15/12/2015 Newsnight


15/12/2015

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis.


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Transcript


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Tonight, we talk to the man who organised it.

:00:00.:00:20.

Suffering from the cold and hot weathers and bad nights and the

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people here who don't like us because we make a lot of mess here.

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We have got to go and walk, and see what Europe can do for us.

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We'll also be focussing on the cause - the war in Syria,

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hearing from the man in charge of the US-led coalition.

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We have really never seen anything like this before so it is a global

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fight, it is a threat to everyone, and something we need a global

:00:52.:00:53.

coalition to confront. As he continues to dominate

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the polls, Donald Trump's They are talking about Mexican

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rapists. FROM AUDIENCE: They're

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talking about the wall! They can only win...

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They're talking about the wall. I love the idea of the

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Great Wall of Trump. The polemicist Ann Coulter explains

:01:14.:01:16.

the Trump phenomenon. We've got an official astronaut

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in space, at last. Newsnight looks back at the lost

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history of the British Europe is keen to end the year

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repairing its vision of a continent In the face of a migration crisis

:01:25.:01:39.

and security concerns, It is to bolster

:01:40.:01:45.

the external border. Or to put it another way,

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it's about helping Greece and Italy cope with those arriving

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on their shores with a new European Border

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and Coast Guard. It will replace the Frontex agency

:01:56.:01:58.

which is actually only Well, as the year draws to a close,

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this programme is looking at the migration issue by catching

:02:01.:02:06.

up on some of the characters whose images were beamed around

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the continent this summer. In the second of our series -

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the faces of the migrant crisis - Katie Razzall meets the man behind

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an event which proved a turning point in how the migrants

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were perceived and received. It was the moment that changed the

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course of the refugee crisis. When was this photo taken? In a train

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station when I was explaining to people what we have to do and how we

:02:57.:03:02.

will walk. That's you? Yes, that's me. When Muhammad led a column of

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refugees on a march across Hungary, the pictures helps define the scale

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of the crisis facing Europe. At the start of September, with Hungary

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cracking down on migrants, thousands were corralled for days in

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Budapest's main train station. I get this plant that we have got to walk,

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no one can stop us. I told them, don't be afraid, we can do a break,

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walk today for eight hours, tomorrow eight hours, and stop every time we

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are feeling tired. We have got to walk and we have got to not do any

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mess. The Hungarian people will give us a lot of food and water and

:03:52.:03:55.

everything, and the most important thing is that we don't mess the

:03:56.:04:02.

place or the town or the street. Why did you think that? Because with the

:04:03.:04:09.

cameras shooting us, the European people will see that we are walking

:04:10.:04:15.

and we are doing mess. They say, these people are not good, every

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time they eat they throw the things in the street and it is not

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acceptable. Ever strategic, he invited TV crews to join his march.

:04:25.:04:32.

I think the police or the Government cannot hurt us because we will be

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shot on the TV. You knew about the power of television to protect you.

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Yes, when I was at the train station I requested three channels, they

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said, OK we will go with you. This was just days after the Syrian boy

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washed up on a beach. The migrants' plight was making headlines. Even at

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night, when negotiating the arrival of bosses, Mohammed made sure the

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camera was there. I said to them don't be afraid, I am going to send

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with you a cameraman and I will send with you also one guy, he will have

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a car and he will follow you. Clearly a natural organiser,

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Mohammed is still leading. Another march to take asylum seekers to the

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local gym for a kickabout. A Syrian who used to work in Dubai and found

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he couldn't go back home when the war started, Mohammed is now in

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Germany. You were all over the newspapers and

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the television in September with that march, then you disappeared

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like everyone else to start your new life. What is your new life like?

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Sometimes I am walking in the street, I don't feel like I am in

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Germany, it is like a dream. The place is very nice, the people are

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very kind. There have been demonstrations against refugees,

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haven't there? Yes, it is happening, but it is just small people,

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walking. Me and my friend here, they organised the walk also on Saturday.

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It is with refugees. And do you think Germany, at some point, will

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have to say we cannot have any more refugees? I think they will not say

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this. Why not? I think in Germany they need more people because there

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is a lot of people here who are really old, and maybe after ten

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years, 20 years, a lot of houses will be empty. Germany also wants

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people to work so I think they want more people, they want good people.

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If you look back to your childhood, as a child would you ever have

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thought I'm going to go to Germany? Did you know about Germany? When I

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was a kid, I like to come to Germany because I love cars. I really like

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BMW and Mercedes. Lots of people in Britain look at pictures of young

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men coming from Syria as refugees fleeing war, and they say your

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country is at war, you should be fighting for your country, you

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should be there fighting. What would you say to that? Actually you have

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got to ask this question, it is correct to ask this question, but

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the answer is you don't know which one is fighting for the good. If

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something is coming from other countries, like for example other

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countries want to come to Syria and take Syria, and they want to kill

:07:57.:08:02.

people there, we won't go out of Syria and we will fight for our

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country. So you would have fought against another country invading?

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Yes, but when you don't know what is the good things and bad things,

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better to go. There, they are just killing each other. They will go to

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the army and they will send me to kill my brother or my uncle, this is

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not acceptable. This is why people go out of Syria, they are running

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away from the Army. What do you think about other countries like

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Britain bombing Syria? I agree with this, and this is the solution for

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them. Because the people who stay in Syria, they are very weak. It is a

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good thing that the Europeans start to do Army or such things for them.

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You see yourself as staying in Germany for your whole life? I think

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I would like to stay here in Germany. I would like to build my

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future here. Working, having a house, getting married. Spending my

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life here. I think this is a good place to build my future, it is a

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good country and everything here is good. And what does he think of his

:09:21.:09:29.

role in this historic moment in the refugee crisis?

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Do you think you will ever do something like that again in your

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life? I think no, it is only once in my life and I am going to tell this

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to my children when I have a family, and they will be proud of this.

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And you can see the third film in that series tomorrow.

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From the consequences of a migration crisis,

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The man in effective charge of the American led coalition

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fighting so-called Islamic State is President Obama's Special Envoy

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He's been in post less than two months, but was in London today.

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A good chance to take stock on the war.

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In many ways this is different than anything we've faced before.

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30,000 foreign fighters from all around the world.

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100 countries of the world, coming into Syria.

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We have really never seen anything like this before.

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And it is something we need a global coalition to confront.

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Just characterise the enemy for me, if you would.

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Do you see them as rational in any way, in their own terms?

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There is no question about their overall ideology.

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There is no question about, as we see them on the ground,

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in terms of the number of suicide bombers even in just daily

:10:53.:10:55.

engagements, sometimes ten to 12 suicide bombers in

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We have had in Iraq sometimes 60 suicide bombers in a single month.

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All the suicide bombers we assess are foreign fighters,

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so they're coming from all around the world.

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So people like this cannot be reasoned with and that is why

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we are determined, as the president said, to destroy Isil.

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Do they have, what is your best guess, do they have much support

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on the ground among the population over whom, whose territory

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So Ramadi, Isil pretended to be the defenders of the people

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Eventually, when they really took over Ramadi back in May,

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they cleansed the city of anyone that disagreed with them.

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They tried to impose their doctrinaire, eighth

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And now in Ramadi as Iraqi security forces have been

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on the counterattack for two months and as Daesh is focused on the core

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centre of the city, they have blown the last bridge,

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basically isolating themselves in the centre of the city

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and eventually the Iraqi security forces are confident,

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it will take some time, we'll clear them from the centre of Ramadi.

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But importantly, the fighters in Ramadi, based on our information,

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you have Chechens, you have people speaking Russian,

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you have Egyptians, you have foreign fighters from all around the world.

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Holding human shields, the citizens of Ramadi,

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So any notion that this barbaric terrorist group was serving some

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sort of legitimate end has really been revealed as a total lie.

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So the objective is clear, it is to degrade and destroy Isis,

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it is not to contain or to contain and degrade,

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it has absolutely moved to destroying them.

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Everybody says, in order to achieve that goal,

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there has to be a ground force at some point.

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And the great mystery of this war has been who's

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Can you throw any light on who it is going to be that

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Well, it's different forces in different parts.

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Let me go around the Horn, I will go clockwise.

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So if you just take Syria and Iraq and the core, again this is not

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just about the core, it is the networks and affiliates.

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But it really is the core that we have to focus on,

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To the west of the Euphrates River there is about a 98 kilometre strip

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of border which Daesh still controls, with Turkey.

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We are working that very aggressively with the Turks

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And also with a group of Sunni opposition forces near the town

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of Mara, which we call the Mara line, to begin pushing

:13:25.:13:27.

But I will say the Russian air campaign has made

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The Russians say they are attacking Daesh, and they are in some

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respects, but they're also attacking moderate opposition forces

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So the Russians have made that particular terrain a little

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So in that part, Sunni Arab opposition forces.

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East of the Euphrates, the entire border region with Turkey

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It is Syrian Kurds and also increasingly Arabs and Christians,

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which we are prepared to work with to push down and isolate Raqqa.

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Those forces are actually having some real success.

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Over to the east near the Iraqi border they have now cleared

:13:58.:13:59.

an operation in just the last three weeks,

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1000 square kilometres of very critical terrain.

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We hope to continue and advance this process and eventually begin to

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de-escalate the conflict between the opposition and the regime. 70,000

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would-be above your own estimate? I think it is with -- within our own

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estimate. We cannot get to a ceasefire unless we have a very

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credible political process, but that will free up an awful lot of force

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to focus on extremist groups. Special envoy Brett McGurk, thank

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you. The last official inflation figure

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to be published this year was released this morning,

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and continued the extraordinary pattern that's been

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with us through 2015. Not deflation, but not

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really inflation either. This year of no-flation

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is another of those massive To think that two years ago,

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Bank of England economists were expecting inflation now

:15:32.:15:35.

to be at the target 2%. We'll be looking back and looking

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ahead with two commentators in a moment, but first

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think about this year. As a measure of what a special year

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this has been, just have a look That flat bit at the end,

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that's inflation This is how far you have to go back

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to get to a comparable period. Yes, all the way back to 1960,

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when Harold Macmillan was Prime Minister, so long ago

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no-one had even heard Now there is another way this year

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has been interesting. 2015 saw the end of the long great

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squeeze. Post-crash, we've had the longest

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fall in average wages that Inflation - the red line,

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was above pay rises - the blue one, leaving

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ordinary people worse off. Years in which companies have had it

:16:45.:16:51.

easy, profits have been high and workers have

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suffered, has shifted. Not from higher wages note,

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but from lower inflation. Well, inflation probably can't

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stay as low as it is, as oil prices can't

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keep falling as much as they have. tomorrow and we could follow

:17:17.:17:19.

in the next 18 months. New hazards may come along,

:17:20.:17:24.

but at least at last, we've had the first proper

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respite since the crash. Well, joining me now to chew over

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all of this are George Magnus, the economist and writer,

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and Rain Newton-Smith who is the head of

:17:36.:17:37.

economics for the CBI. Welcome. George, this year is

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interesting, did you see it coming. The has has performed this year was

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pretty double. -- predictable. The alp turned is not bad. -- out turn.

:18:00.:18:09.

Low inflation also was not a surprise, what we did not see was a

:18:10.:18:13.

further drop in oil prices which has just begun. The scorecard for the

:18:14.:18:20.

year probably better than you could have hoped for. Rain, has it been

:18:21.:18:28.

OK, for business, our businesses seeing profits squeezed with low

:18:29.:18:33.

prices or do they love the low oil prices. If you talk to businesses as

:18:34.:18:39.

a whole they see the UK as one of the bright lights in the global

:18:40.:18:43.

economy this year and in the next couple of years, driven by the twin

:18:44.:18:47.

engines of consumption and investment. One of the things that

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struck me talking to businesses for the past six months is how resilient

:18:52.:18:58.

the recovery is. It is more related to the sector you're in how you feel

:18:59.:19:02.

about that and party that is how oil prices affect businesses and the

:19:03.:19:09.

exchange rate. Living standards were a big thing this year, years of

:19:10.:19:13.

unpleasantness for working households on average, that turned.

:19:14.:19:22.

Can that continue. Of course economic slipknot known as the

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dismal science for nothing. It would be churlish not to sound a little

:19:25.:19:31.

note of caution for the year ahead. Everyone has their own favourite

:19:32.:19:35.

issues they worry about. The three things I worry about in the UK,

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productivity, which has started to turn after years of terrible

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performance. The hourly output. Exactly. The efficiency of labour.

:19:46.:19:52.

We have got to be, we hopefully can be confident that will keep going.

:19:53.:19:57.

If not then the real incomes you pointed out in your package will

:19:58.:20:02.

start to go in the other direction. Secondly is investment, although

:20:03.:20:07.

that has picked up, the rate of investment in the UK is still many

:20:08.:20:11.

percentage points of GDP lower than ten or 15 years ago. And third, the

:20:12.:20:17.

corrosive impact of inter-generational inequality. The

:20:18.:20:22.

difference between the way in which older citizens have made out during

:20:23.:20:26.

the last few years and younger people. Young people really in terms

:20:27.:20:32.

of income, housing, affordability, education, they have been screwed.

:20:33.:20:38.

That is a terrible condition, it is corrosive. I think it should be a

:20:39.:20:46.

big issue for the government. Do you agree with that. I think over the

:20:47.:20:52.

longer term there is a concern about some intergenerational shifts we're

:20:53.:20:59.

seeing at the moment. In a way the key to improved living standards in

:21:00.:21:04.

the long term is productivity as George said. On that we are seeing

:21:05.:21:08.

encouraging signs, economists have got it wrong before so we do need to

:21:09.:21:14.

have some humility. But I think we expect business investment to

:21:15.:21:16.

contribute around one third of growth in the next couple of years

:21:17.:21:20.

and that should help productivity now and in the future. And there was

:21:21.:21:24.

room for upward expansion in productivity, it is an opportunity

:21:25.:21:30.

as well as a problem. Well we can ask where this goes now because

:21:31.:21:36.

interest rate, tomorrow the US will make the decision. Expect patient is

:21:37.:21:41.

they will move. What do you expect for the UK. Things have changed a

:21:42.:21:49.

lot. Mark Carney said earlier this year he thought the situation would

:21:50.:21:54.

become clear by the end of the year and he said today it is not clear!

:21:55.:21:59.

So the consensus seems to be interest rates in the UK will not

:22:00.:22:06.

move until the end of 2016 or even to those on they may go earlier, by

:22:07.:22:11.

the middle of the year I think we will have the first rise in rates.

:22:12.:22:17.

Well we are at the point at which there is no inflation. We do not

:22:18.:22:24.

want to make the mistake of looking at inflation now and making a

:22:25.:22:27.

decision on policy based on that, we need to look to the future and when

:22:28.:22:30.

we talk to businesses they speak about skill shortages and how

:22:31.:22:35.

difficult it is to find the right people to expand their business. I

:22:36.:22:42.

think that is why all eyes are on the labour market and whether we

:22:43.:22:45.

could see page picking up more strongly than expected. What is the

:22:46.:22:51.

CBI predicting for growth next year. 2.5%. Sort of average. It is a lot

:22:52.:23:00.

of consensus around the UK economy but there is a lot of fragility as

:23:01.:23:05.

well and concerns around some global risks. But also whether some

:23:06.:23:10.

headwinds could have more of an impact on investment than we

:23:11.:23:11.

currently expect. In less than two hours,

:23:12.:23:14.

Donald Trump will take part in the latest US Republican

:23:15.:23:16.

Presidential TV debate in Las Vegas. Other candidates will of course be

:23:17.:23:19.

there, but in truth, the debate in the Republican party

:23:20.:23:22.

is mainly about Mr Trump. He continues to flourish

:23:23.:23:25.

in the polls, notwithstanding his controversial proposal that foreign

:23:26.:23:28.

Muslims should be barred He is not the bookies' favourite

:23:29.:23:30.

to be next president, One of his supporters, possibly even

:23:31.:23:35.

one of his inspirations, is the right wing polemicist

:23:36.:23:41.

and best-selling author Ann Coulter. She introduced Trump,

:23:42.:23:43.

and praised his stance on immigration, at a campaign

:23:44.:23:46.

rally in Iowa in August. Since Donald Trump has announced

:23:47.:23:50.

he's running for president, I can't believe I turn on TV,

:23:51.:23:54.

he's on prime time TV every night about anchor babies,

:23:55.:24:00.

they're talking about sanctuary cities, they're talking

:24:01.:24:03.

about Mexican rapists. FROM AUDIENCE: They're

:24:04.:24:06.

talking about the wall! They can only win...

:24:07.:24:08.

They're talking about the wall. I love the idea of the

:24:09.:24:11.

Great Wall of Trump. Well, Ann Coulter joins

:24:12.:24:18.

us now from Las Vegas, where that debate

:24:19.:24:20.

is soon to be held. Is it correct that Donald Trump took

:24:21.:24:26.

some inspiration from you, Is it correct that Donald Trump took

:24:27.:24:33.

talked about Mexican rapists before he talked about them. I have tried

:24:34.:24:40.

to push the immigration issue on a lot of Republican candidates. A few

:24:41.:24:45.

in particular I had long conversations with. And sent

:24:46.:24:51.

advanced copies of my book adios America too. Donald Trump saw me in

:24:52.:24:57.

an interview one week before my book came out, I was on the way to the

:24:58.:25:03.

airport in Miami and got an e-mail from him asking for an advanced copy

:25:04.:25:09.

of my book. My book has a lot of startling facts in it and is

:25:10.:25:14.

carefully documented. I think it is the first time there was a lot of

:25:15.:25:17.

discussion about a lot of the criminal cultures and launched my

:25:18.:25:21.

country and the country just has no unity to that. -- immunity. We are

:25:22.:25:29.

used to criminals being dumb and living there DNA all over the place.

:25:30.:25:34.

A lot of people come into the country have a lot of criminal

:25:35.:25:38.

habits, massive insurance frauds, and we have no immunity to that.

:25:39.:25:45.

Have you had contact with European counterparts who think in a similar

:25:46.:25:48.

way to you, the National front in France for example, are you talking

:25:49.:25:52.

to these guys or in completely separate worlds. I guess I wish you

:25:53.:26:00.

the best, I used to like to go on vacation there but I am American and

:26:01.:26:04.

care about America. As we are finding out, so do a lot of

:26:05.:26:11.

Americans. I want to talk to the language and tone of the campaign.

:26:12.:26:15.

You have used words referring to Muslims or people of Arab descent,

:26:16.:26:21.

rag headed camel jockey, is that right. It was a joke and a funny

:26:22.:26:29.

joke and people did laugh. You have to give the full context of my

:26:30.:26:32.

remarks. It is interesting, Donald Trump I do not think is used these

:26:33.:26:38.

kind of terms. He has steered clear, why do you think he does not use

:26:39.:26:45.

that language? I think you're wrong, I think we used similar language and

:26:46.:26:48.

get attacked in the same way which is completely lifting little

:26:49.:26:55.

snippets out and acting as if it was said with earnest anger which is why

:26:56.:27:00.

two weeks after Donald Trump announced I brought some Hollywood

:27:01.:27:05.

friends speaking out to group in LA and they were sceptical of him. They

:27:06.:27:08.

walked out of the room saying that they laughed more than they do at

:27:09.:27:12.

comedy clubs. He is extremely funny and when you see these clips of him,

:27:13.:27:19.

or of me, where you cut off the point, cut off the job, it is just

:27:20.:27:24.

one of the many ways that the media lies. I think in much of western

:27:25.:27:29.

society people would avoid making jokes using racially disparaging

:27:30.:27:35.

words. I wonder if you think it is acceptable or would be helpful to

:27:36.:27:38.

the Donald Trump campaign if he started to use racist language more

:27:39.:27:43.

overtly. I do not use racist language. You have to go back to a

:27:44.:27:51.

speech from 2006 and take two words from a joke, a joke about political

:27:52.:27:57.

correctness. And things going on in the world at that time. 10,000

:27:58.:28:02.

people in the room laughed, that is funny. What Donald Trump is doing is

:28:03.:28:07.

not, the big issue of the campaign is immigration. A lot of that has to

:28:08.:28:12.

do with this always being the pushback. We try to speak about what

:28:13.:28:18.

is good for the country and the only response is to hear epithets, you

:28:19.:28:24.

are racist, you are a bigot. He is challenging that as well, that PC

:28:25.:28:30.

regime that people are fed up with. I'm getting a slightly different

:28:31.:28:33.

point, whether the tone that you adopt and which I think he has been

:28:34.:28:38.

less adopting off, whether that tone is helpful to the cause you're

:28:39.:28:42.

trying to promote. Whether for example using terms that disparage

:28:43.:28:48.

people weren't that are rather coarse in the way you characterise

:28:49.:28:55.

people, it is whether that makes those people better American

:28:56.:28:58.

citizens and better disposed to you and less happy to think of you

:28:59.:29:02.

getting killed in a terrorist outrage. It is whether these things

:29:03.:29:06.

work or not. I call it funny. The New York Times euphemism for funny

:29:07.:29:13.

is Softworks. Other people find it funny and it is a good way to get

:29:14.:29:19.

the message across. People do listen to me and of course, Winston

:29:20.:29:25.

Churchill gave speeches, of course he was self promoting, that is how

:29:26.:29:30.

you get heard. And to be nit-picking a joke from eight years ago, it

:29:31.:29:35.

shows you the pushback whenever we try to talk about immigration which

:29:36.:29:40.

is driving down wages. Every one of your topics tonight, it is a

:29:41.:29:43.

question of immigration. Dumping more and more poor and needy people,

:29:44.:29:49.

demanding people, on the country, who sometimes flip up and commit

:29:50.:29:53.

mass murder. But we cannot talk about that. I have not said you

:29:54.:30:01.

cannot talk about immigration. We are talking about my language. That

:30:02.:30:05.

was the languished you used, not immigration. One thing I do not

:30:06.:30:11.

understand about Donald Trump, what he says about his daughter. Yes,

:30:12.:30:17.

she's really something, what a beauty. If I were not happily

:30:18.:30:21.

married and did not know her father... Or perhaps I would be

:30:22.:30:28.

dating her. And a reference to her in Playboy magazine. What is he

:30:29.:30:31.

talking about? He's just being funny that he has an

:30:32.:30:47.

attractive daughter. He is famous for dating models, it is

:30:48.:30:50.

self-deprecating. He is saying I have a beautiful daughter, a lot of

:30:51.:30:55.

fathers say that about their daughters. You are against gay

:30:56.:31:04.

marriage. What's worse, two men getting married or a 69-year-old

:31:05.:31:10.

talking about dating his daughter, which is more creepy? I thought we

:31:11.:31:19.

got our sense of humour from the British! He says his daughter is

:31:20.:31:26.

pretty, and again we are nit-picking a joke rather than discussing the

:31:27.:31:30.

important issues of the day, which is that Donald Trump is soaring in

:31:31.:31:36.

the polls because he is the only one talking about immigration, something

:31:37.:31:40.

American people have been asking for for 40 years. After this debate

:31:41.:31:44.

there will be no one else on stage and Donald Tripp will have to start

:31:45.:31:48.

doing card tricks or something because they will be wiped out.

:31:49.:31:50.

Thank you. You probably didn't know

:31:51.:31:51.

there was such a thing as a digital age of consent, so it can only be

:31:52.:31:54.

a surprise a proposal is afoot The most striking consequence

:31:55.:31:58.

would be that no one would be able to process data of an under

:31:59.:32:12.

16-year-old So young teens would not be able

:32:13.:32:13.

to go on social media Which raises the question -

:32:14.:32:17.

is social media a healthy pastime Joining me now from Dublin

:32:18.:32:21.

are Mary Aiken, a cyber psychologist and adviser to the UN on this issue,

:32:22.:32:30.

and vlogger Lex Croucher. Mary, what do you think is the

:32:31.:32:43.

problem with 13, 14, 15-year-olds unregulated by adults going into

:32:44.:32:48.

social media sites? The issue we are talking about at the moment, the

:32:49.:32:53.

current guidelines centre on those who are under 13. What we know in

:32:54.:33:00.

terms of studies is that 39% of 9-12 -year-olds have social media

:33:01.:33:03.

accounts. Clearly the current guidelines are not being adhered to.

:33:04.:33:08.

This is another step forward in terms of data protection, where the

:33:09.:33:14.

EU is proposing to adjust that age to 16, which effectively means

:33:15.:33:19.

15-year-olds and under. Take me through what some of the

:33:20.:33:22.

psychological problems are with those 15-year-olds being on Facebook

:33:23.:33:28.

chatting to each other and whatever. I think chatting on Facebook doesn't

:33:29.:33:33.

cause psychological problems, I think the issue is about periods of

:33:34.:33:37.

development. For example, if you take a young child who is eight or

:33:38.:33:44.

nine and develops a large network, really are they developmentally

:33:45.:33:48.

mature enough to be able to cope with huge numbers of friends,

:33:49.:33:54.

whether they are eight, nine, ten or 11, and particularly prior to

:33:55.:33:58.

fundamental development periods such as Ericsson 's identity formation,

:33:59.:34:04.

which happens between nine, ten, 11, 12, 13. There's a recommended number

:34:05.:34:13.

in cyber psychology, for relationships it is actually 150. As

:34:14.:34:19.

humans, once we build networks beyond that number, we begin to

:34:20.:34:23.

suffer from social stress and exhaustion. Can you imagine the

:34:24.:34:29.

burden for very young children with thousands of connections? Lex, how

:34:30.:34:40.

many Facebook friends do you have? Not that many, only about 300. Do

:34:41.:34:46.

you recognise any of this problem Mary was describing? I think when we

:34:47.:34:52.

are talking about 9-12 -year-olds, that's a bit of a different issue

:34:53.:34:57.

but I also see different changes coming about. I find that people who

:34:58.:35:03.

have similar interests may be made friends they wouldn't be able to on

:35:04.:35:09.

the Internet. So you can find niche groups. You are in your 20s now and

:35:10.:35:15.

you started at what age? I was on social media forums from the age of

:35:16.:35:20.

about 14. So you would have been affected by the raising of the age.

:35:21.:35:25.

Mary, take me through what it goes to somebody in a state of

:35:26.:35:30.

development, the harm it can do to them. What harm can come to someone

:35:31.:35:38.

who is 14 or 15, and has created an avatar online and they are out there

:35:39.:35:45.

being that person? It is an interesting construct. As a

:35:46.:35:49.

behavioural scientist, this is an area we study. I think behavioural

:35:50.:35:54.

scientists are lagging behind in terms of being able to advise

:35:55.:35:59.

caregivers in relation to these issues. For example, if a child

:36:00.:36:03.

creates an idealised version of themselves on a social media site,

:36:04.:36:09.

which is a highly manipulated self, I mean physically manipulated,

:36:10.:36:14.

better skin, more shiny hair, stretched to be five pounds lighter,

:36:15.:36:18.

that virtual self may be increasingly distant from the

:36:19.:36:27.

real-world self which can lead to psychological conflict,

:36:28.:36:28.

hypothetically. I conduct research in this area, we are looking at

:36:29.:36:35.

these transitions over time. In ten years we will be able to tell you

:36:36.:36:39.

the impact of spending that amount of time on social media for children

:36:40.:36:44.

at certain ages, but we would recommend that we don't have to wait

:36:45.:36:48.

for the longitudinal studies and we pay attention to the issues now.

:36:49.:36:56.

That's interesting, that there is a gulf between the online self and

:36:57.:37:01.

your real self, is that true of you, do you think? Were you jealous of

:37:02.:37:06.

others with clean skin and fewer spots online? It was a different

:37:07.:37:11.

culture from the ten years ago, so these issues might be more prevalent

:37:12.:37:15.

now. I just felt I made more connections with people, I found

:37:16.:37:19.

friends online that I couldn't interact with in person so for me it

:37:20.:37:23.

was positive experience but the culture is changing. Do you agree

:37:24.:37:28.

with changing the age and saying you have got to have parental consent? I

:37:29.:37:33.

just cannot see how it would be enforced. Would you advise parents,

:37:34.:37:41.

Mary, to say yes to their 14-year-old who says can I go on

:37:42.:37:48.

Facebook? If the law stipulated that they should be 16, I would never

:37:49.:37:55.

advise a parent... But that law would state with parental permission

:37:56.:37:58.

you could go on. What an adult into that space that is at the moment not

:37:59.:38:07.

governed with an authority figure. I think it depends on the child.

:38:08.:38:11.

Parents are best placed to decide how their child should proceed on a

:38:12.:38:16.

particular platform, but I would also question, how much do parents

:38:17.:38:20.

really know about what their children are doing online? When an

:38:21.:38:25.

app is developed to allow a minor to take an explicit image and send it

:38:26.:38:30.

and the image dissolves, now you are into an ethical and moral issue. We

:38:31.:38:35.

have just had a case in Colorado where a group of young people were

:38:36.:38:39.

using ghost apps which effectively can look like a screen calculator,

:38:40.:38:47.

with collections of images which they were sharing, and parents had

:38:48.:38:54.

no idea. Mary, we do need to stop now. I know there are many parents

:38:55.:39:00.

desperate for advice of the kind you can give. Thank you to you both.

:39:01.:39:04.

There is no doubt what has been the top story of the day

:39:05.:39:08.

British man gets to space, without having to emigrate

:39:09.:39:11.

Well done to flight engineer Tim Peake who arrived at the door

:39:12.:39:15.

of the space station at half past five and who had to wait another two

:39:16.:39:18.

Well done to flight engineer Tim Peake who arrived at the door

:39:19.:39:22.

of the space station at half past five and who had to wait another two

:39:23.:39:26.

It's like the immigration queue at JFK.

:39:27.:39:29.

Tim Peake is described as the first "official" British astronaut,

:39:30.:39:31.

but don't let that mislead you - Britain is not a newcomer

:39:32.:39:34.

to the space race, though many schemes have sadly

:39:35.:39:37.

Talking of which, here's Stephen Smith.

:39:38.:39:39.

Perhaps to Tim Peake's surprise, he is on the left here,

:39:40.:39:42.

and certainly to ours, Britain has found herself

:39:43.:39:44.

involved in a bone fide space launch today.

:39:45.:39:48.

You might never guess at the heartache and manly tears

:39:49.:39:54.

witnessed in lonely corners of our island as the unsung British

:39:55.:39:57.

space programme struggled for liftoff.

:39:58.:40:03.

My name is Doug Millard and I am the space

:40:04.:40:05.

The secret history goes right the way back to

:40:06.:40:17.

We had a rocket called Skylark and that was one of the first

:40:18.:40:23.

Way back in something called the international geophysical year.

:40:24.:40:29.

The rocket downstairs, that was built on

:40:30.:40:31.

At least it was tested on the Isle of Wight.

:40:32.:40:37.

Black Arrow launched a British satellite in 1971.

:40:38.:40:45.

The Americans launched their rocket from Cape Canaveral,

:40:46.:40:50.

Multicoloured sand and chalet bungalows.

:40:51.:41:08.

There is a glorious juxtaposition, so you have

:41:09.:41:17.

a satellite manufacturing centre in Stevenage.

:41:18.:41:18.

You have smaller satellites being put together in Guildford.

:41:19.:41:20.

There is a bit of a spacecraft that landed on Titan,

:41:21.:41:23.

Saturn's largest moon, it is about the size of a pencil

:41:24.:41:30.

and that was built, well they started building it

:41:31.:41:34.

in Canterbury and then they moved up to Milton Keynes.

:41:35.:41:36.

The first bit of that spacecraft to hit Titan was made in England.

:41:37.:41:40.

Is that the nose cone or is that the foot?

:41:41.:41:42.

So it is a little thing about the size of a pen.

:41:43.:41:51.

And it actually went kind of crzsssh.

:41:52.:42:02.

Tim Peake arrives on the International Space Station

:42:03.:42:03.

Even though he has put years of British

:42:04.:42:12.

underachievement in space behind him, some things never change.

:42:13.:42:15.

With classic English reserve, the astronaut keeps his feet

:42:16.:42:17.

I think you would call today a spectacular day in the office.

:42:18.:42:35.

You may remember the story of Lonesome George.

:42:36.:42:44.

He was the century-old tortoise left wandering alone for decades

:42:45.:42:47.

after all of the other Pinta Island tortoises died out.

:42:48.:42:49.

His death in 2012 was thought to be the end of his species.

:42:50.:42:52.

An expedition in the Galapagos Islands has discovered

:42:53.:42:57.

what scientists believes are some of his blood

:42:58.:42:59.

With careful breeding, they're hoping they can

:43:00.:43:01.

So, we thought we'd leave you with some of George's best bits.

:43:02.:43:07.

# I hope I live to relive the days gone by.

:43:08.:43:26.

# Well tonight I'm gonna live for today.

:43:27.:43:35.

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