02/05/2014 Newsnight


02/05/2014

With Laura Kuenssberg. With 31 dead in Ukraine, will Russia invade? Plus, more on the Gerry Adams arrest, Gordon Brown on Nigeria and Will Self on the death of the serious novel.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 02/05/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

3 is people have died in western Ukraine. A building held by

:00:00.:00:11.

3 is people have died in western pro-Russian gunmen was set on fire.

:00:12.:00:15.

How can Kiev avoid a violent retaliation from the Kremlin? Also

:00:16.:00:17.

tonight, when a war ends without a retaliation from the Kremlin? Also

:00:18.:00:21.

winner, you don't usually get to arrest the enemy. So why is Gerry

:00:22.:00:25.

Adams about to spend a third night in custody? Was there an assumption

:00:26.:00:28.

the price of peace was whitewashing in custody? Was there an assumption

:00:29.:00:32.

the past? And if that no longer applies what does that mean for

:00:33.:00:36.

peace itself?ly ask the former police Watchdog in Belfast Nuala

:00:37.:00:43.

O'Loan. And Will Self on death of the serious novel. And the big

:00:44.:00:48.

internet mystery of the day. What is this? We may have ran answer.

:00:49.:01:00.

-- an answer. Good evening. Tensions in Ukraine that have been simmering

:01:01.:01:03.

for the past few weeks explode today, with deadly consequences. 31

:01:04.:01:08.

people are reported dead in a fire that broke out in the western city

:01:09.:01:15.

of who December is a during a clash between pro Russia demonstrators and

:01:16.:01:20.

porter of the Government. In Sloviansk, Ukrainian helicopters

:01:21.:01:24.

were shot down, and as the UN Security Council met in an emergency

:01:25.:01:32.

session, Moscow's add ambassador warned of catastrophic consequences.

:01:33.:01:37.

Our diplomatic editor is here with us. Mark, what has been going on

:01:38.:01:43.

today? Well, the most dangerous situation, this disturbance that

:01:44.:01:47.

happened in the port city, in the west. A crowd of people about 1,000,

:01:48.:01:52.

pro Ukrainian Government, the interim Government, were set upon by

:01:53.:01:58.

pro-Russian, we can see them in the distance there, the pro Kiev group

:01:59.:02:03.

closer to the camera. Shots were exchanged and slowly the Russian

:02:04.:02:07.

side realised they had been overmatched. They retreated to this

:02:08.:02:12.

building, the centre of the trade union movement, where they were then

:02:13.:02:15.

attacked. The police were not able to hold back, the pro Kiev mob, and

:02:16.:02:21.

Molotov cocktails were thrown. The building was set on fire and dozen

:02:22.:02:25.

of Russians died inside that building. The official Kiev

:02:26.:02:31.

Government figure is 31, with four pro Kiev demonstrators also killed

:02:32.:02:34.

on streets beforehand, but some Russian sources are saying more than

:02:35.:02:37.

50 dead. For some weeks now we have known there are many troops on the

:02:38.:02:41.

Russian board e could this be the vent that triggers the invasion? It

:02:42.:02:46.

has to look much more likely tonight. One Russian journalist I

:02:47.:02:51.

saw tweeting earlier if not now, for Putin, it is never. There is a lot

:02:52.:02:56.

feeling that this could be the trigger, equally I would differ with

:02:57.:03:00.

the never part of that analysis. Russian troops can stay there for

:03:01.:03:03.

weeks if they have to, to maintain this, but a couple of key things

:03:04.:03:06.

have happened today, if we look at the map. The first as you mentioned

:03:07.:03:12.

earlier, this anti-terrorist operation long promised. It seemed

:03:13.:03:16.

to is have petered out. That I that two of their hecks shot down,

:03:17.:03:20.

several people killed there today, we know, but the events not clear.

:03:21.:03:26.

Then tonight's awful events in the town. A few weeks ago in Crimea,

:03:27.:03:32.

people were pointing to us as it is a likely flash point. You might

:03:33.:03:36.

think why? If Russian troops want to go there they have to go the whole

:03:37.:03:39.

way across Ukraine. Well, that is the point. If they advance to the

:03:40.:03:43.

town to protect the Russian community on the back of tonight's

:03:44.:03:49.

events they create a land connection to Crimea, they also connect to a

:03:50.:03:55.

Russian break away enclave there in the west and they cut off Ukraine's

:03:56.:03:59.

access to the sea. It is a dangerous moment. As things stand tonight, do

:04:00.:04:03.

you sense there is any diplomatic way out of this without further

:04:04.:04:07.

violence? Well, there were attempts tonight in the Security Council, the

:04:08.:04:12.

13th meeting on Ukraine, but with no clear eresult, Russia saying this

:04:13.:04:17.

Geneva process that was launch two weeks' ago to deescalate the crisis

:04:18.:04:22.

is now over, it has failed. I think there will be attempts still to

:04:23.:04:25.

struggle for some international solution to this, but clearly, a

:04:26.:04:28.

significant risk tonight, that this will tip the Russians over into

:04:29.:04:31.

invasion. Thank you.

:04:32.:04:36.

Gerry Adams is right now spending a third night in a police cell. After

:04:37.:04:40.

detectives asked for more time to question him over the abduction and

:04:41.:04:46.

murder of Jean McConville in 1972. His arrest could throw policing in

:04:47.:04:50.

Northern Ireland into chaos, as his friend and colleague the Deputy

:04:51.:04:54.

First Minister Martin McGuinness hinted that Sinn Fein might look

:04:55.:04:57.

again at whether they will continue to support the Northern Irish Police

:04:58.:05:02.

Service. Last night, Jean McConville daughter

:05:03.:05:05.

told Newsnight she didn't fear the IRA any more and would disclose the

:05:06.:05:09.

names of those she believes to be responsible for her mother's death.

:05:10.:05:13.

But that conviction is not shared by her brother, or many others in the

:05:14.:05:17.

community. If fear survive, 16 years after the

:05:18.:05:21.

Good Friday Agreement, what does peace really mean the people on the

:05:22.:05:26.

ground? From Belfast here is Jim Reed.

:05:27.:05:33.

Mod developer Belfast. Young, vibrant and growing fast, with new

:05:34.:05:38.

towers and shopping centres poking up across the city. The fruits of

:05:39.:05:44.

the Good Friday Agreement, and the cash that flowed from the

:05:45.:05:50.

Government, then the private sector. On the surface, a long way from this

:05:51.:05:56.

Troubles of the past. In 1972, Jean McConville was taken from her home

:05:57.:06:02.

in the flat, a working class Catholic neighbourhood. The leader

:06:03.:06:06.

of Sinn Fein is still in police custody, answering questions about

:06:07.:06:13.

her disappearance. A new wall praising him was taking shape a

:06:14.:06:18.

stone's throw from the same estate. Things have moved on, you can tell

:06:19.:06:22.

by the nature of people in the streets. There are still a few

:06:23.:06:27.

dinosaurs about. Unfortunately on both side, and, but there are in a

:06:28.:06:32.

small minority, people are worried about social and economic issues

:06:33.:06:35.

now. The big national questions we use to paint stuff on this wall

:06:36.:06:41.

about political issues, we seldom do it because the issues have been

:06:42.:06:44.

dealt with for the first time in our lifestyles through a normal

:06:45.:06:48.

democratic process. This is the modern side of West Belfast the

:06:49.:06:53.

authorities want you to see. Smiling musician, happy sportsmen. That

:06:54.:06:57.

means a thousand Westminster welcome, but walk round the corner

:06:58.:07:02.

and there are signs things haven't completely changed.

:07:03.:07:08.

In parts of Belfast, there is still deep hatred of anyone who passes

:07:09.:07:12.

information to the police. Informant or tout in this part of the city is

:07:13.:07:18.

still a dirty word. And this idea of grassing of a tout

:07:19.:07:24.

in Northern Ireland, this still persists That persist, particularly

:07:25.:07:28.

in the Republican camps that anybody who gives evidence against another

:07:29.:07:30.

Republican, they would be classed as a tout and they have been shot

:07:31.:07:34.

because of that. That is a fact within our history, in this part of

:07:35.:07:39.

the world. Even if we are talking about historical crimes? Even very

:07:40.:07:44.

historical crime, yes. That suspicion stretches across sectarian

:07:45.:07:51.

line, in Protestant neighbourhoods new purr rams have sprung up. They

:07:52.:07:58.

still hold sway here. Just reseently this road was the

:07:59.:08:02.

scene of violent clash, full of angry young men, after Belfast City

:08:03.:08:07.

Hall passed a vote to stop the Union Jack flying all year round.

:08:08.:08:12.

People working in this community say that peace itself might have

:08:13.:08:15.

stripped some of their sense of identity.

:08:16.:08:19.

The reality is that for most people that I spoke to, and listened to

:08:20.:08:25.

more importantly, they all seem to have one common denominator, that

:08:26.:08:31.

was they felt known was listening to hem or no-one knew where they were

:08:32.:08:36.

or who they with. What is causing that? I think, it is an identity

:08:37.:08:42.

crisis, people trying to figure out indeed where they stand in this

:08:43.:08:48.

whole new regime that they exists in our country.

:08:49.:08:52.

These walls might feel like a tourist attraction, like something

:08:53.:08:54.

out of the history books but this week is a reminder that in Belfast,

:08:55.:08:59.

the ghosts of the past can still upset the present.

:09:00.:09:04.

Well, with us now from Belfast is the former police ombudsman for

:09:05.:09:08.

Northern Ireland Nuala O'Loan. Thank you for being with us. You

:09:09.:09:13.

investigated what happeneded in the Jean McConville case, how difficult

:09:14.:09:17.

was it to get at the truth in these very tight-knit communities. I think

:09:18.:09:22.

it can be profoundly difficult to get at certainly the documentation

:09:23.:09:28.

relating to these cases, I mean Jean McConville was abducted so long ago,

:09:29.:09:33.

1972, and because of that, and because of the difficulty we have

:09:34.:09:37.

round the various categories of people who have suffered, you know,

:09:38.:09:41.

people are still very much afraid of the IRA I am afraid. It is still

:09:42.:09:46.

part and there are fears about loyalist paramilitaries to. That is

:09:47.:09:50.

part of the reality here, for people who live outside the areas which

:09:51.:09:54.

were dominated and remain to a degree dominated by paramilitaries,

:09:55.:09:59.

it is different. It is very different but for people who live

:10:00.:10:03.

there it is still very tense, think, and although there is, there is one

:10:04.:10:07.

kind of a peace, there isn't a total peace yet. This has exposed then

:10:08.:10:11.

that people are way beyond being haunted by the past, there are still

:10:12.:10:16.

people who fear for their lives. I think there are people who fear,

:10:17.:10:19.

there are people who suffer terribly, there are people who were

:10:20.:10:25.

injured, decades ago, and who have no real way of earning their living,

:10:26.:10:29.

because of their injury, and yet who have no proper pension, there are

:10:30.:10:32.

still the bodies of the disappeared, Jean McConville was one of 16 people

:10:33.:10:38.

who were disappeared during the troubles, there are still seven

:10:39.:10:42.

missing, they were all taken by the IRA, and they, or other Republican

:10:43.:10:48.

paramilitary organisations, and those families need to get the

:10:49.:10:52.

bodies back, so there is a huge amount still to be done. Can the

:10:53.:10:57.

Police Service of Northern Ireland really cope with all of this?

:10:58.:11:01.

Especially today, they stand accused by Martin McGuinness now, a senior

:11:02.:11:05.

figure in the Government of being a cabal who are acting politically.

:11:06.:11:11.

Can they deal with all of this? I am fairly confident, I would say that

:11:12.:11:14.

the Police Service of Northern Ireland will have thought very

:11:15.:11:16.

seriously before they took the action which they took. They are

:11:17.:11:21.

duty bound to investigate crime where they have reasonable ground

:11:22.:11:25.

for suspecting it, and clearly, that is the position in which they have

:11:26.:11:30.

found themselves. Do you have any... Sorry? Do you have any sympathy with

:11:31.:11:35.

this suggestion that they are a political service? Can they be

:11:36.:11:41.

impartial? I don't accept they are a political service, think that

:11:42.:11:45.

nothing is perfect, and certainly in a post-conflict situation there are

:11:46.:11:48.

problems with every aspect of society, but I don't think they are

:11:49.:11:52.

a cabal. That is inappropriate language to use, I think that what

:11:53.:11:55.

we need above all in Northern Ireland is that the rule of law

:11:56.:12:00.

should apply equally throughout the country. But in... I think that for

:12:01.:12:06.

people to suggest that, you know, some people perhaps shouldn't be

:12:07.:12:09.

arrested, is perhaps a little questionable. But in the peace

:12:10.:12:15.

process though, was there not an imme it is bargaining chip that it

:12:16.:12:20.

was almost worth leaving some crimes go unpunished for the sake of peace?

:12:21.:12:26.

A number of arrangements were made, which the effect of by was that

:12:27.:12:29.

evidence which might otherwise have been used could no be used. If

:12:30.:12:34.

example guns were decommissioneded, if paramilitaries gave up their gun,

:12:35.:12:38.

any evidence that was found could not be used. If they gave

:12:39.:12:43.

information leading to the recovery of the bodies of the Disappeared the

:12:44.:12:47.

evidence associated with recovery can't be used. If somebody is

:12:48.:12:52.

convicted of a crime which was committed before the goof agreement

:12:53.:12:56.

was signed, in 1998, the maximum period in jail is two years. So

:12:57.:13:01.

there are all sorts of arrange.s, there have been a number of Royal

:13:02.:13:08.

Prerogatives royal pardon, there are all sorts of arrangements which have

:13:09.:13:12.

been made, in a way to try and move us on the a degree. But it is

:13:13.:13:16.

profoundly important, I think that we continue to operate within the

:13:17.:13:19.

rule of law and that we do investigate and prosecute. We must

:13:20.:13:23.

leave it there. Thank you for being with us tonight.

:13:24.:13:30.

Now, if ?63 billion isn't enough, what will tempt the UK

:13:31.:13:33.

pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca to give into the advances of the

:13:34.:13:38.

American Viagra maker Pfizer? The US company wants to buy the British

:13:39.:13:43.

firm to create together the biggest drug company in the world. But there

:13:44.:13:48.

are fears that such a megamerger would mean job cuts and damage to

:13:49.:13:51.

the UK's standing in science and research, but as for the firm's

:13:52.:13:56.

board and shareholders, they are yet to be convinced.

:13:57.:14:01.

Under the microscope, examining the Pfizer bid for AstraZeneca is what

:14:02.:14:04.

is occupying politicians and shareholders. The AstraZeneca board

:14:05.:14:08.

has already pronounced the current bid of ?50 a share nowhere near

:14:09.:14:13.

enough. In a statement, the company said, the financial and other terms

:14:14.:14:16.

described in the proposal are inadequate...

:14:17.:14:25.

But should a takeover go ahead at any price? A former Science Minister

:14:26.:14:31.

says Pfizer has form in taking over companies and then cutting back on

:14:32.:14:35.

vital research. Its strategy is basically not to do

:14:36.:14:39.

the R which takeover companies do and get their pipeline and drugs up

:14:40.:14:46.

that way. -- but to take over companies. Now, if you let that

:14:47.:14:50.

happen, it sends absolutely the wrong signal to industry, which

:14:51.:14:53.

says, don't put money into long-term research, just shovel assets around

:14:54.:14:57.

among yourselves. And if we do that in this country, we will not survive

:14:58.:15:01.

long-term as a great industrial power.

:15:02.:15:05.

AstraZeneca, on its own, accounts for a full 2% of UK exports. A

:15:06.:15:10.

potential takeover of such a significant company is not something

:15:11.:15:17.

the government can ignore. The decision on any merger is a

:15:18.:15:20.

decision for the two companies and a decision for their shareholders. My

:15:21.:15:24.

job is to protect the United Kingdom's interests. I want to see

:15:25.:15:28.

great science here in Britain, I want to see great medicines

:15:29.:15:32.

delivered, I want to see great jobs in these industries here in Britain.

:15:33.:15:37.

And that is why we have sought and received robust assurances from

:15:38.:15:41.

Pfizer, were a deal to go ahead. But is the Prime Minister right to

:15:42.:15:44.

describe those commitments on R and location of the company's

:15:45.:15:48.

headquarters as robust? In a letter to the Prime Minister, setting out

:15:49.:15:50.

the commitments, Pfizer says... That means at any time, they can

:15:51.:16:09.

say, we have a responsibility to increase profits to our

:16:10.:16:13.

shareholders. On that basis, we are closing this research facility or

:16:14.:16:22.

platform. So it is absolutely meaningless. That is what happened

:16:23.:16:27.

when Kraft took over Cadbury in 2010. Assurances not to close a

:16:28.:16:30.

plant near Bristol, only to announce its closure a week after the bid

:16:31.:16:33.

went through. Meanwhile, opposition politicians and others are

:16:34.:16:36.

questioning why the Government has become so involved in the details of

:16:37.:16:41.

Pfizer's bid. Industry insiders have reacted with nothing short of

:16:42.:16:44.

outrage that the board here at AstraZeneca has been sidelined,

:16:45.:16:46.

whilst the Government apparently negotiates directly with Pfizer. And

:16:47.:16:54.

there is concern that although David Cameron says it is a matter for

:16:55.:16:57.

shareholders to decide, the Government has already made up its

:16:58.:17:00.

mind that a Pfizer takeover should not be resisted.

:17:01.:17:05.

But does it really matter what nationality a company is?

:17:06.:17:09.

AstraZeneca is not perhaps as home-grown British as it may seem.

:17:10.:17:15.

AstraZeneca is not really a British company, it is a typical global

:17:16.:17:18.

multinational. It was formed from combining a British company, a

:17:19.:17:21.

Swedish company and an American company. Its CEO is French, its

:17:22.:17:25.

chairman is Swedish, and it operates in a global marketplace. That is

:17:26.:17:30.

great and terrific that it has a base in the United Kingdom, but that

:17:31.:17:34.

is for the market to end up deciding and, actually, for the shareholders

:17:35.:17:40.

of AstraZeneca to decide. What matters, agree ministers and

:17:41.:17:43.

science leaders, is that expertise and research stays in the UK and

:17:44.:17:47.

that it is not sold off, packed up and sold overseas.

:17:48.:17:53.

Where are they? More than 200 teenage girls were taken from their

:17:54.:18:00.

school in Nigeria more than two weeks ago, abducted by the terrorist

:18:01.:18:03.

group Boko Haram and spirited away to an unknown location, possibly out

:18:04.:18:06.

of their country. Efforts so far to find them by the Nigerian government

:18:07.:18:12.

have failed. Former Prime Minister Gordon Brown is travelling to

:18:13.:18:18.

Nigeria. I spoke to him earlier and we will hear how he is asking the

:18:19.:18:23.

Foreign Office to help. The agonising wait. It is more than

:18:24.:18:29.

two weeks since the girls were taken from their school in the middle of

:18:30.:18:33.

the night and as time passes, anger with the government has grown. On

:18:34.:18:39.

Wednesday, hundreds of demonstrators marched through the Nigerian capital

:18:40.:18:43.

Abuja demanding the release of the girls. Their parents criticised the

:18:44.:18:49.

search and rescue efforts, troops do not seem to be equipped for the

:18:50.:18:54.

mission, they say. It is not just a group of five, it is over 200. How

:18:55.:19:03.

will somebody tell me they do not know where they are? They give

:19:04.:19:07.

reasons for information to know whether girls are. Who is given

:19:08.:19:12.

information on the girls are taken to Cameron room? Who? There is no

:19:13.:19:18.

such information, what have they done about it? -- Cameron room.

:19:19.:19:21.

Abducted from their boarding school, the girls are mostly between

:19:22.:19:29.

16 and 18. They are thought to have been taken by the Islamist

:19:30.:19:30.

16 and 18. They are thought to have Boko Haram. It is believed they are

:19:31.:19:36.

in a forest region near the border with Cameron room but some -- near

:19:37.:19:43.

Cameroon but there are suggestions they may have left the country. The

:19:44.:19:48.

name of the group means Western education is forbidden, it has grown

:19:49.:19:53.

in prominence and an estimated 1,500 people have been killed by their

:19:54.:19:58.

attacks. Boko Haram has not yet made a response to the accusation but

:19:59.:20:02.

their leader Abubakar Shekau has previously threatened to treat

:20:03.:20:07.

captured women and girls as slaves. The group is also suspected of

:20:08.:20:12.

involvement in the bomb attack in Nigeria's capital on Thursday which

:20:13.:20:17.

killed at least 19 people and injured dozens more.

:20:18.:20:21.

Gordon Brown, you are travelling to Nigeria, what are you hoping to

:20:22.:20:26.

achieve? This is a terrible atrocity. You

:20:27.:20:31.

have got 200 girls who have been abducted from their school,

:20:32.:20:34.

kidnapped by a terrorist group. Their parents don't know whether

:20:35.:20:37.

they are alive, they don't know if they are being made into sex slaves,

:20:38.:20:41.

they don't know if they have been trafficked into the rest of Africa

:20:42.:20:44.

and dispersed. And if this had happened in Europe or America,

:20:45.:20:47.

people would be up in arms demanding action, and knowing that there was

:20:48.:20:51.

something we could do to help these girls. I would like to see some air

:20:52.:20:54.

support given internationally so that we can scan the jungle area,

:20:55.:20:58.

the forest area, to see if we can find these girls.

:20:59.:21:06.

What should the British Government do? You say you want air support,

:21:07.:21:10.

but should the British Government be involved?

:21:11.:21:13.

I am not talking about British forces in the traditional way you

:21:14.:21:17.

describe them. I have been in touch with the Foreign Secretary about

:21:18.:21:20.

whether there could be some help with air support. The Nigerian

:21:21.:21:22.

government have a difficult problem. It is a huge land area. This is a

:21:23.:21:27.

huge forest area right in the North of Nigeria, very inaccessible, and

:21:28.:21:30.

if they are going to be able to track the girls before they are

:21:31.:21:33.

dispersed throughout Africa, which is a possibility, then we do need

:21:34.:21:37.

some air support to be able to do that. In the longer run, however, we

:21:38.:21:55.

need to make these girls safe. -- schools. So I am really talking to

:21:56.:21:59.

the President in Nigeria, when I go there, about what we can do to help

:22:00.:22:03.

immediately, but what we can do so that ten million boys and girls are

:22:04.:22:07.

not discouraged from going to school in Nigeria.

:22:08.:22:09.

What did William Hague say to that request?

:22:10.:22:12.

I have been in touch with him and I am hoping that he will look at this

:22:13.:22:15.

very carefully. I am also obviously talking to the United Nations,

:22:16.:22:19.

because I am a Special Envoy, about what they can do to persuade other

:22:20.:22:22.

countries to help. But clearly, it is initially the responsibility of

:22:23.:22:25.

the Nigerian government, and they are under pressure obviously,

:22:26.:22:27.

because there are demonstrations in the streets now. There is a petition

:22:28.:22:31.

that has been signed by 120,000 people around the world, and that is

:22:32.:22:35.

only in a day, and that has gathered support. I think one of the sad

:22:36.:22:39.

things is that we've had to wait for two weeks before attention has been

:22:40.:22:42.

given to this outside Nigeria, and we have got to find a way of helping

:22:43.:22:46.

the Nigerian authorities stop schools being used as weapons of war

:22:47.:22:49.

in a terrorist battle. In that terrorist battle, a couple

:22:50.:22:53.

of years ago, you described this as being a single narrative, from the

:22:54.:22:56.

slums of Asia, to huts in Africa, to every industrial city in the Western

:22:57.:23:00.

world. Do you see this attack as part of a global ideology? I don't

:23:01.:23:04.

think I put it that way. What I did say was that there is a single

:23:05.:23:07.

demand emerging throughout the world, whether it's the Pakistani

:23:08.:23:10.

girls that supported Malala when she was shot, whether it's girls

:23:11.:23:13.

campaigning against child marriage in Bangladesh, or whether it's the

:23:14.:23:16.

protests in Africa where people are demanding education. This is a civil

:23:17.:23:19.

rights issue. Girls are demanding education, girls in particular.

:23:20.:23:24.

What hope do you think you will be able to give to these Nigerian

:23:25.:23:27.

families who, right now, don't know if they will ever see their

:23:28.:23:30.

daughters again? This is unimaginable for a parent

:23:31.:23:32.

because they don't know whether their girls are dead or are now

:23:33.:23:36.

becoming sex slaves or married off, and they don't know whether they've

:23:37.:23:39.

been trafficked into another country and can never be found again. So we

:23:40.:23:49.

have got to do what we can to help them. Of course, there is only a

:23:50.:23:54.

certain amount we can do, but we have got to reassure people that

:23:55.:23:57.

schools will be protected zones in the future, that the United Nations

:23:58.:24:00.

law about hospitals and schools and UN buildings can be observed, and it

:24:01.:24:05.

may be that we have got to be far more visible in the way we identify

:24:06.:24:09.

schools, so that they can never be targets for terrorism again. But

:24:10.:24:12.

what is happening in Nigeria, if there is no international protest,

:24:13.:24:15.

is that this will go on and on. We have got to stand up to terrorism

:24:16.:24:19.

here and we have got to support the families.

:24:20.:24:23.

Now, are you more likely to be found with a copy of Ulysses, Bringing up

:24:24.:24:29.

the Bodies, or, well, Fifty Shades of Grey? Or, actually, are you just

:24:30.:24:33.

as likely to have one eye on the TV screen, the other on your phone, and

:24:34.:24:37.

have given up reading anything with fibre in it years ago? As we choose

:24:38.:24:41.

to read more and more online, are we also increasing, just picking the

:24:42.:24:49.

easy stuff? -- in increasingly. The writer Will Self believes that

:24:50.:24:51.

serious works, 'difficult books', are under serious threat. He is with

:24:52.:24:57.

us now. You say that the literary novel is dying, does it really have

:24:58.:25:01.

no future? I think it definitely has a future that it is a future as a

:25:02.:25:10.

minor artwork. An easel painting or on a good day, probably classical

:25:11.:25:17.

music. That is still evolving, people are writing classical music.

:25:18.:25:25.

But it would be very unusual for a Premier to gain the same attention

:25:26.:25:31.

as that of a movie. What is wrong with people choosing the box more

:25:32.:25:37.

for pleasure? Do you want people to read books that good for them that

:25:38.:25:43.

they might not enjoy? -- people choosing books. This is not about

:25:44.:25:50.

content and difficult verses easy. It is not directly. It is an

:25:51.:26:00.

argument about the impact of the Internet. This is the question you

:26:01.:26:07.

have to ask yourself if you do not believe that the serious novel is

:26:08.:26:13.

under threat. Do you believe that in 20 years' time, the majority of text

:26:14.:26:17.

will be read digitally, and I think most people agree that will be the

:26:18.:26:22.

case and it is going that way very rapidly. Secondly, do you believe it

:26:23.:26:28.

will be read on devices that can connect to the web? Yes,

:26:29.:26:32.

undoubtedly. Do you believe that people will follow Terry disable

:26:33.:26:39.

their web connection to read prose fiction? -- involuntarily. People

:26:40.:26:44.

not concentrating on a serious book because they are reading yet on

:26:45.:26:51.

their Kindle? And e-book sales fell in America last year and hard book

:26:52.:26:58.

sales went up. That may be a status thing. It is not that I think people

:26:59.:27:03.

are not capable of concentrating. Actually, it is! In your injured up

:27:04.:27:15.

soon, it you cited Joyce's Ulysses. Even a well educated, intelligent

:27:16.:27:22.

reader will not understand things on the first, second, even third

:27:23.:27:25.

reached through the novel. Most editions come with footnotes, but

:27:26.:27:32.

when you read it in analogue form, there is a limited amount of looking

:27:33.:27:39.

got you can do and there is a degree of deep absorption in the text that

:27:40.:27:46.

requires concentration that is prepared not to understand. --

:27:47.:27:52.

looking up. It will encounter a point of information they do not

:27:53.:27:56.

immediately comprehend and they will discover it in context. The web

:27:57.:28:00.

connection introduces the idea it you could solve that problem. -- the

:28:01.:28:09.

idea that you could. So is digital media making a stupid? No, I am not

:28:10.:28:16.

attacking digital media, it is more profound about it -- of more

:28:17.:28:21.

profound than that, it is about the human psychology. Each major

:28:22.:28:29.

technical change in media rings a different psychology. The psychology

:28:30.:28:33.

that produced the novel is not the same as the psychology we will

:28:34.:28:44.

have... -- brings. You said you are reading 150 box at a time, are you

:28:45.:28:53.

guilty as charged? -- 150 books. Are you incapable of reading without

:28:54.:28:58.

getting distracted? Chatting to people on Facebook? I do not

:28:59.:29:04.

necessarily do that and I have my problems. In 2003, 2004, those of us

:29:05.:29:13.

a tiny bit older remember the dial-up connection noise and that

:29:14.:29:18.

switch to wireless broadband, I stopped writing my own fiction on a

:29:19.:29:22.

computer because I registered that being able to switch from labouring

:29:23.:29:27.

on your careful prose to buying reindeer of gloves or seeing what it

:29:28.:29:32.

looks like when somebody does something ridiculous is to tempting.

:29:33.:29:40.

-- ovengloves. One critic is very disappointed in you and says

:29:41.:29:45.

everybody is delivering the death sentence to the novel and he wants

:29:46.:29:49.

to know what deathbed novel you are writing? I have just finished a

:29:50.:29:55.

sequel to my last novel. On brow. The serious novel will continue to

:29:56.:29:58.

be read. -- umbrella. The serious novel will continue to

:29:59.:30:08.

not have the same range as it used to.

:30:09.:30:12.

That is it for tonight. We leave you with the internet mystery that has

:30:13.:30:15.

got tech journalists the world over scratching their heads. Last

:30:16.:30:17.

September, a mysterious French YouTuber began uploading 11 second

:30:18.:30:20.

videos of uniquely shaped red and blue blocks, each one lasting just

:30:21.:30:24.

one second, each one with a different accompanying computer

:30:25.:30:27.

tone. 80,000 videos later, the uploading just stopped. It has all

:30:28.:30:35.

led to some pretty wild speculation. Is it a spy code? A video test

:30:36.:30:37.

signal? A Is it a spy code? A video test

:30:38.:30:40.

conspiracy theorists can now sleep easy,

:30:41.:30:42.

conspiracy theorists can now sleep for them. See if you can spot it.

:30:43.:30:45.

Good night.

:30:46.:30:49.

With 31 dead in Ukraine, will Russia invade? Plus, more on the arrest of Gerry Adams, drugs firm AstraZeneca rejects a new takeover offer from Pfizer, Gordon Brown on Nigeria and Will Self on the death of the serious novel.


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS