Browse content similar to 21/07/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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bearing the bodies of the survivors of flight MH17 and the black box | :00:13. | :00:14. | |
will be handed to investigators. where Russian separatist are | :00:15. | :00:24. | |
creating chaos. The They are saying they are not terrorists, and | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
peaceful people are dying. We will hear from the Russianle garage all | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
sander Levadev. The Prime Minister says Europe must confront Vladimir | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
Putin. If he doesn't change his approach to Ukraine in this way, | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
then Europe and the west must fundamentally change our approach to | :00:42. | :00:49. | |
Russia. Despite his insistence that the UK has stopped selling weapons | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
to Russia, Newsnight have found some weapons are still for sale. We have | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
found that British arms dealers are licensed to sell to Russia. | :01:02. | :01:08. | |
Is our passion for on-demand TV killing the middle brow shows we | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
used to like. I almost pity him. The proms have come to Newsnight, we | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
begin our own special season. Good evening, the UN Security | :01:17. | :01:39. | |
Council has tonight unanimously adopted a resolution calling for | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
investigators to be given safe and unrestricted access to the site | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
where flight MH17 crashed in eastern Ukraine. So, Russia voted in favour. | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
Will the separatist rebels, thought to be behind this shooting down of | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
the plane genuinely agree to a safe? Today the train carrying many of the | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
dead headed out, where they will be handed over to the Dutch shorts, and | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
there is still chaos and danger near the crash site and nearby Donetsk, | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
where there have been violent clashes today. We're there. It is | :02:10. | :02:19. | |
after midnight in Donetsk, a curfew is in force and a number of armed | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
men with guns have appeared at an impromptu checkpoint behind me. From | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
around the morning we saw heavy shelling inbetween the raily station | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
and the airport, between apparently u-- railway station and the airport. | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
Apparently between Ukrainian forces and the rebels. This carried on | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
throughout the day, I have been hearing the thumps of shells and | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
mortars into the evening. I have to say it has gone quiet a little bit | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
in the last few hours. This happened on day when lots of other things | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
were happening. We have just seen chaotic scenes of a hotel here in | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
Donetsk, with negotiations between Malaysian officials and the rebels | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
over possession of the black boxes, the flight data recorders from that | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
flight. They are, I understand, at the moment still in the possession | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
of the rebels, but negotiations were under way to hand them over. As you | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
said, the train carrying nearly all of the bodies from that flight now | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
finally on the move back towards Ukrainian-held territory. Again we | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
are not quite sure when it might get there. So a very, very busy day on | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
the day that the UN called for safe access to these experts and safe was | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
far from what it was. In the report that we have compiled for you today, | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
you will see some images that some viewers may find distressing. | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
It is four days since the crash, international experts have arrived, | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
and are investigating. But this is still warzone. | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
This morning at least one more civilian would fall victim to this | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
vicious conflict. We're on our way to the crash site when our driver | :03:56. | :04:06. | |
gets a panicked phone call. This is his 13-year-old daughter on the | :04:07. | :04:08. | |
phone and crying and saying the house has just been bombed. We head | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
back into town. Nervous rebels have sealed off the area around the | :04:14. | :04:23. | |
railway station. Suddenly shots ring out. There is some shooting going on | :04:24. | :04:31. | |
now. Not quite clear what's happening, but there is some very | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
agitated men on the road there. Some of them with guns. Around the back | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
of the station the rebels have taken up position. We can hear t faint | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
thud of mortars or shells landing, there is battle going on somewhere | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
between here and the airport, which is held by Government forces. He | :04:53. | :05:00. | |
says we are not terrorists dying but peaceful people dying. You can hear | :05:01. | :05:09. | |
more shelling going on now. Just around the corn certificate a block | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
of flats, several rockets have hitter, residents tell us, | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
shattering windows. Then we see the crater, the first victim, a woman, | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
she looks to be in her 40s or early 50s, she must have been crossing the | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
yard when the rocket struck. This is as are relation block, we don't know | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
where -- residential block, we don't know where the rockets or shells | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
came from, but these people are civilian, we can hear the shelling | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
going on periodically as we speak. Over the weekend emergency service | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
workers, under the direction of armed rebels, began collecting | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
bodies from the crash site in the fields east of Donetsk. In the | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
summer heat, they say, they had no choice, they couldn't wait for the | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
international inspectors to arrive. But the west has accused them of | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
tampering with the evidence. What exactly are they trying to hide | :06:01. | :06:09. | |
Barack Obama asked today. This 77-year-old woman saw the plane come | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
out of the sky. It narrowly missed obliterating her village when one of | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
the wings lands metres from her home. There was a huge explosion | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
when it fell, and she thought they were bombing them. She lived through | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
the Second World War, but she has never seen anything like this. | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
Mostly eyewitnesses give us few firm clues about what actually happened. | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
Some say they saw fighter jets in the sky, just before the Boeing | :06:40. | :06:41. | |
crashed, imflying that perhaps the rare liner was brought down by the | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
Ukrainian air force. The Ukrainians say this is utter nonsense, the | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
country's head of counter intelligence told us he knew the | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
rebels had got their hands on a powerful Russian missile system, | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
known as Buk, three days before MH17 was shot down. The first information | :07:00. | :07:08. | |
that we got was July 14th, the first intelligence we possessed about the | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
BukM one missile launchers going directly to Ukraine, but we couldn't | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
confirm that information. From Russia? Yes. The terrorists when | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
they find out the remains of the plane and the bodies, the terrorists | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
tried to hide the Buk, all the Buk M 1s that were on the territory in | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
Ukraine. Early in the morning July 18, two Buk M1s trespass illegally | :07:37. | :07:45. | |
again on the Russian border going back to Russia. Two hours later at | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
4.00am one more missile launcher went to Russia. So to your knowledge | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
there are now at the moment in the hands of the rebels or the | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
there are now at the moment in the mercenaries as you call them, there | :08:00. | :08:00. | |
are no such missile systems in their are no such missile systems in their | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
hands? I can't tell they have none. We know three of them went back to | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
Russia. But they might have more? Probably, Russia provides weapons to | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
the rebels on the territory of Ukraine, it is no a Civil War. It is | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
not the rebels, these are mercenaries and terrorists. Are your | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
allies in the west doing enough to support Ukraine? Yes. There is | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
nothing more they can do? They can do more, but they support Ukraine, | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
definitely. In the field of intelligence you are getting the | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
support you need? To some extent. Not quite? Not quite. What more | :08:36. | :08:43. | |
would you like? More intelligence. If indeed pro-Russian rebels with | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
help from Moscow shot down MH17, then why? A possible answer is to be | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
found here in the small town not far from the crash site. Last week a | :08:55. | :09:03. | |
local rebel commander told me the Ukrainian air force bombed this | :09:04. | :09:04. | |
residential block. It was early in Ukrainian air force bombed this | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
the morning, people were at home, some maybe in the bathroom or having | :09:09. | :09:18. | |
their breakfast. 11 people died. TRANSLATION: The air force use | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
civilian aircraft as cover, it is their tactic, they have only just | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
stopped flying over the area, before the crash they did it all the time. | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
He says the rebels don't possess a missile capable of reaching such a | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
height, if they did he says... TRANSLATION: If we knew they weren't | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
civilian we would shoot them. The mystery of how MH17 dropped out of | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
the sky remains locked in claim and counter claim. The investigators now | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
begin their work in earnest, the stakes could hardly be higher. | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
I spoke a little earlier tonight to the Russian oligarch who owns the | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
independent Evening Standard newspapers and the Independent | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
Newspaper, as well as a newspaper in Russia. I asked him how dangerous he | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
considered the current situation to be? It has been compared already by | :10:13. | :10:26. | |
the media to the issues in 1914 that triggered the First World War. And | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
the Prime Minister of Russia compared it to the beginnings of the | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
80s, I think the beginning of the 80s both sides Russia and the west | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
contained each other. The last real war dated back to 1956 in Hungary. | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
If some of the estimates are right, then the loss of life, the | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
casualties in the Ukraine has already counted in thousands rather | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
than hundreds. What should happen next? I think for the time being | :10:57. | :11:03. | |
both sides should probably put aside mutual recriminations and think what | :11:04. | :11:05. | |
can be done to dissolve the situation. I doubt anybody in | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
Moscow, in Washington, Europe or the Ukraine would have any doubts that | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
the situation is so serious, it couldn't be more serious than it is. | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
So we probably are standing at the brink of more hostilities, but for | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
example if western sanctions really are transferred into sectoral and | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
technological break on technology transfer to Russia, and clearly | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
Russia is much more dependant on foreign technology than the Soviet | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
Union used to be. If Europe stopped over a period of say two years to | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
import Russian raw materials there will be a big price to pay for | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
Russia, but also for Europe, and also for the United States. But we | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
know that America has imposed tough sanctions, tomorrow European leaders | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
will meet and be asked to impose tough sanctions. Is it time for | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
tough sanctions on Russia, on Vladimir Putin? I would rather | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
suggest visa versa, for at least some period of time. Because the | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
more sanctions that are being put against Russia the more Russia would | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
probably defend itself in its own way. It is not a right solution. | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
Until recently the sanctions were more lip service, which is putting a | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
threat and expecting that Russia would accommodate anybody. I think | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
it is the wrong approach. Both sides, for some time, until they | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
really understand that they have failed to find a solution and | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
compromise should really put the sanctions and mutual threats and | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
recriminations and other hostile actions on the side, on the shelf. | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
Doesn't Vladimir Putin have to understand that the actions that he | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
has taken in eastern Ukraine are unacceptable and surely the only | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
reason you are saying that sanctions don't work and aren't visible is | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
that you are a -- advisable is that you are a wealthy businessman who | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
still has interests in Russia? Let's put it this way, if you carry on | :12:56. | :13:02. | |
discussions in such a way that Vladimir Putin is responsible for | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
all of that I don't think we can reach any solution at all. So we | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
should probably both sides should accept a completely different | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
attitude. At least for some time the terms should be made. Probably the | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
Kremlin should appoint somebody very influential, but non-hawkish to try | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
to deal with it and Europe and the United States should also try to | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
accommodate Russia the way Russia would like to be seen in the process | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
of negotiations, rather than cornering it. Because the more both | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
sides come up with anomosities the less chances we have -- anomosities | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
the less solutions there will be. Are you saying that we could | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
sleepwalk into war, is that what you are saying, there is a possibility? | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
Of the more building up into much more serious conflict? Yeah, yeah, | :13:55. | :14:03. | |
yeah. If we are right that both sides the separatist and the | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
Ukrainian army and the civilians have lost 10,000 lives, it is war | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
already. If it goes further on I wonder if that can be stopped by | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
anybody of becoming a bigger conflict. Under certain | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
circumstance, I mean I wouldn't probably exclude any events being | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
evolved. For example certain troops crossing certain borders, why not, | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
it is possible, it depends what is going to happen, this is what | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
happened before and this is what it led to, to millions of lives being | :14:35. | :14:42. | |
lost without any reason. Addressing the Commons today ahead | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
of tomorrow's meeting of European leaders, David Cameron said Russia | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
cannot expect access to European markets and capital while it fuels a | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
conflict in Ukraine, and called for future military sales to Russia from | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
any country in Europe to stop. The PM said that we have already stopped | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
such sales from Britain, but, Newsnight has learned that almost | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
300 licenses remain in place permitting the sales of item, | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
including sniper rifles and body armour. The Government says those | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
exports are OK because the weapons are not for military use. But | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
crickets say controls must be tight -- critics say controls must be | :15:21. | :15:27. | |
tightened up. Not since the Cold War have relations between Russia and | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
the west been so strained. The problem for the west is this man, | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
President Putin. Long before the outrage of the downing of flight | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
MH17, the UK had prided itself in leading international condemnation | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
of Mr Putin's Russia. In March the UK announced a ban on any exports of | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
UK equipment to Moscow. The UK with immediate effect will suspend all | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
application licenses and procession of licenses for direct export to | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
Russia for military and dual use items destined for units of the | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
Russian Armed Forces or other state agencies, which could be or are | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
being deployed against Ukraine. It sounds watertight. But Newsnight has | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
discovered this list. It details how Britain is still exporting equipment | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
worth ?132 million, that in the wrong hands could be used for | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
military purposes. Newsnight can reveal 34 witnesses worth nearly ?40 | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
million were suspended or revoked, but another 297 licenses are still | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
life. This is for so called dual use equipment that could have a military | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
or commercial purpose. The list refers to Assault Rifles, body | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
armour and sniper rifles. So, could this end up in their hands? No. The | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
UK Government says this end up in their hands? No. The | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
solely for business use. There is one license that stands out, it | :16:58. | :17:05. | |
includes, among other things... Components or air-launched rockets, | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
components or air-to-air missile, components for surface-to-air | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
missile, components for aircraft canons, components orator paedos. It | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
might sound like a line from a novel, but the Government insists | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
this material is not that use, it is meant for the repairs to the | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
Brazilian Navy. Confused? You won't be alone. MPs are too. In the light | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
of what Mr Putin and Russia have been doing it seems extraordinary we | :17:38. | :17:45. | |
should going on selling to them these things. It is time to stop all | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
licenses for military equipment or dual use equipment to Russia. Once | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
you make that equipment available you have absolutely no control over | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
what it is used, or where it goes, and for all we know, some of that | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
what it is used, or where it goes, equipment might have finished up in | :18:02. | :18:03. | |
the hands of the dissidents or might do so in future. Last week's | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
Farnborough Air Show was a show base for weapons manufacturers, but | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
Newsnight understands a Parliamentary Committee will raise | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
fresh concerns about the trade this Wednesday. Their report will urge | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
ministers to explain, in detail, why Britain is selling military | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
equipment to Russia, which is on a Foreign Office list of human rights | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
abusers. We are relying on trust really? We are relying on trust and | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
trust with dictators, we are relying on Government that is abuse human | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
rights on a daily basis, not the sort of Government West should be | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
doing business with. The Government insist it has never exported | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
missiles or missile parts to the Russian military, and has suspended | :18:46. | :18:53. | |
all licenses for equipment that could be used against the Ukraine. | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
It says the UK aims to operate one of the most robust arms control | :18:59. | :19:04. | |
systems in the world. Joining me now a Russian specialist and fellow at | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
St Anthony's College, and from Washington a former permanent | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
representative to NATO. We're also joined by our economics | :19:14. | :19:16. | |
correspondent, who has been looking at the economicisms available for | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
hitting Putin where it hurts. First of all, what could Europe agree to | :19:22. | :19:32. | |
do tomorrow that will hit Russia tomorrow. They could copy US | :19:33. | :19:41. | |
sanctions, they have banned several large important Russian companies | :19:42. | :19:49. | |
from getting loans in the US. It has an impact and on the perceived | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
investment in Russia. The US is different to the UK in terms of | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
business ties and direct trade, it is more integrated into the Russian | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
economy. Europe has the potential to inflict a lot more economic pain on | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
Russia, but the other side of that it is more painful for Europe to | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
take these sorts of steps. But one investor I was talking to today said | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
many people have the risks wrong. They are perreceiving the risks that | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
Europe puts in place tough sanctions and Russia responds and it hits the | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
European economy. He says the bigger risk is Europe doesn't put the | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
sanctions in, and Russia thinks it has immunity to carry on behaving | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
the way it is. Without sanctions there would be no break on Putin's | :20:37. | :20:43. | |
behaviour? Sanctions are actually resorted to when you don't know what | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
else to do. We are at that point now. How to leverage Putin to | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
deliver on what he said this morning he would do, hold him to his word. | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
He said he would make sure there was a tough investigation and he said he | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
would bring the separatist to the table. So sanctions, but carefully | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
calibrated sanctions might be the way to make it credible as a threat | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
to make him do what he says he will do. Would you accept that the | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
American sanctions put in place quickly might be something that | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
means they actually voted at the UN Security Council for full | :21:19. | :21:20. | |
investigation. It might be those sanctions are working already? | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
Difficult to say. I think they had an interest in showing that they are | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
co-operative in terms of international organisations and | :21:28. | :21:29. | |
international law. So we want to hold them to their own words really. | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
Do you take Duncan's analysis that it is actually tougher in a way for | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
Europe to impose sanctions the same way that America does, because it is | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
going to hit Europe where it won't hit America? Well I take his | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
analysis in both piece which, is yes there is going to be a greater | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
impact on Europe than there is on the United States from the same set | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
of sanction, but also that the impact of Europe on not doing that | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
is also greater than putting in place the sanctions. I think that we | :22:00. | :22:07. | |
have had six months now of Russia fermenting in the Ukraine, they have | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
seen the arms and others across the border and if not provide them | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
directly there are lots of reports of Russian Intelligence Services | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
being in Ukraine already. Putin is not paying attention to our doing | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
nothing. It is important to step forward with tougher sanctions to | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
give the Russians a reason to try to negotiate back from that again. But, | :22:28. | :22:36. | |
of course, for example take Ross Rosnef, 20% is owned by BP, there is | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
a feeling that Europe will not move in the direction that America wants | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
it to move, what is the impact of that? Putin has disregarded the | :22:48. | :22:55. | |
western pleas to stop supporting the violence, he has sent signals to | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
cool temperatures saying we will co-operate with the investigation, | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
we don't have full control over these rebels, we will do our part. | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
In the hopes that Tuesday's meeting of the EU foreign ministers blows | :23:08. | :23:10. | |
past without any significant steps. And meanwhile he will then see that | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
the west is not serious about putting in place any measure that is | :23:15. | :23:17. | |
will hit Russia and therefore continue on the lines of | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
destablising Ukraine and trying to cement Russian influence over these | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
territories. As he has been doing already. We kind of take Crimea as | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
just a matter of fact now, we don't even think about the fact that | :23:31. | :23:38. | |
Crimea might be an infringement on a sovereign state. Isn't there a | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
danger if we don't back up the American sanctions that Putin will | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
feel he can stay in eastern Ukraine? The danger is if sanctions become a | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
strategy of themselves without being hooked into a programme, a road map | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
if you want, of a political kind they will not be effective. You | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
think he wants way out? He wants a way out a political solution to the | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
problem, and he wants to do it around the table with him at the | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
table as well as Ukraine and the EU. Thank you very much indeed. | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
Barack Obama has sent his Secretary of State, John Kerry, to Egypt | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
tonight to try to achieve the UN Security Council call for an | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
immediate cessation of hostilities between Israel and Hamas. Today's | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
violence brought the number of Palestinians killed to more than 500 | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
according to Palestinian official, but Israel has said that seven of | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
its soldiers have been killed in the past 24 hours, bringing the number | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
of Israeli military dead to 25, along with two Israeli civilians who | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
have also died since the ground invasion. A few moments ago I spoke | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
to our international correspondent in Gaza City. | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
Today across the Gaza strip was a day pretty much like every other day | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
since the military escalation began two weeks ago. Despite what Israel | :24:51. | :24:59. | |
has strategic objective, it wants the rockets fired into Israel and | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
destroy the infrastructure of Hamas, but today civilians are paying a | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
heavy price. We went today to a hospital not targeted at a time of | :25:09. | :25:11. | |
war, doctors were killed and patients killed in their bed when | :25:12. | :25:19. | |
tank shells slammed right into the intensive care unit at one of the | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
main hospitals. A building collapsed in central Gaza tonight, at least 11 | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
people are dead. That is why there are urgent calls for a cease-fire. | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
Every would-be mediator you could imagine is in the region. Ban | :25:32. | :25:38. | |
Ki-Moon, Secretary of State, John Kerry has arrived in Cairo. Look | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
across this region and what a troubled region t all the crises, | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
all the taut lines go through Gaza such that when Secretary Kerry sits | :25:47. | :25:48. | |
down to do his work, such that when Secretary Kerry sits | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
take some time, he first has to establish who is doing what? | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
take some time, he first has to about all the mediators from Doha to | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
Istanbul, to Cairo to Washington, none of them have the sway to bring | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
this crisis to an end, who has the most power and who is talking to | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
who? It is a very complicated situation, and all the while the | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
military situation gets worse and so does the humanitarian crisis year. | :26:17. | :26:24. | |
-- here. What are both sides of the conflict. This film contains some | :26:25. | :26:32. | |
distressing it images. Amid the rubble and ever-mounting death toll | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
that is the Gaza conflict, a small snapshot of life endured by its | :26:38. | :26:45. | |
inhabitants. The boy in the green T-shirt has been shot in the hand by | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
a sniper. They discuss how to save them, but then more shots and he | :26:50. | :27:00. | |
dies. The dead toll amongst Gaza's population has been horrific, over | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
500 in recent days. Mostly civilians. If anything casualties | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
have intensified there since Israeli forces advanced into Gaza on | :27:09. | :27:16. | |
Thursday. And yet still Hamas militants keep firing their rockets | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
at Israel, targeting civilian, ignoring calls for a cease-fire. | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
This one was intercepted by an Israeli missile, but over 2,000 have | :27:24. | :27:31. | |
been launched so far. TRANSLATION: We can't go back to the silent death | :27:32. | :27:37. | |
of the blockade, Gaza has decided to end the blockade by its blood and | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
courage, this unjust siege must be lifted. And Israel too is taking | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
casualties, not as many, with 27 to date, all but two of them soldiers. | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
Enough to shock the small country, but so far this military operation | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
appears to have the nation's support. Calls by world leaders for | :27:57. | :28:04. | |
it to stop are not being heeded. The violence must stop, it must stop | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
now. All sides must provide the necessary space to aid the victims | :28:11. | :28:18. | |
and wounded. Gaza is one of the most densely populated pieces of land in | :28:19. | :28:24. | |
the world, almost two million people crammed into 140 square miles. Hence | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
the very high rate of casualties amongst civilian, it is largely | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
blockaded from the outside world. Within the teeming back streets, | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
Hamas still has thousands of rockets, some of them capable of | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
reaching as far as Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. What is upsetting the | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
Israelis are the tunnels, some of them are used for storing weapons, | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
others for tunnelling under the border, to allow Palestinian | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
militants to raid inside Israel. We understand with tens of tunnels that | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
are possibly there, and with the 16 that we have already found, it can | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
take some time. We have the patience to deal with it, we have the man | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
power to deal with it. We have the expertise to deal with it. We have | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
exploded and detonated five of those tunnels today. Israeli troops are | :29:07. | :29:13. | |
locating more of Hamas's secret tunnels every day now. They set | :29:14. | :29:21. | |
charges and blow them up. This is what they came into Gaza to do, at a | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
heavy cost for both sides. But unless Israel plans on permanently | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
reoccupying Gaza, the militants may just dig new ones when the Israelis | :29:33. | :29:39. | |
leave. There is a mounting flurry of diplomatic shuttling between | :29:40. | :29:42. | |
capitals to get the fighting stopped. It now has to be our focus | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
and the focus of the international community to bring about a | :29:47. | :29:49. | |
cease-fire that ends the fighting, and that can stop the deaths of | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
innocent civilians. The US Secretary of State has been lending his | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
weight, so far with limited effec Neither side yet feels it has | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
achieved its objectives. Hamas rejected the cease-fire proposal | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
from Egypt last week, it is pushing for a permanent lifting of the | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
blockade from Gaza. But Hamas is a relatively weakened, isolated force, | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
it has lost a lot of friends and allies around the region, notably | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
Syria and the previous Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. So now it will | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
be looking a way out of this conflict. The Egyptians are not in a | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
strong position to mediate with Hamas because they are seen as part | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
of the problem rather than part of the solution. The Qataris have a | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
potential and the Turk have a potential. But the elephant in the | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
room is Iran, who is supplying Hamas with the arms. This is the worst | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
bout of fighting between Israel and the Palestinian militants of Hamas | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
in five years. Even if and when a cease-fire is agreed, it will only | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
be just that, a cease-fire. Not a lasting peace deal. That prospect | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
now seems further away than ever. Now we can speak to the Deputy | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
Speaker in the Knesset, and a member of Israel's Labour Party. He's in | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
Jerusalem. Here in the studio with me is the Israeli author and | :31:14. | :31:20. | |
academic. First of all, the history of the conflict between Israel and | :31:21. | :31:28. | |
Hamas is that nobody wins. Yet you and it appears the majority of the | :31:29. | :31:34. | |
Israeli people back the ground invasion? It is not natural in the | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
Israeli opposition of the Labour Party to support, to give back | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
support to Prime Minister Netenyahu, but we are supporting him on the | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
ground invasion to Gaza on this whole operation, because Israel came | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
to a point when we don't have a choice. We have a brutal, very, very | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
bad terror organisation that we have to deal with, that shooting | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
thousands of rockets on women and children on the south of Israel and | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
to Tel Aviv and even north of Tel Aviv, and the Israelis deserve to | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
have blue skies free of rockets as any other country in the world. This | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
is why we in the Labour Party, the entire Knesset members, I think, | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
support the Prime Minister, support the IDF, our soldiers, they were | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
killed just night, that going in on an mission to save the lives of the | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
Israeli people, because this is the reality we are having, this is the | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
reality we are having since the establishment of Israel. We are | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
living on our sword with no other chance. If I may a one thing. I just | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
want to bring in our guest here. It is understandable, surely, for | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
Israelis that they want to remove the threat, they want to remove the | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
threat apart from anything else of the tunnels that seem to pop up in | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
kibbutz, and the middle of people's gardens, complete insecurity? This | :32:48. | :32:55. | |
is not understandable to me. Because the conflict between Israel and the | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
Palestinians is at its core a political conflict. There is no | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
military solution to this conflict. So no amount of military force by | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
Israel is going to resolve the conflict. The Israelis tried again | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
and again, it has launched a full scale assault on Gaza in 2008/09, | :33:14. | :33:20. | |
then there was another round of violence in 2012 which ended with a | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
cease-fire. And there is another round of violence. So both sides | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
accuse the other of initiating the violence. The chain of action and | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
reaction is endless. But the underlying calls, the context for | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
the violence is Israeli colonialism and the Israeli occupation of | :33:43. | :33:51. | |
Palestinian territories. So do you see any merit in saying there is an | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
occupation that has to be ended now, that is the only way to end this | :33:55. | :34:02. | |
conflict? By the way I agree that an all-military solution will not bring | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
an end to Hamas. We have to combine both military and diplomatic steps | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
in order to fight with Hamas. But you talked about these tunnel, I'm | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
asking you, hundreds of millions of dollars worth of invested in Gaza by | :34:15. | :34:23. | |
Israel withdrawn from Gaza. 00,000 tonnes of cement was used to build | :34:24. | :34:26. | |
the tunnels instead of building schools and hospitals and buildings | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
for affordable housing in Gaza in order to make Gaza the next Brighton | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
Beach or Monaco, order to make Gaza the next Brighton | :34:37. | :34:38. | |
organisation does not want peace with Israel. There is no equivalence | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
in death, every death is a tragedy. But if you look at this, there is | :34:44. | :34:45. | |
more, But if you look at this, there is | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
authorities, there is more than 500 Palestinians killed, each death | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
regrettable, the same way that each death of an Israeli soldier and | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
civilians are regrettable. If the head of the UN says there has been | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
atrocities, atrocious action does anybody actually listen to Ban | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
Ki-Moon? You know this claim is making me furious, because it is | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
like Israel has to apologise that we don't have as many casualties like | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
the Palestinians, or like Hamas that uses civilians as human shields. In | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
the Middle East, in the crazy zoo of the neighbourhood. Of the Middle | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
East if you are not strong, if Israel is not strong we would not | :35:25. | :35:33. | |
exist. Do you accept that? No I don't. Israel is the | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
fourth-strongest military power in the world. The Palestinians are a | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
negligible threat. They don't pose any threat to Israel's basic | :35:44. | :35:49. | |
security. What is fundamental to this conflict is the asymmetry of | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
power between the two sides. So the Palestinians are the weak party, the | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
vulnerable party, and the trouble with Israel is that it has so much | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
military power and it uses this all the time. Ever since Israel, ever | :36:06. | :36:16. | |
since the occupation began in 1967 Israel has shunned meaningful | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
negotiations with the Palestinians. But if Hamas wants to obliterate | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
Israel, what is Israel to do, if that is Hamas's stated aim, what on | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
earth is Israel to do? Hamas has a terrible charter but it has a group | :36:31. | :36:37. | |
of pragmatic military, pragmatic political leaders who have been | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
moving towards moderation all the time. Is it possible that actually | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
Israel will have to talk to Hamas, Hamas says it doesn't want to talk | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
to Israel, do you think Israel should try to talk to Hamas? Yes, | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
Israel will happily talk to Hamas if they will make a shift and do what | :36:56. | :37:02. | |
the choice was two decades ago, that a military solution is not the | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
solution. Israel not like Hamas or the Palestinians, proved before that | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
when they have partners for peace and are reminded that both Egypt and | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
Jordan were much worse of enemies to Israel than Hamas or the | :37:17. | :37:18. | |
Palestinians, so we are talking to them and giving away territories and | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
we are giving away natural infrastructure, resources, water and | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
if Israel doesn't have something, if natural resources water and | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
territory, which we gave only in order to have peace, so Hamas has to | :37:32. | :37:39. | |
do what others do, and to say we are not fighting and making these | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
struggles through terror, we are talking with the other side and if | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
they will want to make a dialogue with us we will be more than happy | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
to get to the two-state solution, that is the only solution for us. We | :37:51. | :37:53. | |
could continue this debate for loaning time, thank you very much | :37:54. | :37:55. | |
for joining us tonight. Who hasn't heard of Kevin Spay's | :37:56. | :38:04. | |
series of House of Cards, it is a revolution in the broadcasting world | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
changing how TV is consumed and commissioned. Companies like Amazon | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
and Netflix offer TV on demand, no scheduler to tell us what to watch | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
and when to watch it. Because this TV is consumed via the Internet, | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
they are able to harness huge amount of data to tailor content to us. | :38:24. | :38:36. | |
This new way is it just about technology? | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
This is how TV used to work. The A-team have been moved to 6.00, | :38:40. | :38:46. | |
quick schedule an episode of Blankity Blank. TV schedules were | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
planned with military air, commissioners would decide what we | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
would watch and controllers when we got to watch it. But now streaming | :38:56. | :39:03. | |
services like Netflix and Amazon instant video allow viewers to be | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
their own channel controllers. Behind the scenes TV is changing | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
fast, both in the way it is consumed and the way it is commissioned. It | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
gets me to bounce out of day every day to realise I'm at the centre of | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
a revolution, how people are consuming their entertainment at | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
home. Content is still king of TV land, that hasn't changed. House of | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
Cards would be landmark television in any age, but there shall we say, | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
a new Chief Whip in town, driving us towards that content. I almost pity | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
him, he didn't choose to be put on my planet. Leading this revolution | :39:39. | :39:44. | |
is Netflix, based here in Calafornia. They started renting out | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
DVDs through the post and now streaming shows to 50 million | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
customers in more than 40 countries. We were given rare access to their | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
development team. We have a few minutes and that's it. People will | :39:59. | :40:13. | |
give the produce and they have to choose or they will leave. There is | :40:14. | :40:16. | |
positive spin on the challenges faced, the problem isn't people | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
finding too much that they want to watch, or anything, it is a | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
particular challenge in the UK where the Netflix catalogue is thinner | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
than in the US. Nevertheless, it is his job to make sure that every | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
subscriber finds something that grabs them within a few minutes of | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
looking. When you have internet TV, you basically have a direct | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
relationship with the use e you don't throw something -- user, you | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
don't throw something out to the airways and you leave it out there | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
and hope that journals at home, you know what they watched and what time | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
they watched it, the velocity they went from one episode to the next, | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
or if it is a film did they watch the whole thing or punt on it after | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
five minutes. We know what you say you like and what you actually like. | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
We in theed your grant is a violent reveining thriller fan. To process | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
the data coming from the audience, Netflix needs to gather similar | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
information about the show or film. How violent, romantic, funny is it, | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
are there guns or drugs in it, is the ending happy or sat? Male | :41:28. | :41:34. | |
nudity, female nudity, sex, drugs, drinking, smoking. This is the fun | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
stuff. Greg reckons he has pretty much the best job in the world. He's | :41:40. | :41:46. | |
one of 40 Netflix taggers, he watches the show and fills in dozens | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
of data fields about it. Have you watched Newsnight, we have squirm | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
factors! Tagging is not a cricket. I'm not reviewing any of these. Also | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
it is not even about referring good movies or bad to you, you might love | :42:03. | :42:10. | |
bad movies, we will try to match those to you. It is about getting | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
you movies you like. There is no subjectivity there. Like you know, | :42:14. | :42:19. | |
if I hate a movie there is nothing I can do to keep it away from you. If | :42:20. | :42:25. | |
it sounds like your cup of tea, Netflix is now advertising for the | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
first tagger in the UK. No truesers flying through the air? No. The | :42:31. | :42:39. | |
English language doesn't travel across them water so smoothly. I | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
blame Oscar Wilde, if you take a tag like "witty", that is used in the US | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
differently than in the UK. The UK you guys just have a higher barks I | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
blame that on Shakespeare, it is a different use of the word, so | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
someone with those kinds of sensitivites on how you are tagging | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
and labelling titles from a language perspective and having the | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
perspective of someone who is a Brit, that is important to us. It is | :43:05. | :43:26. | |
all three of you, come here, give me a kiss... . It is not just Netflix | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
changing the way TV is made, there are plenty of other companies too. | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
We are at the paramount lot in Hollywood, where they have been | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
making generations of TV programmes. I think it is safe to say nothing | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
quite like this. This is Josh I was telling you about, single and | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
gorgeous. This is Transparent, a comedy family drama produced by | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
Amazon instant video, the pilot was one of ten shows Amazon offered to | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
subscribers who were then asked to pick what they wanted to see more | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
of, Transparent was a clear winner. This was crowdsourced commissioning, | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
the creator, Jill Soloway has a string of writing credits, including | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
Six Feet Under, she says this way of creating TV is a big improvement. We | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
have so little of the typical network interference you would | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
normally see. Normally there would be 15-20 people on the set giving | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
notes on every performance and really giving notes that are related | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
to their fear of what might not work. I think in the old way people | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
would come up with ideas, and the television networks would then take | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
those ideas and bring them to people who sold toilet paper and asked the | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
people who sold toilet paper if they would like to put their toilet paper | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
commercials on to this content. They were making content that they hoped | :44:49. | :44:55. | |
big brands would want to align themselves with. I need to talk to | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
you about something, there is a big change going on. But shows like | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
Transparent are different in another way too. Dealing as it does with the | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
struggles of transgender man coming out to his family, it isn't to | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
everyone's taste, but the on-demand model gives it permission to be | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
hated by most people, as long as some people really love it. In the | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
past channel executives would pursue a mass audience, aiming for a show | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
that lots of people thought was quite good. Today that's useless, in | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
an on-demand environment, no-one will demand that show, that show | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
will go to zero. So you have to look to the passionate audience that | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
usually comes from an artist with a vision. For some one who is like | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
that, you know, it is hard for me to tell them how to create a better | :45:44. | :45:51. | |
expression of their vision. We are still in the very early days of this | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
TV revolution, but it is clear already where it is going. The TV | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
companies will gather and harness as much data as we're comfortable with, | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
in order to tailor content to us. Society in the long run, not this | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
particular year, maybe not next year, but generation over | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
generation, society will get more comfortable with sharing more | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
information at a certain place because that is where t world is | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
going. The world is going towards the information is out there then it | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
can be leveraged to make a better and better experience for people to | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
put the right content in front of them at the right time. Your TV is | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
no longer an idiot box, it is getting smarter all the time. As | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
ever, with the tantalising temptations of the information age, | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
there is a Faustian element to the bargain, revealing more information | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
about ourselves, supply more data, in return for more of the TV we want | :46:47. | :46:54. | |
to watch. That is just about it for tonight. Proms fans will know that | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
we are on day four of 58 and we are getting in on the act too. Every | :47:00. | :47:02. | |
Friday until September we will be bringing you a different preview | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
here on Newsnight. And to throw ahead to our special proms season, | :47:07. | :47:13. | |
here is Alison Ballsom, performing the trumpet concerto with piano | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
accompaniment. | :47:17. | :48:46. |