Browse content similar to 26/05/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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There is no arguing with Nigel Farage's much trumpeted claim today | :00:10. | :00:16. | |
that his party has pulled off something unprecedented. He is | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
right, they have, but what does it all mean? The established parties | :00:20. | :00:27. | |
dismissed the UK Independence Party as a one-man band, but now the | :00:28. | :00:38. | |
bandwagon is really rolling. Will an upsurge of protest transform | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
politics in this country, or is it just a flash in the pan? Bank | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
holiday Monday entertainment from the latest incarnation of the | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
political panel, because there is no over estimating the distress UKIP | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
have caused the established parties. I think there are racist amongst | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
them. The BNP has disappeared, so where has it gone? I have heard | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
enough speeches from UKIP members to make me wince with embarrassment. | :01:08. | :01:14. | |
And they are not alone, anti-integration and | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
anti-immigration parties are on the march across Europe. Will the | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
political establishment listen to them? David Cameron looks like a | :01:20. | :01:28. | |
stunned mullet, Ed Miliband is ashen and Nick Clegg, who now has fewer | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
MEPs than the Green Party, seemed suddenly to have discovered he has | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
been wearing no trousers for the last six months. Most of us didn't | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
bother to vote in yesterday's elections to the European | :01:41. | :01:42. | |
Parliament, an institution we don't much like and don't much understand. | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
But of those who did vote, the largest number expressed detestation | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
of the whole European project. They weren't alone. All over the EU | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
extreme right and hard left parties advanced at the expense of the | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
centre. The peasants are revolting. First tonight, Laura Keunssberg's | :02:00. | :02:11. | |
assessment. Can UKIP translate European success to Westminster? | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
This report contains flash photography. | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
On your marks, get set, only 347 days to go. The leader of the | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
smallest party now fancies his chances in the big race next year | :02:26. | :02:32. | |
and these people from Canvey in Essex are some of the voters who put | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
UKIP in pole position. Until the main parties start listening, the | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
indigenous population will go to UKIP. He says what we are all | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
thinking and he has got a platform where we have not. You are | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
frightened to say anything because they will say you are racist, | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
frightened to say anything because are not racists. Nigel Farage | :02:59. | :03:00. | |
grinning because his dream of topping in national vote came true. | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
It is an earthquake, it is a remarkable result and it does have | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
profound consequences for the other parties. Our game is to get this | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
right, to find the right candidates, to target our resources on getting a | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
good number of seats in Westminster next year. So, could he do it? Nick | :03:21. | :03:34. | |
Clegg was cut back to just one MEP, two fewer than the Greens. The | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
Tories were left with 19 seats, losing seven. Ed Miliband was beaten | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
into second place. And Nigel Farage was out in front with 24, with 11 | :03:46. | :03:52. | |
extra on his side. In this area this week's results would send a UKIP MP | :03:53. | :03:59. | |
to Westminster. But is this a quick howl of protest or something more? | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
Would you ever vote UKIP in a general election? No, I would not. | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
Although some of their policies have touched a nerve, I think they go to | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
the extreme. It depends. If they stick to their word once they are | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
in, then yes the trust will build up. But at the moment they are not | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
setting me on fire. No one has achieved what Nigel Farage has | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
achieved in 100 years. But turning that into Westminster seats will be | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
much harder. But he can plot how to gain MPs. Whereas Nick Clegg, after | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
a dreadful performance, is struggling to control his. They knew | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
it would be bad, but not this bad. The Lib Dems are left with one MEP, | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
what a senior figure described as a shocking night. Now a couple of | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
backbenchers are calling for change at the top. A section of the | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
electorate are not listening to Nick Clegg. It is unfortunate, sad and | :05:05. | :05:20. | |
not deserved, deal with the world as we have got it. We said in 2010 we | :05:21. | :05:22. | |
would do something exceptional, enter into a coalition, for | :05:23. | :05:24. | |
exceptional reasons. To deliver the economic recovery, and just at the | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
point when our big decisions are being vindicated, we are not going | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
to buckle and lose our nerve and walk away. And labour was slapped | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
into second place, losing the fight with Nigel Farage. This was not | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
enough to see them into Number Ten next year, but they sneaked ahead of | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
the Tories. The Lib Dems were trailing by 7%. People will say, we | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
are discontented with the way the country works. UKIP is determined to | :05:58. | :06:05. | |
become a permanent party, but Labour and the Tories' combined share of | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
the vote went up, although David Cameron faces pressure from the | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
right. I see that as a demand for us to deliver and we have to | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
demonstrate tackling education, reforming welfare and getting | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
Britain's plays right in Europe are part of our long-term, economic | :06:25. | :06:36. | |
plan. But the Canvey Island MP is now a moderate. David Cameron is not | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
going to get away with that nonsense any more and the reason for that is | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
that Nigel is holding him to account and the people of this country are | :06:48. | :06:55. | |
backing Nigel. Not anything like everyone, not anything like yet, but | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
Mr Farage has made the others fighting for a place worry about | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
whether they are fit for the race. Well, to discuss whether this is the | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
start of four-party politics I am joined by a four-party panel. Tim | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
Montgomery, columnist for The Times. Miranda Green, the former press | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
secretary to Paddy Ashdown. The UKIP deputy chairman Neil Hamilton. And | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
Phil Collins, the journalist and former speech writer for Tony Blair. | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
Neil Hamilton, you are deputy chair, do you really believe you can | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
translate this into power at Westminster? Yes, we can. We made | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
solid progress today and considering where we were two years ago nobody | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
would ever say it would end up like this. We will have a very focused | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
campaign for the general election next year. We have learned a lot | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
from the elections in the last year. We will boil down the results of | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
yesterday, and we know instinctively where our targets are. What do you | :07:55. | :08:02. | |
think? I think it is a fantasy. Good. We have gone through the | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
wardrobe in some kind of political Narnia. In 2009, UKIP polled 7% and | :08:10. | :08:17. | |
fell back by 3%. This is bigger, for sure, but they will fall back again. | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
The idea that you are going to sweep through Westminster I regard as | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
fantastic. Tim Montgomery, there is a challenge for the Conservatives | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
and it is articulating the question whether some sort of packed could be | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
made. I do not think a pact would be sensible. People have been trying to | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
paint UKIP as a racist and corrupt party, but they have failed to stop | :08:46. | :08:53. | |
UKIP's surge. I think if the Conservative party tried to form any | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
alliance with UKIP, it would hurt the Conservatives more than | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
benefit. It does not rule out local accommodations were UKIP candidates | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
might stand aside for Eurosceptics, but overall it would be a dangerous | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
thing. Why are you shaking your head? Why would we want to shackle | :09:14. | :09:21. | |
ourselves to a corpse. Your party leader did open the door to it this | :09:22. | :09:30. | |
morning on the today programme. I was not up in time to hear my local | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
MP. But there is no prospect whatever of any pact between UKIP | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
and the Conservative party. When Jacob Rees Mogg floated this idea | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
last autumn, I asked the chairman of the branch in his constituency to do | :09:48. | :09:55. | |
a poll on UKIP members and 70% of them were against doing a pact. Only | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
about 30% of UKIP supporters in the opinion polling we did last year of | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
those who voted UKIP had previously voted Conservative. 70% either had | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
not voted at all or had voted for other parties. We got 47% of the | :10:14. | :10:20. | |
vote in Rotherham, one of Labour's safest seats, 32% in Hartlepool. We | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
are taking votes from Labour in massive numbers. Every poll says | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
your support comes more from conservatives than from Labour. The | :10:31. | :10:41. | |
main effect of a good UKIP performance in a general election | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
would be to deny the Conservatives power, which is maybe what you want. | :10:46. | :10:54. | |
It might be your final reflections. You are in denial. A strong UKIP | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
vote. The British people having a referendum on Europe that you say | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
you want. I am interested in results where the Tory leader is | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
campaigning... We have been trying to avoid intruding into private | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
grief as you are a Liberal Democrat. You were enjoying it. It is all over | :11:19. | :11:26. | |
for Nick Clegg, isn't it? I do not think it is at all and it should not | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
be. The European elections are one thing, but people vote completely | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
differently in a general election. Certainly it has been a horrible | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
shock for the Liberal Democrat Party and it is a really bad set of | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
results and also, unfortunately, it is cumulative pain because every | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
year since entering the coalition and the Lib Dems have taken a | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
beating. You completely miscalculated this. The results were | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
what was expected. What did the Lib miscalculated this. The results were | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
Dems do for you? They enabled us to have a debate on Europe. It was a | :12:06. | :12:13. | |
miscalculation. It was not. Sometimes you actually have to do | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
what you believe in. We are watching across Europe and extraordinary | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
thing this weekend, which is the anti-European parties sweeping the | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
board. The idea that a smaller British party... It did not happen | :12:31. | :12:39. | |
in Germany. The idea that a smaller British party could have avoided the | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
tide... Nick Clegg is not part of your problem. There is a sense it | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
was not a town all night for an Nick Clegg. But neither of the other two | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
main parties have a platform for victory. Nobody here has got a | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
platform for victory. If there is one party that you would bet on | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
being part of the game after the next general election result it is | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
probably the Liberal Democrats. And the way the Liberal Democrats | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
traditionally fight elections in a very targeted way where they are | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
very popular locally gives them still a very good chance of keeping | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
around 40 seats, which would be a very respectable result. The reason | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
you guys did so well appears to be because of immigration, a focus that | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
you had on people's concerned about it. How will that play out until the | :13:38. | :13:45. | |
general election? You will find a bidding war as politicians try and | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
stay still some sort of message. It is very difficult when you have this | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
thing, the voters have said something, but what have they said? | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
You will get policy suggestions. Reducing the time people can have | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
benefits, for example, but nobody knows the answer. It is not just | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
simply about immigration, there is more to it. David Cameron said he | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
had to practice to get immigration down. He said that in 2010. He has | :14:16. | :14:26. | |
to do more on immigration. What the Conservative party has to do is it | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
has to be the party of Government. What this election shows is people | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
do not seek Ed Miliband as a Prime Minister in waiting. They do not see | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
Nigel Farage as a Prime Minister in waiting. This is a protest vote. At | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
the general election people will choose a Government and that is | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
David Cameron's strongest card. He looks like a Prime Minister and he | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
should not pursue populism. He should be the father of the nation, | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
the guy who takes the tough decisions. It may not go down enough | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
to help the Conservatives win, but that is his best strategy. The | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
Liberal Democrats have to carry on with the coalition and carry on | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
confident that a general election will deliver a completely different | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
set of results in these elections. The problem I think is whether there | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
is so much panic on the backbenches, on the Liberal Democrat | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
and the Tory side, that it starts to destabilise the coalition. I think | :15:31. | :15:39. | |
they will not panic. Nick Clegg has had the courage of his convictions | :15:40. | :15:42. | |
and David Cameron has no convictions. He is scrabbling around | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
for strategies to disguise the impetus of the UK government being | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
in the EU, they cannot control our borders within the EU. 485 million | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
people in Europe have the right to come here, there is no way of | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
stopping them. The government has put forward a number of sticking | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
plaster solutions to be struck down by the European Court, and we will | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
show that the British government, the political class of this country | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
has no answers to the problems affecting people in their daily | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
lives will stop they are not interested in party games, they are | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
interested in cost of living, which is being increased. I have to cut | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
across you because we have no more time. Thank you very much. | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
The electorate's enthusiasm for UKIP was at least partly based upon its | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
claim not to be a normal political party. For the complaint now is that | :16:41. | :16:43. | |
mainstream politics is the province of pygmies. No-one ever accused | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
Michael Heseltine of that. And the UKIP vote represents a wholesale | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
rejection of his ideas about both this country and Europe. Tarzan has | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
retreated to his lair in the country much of the time. And it was there | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
that I found him earlier. I asked him whether the mainstream parties | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
should listen to UKIP voters. You should always listen but you | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
should interpret what they have said. What I see very clearly is | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
that people have had a terrible time. The consequences have been | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
very painful and for many people still are, people find a focal point | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
of their discontent. You think they are a flash in the pan? | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
Not as Matt agree as you put it because you're sceptical -- because | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
your scepticism has been there from the beginning. If you say to me, are | :17:40. | :17:46. | |
they going to be a major force in the next general election? The | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
answer is, no. They have clearly repudiated a particular and users of | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
yours. You have to interpret, what they reviewed it in? The European | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
Union. -- what are they repudiating. I do not believe that. It is the | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
place to go to protest about certain things that have been happening | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
which they associate with Europe. But the real problem is the | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
recession. Whenever you get a recession of the sort, mid-term | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
results find a protest point, it used to be the Liberal Democrats. | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
UKIP did not make any running about the recession. They talked about the | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
question of immigration. But the concern about immigration, which | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
again is a complex issue, it has been there for a long time, is a | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
problem of recession. Because the argument was that these foreigners | :18:45. | :18:51. | |
are taking our jobs. Has immigration been good for this country? Hugely | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
good, throughout the centuries. We have been the Gateway for wave after | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
wave of huge talent. One of the big problems we face today is a skills | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
shortage. Where are you going to get it? It is naive to say they will all | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
come back to work. The unemployed do not have the skills of a modern | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
economy. Surely the Conservatives would have done better if they have | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
brought down immigration to 100,000 people a year. If it could be done, | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
which they are trying hard to do, and I have no complaints. If I was | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
in the government, I would try to help. How do they go forward? Keep | :19:36. | :19:42. | |
your nerve, that is the first thing. George Osborne has played a blinder | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
in coinciding economic recovery with political context. We are now seeing | :19:49. | :19:55. | |
the economy recovery Dashwood cover, but as yet not rising living | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
standards -- the economy recover. You will find rising wages and | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
rising living standards to coincide with the election. Should David | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
Cameron bring forward the deadline by which there is a referendum on | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
future membership of the EU? Certainly not. Getting an agreement | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
would be hard but to think you can stampede 27 other countries into | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
agreeing what you want in a matter of months and get the legislation | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
through is simply wrong and irresponsible. He would be crazy. He | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
would be crazy to try to rush it because that will just create | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
alienation on the continent. Secondly, to bow to | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
alienation on the continent. demanding, which is, tell us exactly | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
what you are going to demand. So your view is, hold your nerve, don't | :20:50. | :20:50. | |
worry about this, it your view is, hold your nerve, don't | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
expression of anxiety and discomfort that people feel as a consequence of | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
economic circumstances. This is about recession. You don't think | :21:03. | :21:09. | |
UKIP voters are racist? I think there are racists amongst them, the | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
National Front has disappeared, so where has it gone? I have heard | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
enough speeches by UKIP members to make me wince with embarrassment. | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
But they will try to keep themselves away from the association. Should | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
there be a pact between the Conservatives and the Liberal | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
Democrats? Split the Tory party? That would be mad. It would be | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
constituency by constituency. The principle that the Tory party is | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
associated with the undercover approach and attitudes of much of | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
the UKIP party would be quite unacceptable to a huge swathe of the | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
moderate one nation Conservative party. Would it be acceptable to | :21:54. | :22:03. | |
you? No. You do not have a vote as a member of the House of Lords! But | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
you could not rate -- which you could not vote Conservative if there | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
was a pact? It would be very difficult. I am doing the political | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
thing because I sit on my bottom and do not vote? I could not vote the | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
other parties, so do I opt out? It would be very difficult. Much better | :22:25. | :22:31. | |
to tell you the truth now and to do everything in my power to support | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
the official Tory position, there will not be a pact. David Cameron | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
made it quite clear, William Hague, George Osborne, they are absolutely | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
right. There will not be a pact. Under any circumstances? Under any | :22:46. | :22:54. | |
circumstances. Thank you very much. Thus far, our coverage of these | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
elections has confirmed the prevailing prejudice about the | :22:58. | :22:59. | |
European Parliament. We have been parochial, because, as is evident in | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
the pathetic turnout, most people in this country think the elections are | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
irrelevant. But right across Europe, such voters as could be bothered to | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
vote turned out to endorse men and women who loathe much of what the EU | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
claims to stand for. They include a Polish politician who thinks the | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
Parliament so corrupt, it ought to be turned into a brothel. Chris Cook | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
is in Paris, where the Far Right are on the march. | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
The European election results suggest something has been happening | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
beneath the surface of the continent's politics. New parties | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
are on the rise in lots of countries and one word is being used to | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
describe their effect. Earthquake. In France, they have had the most | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
shocking results of all, the Front National, and extreme anti-immigrant | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
party, got a quarter of the votes. It won big. | :23:54. | :24:02. | |
Marine Le Pen's success mirrored strong showings by antiestablishment | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
showings from the left and right in other countries. In Denmark and the | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
UK, Greece and Spain. France's Front National has had good days before. | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
Even so, this was a big shock. The Front National is very different | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
from UKIP in Great Britain. UKIP is against Europe, against immigration, | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
like the National Front. But it is libertarian. The Front National, it | :24:32. | :24:39. | |
is a fascist party. In the classical sense of the term. It is a rejection | :24:40. | :24:49. | |
of Europe. But it is above all a rejection of French elites. The | :24:50. | :24:58. | |
Socialist Party of Francois Hollande hopes for an economic recovery to | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
win back voters. The French people are not racist and xenophobic, I do | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
not believe that. I believe the people are fed up and they need hope | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
again and they will have hope if we get the figures right. Which are not | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
just figures but people, people get the jobs. If unemployment falls, | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
will people come back from the Front National? It is not clear. One of | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
the distinguishing thing about voters of Audi macro is they care a | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
lot about immigration -- Front National. They do not care much | :25:34. | :25:40. | |
about unemployment. Maybe national elections will bring back the | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
antiestablishment voters to the old Potters -- parties, or perhaps the | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
answer is in Italy where a new mainstream Socialist Party Prime | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
Minister successfully fought back against the outsiders. It is a | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
message of change. He is very young, 39 years old. I could tell | :25:59. | :26:07. | |
you standards, exceptionally young. -- I Italian standards. People want | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
to give him trust. His predecessor has been in Parliament for over a | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
year and he must be perceived as somebody who has protested a lot of | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
and done very little. What effect will these new outsiders have? They | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
are so varied they will struggle to unite in the European Parliament, | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
who is going to side with Germany's National Democratic party? | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
Considered to be neo-Nazis. And these new outsiders might drive the | :26:38. | :26:39. | |
old parties further together. If there was not a Brussels | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
establishment before, there might be one now. | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
Joining me from Paris is Noelle Lenoir, France's former Europe | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
Minister and now President of the think tank Cercle des Europeens. And | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
down the line from Brussels is Daniel Hannan, a Conservative MEP. | :26:55. | :27:02. | |
Daniel Hannan, what do you think is happening in Europe? For a long | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
time, the Euro establishments described anyone who had any | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
democratic or constitutional or economic objections to the Brussels | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
racket as anti-European, xenophobic antinationalist. And in a horrible | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
way, that prophecy has become self-fulfilling, they have stoked | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
the phenomenon were complaining about. Years ago, you will remember | :27:27. | :27:32. | |
doing this programme in the 1990s, he pleb would come on and say, these | :27:33. | :27:39. | |
countries together, forcing them to use the same currency and have | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
policies they can't vote for will create a backlash -- people would | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
come on and say. Would you accept that, Noelle Lenoir? Daniel Hannan | :27:48. | :27:55. | |
is a very brilliant MEP but he does not know French politics. In France, | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
according to the polls, 73% are in favour of the euro. Most of them, | :28:02. | :28:09. | |
66%, they are pro-European. According to the results of these | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
shameful elections. The Front National is not comparator will to | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
UKIP. In many respects. -- is not comparator will. The issues are | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
different in different countries. In France, the Front National gathered | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
mainly the votes of the workers and the low level because they are | :28:28. | :28:35. | |
afraid, and the unemployed. More than one out of four young are | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
unemployed. That is really a protest vote. Some of these votes are | :28:41. | :28:48. | |
racist, Zenith phobic -- xenophobic and anti-Semitic, we have a | :28:49. | :28:50. | |
tradition in this respect unfortunately. But the electorate | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
does not change so much. And with regard to the Euro, there is a | :28:57. | :29:03. | |
rise... The French, most of them wish the Eurozone, the group of the | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
eight team countries -- 18 countries sharing the Euro, we need an | :29:10. | :29:16. | |
integrated Europe. Daniel Hannan, what do you make of that quite stark | :29:17. | :29:26. | |
difference? I completely agree. Marine Le Pen has positioned herself | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
even to the left of Francois Hollande on a lot of economic | :29:31. | :29:33. | |
issues, whereas her Father tended to be against welfare scroungers and so | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
on, she has been in favour of an increase in spending, more | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
nationalisation, more protectionism. In many ways, it is wrong to call | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
the Front National far right, they have little in common with the | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
mainstream right on a number of issues. They are very socialist. | :29:53. | :30:01. | |
What I think is that France is in a state of anxiety and frustration | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
with a political class that, whoever is in power, has delivered high | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
structural unemployment, immobiliser, the French state... You | :30:09. | :30:19. | |
cannot carry on like that. -- immobilisation. The money has run | :30:20. | :30:26. | |
out. It is not just France. We have seen angry reactions in a number of | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
the afflicted Eurozone countries. Is there any common thread? In France, | :30:32. | :30:40. | |
he, Denmark, in Greece, a number of places where support is going to | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
parties that are not part of the traditional European project -- | :30:45. | :30:52. | |
here. Look at the Netherlands. These parties are different but the thing | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
they have in common is they are against the single currency, and who | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
coming new to the argument would not eat? The only reason the old | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
establishment parties are still in favourite is their fingerprints are | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
on the murder weapon. -- would not be. You are shaking your head, | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
Noelle Lenoir. The French are very much aware that if we are able to | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
borrow on the international market at a very low rate, under 2%, it is | :31:21. | :31:27. | |
because of the Euro. Second, I think that the results in the member | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
states are different because we have still, in spite of the European | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
Union, our national identity. Look at what happened in the Netherlands | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
went them -- when the most Federalist party obtained a splendid | :31:44. | :31:46. | |
result. And in France, you have a contradiction. We have a young Prime | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
Minister, Manuel Valls, who wants to diminish public expenditure by 50 | :31:53. | :31:58. | |
billion euros. He has high popularity ratings as the French are | :31:59. | :32:06. | |
very dissatisfied with the government and they wish to change | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
because they know we are declining if we do not. There are | :32:11. | :32:17. | |
contradictions. If you were advising the Council of ministers tomorrow, | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
what would you say was the one lesson they should take away from | :32:22. | :32:29. | |
these results? Return more power to national Democratic institutions. | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
This centralisation of power has resulted not only in aid Democratic | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
backlash but in a xenophobic backlash. People are not just | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
blaming Brussels but other countries. Noelle Lenoir? Have | :32:44. | :32:53. | |
conviction or go out. Be strong, have a clear message and held an | :32:54. | :33:01. | |
integrated Eurozone. Thank you. That's it. The sweetie jar is empty. | :33:02. | :33:03. | |
Back tomorrow. Goodnight. | :33:04. | :33:06. |