15/05/2014 Newsnight


15/05/2014

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.


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Turkey's grief turns to rage, can the Turkish Government's response to

:00:12.:00:17.

the terrible mining disaster get any worse. We will ask the chairman of

:00:18.:00:23.

Turkey's Committee on Foreign Relations. He took President Obama

:00:24.:00:32.

to the White House, David Axelrod has landed. If you put the glasses

:00:33.:00:40.

on, you should be able to see it in a few days. A success story with a

:00:41.:00:49.

lot of torque. Bond Lear villa for rent, hundreds ofms below surface

:00:50.:00:57.

for rent. One MasterChef says it is fabulous. I will be on Newsnight

:00:58.:01:07.

talking about growing underground. Good evening, the outrage at the

:01:08.:01:13.

Turk irk Prime Minister's handling of the worst mining disaster his

:01:14.:01:17.

country has ever seen, was only compounded today of an image that

:01:18.:01:23.

showed his political aide kicking a protestor during the protest of the

:01:24.:01:26.

visit to the mine yesterday. Thousands of people have felt

:01:27.:01:32.

teargas and water canon on cities across Turkey, in three days of

:01:33.:01:37.

morning for the dead. 284 so fashion and 150 still missing deep

:01:38.:01:41.

underground. The first funerals were held today amidst accusations that

:01:42.:01:44.

the privatisation of the mining sector has made working conditions

:01:45.:01:57.

more dangerous. This was twins, 32-year-old and working at the mine,

:01:58.:02:02.

on Wednesday they were buried together in the home town. Their's

:02:03.:02:07.

the first of many funerals up and down western Turkey, this is the

:02:08.:02:11.

country's worst mining disaster and the death toll keeps rising. With it

:02:12.:02:15.

a sense of outrage directed at pretty much anyone in authority.

:02:16.:02:22.

This was the scene in Soma when the Prime Minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan

:02:23.:02:26.

came to pay his respects. His official c surrounded, battered,

:02:27.:02:33.

almost overwhelmed. And a walk about that seemed to go badly wrong. Video

:02:34.:02:38.

of the Prime Minister's defensive reaction has been published on

:02:39.:02:40.

newspaper websites. And so have these, pictures of a member of his

:02:41.:02:47.

staff kicking a protestor. Is this, people wonder, the authentic face of

:02:48.:02:51.

the Government's response. We must understand that the tragedy happened

:02:52.:02:56.

in a country that was already polarised enough, in a country where

:02:57.:03:00.

there was already a lot of anger and division. Both the people who

:03:01.:03:03.

support the party, and people who are against the party are more

:03:04.:03:07.

consolidated, if you will. And the gap between these two segments of

:03:08.:03:11.

the Turkish population is quite large now. The Prime Minister's

:03:12.:03:17.

first press conference after the disaster was less than impressive

:03:18.:03:21.

too. The pristine formal setting seemed a million miles from the soot

:03:22.:03:25.

and grief of Soma. The Prime Minister promised a thorough

:03:26.:03:28.

investigation, but then launched into a carefully-prepared catalogue

:03:29.:03:32.

of mine disasters throughout history, including England's worst

:03:33.:03:40.

at Oak's colliery near Barnsley in 1836. TRANSLATION: These kind of

:03:41.:03:45.

accidents happen continually, unfortunately. But anger about

:03:46.:03:51.

events in Soma has spread, this was a port city today, protests dealt

:03:52.:03:56.

with in familiar fashion by Turkey's heavy-handed police. There were

:03:57.:03:59.

demonstrations elsewhere and a nationwide strike by unions

:04:00.:04:03.

demanding better working conditions. Even before Tuesday's disaster,

:04:04.:04:07.

safety at the Soma mine had been questioned. Opposition MPs demanded

:04:08.:04:12.

an inquiry, and an effort rejected by the Prime Minister's own ruling

:04:13.:04:18.

party just last month. One of his allies was grilled on TV about why

:04:19.:04:26.

he dismissed the inquiry as trivial and petty. Is this a party and Prime

:04:27.:04:29.

Minister increasingly out-of-touch. I do believe his image has been

:04:30.:04:34.

tarnished, most alarmingly. The messages that he has been given, you

:04:35.:04:38.

know, recently, I find it very problematic. It sounds as if he

:04:39.:04:42.

cares mostly for the people who voted for him, but what about the

:04:43.:04:46.

other half of the Turkish population. I think as a result

:04:47.:04:50.

people feel distanced, belittled, and that increases the frustration

:04:51.:04:58.

and anger. So is this another moment, a repoet of last summer's

:04:59.:05:02.

burst of anger against an authoritarian Government. Not yet.

:05:03.:05:11.

The last protests was primarily missle class, university educated

:05:12.:05:18.

youth in Turkey, expressing their deep dissatisfaction of the type of

:05:19.:05:22.

governance by Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Where as Soma was a man made

:05:23.:05:28.

disaster, again and the level of protests has been much, much lower.

:05:29.:05:34.

The Turkish President visited the mine today, showing rather more

:05:35.:05:38.

empathy than the Prime Minister 24-hours earlier. But emotions are

:05:39.:05:44.

still running high. The mine was privatised by this Government,

:05:45.:05:49.

people wonder if crony capitalism is partly to blame. They will be

:05:50.:05:53.

burying the dead for days, possibly weeks to come. Turkey's unenviable

:05:54.:06:00.

record on industrial safety has deteriorated even further. Could all

:06:01.:06:04.

this still come back to haunt the country's Prime Minister. We have a

:06:05.:06:10.

member of Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Government and chairman of Turkey's

:06:11.:06:15.

foreign affairs committee. He joins me from Istanbul. When the political

:06:16.:06:21.

opposition called for an inquiry into work place safety, they cited

:06:22.:06:26.

Soma as one of the offenders. Was it now a dreadful mistake for the

:06:27.:06:29.

Government to vote against the idea of that inquiry? Well, I think the

:06:30.:06:41.

picture should be seen in its own perspective. In the parliament work

:06:42.:06:45.

the sessions start with the opposition taking the floor and

:06:46.:06:48.

asking for investigations or formation of committees. And if we

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had really formed those committees we would have more than 500

:06:55.:07:04.

different investigations had. But you have a poor record on industrial

:07:05.:07:07.

safety, did you vote against the idea of having this inquiry? Well

:07:08.:07:16.

this inquiry was voted yes, the Government party rejected this. But

:07:17.:07:22.

it wasn't just because it was on the new measures on the mine industry's

:07:23.:07:30.

security. But normally we have really closed over 100 mines in the

:07:31.:07:35.

last few years, and this particular mine was investigated twice last

:07:36.:07:42.

year and it was investigated this March. Nothing wrong was found

:07:43.:07:49.

there. I think what the position was doing was perhaps correct, but it

:07:50.:07:54.

wasn't exactly to an investigation commission cturing. It was just to

:07:55.:08:00.

take the time of the parliament. Two things, these checks weren't carried

:08:01.:08:09.

out without warning. But secondly the company involved in the mine

:08:10.:08:13.

said in 2012, it boasted it had dropped the cost per tonne for

:08:14.:08:20.

extraction from the mine from $140 to just under $24. Didn't that set

:08:21.:08:27.

off alarm bells? That shouldn't be looked at like that. When you have

:08:28.:08:31.

privatisation, or if you are having a private sector working anywhere,

:08:32.:08:38.

the costs go really below the Government functioning of any

:08:39.:08:44.

institution. You can't say that because that. That is a radical

:08:45.:08:49.

drop? You can't say the security also went down. The security went

:08:50.:08:54.

down as well. You heard the dismay that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip

:08:55.:09:00.

Erdogan's speech about the disaster caused, particularly when he said

:09:01.:09:04.

these disasters were not quite common place, and cited disasters

:09:05.:09:08.

around the world, including one going back to 1860 in Britain. Has

:09:09.:09:13.

the Prime Minister misread not only the domestic mood but the

:09:14.:09:16.

international mood about the disaster? Well that I think, you

:09:17.:09:20.

should look at the picture correctly. The Prime Minister

:09:21.:09:25.

cancelled his visit to Albania, he was supposed to be there. He

:09:26.:09:31.

convened the ministerial council and declared the three days mourning. He

:09:32.:09:35.

sent the minister of energy there, the minister is there for three days

:09:36.:09:38.

now. Every minister relevant was there. He went there personal. Why

:09:39.:09:44.

did he have to make historical speeches about something that is

:09:45.:09:47.

very real and immediate to hundreds of families? Well it wasn't

:09:48.:09:53.

something historical. It was answering a question and he just

:09:54.:09:57.

gave some examples. That was all. But what he did was actually he

:09:58.:10:05.

wanted to comfort the people by going there. He has instructed an

:10:06.:10:10.

amount equal to the salary to be paid to the families of the lost

:10:11.:10:14.

miners. He ordered also an investigation. He said that if this

:10:15.:10:20.

investigation result proves that anybody is guilty he will not be, or

:10:21.:10:26.

she will not be tolerated. You said the Prime Minister went there to

:10:27.:10:31.

caress the people, what was his aide doing kicking a protestor then,

:10:32.:10:34.

kicking a member of the family. Should that aide be sacked now?

:10:35.:10:40.

Well, look, the Prime Minister didn't kick anybody. I said his

:10:41.:10:45.

aide, his aide? That is an individual issue, somebody from his

:10:46.:10:48.

staff did that, but he also made a statement that he was deeply

:10:49.:10:51.

saddened that he couldn't control himself. Should he be sacked? In the

:10:52.:10:58.

provocations. You should take that as a young person who lost his

:10:59.:11:02.

nerves. You cannot attach this to the Prime Minister at all. I would

:11:03.:11:07.

just like to ask you, you are a senior politician. He went there to

:11:08.:11:11.

find a solution to the problem, if somebody from his staff... I have to

:11:12.:11:15.

press the point, to be absolutely clear, you are a very senior

:11:16.:11:18.

politician, it is the Prime Minister's aide, this isn't some

:11:19.:11:25.

ingenue, when an image of him kicking a protestor or a member of a

:11:26.:11:30.

bereaved family and you think this is an action of an individual that

:11:31.:11:33.

perhaps was inexperienced, surely the least the Prime Minister should

:11:34.:11:37.

be doing is censoring that and saying that aide should be

:11:38.:11:41.

dismissed? Well, you haven't seen the end of the story yet. We are in

:11:42.:11:49.

a very difficult moment. The worst disaster happened, funerals are

:11:50.:11:55.

taking place we are still looking after the people mission. Under

:11:56.:12:00.

these circumstances I think we shou, everybody should wait for a few days

:12:01.:12:04.

in order to see what measures are being taken or if a Prime Minister's

:12:05.:12:08.

aide is dismissed or not. I think looking at the picture today from

:12:09.:12:15.

that perspective is wrong. We are really suffering, everybody is very

:12:16.:12:20.

sad and we're trying to go into the mind, trying to find the missing

:12:21.:12:25.

miners alive or dead and at this point I think looking to the

:12:26.:12:31.

particular case of a aide of the Prime Minister is wrong. Thank you

:12:32.:12:35.

very much. All the measures will be taken and the investigation will be

:12:36.:12:39.

on and if there is anything missing in this security of the mines in

:12:40.:12:47.

Turkey, new additional measures will be taken. I think looking at the

:12:48.:12:51.

perspective from one person kicking another is wrong. We are really

:12:52.:12:56.

suffering from a worst mine disaster. The population is very

:12:57.:13:01.

sad, families are very sad, and the Government is announcing it will

:13:02.:13:05.

take all the measures necessary. Thank you very much, I'm affray we

:13:06.:13:09.

have to stop you there. We have run out of time. Ed Miliband welcomed

:13:10.:13:14.

his star signing to his Shadow Cabinet meeting today. David

:13:15.:13:19.

Axelrod, the man credited with putting President Obama in the White

:13:20.:13:24.

House jetted in for two days of intensive meetings as polls have

:13:25.:13:27.

questioned Ed Miliband's leadership by putting the Conservatives ahead

:13:28.:13:31.

for the first time in more than two years. They were having dinner

:13:32.:13:36.

tonight, so perhaps they are sitting with whiskeys working out what

:13:37.:13:42.

material Axelrod has to work with. If only it were this ey to pull off

:13:43.:13:51.

an Obama-style victory, a few striking colours but Ed Miliband is

:13:52.:13:55.

finding change isn't always a simple message to spell. Step forward the

:13:56.:14:03.

newest member of Team Miliband, David Axelrod, meeting the cabinet

:14:04.:14:08.

today, he was President Obama's strategist. Labour insiders are

:14:09.:14:12.

saying this isn't a Labour makeover, you don't get someone of his calibre

:14:13.:14:16.

saying this isn't a Labour makeover, to tell you what tie to wear, said

:14:17.:14:20.

one, although they were wearing the same colour time. It is about

:14:21.:14:23.

helping Labour frame and communicate its message. He can frame messages,

:14:24.:14:31.

soundbites, speeches, the way Ed Miliband sound and looks. Now there

:14:32.:14:35.

is nothing there that the Labour Party couldn't work out for itself.

:14:36.:14:42.

But never underestimate the power of an expensive outsider to make things

:14:43.:14:50.

happen. If we look at all voting intention polls since 2010, it

:14:51.:14:55.

appears that Labour's lead has waxed and waned, indeed two polls this

:14:56.:15:00.

week gave the Conservatives a slight lead. Not perhaps where Labour needs

:15:01.:15:08.

to be a year out from an election. What can David Axelrod do, I met him

:15:09.:15:15.

in New Hampshire at 2008 at the start of Barack Obama's first

:15:16.:15:17.

presidential campaign. Then he had an even bigger hill to climb, with

:15:18.:15:23.

Obama 20 points behind in the national poll One state at a time,

:15:24.:15:28.

we said when we were 30 points behind national polls we said it

:15:29.:15:33.

starts in Iowa. Then the candidate was largely unknown to the American

:15:34.:15:38.

people a year before polling day. The task was to introduce him in the

:15:39.:15:44.

most positive and exciting day. Way. For Ed Miliband to get here as Prime

:15:45.:15:49.

Minister, it looks harder. He has already been Labour leader for

:15:50.:15:52.

three-and-a-half years. Before that he was in the cabinet, so many

:15:53.:15:57.

British voters have already formed an opinion as to who he is and what

:15:58.:16:05.

he stands for. If the polls are accurate, that opinion isn't

:16:06.:16:09.

favourable. Just 19% of voters see him as the best Prime Minister, as

:16:10.:16:14.

opposed to 36% for David Cameron and 5% for Nick Clegg. That is actually

:16:15.:16:18.

a worst position for Ed Miliband than he was when he first became

:16:19.:16:21.

Labour leader. Ed Miliband comes across to millions of voters as a

:16:22.:16:27.

very bright, very argumentative, undergraduate. We doesn't have the

:16:28.:16:33.

gravitas, he doesn't look like he's serious number, a man with gravitas

:16:34.:16:39.

who can run the country. What he has to do in his speeches at prime

:16:40.:16:43.

ministers' questions and interviews, is to be less argumentative and more

:16:44.:16:48.

magisterial so he sounds as if he's in the job already. Labour's best

:16:49.:16:53.

period, according to the polls, started after the budget in March

:16:54.:16:58.

2012. A series of coalition tax announcements on caravans, hot food

:16:59.:17:02.

and charities that rapidly unravelled helped matters

:17:03.:17:06.

considerably. Even people within Downing Street are calling it an

:17:07.:17:16.

omnishambles budget. But if we look at a graph for polling on the

:17:17.:17:20.

economy, since the last election, Labour has been consistently behind

:17:21.:17:26.

since early 201, and now that -- 2013, now that gap seems to be

:17:27.:17:32.

widening. He predistribution says we can't allow ourselves to be stuck...

:17:33.:17:37.

Ed Miliband has introduced new language into the debate, like

:17:38.:17:47.

"predistribution", Mr Axelrod's job is to refine these. Labour needs to

:17:48.:17:57.

have a critque of this the largeage, like the kind you would have in work

:17:58.:18:01.

or the supermarket that says this is what's wrong with the economy, these

:18:02.:18:05.

people have all of the money and power in society and it needs to be

:18:06.:18:08.

shared more equally. And getting that kind of message out I think is

:18:09.:18:12.

one that is popular and speaks to what Labour is good at and what the

:18:13.:18:16.

Conservatives aren't. Any honest election guru will admit there is a

:18:17.:18:20.

limit to what any election guru can do, they can shape and polish, frame

:18:21.:18:25.

and label. The people around Ed Miliband say they have the ideas and

:18:26.:18:28.

the message, all they are looking for is a bit of help in getting them

:18:29.:18:36.

across. Joining me now is Ed Miliband's biographer and political

:18:37.:18:39.

editor for the Huffington Post UK. Phil Collins a former Tony Blair

:18:40.:18:46.

speechwriter, and Lorraine Candy the Editor in Chief of Elle. The subject

:18:47.:18:56.

tonight is Ed Miliband. Does he need to make a new political narrative

:18:57.:19:01.

for him? A bit of both. This question of image, Ed Miliband's

:19:02.:19:04.

makeover that Phil's paper was talking about today, clearly

:19:05.:19:09.

undeniably he has an image problem. We shouldn't exaggerate it, there

:19:10.:19:14.

was talk of gravitas and looking primesal. The best way to look --

:19:15.:19:21.

prime ministerial. There is always that talk the best way to be prime

:19:22.:19:25.

ministerial is to be Prime Minister! We in the media are obsessed with

:19:26.:19:31.

the leader, if you look at the academic evidence who study this,

:19:32.:19:35.

they say people don't vote on the basis of leaders, we don't have this

:19:36.:19:38.

presidential system. Journalists love debating it but it doesn't

:19:39.:19:42.

affect the outcome of the next election. There he is behind on

:19:43.:19:45.

polling on the economy, and he thought he would breakthrough on

:19:46.:19:48.

cost of living, he was punting that and he still hasn't managed to make

:19:49.:19:53.

narrative out of that, that has been stopped dead in its tracks? We don't

:19:54.:19:58.

want to be distracted by the image part of it. It is not the most

:19:59.:20:02.

important part, it is what it is. He came out in one poll as being very

:20:03.:20:06.

honest, the public said they felt he was honest. I would think that is a

:20:07.:20:09.

positive thing for someone talking to the public about cost of living.

:20:10.:20:13.

You want honesty around that. What he looks like and wears is

:20:14.:20:16.

incredibly important, but it is not the only thing. Nobody ever has an

:20:17.:20:23.

image problem that doesn't have a problem beneath T I'm a big fan of

:20:24.:20:28.

Ed Miliband, I think he's very good at getting the message out. The

:20:29.:20:31.

message is the problem. It is not that he is unable to articulate what

:20:32.:20:35.

he thinks, he's been very clear about his analysis of capitalism, a

:20:36.:20:39.

series of retail policies that are re clear. You think him standing at

:20:40.:20:44.

a podium talking about redistribution is getting across

:20:45.:20:48.

well. That is an important message about distribution of wealth. Energy

:20:49.:20:53.

prices. He made the weather on energy and then he fell away. He

:20:54.:20:56.

couldn't carry it through, why is that? The reason for that, he has a

:20:57.:21:00.

series of things that are in themselves popular adding up to

:21:01.:21:03.

something that is proving not to be popular. The reason is he's not a

:21:04.:21:07.

credible messenger for that story. Would you have said the same about

:21:08.:21:10.

Margaret Thatcher? At the moment he's an underdog and people tend to,

:21:11.:21:14.

it is a long time before the election in terms of politics and

:21:15.:21:17.

voting and actual three what women think, and I keep being told what

:21:18.:21:21.

women think over the next year is really, really important. How does

:21:22.:21:24.

he, does he appeal to women actually? I think of all of them

:21:25.:21:30.

he's possibly, possibly could be the most appealing, but we don't know

:21:31.:21:34.

about the women around him. His wife is incredibly intelligent,

:21:35.:21:37.

incredibly likeable, we don't know that much, but if a woman like that

:21:38.:21:43.

loves a man like then the package I need to know more about as a

:21:44.:21:46.

possible voter. The package was not just about Obama but about Michelle,

:21:47.:21:53.

and the same about Samantha Cameron? His brand and image, right at the

:21:54.:21:58.

beginning, their family and her was incredibly important. If you look at

:21:59.:22:02.

the pictures of Ed Miliband with his family in a more relaxed way, with

:22:03.:22:09.

his great v-neck sweater. We don't see enough and that is important.

:22:10.:22:12.

That is the family argument where the woman stands behind the arm? It

:22:13.:22:18.

is about how you sell yourself, we live in a TV age of three main media

:22:19.:22:24.

advisers all ex-politicians. Margaret Thatcher in 1979 was a

:22:25.:22:28.

substantive figure, she came to office and made radical changes, she

:22:29.:22:32.

was seen as shrill and weird, she trailed Jim Callaghan by 22 points

:22:33.:22:36.

in the polls on the personal approval ratings on the eve of the

:22:37.:22:41.

election she won on in a landslide. John Major won by more votes in

:22:42.:22:46.

history and he wasn't a charismatic man. The idea that Ed Miliband can

:22:47.:22:50.

sell himself on the notion much family, given how he won the Labour

:22:51.:22:54.

leadership election is a total fantasy. That is interesting, I

:22:55.:22:58.

wonder if you think that lingers? Of course it lingers, of course it

:22:59.:23:03.

does, people don't know a great deal about it. And people aren't going to

:23:04.:23:08.

vote for him. I don't think you are sell him on the notion of family,

:23:09.:23:12.

that is not what he's going to be talking about, his policies aren't

:23:13.:23:15.

just the notion of family, it is an element of it. I'm saying as a man

:23:16.:23:20.

who is possibly going under a rebrand with someone else in charge

:23:21.:23:23.

it would be good to know more about him personally and see a relaxed

:23:24.:23:27.

side to get the message across. Do we live in a less political age,

:23:28.:23:31.

more presidential p you talk about the TV debates? I think we live in a

:23:32.:23:37.

much more visual age, women and younger voters do everything

:23:38.:23:40.

visually. Even if you are eight or nine you can change and filter your

:23:41.:23:45.

image that you put out on Facebook and other media. We are used to

:23:46.:23:49.

people changing their images, we are distrustful because we can do it

:23:50.:23:54.

ourselves. You need to be aof that. How do they make a trustworthy

:23:55.:23:59.

image? They need to make him feel more relaxed. He's a very

:24:00.:24:03.

intelligent man. I don't want to go to the pub with a man running the

:24:04.:24:08.

country, I want someone really clever running the country. He's

:24:09.:24:11.

very relaxed and good under pressure, a good performer, there

:24:12.:24:14.

have been times when he has performed very well. Maybe it is

:24:15.:24:17.

right there are times when his language was too complex. But he's

:24:18.:24:21.

starting to distill a story. We have to think is this the correct story,

:24:22.:24:26.

why is it he doesn't have the credibility, why are his ratings as

:24:27.:24:30.

a potential Prime Minister so low. Does David Axelrod align him to the

:24:31.:24:37.

Obama story. He has been saying the democrats and Labour have different

:24:38.:24:43.

issues by share a common goal and this will be a big and important

:24:44.:24:49.

election. Is he right? I agree I think the issue is not just about

:24:50.:24:53.

growth, it is about who get the growth. We have seen a report is the

:24:54.:25:01.

increases in tax share. We talk about Barack Obama, and who he issed

:25:02.:25:06.

leading on the economy. -- who is leading on the economy, he was

:25:07.:25:12.

behind in the polls against Mitt Romney about leading the economy. He

:25:13.:25:17.

did a heresy, he shifted to the left and started talking about inequality

:25:18.:25:21.

and tax rises and it worked. Here you have it it was said there that

:25:22.:25:25.

you bring in somebody who costs an awful lot of money and think that

:25:26.:25:29.

will work, do you think he can make the difference between propelling Ed

:25:30.:25:33.

Miliband to Downing Street or not? I think it is very interesting the

:25:34.:25:35.

point you made about bringing an outsider in, bringing somebody who

:25:36.:25:40.

thinks about it in a totally different way. Obama is a different

:25:41.:25:44.

things, if I talk about female voters there is not a woman in the

:25:45.:25:49.

country who wouldn't want to go to dinner with Barack Obama, I'm not

:25:50.:25:53.

sure about planed at the moment. Someone coming in from the -- Ed

:25:54.:25:57.

Miliband at the moment. Someone coming in from the outside, as a

:25:58.:26:03.

voter, it can make a twist. He's far too good to think he can do what he

:26:04.:26:07.

did for Barack Obama to Ed Miliband. That is partly because it is not

:26:08.:26:10.

America, and partly when Labour is so far behind on the economy, it is

:26:11.:26:14.

the 11th hour, it is too late to change it. Too late? Tony Blair was

:26:15.:26:24.

22 points behind John Major in the 1997 election and won the election

:26:25.:26:29.

that was on economy. Pfizer has brought concerns about

:26:30.:26:33.

takeovers for British business, some are worried about a long-term threat

:26:34.:26:37.

to Britain's science base and manufacturing sector. Kraft Food's

:26:38.:26:45.

takeover of Cadbury was followed by a closing factory and job losses,

:26:46.:26:49.

despite promises. Can overseas ownership be good for British

:26:50.:26:59.

business, some with the best marks. Over the last couple of weeks you

:27:00.:27:05.

would be forgiven for thinking that foreign takeovers of British firms

:27:06.:27:09.

are something to fear. But do overseas owners kill jobs? Not

:27:10.:27:13.

always. Damage our skill base? Not necessarily. Are they bad for

:27:14.:27:17.

long-term investment? Not everywhere. Immediate the modern,

:27:18.:27:25.

not so British car industry. Britain benefits massively from being open

:27:26.:27:30.

to investment. Nissan is now producing more cars than the whole

:27:31.:27:35.

of Italy. Since the recession motor manufacturing has been one of the

:27:36.:27:38.

bright spots of the UK economy. Investment is up, exports are up,

:27:39.:27:44.

and employment is up. So why have foreign takeovers here worked out so

:27:45.:27:48.

well. And what lessons can other parts of the economy learn from its

:27:49.:27:58.

success. Nowadays there are six big car manufacturers in the UK, all of

:27:59.:28:03.

them foreign owned. Back in the 1970s, the British car industry was

:28:04.:28:10.

mostly still, well, British. But car production was falling. It only

:28:11.:28:13.

began to rise again from the mid-1980s. With the opening of

:28:14.:28:17.

Japanese and other foreign-owned plants. The global recession hit

:28:18.:28:23.

demand for cars especially hard, now though it is on the up and expected

:28:24.:28:27.

to hit a record level by 017. And about 80% of these cars will go

:28:28.:28:39.

abroad. The industry was once the go-to example of Britain's status as

:28:40.:28:43.

an economic failure. Plaged by difficult trade unions, chronic

:28:44.:28:47.

underestimate, and widespread inefficiency. It didn't help that

:28:48.:28:53.

Britain generally made rubbish cars to boot. You have had some bad

:28:54.:28:59.

experiences with the British cars. The bottom dropped out of the Ford

:29:00.:29:04.

after nine months. Have you tried British cars? I had a Jag before

:29:05.:29:08.

that and Fords, it was the usual trip down to the garage every

:29:09.:29:14.

fortnight. You mate remember the Triumph TR-7, a typical British car

:29:15.:29:18.

from the 1970s, a commercial failure like a lot of those cars. Now things

:29:19.:29:22.

are very different. Smart Government policy is helping the industry to

:29:23.:29:26.

grow, with things like training and research and development. Back in

:29:27.:29:29.

the 1970s policy was very different. It was about cobbling firms

:29:30.:29:34.

together, bailing out losers and in the end the Government owned a huge

:29:35.:29:40.

chunk of the STLI. -- industry, we all know how well that turned out.

:29:41.:29:44.

There are three reasons why the UK is so attractive to the sector,

:29:45.:29:48.

firstly, a high-quality, flexible Labour force, which has a long track

:29:49.:29:52.

record now of successfully building quality product d. Secondly our

:29:53.:29:56.

manufacturing processes are now globaling adopted. And they aredly,

:29:57.:30:00.

interestingly, I think the relationship between Government and

:30:01.:30:03.

the industry, through the automotive council means that we have a forum,

:30:04.:30:08.

where the industry specific issues can be tackled stragically, so we

:30:09.:30:15.

have a pathway together. The British car industry employs nearly 130,000

:30:16.:30:21.

people, it generates over ?10 billion a year for the economy.

:30:22.:30:25.

Foreign ownership in the sector has brought better management technique,

:30:26.:30:29.

exposure to international competition, and often global

:30:30.:30:32.

economies of scale. These foreign-owned firms aren't just

:30:33.:30:36.

producing more here, they are also carrying out high-tech research.

:30:37.:30:43.

What are we looking at here? This is our 3-D version of the Evoke. At

:30:44.:30:50.

Jaguar Land Rover's R centre in Warwickshire, they have built a

:30:51.:30:55.

vertical actual reality cave to test proto-types. If you put on the

:30:56.:31:03.

glasses, it allows you get right inside the data. You can put your

:31:04.:31:08.

head inside the engine with these 3-D glasses. Centres like this,

:31:09.:31:12.

mixed with the research is putting us on an even footing with the

:31:13.:31:16.

German manufacturers. In some respects we are slightly ahead. We

:31:17.:31:22.

are using clever techniques in the virtual world that enables us to be

:31:23.:31:27.

ahead. Both in terms of materials and development process...

:31:28.:31:31.

Everything seems to be going well for the car industry. Some are

:31:32.:31:36.

worried about the nuts and bolts. It is no sir about the number of shiny

:31:37.:31:40.

cars across the line, it is about the number of British components

:31:41.:31:47.

under the bonnet. The problem is -- bonet, the cars in the 1970s were

:31:48.:31:51.

100% British and the percentage is lower. If you correct for the

:31:52.:31:56.

important content we will still only be producing something like

:31:57.:32:00.

two-thirds the value of output that we produced in the 19p 0s, and rob

:32:01.:32:05.

-- 1970s, and probably significantly less than in the late 1990s. For a

:32:06.:32:12.

long time we imported more cars into Britain an exported abroad. Recently

:32:13.:32:17.

the value of the cars we sell overseas has matched the value of

:32:18.:32:21.

the cars we buy in. This doesn't tell the whole story. A lot of the

:32:22.:32:25.

components in British-built cars come in from abroad. Add in all

:32:26.:32:30.

that, as shown on the red line, and the motor industry as a whole is

:32:31.:32:39.

still a big importer. Only around 40% of the parts in a British-made

:32:40.:32:44.

car are from the domestic supply chain. In Germany and France that

:32:45.:32:50.

figure is nearer 06. Closing this gap could at ?3 billion to the UK

:32:51.:32:55.

economy. Foreign ownership can be controversial. While we may again

:32:56.:32:58.

investment, jobs and expertise, profits, accountability and decision

:32:59.:33:06.

making can flow abroad. There is rightly public interest in where the

:33:07.:33:10.

ultimate ownership of UK businesses rests. I don't think it is simple to

:33:11.:33:17.

give a yes or no answer about whether or not foreign ownership is

:33:18.:33:20.

good for the UK. It is about having a long-term plan and driving through

:33:21.:33:24.

successful investment, and securing growth in overseas market. The

:33:25.:33:27.

British car industry is doing well, because firms have invested in

:33:28.:33:31.

research and development, innovation and their work force. Most of those

:33:32.:33:35.

firms also happen to be foreign-owned. In other sectors,

:33:36.:33:41.

overseas takeovers have been associated with asset stripping and

:33:42.:33:46.

chasing a quick buck. The real divide isn't between British and

:33:47.:33:50.

foreign ownership, but between those seeking long-term value and those

:33:51.:33:53.

only interested in short-term profits. UK car manufacturers all

:33:54.:34:01.

would love to be aiming for the long-term value. And today the

:34:02.:34:05.

industry is becoming a world beater. The 1970s feel like a very long time

:34:06.:34:14.

ago. Joining me now is an economist dubbed one of the top world thinkers

:34:15.:34:19.

by Prospect Magazine, and the editor of City AM. First of all, would the

:34:20.:34:25.

evidence of the car industry be one that actually if it hadn't been for

:34:26.:34:29.

foreign investment saving the day we wouldn't have car industry at all?

:34:30.:34:34.

In the case of car industry that is true. But you have to recognise that

:34:35.:34:38.

it is well established empirical evidence that other things being

:34:39.:34:42.

equal, foreign companies will do fewer or higher value added

:34:43.:34:47.

activities in the host economies like the UK in the case of the car

:34:48.:34:52.

industry. We have to bite the bullet, if we want foreign

:34:53.:34:56.

investment we have to accept we are branch factories and not have the

:34:57.:35:01.

main engine here? That is what I meant. I have no problem if you say

:35:02.:35:07.

well we are going to be second fiddle, but we will be a good second

:35:08.:35:12.

fiddle, then it is fine. But very often that debates get very

:35:13.:35:17.

ideolgical. As with Pfizer AstraZeneca? Some people talk as if

:35:18.:35:22.

danger is all that matters, and others say it doesn't matter at all,

:35:23.:35:26.

but it is somewhere inbetween. The Government wants the balance to

:35:27.:35:30.

change and to have more either indigenous investment here rather

:35:31.:35:34.

than foreign investment, and more development here changing

:35:35.:35:39.

conditions. They have set up as well as the automated councils, bringing

:35:40.:35:45.

all sorts of industries together, Aerospace, life science, to develop

:35:46.:35:50.

a base standard for things like apprenticeships or conditions, good

:35:51.:35:53.

idea? I think largely these things are a waste of time. Of course you

:35:54.:35:58.

have to develop apprenticeships and create the environment for growth,

:35:59.:36:05.

you have to have great universities producing great scientist. I don't

:36:06.:36:09.

buy the industrial policies, I don't think they work, I don't think the

:36:10.:36:15.

own ership of the company mattering at all. I have seen lots of

:36:16.:36:22.

companies dominated by that. I don't think they are branch offices or

:36:23.:36:27.

back offices, they are creating very good high-paying jobs, they

:36:28.:36:31.

contribute hugely to this country. I don't think we should be

:36:32.:36:33.

nationalistic in any way whatsoever. You both seem to take the same view

:36:34.:36:38.

in this that we shouldn't be hung up about the headquarters being here,

:36:39.:36:43.

or the research and development, we in a sense should kind of be the

:36:44.:36:48.

worker bees and brings people in for whatever it is, Aerospace and

:36:49.:36:52.

shipbuilding programmes. We don't have the expertise on that? We

:36:53.:36:59.

should have that, London has more highly value-added jobs in Europe. A

:37:00.:37:04.

lot of the people who do the jobs and paid very well are working for

:37:05.:37:07.

overseas companies. I don't think it matters. Is There isn't any sense of

:37:08.:37:15.

a red flag when someone like Pfizer comes, even if they strip out and

:37:16.:37:18.

take advantage of taxation, if in the end there is more development at

:37:19.:37:24.

AstraZeneca... In the face of Pfizer there is the track record of the

:37:25.:37:27.

company taking over smaller companies, shutting down their

:37:28.:37:33.

research facilities. Even at the moment the combined, when the two

:37:34.:37:40.

companies merge the share of AstraZeneca will be about 30-40%,

:37:41.:37:45.

depending on whether you are looking at employment or direct revenue and

:37:46.:37:49.

so on. Pfizer is proposing to do only 20% of research in Britain, so

:37:50.:37:55.

that's a clear sign that indicates to Pfizer that they are going to be

:37:56.:38:02.

the second fiddle. It is a case by days basis. AstraZeneca has

:38:03.:38:08.

announced a bunch of job cuts, they have reduced their work force, the

:38:09.:38:11.

companies are no different. The global companies are completely

:38:12.:38:15.

global, they couldn't careless where they are based? Location matters.

:38:16.:38:21.

You agree with you? You node a great university, AstraZeneca gets taken

:38:22.:38:27.

over and Pfizer takes a research centre, away from Cambridge,

:38:28.:38:37.

Cambridge will beless less likely to help. Sometimes has OK to play

:38:38.:38:45.

second fiddle, but it is not OK to play second fiddle in something like

:38:46.:38:51.

a pharmacompany, where the interintellectual property won't be

:38:52.:38:54.

part of our economy? It is about your goal and your judgment of the

:38:55.:38:58.

pet tenancies of the two different companies. As it toad in the 197 OK

:38:59.:39:06.

0s, they were not able to generate that kind of research without

:39:07.:39:12.

investigation. You have AstraZeneca, it is half Swedish. But it has a

:39:13.:39:18.

deep root in the research that scientists and the community are

:39:19.:39:22.

doing. It has a lot of links with universities. It is that route that

:39:23.:39:29.

you need to try to preserve. I don't accept this assumption, global

:39:30.:39:33.

companies are that are not head quartered can employ lots of

:39:34.:39:36.

scientists and do lots of research, I don't think it matters, if you are

:39:37.:39:40.

a modern, global firm you can go away and think the reasons are best,

:39:41.:39:44.

if there is a lot of highly educated people and good tax system, you will

:39:45.:39:49.

locate activities there. If you don't think it is a good place to

:39:50.:39:53.

base you won't be based there. I don't think nationalism enters it,

:39:54.:40:00.

and we shouldn't be and discriminate these companies.

:40:01.:40:02.

By the standard of the overheated property market in central London it

:40:03.:40:06.

is almost a snip, a secret Government bunker, room for up to

:40:07.:40:15.

?8,000. Up now. The air raid shelter hundreds of feet under ground is in

:40:16.:40:21.

need of innovation, clearing and fixing the leaks, but you don't need

:40:22.:40:27.

to to far from the travel. If you don't live in the capital,

:40:28.:40:44.

you may not know Londoners are enchanted by the tube, and like to

:40:45.:40:50.

tell one another about stories about it. It is said to be a create

:40:51.:40:56.

Labyrinth, like King Soloman's mines. Deeper even than the

:40:57.:41:00.

underground lines, and it is somewhere here in south London.

:41:01.:41:10.

People twelve a parade of fast food restaurants and a nondescript door.

:41:11.:41:28.

It goes forever doesn't it? It does. Each tunnel is 1 thousand feet long.

:41:29.:41:34.

100-feet beneath the pavement, this is one of eight level deep shelters.

:41:35.:41:42.

There are 1,900 bunk beds, each one numbered. Wanted a downwardly mobile

:41:43.:41:51.

tenant. Finale Holness and his colleagues are letting this bunker.

:41:52.:41:56.

Excavated in the Second World War and held up to 8,000 people a night

:41:57.:42:01.

as Hitler's bombs fell on the city. What are we going into now, another

:42:02.:42:10.

room? Any prospective occupying would have to get up and down 178

:42:11.:42:14.

stairs, the lift is out of action at the moment. And not mind a certain

:42:15.:42:24.

solitude. What is that? A Northern line train. About 50 feet above us

:42:25.:42:28.

we have the Northern line running. On time? Absolutely! It is like

:42:29.:42:35.

being in the hull of a submarine. The narrow head space, the rivets,

:42:36.:42:42.

and from time to time the rumble of a great leviathan overhead, actually

:42:43.:42:47.

a Northern line tube. There is a constant temperature of about 16

:42:48.:42:51.

degrees centigrade down here. It is dry, on the whole, and there is a

:42:52.:42:59.

kind of woody, chalky smell. Hard to imagine 8,000 souls packed in

:43:00.:43:06.

together in fear of their lives. If the bunker looks suspiciously

:43:07.:43:10.

tunnel-like, no wonder. There was once a plan to link the shelters to

:43:11.:43:14.

form a magma-scraping Metro system, once a plan to link the shelters to

:43:15.:43:24.

a forerunner of CrossRail. However arrivals from the West Indies found

:43:25.:43:31.

themselves here before finding themselves in Brixton to develop the

:43:32.:43:45.

heartland of black London. No you haven't slumped on the remote and

:43:46.:43:53.

tuned to MasterChef by accident. Michelle Roux Junior has joined

:43:54.:43:58.

forces with market gardeners growing veg in another of the deep level

:43:59.:44:03.

shelters. I thought they were barking mad, growing in a disused

:44:04.:44:09.

tunnel that is an air raid shelter. I thought it was crazy until I

:44:10.:44:15.

visited the site. It is awe-inspiring, it is disused space

:44:16.:44:20.

that would be mothballed and not used. That in itself was fantastic,

:44:21.:44:24.

it is a closed environment as W it is a constant temperature which is

:44:25.:44:30.

ideal for growing. He's planning a new signature platter. I think I

:44:31.:44:38.

will have to create a dish and call it "Le Petit salad vegetarian

:44:39.:44:52.

surterrain". What is it? Mixed leaf salad of vegtables underground.

:44:53.:44:59.

Sounds better in French. What about the other tunnels, one is full of TV

:45:00.:45:04.

shows and film? There are various film Di Canios for big releases like

:45:05.:45:10.

spider man 3, to 1970s game shows of golden shots, and even older films

:45:11.:45:15.

than that. Did you find the Newsnight archive anywhere? I

:45:16.:45:21.

didn't, no. Dozens, literally dozens of people would be interested in

:45:22.:45:26.

that. A bit wet here? It is not sewage!

:45:27.:45:33.

Still making your mind up. Clapham south bunker is close to great

:45:34.:45:39.

leisure amenities? You can exit on to Clapham column. I would like to

:45:40.:45:45.

do that. We can do that for you, I would like to ping out and frighten

:45:46.:45:51.

a dog walker. As with the property market generally, the thing about

:45:52.:45:55.

air raid shelters is you have to know when to get in and when to get

:45:56.:46:08.

out. Today over a decade on from the worst terrorist attack in a major

:46:09.:46:16.

city, there was a memorial museum opened on the site. Every victim has

:46:17.:46:21.

been remembered. We leave you with the images from the day, and singing

:46:22.:46:25.

from the children's choir that performed at the Opening Ceremony,

:46:26.:46:29.

good night. # There's a time for us

:46:30.:46:41.

# Some day a time for us # Time together

:46:42.:46:47.

# With time to spend # Time to learn

:46:48.:46:55.

# Time to care # Some day

:46:56.:47:00.

# Some where # We'll find a new way

:47:01.:47:05.

A fine warm sunny day on Thursday, and there's plenty more where that

:47:06.:47:15.

came from, right from the word go on Friday, a lot of sunshine for a lot

:47:16.:47:18.

of us, and if anything the temperatures will be a degree or so

:47:19.:47:21.

warmer, they

:47:22.:47:22.

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