18/01/2016 Newsnight


18/01/2016

Featuring a report on a woman who became engaged to a man who was in fact an undercover police officer. Actor Michael Sheen discusses steel plant job losses. With Emily Maitlis.


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Tonight in a Newsnight exclusive, we meet the woman accusing the Met

:00:00.:00:07.

police of abusive psychological torture.

:00:08.:00:14.

It was New Year, and we had a party with a few friends, and he asked me

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to marry him. I said yes, and we rang my mum and told my mum.

:00:21.:00:24.

of marriage without realising it was "a state-sponsored lie"

:00:25.:00:27.

Port Talbot lays off another 750 jobs.

:00:28.:00:34.

Is it time to admit we just can't compete on steel anymore and let

:00:35.:00:37.

Local boy Michael Sheen and Business Minister Anna Soubry

:00:38.:00:40.

And who's actually responsible for our schools?

:00:41.:00:43.

The chief inspector says the whole system is patchwork,

:00:44.:00:46.

Tonight we bring you the extraordinary tale of Andrea -

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who says she is the victim of a state sponsored crime.

:01:08.:01:10.

She became engaged to a man who, entirely unknown to her,

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was for many years working undercover for the Police.

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For more than two years he promised her a new life,

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She had no idea what had gone wrong until she started to understand

:01:18.:01:24.

that their whole relationship had been a sham.

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Living a double life, and sent to infiltrate her group

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of friends who were being watched, it seems, for their

:01:30.:01:32.

It is not the first time this has happened within the Metropolitan

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Police. At the end of last year Police

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chiefs made an unreserved apology to women who were deceived

:01:43.:01:44.

into similar relationships - and paid out substantial

:01:45.:01:46.

compensation. They thought they'd drawn

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a line under the abuse - but this investigation by Newsnight

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and the Guardian shows that the problems for

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the Met are far from over. And I felt very safe

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with him at that point. He felt like a very

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committed person. And he was single, as far

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as I knew, at that point. And it seemed like we just kind

:02:08.:02:14.

of met each other at the right time. The man who shared every aspect

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of Andrea's life for two years was in fact an undercover officer

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working for a secret unit Their entire relationship

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was a state sanctioned lie. That chunk of life, of my life,

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was completely fabricated. So I spent quite a large portion

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of my time with someone who didn't This is the man who infiltrated

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Andrea's life, Carlo Neri. He had a passport and a driver's

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license in that name. For several months before

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they started seeing each other in late 2002, he was

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mixing in her circle We agreed to protect her identity,

:03:04.:03:06.

such as the sensitivity of her story, but this

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is her real voice. He really made himself very

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useful within that group. Lots of people in London at that

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time of that age, we were all in our 20s, early 30s,

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we didn't have cars. But why target Andrea,

:03:34.:03:35.

not her real name? She wasn't that politically active,

:03:36.:03:39.

but some of her friends were. I've got no idea why I was chosen

:03:40.:03:44.

other than to think that I was probably just quite a safe bet

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to become respectable in those circles of trade

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unionists and socialists. They had quite strong views

:03:58.:04:00.

politically, and so did he. Andrea's story raises huge

:04:01.:04:07.

questions about the effects The scale of deception

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is shocking, and for what? Andrea has no criminal record,

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and she was simply on the margins of a group of left-wing

:04:21.:04:23.

political activists, mostly linked to

:04:24.:04:30.

the Socialist Party. Andrea met Carlo Neri in September

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2002 on this demonstration in London He was an official steward

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responsible for the route, He was with a group of people that

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I knew, one of whom was a friend He came across as being very

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straightforward, very down to earth, But not the life and

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soul of the party. He kind of stepped back

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a little bit from the crowd. At the time, Andrea

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was living in a rented flat She thought she had

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found her life partner. We were pretty much together

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from the day we met, and we were pretty much inseparable,

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so he moved in with me within a few Yeah, he did frequently,

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he was quite expressive. And I think he gave that impression,

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people were drawn to him because he was kind

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and gentle and caring. Because it was so serious,

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Andrea introduced him When she attended her sister's

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graduation, he was invited. When she went on a family holiday

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to Whitby in Yorkshire, For the family, he was

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the devoted future son-in-law. He seemed to gel with

:06:06.:06:12.

them quite well. And he seemed to become very fond

:06:13.:06:18.

of them very quickly. He kind of made an effort to be

:06:19.:06:21.

in contact with them a lot. Back in London, Carlo Neri

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was attending activist events with Andrea, including one

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above this anarchist book Because Andrea was known to

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the group, Carlo Neri was trusted. He became a regular

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at this kind of event. And Carlo Neri was at the forefront

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of political rallies, working with anti-fascists

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and the Socialist Party. Quite often, he would be one

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of the people who was stewarding. He'd often have to be there really

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early, and be their right to the end, because

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when you take that responsibility, you have got

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quite a different role, and he was very much involved

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in that aspect of it. Carlo was clearly

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accepted by the group. His job as a locksmith could have

:07:11.:07:12.

been extremely useful He quite often said people

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could improve the security of where they lived,

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and again, that seemed at the time With hindsight, it has a different

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perspective, really. Because there's a huge amount

:07:21.:07:30.

of people's locks that someone So, Carlo Neri had the keys

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to activists' flats. We've discovered that he was

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living a double life. Not only was he secretly reporting

:07:46.:07:47.

back to Scotland Yard, what, we don't know,

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but he had a wife and a son, Carlo used the actual names

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of his real family in his cover story, presumably to

:07:54.:07:58.

guard against slip-ups, He brought photos of the kind of key

:07:59.:07:59.

people in his family into our house, and they were in our flat,

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so I had pictures of his son, his sister, and they were actually

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his real family members Obviously at the time

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I didn't know any of this, but now I know they were real

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people in his real life. And there were always reasons

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why I didn't meet them. We know that his wife knew

:08:25.:08:28.

he was a police officer. His occupation is written

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on the birth certificate of his son. We don't know how much, if anything,

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she knew about his undercover Carlo had to invent stories

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to maintain both lives. How could he justify time away

:08:39.:08:48.

from the Maida Vale flat and his live-in relationship

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with Andrea to spend time First, he told Andrea that

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a new job meant he would have Because of his interest in food,

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his interest in Italian food, he then got a job working

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for a company which did import and export of fine quality foods

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and wines, so he then started to do Very convenient for Carlo,

:09:10.:09:12.

because his sister did in fact run an Italian deli, so he could bring

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home fine foods and wines. He also found an excuse to be away

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every other weekend. He was probably away from home

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for four or five nights And that would be due to work trips,

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and every other weekend he would go Because as far as I was concerned,

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I was going to spend my life with this man, and his life

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was my life, and having that strong relationship with a child

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is a really important thing. There were no access visits

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to Cornwall, of course. His son was just down the road

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in the family home. In terms of his relationship

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with Andrea, it was going Just three months after they met,

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he proposed to her, at home in the flat they shared

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in Maida Vale. It was New Year, we had

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a party with a few friends. It was a really nice gathering,

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not a huge party. I said yes, and I rang my mum,

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we told my mum. Carlo and Andrea spent the next year

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together, but by Christmas 2003, but by Christmas 2003,

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the Met and Carlo decided He then began the most

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cynical of exit strategies, father was on his deathbed in Italy,

:10:38.:10:41.

and he had to be there. He said he was really distressed,

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and he had been missing for a week. He had been out of contact

:10:48.:10:51.

for a week at that point. But a dying father was not dramatic

:10:52.:10:54.

enough, it seems, for his exit strategy, and while in Italy,

:10:55.:10:58.

Carlo said he had learned something truly terrible

:10:59.:11:01.

about a female relative. He told me that she had been

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sexually abused by their father. The stuff he was disclosing

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was horrendous. And I think if you love someone

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and you are with someone, you have massive amounts

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of compassion for them. You do for anyone who's

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experiencing that difficulty, but when you live with them,

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and you love them, and you see them being in much pain, or so you think,

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you want to support them. Andrea tried to save

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the relationship, but Carlo seemed He moved out four months later,

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taking everything, down to the last He went to live with other

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activists in the group. Their relationship survived

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for a while, but in November 2004, two years after they first met,

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he sent her an e-mail saying And after that, he simply

:11:57.:12:00.

disappeared. Newsnight now on BBC

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Two with Kirsty Wark. Tonight, the environmental

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protesters, the undercover cop That was that until activists

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and journalists, Newsnight included, started investigating how the Met

:12:16.:12:25.

infiltrated protest groups. Campaigners Peter Salmon

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and Eveline Lubbers devised a survey list of 15 questions following this

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early work to try to identify For example, did they

:12:40.:12:42.

have cars and vans? Someone must have planned it maybe,

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and that is what we want to know. It is also about the individual

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and the undercover officers and the damage they did,

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but someone thought this all out. The Met police are now under intense

:13:03.:13:06.

pressure over the deployment In November, eight women

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who unwittingly entered into intimate sexual relationships

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with undercover police called The worst part of this is to recall

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that actually when he was with me, The Met have settled seven

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of their legal claims for damages. Assistant Commissioner Martin Hewitt

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issued an abject apology. It has become apparent that some

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officers acting undercover whilst seeking to infiltrate protest groups

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entered into long-term intimate sexual relationships

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with women which were abusive, I acknowledge that these

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relationships were a violation of the women's human rights,

:13:49.:13:56.

and abuse of police power I unreservedly apologise on behalf

:13:57.:13:59.

of the Metropolitan Police Service. But if the Met thinks they have

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drawn a line under this affair, In this new case, Andrea says

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it is like being the victim This kind of level of emotional

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abuse, I would say, or psychological abuse, was used to keep

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the relationship on a trajectory It is psychological torture,

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and it's very damaging. Andrea is now working

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with the solicitor who has represented all the other eight

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women who have taken legal action This is clearly a pattern

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that they worked on. The other women who had

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relationships all describe similar exit strategies, and in each

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of those cases, they were harmful, and this is the one of the worst

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I have heard in related the whole story of sexual abuse and domestic

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violence that didn't exist, and I think that is

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a sick thing to do. The Met refused to confirm

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or deny whether Carlo Neri We know his true name,

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and quite a few details about his life, including the fact

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he infiltrated a number of demonstrations here

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in central London. He has a highly distinctive surname,

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and we decided not to broadcast this The Metropolitan Police issued

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a statement to Newsnight. Assisted Commissioner Martin Hewitt

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told us: Andrea has just been given core

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participant status in the public enquiry into undercover

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policing now under way. She has only just begun to process

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the fact that two years of her life were effectively stolen by the state

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after our investigation A decade on, and she's

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rebuilt her life. Rather like the fiery blast

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furness that powers it, the Tata steel plant in Port Talbot

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has shown an insatiable appetite It's been losing a million pounds

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a day - and has swallowed three hundred million pounds of investment

:16:46.:16:48.

in the last four years. The latest brutal round of job cuts

:16:49.:16:51.

there means some 750 will have to go - of more than 1000 jobs in steel

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axed today across Britain. And that - for the Indian

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company behind it, Tata - The reason for the difficulties

:17:05.:17:08.

are not particularly new ones - but they're getting

:17:09.:17:11.

harder to overcome. Slowing demand and a seemingless

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endless supply of cheaper Chinese commodities - plus higher

:17:13.:17:14.

energy costs here - have rendered Britain's

:17:15.:17:16.

own steel making more costly So is there much that the government

:17:17.:17:18.

can realistically do? Jobs in steel are vanishing fast.

:17:19.:18:03.

The clouds of economic uncertainty claimed 750 livelihoods. The steel

:18:04.:18:07.

plant will also see around 100 jobs go. The measures we take, we are

:18:08.:18:18.

very confident we can turn this industry around. The job losses in

:18:19.:18:24.

UK steelworks had their roots in the Chinese construction and

:18:25.:18:28.

manufacturing boom that followed the economic crisis. Steel manufacturers

:18:29.:18:32.

invested in expensive new plants in the hope of supplying this seemingly

:18:33.:18:37.

limitless market but the extra demand never came. If we look at

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this graph for how the capacity is being used, in the decade following

:18:42.:18:48.

the year 2000 it was around 90%. Since 2009 it has been under 80% for

:18:49.:18:53.

much of the time. For the last year, demand has been contracting. The

:18:54.:18:58.

price has dropped from around ?600 per tonne to around ?200 per tonne.

:18:59.:19:05.

Cheap money has meant loss-making steelworks are kept afloat in debt.

:19:06.:19:17.

The MP whose constituency includes the Port Talbot plant says the UK

:19:18.:19:22.

Government must take much of the blame. What we are asking for is a

:19:23.:19:27.

level playing field. 80% of the Chinese steel sector is state-owned.

:19:28.:19:32.

They are subsidised to the hilt by the Chinese government, in clear

:19:33.:19:35.

violation of international trading rules. Why isn't the government

:19:36.:19:40.

doing more to push the European Commission on that? There is

:19:41.:19:44.

anti-dumping legislation in place. Why don't we use it? We have a

:19:45.:19:52.

government with a lazy ideology that believes the market is right and

:19:53.:19:56.

sets the price and the other is that they are cosying up to Beijing. It

:19:57.:20:00.

is not that long ago since the Chancellor was touring Port Talbot.

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He was there to publicise help for energy intensive industries like

:20:08.:20:11.

steel-making. The government says it's done much more sense by

:20:12.:20:20.

changing the rules. There is obviously this overproduction of

:20:21.:20:22.

steel that is affecting countries around the world but the steel

:20:23.:20:29.

industry have asked us for action on procuring and energy prices, we have

:20:30.:20:32.

taken action. They want us to take action within the European Union and

:20:33.:20:36.

we've done that as well but we will continue to work with them. I want

:20:37.:20:42.

to have a strong British steel industry at the heart of our

:20:43.:20:48.

manufacturing base. But the steel industry says other European

:20:49.:20:51.

governments are doing far more. The Germans have spent 6.4 billion euros

:20:52.:20:55.

to support energy intensive industries in terms of mitigating

:20:56.:21:00.

the impact of carbon tax. We spent just ?100 million per year. That

:21:01.:21:04.

will rise but it is just simply not enough. The worldwide steel glut is

:21:05.:21:10.

now hitting China, where plants are closing and one boss says his

:21:11.:21:16.

industry is bleeding cash. Some believe we in the UK are better

:21:17.:21:21.

advised to look for new industries. In the long-term, it is not economic

:21:22.:21:25.

to compete with places like China, where the Labour costs are lower.

:21:26.:21:31.

The stability means it is better to invest. It is not a short-term

:21:32.:21:36.

bridging gap or something that if we do it now we will be able to fix, in

:21:37.:21:40.

a couple of years. They will never be economic again. Talk of new

:21:41.:21:48.

industries and economic forces will be of little comfort to the workers

:21:49.:21:53.

of Port Talbot and others who have lost their jobs. In a moment we will

:21:54.:22:02.

hear from and a supreme but first we are joined by Michael Sheen, who

:22:03.:22:06.

grew up in Port Tolbert and has made a film set there. This area is close

:22:07.:22:12.

to your heart. What impact do you imagine this will have? It is

:22:13.:22:17.

incredibly frightening in terms of the repercussions. It is not just

:22:18.:22:33.

the jobs being cut at Tata steel, there is a domino effect for the

:22:34.:22:40.

whole region. Other jobs that are dependent on what is going on at the

:22:41.:22:46.

steelworks. Port Talbot is a town with a lot of challenges already. It

:22:47.:22:51.

is not the most affluent town. The community is facing a lot of

:22:52.:22:56.

difficulties. There was a report, there is already a lot of poverty

:22:57.:23:00.

there and half the people experiencing the effects of poverty

:23:01.:23:05.

are working households. If people in work are experiencing poverty then

:23:06.:23:09.

who knows what will happen when the job cuts happen? It is a frightening

:23:10.:23:13.

time for the town. It sounds terrible, but on an economic level,

:23:14.:23:20.

this is losing ?1 million per day. Should the government continued to

:23:21.:23:26.

hand out cash? This is part of a much bigger picture. The steel

:23:27.:23:34.

industry, through the cuts we've seen in Redcar, and in Scotland,

:23:35.:23:39.

this is not an industry on the up. It is going in one direction. The

:23:40.:23:45.

government says that it is doing everything to help it but the

:23:46.:23:49.

actions and the words don't fit together. I'm not an expert, I don't

:23:50.:23:53.

know what is going on behind the scenes, I know there are a lot of

:23:54.:23:58.

people who feel the government have a lot of positive words but the

:23:59.:24:02.

actions are not backing that up or if they are it is happening too

:24:03.:24:07.

slowly and into small way. Do you know what actions you would like to

:24:08.:24:11.

see? Without asking the government to waste money on something that is

:24:12.:24:16.

not working. I would like to see the government be honest, first of all,

:24:17.:24:21.

about whether they want to support the steel industry or whether they

:24:22.:24:25.

are letting it died by stealth. If they are allowing that to happen, if

:24:26.:24:30.

they don't think there is a way to support the steel industry, if they

:24:31.:24:33.

are dragging their heels over getting involved in the rules that

:24:34.:24:38.

are there, then they need to put into place very quickly support for

:24:39.:24:42.

the communities that have been affected in this way. If there is

:24:43.:24:46.

nothing more for those communities then that is the biggest danger.

:24:47.:24:51.

Let's put some of those point across. Do you accept that he is

:24:52.:24:58.

asking for honesty? He has had that. He makes a very valid point that

:24:59.:25:04.

this is a dreadful day, and so for example when we know, there is no

:25:05.:25:13.

more steel in Redcar, absolutely, need to support that communities so

:25:14.:25:19.

those workers can get into new jobs, no doubt the Welsh government will

:25:20.:25:23.

come up with the same. We are being very honest about it. This has

:25:24.:25:33.

happened in Redcar, in Port Tolbert. You have had the industries saying

:25:34.:25:37.

the government was not alert to crisis warnings, they were asleep at

:25:38.:25:43.

the wheel. We are on top of it. What happened up in Redcar was different.

:25:44.:25:47.

That was a steelworks that had been losing ?600 million over 2.5, three

:25:48.:25:52.

years. That was never going to happen again. It was gone. There

:25:53.:25:56.

were huge problems with the owners. The difference with Tata steel is

:25:57.:26:02.

quite profound. They have been trying to sell beer division based

:26:03.:26:07.

in Scunthorpe for two years. We can to make sure we play a full part in

:26:08.:26:13.

securing that deal. I pack Tata steel want to sell it. Is that

:26:14.:26:19.

right? It was on the market two years ago in Scunthorpe. Turning to

:26:20.:26:23.

Port Talbot, that is very different. They have already brought the

:26:24.:26:27.

consultants in to say, what do we need to do to keep this place and

:26:28.:26:33.

make sure it is sustainable? They brought the consultants in,

:26:34.:26:39.

unfortunately 1000 jobs have already gone. What are you going to do, put

:26:40.:26:47.

more money in? We cannot do that, the state aid rules do not allow it.

:26:48.:26:53.

But what we can do, we have implemented four of the five

:26:54.:26:59.

electricity prices, emissions directive, dumplings, I'm quite

:27:00.:27:02.

happy to discuss what we've done on dumping, and the other thing we've

:27:03.:27:07.

done, we've looked at the procurement rules. That is hugely

:27:08.:27:11.

important. No other government in the European Union has changed the

:27:12.:27:17.

procurement rules. There is a sense among British steel companies that

:27:18.:27:21.

in many cases they are not even allowed to tender for jobs. At

:27:22.:27:26.

Hinckley Point C at a nuclear plant. That is completely different. 60%

:27:27.:27:35.

will be available. Unfortunately... I do not understand that. Some are

:27:36.:27:44.

out to tender. Can I explain why there is a problem? 60% of the steel

:27:45.:27:48.

should be available for British Steel however, 40% is no longer made

:27:49.:27:55.

in this country. But, in terms of the billions of pounds, this is

:27:56.:28:03.

really important, I want to tell you something that a Labour MP has said,

:28:04.:28:13.

he talks about there not being opportunity to bid on nuclear

:28:14.:28:17.

repairs and the justification they were told was EDF was providing for

:28:18.:28:23.

underutilised French manufacturing. Is he wrong? I don't know. You said

:28:24.:28:28.

that in October. You said you would look into it. Yellow mac people say

:28:29.:28:37.

things but when you look at it. EDF acquired electric and he says it is

:28:38.:28:42.

steel companies have not been able to tender. That's what he said.

:28:43.:28:49.

They've not had the opportunity to bid. Can we talk about what the

:28:50.:28:57.

government has been able to do? That is quite important, if the

:28:58.:29:00.

government is promoting British steel or not. We've changed the

:29:01.:29:04.

procurement rules, never been done before. There is now no excuse not

:29:05.:29:09.

to buy British Steel. That's never been done before. We quantified the

:29:10.:29:14.

amount of steel that we anticipate to be available in the billions of

:29:15.:29:18.

pounds we are putting into the industry in this. We've quantified

:29:19.:29:27.

it and shared those figures. You heard the Prime Minister, what he

:29:28.:29:33.

said, we are absolutely determined that we will keep steel production

:29:34.:29:43.

at both Scunthorpe and Port Talbot. The steel industry have asked you

:29:44.:29:50.

not to give China market status. Are you going to? It is the decision of

:29:51.:29:55.

the European Union. Should they have market economy status? In theory,

:29:56.:29:59.

yes, but they need to prove that they will play by the rules. It is

:30:00.:30:05.

really important, in the first time in July, for the first time we have

:30:06.:30:11.

voted in favour of protectionist measures. That's never happened.

:30:12.:30:16.

They were so shocked in the European Union... They said you were helping

:30:17.:30:23.

China by giving it market status. The overall sense is your government

:30:24.:30:27.

is more preoccupied with keeping China happy than keeping Wales

:30:28.:30:32.

employed. That the spend. That is how it comes across. That is how it

:30:33.:30:37.

comes across to you. That was Leanne Wood. I can assure you we have voted

:30:38.:30:45.

in a way that has never happened before to protect steel. Most

:30:46.:30:49.

importantly, the political will express by the Prime Minister to

:30:50.:30:56.

make sure we continue to produce steel at Port Talbot and Scunthorpe.

:30:57.:31:01.

That is the determination and we've delivered on four.

:31:02.:31:07.

I am going to go back to Michael Sheen. Does this give you

:31:08.:31:13.

confidence? There is the political will that they are committed to

:31:14.:31:16.

steal in this country and import Tolbert specifically. Well, I think

:31:17.:31:22.

the workforce in the steelworks and the larger community have been kind

:31:23.:31:30.

of in the dark for a long time. As soon as it started to become clear

:31:31.:31:33.

there were problems, people started to become desperate to find out what

:31:34.:31:37.

the plan was and whether the Government had a strategy to sort

:31:38.:31:42.

this out. I do think anyone in Port Talbot is feeling any clearer now.

:31:43.:31:46.

And in the country itself, the country has suffered so much in the

:31:47.:31:52.

Dinda era after the coal-mining, those communities in places like the

:31:53.:31:58.

Rhondda but I have visited are still feeling decimated by what happened,

:31:59.:32:01.

and I would hate to see that happen in Port Talbot as well. Is it worth

:32:02.:32:07.

the Government spending money on a way of life, community? Of course,

:32:08.:32:12.

that is why we put ?80 million into Teesside. But can I just say to

:32:13.:32:16.

Michael, I went to Port Talbot for a day, and I know that that is where

:32:17.:32:20.

you were born and bred, but what really strikes me is not just the

:32:21.:32:24.

union representatives who are outstanding and genuinely represent

:32:25.:32:27.

their members, but the level of honesty and realism amongst, mainly

:32:28.:32:33.

men, amongst them, and I think they do get it. I was struck when I went

:32:34.:32:37.

to Scunthorpe as well that the men really understood the real crisis

:32:38.:32:39.

the steel industry was in. Michael Sheen. You might understand that you

:32:40.:32:46.

are drowning, but that doesn't mean you don't want a helping hand. I

:32:47.:32:50.

think it was the realism, and even in Redcar, which was a terrible

:32:51.:32:54.

situation, it was this understanding that you can't argue that the price

:32:55.:32:58.

of steel has almost halved, and that is the reality of it. And in which

:32:59.:33:06.

case, I would love to hear what the Prime Minister and the Government

:33:07.:33:09.

have got in store to help the people of Port Talbot if indeed the steel

:33:10.:33:15.

industry is on decline. It is a Welsh government decision. The door

:33:16.:33:19.

is open, we will always help. Thank you both very much indeed.

:33:20.:33:26.

Who is responsible for the oversight of schools

:33:27.:33:28.

when some are academies under schools commissioners

:33:29.:33:30.

and others the responsibility of local authorities?

:33:31.:33:31.

The question lies at the heart of what Ofsted Chief Michael Wilshaw

:33:32.:33:34.

said is going wrong in the schools system, which he described

:33:35.:33:37.

as confusing and ill-defined in a speech today.

:33:38.:33:42.

He also believes the country cannot continue to "fail half its future"

:33:43.:33:45.

by refusing to sort out the quality of vocational training that many

:33:46.:33:48.

young people who chose less academic courses

:33:49.:33:49.

We will hear from so Michael in a minute.

:33:50.:33:55.

Sir Michael Wilshaw, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector,

:33:56.:33:58.

has issued a call to arms to improve English

:33:59.:34:00.

education, that it may be one the Government doesn't actually

:34:01.:34:02.

Sir Michael's responding to a new report by CentreForum,

:34:03.:34:14.

an education thinktank, which explains how the gap

:34:15.:34:16.

between poorer children and the rest grows whilst they are at school.

:34:17.:34:19.

As they start school, the gap averages

:34:20.:34:22.

By the time they're 11, it's nine months.

:34:23.:34:24.

And at 16, it reaches almost 20 months, more than a year

:34:25.:34:27.

I think the gap between young people from disadvantaged and advantaged

:34:28.:34:34.

backgrounds is one of the big scars on the face of English education.

:34:35.:34:38.

We've made some good progress in primary education in reducing

:34:39.:34:40.

the gap recently, but it's far too wide

:34:41.:34:42.

in secondary education, and it goes on widening,

:34:43.:34:45.

that gap, every year of a youngster's time in education,

:34:46.:34:47.

and that can't be something that we are

:34:48.:34:49.

Now, Sir Michael's proposals to address this cut

:34:50.:34:56.

For example, he says he wants powerful political figures to feel

:34:57.:34:59.

responsible to local people for the performance

:35:00.:35:01.

But the Government has a policy of encouraging local authority

:35:02.:35:05.

schools to become academies, and that in part is intended

:35:06.:35:08.

to erode the role of local politicians in schooling.

:35:09.:35:10.

The school system is built on an army of volunteer school

:35:11.:35:17.

He says they need a better skill set.

:35:18.:35:21.

In fact, in what would be a potentially expensive

:35:22.:35:23.

move, he said we should consider paying them

:35:24.:35:25.

We know that leadership is a crucial ingredient in high-quality

:35:26.:35:32.

schools, and we have got some fantastic schools here in places

:35:33.:35:34.

The problem is, how do we get that strong leadership

:35:35.:35:38.

right throughout the country when we know from Ofsted reports

:35:39.:35:41.

that it is not there in many parts of the

:35:42.:35:43.

country outside London and the south-east?

:35:44.:35:47.

Sir Michael also worries about children drifting into weak

:35:48.:35:49.

vocational training, so he has called for more university

:35:50.:35:51.

technical colleges, schools that start at 14

:35:52.:35:53.

and prepare pupils for a specific trade.

:35:54.:35:59.

And again, this won't be much loved in Whitehall where these

:36:00.:36:02.

expensive technical schools have few fans.

:36:03.:36:05.

So Sir Michael says we need better school leadership,

:36:06.:36:07.

better options for children who want a vocational path and better school

:36:08.:36:10.

You certainly can't say that he lacks ambition.

:36:11.:36:23.

Sir Michael Wilshaw, the Chief Inspector of Schools

:36:24.:36:25.

You paint a pretty grim picture in your report today -

:36:26.:36:29.

underperfoming schools, north south divide, school leavers

:36:30.:36:31.

unprepared for jobs, behaviour problems, this

:36:32.:36:32.

You're approaching the end of your term.

:36:33.:36:40.

I am passionate about raising standards in all of our schools. In

:36:41.:36:50.

our last annual report, we said primary schools across the country

:36:51.:36:53.

are doing very well indeed, and you just had a piece about the closure

:36:54.:36:58.

of steelworks in south Wales, in Redcar, where the steelworks closed

:36:59.:37:03.

recently, an area of deprivation and a high degree of poverty, the

:37:04.:37:06.

primary schools there are doing phenomenally well, above the

:37:07.:37:12.

national average, but the secondary schools are failing, and that has

:37:13.:37:14.

been replicated across the country, particularly in the Midlands and

:37:15.:37:19.

particularly in the north. London is doing very well, as are secondary

:37:20.:37:23.

schools in the south-east. And if we are going to improve our secondary

:37:24.:37:26.

school performance, accountability and leadership are key things that

:37:27.:37:32.

will do that. Something like the Northern Powerhouse, presumably

:37:33.:37:34.

Biggins oration by the government to put them north of the heart of what

:37:35.:37:38.

it is doing industrially, will that happen? Yes, and I support what the

:37:39.:37:44.

Prime Minister Chancellor want to do, but education has to be at the

:37:45.:37:48.

heart of that, and if you have too many failing secondary schools in

:37:49.:37:51.

the North and Midlands, we will not achieve that powerhouse. One in

:37:52.:37:55.

three secondary schools in the Midlands and North are not achieving

:37:56.:37:59.

well. In the 16 local authorities, less than 60% of secondary schools

:38:00.:38:12.

are good or excellent, one third of those in the North. We need good

:38:13.:38:17.

leadership and clarity of the accountability system. You have a

:38:18.:38:21.

teacher recruitment crisis. Where has that gone wrong? There has never

:38:22.:38:26.

been a time when I have been teaching, and I have been a

:38:27.:38:29.

headteacher long time in London, there has never been a time when it

:38:30.:38:33.

has been good. It is particularly problematic now because the economy

:38:34.:38:36.

is improving and graduates have more choice of the sort of jobs that they

:38:37.:38:42.

can go into. But there is a problem, and what we need to do as a nation

:38:43.:38:45.

is to sell teaching much more proactively and positively than we

:38:46.:38:50.

have done up to now. Teaching is a great job. Leading teachers is a

:38:51.:38:55.

great job. We hear so much negativity about teaching. And I get

:38:56.:38:58.

really frustrated when I hear that, because ice really enjoyed my life

:38:59.:39:02.

as a teacher, I thoroughly enjoyed my life is ahead, and you talk to

:39:03.:39:05.

lots of teachers and head teachers, they enjoy it. We don't sell

:39:06.:39:11.

teaching as well as we should. I'm thinking of Nicky Morgan calling

:39:12.:39:15.

Michael Gove the former Education Secretary despised and divisive. Do

:39:16.:39:23.

you agree with that? I had a lot of time for Michael Gove. He may have

:39:24.:39:27.

made mistakes here there, but he was passionate about raising standards

:39:28.:39:31.

and raising standards for poor children, and I think he has been

:39:32.:39:36.

unfairly treated. The message he sent was if you want standards to

:39:37.:39:39.

improve, you have got to give power and authority and freedom to the

:39:40.:39:45.

people who really matter, the people on the front line, the people in the

:39:46.:39:51.

classrooms. Take the system away from bureaucrats and give it to

:39:52.:39:54.

people who can really raise standards, people in the classrooms

:39:55.:39:57.

and corridors and playgrounds. I wanted to ask you about the front

:39:58.:40:01.

story of the Daily Telegraph, David Cameron will back the Muslim Veil

:40:02.:40:05.

plan. He says the Prime Minister will give backing to public

:40:06.:40:09.

authorities in terms of schools, the banning of the veil in schools.

:40:10.:40:13.

Would you back that? Si yes, I would. The Prime Minister's view

:40:14.:40:20.

that we have got to make sure that our liberal values, our liberal

:40:21.:40:26.

Western values are protected, people need to listen to that, and the

:40:27.:40:29.

Muslim community need to listen to it as well. We have come a long way

:40:30.:40:35.

in our society to ensure that we have equality for women and that

:40:36.:40:38.

they are treated fairly. We mustn't go backwards.

:40:39.:40:42.

So if it is down to individual organisations to choose to stop

:40:43.:40:44.

Muslim women from wearing the veil, you would recommend it? We would

:40:45.:40:49.

support that, particularly if it is stopping good communication in the

:40:50.:40:53.

classroom and lecture hall. And you think it is? Possibly. My inspectors

:40:54.:40:58.

occasionally see issues with communication. Sir Michael Wilshaw,

:40:59.:41:02.

thank you for coming in.

:41:03.:41:05.

Featuring a report on a woman who became engaged to a man who was in fact an undercover police officer. Actor Michael Sheen discusses steel plant job losses. The chief inspector of schools flags up some serious problems. Presented by Emily Maitlis.


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