11/12/2015 Newsnight


11/12/2015

Newsnight is live from the Paris climate change conference as the deadline approaches. Former energy secretary Ed Miliband is live in the studio. With Kirsty Wark.


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Transcript


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After two weeks of talks, and with one deadline already

:00:00.:00:09.

missed, is the clock running out on plans for a comprehensive

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We will be live in Paris for the very latest on talks

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And the former Labour leader Ed Miliband discusses

:00:18.:00:21.

We are doing so well in all the polls. A poll came out two days ago.

:00:22.:00:41.

We are number one. And so it seems, despite this week's

:00:42.:00:45.

hugely controversial call to ban Muslims from entering the US, we'll

:00:46.:00:48.

ask if Donald Trump is unstoppable. Also tonight, the embassy,

:00:49.:00:51.

the Ukrainian militia, Who told us that they had found

:00:52.:01:00.

these paintings in the war zone in some house related to someone a

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friend of the former president. And in Artsnight, a profile

:01:03.:01:04.

of photographer Juergen Teller, whose shots of Kanye West

:01:05.:01:06.

and Kim Kardashian made global They are Americans, and then a

:01:07.:01:16.

good-looking French chateaux, it doesn't look quite right. That is

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why they got married in some nice place in Tuscany. I rather was

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attracted to the sandpit. "Nothing is agreed until everything

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is agreed." The words of the chairman

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of the climate change talks in Paris, the French Foreign

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Minister Laurent Fabius, are still echoing around

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the conference centre tonight way past the official deadline,

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with a new deadline for a deal Tonight he promised the deal

:01:41.:01:43.

could be "a big step forward But money is the major sticking

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point, specifically the level of compensation for poor countries

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to cope with the restrictions required to slow down climate

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change, and the issue of which countries get what money,

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especially with the ambition for a limit of a 1.5% rather

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than 2% temperature increase. Today in Paris, Greenpeace turned

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the Arc de Triomphe into a sermon, using one hopes what are some sort

:02:34.:02:41.

of naturally biodegradable pen. Behind all of the science, much of

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the argument now is a messy fight about money. The question is who

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pays, the developed or the developing world? Carbon emissions

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per person have been falling in the developed economies and 70s.

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Meanwhile, industrialisation has driven them higher in many

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developing economies. That in the late 90s at the time of the Kyoto

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deal, Chinese emissions were well below European levels but rapid

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industrial growth has since pushed them higher. At Copenhagen in 2009

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it was agreed that less developed countries would carry some of the

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burden of producing emissions, but the deal was sweetened with a

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promise that by 2020 $100 billion a year would be made available to

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finance climate change mitigation and adaption. Ultimately there is

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almost certainly going to be a need for much much higher figures. Those

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won't come just from the budgets of developed countries, they will also

:03:36.:03:39.

come from export credit agencies. They will come from multilateral

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development banks, and indeed they will come from the private sector

:03:44.:03:49.

itself that hopefully will be able to see their way towards profitable

:03:50.:03:54.

investment opportunities. Halfway to 2020, and that 100 billion has not

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yet been hit. Bilateral public climate aid from government stood at

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$23 billion last year. Another 20 billion came from multilateral

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organisations like the World Bank, a couple of billion from export

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credits and almost 17 billion from the private sector. The path to 100

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billion is still being debated tonight in Paris. Some countries are

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obviously rich and expected to step up. Others obviously poor and

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expected to benefit, but what about those in between? China and India

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have much larger economies than save the UK but both argue that most

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historical carbon emissions have come from the developed West.

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Advanced economies, they say, must bear a particular burden. And whilst

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India's economy might be three times as large as Britain's income per

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head is just 15% of UK levels. The hot topic in Paris tonight is what

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is being called differentiation, which is basically a fancy way of

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saying should India, China, Brazil and the rest be paying into that 100

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billion target? What they want to make sure is that that isn't coming

:05:01.:05:03.

at the expense of the developed countries need to do. They don't

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want to substitute what developed countries need to do, they want to

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compensated. So they are working on the exact language to work on how

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developed countries need to play their part, and provide a finance

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needed, but we can expect to see from Clement Ric efforts now

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recognised by some of those emerging economies. The night the talks are

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dragging on, there is broad agreement on the cover those in the

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world economy but very little agreement on who will pay for that.

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For those most affected, there really is no plan B.

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The BBC's science editor, David Shukman, is in Paris

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David Shukman, intense horse trading up to the last minute, what is the

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chance, do you think, of some kind of deal by nine o'clock tomorrow

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morning? CHUCKLING I think no chance of that. The

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French have invested a huge amount of political capital in trying to

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crack this. They had hoped to do today but obviously failed, because

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some of the issues that Duncan mentioned are really so difficult,

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and runs so deep is a fault line through this whole process. The idea

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of them coming up with a new draft tomorrow morning is obviously

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welcomed here, but for people who have watched this process over the

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years, they say it is just inconceivable that it can be sorted

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within a fewer hours of that. Many people expect this might well run

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over another day in the Sunday, because the difficulties are so

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immense. I mean, we have heard about some of them, the question of money,

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that is really fraught, but let me give you another one. Running right

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through this process is the idea, the desire among many countries, for

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the text that comes out at the end of this to be legally binding. They

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see that as the only to give the process some teeth. But the word

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legally binding, that phrase, is anathema to the Americans, because

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anything legal might look like a treaty, which they would have to

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take the Congress with a very poor chance indeed of getting it through.

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Another really difficult question is reviewing each country's voluntary

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carbon plans. Under the system operating now, more than 180

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countries have come up with their own voluntary proposals for how they

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would deal with the emissions stop but Britain and others say there has

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to be a review of that. Every five years. China doesn't like that, the

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French have got a deal with that and hope to do it tomorrow.

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With me now in the studio is the former Labour leader

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and the Climate Change Secretary during the Copenhagen talks,

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the last big chance to find a global deal.

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Ed Miliband. Obviously there was huge optimism going into this but

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you have the memory of Copenhagen. If they don't get a deal tomorrow

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morning, which is the cut-off, if they don't get a deal on Sunday than

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it has been too ambitious. It feels like a global version of your kids

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homework crisis, doesn't it? With this last-minute business. But I

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would give some reassurance here, there have been 21 of these

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meetings, they have always gone into injury time, and injury time in the

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injury time. My personal view and I am obviously not there is that they

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will get a deal. From the text I saw this morning, the draft text, it

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will be an ambitious deal. I can't tell you that the certain that my

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sense is that too many countries have come too far. China wants a

:08:29.:08:33.

deal, the United States want a deal, yes, there is lots of difficult

:08:34.:08:38.

issues, in particular developed and developing countries, and if you

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like who bears the responsibility, finance, cutting emissions. Maybe I

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am an optimistic person but I think there probably will be an agreement.

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But the actual permutations should have been sorted out on this

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question of the hundred billion, who pays income who gets out, long

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before the horse trading has been going on surely quietly before they

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reached Paris two weeks ago? I think it is not that the issues weren't

:09:05.:09:07.

known about, it is that the negotiations were always going to go

:09:08.:09:10.

right down to the wire, because that is the way these things are. I wish

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it weren't so. But this is the way these things have always been done.

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I don't want to sound like Pollyanna about this but it is much further on

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than Copenhagen. At this stage, Copenhagen was collapsing around our

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ears and ending up in a 3-page agreement. There are 27 pages or so

:09:27.:09:31.

of text, there are a fuel as far as I can tell outstanding issues.

:09:32.:09:37.

Critical issues. President Obama has rung the Chinese president tonight

:09:38.:09:42.

and is sort of right in there. As I say, I am optimistic. But is this

:09:43.:09:46.

simply about political will, really in the end, or is it about hard

:09:47.:09:52.

cash? I think it is about both. The reason I think there will be a

:09:53.:09:56.

agreement is the political will question is being answered in the

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affirmative by the countries that matter. And there is something quite

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interesting about this agreement, which you mentioned, which is this

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1.5 degrees then. 2 degrees which you mentioned, which is this

:10:08.:10:10.

has been seen as the benchmark but 2 degrees is a dangerous tipping

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point. I think if they can come out with 1.5 degrees as the benchmark

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for this. That will really mark a new beginning. But there is a whole

:10:20.:10:24.

issue as well as to why China and India should be getting any

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compensation. They are a growing industrialised country, why are they

:10:32.:10:35.

going to get money back out? This is the very compensated issue of loss

:10:36.:10:40.

and damage, how Duport countries get compensated for loss and damage done

:10:41.:10:43.

by developed countries? My sense is that China and India are not really

:10:44.:10:46.

asking for cash in this, maybe that is part of it, but in the end this

:10:47.:10:52.

is about the Marshall islands will disappear potentially if we go above

:10:53.:10:57.

1.5 degrees. This is about the most vulnerable countries. And about

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having some magnanimity in this but what there isn't either is

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sanctions. And that I think is a hugely problem because who would

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administer them and who would pay for them? I think that there aren't

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sanctions, I would prefer if there was a tougher regime but you are

:11:14.:11:16.

trying to do something so difficult, and frankly you are pushing the

:11:17.:11:20.

boundaries of political will. Let me say on this legally binding point,

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though, my sense is that there is broad at least implicit agreement

:11:25.:11:29.

that ministers will not be put in jail if they don't meet the targets,

:11:30.:11:32.

right? But the fact that countries have to put forward pledges, the

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first time that has ever happened, and the way they will be monitored,

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adding that will be legally binding. Again, that is a significant step

:11:45.:11:47.

forward from where we were six years ago. I don't have skin in the game,

:11:48.:11:53.

in the sense that I have helped negotiate this agreement but I

:11:54.:11:56.

recognise progress when I see it. If there isn't a deal on Sunday or

:11:57.:12:02.

Monday... It will be very bad. Before we finish, a quick word on

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Stop The War Coalition. The you think our Labour leader should be a

:12:14.:12:20.

member? Honestly that is a matter for him. I am not going to

:12:21.:12:25.

commentate. Jeremy Corbyn has a long-standing association with this

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organisation, he has a long-standing opposition to different types of

:12:31.:12:35.

intervention. If I may say, I think our party's focus should be on

:12:36.:12:39.

taking the fight to the Tories and working out the ideas that will win

:12:40.:12:43.

as the next general election, not Jeremy Corbyn's political

:12:44.:12:44.

engagements. Well, tonight, Jeremy Corbyn

:12:45.:12:49.

was the guest of honour at a Stop the War coalition

:12:50.:12:51.

fundraiser in London. The former chairman of Stop

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the War for four years, until his election as leader

:12:54.:12:55.

of the Labour Party in September, was due formally

:12:56.:12:58.

to hand over tonight. He told the dinner guests that

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"the Stop the War Coalition has been one of the most important democratic

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campaigns of modern times". He had been urged not to attend

:13:04.:13:05.

the dinner by former Labour frontbenchers Caroline Flint

:13:06.:13:08.

and Emma Reynolds, and the Green Party MP

:13:09.:13:09.

Caroline Lucas stepped down as a patron of Stop the War over

:13:10.:13:12.

statements made in response An article was published

:13:13.:13:15.

on its website, which said that France had "reaped the whirlwind"

:13:16.:13:18.

of Western support for extremist Our reporter, Secunder Kermani,

:13:19.:13:21.

has been at the south London restaurant where the event

:13:22.:13:25.

is taking place tonight. What has been going on, set the

:13:26.:13:33.

scene for us. So, Stop the War coalition

:13:34.:13:44.

supporters have been enjoying a three-course Turkish meal

:13:45.:13:47.

in the restaurant behind me. It's the annual Christmas

:13:48.:13:51.

fundraiser, but this year it's caused controversy,

:13:52.:13:59.

because Jeremy Corbyn He had been the chair of this

:14:00.:14:07.

coalition. That's controversial

:14:08.:14:17.

because Stop the War have been heavily criticised for a number

:14:18.:14:20.

of recent articles, including saying Paris attacks were reaping

:14:21.:14:22.

the whirlwind of western policy Now the group took the articles

:14:23.:14:25.

down, they say that doesn't represent their official line,

:14:26.:14:33.

but earlier this week it emerged that Green MP Caroline Lucas had

:14:34.:14:37.

stepped down from a leadership role partly because of

:14:38.:14:41.

what they had said. And there have been calls

:14:42.:14:43.

from a number of Labour MPs for Corbyn to disassociate

:14:44.:14:46.

himself from the group. One Shadow Cabinet member told me

:14:47.:14:48.

he thinks Corbyn should not But his supporters say it's a big

:14:49.:14:50.

smear campaign by the right wing

:14:51.:15:06.

of the Labour Party. Right-wing Labour, helped

:15:07.:15:11.

by the media, has made it divisive. The Stop The War committee was not

:15:12.:15:13.

a controversial organisation at all until a war was begun

:15:14.:15:16.

in England against Jeremy Corbyn. A war waged by the media,

:15:17.:15:20.

waged by the BBC and waged by the right wing

:15:21.:15:22.

of the Labour Party. So, when you have people

:15:23.:15:24.

like Caroline Lucas, reconsidering their position

:15:25.:15:28.

with Stop the War, doesn't it make It has nothing to do

:15:29.:15:31.

with the committee. I think the Greens may well be

:15:32.:15:37.

worried that Corbyn is winning a lot Nothing to do with the controversial

:15:38.:15:41.

statements that are being affiliated There have been no controversial

:15:42.:15:44.

statements made by Stop the War Now, some of the criticism of Corbyn

:15:45.:15:50.

comes from other figures But it's also fair to say a lot

:15:51.:16:03.

of this boils down to fears in the right wing of Labour that

:16:04.:16:09.

groups like Stop the War, which have a strong socialist

:16:10.:16:12.

worker party presence, for example, are entering

:16:13.:16:14.

into and changing the direction Corbyn's supporters might say he has

:16:15.:16:17.

a huge mandate for the political and that comes because of,

:16:18.:16:30.

not in spite of, his links to groups It must have been pretty devastating

:16:31.:16:36.

for a regional museum in north west Holland when, 11 years ago,

:16:37.:16:42.

an art heist denuded its walls of 24 Dutch Golden Age paintings,

:16:43.:16:45.

which disappeared into thin air. But it must have been just

:16:46.:16:48.

as astonishing when two representatives of a right wing

:16:49.:16:50.

Ukrainian militia turned up at the Dutch Embassy in Kiev,

:16:51.:16:52.

demanding 50 million euros Gabriel Gatehouse has been delving

:16:53.:16:55.

into a murky world where art theft and Eastern European

:16:56.:17:01.

politics collide. They are getting ready for Christmas

:17:02.:17:08.

in the little town of Hoorn. In the 17th century, this

:17:09.:17:12.

was a place of wealthy merchants. These days, Hoorn gets

:17:13.:17:15.

by on the memories of that golden age, the architecture,

:17:16.:17:18.

the artefacts, the paintings. A decade ago, art thieves broke

:17:19.:17:26.

into the local museum. They came at night,

:17:27.:17:29.

locking themselves inside. They made off with 70 pieces

:17:30.:17:33.

of antique silverware So, they took out all the paintings

:17:34.:17:36.

out of their frames Since we have not heard

:17:37.:17:43.

of the collection for over ten years, we believe it

:17:44.:17:50.

is very well prepared. Probably the thieves did not know

:17:51.:17:54.

what they were stealing. This is not the Rijksmuseum

:17:55.:18:00.

and these are not Rembrandts. The theft at the time hardly made

:18:01.:18:04.

waves outside of the local newspapers because they were by

:18:05.:18:07.

lesser-known artists, contemporaries of the old Dutch

:18:08.:18:10.

masters but not quite the real deal. But then, out of

:18:11.:18:14.

the blue, came news. We were very happy because it was

:18:15.:18:17.

the first sign of life about our paintings but then,

:18:18.:18:26.

when we heard they were in the Ukraine, we immediately thought,

:18:27.:18:31.

well, this is making things not Not a lot easier

:18:32.:18:37.

is an understatement. Dutch officials were approached

:18:38.:18:41.

by a commander from The paintings had been

:18:42.:18:48.

found, they were told, while fighting

:18:49.:18:53.

pro-Russian separatists. The museum approached

:18:54.:18:57.

an art investigator, who travelled to Kiev

:18:58.:19:00.

to meet the commander. He told us his soldiers had found

:19:01.:19:07.

these paintings in a war zone and somehow related to somebody

:19:08.:19:10.

befriended to the former president, The Ukrainians sent

:19:11.:19:16.

through a photograph of one of the paintings with a copy

:19:17.:19:22.

of that day's newspaper, So, Arthur Brand started

:19:23.:19:25.

secret negotiations. Newsnight has seen some

:19:26.:19:31.

of the correspondence. The paintings might be returned,

:19:32.:19:33.

the commander suggested, They talked about a finder's

:19:34.:19:36.

fee, 10% of the value. The trouble was the Ukrainians had

:19:37.:19:42.

fastly overestimated the artworks. Well, I could prove to them these

:19:43.:19:49.

paintings were not worth more I showed them auction results

:19:50.:19:52.

of similar paintings Boris said, "Well, my soldiers

:19:53.:19:57.

will not accept this." The other time he said,

:19:58.:20:04.

"The people who have sent me When news reached the museum

:20:05.:20:08.

that the pictures were being offered for sale elsewhere, they feared that

:20:09.:20:20.

time was running out. We asked our BBC colleagues in Kiev

:20:21.:20:23.

to track down Boris. He never asked for 5 million euros,

:20:24.:20:33.

he has never even seen TRANSLATION: I do not have to wait

:20:34.:20:38.

contact with the people who allegedly found this collection,

:20:39.:20:49.

I never did. I only had one way

:20:50.:20:52.

contact with them. When I tried to call them back,

:20:53.:20:56.

the numbers do not exist. The museum says there's a web

:20:57.:21:00.

of influential figures Apart from Boris,

:21:01.:21:02.

the commander, they have named a former head of Ukrainian

:21:03.:21:06.

intelligence and the leader If you take the murky world

:21:07.:21:10.

of international art theft and mix it with the chaos of the conflict

:21:11.:21:19.

in eastern Ukraine, what you end up with frankly is not

:21:20.:21:23.

a huge amount of clarity. I have seen documents that show

:21:24.:21:27.

that the Dutch authorities are taking these allegations

:21:28.:21:30.

of high-level involvement by politicians and intelligence

:21:31.:21:33.

agencies in Ukraine Sleepy Hoorn now finds

:21:34.:21:36.

itself in the eye of Next year the Netherlands will hold

:21:37.:21:44.

a referendum on whether Ukraine should be closer

:21:45.:21:49.

integrated into the EU. Conspiracy theorists are muttering,

:21:50.:21:53.

could this whole scandal be a Russian plot to

:21:54.:21:55.

scupper their chances? Meanwhile, the local museum just

:21:56.:22:00.

wants its paintings back. Hoorn and this region played

:22:01.:22:05.

a major part in the rise of the Dutch Republic

:22:06.:22:07.

in the 17th century. It was a harbour town and,

:22:08.:22:15.

through trade, people We tell this story

:22:16.:22:17.

and these 24 paintings, We miss them every day

:22:18.:22:23.

because they tell such important Even in Trump terms,

:22:24.:22:31.

it's been quite a week for the billionaire real estate

:22:32.:22:42.

mogul who wants to be the Republican

:22:43.:22:44.

presidential candidate. A man who loves a headline,

:22:45.:22:46.

it seems any headline, he made plenty of them with his call

:22:47.:22:49.

to ban Muslims entering America, and now according to Democratic

:22:50.:22:55.

presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, he is no longer

:22:56.:22:56.

funny, but dangerous. And today our Ambassador

:22:57.:23:01.

in Washington slapped him down too, denouncing Trump's assertion

:23:02.:23:04.

that the UK was disguising a massive Muslim problem, and that there

:23:05.:23:07.

were police no-go areas in London. But the latest CBS poll,

:23:08.:23:13.

taken before his anti-Muslim tirade, among Republican voters

:23:14.:23:17.

he is the man to beat, To discuss all of this, we have

:23:18.:23:21.

from Washington Mark Krikorian, of the Conservative Center

:23:22.:23:31.

for Immigration Studies, and from New York,

:23:32.:23:33.

Catherine Rampell, columnist Good evening to you both. Mark,

:23:34.:23:45.

first of all, why do you think Donald Trump gets such traction for

:23:46.:23:51.

his ban on Muslims entering the United States? Well, in general, he

:23:52.:23:59.

gets a lot of traction because of the broad and deep contempt that

:24:00.:24:05.

much of the public holds all believe in. A lot of the attacks, whatever

:24:06.:24:10.

they are attacking him about actually strengthen him because the

:24:11.:24:15.

people attacking him have been utterly failed in their

:24:16.:24:20.

responsibilities as a political and business elite so they have no

:24:21.:24:23.

credibility, specifically on the Muslim issue. Obviously the

:24:24.:24:31.

terrorist attack in California made that salient but our political

:24:32.:24:38.

leaders have refused to address the issues raised by radical Islam. The

:24:39.:24:42.

president will not even call radical Islam by its name and so that simply

:24:43.:24:48.

opens up the kind of opportunity for somebody like Trump, who presents

:24:49.:24:53.

himself as a straight talker and all of this, regardless of how clumsy

:24:54.:24:57.

and corsee years when he talks about this stuff, he is the only one

:24:58.:25:02.

addressing people's concerns and so he is the one who attracts a lot of

:25:03.:25:10.

people's support. Does Mark have a point about elites? What he

:25:11.:25:14.

represents is somebody who is not part of the elite when so much

:25:15.:25:19.

American politics is seen as being a caucus in Washington? It is true and

:25:20.:25:27.

it is not true. He is a billionaire. It is hard to get more elite than

:25:28.:25:32.

that. He is very influential. Here's a reality TV star. If you are

:25:33.:25:36.

talking about the incumbents in Washington, yes committee presents

:25:37.:25:39.

himself very much as an outsider and he is an outsider in that respect.

:25:40.:25:45.

Americans are upset and, to some extent, rightfully so about economic

:25:46.:25:49.

stagnation and other economic anxieties. Here's not really

:25:50.:25:54.

addressing those. I am interested what you are saying about him being

:25:55.:25:59.

a billionaire. He is not beholden to anyone. No one is holding him back.

:26:00.:26:08.

That is his argument. Americans believe that our current political

:26:09.:26:11.

incumbents in the Republican and Democratic parties who are not

:26:12.:26:16.

looking out for their interests, only in the interests of people and

:26:17.:26:20.

corporations that give the money. I understand that Donald Trump is

:26:21.:26:24.

quite appealing because he claims he is self-funded. He is not entirely

:26:25.:26:29.

self-funded. For the most part here is independently wealthy and it is

:26:30.:26:35.

not focus groups or particularly advised by outside experts. Is that

:26:36.:26:40.

because Washington does not by and large address these are people who

:26:41.:26:48.

are not in the Beltway, who are in far-flung states who do not

:26:49.:26:51.

understand what these people are talking about right now? A lot of

:26:52.:26:55.

people are talking that lack of jobs and problems with the economy.

:26:56.:27:01.

Donald Trump taps into that. Coming, Mark. It is more than just an

:27:02.:27:08.

economic issue. You're right that he has not actually... He has talked

:27:09.:27:13.

about economic issues, that is the core thing. What he represents in a

:27:14.:27:19.

crude way is, he is a nationalist. What he is saying I think he is

:27:20.:27:23.

correct despite all of his other floors, much of our elite has become

:27:24.:27:30.

post-American. They're not that interested in the interests and

:27:31.:27:34.

problems and concerns and fears of regular folks and making sure that

:27:35.:27:38.

Americans are the ones who basically win if there is some kind...

:27:39.:27:49.

Comeback on that. I just want to say, he is certainly appealing to

:27:50.:27:57.

Americans anxieties. Whether he is offering policy solutions, I am very

:27:58.:28:03.

doubtful. A lot of his solutions seem to be scapegoating various

:28:04.:28:07.

minorities. Is he actually what Hillary Clinton said, before he was

:28:08.:28:15.

dismissed as being funny but now, Hillary Clinton says he is actually

:28:16.:28:20.

dangerous. What you think about that? That is silly. I am no fan of

:28:21.:28:25.

the guy that the idea he is dangerous is absurd that the these

:28:26.:28:30.

dangers to anybody, he is dangerous to the political cartel both parties

:28:31.:28:34.

have in running the country. In that sense, he is a threat to them. The

:28:35.:28:41.

idea that he is a budding Mussolini or something is rather laughable. It

:28:42.:28:45.

is the hyperbole that helps people and his own supporters are more

:28:46.:28:50.

likely to support him when he is attacked by people. That is indeed

:28:51.:28:55.

what the Republican inner circle has really got to worry about. If they

:28:56.:28:59.

attacked him too much, then perhaps he comes out fighting. There are

:29:00.:29:04.

moves, are there not, to try to shut him down. There are moves afoot to

:29:05.:29:10.

try to curb Donald Trump. What do you know about that? He is very

:29:11.:29:16.

divisive, even in the Republican party. He has a solid core of

:29:17.:29:24.

support amongst an unhappy populous. An anxious group, economically and

:29:25.:29:28.

otherwise anxious group. He is certainly playing to that crowd.

:29:29.:29:33.

There are a lot of Republicans, more moderate and otherwise, who are very

:29:34.:29:38.

turned off by his rhetoric, by his tone, by the fact he has been

:29:39.:29:43.

scapegoating again, not just Muslims but Mexicans in China and immigrants

:29:44.:29:48.

at large. There are a lot of people who were disturbed by the fact he

:29:49.:29:53.

could actually... If you were Republican, he could turn all

:29:54.:29:57.

publicans away from the Republican Party and he became a nominee, they

:29:58.:30:01.

would turn to Hillary. This week, Tate Modern's Chris

:30:02.:30:05.

Dercon profiles Juergen Teller, whose images of the rich and famous

:30:06.:30:08.

over the past three decades have And we should say there is some

:30:09.:30:11.

strong language in this programme. In the 1990s, Juergen Teller's shots

:30:12.:30:25.

for the music and fashion industries

:30:26.:30:29.

Newsnight is live from the Paris climate change conference as the deadline approaches. Former energy secretary Ed Miliband is live in the studio. Should Jeremy Corbyn distance himself from Stop the War? And is Donald Trump unstoppable? With Kirsty Wark.


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