19/02/2016 Newsnight


In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.

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As we come on air it's clear that the Prime Minister


There is an EU deal, which David Cameron says gives


the UK special status in the European Union.


Now we will have a referendum, most likly on 23rd June.


David Cameron's renegotiation in Brussels has taken far longer than


anyone wanted, but a night we have a deal. Within the last hour, I have


negotiated a deal to give the UK special status inside the European


Union. I will fly back to London tonight and update the Cabinet at


10am tomorrow. We'll be talking to politicians,


players and hacks on the scene. With the starting gun primed


for the referendum campaign, we are at a big rally for one


of the groups that wants She did something that in our


society is unspeakable. She kissed a black man.


Is To Kill A Mockingbird a book for our times?


We'll be talking to Lionel Shriver about the classic American novel.


The President of the EU has confirmed there is unanimous


support for an agreement between the EU and Britain.


David Cameron will now come home and convene a Cabinet meeting


tomorrow for the first time since the Falklands War in 1982.


Then the shackles will be off and Cabinet ministers who back


"out" in the referendum, now thought to include


David Cameron's ally, Justice Secretary Michael Gove,


The Prime Minister has just been speaking in Brussels.


This deal has delivered on the commitments I made at the beginning


of this renegotiation process. Britain will be permanently out of


ever closer union, never part of a European superstate. There will be


tough new restrictions on access to our welfare system for EU migrants.


No more something for nothing. Britain will never join the euro,


and we have secured vital protections for our economy and a


full say over the rules of the free trade single market, while remaining


outside the euro. I believe this is enough for me to recommend that the


United Kingdom remain in the European Union, having the best of


both worlds. We will be in the parts of Europe that work for us,


influencing the decisions that affect us, in the driving seat of


the world's biggest market, and with the ability to take action to keep


our people safe. And we will be out of the parts of Europe that do not


work for us. Out of the open borders, out of the bailouts, out of


the euro, and out of those schemes in which Britain wants no part.


Joining me is Chris Cook. David Cameron being upbeat, but what is


the deal? Some things we knew about and some details on things we did


not know about. One of the things is we are not going to be bound by the


European Union normal rhetoric on ever closer union. That is what he


means when he refers to special status for the United Kingdom. We


knew they were try to get this deal whereby new arrivals in the UK would


not get benefits in full for four years, only gradually. We did not


know for how long that emergency brake on benefits for migrants would


last. He wanted 13 years but he only got seven. But that was more than


people in Brussels thought he would get. Third, child benefit being sent


abroad. The original deal was this would be indexed down by the cost of


living of the country where the child lives. There was a question


about whether Eastern European countries would live with this, they


would be major losers. He will get it but it will be introduced


gradually, only taking full effect for everyone in 2020. Poland was


most resistant to this and child benefit in Poland is something like


?4 97 people are weak. Yes, but there are countries like Austria,


who have Eastern European migrants with children abroad who might fancy


saving some money. One other contentious thing was the eurozone


block, the idea that we needed a guarantee that we could not be


railroaded into staff if the eurozone voted together for their


interests. They have something we can claim as a win and France can


also claim is a win, the big supporters of us not having


anything. We can cause problems for them if they try to railroad us.


Thank you very much. David Grossman has been following the details. Here


he is. Not much sleep but still much to do.


I was here until five o'clock this morning working through this and we


made some progress but still no deal. David Cameron arrived back at


the summit trying to exude the air of someone with infinite energy and


determination. Good morning. The EU Council president, Donald Tusk, may


look friendly but really he is holding the leaders hostage. His


view is I will not sit you down until you agree that we can agree.


He will keep them here as long as he has to. They have nothing to do up


there. They get bored. These are people who certainly think they are


very powerful and he's keeping them hanging around. It is utterly


deliberate. They cannot get good food, they will not have a good


lunch. Indeed, what was supposed to be in English breakfast to formalise


the agreement was delayed, pencilled in as an English lunch, whatever


that is, before turning into a late afternoon unspecified English meal,


before becoming an English dinner, possibly around 8pm. Dogs dinner,


anyone? Perhaps it was low blood sugar but flashes of annoyance began


to leak out. As time passes, tweeted one senior Czech Republic


negotiator, I am or perplexed by the British approach of non-negotiation.


Quite unorthodox, to say the least. Annoyance, too, that precious time


has been spent discussing Britain. They did Cameron has been warned not


to strike a triumphalist note. -- David Cameron.


My concern is can we, outside the UK, sell this deal as a fair deal


for everybody. If Cameron goes back home saying that he has a big deal


and it is excellent for the UK, I fear that many people on the


continent might ask themselves, is it a good deal for me? One by one,


the leaders started leaving, temporarily, back to their hotels


for a rest and presumably something to eat. Financial are core, a stop


at a Brussels chip shop. The question for David Cameron, how will


the negotiations taste at home. -- for Angela Merkel, a stop at a chip


shop. For many, it serves to remind us of our subordinate status in the


EU. The process has flagged up issues without solution. A lot of


people in Britain, even after 40 years of membership, do not know


that EU law automatically strikes down British law. Again, this


sovereignty deal flags up the problem without solving it. The net


effect is to remind everyone of what a subordinate province we are within


this new entity. At 8:40pm, the leaders at last gathered for that


long delayed meal. Officials handed out a final draft. Getting agreement


to night, though, is only the start of the process. Whilst David


Cameron's attention turns towards the UK referendum, there is work to


do in other nations, two, where European and national parliaments


will now have their say. I don't think a cast-iron guarantee can be


given that what is agreed today is what will come out at the end of the


day. The parliament will play a bigger role, other factors will play


a role. In the end, it is likely a deal will pass because people are


committed to keeping the UK in Europe. As long as there are no


direct conflicts with what the treaty says and key member states


want, it will pass, but there is potentially a rocky


want, it will pass, but there is About an hour after they sat down,


Donald Tusk announced that the deal was agreed, negotiations were over.


I am joined by David from Brussels. What is happening. If I am out of


breath it is because I have run from the Prime Minister's press


conference which is going on as we speak. A little over half an hour


ago David Cameron bounded into the press conference. The British press


were today to ask questions. He was clearly very relieved. He has a


package, not the package he started looking for. If I look at my notes,


one word comes up time and again, "Risk". Risk to our security. He


talks about this relationship to extradite criminals from the UK. And


risk over the economy. He was asked about the fact that his cabinet is


now effectively split. Michael Gove, for example, will be campaigning on


the other side of the argument from him. He talked about that. He said,


I have known Michael for 30 years and he is a friend, but over that


time he has believed Britain is better off outside Europe. He will


now be campaigning for that. He has not given us an indication that June


23 will be the referendum date but it now seems a racing certainty that


if you want to watch the referendum you might have to cancel holiday


plans on that date. We heard him in the press conference saying how much


better this was for Britain and how it would iron out the problems. Any


fond words for the European Union at all? At one point he said, look, I


do not love Brussels at all, I love Britain, but I think Britain's best


way forward in future is to have this new negotiated relationship


with the EU, with a specific clause that will be in a new treaty


whenever it is made, that says that Britain is explicitly outside the


ambition of ever closer union. In that sense, he tried to set himself


out as the outsider from Brussels, despite the fact that he has been


immersed in these discussions over the last two days and before that


with numerous trips. He tried to present himself as the outsider from


Europe, who had to come inside to get the deal he thinks is right for


the British people. To discuss, I'm joined now


by the Labour MP Chuka Umunna, who is supporting Britain Stronger


In Europe, And buy one of the three founding


members of grassroots out. What do you make of the deal?


Notwithstanding the renegotiation, I would have been arguing for us to


stay in any event. I think the things that have been secured do


matter. I don't know about Tom but I was not alive in 1975 when people


last had the vote on this. Many of the older generation that I speak


to, they say they thought they were joining an economic club, not a


political union. He has secured a clear commitment that we will have


an opt out from this notion of ever closer union. I don't think most of


our European counterparts want this United States of Europe. So that was


an easy daughter push. You say regardless you would be heading a


campaign to stay in. Do you think anything here will make it easier to


sell on the doorstep? With the older generation I think the notion of


ever closer union is important. Secondly, let's be clear, this is


not a referendum about whether we join the euro, but about whether we


stay in the European Union altogether. We have a legal


commitment that the euro is the only currency in Europe. There are a


number of currencies. More competition is essential, if we are


to compete with the likes of China. Things that have been secured around


the operation of the benefit system, people do not want a free for all


but they want the thing to operate fairly. The idea that you pay in


first before you take anything is something that appeals. That will


appeal to people, that the benefit system has been reformed. I was not


around in 1975. Not around in 1985! One of the things I hear time and


again is that what people voted for in the 1970s was free trade and a


common market agreement. This renegotiation will not get us back


to that. With the possibility we now know, confirmed by the Prime


Minister that Michael Gove will be campaigning. You presumably expected


that? I did not. I have had conversations with Michael and lots


of colleagues. We have reached decisions at different times. I have


been on this side of the Ottoman for a long time. I gave the


renegotiation a chance but this does not deal with uncontrolled


immigration from Europe, to make sure we have a system that is fair


and controlled. It does not stop us sending ?350 million a week to


Brussels. And it will not allow us to trade globally. Let's be honest,


we would still be a member of Nato, still a member of the UN, still


involved in the GE 20, the G7, the Commonwealth, would still have a


relationship with the United States. Talking about Michael Gove,


interesting you did not expect that. What about Boris Johnson? I cannot


speak for individual colleagues. I do not know when Michael and Boris


reached their conclusions. I have been on this side of the argument


for a long time. It will come as no surprise to anyone that Michael Gove


is arguing for us to leave. What I do not like about this narrative


from those who argue for us to leave is the notion that somehow whenever


Britain wants to get anything done, and you hear hints of it here, we


get trampled by European partners, when nothing could be further from


the truth. People have to stop talking down our country in this


way. British prime ministers, of labour and Tory persuasion, have


managed to marshal a majority on the European Council behind the UK


position many times. Usually we are on the majority side nine out of ten


times. The idea that we get trampled is nonsense. Also the idea that we


do not control our own affairs. I sat through the last Parliament


watching a Tory government introducing troubling tuition fees,


bedroom tax, these kind of things. This is something the EU have no


control over. There were 121 acts of Parliament in the last Parliament


and just four dealt with EU legislation.


In terms of how you will be campaigning, the latest vote for the


Times on the 3rd of February, after the draft agreement, but the outcome


pain at 45, the in campaign at 39 and a lot of undecided. There is not


a lot here to change people's minds, is there? The argument to stay in


the European Union goes far broader. People answering those polls know


that, and yet 45 for out. Polls go up and down. This will be close. It


will be a good moment for our democracy, where we will have a


lively debate. I say bring it on. I agree with the last bit. On


doorsteps in Kettering last weekend, we knocked on doors and there was an


impassioned group of people out there who want to leave the European


Union. I think the debate is welcome to put the question to bed. The


difference is that I think we could be so much better off outside. I


absolutely believe in Britain. Then why keep talking down Britain. I am


not. Save it for the doorsteps. This was supposed to be the big


night when the referendum campaign was launched, the Prime Minister


triumphantly home from Brussels addressing TV crews on the steps


of Downing Street, and the Cabinet David Cameron is still


across the Channel but the out campaigners who'd booked a huge


venue round the corner in anticipation of the starting gun


are agitating anyway. Gabriel Gatehouse joins us


from Westminster. What happened?


There were certainly raised eyebrows, to put it mildly, in the


audience, with almost nobody expecting George Galloway to appear.


Some people walked out, not a huge number. There were some angry


people. I think quite a few of them just wanted their dinner, because


the event was over running. It will be interesting what the campaign to


stay in mix of that. This was supposed to be the unofficial


starting gun for the leaving campaign. When the rally ended,


there still wasn't officially a deal. But this Grassroots Out group


isn't the only group hoping to lead Britain out of the EU. There is a


lot at stake, not least official designation by the electoral


commission and the funding that comes with that. This was an attempt


to unify that movement, or at least to wrest control of it, by Nigel


Farage and David Davies among them, but they were keen to emphasise


their cross party credentials. Labour MP Kate Hoey was on the


speakers list and George Galloway. Most of all, they wanted to bring


across that they are a grassroots movement, an organic movement and


one with a strong antiestablishment favour. -- flavour.


In the shadow of Westminster Abbey, a very polite sort of insurgency.


They queued up in an orderly fashion and hour and a half before kick-off.


Inside, what any European would recognise as a fine example


of that famous British sense of humour.


Grassroots Out say they intend to win this referendum door by door,


Many of these people have their minds made up already,


This is being pitched as a movement of ordinary people


battling an out of touch elite, not just in Brussels


The establishment will be watching this closely.


There is a faint whiff of the Winston versus Big Brother


What they are trying to do is to harness a mistrust of the EU


with a more general alienation from Westminster


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen...


The problem for Grassroots Out is it isn't really a grassroots movement,


It's got only about 5000 followers on Twitter


and most of tonight's speakers were familiar faces


from inside what they themselves dismiss as the Westminster bubble.


Are we going to allow ourselves to be put,


by virtue of these hopeless negotiations, into a permanent


second-tier of a two-tier Europe, dominated by other


There was also a mystery guest, a man whose name was kept so secret


he drew genuine gasps of astonishment from some


And I want you to give a very big, warm welcome to George


Nigel and I agree on hardly anything at all.


But we do agree on at least one thing.


And it happens to be the most important


thing, not only now but in the lifetime of everyone


in this hall and everyone in this country.


It is the demand that Britain should be an


independent, sovereign and democratic country,


and that means leaving the European Union.


There is presumably little that David Cameron


to change their minds, but it is the undecided voters,


perhaps as much as one third of the electorate,


that they need to reach if they are to


turn a Ukip style insurgency into a referendum winning movement.


Gabriel Gatehouse. Now straight to Brussels, where we can hear from


Angela Merkel. We believe that we have given now a package to David


Cameron that will enable him to elicit support in Britain for


Britain remaining a member of the European Union. This was his goal.


There was no doubt about it. It is true that a spirit of compromise was


necessary on our part, but the fact that we wanted Britain to remain in


the European Union justify those compromises, and I don't think it


was any of us felt that this was particularly easy, but... Angela


Merkel talking about compromise, so let's talk about that in Brussels


with Alex Barker of the Financial Times and Valentina Pop of the Wall


Street Journal. David Cameron was selling this is a big win, but was


it? It depends what you judge that on. In terms of the Brussels debate,


the Brussels fight, the diplomacy over the last seven months, he came


out tonight probably better than expected. He gave a concession on


child benefit but, on the main areas he was looking for, ever closer


union, promises of treaty change and an emergency break lasting for a


seven year period, he pretty much came out well. He didn't give away


much. The problem is that he isn't judged on what he can get in


Brussels but what he asked for in the first place, and there, well, he


didn't necessarily find it very well. He thought there would be


treaty change, that he could pitch his demands onto that, that the


Eurozone would be making their own effort to integrate, and that didn't


really happen. So he was pushing his own agenda unilaterally. He was


making all the demands, and that is a more difficult negotiation.


Valentina Pop, Angela Merkel saying there was compromise, and Poland was


one country which was sticking to its guns for a while. I wonder what


the atmosphere is like now among the other countries and what they have


had to concede. What Angela Merkel also said was that the deal


enshrines the flexibility of having different ideas about Europe and


going ahead at different speeds, this principle ultimately of cherry


picking what we like about Europe and what we don't. Obviously, it


will trigger more fights ahead. Already, Angela Merkel was saying


she wants to implement the child benefits indexation that Britain is


implementing, a measure that surely central and eastern Europeans will


not like. This comes on top of a lot of strife and disarray over how to


deal with the block's migration problem. Then what happens is the


other leaders go back to their countries and there is agitation for


exactly what you say. If Britain can get a la carte, the other countries


have to go a la carte as well. Exactly, and he has a lot of fans


among central and Eastern European countries on some issues, obviously


not on the welfare restrictions, but precisely on this idea that the


European Union is not a unified concept, where all of the countries


are heading to, but that you can have all sorts of exceptions and opt


outs ultimately. Alex, as Chuka Umunna was saying, and it was clear


neither camp was going to be swayed, I wonder now, with so many


undecideds, whether this deal will make a big difference, when we heard


the most recent polls putting the out campaign at 55% already. What is


there to say over the relaxed four months? -- over the next four


months. This is a historic moment for stop people have been fighting


for a referendum for 20 odd years. They were often at the margins in


the first place. This has a special momentum of its own, and that is


what David Cameron will want to be riding over the next few days. This


will be one of the most important, biggest, single issue votes held


anywhere in the world in this generation. It is hugely


consequential. That will dominate the debate over the coming days. I


doubt the detail of the actual package will really be picked over


much as the big political drama plays out. Any idea on Boris Johnson


where will he be, in or out? I think his policy at the moment is to veer


everywhere possible. It is quite hard to tell. It will certainly have


changed his calculations to a degree to see Michael Gove on the Brexit


side. Let's see. Valentina Pop, you work for the Wall Street Journal,


and we heard John Kerry earlier making an impassioned plea for


Britain to stay in Europe. Do you think we will hear more American


interventions? I couldn't speak for the US government, but surely we


will hear a lot of economic impact of what Brexit could mean for


Britain and for the transatlantic relationship. Surely, more messages


to come from various corners. Thank you.


Harper Lee has died at the age of 89. She wrote the Pulitzer


prize-winning book in 1960 and after went aground in her hometown.


There was a sudden flurry of interest in Ms Lee last year


when her lawyer chanced upon the manuscript of a sequel


in Harper Lee's papers and Go Set a Watchman was quickly published.


It shocked readers with its portrayal of Atticus later


But To Kill A Mockingbird will be remembered when Watchman


Ladies and gentlemen, Gregory Peck. The world never seems as fresh and


wonderful as comforting and terrifying, as good and evil, as it


does when seen through the eyes of a child. For a writer to capture that


feeling is remarkable. Perhaps that is why one book in the last few


years has been so warmly embraced by tens of millions of people. To kill


a Mockingbird. There is a lot of talk about the


elusive, great American novel, but perhaps it has already been written.


The last person to come as close as anyone to writing it was the equally


elusive Harper Lee. To Kill A Mockingbird appeared when America


was still divided by law over race. Set in the deep south, it was about


a lawyer and a father defending an African American accused of raping a


white woman. They were not wrong, were they? Now he has been charged,


I am going to defend him. Excuse me, Mr York. What kind of man are you?


Old-fashioned manners, poverty and racism. This was the south that


Harper Lee lived in, as her neighbours recalled. A lot of us see


a lot similarities between what she wrote about in things that did


happen in this town, and other people would say the same thing.


They would say, this could have been about our town. We had a person like


Boo Radley. We had people like that. about our town. We had a person like


book special. We find the defendant guilty as charged.


Harper Lee, Monroeville, Al Obama. With tantalisingly few public


appearances, Lee became famous for her invisibility but she caused a


literary sensation last year when an earlier novel, Go Set A Watchman,


was dusted off and published 56 years after Mockingbird. Our courts,


only man could have created them equal. The self-effacing Harper Lee


seems heroic and enviably single-minded. For her insistence on


the primacy of her much loved words. The author


Lionel Shriver joins me now. What age were you? Can you remember


where you were when you read Mockingbird? In the bedroom,


definitely. I was about 14, a good age to read that book. There has


been in total 30 million copies read and sold. What was the appeal of it,


do you think? I don't know the statistics, but I would hazard that


an awful lot of those 30 million worldwide. I don't want to criticise


her when she has just died, but I would call it a morally simplistic


book, but it is certainly morally simple. It is appealing to whites


because they get to play both sides, they are the bad people and the


inroads. It is obvious with whom you are supposed to identify. -- the bad


people and the heroes. It is the brave lawyer sticking up for the


innocent black so-called rapist. And he fights of the lynch mob and his


children make them feel ashamed. It is great stuff, but it is miles away


from the kind of cultural complexity... Desegregation years. I


wonder if it was helped on by Gregory Peck in the film, which came


just two years after the book. I think that had a huge effect on


the popularity of the book. You had female writers of a similar age


writing who did not have anything like the heft in the public


imagination has this reclusive author. In some ways, they were more


challenging authors, and their universe was not so simple. They ask


you to enter into a much stranger universe than the one you get with


Harper Lee. I believe those writers are under red. Let's hit them next.


Do you have a theory as to why she was so reclusive? It's pretty


obvious that success was terrifying. I am sceptical that she would have


occupied, as an author, especially as a character, the kind of position


she seemed to occupy if she had not become a recluse and had continued


to produce. There is something warped about the way that we are so


fascinated and in some ways elevate artists who stop and who have all


the opportunity and turned their back on it. It is dramatic,


intriguing, but is it admirable? And then, Lo and behold, in her 80s,


another book. Well, it is a matter of some controversy whether it


really is another book. Obviously a lot of the press thought it was a


first draft of To Kill A Mockingbird. And some people think


it shouldn't have been published. I don't imagine a great harm was done


to her reputation. Certainly, the advertisement of go set watchmen


meant there were hugely copies of the original book bought. -- go set


a Watchman. But I wonder, looking at how many African-Americans would


have read the book, and actually now when you look at what is happening


in some areas, we do not have Jim Crow but there is some pretty brutal


behaviour going on. That is the thing, this book does not speak to


the present moment in my mind. We don't have the same kind of racism


that we used to. It is more insidious. People are, mercifully,


less comfortable with being covertly bigoted. There are certain kinds of


language we do not hear any more and that is all good. We are dealing


much more in the United States with structural racism, the way things


work, work, not what people say. That is what the black lives matter


thing is about. If you are going to get involved in America's


institutional racism, it has more to do with the drug laws, and the fact


that they are put together in such a way that blacks are


disproportionately put away. Thank you.


Tomorrow morning's front pages, as you would imagine:


Now for arts and night, presented by Andrew Graham


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