Browse content similar to 02/07/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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A dossier detailing alleged child sex abuse involving prominent public | :00:00. | :00:12. | |
figures 30 years ago is missing from Home Office files. The Home | :00:13. | :00:20. | |
Secretary at the time are Sir Leon Brittan says he passed it on to | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
officials. Is it time for an historic inquiry into child abuse. | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
Violence flares after the body of a Palestinian teenager is found today. | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
Was it the reprisal for the murder of three teenage Israelis. It raises | :00:36. | :00:45. | |
the tit for tat sectarian murder. On the eve of a charm offensive by Ed | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
Miliband, is Labour an attractive proposition for business? Does | :00:52. | :01:00. | |
business trust Labour? Pass. Bodies on the beaches of the Isle of Wight, | :01:01. | :01:14. | |
could burials at sea be to blame. Good evening. The former Home | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
Secretary, Sir Leon Brittan has become embroiled in a row over what | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
action he took and didn't take when given a dossier in the 1980s | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
containing allegations of child sex abuse. The file was one of a number | :01:27. | :01:34. | |
prepared foe the late Tory MP Jeffrey Dickens, claiming prominent | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
figures were involved in paedophilia. Sir Leon Brittan said | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
he passed it to officials for further examination. The dossier is | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
now missing. Police are now sure this man was a serial sex offender, | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
to date there have been 144 complaints against Sir Cyril Smith, | :01:54. | :02:02. | |
he escaped prosecution in his lifetime. There has long been a | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
suspicion that it went further, that others could have been members of a | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
ring involved in child abuse. We know from my investigations into | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
Cyril Smith that he was abusing boys up and down the country, involved in | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
a network within London of abuse. And I think we need to name the | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
other perpetrators that belonged to that network. 30 years ago this man | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
was a campaigner, a thorn in the side of the establishment. The late | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
Tory MP Jeffrey Dickens spend most of his career fighting child abuse. | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
In 1981 he used parliamentary privilege to name the diplomat, Sir | :02:39. | :02:44. | |
Peter Hayman, now dead, as a paedophile. Who years later we now | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
know he handed two lengthy dossiers to the then Home Secretary, Sir Leon | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
Brittan, dossiers thought to contain the name of suspected abusers in | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
high office. Those papers were delivered here, to what was then the | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
Home Office, it is the contents of those two bundles which are now at | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
the centre of this complicated and murky story. Sir Leon Brittan | :03:07. | :03:14. | |
leaving his London tomorrow today. -- home today. There will be a | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
statement tomorrow. He said he didn't remember being handed the | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
dossier in the first place. But he released a statement. | :03:24. | :03:38. | |
But later this afternoon he clarified his position again. The | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
Home Office said a review last year of old documents, that went almost | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
unnoticed at the time found a letter from Lord Brittan that found parts | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
of the documents were sent to prosecutors, it found that Lord | :03:55. | :04:02. | |
Brittan had acted properly in the situation. He's looking evasive, the | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
comments he put out today are contrary to what he said previously. | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
He changed some of his statement during the course of today in | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
response to things the Home Office officials were saying. It doesn't | :04:15. | :04:17. | |
move us any further forward. Perhaps there is a need for him to go before | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
a Select Committee and answer questions. In many ways today's | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
statements raise far more questions than answers. We still don't know | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
exactly what kind of material was in the files, and do they still exist, | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
and what kinds of actions did the police, just round the corner in | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
Scotland Yard, take based on that material. In newspaper interviews | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
Jeffrey Dickens threatened to expose prominent figures if they failed to | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
act. He told the Daily Express, "I have eight names of big important | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
figures and I will expose them in parliament, one of these people is a | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
friend of mine, but you have to be merciless protecting the young". For | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
reasons that are not clear, Dickens never carried through with the | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
threat. And the individual, if the list ever existed, were never named. | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
The Home Office said this evening that despite a search of the records | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
their copies of the original dossier are now missing. The public will be | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
astonished that documents from the 1980s, this isn't the 1880s, it is | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
the 1980s, have not been returned. They will be astonished the because | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
the detail in those includes accusations against alleged | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
paedophiles. They will be astonished that they have been destroyed. And | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
the public will conclude and you can understand them concluding this, | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
that they have been destroyed in an attempt to protect the names of the | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
people that are named in the dossier who can blame the public for | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
reaching that conclusion. More than 120 MPs from all parties are now | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
calling for a full inquiry into allegations of historic sex abuse. | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
They say only that can shed some light on events of 30 or 40 years | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
ago. But with documents lost, and memories fading, many fear it may | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
already be too late to get at the full truth. | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
I'm joined now by the former Children's Minister who has written | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
to the Home Secretary Theresa May in the past asking for an overarching | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
inquiry into historic cases of sex abarks and the Labour chair of the | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
all-party group on child protection in the Commons. Before we get on to | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
the idea of an inquiry, what do you make of the fact in the 1980s, the | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
Home Office seems to have mislaid this dossier? It compounds the | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
scepticism people have about why these things weren't taken | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
seriously. There are all sorts of other things, not involving | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
celebrities or politicians, the police are given evidence and it | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
gets shoved under the carpet. It adds to question marks that are | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
coming every day and week as the story goes on. It leads to a whole | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
question of trust, why should the public trust authority? I think what | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
we are looking at here is an issue at the moment about what has | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
happened to this information, and there should be at least clear | :07:05. | :07:06. | |
information within the Home Office and within the police as to what | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
they have done with those records. I worked in social services in the | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
1980s and there were very clear procedures around what you did with | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
files and information. And that's what the public has a right to | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
expect. On a question of an actual parliamentary inquiry what are the | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
parameters, what are the areas, the problem is we have been incredibly | :07:26. | :07:37. | |
member nebulus? We are getting new charges of historic abuse, we had | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
Jimmy Savile and Rofl Harris, more next week on Rochdale children's | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
homes, the NHS, the BBC, independent schools, music schools. This is a | :07:48. | :07:55. | |
drip, drip effect. What would be the value of conflating those into an | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
inquiry? We are having all these confusing places going on, and new | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
reviews set up all the time that are reporting, another one reports | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
conflicting evidence, the public is absolutely confused and losing | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
confidence that children are being protected now. We need to put it | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
into historical context to know what went wrong and how it went wrong. | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
You are a specialist in child protection, you are looking into it, | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
why haven't you signed up for this inquiry? I'm not convinced this is | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
the right way forward. If there are individual allegations then those | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
should be investigated by the police, and the fact that we have | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
had these allegations made, which have been investigated and now we | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
have got successful prosecutions is making it much more likely that | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
people will come forward. We know that is happening. My view is that | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
we already know a lot about what went wrong, we know what we should | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
be doing now, and I think there are questions about how the Government | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
is managing child sexual abuse now, and how we are looking after and | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
making sure that those are properly investigated today. What you are | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
looking for is a review of what is happening now, rather than historic | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
inquiry? The all-party group which Tim is also on, has done an inquiry | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
into child sexual abuse, we have come up with recommendation, | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
particularly around whistle blowing and better train, which would make | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
things better for children now. Isn't there a real problem, as we | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
see in all kinds of cases with whistle blowing? There is, and | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
that's why it is really important that the Government looks again at | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
its guidance and making sure that whistleblowers when they come | :09:29. | :09:30. | |
forward know they will be taken seriously. There is a form of | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
whistle blowing that can be called parliamentary privilege, if you have | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
information with he Sufics, why not use parliamentary privilege? It may | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
come to that. I won't ask that clearly? We won't go into detail. Do | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
you have information? Certain people have come to us with all sorts of | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
information. We need to make sure it is coroborated. But I'm much more | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
interested in putting all this into the context of where we have come | :09:55. | :09:57. | |
from. The great irony is this Government has done an awful lot in | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
child protection, overhaul the child protection system. I launched the | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
child sex exploitation plan to deal with the gangs doing this now. | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
Children are safer now, but all that good work is being undermined by the | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
doubt and question marks coming from the drip, drip feed of the historic | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
cases. You are saying people coming to you are private or public | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
figures? Private individuals with all sorts of allegations. What do | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
you think is behind the fact there isn't an investigation, are you | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
alleging a cover-up? We don't know, that is the point. When you have | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
reports going mission, when you have police not acting on victims, very | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
clearly having come forward. Was there some conspiracy, was it | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
complacency? Was there a network going on? We don't know. Until we | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
lay all this bear, every stone should be turned over, we won't know | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
to give confidence back to the public and we are doing it right | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
now. Are you saying actually there is a possibility the police are not | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
acting correctly? They haven't in the past. Why should the public have | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
trust in the police. What we are seeing now is allegations of child | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
abuse current and historical are taken seriously. The police are the | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
right people to investigate not parliament. Fears of a new cycle of | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
violence in the Middle East grew today with clashes in Jerusalem | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
between Palestinians and Israeli police, and a surge in violence on | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
the Israel-Gaza border. The clashes followed the discovery of a body of | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
a 17-year-old Palestinian boy who some claim was killed in revenge for | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
the death of three Israeli teenagers, whose bodies were found | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
on Monday, three weeks after their disappearance on the West Bank. | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
First of all, how serious were the clashes today? You know, you might | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
argue, compared to what was going on in Syria, or Iraq today, that this | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
was something on all together a lower level. But these clashes have | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
raised fears for a number of reasons here. In the first place, this area | :11:56. | :12:03. | |
in east Jerusalem has not seen street fights like this for years. | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
This is part of the West Bank that was annexed by the Israelis and is | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
meant to be place where they consider there to be greater order | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
than the West Bank proper. Also there was an intensity to the | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
violence which also shocked some people. There was one incident where | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
man was thrown to the ground and was being terribly beaten by a crowd of | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
Palestinian youths. The reality police ran in to rescue the man and | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
to bring him to his feet. This man turned out to be a Palestinian | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
local, but he was accused of being a collaborator, it is all just part of | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
a sense that there is here of great fury burning away beneath the | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
surface of both communities. As you say beneath the surface, what is the | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
potential for it to escalate, no matter what political leaders are | :12:53. | :13:00. | |
saying? The interesting thing that has happened to is Prime Minister | :13:01. | :13:08. | |
Netenyahu has condemned the discovery of the body a despicable | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
murder. The Palestinians know that Israelis who are found guilty of | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
murder are often treated differently to Palestinians in the same | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
situation. Mr Abbas, their President, has therefore called | :13:25. | :13:26. | |
today for those guilty of this murder to face the strongest | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
punishment, as he put it. But I think you get the sense from both | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
sides of a deeper in vowsness about the public mood. On social media, on | :13:34. | :13:44. | |
both sides of this divide, Israeli and Palestinian there is a lot of | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
concern. We heard a group of Israeli youths tonight on the way here | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
chanting anti-Arab slogans. With the peace process going nowhere, | :13:55. | :14:02. | |
abandoned by both sides, with no direction. Heavily armed settlers | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
and people in the West Bank responding to one another could gain | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
a momentum of their own, particularly in Ramadan, and lead to | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
an upward spiral in this violence. The Labour leadership is going | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
wooing this week. The object of their aFKSs -- affections is | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
business in Britain, with whom it has had a tricky relationship, more | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
off than on. Tomorrow Ed Miliband will announce a whole slew of | :14:30. | :14:36. | |
reforms including tackling the short-termism holding British | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
business back. This comes hot on the heels with Shadow char, Ed Balls, | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
promising a fourth way to replace the third way for business. How | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
attractive is this offering to business. | :14:50. | :14:58. | |
Imagine, a world where Ed Miliband is in charge of the Government. Ed | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
Balls in charge of the economy. What do the people who make do and sell | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
really hope, what does business think Labour's for? One senior | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
figure told me the sense of alienation between Labour and | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
business is profound. They worry the efforts made by Blair and Brown to | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
build rapport have simply been abandoned. But another figure | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
suggested the truth is Ed Miliband just doesn't like big business. | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
There is a clear sense that in business, when you are dealing with | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
people in politics behind closed doors, they will say one thing to | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
you, and they will tend to be really supportive of what you are trying to | :15:39. | :15:41. | |
achieve. Equally when they go out and speak to the public, there is an | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
expectation that the public want to hear something different and the | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
politicians will tend to say what they believe the public wants to | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
hear. Does business trust Labour? Pass! The Labour leader paraded with | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
one of Britain's most popular businessmen. | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
It took sweat, tears and an awful lot of prawn cocktail to stitch | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
together Labour's new business backing. One young Treasury wonk | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
would grow up to say how few rules they introduced, "light touch", we | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
know how that turned out. With business well behind in the | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
popularity stake, Ed Balls talks in a manner inconceivable to his | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
forebears. The next Labour Government will freeze gas and | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
electricity prices. We need a reckoning with our banks. Not for | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
retribution, but for reform. Are you on the side of the wealth creators | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
or the asset strippers, the producers or the predators. There | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
are nerves in the City. There is a -- There is a risk they revert back | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
to anti-business sentiment, the type we have seen in the past. If they do | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
that, that will give business some level of discomfort. Both sides of | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
the political divide have been taking pot shots at business, there | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
needs to be balance in the rhetoric. Industry always has complaints about | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
the political machine though, many big players prefer Labour's position | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
on Europe. And small businesses, like the sound of promises, like | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
those on business rates. And taking on vested interests, backs, or the | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
big six, not bakery, of course, has political appeal. What is helpful, | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
but just as awkward as this photo opportunity, Ed Balls is more | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
welcome in some boardrooms than his boss. One of the country's biggest | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
investors told me, Balls is good, Ed not really known. Business likes | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
planning, not being sure what Labour will do next is a real concern. | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
They need reassuring about what Labour's intentions are, whether | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
Labour has a positive vision about banking and the role banks can play | :17:55. | :18:03. | |
in the economy and society, and they need reassurance. There is more than | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
competition over gags in a speech between these two. But they both | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
know re-establishing economic credibility has to be done. No-one | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
would expect Labour and the corporate world to agree on | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
everything. But there is a sense of vital trust that is missing, and one | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
source described the real danger as the inability to have a rational | :18:27. | :18:33. | |
debate. And being too close to business can burn, so Labour must | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
balance what it believes, what will work for the economy if it wins, and | :18:38. | :18:47. | |
what it says to get there. Labour Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
is here. You keep insisting you are pro-business, and yet clearly you | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
have yet to convince the City? The City? The business world in general? | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
I think the City needs to change. And we know that our banks node | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
knead to change, there has been tougher regulation. I think banks | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
are really important in the economy, they lend to people, they give | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
people their mortgages, but they know they have got things wrong in | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
the last decade and it needs to change. We will come on to banks, | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
let's look at business leaders, the tax policies predatory, Digby Jones, | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
the view about Labour is if it creates wealth kick it, the Centrica | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
boss. We have all sorts of different people saying that the policies you | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
espouse are not policies that are business-friendly? Tomorrow we have | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
a conference at the science museum, we have hundreds of people coming, | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
many people from business on the platform. We are talking about the | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
Jaguar review of industrial policy, which is about innovation and tax, | :19:47. | :19:55. | |
to Lord Adonis's review to devolve power down to business. Our tax plan | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
to keep corporation tax rates low as we tackle tax avoidance, and John | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
Armi it's review which says let's have a long-term commission to get | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
the structure we need. These are pro-business and pro-wealth creation | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
policies, and we will discuss them with business and people across the | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
economy. It will be a good Kay. Let's look at corporation tax, it is | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
very possible, you already announced on Monday, it is possible you will | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
raise corporation tax isn't it? I have said we have supported the cuts | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
in corporation tax from 33p down to 21p. I want to leap the lowest level | :20:31. | :20:37. | |
of corporation tax in the G7. George Osborne wants another cut in | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
corporation tax, we wouldn't do that, we would use the money to cut | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
business rates for 1. 5 million small and medium-sized businesses. | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
It is a different choice to George Osborne, it is a business and wealth | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
creation choice, it has to go along with tackling tax avoidance so | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
companies pay their fair share of tax. If you want to be the least, | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
the next up is Canada, 26. 3p on corporation tax. So actually you | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
have got from 21-26 going. You are not ruling out raising corporation | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
tax if you feel you have to? We have supported cuts down to 21p. We | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
thought the next cut to 20p was the wrong thing to. Do I also said let's | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
have a long-term incentive for equity investment and look at | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
capital gains tax for long-termism. You are not ruling out a raise in | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
corporation tax if you feel it is the right thing to do. From 21 up to | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
26p? I won't write a budget today, I want the least level of corporation | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
tax in the G7, we have supported the cuts down to 21p. I'm not going back | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
on. That we think 20p is not the priority when we can help small and | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
medium-sized enterprises. It is not the same of George Osborne but about | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
fairer competition and small businesses don't feel they are | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
getting a good deal. Business would like to know this, it could go up, | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
yes or no? I'm not planning any rise in corporation tax, I want to keep | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
them at low and commemorative level, I -- good level. We will cut tax for | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
small and medium-sized companies. Raising it to 26 is not the argument | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
I'm making. You are not making an argument for not doing it. The | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
unsoonerity for business leaders, it is not just them, look at Peter | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
Mandelson? Hang on, in your film you just said we were not pro-business, | :22:37. | :22:39. | |
I'm saying to you we are pro-business and we want to keep the | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
corporation tax rate at the lowest in the G7, that is a pro-business | :22:43. | :22:56. | |
thing to say? It doesn't come across that you are pro-business. Peter | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
Mandelson said even if Labour doesn't want to harm business, it | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
isn't sufficiently clear, and it needs to be sorted out and this | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
year. Are these words ring anything your ears? We have a business | :23:08. | :23:10. | |
conference tomorrow, we are discussing with business what we can | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
do to make our economy work in a stronger and fairer way for the | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
future. The reality is, and business knows this too, the European | :23:18. | :23:20. | |
elections tell us people's living standards are falling month on | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
month. David Cameron and George Osborne say the plan is working, it | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
is not for most people. Do you bury your head in the sand, do you give | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
into protectionism or make the case for open economics, a pro-business | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
policy and change and fairness. That is the argument we will make. That | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
will strike a chord with business, compared to a Conservative Party | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
which is running scared of the sceptics. If this is the run up to | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
the election and your last chance to put a case forward. Do you think | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
Peter Mandelson is right, even if you are pro-business it doesn't | :23:53. | :23:59. | |
sound TLIEK? That is aed auto-- like that, that is a big ally? Peter | :24:00. | :24:01. | |
Mandelson is coming to the conference tomorrow. We have the | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
Chair of Standard Chartered, people from business Lewis, people from | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
Labour, business people, and from Jaguar, all talking about the | :24:12. | :24:14. | |
long-term policies we need to make sure we get the investment and the | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
rising living standards we need for our country. They are not getting | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
them from David Cameron and George Osborne who are blighting business | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
prospects by threatening to leave the European Union. That is the most | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
anti-business thing can you do. Interesting talking about that, the | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
head of Unite says actually you should be offering an in-out | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
referendum on Europe at the same time, because if you don't there is | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
a problem, is he wrong? He doesn't make the policy of the Labour Party. | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
I disagree with him. That is not the policy at all. There is no question | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
that an in coming Labour Government would ever offer an in-out | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
referendum on Europe. You are at odds with Unite? We made a | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
commitment if there is a proposal of transfer of powers to Brussels we | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
will have a referendum in those circumstance, we are not proposing a | :25:13. | :25:15. | |
referendum now. We think to spend two or three years blighting | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
investment and underlining our economy, on the prospect of a | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
referendum, which David Cameron says he's going to have after he gets an | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
unknown package of reforms, it would be bad for jobs and investment. If | :25:27. | :25:38. | |
Len McClusky is supporting that I don't support him. Talking to | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
business leaders, this is part of the problem, talking about predatory | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
capitalism as opposed to producer capitalism. Should you use this type | :25:47. | :25:53. | |
of language, it stank of old Labour. We had a story last week about Wonga | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
the loan company, sending false lawyers letters, threatening people, | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
and then having to admit it is a terrible thing and paying huge | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
compensation. I would call that pretty predatory behaviour. Pretty | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
despicable. Is that phrase you came up with? It was a speech by Ed | :26:12. | :26:20. | |
Miliband at our conference. He said people who try to cartelise, I would | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
call that pretty predatory. Let's look at a policy you are putting | :26:27. | :26:33. | |
forward which is to cap the high treat banks, that smacks of | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
intervention? At the moment the banks are hugely concentrated. There | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
is a huge concentration in small business and personal account | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
lending, that is not my review, it was a review that reported three | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
years a we said we would ask the competition authority to review the | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
market, when we come in to see how to get more competition into the | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
high street lending. But you will cap the market share? We asked them | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
to look at whether there is a place for setting... It leads to status | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
policies. It happens when you have prop competition. We are asking the | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
independent authorities, a particular percentage if a bank goes | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
higher than that, it would trigger a market investigation to see if it is | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
causing a problem and whether action should be taken. Wouldn't call that | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
old Labour or anti-business, I think that a pro-market, pro-competition | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
policy is good for consumers and good for small business, and good | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
for large businesses too. Did you talk to your old boss Gordon | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
Brown about this? About this policy idea and capping the market share of | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
high street banks? I think Gordon Brown was the person who got the | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
competition authorities to look at competition the beginning of the | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
last decade, but the action didn't follow. Did you hear from the film | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
that business leaders rate you but not Ed Miliband, how does it make | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
you feel? I think Ed Miliband has led the debate that there is a cost | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
of living crisis. If we want to maintain Britain as an open, | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
internationalist, wealth-creating economy, we have to show it works in | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
fair way for all and not just some. For the whole country, every region | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
but also the families who at the moment don't feel they get a fair | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
deal. He's right about that. He's saying in his speech tomorrow that | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
is about working with business to create jobs and to do so fairly. In | :28:29. | :28:35. | |
the Telegraph there are words supposedly spoken by John Cruddas, | :28:36. | :28:42. | |
he's saying that Ed Miliband is gamed out every day every week, and | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
what is your response to that and the fact that he said that? I have | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
no idea what that means, gamed out? If you want to know who at the | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
moment who is being gamed out, is a British Prime Minister, David | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
Cameron, being utterly outmanoeuvred by European partners as he trys to | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
take help euro-sceptic, he wanted to take us down an anti-wealth creation | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
and European road. Many business people at our conference tomorrow | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
will be keen to talk to Labour. The Iraqi Prime Minister, Nouri | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
Al-Maliki, has offered an amnesty to militants willing to return to their | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
census and abandon ISIS, threatening to tear the country apart. The | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
rebels hold a vast amount of territory, fighter jets thought to | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
be Iranian landed in Baghdad as the Iraqi military struggles to fight | :29:38. | :29:46. | |
back. What about the idea of an amnesty that President Nouri | :29:47. | :29:49. | |
Al-Maliki announced, what is the response to that? He's clearly | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
trying to drive a wedge into this Sunni alliance in vast swathe of | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
territory they have captured in a month, it is not just ISIS, they | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
have had support from Sunni tribal elders and their followers, and also | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
ex-ba'athist officers. What Nouri Al-Maliki is trying to do is peel | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
off the latter two to weaken ISIS. We know there have been clashes and | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
confrontations between these two sides in recent days. We know that | :30:22. | :30:28. | |
some were unhappy with ISIS's declaration of a Muslim Kalaphate. | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
We know they have been telling local Iraqis to put down their weapons, | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
that ISIS are the only people allowed to bear arms. We know they | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
are not happy about that. But my colleagues up in the semiautonomous | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
Kurdish region in the north, where some of these representatives are, | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
has been speaking to a spokesperson for them. At the moment they are | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
still trying to piece together a common goal which they say is the | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
overthrow of the Iraqi Government of Nouri Al-Maliki. | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
We have heard from William Hague and John Kerry that they see a political | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
solution to the crisi. At the moment we have got political stalemate, | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
Nouri Al-Maliki is trying to form a Government, yesterday they convened | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
and it broke up in less than two hours and we are no further. | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
Meanwhile the fighting is going on, and there is a growing realisation | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
that you may be able to talk to the Sunni tribes and the ba'athist, but | :31:32. | :31:38. | |
you can't talk toment ISIS, and -- talk toies circumstance but when you | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
come to them it has to be a military solution. | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
What about the warplanes that came to Baghdad? We saw them flying over | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
here three of them. The experts say they are Russian aircraft that may | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
have originally been Iraqi before the first Gulf War but ended up in | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
Iran, they are coming back. That raises the question, who is flying | :32:03. | :32:09. | |
them, are they piloted by Iranians or not. It raises the prospect of | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
two lots of aircraft flying over Iraq, American and Iranians, both on | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
the same side defending the same Government against ISIS. Something | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
that would have been unthinkable a short time ago. Clearly the Iraqi | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
military is struggling and on the ground that struggling is | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
manifesting itself in the proliferation of Shi'ite militia | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
groups. They have been forming here in Baghdad. I have been spending | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
time talking to them over the past few days. | :32:40. | :32:52. | |
Ramadan has started, it is a time of prayer, a time of fasting. But | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
behind the quiet facade, a mobilisation is taking place. On the | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
streets, the sense of calm is deceptive. Over the past few days we | :33:03. | :33:10. | |
have been invited to meetings at houses on residential back streets. | :33:11. | :33:20. | |
There is some kind of gathering of the clans here going on. Inside | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
local tribal chiefs have gathered for a summit with a Shia militia | :33:27. | :33:34. | |
group. They are one of several sending fighters up to the | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
frontlines to bolster the Iraqi security forces battling ISIS. This | :33:38. | :33:47. | |
commander says they are thirsty to fight, and said until recently they | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
were in Syria defending a shrine. But they returned to Iraq in | :33:53. | :34:02. | |
response to a call to arms by the Ayatolla, the country's most senior | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
Cher Rick. TRANSLATION: We are a professional and pious group. ISIS | :34:09. | :34:17. | |
are terrorists, Wahabists from Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey. Some | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
people in certain areas in Baghdad have said they are very worried | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
about the reassurance of militia on the street. What do you say to those | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
who fear another sectarian war? TRANSLATION: The unanies and Shia | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
are brothers, we are the same both and share the same responsibility. | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
We asked the USA and Britain, all the great powers to help Iraq fight | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
terrorism. These people are extremists trying to wipe out | :34:51. | :34:59. | |
civilisation. On the eve of Ramadan the fighters gather for a final | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
midday meal. Some of the militia men are clerics, this commander in the | :35:04. | :35:11. | |
white turban is an Iman. Despite the talk of brotherhood, there is no | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
mistaking the sectarian overtones of the conflict. | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
There is a whole proliferation of the Shi'ite militias in Baghdad, | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
this lot allied with the Government and working together with the Iraqi | :35:25. | :35:31. | |
security forces, others are completely independent oar | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
completely funded by the Iranians. ISIS control is to the north and | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
west of here, but there are very realistic fears there could be | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
infiltrators here in Baghdad. The militias are deployed at checkpoints | :35:48. | :35:54. | |
throughout the city. In another quiet district we meet the spokesman | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
for Hezbollah, they say they are not related to the Lebanese group of the | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
same name, but they are thought to have close ties to Iran. | :36:03. | :36:09. | |
TRANSLATION: Everyone wants to know if we are supported or not by Iran. | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
Well Arabic countries, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and America, they are | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
supporting terrorism in Iraq with weapons and money. Er Obama has | :36:19. | :36:25. | |
asked for money to support the Syrian opposition. We are asking all | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
countries to support us politically and militarily. Iran is part of | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
that. Iran has proven it doesn't abandon its allies. Look at Syria. | :36:34. | :36:41. | |
He says his group doesn't receive direct funding or weapons from Iran. | :36:42. | :36:44. | |
But they are not hiding their affiliation. On the hall portraits | :36:45. | :36:54. | |
of the leaders. TRANSLATION: No different from having a poster of | :36:55. | :37:01. | |
Nelson Mandela or Che Gurvara, he tells me. In other cities militia | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
groups are deployed to project mosque STLIENs. It was the bombing | :37:08. | :37:14. | |
of a holy site that ignited a sectarian Civil War, mortars arrived | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
there last night, another large scale attack could have catastrophic | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
consequences. . As the sun loses some of its scourging intensity, the | :37:25. | :37:31. | |
tribal chiefs gather in the relative school of the evening. They talk | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
about a coming together of all Iraqis, Sunni, Shia and Kurd. But | :37:35. | :37:44. | |
the Sheikhs are here to pledge support for a militia. The Iman | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
turned fighter talks about victory in battle, of enemies killed and | :37:51. | :37:59. | |
captured. Iraq is being sucked into a wider regional and sectarian war. | :38:00. | :38:09. | |
They sing that they are vengeful people and they demand revenge. | :38:10. | :38:17. | |
Burials at sea are part of the sea faring tradition and folklore, they | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
have become much less common but open to everyone. In the UK there | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
are about ten a year, most taking place off the Isle of Wight. But the | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
coroner there have raised concerns that bodies and body parts, often | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
washed up on the island, might be from the burial ceremonies. | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
Investigations into the identities of the deceased are costing | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
thousands of pounds. And there is thoughts of DNA records for those | :38:44. | :38:50. | |
buried at sea. Every now and then a beach-goer on | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
the Isle of Wight gets a little more than they bargained for. Over the | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
years numerous bodies and body parts have washed up on the shores of the | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
island. Puzzling many, including the coroner here. This is the on-line | :39:06. | :39:15. | |
editor at the Isle of Wight County Press, he has reported on many of | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
the discoveries. We have examples from the last ten years, but | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
stemming back further than that. Going back decades where coroners | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
have to deal with it. This case from 2005 is the biggest of this kind. It | :39:29. | :39:37. | |
was found by a beach comber and discovers a body entirely naked | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
except for its socks. Leaving police and investigators mystified as to | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
where the body had come from, and the circumstances that had led to it | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
being discovered in the beach. In this case, just like many others, | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
the coroner speculated that the body had come from a burial at sea. But | :39:56. | :40:06. | |
could that really happen? Just south of the needles is where | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
almost all of the UK burials take place. Newsnight has been given | :40:12. | :40:25. | |
exclusive access to one such burial. This is John Lister and he has | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
conducted 60 terms here. When the deceased comes into our cautious we | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
normally try to get out to sea at the first available opportunity. | :40:36. | :40:42. | |
There is an area 2. 5 miles south of the Needles that is dreamed as being | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
the most suitable part on the south coast for a burial at sea. It is | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
unaffected by tides, fishing, tredging and trawling. As we reached | :40:53. | :41:00. | |
the area, we often played music there. Often it is the case we will | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
play Elgar's Nimrod. We are overlooked by the monument to tennis | :41:07. | :41:14. | |
son -- Tennison, we will read his Crossing the Bar. But "But such a | :41:15. | :41:23. | |
tide as moving seems asleep, too full for sound and foam, when that | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
which drew from out the boundless keep, turns again home." Then there | :41:29. | :41:38. | |
is the committal itself. Which is over in the blink of an eye. Then | :41:39. | :41:51. | |
the mourners might like to put some flowers on the surface of the water. | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
The vessel then, or the both will do a 360 did he greet circuit around | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
the point of committal and the flowers. And then we will propose a | :42:03. | :42:10. | |
toast. John is passionate about burials at sea and insists that the | :42:11. | :42:17. | |
processes in place means it is impossible for bodies to break free | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
once they are committed. Within the coffin is a mesh cage, that is then | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
attached to concrete, the concrete weights. There are go-inch holes in | :42:31. | :42:40. | |
the Mesh to allow a certain amount of marine life in. That is why it is | :42:41. | :42:49. | |
feasible that any large body part would escape from a burial at se If | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
it is done properly. Yes. But the assurances haven't convinced the | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
coroner here who has linked some of the bodies washed up to burials at | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
sea. Despite the lack of evidence in several cases. In this case the | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
corpse was so decomposed, some thought it was the body of Lord | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
Lucan. The evidence is weak, you could be looking for a sea burial or | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
a murder where a body has been disposed of at sea. Tossed | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
overboard. And is just left to the tides. The problem is it is very | :43:27. | :43:36. | |
difficult to identify a heavily decomposed body. If you don't know | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
who it was how do you know where they came from, and how do you know | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
if they were butteried at sea -- buried at sea. I have asked the | :43:46. | :43:48. | |
coroner for an interview, they have refused to talk to me. I have | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
requested files on relevant cases but once again the answer was no. It | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
takes it very difficult to know what is really going on here. It is | :43:58. | :44:05. | |
because of the uncertainty around what exactly is being found on the | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
coast of the Isle of Wight, that the Home Office is considering bringing | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
in mand drew DNA tests for anyone being buried at sea. | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
The hope is that if introduced it will end the controversy and | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
speculation. I welcome it, it can only be good. If some funeral | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
directors do cut corners and if there is any truth in what you say | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
then you know DNA testing will make them pull their socks up. It now | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
looks likely that a decision will be made in the autumn. And if DNA tests | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
are given the go-ahead, perhaps we will finally get an answer to what | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
is turning up on the island's shores. | :44:53. | :44:53. | |
Now the front pages: ??FORCEDWHIT That's just about all | :44:54. | :45:43. | |
tonight, when it comes to apologies, we don't expect a great deal from | :45:44. | :45:54. | |
politicians, the minute mum minute yum amount of minutes. | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
But in Japan, this man has become an internet hit for taking excuses to a | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
whole new level as he tried to explain away his use of public funds | :46:04. | :46:10. | |
in seconds not hours, Westminster take note! | :46:11. | :46:22. | |
# Have mercy # Have mercy baby | :46:23. | :46:34. | |
# Have mercy # Have mercy | :46:35. | :46:58. | |
The best of the sunshine for Thursday certainly the further south | :46:59. | :47:05. | |
and east you go. A band of cloud and the odd spot or two of rain sits | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
across northern England and | :47:09. | :47:09. |