23/02/2016 Newsnight


23/02/2016

Inside the Calais 'jungle' as migrants face eviction. The French ambassador is in the studio. How will farmers vote in the EU referendum? With Evan Davis.


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Transcript


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as Calais brings its bulldozers to the camp.

:00:00.:00:13.

but there's a lot of resistance to leaving.

:00:14.:00:17.

Not only because of the sense of community that has built up here

:00:18.:00:20.

would take them one step further away from their goal.

:00:21.:00:29.

The French Ambassador is with us to explain what it is.

:00:30.:00:35.

have we found the most enthusiastic lobby for the remaining in the EU?

:00:36.:00:44.

When I said I was an out, I was virtually lynched in the hotel! I

:00:45.:00:53.

ran out into the streets, it was safer than inside that hotel last

:00:54.:00:55.

night. Farming policy is one area

:00:56.:00:56.

in which the EU has the most power. at the annual conference

:00:57.:00:59.

of National Farmers' Union. Sadiq Khan, Labour's candidate

:01:00.:01:02.

for Mayor of London, joins us live. Is he intensely relaxed

:01:03.:01:04.

about London's filthy rich? transform the mood

:01:05.:01:07.

of an entire city? Newsnight is on the trail

:01:08.:01:13.

of the Foxes in Leicester. In Leicester, the people

:01:14.:01:18.

of Leicester, they don't speak about the weather anymore -

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they speak about Leicester City. Calais has always been a gateway

:01:22.:01:30.

between France and England. In the 16th century,

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it was actually English, But today, for migrants,

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it's not a place for passage any more - it's a purgatory

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for thousands of people No desire to go home,

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no right to move here, and no ladders to help them scale

:01:47.:01:51.

the newly erected fences The French authorities

:01:52.:01:54.

now want the squalor We appear to be on the edge of a new

:01:55.:02:00.

phase in the life of migrants there. They had given residents

:02:01.:02:11.

until 8:00pm this evening to clear the southern part

:02:12.:02:13.

of the camp. What can you tell us is happening,

:02:14.:02:23.

what happened this evening? Well, there is a fairly significant police

:02:24.:02:27.

presence here, this is the camp behind me, I have seen numerous

:02:28.:02:31.

police cars advance driving past this road here, and in fact a few

:02:32.:02:36.

with flashing blue light stage and here, but the eight o'clock deadline

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has come and gone, and the bulldozers have not gone in because

:02:41.:02:45.

there is a legal challenge. A couple of charities that work in the camp

:02:46.:02:47.

saying that the local authorities have their sums wrong and they do

:02:48.:02:52.

not have enough capacity to rehouse all the residents of the camp. Now,

:02:53.:02:55.

the Jungle has always been a rather strange

:02:56.:03:01.

sanctioned impromptu settlement, and the

:03:02.:03:05.

cannot go on now, the residents have to be rehoused either in a state

:03:06.:03:09.

cannot go on now, the residents have facility just next door, or they are

:03:10.:03:09.

welcome to go to any of facility just next door, or they are

:03:10.:03:13.

the country. The people here facility just next door, or they are

:03:14.:03:17.

they don't want to do that, not least because they don't want to

:03:18.:03:21.

stay in France - they want to go to Britain. My feeling is that the days

:03:22.:03:27.

of the Jungle are numbered, but it is 24 or 48 hours before we learn

:03:28.:03:32.

the Rosol of this legal challenge, and that means more uncertainty for

:03:33.:03:33.

the people of the camp. -- result. They're cold, the mornings

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in the Jungle - the wind whips in,

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blowing with it the elusive promise of a new life on the other

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side of the Channel. and there's the threat of change

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in the air. Many people spend the nights

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trying to cross, Volunteers are trying to make

:03:50.:03:51.

as much noise as possible. We are here this morning

:03:52.:04:01.

trying to make sure that the maximum number

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of people possible and to give a real idea

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of the number of people who are actually in

:04:08.:04:11.

the southern part of the camp. to decide whether

:04:12.:04:16.

to give the go-ahead to the authorities

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who want to dismantle it. they've drastically

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underestimated the numbers. We know that there are over 300

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unaccompanied children in this to go ahead and the bulldozers

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arrive and our volunteers who work with the children

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here every day, if they lose track of them, then they are effectively

:04:35.:04:37.

lost in the system, we don't know

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what will happen to them. The magistrate arrives

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and is treated to a chaotic guided tour of the Jungle's

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mud-sodden lanes. There's a lot of commotion

:04:48.:04:53.

here as the judge has come to visit the camp - her purpose, really,

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is to check the numbers. The authorities want to move

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the inhabitants of the Jungle a census in the camp,

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and they say that the population is three times

:05:14.:05:16.

the official estimate. Plus, most people don't

:05:17.:05:19.

seem to like the look What will you do

:05:20.:05:22.

if they bulldoze this camp? I don't know where I have to go,

:05:23.:05:26.

what I'm going to do. But they say you could live in these

:05:27.:05:31.

containers over here, you don't want to do that?

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If I live in containers, that means I'm going to make asylum

:05:35.:05:37.

in France. And you don't want to do that?

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For sure, yeah. Why not? Cos, as I told you, France does not

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believe that we are in danger, they don't believe our case,

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they don't believe our problems. And you think that

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Britain will be more sympathetic? Rightly or wrongly,

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almost everyone here thinks life would be better

:05:55.:06:02.

in Britain than in France. Most have little or no

:06:03.:06:05.

connection to the UK, but some do, and they are not encouraged

:06:06.:06:10.

by the magistrate's visit. I think the Jungle will finish.

:06:11.:06:13.

You think the Jungle will finish? Her body language,

:06:14.:06:17.

there was no reaction, From her body language,

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you could tell? I don't know, probably

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on the street or something. Go on the street?

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Yeah, but there's no other choices. You speak very good English.

:06:31.:06:33.

I was a translator in Afghanistan. Really?

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Who were you translating for? The British Army?

:06:39.:06:43.

Yeah. It might seem perverse

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for people to be so attached to this mud and tarpaulin settlement

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on Europe's northern edge, but there is a real sense

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of community in the Jungle. There are English lessons

:06:55.:06:57.

in the warmth of a heated classroom. There's a library called,

:06:58.:07:04.

perhaps inevitably, Jungle Books, in between attempts

:07:05.:07:07.

to cross the Channel. There are restaurants

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and barber's shops, even a theatre housed

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in a dome-shaped tent which has become

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the Jungle's unofficial town hall. It's never been our argument

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that this Jungle should remain. We've been here for five months

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and have always said that the conditions are not

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worthy of any human being. The disease here, the mental

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illness we are seeing, it's a treacherous place,

:07:31.:07:33.

but at the same time the decision to try to evict

:07:34.:07:35.

so many people in such a short amount of time for them

:07:36.:07:39.

to find somewhere else to go, Midway through the afternoon,

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news comes from the courthouse - the magistrate has

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postponed her decision. The inhabitants of the camp

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are in limbo. is just about filtering

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through here now. It's a reprieve, but probably

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only a temporary one. Most of the people who live

:08:06.:08:07.

here agree that conditions are far from ideal, but there's

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a lot of resistance to leaving. Not only because of the sense

:08:11.:08:13.

of community that has built up here, would take them one step further

:08:14.:08:16.

away from their goal. They've travelled thousands

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of miles to get this far, often at great danger and expense -

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they are not about to give up now. Where are you going?

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What were you trying to do? Train.

:08:28.:08:30.

Train to London? Train to London. Day in, day out,

:08:31.:08:33.

they hide themselves in the backs of lorries

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trying to get across. It's a little over an hour's journey

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from here to Lord's Cricket Ground. These people are so close,

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and yet the prospect of attaining their goal

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seems to slip further and further into the distance

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where the bulldozers are waiting. Joining me now is the French

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Ambassador to the United Kingdom, Thanks for coming in, do you agree

:09:06.:09:16.

that the Jungle's days are now numbered? It is on its way out? Yes,

:09:17.:09:22.

absolutely, we decided to relocate people, but nobody could complain

:09:23.:09:28.

about that, because the conditions were absolutely terrible, and some

:09:29.:09:33.

say not even very humanitarian. So we decided to provide them a home

:09:34.:09:37.

with security, with water, with heating. So it will be better. And

:09:38.:09:42.

of course sometimes those zones are not going to be as near to the

:09:43.:09:46.

coast, the Channel as they want, and they would rather have the lottery

:09:47.:09:50.

ticket to see if they can get to England, wouldn't they? What is your

:09:51.:09:55.

answer to that? Are they going to make it to England? It is much

:09:56.:10:02.

harder, because we have spent some money also to put the fences and

:10:03.:10:09.

also extra police, and we worked closely with the British on that.

:10:10.:10:17.

So, as it is good, they start to go elsewhere. But those relocations are

:10:18.:10:25.

not very far from the southern part of the camp, and others, I would

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like to say, have been relocated somewhere else in France, and we

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have convinced some of them also to accept asylum, because most of them

:10:35.:10:40.

want to come to the UK. Right. What is the medium term plan? I mean, you

:10:41.:10:46.

cannot just have people living in squalor in France, a developed

:10:47.:10:50.

country like this, that is not the long-term solution, what is the

:10:51.:10:54.

idea? Are we going to give asylum to those people, send them home? Well,

:10:55.:11:01.

it depends. For those who are not refugees, we will send them home. I

:11:02.:11:05.

mean, those who are economic migrants, they cannot stay there.

:11:06.:11:11.

Those who are real refugees, yes, they are granted asylum, but

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providing they accepted. Because some of them do not want to stay in

:11:14.:11:19.

France. But your plan is that, ultimately, France will process

:11:20.:11:22.

those people, some will stay if they are allowed, some will go home.

:11:23.:11:28.

Absolutely. Is there anything the British could be doing to expedite

:11:29.:11:32.

that long-term plan and make it happen more quickly? I am thinking

:11:33.:11:38.

particularly around the unaccompanied children. Yeah, I

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think there have been some decisions by English courts, and so we hope it

:11:43.:11:47.

will be implemented for those children. What, that children who

:11:48.:11:52.

have some case to come to the UK will be brought to the UK? You would

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like that to happen? Yes. OK, and this is an important time for

:11:58.:12:01.

British relations with France and Europe for reasons beyond the

:12:02.:12:04.

situation in Calais. Sticking with Calais for the moment, one of the

:12:05.:12:09.

issues you may be able to help us with is what happens to the British

:12:10.:12:13.

border if we choose to leave in the referendum, because some say the

:12:14.:12:17.

French may bring the border back to Dover, some say the French would

:12:18.:12:21.

keep it in Calais. What is the truth? Well, I don't know, because

:12:22.:12:26.

in fact some authorities have said that the border should be in Calais,

:12:27.:12:34.

members of the opposition say that they are implementing the

:12:35.:12:41.

agreements, so we don't want to speculate. What you get out of the

:12:42.:12:45.

agreement? Is it just to be nice to ask that you let us put your border

:12:46.:12:50.

there, or does it help you in some way? I think at that time we had

:12:51.:12:56.

Sangatte, and we wanted to close it, so there was an agreement, and we

:12:57.:13:00.

thought that we had, I don't member how many at that time, but they kept

:13:01.:13:06.

coming during all those years, and we did not anticipate that. We are

:13:07.:13:11.

in the early days of our European debate, I just wonder what you make

:13:12.:13:16.

of it so far, whether you are happy with it? Well, I cannot say I am

:13:17.:13:22.

happy or not happy, it is fought the British to say. The only thing I can

:13:23.:13:27.

say is that France would like the UK to stay within the EU, and that is

:13:28.:13:32.

the reason why we made some efforts in Brussels to get an agreement.

:13:33.:13:37.

President Hollande, everybody speaks to their own audience in these

:13:38.:13:40.

things, don't they? President Hollande said there were no special

:13:41.:13:45.

dispensation is from the rules, no veto over the eurozone, Britain has

:13:46.:13:49.

a special place that it has always had, he was trying to play down the

:13:50.:13:53.

concessions made. You think the concessions David Cameron God were

:13:54.:13:59.

not think? I think he got a good agreement, in fact, because he got

:14:00.:14:05.

almost everything he wanted. But we had some red lines, and we didn't

:14:06.:14:10.

want those red lines to be crossed, and that is the case. We have worked

:14:11.:14:13.

a lot on the economic government, and I think that is satisfying for

:14:14.:14:17.

all of us. Is Boris Johnson well known in

:14:18.:14:29.

France? He is well-known, he speaks French! Is the popular, well liked?

:14:30.:14:37.

I do not know, everyone knows him. And they like to listen to him. You

:14:38.:14:43.

are very diplomatic! Thank you very much.

:14:44.:14:45.

It didn't take long in this EU campaign for the art of letter

:14:46.:14:48.

writing to be deployed as a marketing tool.

:14:49.:14:50.

Leaders of some big FTSE 100 companies today put their name

:14:51.:14:53.

to a letter in The Times, arguing that we should stay in.

:14:54.:14:56.

A valuable contribution to the debate,

:14:57.:14:58.

But forget big business for a moment,

:14:59.:15:02.

and think about a different group which stands to be directly affected

:15:03.:15:05.

They haven't written any letters yet, but it does so happen

:15:06.:15:10.

that the NFU conference started today in Birmingham.

:15:11.:15:12.

Our policy editor Chris Cook went along.

:15:13.:15:24.

Where better for Newsnight to come when considering how farmers think

:15:25.:15:32.

then beautiful, rustic Birmingham? The National Farmers' Union which

:15:33.:15:37.

skews to represent slightly better off farmers, is here for its

:15:38.:15:41.

conference. Once critical questions for the meeting this week in

:15:42.:15:44.

Birmingham is Europe. They have a session on Brexit tomorrow. For

:15:45.:15:48.

farmers as for other businesses, one of the critical issues is if we were

:15:49.:15:54.

to leave the EU, on what terms would we have access to the single market.

:15:55.:15:58.

For example might we cut a deal where we could sell goods to the EU

:15:59.:16:03.

as we do today or maybe have Depay terror. At the moment countries

:16:04.:16:08.

without a trade deal have got to pay a tariff of 8% of the value of

:16:09.:16:15.

anything they sell to the EU. The agriculture secretary made a point

:16:16.:16:18.

we heard from many delegates. Even Eurosceptics. What we're going to

:16:19.:16:21.

publish a government, Eurosceptics. What we're going to

:16:22.:16:27.

a document about alternative models which is

:16:28.:16:30.

a document about alternative models in his statement yesterday. I think

:16:31.:16:35.

the real answer is, we do not know. Exactly what it will look like. The

:16:36.:16:39.

debate about Europe is for farmers is unique, they have the common

:16:40.:16:44.

agricultural policy to worry about, a Europe-wide system of subsidies.

:16:45.:16:51.

Farmers in the UK in 2014 got around ?2 billion of cash which made up a

:16:52.:16:54.

large part of their ?5 billion a year or so of actual income. The

:16:55.:16:59.

question for them is, if the UK were to leave the EU, with the British

:17:00.:17:02.

Government chose to give them as much money as Europe does and there

:17:03.:17:08.

is scepticism in this hall about whether they would. The NFU has not

:17:09.:17:14.

is scepticism in this hall about got a formal position yet in Europe

:17:15.:17:15.

but the president is pretty clear about his views. If we were to leave

:17:16.:17:20.

the European Union then there would be some further difficult

:17:21.:17:24.

negotiations and that would be a difficult battle I guess to convince

:17:25.:17:29.

the Treasury to allow the same level of support to British farmers as to

:17:30.:17:36.

European competitors. During the negotiations on the current CAD

:17:37.:17:44.

system, Britain was an advocate for a leaner and less generous CHP. That

:17:45.:17:48.

is why I am nervous, you just have to look back to the last couple of

:17:49.:17:53.

reforms, the Treasury were adamant that the beginning of those

:17:54.:17:57.

negotiations about the level of support for the CHP, that it had to

:17:58.:18:00.

be reduced. We also had nervous about what Westminster would do

:18:01.:18:05.

without Brussels oversight from delegates. I do not believe they

:18:06.:18:08.

would respect British farming and indeed help promote it as much as

:18:09.:18:14.

the European colleagues do. You think Irish farming methods from the

:18:15.:18:18.

higher prestige of farming say in France? Very much so. Our French

:18:19.:18:24.

colleagues are highly supportive of European agriculture. Perhaps

:18:25.:18:28.

contrary to their stereotypes we struggled to find delegates who

:18:29.:18:31.

would make a case that farmers would do better than Brexit. I was quite

:18:32.:18:35.

shocked, I came last night and I'm staying in a hotel and discussion

:18:36.:18:42.

about Europe came up and when I said I was in favour of out, I was almost

:18:43.:18:47.

lynched! What is the balance of opinion like here. For those

:18:48.:18:50.

prepared to go public, they're worried about leaving the EU and

:18:51.:18:55.

especially worried because they are on the ropes at the moment, they had

:18:56.:19:00.

a couple of terrible years, a third coming up and the prospect of

:19:01.:19:03.

another change when they're not been told by the government what the plan

:19:04.:19:07.

be years, they're worried. A number of them in private deal we ought to

:19:08.:19:12.

be leaving the European Union because they're concerned about

:19:13.:19:15.

other things and not about farming. Campaigners for leave said they know

:19:16.:19:20.

they must reassure farmers would be farm subsidies after Brexit. Because

:19:21.:19:25.

the slogan of the day at the farmers attending the NFU conference right

:19:26.:19:26.

now is, better the devil you know. Last week, we had the Conservative

:19:27.:19:30.

candidate for London mayor on this I asked if he would publish his tax

:19:31.:19:33.

return, as the leading candidates He said he would, and yesterday

:19:34.:19:37.

he delivered a letter from his accountant

:19:38.:19:42.

with the important figures in it. Headline - he had an average income

:19:43.:19:46.

of ?1.2 million a year over the last five years,

:19:47.:19:50.

most of it itemised as trust income. That background highlights a

:19:51.:19:54.

very big contrast Mr Khan likes to remind us

:19:55.:19:56.

that he was brought up on a council estate,

:19:57.:20:02.

one of eight children of parents It's not the only contrast

:20:03.:20:04.

with Zac Goldsmith. Zac Goldsmith wants to leave. Sadiq

:20:05.:20:22.

Khan joins us now. On your tax return, you said you would publish

:20:23.:20:27.

it, are you going to do that? We will do it tomorrow. We'll be found

:20:28.:20:34.

at anything interesting M I will publish and you can judge for

:20:35.:20:38.

yourself. The background has been an issue in the London mayoral

:20:39.:20:42.

elections. Did you feel that, it is stuck about Zac Goldsmith, you said

:20:43.:20:47.

he is someone who never had a proper job, I just wonder whether

:20:48.:20:53.

background is important? I talk about my background because it

:20:54.:20:57.

defines who I am. I'm proud that I am one of eight children, the son of

:20:58.:21:03.

immigrants, brought up in a council estate to becoming a lawyer and

:21:04.:21:07.

having a successful business then to Cabinet. We fulfilled our potential

:21:08.:21:17.

because of the joys of London and I feel many Londoners now are not

:21:18.:21:21.

getting the same chances. The Evening Standard, the main London

:21:22.:21:25.

newspaper, has focused or drawn attention to your former

:21:26.:21:31.

brother-in-law who was quite radicalised in the 1990s. He has

:21:32.:21:35.

renounced all of that and is no longer with your sister and you do

:21:36.:21:39.

not see him much. You're not in contact with them now. No one could

:21:40.:21:43.

point that at you but that experience must have been a very

:21:44.:21:47.

difficult one for your family. It was. I'm pleased you ask me,

:21:48.:21:55.

throughout my critical career I have never run away from the fact that I

:21:56.:21:57.

think tackling extremism is important. I was the guy who had a

:21:58.:22:03.

fatwa against him because I voted for same-sex marriage. There was an

:22:04.:22:14.

extremist campaign and people who voted for me were told they were

:22:15.:22:20.

going to hell. But I also speak about my experience as a British

:22:21.:22:25.

Muslim coming across opinions that I find odious and many British Muslims

:22:26.:22:30.

will have come across these views and it is difficult. I have a

:22:31.:22:36.

position of responsibility, and I need to talk about these things but

:22:37.:22:40.

there is no other city in the world where I would like to raise my

:22:41.:22:44.

daughters. London is fantastic and my story is that of many immigrants

:22:45.:22:49.

over 1000 years. I do not want to pry, in your family, you have got

:22:50.:22:54.

the father of your nephews and nieces onstage in Trafalgar Square

:22:55.:22:59.

same things most people would regard as fairly ridiculous. Did you

:23:00.:23:05.

intervene, was a crisis for the family, or was it just something

:23:06.:23:11.

people did, being before September the 11th. I have not seen my sister

:23:12.:23:21.

ex-husband for more than 12 years. He has explained himself, it is for

:23:22.:23:24.

him to explain himself. What is important is this, we live in a

:23:25.:23:30.

fantastic city, a city were Muslims, Christians, but this, not simply

:23:31.:23:36.

tolerate one another but respect and celebrate the difference. I think

:23:37.:23:41.

one of the important things is to recognise that in London there are

:23:42.:23:46.

more than 1 million Londoners of Islamic faith, the vast majority

:23:47.:23:51.

will find those kind of views offensive and want nothing to do

:23:52.:23:54.

with them. Housing and migration are issues in the London election and

:23:55.:24:00.

nationally as well, is there a link between them, perhaps one not often

:24:01.:24:04.

talked about that in London the population has grown by 1 million in

:24:05.:24:08.

the past ten years, we have not built houses for that many people

:24:09.:24:12.

and maybe that is why it is so difficult to get a house. Successive

:24:13.:24:18.

governments have failed London. By 2020 the population will be 9

:24:19.:24:25.

million. Both is not bad, it is lack of planning. We have to build homes

:24:26.:24:30.

for Londoners. No point building homes if they are sold to investors

:24:31.:24:34.

in the Middle East and Asia before they have been completed. You could

:24:35.:24:39.

say and people to say if you're not going to build homes you had better

:24:40.:24:43.

not let the population grow like that, that is the argument. I spoke

:24:44.:24:47.

about the history of London over 1000 years, we have been open to

:24:48.:24:51.

trade, ideas and people. We are so successful because success of

:24:52.:24:56.

generations, politicians have taken tough decisions to plan Crossrail,

:24:57.:25:03.

to build homes for Londoners, first dibs to Londoners, to scale the map

:25:04.:25:09.

to get the jobs of tomorrow. So I think what is important is for us to

:25:10.:25:13.

recognise that successive governments have failed London. We

:25:14.:25:19.

need America with the experience and political will to build homes for

:25:20.:25:23.

Londoners. I want to speak about your political position, you spoke

:25:24.:25:27.

to the Spectator magazine and said you welcome the fact we have 140

:25:28.:25:32.

plus billionaires in London. Did you really say that? Absolutely not. I'm

:25:33.:25:40.

there for Londoners, whether you're a billionaire, chief executive, a

:25:41.:25:44.

nurse, a bus driver or a dinner lady. You will go to Shanghai, the

:25:45.:25:52.

chief executive of Barclays Bank sitting next to you, you will lead a

:25:53.:25:56.

trade delegation out there batting for the great banks in the City of

:25:57.:26:01.

London to drum up business. The financial sector creates a lot of

:26:02.:26:06.

jobs, growth and brings investment to London as does the tech sector,

:26:07.:26:13.

creative industries. Of course I will be batting for them and I will

:26:14.:26:19.

join the Conservative Chancellor in the interests of London. I will join

:26:20.:26:23.

a conservative pro-Minister because I want to be a champion for London.

:26:24.:26:29.

A shop steward from London. You were the guy who nominated Jeremy Corbyn

:26:30.:26:33.

in the leadership election. Jeremy Corbyn has said, Peter Mandelson has

:26:34.:26:40.

talked scathingly saying he was relaxed about the filthy rich.

:26:41.:26:47.

Jeremy Corbyn said this is the time to call for public ownership and

:26:48.:26:50.

control of the banking sector. This is only 2012, not ancient history.

:26:51.:26:56.

You're as a completely different end of the party. Jeremy Corbyn, his

:26:57.:27:01.

name is not on the ballot paper for the 5th of May. I want to be the

:27:02.:27:06.

Advocate and the champion for London. You have changed your tune

:27:07.:27:13.

completely. To be fair to me, why nominated Jeremy Corbyn I made clear

:27:14.:27:16.

I had no intention of voting for him. During the selection process I

:27:17.:27:24.

was asked if I would serve in his Shadow Cabinet and I said no. I was

:27:25.:27:28.

clear about what my views where. You will regret not selecting him?

:27:29.:27:32.

You're trying to have it both ways. We have lost two general elections

:27:33.:27:38.

in a row, badly. The idea of the elite in Westminster blocking a

:27:39.:27:42.

Cabinet, fairly popular with the labour supporters, it is important

:27:43.:27:47.

that the labour movement got a chance to choose from a cross

:27:48.:27:53.

section of candidates. And Jeremy Corbyn was the winner amongst trade

:27:54.:27:56.

union supporters and registered supporters. We need to understand

:27:57.:28:01.

that I'm the guy standing to be the Mayor of London and Jeremy has an

:28:02.:28:04.

important job to do in the Labour Party. Sometimes we disagree on

:28:05.:28:12.

issues. On some things I would agree with the Conservative Prime Minister

:28:13.:28:16.

or Chancellor, the Home Secretary, the Business Secretary, Defence

:28:17.:28:20.

Secretary, to argue for London to stay an integral part of the EU for

:28:21.:28:24.

economic benefits, social and cultural benefits and security as

:28:25.:28:25.

well. Thank you very much. A petition in favour giving

:28:26.:28:29.

all young children the meningitis B vaccine has attracted getting

:28:30.:28:32.

on for 800,000 signatures. That is the biggest petition to

:28:33.:28:43.

Parliament in recent memory. At the moment, in this country,

:28:44.:28:45.

the vaccine is only given There have been some tragic cases

:28:46.:28:48.

of children who have died from the infection -

:28:49.:28:52.

and photos have been released of them recently,

:28:53.:28:54.

to draw attention to the danger. Here is one -

:28:55.:28:56.

two-year-old Faye Burdett, who died on Valentine's Day

:28:57.:28:58.

this year. The photo of her, obviously

:28:59.:29:00.

in a very bad way in a hospital bed, Medical opinion has not been

:29:01.:29:04.

convinced that the vaccine should be We'll talk about the dilemma

:29:05.:29:08.

with Dr Sarah Jarvis, But first, let's hear

:29:09.:29:14.

from Claire Timmins whose son Mason and who has been campaigning to

:29:15.:29:18.

raise awareness about the disease. Good evening to you. The terrible

:29:19.:29:33.

experience, just how quickly it happened, take us through what

:29:34.:29:37.

happened. It was so fast, he was totally fine on the Sunday evening,

:29:38.:29:44.

his normal joyful self. Went to bed around 6:30, woke up being sick, I

:29:45.:29:48.

presumed it was just a normal sickness bug, like many children

:29:49.:29:53.

have, spent the day on the sofa, and on the afternoon he got a bit of a

:29:54.:29:59.

temperature, and within half an hour his temperature had not really come

:30:00.:30:04.

down, so I decided to take him to the doctor, and as we were getting

:30:05.:30:09.

ready to go out of the door, he became sleepy, confused. We

:30:10.:30:14.

travelled the short journey to the doctor's. So you are getting more

:30:15.:30:20.

worried. As we got in the doctor's, he lost consciousness. At what

:30:21.:30:26.

stage, what was the first point when somebody said, could this be

:30:27.:30:30.

meningitis? Our doctor was really good, she recognised it straightaway

:30:31.:30:34.

and gave him the antibiotics straightaway. But it was too late.

:30:35.:30:41.

Yeah. Review you had been a trained medical person, was there a sign you

:30:42.:30:46.

could have spotted that would have said, that is meningitis? Before he

:30:47.:30:50.

was passing out, in the morning, for example. It sounds silly to say, but

:30:51.:30:58.

I had seen him a lot worse with viruses in the past. Up until he

:30:59.:31:06.

started to become sleepy and getting a little bit confused, it was just

:31:07.:31:12.

like any other viral infection. Were you aware of meningitis? I myself

:31:13.:31:16.

had a meningitis when I was younger, I was five. So I was a little bit

:31:17.:31:24.

aware, but not as much as I am now, obviously. And Mason has a sister,

:31:25.:31:31.

you have given her, you have active axe and eight it. She had and

:31:32.:31:38.

shortly after Mason passed away. Sarah Jarvis, take us through the

:31:39.:31:42.

issue about the vaccine, there is a short-term issue, which is that

:31:43.:31:46.

GlaxoSmithKline cannot make enough of the stuff, there is not much

:31:47.:31:50.

around at the moment. There has been an enormous run on private doctors

:31:51.:31:55.

to give the vaccine. I am delighted to be raising awareness, I have sat

:31:56.:31:59.

in chairs like this many times over the years trying to persuade parents

:32:00.:32:02.

that immunisation against infectious diseases saves lives, and so it is

:32:03.:32:09.

quite ironic for me to be here now, because in this case everybody wants

:32:10.:32:14.

this vaccine. We have got a horrible, horrible condition. It

:32:15.:32:17.

does not just cause meningitis, it is a germ that can cause many

:32:18.:32:33.

different conditions, it can lead to amputation and of course death. It

:32:34.:32:39.

is not that common. Last year, meningitis B in England, there were

:32:40.:32:45.

about 500 cases, of which about 139 cases were in children between the

:32:46.:32:50.

ages of one and five. The peak ages children under one, and that is why

:32:51.:32:54.

the vaccine at the moment is being given to children under one. And so

:32:55.:33:00.

we are world leaders in that, we should say, most children are not

:33:01.:33:06.

doing it at all. But to be clear, is it just the cost that says, let's

:33:07.:33:10.

not give it to everybody? Or is there a potential side-effect? So

:33:11.:33:19.

far, this seems to have been a very well tolerated vaccine, about 1

:33:20.:33:22.

million cases given overall, and there do not seem to have been any

:33:23.:33:26.

major side-effects. We know that other vaccines, because do not

:33:27.:33:30.

forget, this is not the only one, meningitis C, there were more cases

:33:31.:33:36.

of that, another strain of the same champ three. There were more cases

:33:37.:33:42.

of that, and we have had a vaccine for that for 20 years. Very sadly,

:33:43.:33:47.

you have to think about cost effectiveness, not so much cost.

:33:48.:33:51.

Even if we could give this vaccine for ?20 per dose, which I believe is

:33:52.:33:55.

the figure that has been negotiated by the Government with the company,

:33:56.:34:00.

over six-month-old babies need two doses. About 800,000 children in the

:34:01.:34:08.

UK needed, about 3.5 million children in the age range, about

:34:09.:34:13.

?144 million to immunise those children. There were 139 children

:34:14.:34:19.

who contracted meningitis B last year. How many of those children

:34:20.:34:26.

died or were seriously damaged? That figure is for England, it might be

:34:27.:34:31.

higher for the UK, but about one in ten of them die, and a lot of the

:34:32.:34:35.

others, it has to be said, seriously injured. But to put it into

:34:36.:34:40.

perspective, last year the entire child and adolescent mental health

:34:41.:34:44.

budget for the whole UK, for the mental health of everyone about

:34:45.:34:48.

young children under 18, was ?700 million. We are talking about a

:34:49.:34:52.

fifth of the cost of the entire budget to immunise this group of

:34:53.:34:58.

people, possibly save 20 lives. I will give you the last word, do you

:34:59.:35:03.

see the difficult calculation that the doctors have to do? I presume it

:35:04.:35:09.

does not make any difference to your calculation. No, we think it would

:35:10.:35:15.

be cost-effective, because what if people do survive? The after-care

:35:16.:35:18.

and all that side of things. Plus, you know, if we are not successful,

:35:19.:35:24.

we have still raised awareness, and by doing that that could have saved

:35:25.:35:29.

lives. If you get to the doctor more quickly. Thank you both.

:35:30.:35:31.

Even if you are not much into football,

:35:32.:35:33.

and I was someone who at school was so bad at it that I would run

:35:34.:35:37.

around the pitch trying to look like I was taking an interest,

:35:38.:35:40.

whereas I was actually ensuring I was nowhere near the ball.

:35:41.:35:42.

But even for the least football-minded among us,

:35:43.:35:45.

this Premier League season has a potential fairy-tale narrative

:35:46.:35:47.

that gives Cinderella a run for its money.

:35:48.:35:49.

It's Leicester City, the unfancied Midlanders

:35:50.:35:52.

who are keeping the moneybag clubs off the top of the table.

:35:53.:35:55.

So what does club success mean for Leicester,

:35:56.:35:56.

and - the big question - can City hold their nerve

:35:57.:35:59.

Who would have thought it, Leicester is Stephen Smith.

:36:00.:36:11.

Who would have thought it, Leicester City are the new Barcelona! Jamie

:36:12.:36:16.

Vardy has created Premier League history... Lionel Messi and to have

:36:17.:36:24.

their famous style, but Leicester have chicken tikka. The afternoon

:36:25.:36:31.

belonged to Leicester City. We fight to win, every ball is the last ball.

:36:32.:36:37.

Can it be true that this diversity is united behind the most unlikely

:36:38.:36:41.

superstars, and is sharing in their good fortune? Leicester City topped

:36:42.:36:49.

the Gemili table, I never thought I would say that! Evening, officer,

:36:50.:36:54.

could we have a word for Her Majesty's and Newsnight? That is a

:36:55.:36:59.

very big camera, Sir! I am more than excited, a lot of guys are very

:37:00.:37:05.

excited about Leicester being at the top of the premiership. It is nice

:37:06.:37:08.

to know Leicester is on the map or something. We are going to win!

:37:09.:37:14.

There is more positivity around, definitely, yes. What Leicester is

:37:15.:37:18.

proving is that it is about teamwork. When Leicester play, we

:37:19.:37:23.

get really worked up that they are going to score at least two goals. I

:37:24.:37:30.

am on the scent of Leicester's extraordinary success. There is

:37:31.:37:35.

that, and I never could resist a skate wing and pickled eggs. Anyone

:37:36.:37:42.

a Leicester fan? Number one fan! How are you? Nice to meet you. Stone me,

:37:43.:37:53.

it is Leicester City legend Steve Walsh! Are you a regular here? Every

:37:54.:37:59.

Friday, fish and chips he holds the record for the most red cards in the

:38:00.:38:04.

Football League, never mind Boris Johnson, he knows how to make an

:38:05.:38:10.

exit. It is famously a very diverse city, is everyone involved, or is it

:38:11.:38:14.

mainly white folks? I think everybody in the country wants us to

:38:15.:38:18.

win the league. The whole of Leicester, I speak to everyone, we

:38:19.:38:24.

are connected together as a city. I think the neutral does want to

:38:25.:38:30.

support us now. They can see the Jamie Vardy type of player coming

:38:31.:38:34.

from the non-league club, it is Roy of the Rovers kind of story. Look at

:38:35.:38:42.

that, beautiful! That is why I am this big now. Since the last

:38:43.:38:47.

election campaign, the BBC has learned to treat all man-made data

:38:48.:38:52.

with caution, but we are happy to rely on superstition and necromancy,

:38:53.:38:56.

and be taught in Richard III's resting place is that the success of

:38:57.:39:02.

the Foxes is linked to the supernatural. Many people did not

:39:03.:39:07.

pay much attention. When we buried Richard, the king in the car park,

:39:08.:39:11.

now the king in the cathedral, it adds to our sense of civic pride,

:39:12.:39:15.

and the team doing well means everyone is walking around with our

:39:16.:39:19.

chests up, it is great. I hardly dare mention it, but the theory that

:39:20.:39:27.

now Richard is at peace, this has encouraged Leicester to do so well.

:39:28.:39:31.

It would be a hard theory to prove, wouldn't it? But it is all part of

:39:32.:39:35.

that sense of us gaining confidence in our identity. In a

:39:36.:39:39.

that sense of us gaining confidence had history that has been buried and

:39:40.:39:43.

hidden, it is now revealed in all kinds of different

:39:44.:39:54.

hidden, it is now revealed in all of 1962-63 were

:39:55.:39:55.

hidden, it is now revealed in all freeze on at the time, right through

:39:56.:40:09.

the country. We were on first or second, I do

:40:10.:40:19.

the country. We were on first or delusions of even winning it, and

:40:20.:40:23.

then it's gradually fails you, and it is not just finishing second or

:40:24.:40:28.

third, we went down to seventh. It was a great season for us, because

:40:29.:40:33.

we were a ballot of Leigh small club compared to some of the big boys. --

:40:34.:40:46.

a ballot of Leigh -- a relatively small club, and the whole town was

:40:47.:40:49.

behind you. And small club, and the whole town was

:40:50.:41:01.

means to today's supporters, every ball in the crucial away fixture

:41:02.:41:09.

with Arsenal. It is mind games. No, it is my game! Leicester is a

:41:10.:41:15.

multicultural city, QC that in the stadium, a lot of different

:41:16.:41:18.

cultures, people of different backgrounds coming together to

:41:19.:41:23.

support the team. -- you see that. I hate missing the match, it was my

:41:24.:41:27.

best friend's birthday on the same day as a Leicester match, and I was

:41:28.:41:31.

so upset that I had to miss the match to go to her birthday meal. We

:41:32.:41:38.

had a weekend away, we were in the restaurant, and I had the live score

:41:39.:41:41.

on my phone the whole time, I kept telling her the whole time, I am

:41:42.:41:45.

missing it because of you, you had better appreciated! -- appreciate

:41:46.:41:54.

it! As we game plan the run-in to the title, their real goal is to

:41:55.:41:59.

finish in the top four, ensuring lucrative European football in the

:42:00.:42:05.

city next year. That would salve the pain of the Ice Kings and their

:42:06.:42:09.

winter of discontent. I'm afraid the bookies do put

:42:10.:42:14.

Arsenal and Tottenham ahead of Leicester, but that could leave them

:42:15.:42:20.

in the top four. That is all for tonight, have a very good night.

:42:21.:42:32.

Temperatures continuing to fall overnight tonight, and extensive

:42:33.:42:38.

frost to stop tomorrow morning. Overall, a sparkling day of winter

:42:39.:42:40.

sunshine for

:42:41.:42:41.

Inside the Calais 'jungle' as migrants face eviction. The French ambassador is in the studio. How will farmers vote in the EU referendum? London mayoral candidate Sadiq Khan is interviewed live. And how has Leicester City FC's success changed the mood of the city? With Evan Davis.


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