Browse content similar to 18/07/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The British Government has said tonight that the growing weight of | :00:00. | :00:11. | |
evidence suggests that the Malaysian flight was bound by a surface-to-air | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
missile fired by seperatists in Ukraine. And President Obama pointed | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
the finger at Vladimir Putin for training and arming them, he's not | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
alone. Tonight we are in Washington, Malaysia and Ukraine. | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
Here in Kiev senior military officials have poured scorn on the | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
idea that the aeroplane could have been brought down by the rebels | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
alone. Like a horseman trying to drive a Formula One racing car is | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
how one officer described it. Why were the people who died ever | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
put in the firing line when aviation authorities, the Russians and even | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
amateur experts all knew planes had been previously shot down in the | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
same area. When I looked on Tuesday morning, when I wrote my blog post, | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
by then the Russian aircrafts were bypassing the eastern Ukrainian part | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
and were flying around the Russian borders, so they were giving this | :01:04. | :01:11. | |
area a wide berth. Here in Kuala Lumpur the Government is adamant is | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
played by the book. The route and altitude was signed off at the | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
highest international level, the airline insists it is not to blame. | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
We hear from a former US Secretary of State of defence and former | :01:23. | :01:34. | |
foreign and Defence Secretary. Good evening. 298 lives, more than half | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
of them Dutch, 80 of them children, and amongst the dead ten Britons. | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
There is a growing conviction on both sides of the Atlantic about | :01:44. | :01:55. | |
where the blame lies. The Foreign Office is helping the repatriation | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
of those killed, without a ceasefire where the plane was bounce downed, | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
how hard is it for the air accident investigators to begin their work. | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
The OSCE, was the first to get the investigators in today. Even though | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
they did get access, under the auspices of the Ukrainian rebels. | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
They said they were very circumscribed in what they could do. | :02:23. | :02:30. | |
We were only there if the for an hour an-and-a-half, they said one of | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
the fighters was aggressive and violent, one firing in the air. I | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
have spoken to Dutch colleagues in touch with their side, they want to | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
send investigators in as well because of the large number of Dutch | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
people who lost their lives. They say they are very worried for their | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
safety, that is their prime concern. Now the other difficulty with this | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
investigation is of course jurisdiction, nobody agrees who has | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
jurisdiction over this investigation. It should be an | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
international one, but led by the country in which the crash occurred. | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
But in fact there are worries that things like the black box and data | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
recorders may have already been removed may already been in Russia, | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
so some people are worried about data and evidence contamination. Now | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
that said, there is already such a lot of evidence out there that many | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
experts agree that it shouldn't take too long to get a pretty clear | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
picture of what happened here and when that does become clear this | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
could become a game changer for this conflict. We're about to show you | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
the report we have compiled here this afternoon and I should say that | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
some viewers may find some of the images, especially towards the end, | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
distressing. Outside the Dutch embassy in Kiev | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
they are grieving as if for their own. | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
But these aren't relatives of the nearly 200 Dutch national who is | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
lost their lives yesterday. These are Ukrainians. For weeks we have | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
shed our tears over our own dead, the Ukraine President said today, we | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
have tears left for the innocent victims of this crime. Today Ukraine | :04:01. | :04:10. | |
mourns with you. Monitors from the OSCE reached the crash site this | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
afternoon, they said rebel forces tried to hinder them in their | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
investigations. MH17 was brought down by a missile, this much we | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
know. But there are still many unanswered questions, who fired the | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
rocket and where did the launcher come from? Kiev says this unverified | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
footage shows a Soviet or Russian BUK surveys-to-air missile system on | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
the move near the crash site missing two missiles. Here is a similar | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
model on display on Red Square in Moscow. But the Ukrainian military | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
uses the BUK system too, at the end of June rebels bragged they captured | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
a BUK launcher when they overran a military base in eastern Ukraine. At | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
around the same time as the Malaysian passenger jet crashed a | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
rebel leader claimed on social media to have downed a military transport | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
plane, after news of the passenger jet broke the post was deleted. So | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
did the rebels shoot down the plane thinking it was a Ukrainian military | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
aircraft, and if so, did they get help from Russia? At meetings of the | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
military top brass, behind closed doors, I'm told they admit they | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
can't be certain whether this rocket launcher was brought across the | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
border from Russia or captured by rebels here in Ukraine. But they do | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
believe that whoever fired the missile must have had help from the | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
Russian side, especially in targeting. The idea that this plane | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
was brought down by a bunch of Cossacks, one senior officer said, | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
driving a Formula One car. This driving a Formula One car. This | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
general was deputy chief of Ukraine's defence staff until 2010 | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
and an expert on rocket technology. He is convinced that the rebels | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
couldn't have acted alone. TRANSLATION: They don't have the | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
specialists, so they are using the Crimean template. Russian military | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
service personnel without identification marks on their | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
uniforms come in alongside the rebels, the whole thing is prepared | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
by a Russian team. In Moscow President Putin denied any Russian | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
involvement and laid the blame for the crash squarely at Kiev's door. | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
TRANSLATION: I express my condolences on behalf of the Russian | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
federation, I want to underline that this tragedy would not have happened | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
if this land was at peace or at least combat operations had not been | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
resumed. It is obvious that the state on whose territory this | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
happened bears the responsibility for this. But in Washington, | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
intelligence analysts say the downing of MH17 follows a disturbing | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
pattern. We also know that this is not the first time a plane has been | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
shot down in eastern Ukraine. Over the last several weeks | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
Russian-backed seperatists have shot down a Ukrainian transport plane and | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
helicopter, and they claimed responsibility for a Ukrainian | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
fighter jet. Moreover we know these seperatists have received a steady | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
flow of support from Russia. This includes arms and training. It | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
includes heavy weapons, and it includes antiaircraft weapons. On | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
Independence Square in Kiev, the barricades are still there, months | :07:34. | :07:42. | |
after the old President was toppled but Ukrainians come here, not only | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
to pay their respects to those who died fighting in their revolution. | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
This woman's homemade poster needs no translation. Like many in this | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
city, she sees Russia as the aggressive and believes Europe and | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
America are letting him get away with it. TRANSLATION: You can fight | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
Putin, she says, but you have to want to fight. This is where it all | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
began, here on Independence Square, first here at the barricades with | :08:11. | :08:12. | |
peaceful protests, first here at the barricades with | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
dead bodies lying right here on the streets, and sniper fire whizzing up | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
and down over these cobble stones. Now the fighting may have moved east | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
now but as you can see Ukraine is still very much unfinished business. | :08:27. | :08:35. | |
Today in the eastern side of Luhansk, shelling left more dead | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
bodies in the streets. The fighting has been going on for months now, | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
misery at home but largely ignored abroad. With the search for the | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
bodies of the passengers of MH17, for the men, women and children who | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
were shot down over the fields of eastern Ukraine, has propelled this | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
conflict back to the forefront of the international agenda. Once the | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
facts of this strategy become clearer, Russia and the west may be | :09:00. | :09:08. | |
forced to deal with the problem. To discuss this I'm joined now by | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
the former American deputy Defence Secretary, who is in Washington, and | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
in the studio we have the former foreign secretary, Sir Malcolm | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
Rifkind and the bureau chief of the Dutch radio station. | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
First of all, do you think there is any real doubt now that Vladimir | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
Putin's hands are all over this? Look, let me put it this way, if you | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
give your car keys to a drunken teenager and he goes and kills a, it | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
seems to me you are responsible and that is what you intended, it is | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
more than just training and arming, it is incitement, and this whole | :09:46. | :09:53. | |
tragedy and it is a tragedy, yet another chapter that began when | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
Putin decided on Russian nationalism over Crimea, totally groundlessly, I | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
think it is because he wants to divert attention from the corruption | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
of his own regime in Moscow. Now that Downing Street has firmed up | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
its position on this, is there any real doubt? There is, but obviously | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
the independent inquiry has to do its job and come to its own | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
conclusion. It is not just a question as to whether the actual | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
attack on the aircraft came from the rebels in eastern Ukraine. There | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
will thenk be a secondary question and a more important one, who was it | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
controlling the missile launchers, was it the Ukrainian rebels or | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
Russian Special Forces. You heard there it was like putting a guy who | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
rides a horse in charge of a Formula One car? That was the question about | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
whether getting advice and help from Russia. I'm not making the | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
allegation, I don't know, we know there are large numbers of so called | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
Russia volunteer who is are soldiers not wearing uniforms. They could | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
have been actually controlling the missile launchers themselves rather | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
than simply training the rebels. If that is bound to be the case, found | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
to be the case, the consequences of that are what? Putin has to actually | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
own up as to the fact that there are large numbers of Russian citizens | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
I'm talking about, from the Russian federation who are actually fighting | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
with the seperatists. There are Chechens but also from other parts | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
of Russia. That actually makes the whole issue far more dangerous and | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
disturbing even than it would otherwise have been. This is | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
Vladimir Putin's strategy gone completely wrong isn't it? I'm not | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
so sure. I would like to step back a bit and go back to the assumption | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
that Russia's hands are all over this. This is what in fact President | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
Obama said just a few hours before, he said all the evidence shows that | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
way, that Russia is to blame. And then, let's conduct an | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
investigation. Now it is like saying that Mr So-and-so is as guilty as | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
sin and let's have an investigation after this. Does that be how the | :12:04. | :12:14. | |
British system works. The seperatists were all too happy to | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
owning up to downing a transport plane or a fighter jet or | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
helicopter? There is so much conflicting evidence, allegations | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
concoctions and conjectures are flying about, I wouldn't put my | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
trust in that. I would trust an objective, impartial investigation. | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
What do you say to point thaw can't -- that you can't have an | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
investigation if you have prejudged it? As Mr Rifkind said there are | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
Russian troops all over yarn Ukraine, so called volunteers, some | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
of the called Chechens are the same Chechens that were helping Moscow | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
carry out its genocide in Chechnya. Putin should remove the Russian | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
troops from Ukraine and stop sending weapons in. You don't need an | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
investigation to know that activity has to stop. He should stop inciting | :13:05. | :13:15. | |
Russian separatism throughout the area. Why does Vladimir Putin feel | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
he can act with impunity, is it because there is not enough been | :13:23. | :13:30. | |
doing post-Crimea to show its opposition? Europe has been SLOES. | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
Everyone is a-- slowest. Everyone is afraid. I just said Putin is pouring | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
gasoline on the fire and everyone else is afraid to pour some as well. | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
The key to ending this adventure of Putin's is to make sure it will be | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
defeated and not by British or American troops, not by Poles but | :13:53. | :14:00. | |
Ukrainians, they have shown enormous will to fight for their integrity | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
and territory. That was negated by Cameron, Obama a few years ago. We | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
have serious sanctions imposed by America on the bank, defence firms, | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
energy companie Don't exaggerate, they are minor banks and they don't | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
affect much. Is that the problem, there hasn't been any fortitude or | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
backbone by Europe or America? There has been a very timid response. If | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
you think about Crimea, a whole province of Ukraine, annexed by | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
Putin some months ago, and the only reaction was some visa restrictions | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
and asset freezes on a couple of dozen Russians. Putin does have an | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
Achilles heel, it is its Russian economy. If you | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
Achilles heel, it is its Russian example how the Iranians have been | :14:48. | :14:48. | |
brought to example how the Iranians have been | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
nuclear programme by-election financial and banking sanction, | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
Russia is not Iran. We have seen how the Russian stop exchange | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
dramatically falls every time there is a threat of serious financial | :15:01. | :15:03. | |
sanctions. Are you embarrassed by the lack of activity by Europe? Yes, | :15:04. | :15:16. | |
absolutely. We could have done more, Putin is an opportunist, and if the | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
west reacts in a timid way to the annexation of Crimea, it is not | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
surprising he has been testing to see how much further he can go. Did | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
David Cameron take his eye off the ball, was there not enough firm | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
leadership? There is evidence that Cameron was trying to get more | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
agreement than proved possible in the European Union, I hope that is | :15:37. | :15:46. | |
the case. Will it be sanctions and the Russian economy be the only | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
thing to pull Vladimir Putin away from this? If you are looking for | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
anything from me you are knocking at the wrong door. I want to go back to | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
the issue of Crimea, London and Washington have decided the fate of | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
Crimea, there are two million residents of Crimea, don't they have | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
a say. But Crimea was part of a sovereign country? Excuse me it is a | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
very complicated issue, and we have to go back into history to resolve | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
that. Forgive me, when Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
weapons, as part of that agreement Russia recognised the existing | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
borders of Ukraine, including Crimea, that has been a very | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
dangerous thing for that now to have been abandoned. What do you think | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
Vladimir Putin's next move will be? We are in a situation now where will | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
the relations between the west and Vladimir Putin ever recover from | :16:42. | :16:50. | |
this. What must he do next. I don't know I don't know what his next move | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
will be, I hope he has gotten a taste of how things have gotten out | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
of hand and it is reinforced by world action, not just the US and | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
Europe, although they need to be leading this. But you know 100 | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
people heading to the international AIDS conference in Melbourne have | :17:08. | :17:10. | |
been ruthlessly murdered in this incident. Again he's playing with | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
fire, the fire can burn a lot of people and a lot of people need to | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
send a message to him to back off. I don't know whether he will back off, | :17:19. | :17:25. | |
but he must. If I may, yes it is a terrible tragedy that 300 innocent | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
people completely having nothing to do with Ukraine at all perished in | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
such a manner, I mean it is plausible that it was an accident, | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
but should we forget about the 500 people that perished in Ukraine | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
because of the military action by Ukrainian Government. We are moving | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
off from this, we need to nail this one point that there are BUK | :17:49. | :17:55. | |
antiaircraft launchers in Ukraine, in eastern Ukraine and they have | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
been put there by the Russians? We don't know that. The Ukrainian army | :17:59. | :18:06. | |
has those same BUK. Not in eastern Ukraine? According to the Russian | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
defence ministrier there are and they were moved there in the past | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
few days. Is there any way that Vladimir Putin can back down from | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
this? I think he must be very worried now, up until now this has | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
been a dispute purely involving America and Europeans, because of | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
the destruction of the Malaysian airliner, this is a humanitarian | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
disaster not just happening in a far away country, this is something | :18:34. | :18:36. | |
which the whole world will be very angry about. Putin has to do | :18:37. | :18:43. | |
something to assuage that. There may be increasing certainty about who | :18:44. | :18:53. | |
certain traited the a-- certain perpetrated the atrocity. But should | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
the plane will be flying over a warzone. There was a public warning | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
that the Russian Government had been training pro--Russian separatists to | :19:05. | :19:11. | |
have an antiaircraft capability, the use was on the west side. Add to | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
that the fact that two Ukrainian planes, one a small transport plane, | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
two a military plane were downed this week, should the Malaysian | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
plane have taken another route. We are in Kuala Lumpur. | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
I suppose if the last Malaysian Airlines strategy here four months | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
ago was about disbelief, incomprehension, nagging doubt that | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
the Government here might have done more. This time round in Kuala | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
Lumpur it is different, the sense that the grief is shared around the | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
world, and a sense that finger of blame is not pointing at them. A | :19:50. | :19:52. | |
Government spokesman told me earlier that the route that flight MH17 and | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
the altitude it was at were signed off at the very highest level by the | :19:59. | :20:06. | |
international civil aviation de on Authority. They feel vindicated it | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
was not to -- the Civil Aviation Authority, they feel vindicated it | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
was not to blame. A curious picture is emerging, we know that Ukrainian | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
authorities warned that airspace was dangerous, back on Monday night, | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
when a Ukrainian transport plane was shot down. We know they put in place | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
minimum attitude requirements of 32,000 feet. MH17 cleared those, but | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
only just cleared them at 33,000. So questions tonight of why the | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
airspace wasn't shut down completely when they knew the situation there | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
to be so fraught. Questions as the unspeakable pain of what happened on | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
Thursday is only just starting to hit home. | :20:46. | :21:02. | |
Who would have thought these images would be so scrutinised and so | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
filled with pain. The last moments of the passengers who three hours | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
later would become British victims of an act of terror as bizarre as it | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
is brutal. The names of some of those who died emerged today and | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
their reasons for travel. The students heading off for a gap year, | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
two Newcastle United fans on the way to watch them on a pre-seen tour. | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
One father learning of his son's death from the club's own website. | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
The AIDS activist joining colleagues for a key summit in Melbourne. Here | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
at Malaysia's Kuala Lumpur Airport a sense of disbelief that lightning | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
can strike twice, but less anger in the grief as the country more | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
confidently points the finger of blame elsewhere. I'm told by a | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
Malaysian Government spokesman that some three hours before flight MH17 | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
took off they sent their flight plan for approval as is customary. The | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
plan and altitude was signed off by the Civil Aviation Authority, the | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
international body that is in control of these things. The | :22:09. | :22:10. | |
significance of that, says the airline, is crucial. It means the | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
tragedy itself was not of their making. ? So the questions now turn | :22:15. | :22:22. | |
to those who deemed the space safe. MH17 took off just after midday, by | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
2. 15 GMT air traffic control had lost contact. Authorities, it seems, | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
knew there was danger. On Monday Ukraine imposed a ban of flights | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
below 32,000, MH17 had cleared the required altitude, but only by 1,000 | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
feet, it was flying at 33,000. And you have to think if they knew a | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
rocket launcher in the area could reach 70,000 feet why wasn't the | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
airspace banned all together. The responsibility for deciding the | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
availability for the space used by aircraft is entirely that of each | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
country and state. That is well established principle under the | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
international civil aviation organisation rules and procedures. | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
Since last Monday the 14th of July that exclusion zone, if you wish, | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
that flights were not allowed to operate, was extended vertically fr | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
ground up to and including 32,000 feet. Then there is the blogger who | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
predicted it all, simply by following what was to him an evident | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
and emerging pattern. When I looked on Tuesday morning and I wrote my | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
blog post, by then the Russian aircrafts were bypassing the eastern | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
Ukrainian part and were flying around the Russian broaders, so they | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
were giving -- borders, so they were giving the area a wide berth. If it | :23:49. | :23:58. | |
was obvious to me it should be obvious to airlines that this is | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
getting into harm's way. There is people here with unpredictable | :24:03. | :24:09. | |
behaviours who are in charge of sophisticated and powerful weapons | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
systems. The analysis will not stop here, there will be claims and | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
counter claims, blame and counter blame, and surely a change to flight | :24:18. | :24:25. | |
procedure here on. But as the world becomes experts in the aviation | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
flight back a single plane took, on the ground a tragedy whose scope is | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
only beginning to unfold, many nations mourn their own dead and | :24:37. | :24:43. | |
look to the inexplicable. As we start to get more information about | :24:44. | :24:44. | |
what happened to start to get more information about | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
MH17, questions are asked about why flights were able to fly over | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
conflict areas like the Ukraine. We speak to our guest now. The | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
Malaysians say they were doing it by the book, if they were following | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
what they were told to do, why were they blown out of the sky? Yeah, | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
that is a jolly good question. You know the point about this is that | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
this is a l-worn, a well-trodden path that the aircraft do use. The | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
shortest possible route between European airports and those airports | :25:22. | :25:28. | |
in south-east Asia. Because of that and because of the longevity, I | :25:29. | :25:35. | |
suppose, of the Malaysian Airlines flight in question, it had been | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
tracking backwards and forwards across that bit of the sky for an | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
awful long time. I suppose they felt safe to do so. If I could just bring | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
in another couple of points, one, the Ukrainians themselves had warned | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
there were problems and fly above 32,000, that really wasn't | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
sufficient, we knew from the NATO Supreme Allied Commander in Europe | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
as early as late June that there was activity, there was training for | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
antiaircraft missile activity on the eastern side of the border, but used | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
on the western side of the border, why did that information either not | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
get to the authorities or get to the authorities and the authorities | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
didn't pay any attention to it? Whose ultimate responsibility is it | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
to decide who flies where? I guess the ultimate responsibility comes | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
down to the international civil aviation organisation. They are the | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
organisation that signed this entire airspace for the whole of Ukraine, | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
including the eastern part as safe to fly in. But do they listen, but | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
do they take into account things like NATO public warnings. Things | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
like analysis of what's going on the ground, secret reports and so forth. | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
How could they possibly miss this? How could they, indeed. You know, | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
one would hope that the various safety authorities around the world | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
do take notice of the information that's being fed to them. But | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
evidently not in this case. I'm interested, because you are an | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
expert, somebody will have to pay for this part of the problem, you | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
know, in that 90 seconds, around about that, there was a Singapore | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
flight, there was a Malaysian Airlines other flight, there was a | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
Thai Airlines flight, it could be one of any number of flights, | :27:27. | :27:34. | |
areofloat we understand -- Areoflot stopped flying we understand. Who | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
has failed in their duty to stop civilian aircraft flying in this | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
area? The answer is that it could be anyone of a number of alphabet soup | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
of organisations that has failed in their duty of care, if you will to | :27:50. | :27:57. | |
protect passengers who are flying in international flight. That is going | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
to be the subject of some deep soul searching as we go forward to | :28:02. | :28:08. | |
determine who is directly at fault in all of this tragic tragic | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
accident. We have only got time for one short question, we know that the | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
crash investigators have been limited to what they can do in the | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
site. What is the key thing to look for on the site. The most important | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
thing is the retrieval of the bodies, what will they look at to | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
point them to what missile it was and who it belong today? Once the | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
retrieval of the bodies has taken place, of course then evidently they | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
are going to be looking for the two black boxes, and beyond that they | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
will be examining the fuselage with a fine tooth comb and looking for | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
the tell tale signs of explosives. With that they may well get an | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
indication as to precisely what type of missile brought the aircraft out | :28:58. | :29:05. | |
of the sky. When the Conservative manifesto for the general election | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
is published it is likely to feature tough promises on immigration, but | :29:10. | :29:11. | |
is fear of immigration different from the reality. Newsnight has been | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
leaked a new Home Office report that will bear that out. But the report | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
into the impact of immigration has been blocked and delayed because of | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
a row between ministers over whether it paints too Rosie a picture of | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
immigration. -- rosy a picture of immigration. There is a | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
demonstration of a largely positive affect for business in Britain. This | :29:34. | :29:41. | |
is our exclusive report. This was the week the Tories got | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
tough on Europe. First a reshuffle, then a dig at the European Court of | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
Human Rights. All red meat to the euro-sceptics, but there is a report | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
lurking in Whitehall they will find harder to swallow. Newsnight has | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
been leaked a confidential document which has been causing some people | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
here at the Home Office to have kittens. It has been fought over, | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
word by word, line by line, for the best part of a year. It should have | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
been published months ago, why hasn't it? Because it is regarded as | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
too pro-European. The report pulls together evidence from dozens of | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
groups and businesses about immigration from the EU. The good | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
and the bad. And some of it makes startling reading. The majority of | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
EU nationals come here to work, there is no evidence that access to | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
benefits was a significant factor in migration. European immigrants are | :30:36. | :30:43. | |
less intense users of the social security system than UK nationals. | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
Little hard evidence regarding problems in community cohesion as a | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
result of EU migration. The affects are viewed as largely -- the effects | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
are viewed as largely positive, providing a wide range of skilled | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
labour and opportunities for workers. This report leaked has a | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
broad support? It doesn't surprise me, there are lots of studies that | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
show we benefit from free movement. UCL did a study to show we were | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
billions better off, and new companies set up by migrants who | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
employ a lot of people here. And Britons been fit from free movement | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
to live in France, pain or wherever else. Some areas have been affected | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
more than others by our open borders. Ealing in west London is | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
one of them. On a boiling hot day, we asked shoppers if they were | :31:37. | :31:38. | |
getting hot under the They come here and get the best job | :31:39. | :31:54. | |
and go back and live a luxury life. I'm the son of an immigrant, I come | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
from an Irish family, Britain is an immigrant-friendly country, I think. | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
We have an inflation of eastern Europeans, especially in west London | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
actually, and it overkilled on work flow with everybody else. For me | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
Europe it means that people can go everywhere, for me it is a good | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
thing. This morning I was in Paris and now I'm here, for me it is | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
really good. The report is not one-way traffic by any means. It | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
highlights concerns about the impact on lowly-paid British workers and on | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
certain communities. But of the 60-odd contributors to the report, | :32:35. | :32:36. | |
most of the negative comments come from three think-tanks, | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
Migrationwatch, Open Europe, and Demos. The problem with complete | :32:42. | :32:48. | |
freedom of movement is not so much the freedom of movement, it is the | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
fact that we have this principle of nondiscrimination, which means that | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
you have to treat all European Union citizens effectively as if they are | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
British citizens, that is what people don't understand. Not just in | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
Britain but throughout the European Union. | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
Newsnight has been told the Home Office vetoed the first draft, and | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
rewrote it. This version horrified Liberal Democrats and they insisted | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
civil servants hammer out the final text. That was completed months ago. | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
Unfortunately this is something that has happened time and time again, | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
when there are studies which the Home Office has done which say the | :33:25. | :33:27. | |
opposite of what the Home Secretary would like them to say, there is a | :33:28. | :33:30. | |
tendency of them not coming out promptly I can understand why for | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
political reasons the Conservatives didn't want the facts to come out | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
before the European election, but we should make our policies based on | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
the fact that reports like this should come out promptly. This | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
review has stoked the debate, and it isn't even out yet. After months of | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
sitting on the shelf, the Home Office now says the report will be | :33:49. | :33:56. | |
published shortly. I spoke to the Business Secretary, | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
Vince Cable earlier today, I asked him how he explained the fact that | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
this report hadn't come out yet, even though there was a copy ready | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
in December? There was a disagreement in Government as to how | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
to do this, there was a draft that came through the Home Office that | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
was frankly rather one-sided. We disagreed with the content and I | :34:16. | :34:28. | |
thought it was propagandaist, we went back to the drawing board and | :34:29. | :34:31. | |
it now acknowledges there are some problems with the free movement and | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
impact on service, many of the studies quoted show it is economic | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
benefit to the UK. Were you intimately involved in, as it were, | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
the reversioning of it? I was involved. And indeed there was a lot | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
of working across Government to make sure that what emerged reflected the | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
different views of people within the Government across the coalition and | :34:55. | :34:57. | |
different ministers. I think what has emerged is a balanced and | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
sensible product. But, you are actually supporting a Government | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
that is actively, as it were, trying to say that there are problems with | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
immigration? This is about free movement within the, it is not about | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
the wide -- within the European Union, it is not about the wider | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
implication, there are different views about it. You don't see the | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
irony in colluding and shoring up legislation that goes entirely | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
against your own argument? It is not a collusion, we have to compromise | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
so we can function. Immigration is a difficult area where there are very | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
different views in Government. Ranging from people who would want a | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
complete clampdown ranging to others with a much more open and liberal | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
approach. My job within Government is to argue the business case and | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
also nor -- for universities and higher education. All the evidence | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
we have is the contribution immigrants make is positive, and we | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
have won that argument. The Liberal Democrats are not without a locust | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
in this debate in an area that presumably you wouldn't agree with, | :36:10. | :36:12. | |
which was when Nick Clegg brought up the idea of migrant bonds. It was | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
dropped, it is not happening. Do you regret the fact it was even brought | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
up? There is no harm in raising ideas. It was tested out and felt | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
not to be a good idea and we're not sur suing it, I'm pleased with that | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
because it has raised a reaction in countries where we want more | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
visitors. How comfortable can you be, being within a coalition whose | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
mood music is one of problems with immigration, problems for | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
communities, and so forth, in a sense you where standing | :36:47. | :36:48. | |
shoulder-to-shoulder with other members of this Government who put | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
an entirely different spin on this? The coalition is a buys-like | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
relationship to provide stable Government and deal with the | :37:00. | :37:02. | |
financial crisis. That is why we got into it and it works well on that | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
level. When you take about mood music this is the public mood music, | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
there is anxiety from the general public, that is where we start from. | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
It is a perfectly legitimate objective of both sides to reassure | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
the public that migration is properly under control. I sign up | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
for that. Statement, given my job and also as a Liberal Democrat in | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
Government, I want to argue the case for the single market within the | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
European Union which is beneficial to the UK. It is true, of course, | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
that you have taken a very particular stand on immigration for | :37:36. | :37:38. | |
a long time. That has been your watchword. But on the whole question | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
of something like the spare room subsidy, right from the beginning | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
you know you supported the idea of the spare room subsidy, but right | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
from the beginning Ed Miliband was saying this was vicious, and it has | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
taken a report to come out before the Liberal Democrats will stand up | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
and say now we don't believe in it. On that particular one the issue was | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
not so much about the principle but how it was applied in an environment | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
where there simply wasn't a great deal of scope for people to downsize | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
rooms and it required the emergence of hard evidence. At the last party | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
conference the Liberal Democrats made it very clear as a party we did | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
not agree with the way the spare room subsidy was working. This isn't | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
something that has happened forth week, we have been clear for -- this | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
week, we have been clear we have been believing in that for a long | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
time and how we want to do it. Time for the front pages. | :38:36. | :39:03. | |
That's it from us, we leave you with a few of the amazing photographs, | :39:04. | :39:09. | |
amateur and professional of the lightning storms that kept half the | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
country awake last night. We hope you sleep better tonight. Good | :39:13. | :39:13. | |
night. Hello, more thunderstorms | :39:14. | :40:05. | |
congression the UK, more vie -- crossing the UK. It will be a stormy | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
Saturday as well, heavy downpours | :40:10. | :40:11. |