. I think after a while people end up | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
in many, many occasions drinking too much, I think that naturally because | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
of the late hours they stay away from their family and their staying | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
on -- they are staying on their own in Westminster, they get lonely in | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
the job. They end up having strong bonds with a researcher because they | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
are working crazy hours together, hours which are stressful. You put | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
that together and this is a sense in which people form relationships | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
which are perhaps inappropriate, they end up having affairs because | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
they are way from home and drinking too much and having a lifestyle that | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
isn't perhaps a healthy lifestyle. Nigel Evans left court cleared of | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
any wrongdoing, he acknowledged from today his life was never going to be | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
the same again. Reforming the heavy drinking high-pressure culture of | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
Westminster could take a good while longer. | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
Earlier tonight I spoke to one of the men who made the allegations | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
about Mr Evans. He wanted to remain anonymous. But I asked him first how | :07:59. | :08:05. | |
did he feel about today's verdict? I'm really angry, I was a bit upset | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
at first but I have just been really angry all afternoon, I have not been | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
able to do any work. What are you angry about? I'm angry because I | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
felt when I went to give evidence and I was cross-examined it was, I | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
knew it was going to be difficult, but I found it very humiliating and | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
degrading. How did it make you feel when you were in the witness box, | :08:37. | :08:44. | |
being spoken to in that way? I felt like I, I can remember the defence | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
barrister smiling when he would trip me up by words saying what did I | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
mean by this and that. It was confusing and scary. Why didn't you | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
go to the police at the time? The next day I got on the train home and | :09:03. | :09:11. | |
I did Google sort of Victim Support. I didn't find much for men and I was | :09:12. | :09:19. | |
very conscious of the fact that because he was a public figure what | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
this would mean with it being in the press and in the papers. The fact | :09:26. | :09:34. | |
that I used to work in parliament so even though I would get anonymity, | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
everyone of my old friends would know and I didn't want people to | :09:39. | :09:47. | |
know, but eventually I decided that something I had to do something. I | :09:48. | :09:58. | |
thought that it might happen again. There was a message that went to | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
party whips earlier on about his behaviour and you had been working | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
in parliament, do you feel that the parties took it seriously at the | :10:12. | :10:23. | |
time. I don't think any of the main parties know what to do. The strange | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
thing about parliament is they make the laws but they don't like any, | :10:29. | :10:39. | |
they don't like a place of business. They don't have a HR department, our | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
bosses are technically as it were self-employed and we are all small | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
businesses so we have, even though we work in one big buiing together, | :10:49. | :10:55. | |
there was no mechanism to deal with this problem. There still isn't. So | :10:56. | :11:04. | |
you were too scared of the potential public ramifications if you told the | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
police? And the political parties you didn't feel would take it | :11:09. | :11:18. | |
seriously enough. No, I know that the, they were certainly aware that | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
MPs and young 20-something researchers who are vulnerable | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
because they fear for their careers and all the hard work that they do | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
can be just thrown away in an instant, and I think a lot of | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
people, senior people count on that, that it can be brushed under the | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
carpet. Do you accept though that different people have different | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
interpretations of what is acceptable, especially in a | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
highly-charged environment, when there is a lot of alcohol around? | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
Yeah. There are some young researchers who certainly enjoy the | :12:01. | :12:09. | |
contact that they get. And that is entirely up to them. But there are | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
plenty, if not most who don't appreciate that at all, and they | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
just want to work and they got into politics that they want to change | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
the world. But they find that when they get there they have got to put | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
up with a lot of stuff. Some of the witnesses in this case | :12:30. | :12:55. | |
I know if you are a defence barrister that is your job, I don't | :12:56. | :13:05. | |
feel like my evidence changed, think when I properly spoke to the police | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
and gave my interview, that was recorded, from then on you know my | :13:10. | :13:17. | |
line was very clear. I think. So that's my opinion on that. There | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
have been suggestions some of this was some kind of plot? I don't | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
understand the logic behind that. I have lost everything in this last | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
year and had to slowly rebuild my life, I had ambitions for a | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
political career after working in parliament and I don't see that as a | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
real possibility any more. It has taken me almost a year to get a new | :13:47. | :13:56. | |
job outside of politics. Mr Evans said there was | :13:57. | :17:22. | |
If cases are going to be prosecuted by more senior barristers, larger | :17:23. | :17:32. | |
police resources, which may well be appropriate, because serious | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
complaints such as rape should be properly investigated, of course | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
they should. The defence need that equality of arms to combat them. | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
Fortunately Mr Evans was able to pay for private legal fees. Many people | :17:44. | :17:52. | |
KRNTHS and the attack on Legal Aid will see continued miscarriages of | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
justice in the future. What would you like to see change in the | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
systems, there is a lot of calls for anonymity of defendants in these | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
cases, would you support that? There is a view that a lot of people came | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
forward about the Savile case, because they had seen it on | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
television. There are many, many protections that are forwarded, | :18:16. | :18:23. | |
afforded sorry, to the genuine victims of sexual assaults. They are | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
guaranteed anonymity for life. Defendants are not guaranteed any | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
anonymity. There is a strong view amongst many defence lawyers that | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
anonymity should be guaranteed up to the point that somebody is | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
convicted. Just briefly, I'm afraid we are running out of time, briefly | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
Mr Evans spoke outside the court, and he did through the course of the | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
trial admit to some behaviour that many people would find | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
inappropriate. Does he accept that he did anything wrong, do you think? | :18:58. | :19:08. | |
Mr Evans is a single man, he had close friendships with people ooh if | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
we take anybody's life and lay it out in front of a court of law, | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
under the microscope of the media things will come out. He's a decent | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
man, he's a decent politician, he cares deeply about his constituents, | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
and I wish him a long career in parliament. Thank you very much | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
indeed for joining us from Salford tonight. Now, the drugs don't work! | :19:30. | :19:36. | |
Or at least that's the claim made today. The Government has already | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
paid almost ?5 million for stockpiles of the antiviral Tamiflu, | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
bought up when there were fears of a bird flu pandemic that could wipe | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
out hundreds of thousands of people. But a group of searchers has today | :19:50. | :19:56. | |
said it doesn't actually prevent the spread of flu or reduce dangerous | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
complay mytations -- complication and has little more effect than | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
taking paracetamol. Are they right? It has taken time to come to this | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
conclusion because the drug company refused legally to hand over their | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
data. What is going on? How can you spend more than ?400 | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
million on a drug that just doesn't seem to work terribly well. That, it | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
seems, it what the last British Government did. From 2006 it built | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
up a stockpile of Tamiflu, a drug for people who have the flu, to help | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
the country in the event of a major pandemic. But the Cochrane | :20:38. | :20:47. | |
Collaboration, announced today it believes Tamiflu may be of very limb | :20:48. | :20:59. | |
-- limited, while they found it would shorten flu symptoms by half | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
way. There was no good evidence to support claims it reduced admissions | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
to hospital. It announced increased risk of suffering from nausea and | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
vomiting after taking the drug. The big question is why we ended up | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
buying so much Tamiflu. Governments have always had the responsibility | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
to deal with contagious diseases. I'm here at the site of the Soho | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
cholera epidemic. That was pretty easy to solve. All the omissions had | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
to do was take the handle off water pump. Flu, however, is much harder | :21:33. | :21:42. | |
to deal with. Many think of the flu as a few days in bed. It is however | :21:43. | :21:55. | |
a fast growing disease, if it morphs into a particular strain it can | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
cause devastation. The so called Spanish flu killed 228,000 British | :22:00. | :22:07. | |
people. The purchase of Tamiflu was fuelled by fear of a repeat. What if | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
a bird flu turned into a lethal human disease? The Government's risk | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
register noted that a new flu pandemic might cause 750,000 deaths. | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
Would the emergency services cope if, as the worst case scenario | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
planning implied, one in five people were too sick to work? Tamiflu was | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
insurance against a catastrophe. But why did the British Government not | :22:38. | :22:46. | |
look at the evidence that the Cochrane researchers were looking at | :22:47. | :22:48. | |
before deciding to buy all the Tamiflu. They couldn't, the company | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
that makes Tamiflu only recently released the data. I think the most | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
extraordinary thing here is in refusing to hand over this | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
information for half a decade, they broke no law. And in fact that's | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
really the problem here. Our regulatory framework is broken and | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
drug companies and researchers are routinely and legally withholding | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
vitally important information about the results on clinical trials in | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
treatments we used to. Doctors, researchers and patients can't make | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
informed decisions about which treatment is best as long as this is | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
permitted. We need clear legislation to ensure all trials on all the | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
treatments currently being used are made fully, publicly available. So | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
why does that missing trial data matter? So let as imagine I'm trying | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
to sell a new fictional drug. I perform lots of tests and I get all | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
of these results for it. That vertical line there, that is the | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
average result. Now, let's imagine I don't publish all the results. By | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
hiding some of the data I can shift the average. Or suppose I publish | :23:58. | :24:04. | |
all of the results but I don't publish that generated them. And | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
what if my research wasn't totally air tight? The real effects might be | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
different from the one that is I'm claiming. And that is what the | :24:14. | :24:21. | |
Cochrane research essay they came to when they looked at the data on | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
Tamiflu. That conclusion is strongly rejected by Roche who insist it is a | :24:27. | :24:34. | |
vital treatment for flu. Senior he officials in the department say it | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
was still the right decision to stockpile Tamiflu. They say it might | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
not be strong enough but when you are worried about pandemics you get | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
all the help you can get. We invited guests into the studio but nobody | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
was available. I'm joined by one of the writers report, and the | :24:56. | :25:02. | |
Professor of Experimental Medicine at Imperial College. You advised the | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
Government on this issue, what is the point of spending hundreds of | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
millions on Tamiflu if it doesn't work that well? It is important to | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
recognise it does work under some circumstances. It doesn't probably | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
work under some of the circumstances when we use it. But if it is used | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
early there is no doubt it is an effective antiviral drug. But the | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
researchers have gone through every piece of data and every review and | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
survey on the drug, and are you sure we shouldn't have any reservations | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
at all and say we have to have it and haven't got an option. We spend | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
?500 million on it. We have to ask Carl on t the review they have done | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
is a very useful thorough piece of work where they have looked at not | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
all the data, all the published work, and new evidence that has come | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
to light. I'm very pleased that has been done. Which the drug company | :25:55. | :25:56. | |
held on to for five years? That im think that the evidence that | :25:57. | :26:45. | |
Tamiflu is a good drug to prevent that sort of severe disease is | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
rather strong. That wasn't what the new study was about. Are you | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
actually saying we should scrap using this drug? Yes, I am saying | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
that. What we have a difference of opinion here is I'm talking to you | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
about the gold standard evidence, randomised contr trials. What Peter | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
is talking about observational data, what he sees on the ground. That is | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
a much lower level of evidence. That shouldn't be used to establish | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
treatment effectiveness. We have learned that over the last 30 years, | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
that is where we have established the Cochrane collaboration. The drug | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
isn't as effective as it might be, isn't it better than nothing in a | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
serious situation? What was shown in 2005 is in the UN report there would | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
be many deaths, only 90 worldwide at that point. Since that time we | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
purchased 14 million doses of the drug. We have had continual concerns | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
over flu. The unintended consequences is increase in | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
emergency admissions out of hours going through the roof. What should | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
happen if we use it in an intensive care population, which is an | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
interesting trial, we should do the clinical trials for that population. | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
It should be a non-manufacturer trial, but a publicly-funded trial, | :28:02. | :28:07. | |
that would provide the answer. To use observational data is | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
misleading. He says you're misleading? I don't think it is, | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
there are different standards of trial, and the standards that Carl | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
is asking for are the highest possible standards. The trouble is | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
if you restrict your evidence gathering to only those studies that | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
pass your very, very narrow, highest, most stringent standards, | :28:27. | :28:33. | |
you throw out a lot of useful information that may reflect better | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
the way in which he ought to be using these drugs. I agree this is | :28:38. | :28:44. | |
the gold standard and what we should be aspiring to, but in reality it is | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
so difficult to get public funding for studies of this sort. I would | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
love that to be easier. That is not the case, the UK has a budget of ?1. | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
4 billion year. What you are vague is not practice evidence-based | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
evidence, let's practice what we see, observation, and opinion. It is | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
clear can you do clinical trials in high-risk populations, we have done | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
it with people on the roadside when they have traffic accidents. We did | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
a trial of steroids shown to be harmful. We do need to do the | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
clinical trials. However, if we only find it useful in that small | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
population, which is important. And the immunosuppressed population, why | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
are we stockpiling it for all of us in the community. It doesn't make | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
sense. Use the money to do the important clinical trials. I totally | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
agree, we have to do evidence-based medicine, we have to do the proper | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
studies, lots of things which we thought were really beneficial we | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
have thrown out. Do you agree we should stop stockpiling? Absolutely, | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
I was on the panel that ultimately agreed we ought to stockpile. I | :29:52. | :29:54. | |
think we have to remember we were stockpiling against an eventuality | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
that was much more severe than what developed in 2009/10: Should we get | :30:00. | :30:07. | |
more Tamiflu just in case? It would be irresponsible for us not to have | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
a stockpile. If one of these highly pat though -- pathogenic strains | :30:14. | :30:22. | |
arrives, it is not that we will use it but a sensible precaution. After | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
five years to get the data from Roche, it is essential all the | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
research is given to researchers. What would you feel if we just carry | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
on buying Tamiflu? I think what's happening and the problem is, if we | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
keep buying Tamiflu we are stopping do the research and it is blocking | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
innovation to come to the best strategies. We should use that money | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
to come up with alternative strategies. You can't just go let's | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
have a fear approach to healthcare. We cannot afford to do that. We must | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
leave it there I am afraid. Thank you very much. You might not quite | :31:00. | :31:08. | |
be in time to start smashing the plates in celebration, but the put | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
upon population of Greece has something to cheer about, their | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
economy. The country today reentered the bond market. In other words | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
Greece looks a good enough bet for financial types who want to buy up | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
their debt. That means they are trusted enough to be able to pay it | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
back one day. Can we call off the euro crisis at last. I'm joined from | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
Athens by an economist who was a member of the Greek parliament until | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
a couple of years ago. And a Government minister and adviser to | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
Gordon Brown. Firstly to Athens, does it feel where you are like it | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
might be time to call off the crisis? No, I think that would be | :31:50. | :31:57. | |
completely irresponsible to say, and no-one, even those extremely happy | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
about the news today would even dare to even think something like that. | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
We're really far away from saying that the crisis is over. This is | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
just a movement that generate, if you wish, a positive signals in the | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
market that we are some how on the right track. We could have done | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
without it we never the less decided to go ahead with the issue, and that | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
is pretty much what it is so far. We should be with our heads between our | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
shoulders. Two years ago we were talking still about the potential | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
collapse of the eurozone. Greece looked like it was in massive, | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
massive problems. Nobody could have dreamt then they would be returning | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
to the markets 24-months later. Surely this is a corner being | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
turned? Yes, it means that for two years now all the European Union | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
organisations got together and tried to guarantee as much as they could | :32:56. | :33:02. | |
the coalition of the 17 member states of the eurozone so we would | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
not have one of the members fall out, and as a result the breakdown | :33:07. | :33:13. | |
of the euro. And today really what it shows, it is not just the | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
issuance of the Greek bond to the market, but really an issuance of | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
the European Union reforms that have been taking place for the last two | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
years that basically guarantee the fact that if ever Greece would have | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
a problem the organisations and institutions of the zone, the | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
eurozone are strong enough to handle it. With borrowing costs falling for | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
Greece and many of the European countries, does this show that | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
essentially the central banks have just solved it by issuing blank | :33:49. | :33:56. | |
cheques, or has austerity worked? I think it is more a reflection of the | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
state of the European, rather than the state of Greece or some other | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
countries. Some countries have done fatastically well in their reforms, | :34:04. | :34:06. | |
for example Ireland. But really I think what the market is showing its | :34:07. | :34:13. | |
confidence in is Mario Dragi saying he would do whatever it takes. The | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
head of the European Central Bank? Yes. I don't think it is a vote of | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
confidence in the economic measures. The crisis has gone from the acute | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
to the chronic. There is extremely long road ahead of reforms. The real | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
economy is still suffering. I mean Greece has had 25%, a quarter of its | :34:33. | :34:39. | |
GDP wiped out. It has unemployment, one in two young people, more than | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
one in two young people are unemployed. It actually has | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
deflation, which make its debt burden higher. The debt burden is | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
essentially unsolvable. It may have liquidity but it is unsolvable. When | :34:55. | :35:01. | |
there was those rumours of Greece crashing out of the currency with | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
unknown contagion, it is a better position that people thought we | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
would be in now? Of course it is a much better position. Because the | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
existential part of the crisis is over. However, the real crisis that | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
people feel, you know, the one in four people who are unemployed, the | :35:18. | :35:24. | |
fact that there is a debt burden, there is still going to have to be a | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
restructured of the debt to make it affordbling. What is the feeling | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
amongst people who live there, who are not paying attention to what the | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
bond markets are up to. What is the feeling of the population? I took a | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
taxi to come to the studio here and I was asking about that myself. I | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
also walked around to just let you know that there is not very much of | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
a feeling, neither of happiness nor of sadness. It is kind of neutral. | :35:53. | :35:59. | |
Very well said, we have about 60% plus youth unemployment, 30% regular | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
unemployment, Greeks have lost 30% of their GDP, as long as liquidity | :36:06. | :36:12. | |
in the market is not out there, and people don't feel that they have a | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
present let alone a future. I don't think it is appropriate to suggest | :36:17. | :36:19. | |
that anyone down the road is going to be feeling any happiness about | :36:20. | :36:26. | |
the issuance of bonds today. Is there any sense of gratitude to the | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
rest of Europe for writing those blank cheques. Angela Merkel the | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
German leader in Greece tomorrow, she was massively attacked and | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
treated with huge hostility previously, will she be, maybe not | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
welcomed, but perhaps at least tolerated when she visits tomorrow | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
do you think? I think there is a big misunderstanding here, and several | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
degrees of separation between the citizen down the street and Angela | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
Merkel and the troika and the west. What I'm trying to say is that | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
basically our problem in Greece is a structural problem. We have a broken | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
productive system, and we haven't really done very much to reform | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
that. This is what you do see daily in the streets, you see still an | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
overly bureaucratic market, an overly bureaucratic economy that | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
stifle, if you like, innovation, entrepeneurship, and the rather | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
unpredictable rules that change every day about three new taxes | :37:34. | :37:40. | |
indicators that are changing every single day that stifles people's | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
ability to do any type of activity, that is very much the view out | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
there. That is the view from Athens, but how will we however know when | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
there has been success, if it is not the markets being confident enough | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
to think that Greeks will pay their debts back, which is a big step, how | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
will we know when everything is fine? First of all I'm not saying, | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
and I don't think anybody said that the markets are confident enough to | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
think that the Greek also pay their debt back. The they are confident | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
enough to believe that the European Union and the ECB will stand behind | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
the Greek debt. There is only one test at the end of it which is | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
employment, growth, investment. And the lives of real people. That is | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
when we will know. By the way that will be years, if not longer, | :38:27. | :38:33. | |
decades perhaps. Thank you very much . Juliette Binoche and Kylie Minogue | :38:34. | :38:42. | |
aren't too shabby as partners on the potential dance floor, Akram Khan, | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
one of the best-loved British choreographers has worked with them | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
both, as well as a host of other stars. Khan, who trained as a | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
traditional Indian dancer is breaking new ground with a show he | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
devised with the English National Ballet. We have been to take a look. | :39:00. | :39:19. | |
There are many different layer that is we have to touch upon. And the | :39:20. | :39:32. | |
poetic body, the spiritual body. The politic Kalt body, the message -- | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
political body, the message you are getting through that body, it is not | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
just an athletic body, a religious body. Akram Khan, dancing the lead | :39:42. | :39:49. | |
in his own piece, Dust, at the Barbican in London. He's joined by | :39:50. | :39:56. | |
tap ma a Roho of the English National Ballet. It is an unusual | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
collaboration for a man with a background in Indian dance. But then | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
it is an unusual work, about the First World War. I was fascinated | :40:05. | :40:12. | |
about the idea of women moving from, you know, bei regarded as housewives | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
to suddenly being workers in a factory. They had to build | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
ammunition, weapons and lots of different things, they had to look | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
after wounded soldiers. And so the role of women transformed. In | :40:26. | :40:32. | |
society, the way society works and that was a pivitol moment for me. | :40:33. | :40:47. | |
The interest in me was to reflect through the idea of trenches in the | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
Second World War. I don't know if it was all method and you made them | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
live in a trench for a week? I would have loved to do that. What a good | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
idea! Now we all lead busy lives and don't get to contemporary dance as | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
often as we would like. If you are thinking you haven't seen Akram | :41:11. | :41:11. | |
Khan's work before, think again. We eventually got on stage, on that | :41:12. | :41:27. | |
day and 80,000 people went quiet. The silence of 80,000 people is very | :41:28. | :41:34. | |
loud. It is epic. So it was not silence, it was almost distorting in | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
your ears. That freaked me out a little bit! In what way, you thought | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
my gosh we are at really something special here? Something special and | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
if you mess out you don't have a second show to try to rectify it! | :41:51. | :41:58. | |
Kicking off the London Games was something the young Akram Khan could | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
hardly have dreamt of, the son of Bengali immigrants growing up over | :42:05. | :42:07. | |
their restaurant in south London. I never imagined I would be at the | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
Olympic, I remember watching the Olympics opening and being | :42:12. | :42:17. | |
completely in awe of the ceremonies that we saw, but I never thought I | :42:18. | :42:25. | |
would be part of T As dancer and choreographer, Khan's background is | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
in a classical Indian tradition. But not exclusively. I was inspired by | :42:32. | :42:42. | |
Michael Jackson, Charley chaplain, Bruce Lee, all my heros. A Newsnight | :42:43. | :43:05. | |
mash-up, apologies. But as he performs with the English National | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
Ballet by night, by day he's here rehearsing a different piece with | :43:09. | :43:11. | |
these students from the national youth dance company. They are | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
appearing at Sadler's Wells next week. Slow, slow, don't rush me, | :43:17. | :43:25. | |
pull me up, even this. It has to feel heavy. You just come out of | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
this move. It is amazing to push yourself to your limit and do things | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
to more extreme, it is more challenging, it is different to any | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
choreography I have done before. There is a lot more to it, something | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
deeper. A lot of his work is spiritual. He will come in and say | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
something, like a sentence and all of a sudden you have a whole newer P | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
pective on what -- new perspective on what the movement is and how it | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
should feel. He sheds different light on everything. This group | :43:58. | :44:06. | |
disproves the theory that watching YouTube videos makes teenagers idle. | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
It is an inspiration. We didn't have that in our time, this group are far | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
more advanced than I was when I was 16 for sure. Because they have the | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
access through the computer to so many different art forms. But for me | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
it is not the final outcome, you know. Y can't learn everything on | :44:26. | :44:35. | |
YouTube. From here, again, hold it, more, more, give more to your body. | :44:36. | :44:51. | |
You can't get it from a computer, or even from a class. Akram Khan's | :44:52. | :44:59. | |
story is that you have to dance to the beat of a different drum. The | :45:00. | :45:06. | |
choreography is just the structure for you to get through to the end. | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
Between A and B, the beginning and the end. The structure is only there | :45:13. | :45:28. | |
for it to be a guide, a Road Map. Almost as amazing as the Olympics | :45:29. | :45:35. | |
ceremony, the front pages just in. The Guardian: | :45:36. | :45:56. | |
Perish the thought that you have been checking your work e-mails | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
while watching us at the same time. But if you have been in France you | :46:02. | :46:04. | |
wouldn't have even had the chance. They have just introduced rules to | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
protect about a million workers from work e-mail outside office hours | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
between 9.00am and 6.00pm. Employees will have to switch off their work | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
phones and e-mails. We tried to talk to a French guest about this but | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
they weren't answering their devices. What could they have been | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
doing instead? Bon N uit! Temperatures falling sharply | :46:27. | :47:24. | |
outside, a chilly start to Friday morning. Cloudy across parts of the | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
Midlands and East Anglia, early showers, mist | :47:30. | :47:31. |