01/07/2014 Newsnight


01/07/2014

With Emily Maitlis. Why are we building fewer houses? Israel and Hamas. Did Labour get their sums wrong? Caitlin Moran's new book. And is Monty Python still funny?


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Transcript


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homeownership, the plan was all going so well. Or was it? Tonight

:00:08.:00:11.

Newsnight reveals the official Government documents that show house

:00:12.:00:17.

building is set to fall. We know now we have built more than 300,000

:00:18.:00:24.

houses, new houses in 1953. How will today's voters react to the news

:00:25.:00:27.

that when it comes to housing they never had it so bad. Might they

:00:28.:00:32.

blame the Government? Israel buries the three Israeli

:00:33.:00:35.

teenagers they say were killed by ham marks what retaliation will

:00:36.:00:42.

follow this. Israel's security cabinet is still

:00:43.:00:46.

in session trying to decide how much of a response will satisfy its

:00:47.:00:57.

public. Caitlin Moran's new novel, How To Be A Girl. I feel decidedly

:00:58.:01:06.

would happen tonight and I stopped them. She's here to talk about sex,

:01:07.:01:12.

sexism and getting her socio-political freak on. Who would

:01:13.:01:16.

have thought 40 years ago we would all be sitting here doing Monty

:01:17.:01:25.

Python! Is Monty Python still funny. We went to the opening night of the

:01:26.:01:30.

sell-out reunion. We are going to see Monty Python who are

:01:31.:01:34.

tremenduously still alive. Let's hope we make it back to the studio

:01:35.:01:38.

in time, if not there will be an empty wheelchair and some blue suede

:01:39.:01:46.

shoes. The dream of homeownership has been central to this

:01:47.:01:52.

Government's policies, the Help to Buy scheme gave aid to thousands who

:01:53.:01:55.

wanted to own their own place. But it was always accompanied by the

:01:56.:01:58.

acknowledgement that concrete measure, more housing stock, was the

:01:59.:02:02.

only real long-term answer. Now this programme has seen document that is

:02:03.:02:07.

reveal the number of houses being built is set to decareer, highly

:02:08.:02:12.

embarrassing for the Government, particularly as it is set to hid

:02:13.:02:17.

hard in three months, just before the general election. As

:02:18.:02:30.

The Prime Minister has a picture of this chap in his office, Harold

:02:31.:02:36.

Macmillan, as a post-war Housing Minister he got 300,000 houses built

:02:37.:02:40.

a year. Now under David Cameron houses are going up far from that

:02:41.:02:45.

dizzy rate. This Government has put a lot of elbow degrees into getting

:02:46.:02:50.

Britain building again. It has liberalised the planning laws

:02:51.:02:54.

controversially, and put resources into the Help to Buy scheme, all in

:02:55.:02:58.

the aim to help people own their own homes. But we have seen official

:02:59.:03:04.

documents that in spite of all that work, next year, ahead of the

:03:05.:03:09.

general election, the number of houses built goes down.

:03:10.:03:13.

The leaked document shows what we know already, after the financial

:03:14.:03:17.

crash, the number of housing starts did pick up over the course of the

:03:18.:03:20.

parliament, it is the projections worrying insiders. The next set of

:03:21.:03:24.

figures is expected to show a decrease in the number of houses

:03:25.:03:28.

completed. House starts are projected to increase again, but the

:03:29.:03:33.

figures out on the eve of the next general election are falling to

:03:34.:03:38.

128,000, not good news, a gift, some in Government think for their

:03:39.:03:42.

opponents. Just to say the Prime Minister is incredibly complacent,

:03:43.:03:47.

house completions are at their lowest level since 1924. I know

:03:48.:03:53.

doesn't like the fact, nearly 400,000 new homes delivered since

:03:54.:03:57.

2010, housing starts in the last quarter were at their highest level

:03:58.:04:02.

for five years. Housing starts are an interesting indicator, they tell

:04:03.:04:05.

you about what is happening next, decisions being made now and what

:04:06.:04:08.

builders think they are going to do next. At the point we are in the

:04:09.:04:11.

housing cycle we need to be building a lot more homes than we are

:04:12.:04:15.

currently building. Any decline is not ideal. Of course it is important

:04:16.:04:19.

to put it in context, we need to be building about 250,000 homes a year,

:04:20.:04:24.

we are currently building 150,000. Downing Street asked community

:04:25.:04:28.

secretary, Eric Pickles to jump start house building, the leaked

:04:29.:04:33.

document shows the 9,000 sites for 350,000 homes with full planning

:04:34.:04:37.

permission, but that haven't started building yet, they should be

:04:38.:04:41.

accelerated. It also singles out the council's failure to build

:04:42.:04:46.

replacements for homes sold under Right To Buy. Politicians look silly

:04:47.:04:50.

in hard hats, but you will see a lot more of it in the general election.

:04:51.:04:53.

Promises will be made by all parties on house building. What worries the

:04:54.:04:57.

coalition is that a decrease just before the election makes it harder

:04:58.:05:00.

for them to made they have made concrete progress. That is a lot

:05:01.:05:03.

more brickies getting bothered by politicians. As you mentioned it

:05:04.:05:10.

hits hard in 2015, and according to the figures you have got, what is

:05:11.:05:13.

the Government response to this tonight? They are accepting the

:05:14.:05:17.

figures because they are not rebutting them at all. They are

:05:18.:05:21.

talking about different figures. I think these documents are accurate

:05:22.:05:25.

in the case. What they are pointing out, the Housing Minister said to

:05:26.:05:29.

us, we have delivered 445,000 new homes over the past four years,

:05:30.:05:33.

housing starts are at their highest since 2007. We are playing with

:05:34.:05:37.

different scales, they have gone up according to the Prime Minister in

:05:38.:05:39.

that clip, but the crucial thing is they will dip in the critical period

:05:40.:05:42.

before a general election. In a parliament when you have spent so

:05:43.:05:46.

much effort in getting things moving again, Conservatives and Liberal

:05:47.:05:50.

Democrats. That is why this matters? It really matters because it is

:05:51.:05:53.

about, we think the next election will be about the economic recovery,

:05:54.:05:57.

and what type of recovery it is, and whether people are feeling it or

:05:58.:06:00.

not. And for so many people it is about whether you can own your own

:06:01.:06:03.

home. The prospect of owning your own home and what prices are doing

:06:04.:06:08.

are linked. That is why it matters so much, because it is about the

:06:09.:06:11.

feeling of the economic recovery and whether actually everyone is feeling

:06:12.:06:15.

it. Thank you very much. Meanwhile a Labour peer and former visitor to Ed

:06:16.:06:20.

Miliband, Lord Glassman, has accused the Labour leader of conformist

:06:21.:06:24.

mediocrity, saying we have an England football team of a

:06:25.:06:27.

Government and the reserves are no better. Labour's reports into

:06:28.:06:33.

spending, and devolution is proving fashionable now and they are all at

:06:34.:06:38.

it. It didn't stop everyone telling Labour they have got their figures

:06:39.:06:46.

wrong. We got to the bottom of it. # Stop me stop me

:06:47.:06:51.

This might look like a City, but it is also a political battleground.

:06:52.:06:57.

I'm here to talk to you about what we can do to make the cities of the

:06:58.:07:00.

north a powerhouse for our economy again. With new transport and

:07:01.:07:04.

science and powerful city governance. That the way we solve

:07:05.:07:09.

these questions I'm talking about is with local people making local

:07:10.:07:14.

decisions, with local businesses about how their area can grow,

:07:15.:07:19.

prosper and create the jobs of the future.

:07:20.:07:25.

In the past week the parties have been arguing about who has the best

:07:26.:07:29.

plan to turn around the northern economy. Today Labour published a

:07:30.:07:35.

growth plan by former cabinet minister Lord Adonis. Last week the

:07:36.:07:40.

Chancellor was here in Manchester, talking about how to build a

:07:41.:07:44.

northern powerhouse economy. Today Ed Miliband is over in Leeds talking

:07:45.:07:49.

about much the same kind of thing. All of the parties now agree, we

:07:50.:07:54.

need to rebalance our economy. More jobs and growth, in places like

:07:55.:07:59.

this, and today, it seems, they also agree that one way to achieve that

:08:00.:08:04.

is to devolve more power and money to local Government. Like Manchester

:08:05.:08:10.

City Council over here. But it wasn't just Lord Adoni's is's

:08:11.:08:17.

policies creating news today, there was a battle over statistics. The

:08:18.:08:25.

Adonis review claims that net sector jobs have been created in London.

:08:26.:08:43.

Using a more conventional approach means that 40% of net private sector

:08:44.:08:49.

job creation has been in London, that is much bigger than London's

:08:50.:08:52.

share of the population and does suggest a problem. But not as

:08:53.:08:58.

shocking as the 80% claim. Economic output per head in the UK as a whole

:08:59.:09:04.

is about ?22,000 a year. But that average masks huge regional

:09:05.:09:09.

differences. In London it is up at ?37,000 per head, in the south-east

:09:10.:09:17.

of England, it is ?23,000. Outside of London and the south-east it is

:09:18.:09:22.

much lower. Across the north it is half the level of London. There are

:09:23.:09:26.

significant problems Andrews regional imbalance, the real problem

:09:27.:09:30.

is how to close the differences between Manchester and the

:09:31.:09:33.

south-east, one way to do that could be for greater hours to be

:09:34.:09:41.

controlled from Whitehall. A new system for business rates that is

:09:42.:09:44.

raised locally and spent locally in the areas most in need. Once you

:09:45.:09:57.

start to do that you shrink the gap in that.

:09:58.:09:59.

Parties have been looking to Manchester for lessons? It has been

:10:00.:10:05.

working very, very well but particularly over the last three

:10:06.:10:10.

years, where we have set up the Greater Manchester Authority. We

:10:11.:10:14.

have established the Greater Manchester Transport Fund and set up

:10:15.:10:18.

a business growth hub that gives a one Topshop across the whole. We

:10:19.:10:31.

have started to work on skills. None of this is new, politicians

:10:32.:10:35.

have been grappling with how to boost growth outside of London for

:10:36.:10:38.

decades. This is going to be the youth club this. You can't disco all

:10:39.:10:47.

day! The north has been a relative economic decline for more than a

:10:48.:10:52.

century. It will take more than mayors and faster rail links to turn

:10:53.:10:58.

around a drain like that, the review contains 24 policy recommendations

:10:59.:11:02.

and last week the Chancellor added a half-a-dozen of his own.

:11:03.:11:05.

Individually none of them will achieve very much. But the hope is

:11:06.:11:08.

that taken together they add up to more than the sum of their parts.

:11:09.:11:17.

The policies in the Adonis review themselves have broadly been

:11:18.:11:21.

welcomed by commerce and business today. But a row about statistics

:11:22.:11:26.

has threatened to knock the report off its tracks. The author of the

:11:27.:11:34.

report Lord Adonis is with us now. Thanks for coming in. Let's clear up

:11:35.:11:38.

the figure, do you accept now in the clear light of day that your

:11:39.:11:41.

statistics were wrong? No I don't accept they were wrong, there is

:11:42.:11:44.

different data sets, the figures we were using in respect of job

:11:45.:11:49.

creation outside London is a data set which refers to where jobs are

:11:50.:11:54.

actually located, ONS survey is about where people live. They were

:11:55.:12:00.

based on data that runs out in 2012? That is the last data published on

:12:01.:12:03.

the data set. The other data set refers to where people live. What is

:12:04.:12:07.

so striking from Duncan's report is which either of the data sets you

:12:08.:12:11.

use, you can have an argument about which is the more appropriate, what

:12:12.:12:15.

they show is that job growth has been disproportionately in London,

:12:16.:12:19.

and if you take the wider south-east too, even more disproportionately

:12:20.:12:23.

there too. The big issue which he raises is how do we get really

:12:24.:12:27.

serious growth strategies in place in cities beyond London. With the

:12:28.:12:31.

date that, why not use the data that all the recognised companies are

:12:32.:12:39.

using, Matt Hancock has said your figures are out of date. You said

:12:40.:12:43.

80% and every other economist of credibility has said 40%? The

:12:44.:12:47.

figures we used are from the Centre for Cities, a reputable think-tank

:12:48.:12:56.

that publishes data on the relative performance of cities. There are two

:12:57.:13:00.

different data sets you can use, when the latest data comes out from

:13:01.:13:04.

where jobs are located as opposed to where people live. That first data

:13:05.:13:10.

set will be updated. This is a diversionary tactic. It is, but I

:13:11.:13:13.

pick up on it because it really goes to the heart of what many people

:13:14.:13:18.

will say about you in the party and outside which is you have a

:13:19.:13:21.

credibility problem with the economy, and you are using

:13:22.:13:24.

statistics now that many people disregard? I should be clear, in my

:13:25.:13:27.

report, when you look at the source for the data it says what the source

:13:28.:13:32.

is and makes it clear these figures refer to 2010-2012, I don't accept

:13:33.:13:37.

the credibility issue at all. This is exactly what people want to do is

:13:38.:13:42.

to have a debate about precisely how many jobs have been created where as

:13:43.:13:45.

accepting the issue of regional imbalance. The big issue for us as a

:13:46.:13:49.

country and it is not party political, it is what we do to

:13:50.:13:54.

address the underlying challenge. The underlying challenge is there is

:13:55.:13:57.

a great record of growth in London, London and the wider south-east,

:13:58.:14:01.

even within that there are pockets of acute poverty and big disparities

:14:02.:14:05.

that need to be addressed. But we all want to see the powerhouses of

:14:06.:14:10.

the Midlands and the north live up to their potential. And putting in

:14:11.:14:13.

place policies to see that happen is important. You gave give it to local

:14:14.:14:18.

authorities, they give it back to business, why not cut business rates

:14:19.:14:21.

and do something with massive effect? We are talking about funds

:14:22.:14:25.

that need to be spent, for infrastructure, skills, essentially

:14:26.:14:34.

purposes. There is a wider he -- debate about that. Why not cut

:14:35.:14:39.

business rates instead? If you talk to business about what they want to

:14:40.:14:43.

see in cities, two things come clear time and again. There is a big

:14:44.:14:48.

skills crisis a problem of high youth unemployment and shortage of

:14:49.:14:50.

skills, particularly technician skills and they want to see the

:14:51.:14:54.

infrastructure attended to. The funds we are talking about, I'm not

:14:55.:14:57.

talking about taxing anybody any more at all. The question is whether

:14:58.:15:01.

priorities are set at the local and regional level or at the national

:15:02.:15:05.

level. Now as Duncan said in his report, we are very unusual in this

:15:06.:15:08.

country in the degree of centralisation of spending

:15:09.:15:12.

decisions. People like Richard Lees who are outstanding leaders of big

:15:13.:15:16.

authorities like Manchester, what they say, rightly, if we are in

:15:17.:15:21.

charge of Manchester you want to make a big difference and give us

:15:22.:15:25.

more tools for the job. They should then decide what the priorities are.

:15:26.:15:31.

David Cameron said in 2009 what Michael Heseltine has already said

:15:32.:15:36.

and the Liberal Democrats. The problem is they haven't done it.

:15:37.:15:40.

There is an arms race now to decentralise? It is one thing to

:15:41.:15:42.

make speeches it is another to act. decentralise? It is one thing to

:15:43.:15:47.

deal of respect for, and his report is starting to create a consensus,

:15:48.:15:51.

he said himself today that what has happened in the last two years since

:15:52.:15:55.

his report was published is a stepping stone to what we need to

:15:56.:15:59.

see, which is much greater responsibility taken at the level of

:16:00.:16:04.

city leaders for improving their infrastructure and skills and making

:16:05.:16:09.

it is more probusiness. There is a problem here, as Lord Glassman said,

:16:10.:16:16.

and Len McClusky said last week, there is no coherent and cohesive

:16:17.:16:20.

message, you come out with the policies that sound grabby but there

:16:21.:16:24.

is no narrative that seems to carry the public with you? Today there is

:16:25.:16:27.

strong and strong narrative, which we need to put power in the hand of

:16:28.:16:32.

people who will make a difference. Business leaders, political leaders,

:16:33.:16:36.

those people who have responsibility for the health and welfare of their

:16:37.:16:40.

cities. You would expect on this for the public to gather around Ed

:16:41.:16:47.

Miliband and say forget the last years we are with Labour? Today's

:16:48.:16:50.

report is one building block and that is what we are discussing. The

:16:51.:16:54.

big question which people will ask of Ed Miliband and Labour is are

:16:55.:16:57.

they addressing the issues that really matter to the country.

:16:58.:17:00.

Getting unemployment down, getting more skills, more apprentice, more

:17:01.:17:05.

growth companies, more innovation, all of that infrastructure sorted

:17:06.:17:09.

out we had a report about housing, getting housing numbers and starts

:17:10.:17:13.

up. These are things that really matter to people, this agenda of

:17:14.:17:16.

empowering city leaders and giving them the tools for the job goes to

:17:17.:17:19.

the heart of being able to make a difference, community by community,

:17:20.:17:23.

better jobs, better paid jobs too across the whole country. Is that

:17:24.:17:28.

how you were won over, you of course were a David Miliband supporter and

:17:29.:17:33.

now you're very much in the Ed camp, you are doing his work. What is it

:17:34.:17:38.

about him then that has really sold himself to you? He's looking to the

:17:39.:17:41.

needs of the country, which is what you expect all good political

:17:42.:17:46.

leaders to do. The issues he's talking about, which is the problem

:17:47.:17:50.

of relatively low growth rates, which we still have even with the

:17:51.:17:54.

catch-up we are experiencing at the moment. We are not seeing the growth

:17:55.:17:57.

there is translated into improvements in living standards,

:17:58.:18:00.

because we have low productivity in this country and how you improve it,

:18:01.:18:05.

getting public services working better and the infrastructure, these

:18:06.:18:09.

things matter to the country. Why isn't it catching on within your

:18:10.:18:13.

party and the wider public, people talk about his power ebbing away day

:18:14.:18:18.

by day? I don't accept that at all. Labour has been doing every election

:18:19.:18:31.

happening he is doing better. Getting more and better jobs in

:18:32.:18:34.

every community in the country, there is no more important issue

:18:35.:18:37.

than that at the moment. The policies we have been talking about

:18:38.:18:40.

today to empower local business and political leaders to tackle skills

:18:41.:18:44.

shortages, promote a better environment for businesses to grow,

:18:45.:18:47.

to deal with infrastructure, including that big issue which we

:18:48.:18:51.

had at the beginning of the programme, housing, looming up the

:18:52.:18:55.

political agenda, that is what Ed and. Labour Party is talking about.

:18:56.:19:09.

Listening to that are our guests. Rachel you have isolated the problem

:19:10.:19:15.

as being with Ed Miliband's character, pretty scathing about

:19:16.:19:20.

him, a man looking like he's giving birth without being sure there is a

:19:21.:19:24.

baby inside? That is what a former Labour cabinet minister said to me.

:19:25.:19:28.

There is a sense of despair on the Labour benches among MPs and some

:19:29.:19:32.

candidates. This sense that this is Labour's election to lose if you

:19:33.:19:36.

like, everything should be more Ed Miliband, David Cameron is not a

:19:37.:19:42.

popular leader, there is austerity, the four-party system should make

:19:43.:19:45.

this a Labour victory, and yet the party doesn't seem to be breaking

:19:46.:19:49.

through. It is strange in many ways he's an admirable character, he has

:19:50.:19:55.

interesting ideas, Andrew Adonis's report today is sensible and will do

:19:56.:19:59.

good things. He's a radical in some ways, yet he doesn't seem to be able

:20:00.:20:02.

to articulate that. There is a credibility gap if you like. He

:20:03.:20:06.

talks about remaking capitalism, but there is a cap between the energy

:20:07.:20:10.

price freeze and this kind of revolution that he's promising. And

:20:11.:20:14.

people don't quite, it doesn't quite ring true. When another senior

:20:15.:20:19.

figure said to me's a curious mixture of dogma and indecision. It

:20:20.:20:23.

is this kind of lack of authenticity therefore. Can you say hand on heart

:20:24.:20:28.

that he's taking you with him? Whether or not he's taking me with

:20:29.:20:32.

him is irrelevant, he needs to take the country with him as Andrew

:20:33.:20:36.

pointed out. Is he taking the country with him? He's winning local

:20:37.:20:40.

election, he's still leading in the poll, his personal ratings are dire,

:20:41.:20:45.

that is undeniable. The big question is do those poor personal ratings

:20:46.:20:49.

stop him being Prime Minister next year or are they already factored in

:20:50.:20:52.

the Prime Minister. Those people saying they don't think he's prime

:20:53.:20:56.

ministerial material, but they are voting Labour. More pollsters are

:20:57.:21:00.

being told they will vote Labour than the Conservatives. He does have

:21:01.:21:04.

an image problem, which he's reluctant to engage with, to look at

:21:05.:21:08.

polls saying you are weird and geeky and your brother is more popular

:21:09.:21:11.

than you must hurt. He doesn't really want to engage in this stuff,

:21:12.:21:16.

he likes to float above the fray and see himself as a serious, positive

:21:17.:21:22.

and intellectual figure. But the fundamentals still favour Labour.

:21:23.:21:27.

Just pick up on that curious phrase "a mixture of dogma and indecision",

:21:28.:21:31.

that goes to the heart of the Sun thing. A leader who clearly thinks

:21:32.:21:35.

and feels things very strongly but some how can't say them? I pick up

:21:36.:21:39.

on what has just been said, Labour is leading in polls and in real

:21:40.:21:43.

elections it has been doing well. That is a big vote of confidence in

:21:44.:21:46.

Ed Miliband's leadership, in terms of taking decisions that matter he

:21:47.:21:50.

has taken big and bold decision, the decisions we have taken today about

:21:51.:21:54.

being prepared to empower city leaders, big decisions there. The

:21:55.:21:57.

decision he took, which I think is one, because I have been talking a

:21:58.:22:01.

lot with the business community about this report, it is an exercise

:22:02.:22:06.

in total immersion visiting the cities, the biggest issue they have

:22:07.:22:10.

raised is Europe. They don't want a Government or Prime Minister that

:22:11.:22:14.

plays fast and loose with the national interest when it comes to

:22:15.:22:18.

Europe. Ed took his time to make the decision, and he came out decisively

:22:19.:22:24.

that Labour will not hold a referendum unless there is a treaty

:22:25.:22:27.

change. Much more decisive than David Cameron who has offered a

:22:28.:22:31.

referendum on terms unknown for a negotiation that hasn't begun as

:22:32.:22:35.

yet. You could say what more can he be doing, if you have bold policies

:22:36.:22:40.

were is the blockage? The problem is the voters don't see Ed Miliband

:22:41.:22:44.

standing on the steps of Number Ten. They can't imagine him as Prime

:22:45.:22:47.

Minister. Credibility is about stylishness and sense of humour, you

:22:48.:22:50.

can't describe it or say you have got it, you have to demonstrate it

:22:51.:22:54.

in small and large situation. It is that gap between the pronouncements

:22:55.:22:58.

and the reality and then the little things, holding up the Sun for a

:22:59.:23:03.

photograph, and then apologising for it. That is kind of the worst of all

:23:04.:23:07.

worlds, and if you can't get those little decisions right in

:23:08.:23:09.

opposition, it begs the question how would you deal with nuclear war. Do

:23:10.:23:14.

you take this on board when you hear it? Joss it is the big -- It is the

:23:15.:23:20.

big decisions that matter. The biggest decision we will take is

:23:21.:23:23.

whether or not to stay in the European Union. The cavalier

:23:24.:23:25.

approach the Government has been taking to this issue is in the eyes

:23:26.:23:28.

of the business community and economic leaders is not one they

:23:29.:23:31.

find attractive. It is Ed Miliband who has taken the strong and

:23:32.:23:36.

principled stand. I don't accept this picture at all that when it

:23:37.:23:39.

comes to the big challenges he has been found to be there when needed?

:23:40.:23:46.

. The problem is this is Labour's election to lose, it shouldn't be,

:23:47.:23:51.

Labour got its second worst result in 200 years in 2010. They were

:23:52.:23:56.

supposed to be tearing themselves in two with Civil War, it is amazing

:23:57.:24:00.

they are still leading in the polls and he's bookies' favourite to

:24:01.:24:03.

become Prime Minister next year given the party he inherited in

:24:04.:24:08.

2010. The crowds were so big the funerals themselves were delayed

:24:09.:24:11.

2010. The crowds were so big the accommodate the mourners. This was

:24:12.:24:13.

Israel's response on a human level to a crime that has rocked the

:24:14.:24:18.

entire nation. Three teenagers abducted and murdered while hitch

:24:19.:24:21.

hiking home from school in the occupied West Bank. Private grief

:24:22.:24:26.

and political outrage are often close neighbours in this part of the

:24:27.:24:31.

world. There are angry calls for revenge, and the Palestinians have

:24:32.:24:34.

asked why the world hasn't recognised their dead, five

:24:35.:24:38.

teenagers killed in the search for the missing teenagers. How will

:24:39.:24:42.

Israel retaliate and when is the question. What considerations will

:24:43.:24:46.

inform the Israeli Prime Minister's decisions this evening and in the

:24:47.:24:49.

coming days? They are still talking here late at night. On the one hand

:24:50.:24:53.

there are those feelings you mentioned. Those people who want

:24:54.:24:57.

revenge. Sometimes expressed on the streets in pretty ugly terms, I have

:24:58.:25:01.

to say. On the other there were all the consideringses that would --

:25:02.:25:05.

considerations that would lead him not to go for a biggest calculation.

:25:06.:25:09.

America has urged caution tonight. There are many in the Israeli camp

:25:10.:25:16.

who feel doing something dramatic might cause the Palestinian

:25:17.:25:20.

Authority to collapse or face serious difficulties. It is Ramadan,

:25:21.:25:23.

that is another reason why they don't want too big an escalation.

:25:24.:25:27.

For all of those reasons the people I'm talking to tonight expect that

:25:28.:25:31.

in the next day or two we will see more of what we have seen in the

:25:32.:25:36.

last day or two. Which is raids against suspected Hamas militants in

:25:37.:25:39.

the West Bank. And further air strikes in response to rockets or

:25:40.:25:48.

mortar rounds on Gaza. We caught up with the crowds heading

:25:49.:25:52.

to the murdered teenagers' funeral. Tens of thousands filed down through

:25:53.:25:57.

the heat of late afternoon to pay their respects and to send a

:25:58.:26:05.

message. It is as if we all want, we all are big body and limbs were

:26:06.:26:09.

taken from us individually. It is not just a personal suffering, it is

:26:10.:26:13.

a suffering for the whole nation. We need to act in a way that terrorists

:26:14.:26:21.

won't even think of doing anything like this. Innocent children don't

:26:22.:26:24.

deserve to be kidnapped and murdered in this way. It wasn't the moment

:26:25.:26:29.

deserve to be kidnapped and murdered for asking what happens next. But it

:26:30.:26:34.

is a thought on everyone's minds. In this conflict that has spanned

:26:35.:26:38.

decades, there have been any number of personal tragedies. But the

:26:39.:26:42.

timing of this couldn't be much more delicate, Israelis and Palestinians

:26:43.:26:48.

have just given up after years of faltering attempts to talk peace.

:26:49.:26:51.

The potential for escalation now is obvious.

:26:52.:26:55.

Adding to the difficulty of this day was the revelation of an emergency

:26:56.:27:02.

services call from one of the teen's buried today, Gilad Shaar, he made

:27:03.:27:08.

it soon after he and his friends are abducted.

:27:09.:27:31.

In pursuing the perpetrators Israeli forces yesterday raided homes in

:27:32.:27:39.

Hebron. Israel says the two Palestinian suspects it named

:27:40.:27:44.

earlier were Hamas members. But the militant organisation has neither

:27:45.:27:50.

claimed the kidnap nor entirely denied it. TRANSLATION: The story of

:27:51.:27:53.

the disappearance and the killing of the three settlers relies only on

:27:54.:27:57.

the Israeli tale and the Israeli occupation is trying to utilise this

:27:58.:28:01.

tale to enforce aggression on the Palestinians and the resistance. We

:28:02.:28:05.

stress that the Israeli threats don't scare Hamas. Not its leaders,

:28:06.:28:11.

nor our Palestinian people, and we warn the occupation from waging any

:28:12.:28:15.

war or wide scale aggression against our Palestinian people. This morning

:28:16.:28:24.

the Israeli air force was in action, with strikes against 34 targets in

:28:25.:28:28.

Gaza. It follows an upsurge in rocket attacks on Israel. And

:28:29.:28:33.

although this injured many, this was not the promised Israeli response to

:28:34.:28:36.

the kidnap. Something being weighed tonight in Jerusalem. I wouldn't

:28:37.:28:41.

want to rule in or rule out any kind of self-defence operations, what we

:28:42.:28:48.

do know is that Gaza has become a huge warehouse of long range

:28:49.:28:53.

rockets, that can strike at Tel Aviv, these are not in small

:28:54.:28:57.

numbers. The notion that Iran could have a forward position along the

:28:58.:29:03.

Mediterranean on the Gaza strip, and fill Gaza with rockets of different

:29:04.:29:10.

types, Fager 3 or 5 is something that Israel has a hard time

:29:11.:29:16.

accepting. This was a day of high emotion as

:29:17.:29:20.

parents buried their sons. But it was a day also for politics, for the

:29:21.:29:26.

Israeli Prime Minister addressed the funeral, telling mourners that the

:29:27.:29:29.

abductions had brought Israel together, and shown them an inner

:29:30.:29:36.

strength. The coming days will demonstra how much further loss

:29:37.:29:39.

there will be as he makes good on his promise to strike back against

:29:40.:29:46.

Hamas. We have a columnist and commentators from the Israeli

:29:47.:29:55.

newspaper. Thank you for joining us. It was interesting the end to that,

:29:56.:29:58.

talking about Binyamin Netanyahu's speech. He was asked by the families

:29:59.:30:02.

not to mention the Israeli response. I wonder what that tells us about

:30:03.:30:08.

the need to keep the politics and the private separate? Well, let's

:30:09.:30:16.

say something that is usually not said about Prime Minister Netherton.

:30:17.:30:19.

Although he's hawkish, Conservative and not very courageous on trying to

:30:20.:30:27.

achieve peace, he's actually rather averse to extensive use of violence.

:30:28.:30:31.

His years in Government have been rather peaceful. We did not see

:30:32.:30:36.

breakthrough to peace, but he's not trigger happy, he's not enjoying

:30:37.:30:42.

getting into unnecessary wars, unlike some previous Israeli

:30:43.:30:47.

leaders. So what you see so far is actually that while Mr Abbas, and Mr

:30:48.:31:00.

N Binyamin Netanyahu, they are both trying to prevent escalation. Yet

:31:01.:31:06.

the situation is very explosive, any rocket that hits southern Israel and

:31:07.:31:12.

causing casualties can cause the retaliation, because it is very

:31:13.:31:15.

explosive and sensitive. But the different parties do not want

:31:16.:31:20.

escalation tonight. It looks as if there is an interesting cabinet

:31:21.:31:23.

split, some members talking of building up the settlement, naming

:31:24.:31:31.

them after the young teenagers, and there are warnings against this?

:31:32.:31:35.

Absolutely the extreme right in Israel, represented in the

:31:36.:31:39.

Government actually is calling for extreme actions of all sorts. So far

:31:40.:31:45.

the moderates and the cabinet, led by Prime Minister Netenyahu, under t

:31:46.:31:53.

influence of the military, a moderating factor, have been able to

:31:54.:31:56.

stop it. We don't know what tomorrow holds, but so far, actually

:31:57.:31:59.

throughout these two-and-a-half weeks of this tragedy, this horrible

:32:00.:32:05.

tragedy, you have seen mainly on the Israeli side, but also on the

:32:06.:32:09.

Palestinian Authority side, actually rather responsible behaviour, facing

:32:10.:32:15.

with this ghastly violence. Do you think, and Israel like any nation

:32:16.:32:19.

closes ranks when its young are killed, do you think it will be able

:32:20.:32:25.

to respond to this as a crime? If it knows who the perpetrators are, just

:32:26.:32:32.

to try them? Look there is always a battle for the soul of Israel. First

:32:33.:32:36.

of all there was something very impressive about the kind of

:32:37.:32:40.

combination of solidarity within Israel, and again a relatively

:32:41.:32:44.

restrained and responsible Government policy so far. But

:32:45.:32:48.

definitely the rage and the anger and the pain of the day are

:32:49.:32:52.

challenging the Government and cabinet and anything, this is a very

:32:53.:32:57.

sensitive moment, anything can go wrong in this kind of situation. I

:32:58.:33:00.

would like to point out that one of the things that makes the situation

:33:01.:33:05.

so dangerous is that we have had the collapse of the peace negotiations a

:33:06.:33:09.

few months ago. Actually nothing filled the vacuum, it is very

:33:10.:33:13.

dangerous in the Middle East all together. And definitely in Israel

:33:14.:33:18.

and Palestine, not to have an organising principle, not to have

:33:19.:33:25.

some stablising concept. Right now, specifically the parties, the

:33:26.:33:29.

leaders on both sides have been acting responsibly, but the fact

:33:30.:33:33.

that we do not have a political process, and the wish to have the

:33:34.:33:39.

finalal status agreement, this creates a very dangerous situation.

:33:40.:33:43.

We might survive this event, but the next one might really cause major

:33:44.:33:51.

escalation. When How to be a Woman exploded on

:33:52.:33:55.

to the scene, it was pretty clear a new voice of feminism was launched

:33:56.:34:00.

loud and clear, it shrouded from the roof tops or a chair more

:34:01.:34:05.

explicitly, it was funnier, self-deprecating, allowing for the

:34:06.:34:11.

inconsistencies that belie any attempt at doctrine. It was Caitlin

:34:12.:34:19.

Moran, she has a new book, of a young woman growing up in the 1990s

:34:20.:34:24.

wanting to be a music journalist. Now an extract from The Horse's

:34:25.:34:29.

Mouth, it contains language that some might find offensive. "I feel

:34:30.:34:38.

excitingly free. Things were going to happen to me last night that I

:34:39.:34:43.

did not like, and I stopped them. I have never prevented my own doom

:34:44.:34:47.

before. I have never stood in the path of uncertain happiness and told

:34:48.:34:52.

myself, lovingly, like a mother to myself, no, this unhappiness will

:34:53.:34:57.

not suit you. Turn around and go another way. I have previously been

:34:58.:35:02.

resigned to any and all fates ahead, mute and compliant, worried about

:35:03.:35:06.

seeming weird or unfuckable, or about making a fuss. But now, things

:35:07.:35:10.

have changed. Because it seems I'm now the kind of girl who can

:35:11.:35:15.

instigate a threesome and then cancel a threesome and then order a

:35:16.:35:20.

cab. I'm in charge of me. I can change fates, I can reorder

:35:21.:35:24.

evenings. I can say yes, and then say no. And this is new information

:35:25.:35:29.

to me. And I like this information, I like all information about me.

:35:30.:35:35.

Because I'm compiling a dossier, I'm my own specialist subject. You spent

:35:36.:35:43.

a lot of the day with us, thank you very much. It was my absolute

:35:44.:35:47.

pleasure. And mainly because I get out of childcare and it is really

:35:48.:35:52.

interesting to find out there is a television in the corner playing the

:35:53.:35:59.

World Cup. We have turned -- It turned around now in case someone

:36:00.:36:05.

scores! Your novel goes straight in because on the first few pages the

:36:06.:36:11.

heroine is masterbating? It is a great way to start a novel. The more

:36:12.:36:15.

you are not supposed to write about something I want to write about it.

:36:16.:36:18.

Not to be controversial, but it is why, these are the things that drive

:36:19.:36:22.

you nuts. So much of being a girl is visceral and you are not allowed to

:36:23.:36:26.

speak about it. When I wrote How to be a Woman is each chapter is

:36:27.:36:30.

something you are supposed to keep Crete, master a decision,

:36:31.:36:37.

menstruation, eating discords, hair. I thought these are the things that

:36:38.:36:41.

drive us nuts and these are the things that keep us deO'pressed. I

:36:42.:36:46.

found it funny. It is interesting that is the controversial things, we

:36:47.:36:49.

are on a news show talking about war and death and all these appalling

:36:50.:36:52.

things, and still to open a book with a 13-year-old girl doing

:36:53.:36:58.

something pleasant and relaxing is kind of like ahhh. It is fully

:36:59.:37:04.

accepted that teenage sex drive for teenage boys is full on, did you

:37:05.:37:07.

feel it was important to portray girls with a healthy sex drive? No

:37:08.:37:12.

hugely. There is a bit in the book where she's talking about how she

:37:13.:37:17.

wants to be a lady sex pirate and adventurer, that reclaiming of

:37:18.:37:20.

sexuality. I started writing the book because I was in a huge fury of

:37:21.:37:28.

anger after reading Fifty Shades of Grey. There was a massive feminist

:37:29.:37:35.

argument that we needed to have an argument, but to surmise the plot, a

:37:36.:37:42.

young virgin who meets an older man, who says if you let me spank you on

:37:43.:37:48.

the clitoris I will buy you an iPad, I thought this is not female

:37:49.:37:53.

sexuality. I want to write something funny and dirty who wants to do

:37:54.:37:57.

things. What is the word "slag" meaning to you? I'm using it

:37:58.:38:03.

cheerfully, if it is used in anger that is awful. Is it when a woman

:38:04.:38:06.

sleeps around a lot, is that something you would encourage? That

:38:07.:38:12.

is your lady sex adventurers? Again it is quite a good hobby. The two

:38:13.:38:17.

hobbies I think any teenage girl should have, masturbation is a very

:38:18.:38:21.

good and calming one, maybe for country walks and then the

:38:22.:38:24.

revolution, those are the three hobbies for any teenage girl.

:38:25.:38:28.

Sleeping around as long as you are doing safely with people you like,

:38:29.:38:31.

it is a nice way of meeting people and having interesting

:38:32.:38:37.

conversations. Your novel could be read as a Marxist treaty, it is

:38:38.:38:44.

about the benefits system, dependency, what is going on. The

:38:45.:38:48.

heroine says everything could be solved with more money? Yeah, it

:38:49.:38:52.

isn't just rude stuff, it isn't just shagging, there is lots of stuff.

:38:53.:38:55.

The two main things I wanted to write about were sex and class.

:38:56.:38:58.

Because one of the things I had repeatedly said to me since I became

:38:59.:39:03.

famous and successful that I was not working-class or middle-class. Seen

:39:04.:39:08.

though I speak in a middle-class voice I'm still from the ghetto in

:39:09.:39:14.

Wolverhampton. As soon as you get money the middle-classes coopt you,

:39:15.:39:17.

the only thing left for the working-class is failure, you can

:39:18.:39:21.

never be rich and successful and working-class. There is such a

:39:22.:39:25.

difference between middle and working-class culture, I wanted to

:39:26.:39:29.

set it in the 1990s becau that is the last time that working-class was

:39:30.:39:33.

supreme, all the bands, working-class bands, people would

:39:34.:39:36.

pretend to be working-class. Is this where you get your words, your

:39:37.:39:41.

socio-political freak on. What would you say to young people now who

:39:42.:39:44.

believe politics is a waste of time. That all politicians are the same,

:39:45.:39:48.

even Jeremy, come to that! What do you say to people who are just

:39:49.:39:52.

starting out? I know this is the hopefully if this sells this is the

:39:53.:39:56.

first of a trilogy, the next one is how to be famous and then how to

:39:57.:40:00.

change the world. I want to write about politics and explain it to

:40:01.:40:03.

people. I was brought up with a dad who was a big trade unionist and

:40:04.:40:08.

been brought up very poor he explained the history of the labour

:40:09.:40:10.

movement to me and how everything has changed in this country is

:40:11.:40:13.

because people went out and changed it. People in power will never hand

:40:14.:40:17.

power down to people you have to go and ask for power. Is it going to be

:40:18.:40:21.

done through the political system? Not currently now, it needs to be

:40:22.:40:25.

from the grassroots up. One of the books I want to write. It seems nuts

:40:26.:40:30.

to me you had labour movement in a pre-Twitter era it was collections

:40:31.:40:33.

and sending MPs to parliament who would represent their

:40:34.:40:34.

constituencies, now the idea of doing that, which is kind of why I'm

:40:35.:40:40.

in favour of UKIP, because I find them incredibly inspiring, if this

:40:41.:40:45.

useful bunch of ass-hats have got to this point where they control the

:40:46.:40:49.

political debate. Imagine a good UKIP having these conversations and

:40:50.:40:52.

how quickly they would change things. Misogyny, I wonder if you

:40:53.:40:57.

think that we missed that, my generation or the generation before

:40:58.:41:02.

us accepted it as the last bastion of offensiveness that was OK. We

:41:03.:41:06.

have ruled out race and religious crimes and homophobia, and yet some

:41:07.:41:11.

how the women got forgotten. Still there is that viral thing that is

:41:12.:41:17.

going on at the moment do it like a girl, they ask people to do their

:41:18.:41:20.

impression of running and throwing like a girl, being a girl is still

:41:21.:41:25.

seen as a bad thing, that is where I wanted to write a book about a girl

:41:26.:41:29.

who followed her will and desire and learned from her mistakes and wanted

:41:30.:41:32.

to be a good and noble person, not pretty, good and noble a have a

:41:33.:41:36.

really good time. Those things are key, it should be pleasurable to be

:41:37.:41:40.

a woman, we still see ourselves as a massive list of problems. It took me

:41:41.:41:46.

until I was 34 I'm alive, to realise that, I'm entertaining and I work

:41:47.:41:52.

hard and I can do things. When the remaining members of Monty Python

:41:53.:41:55.

announced they would return for one last reunion

:41:56.:41:58.

announced they would return for one quick to pick up the tickets. It

:41:59.:42:05.

sold out in 44 seconds. Tonight the pythons took to the stage for the

:42:06.:42:08.

first of their ten performances. This is a little flavour of what is

:42:09.:42:13.

on offer. Who would have thought 40 years ago we would all be sitting

:42:14.:42:18.

here doing Monty Python! # I'm a lumber Jack and I'm OK, I

:42:19.:42:24.

work all night and sleep all day # He's a lumberjack and he's OK.

:42:25.:42:33.

Is your wife a goer, know what I mean, know what I mean, say no more.

:42:34.:42:38.

I beg your pardon? Your wife, does she go. Well joining us now the

:42:39.:42:47.

comedian Marcus Bridgestock, she go. Well joining us now the

:42:48.:42:54.

Asha Atalar, who produced the TV show The Office, they have dashed

:42:55.:42:58.

across London to give us your thoughts. Lovely to have you both

:42:59.:43:02.

here. We were amazed you made it? We missed the end to come and tell you

:43:03.:43:05.

how good and enjoyable the whole thing was. Quite inconvenient being

:43:06.:43:11.

here? Spoil add lovely evening of comedy. Was it great? You go first

:43:12.:43:18.

because you are less of a man. I came out more of a fan than I went

:43:19.:43:22.

in. I was nervous for them because you don't want to ruin -- you are

:43:23.:43:29.

less of a fan than I was. I was nervous for them, I thought tonight

:43:30.:43:36.

was patchy, the production was great, they filled the O2 and didn't

:43:37.:43:41.

let themselves down. The people were waiting for the catch phrases,

:43:42.:43:47.

massive ripple of laughter. Slightly shaky first night in places. They

:43:48.:43:51.

expanded on the stuff people knew, they expanded out and did new

:43:52.:43:55.

things, at the end they turned a lot of the familiar sketch, afterwards

:43:56.:44:00.

into a big huge production number. People have said on-line about the

:44:01.:44:03.

price of tickets, for any of these sorts of things. I think you are

:44:04.:44:10.

getting an awful lot on stage. John Cleese said there was no new

:44:11.:44:13.

material? There was a tonne of new material, loads, not whole new

:44:14.:44:17.

sketches really, but different versions of things. Like what? They

:44:18.:44:26.

expanded out their "isn't it awfully nice to have a penis" song, to

:44:27.:44:30.

include the ladies. And one for everybody as well with the bottoms.

:44:31.:44:35.

And they did a lovely dance number for "sit on my face and tell me that

:44:36.:44:39.

you love me". It was liesly choreographed. Why should they do

:44:40.:44:42.

new material because people were going to see the old material, I

:44:43.:44:45.

thought that was an unfair accusation. That Mick Jagger line, a

:44:46.:44:52.

bunch of wrinkly old men trying to relief their youth when he did the

:44:53.:44:57.

promo for them? He's not wrong. They were candid they did it a bit for

:44:58.:45:04.

money didn't they? Cleese has a very expensive divorce, several. They are

:45:05.:45:07.

not the only people in Britain to go to work to earn money. There is

:45:08.:45:10.

nothing really wrong with that, I think there is only something wrong

:45:11.:45:13.

with that if you short change your fans massively. And they didn't. I

:45:14.:45:19.

have seen younger men put on more lazy shows than those guys. Thanks.

:45:20.:45:24.

I did mean you! I don't think anyone would think that. Where did it fall

:45:25.:45:29.

down for you, did it feel dated? It did feel a bit dated but that's sort

:45:30.:45:33.

of the joy of it, you don't go there to see a contemporary Monty Python.

:45:34.:45:38.

There were times when their age, there is nothing wrong with old

:45:39.:45:41.

people doing comedy, there should be more of it. We were saying in the

:45:42.:45:45.

car that sometimes they didn't quite have the energy to push through a

:45:46.:45:52.

couple of sketches, it felt they were sagging. I wouldn't be

:45:53.:45:57.

surprised if it came through in the next few shows. They played in a lot

:45:58.:46:02.

of footage but I have seen it before. We will try to get you the

:46:03.:46:05.

ending. That is it for tonight, we leave you with a journalist from

:46:06.:46:10.

Kansas City who performed a social experiment by sending a photograph

:46:11.:46:14.

of herself to 40 Photoshop designers in different countries around the

:46:15.:46:19.

world, she gave each one the same instruction, make me look beautiful

:46:20.:46:24.

in a fashion magazine. Here is what they sent back.

:46:25.:47:14.

On Wednesday England and Wales will see the best of the sunshine, for

:47:15.:47:19.

Scotland and Northern Ireland, it is a bright start to the day. But the

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winds will pick up, more cloud arriving for the afternoon, as the

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rain sets its way in and moves further south. It might produce some

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patchy light rain along the north coast of Northern Ireland. Further

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south it stays

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