24/02/2016 Newsnight


The French threaten to drive migrants out of Calais. Can anyone now stop Donald Trump? Who failed in Rotherham and why? With Mark Urban.

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The French threaten to drive out the migrants from their huge encampment


at Calais. Where will they go? If other EU countries


won't allow these people in, does that mean the European


principle of open borders This Conservative former


Police Minister says it's all proof As the Rotherham abuse scandal


ends in six convictions, are the authorities also


guilty of not having taken For the survivors,


it's a day of justice. Today is the day that the world


knows that they were always We'll ask the prosecutor


and the local MP who was at fault. Also tonight, Donald


Trump keeps winning. We won with poorly-educated -


I love the poorly-educated. Can anything stop him,


the ultimate outsider, from capturing the Republican


party nomination? And what does American


feminist Gloria Steinem make Do you think that Hillary Clinton


is in trouble with this nomination? I mean, we are mostly raised


by women and we associate And I think that is especially hard


for many men. On the one hand, it's just


one contest of many - the primaries of the American


presidential election On the other hand,


it is perhaps the moment. The moment at which all


the doubters, all the commentators and, yes, America itself,


is starting to accept that Donald Trump may have just landed


himself in pole position to be the definitive Republican


Presidential nominee. Has he seen off all of his


contenders? Not quite but it's becoming increasingly hard to see


how it could be anyone but him. Here is Emily Maitlis.


He was meant to be the noisy one, the candidate that everyone loved


to talk about, that then went quietly


We won with poorly-educated - I love the poorly-educated!


Nevada makes three wins in a row for Donald Trump,


after New Hampshire and South Carolina.


He won last night by a margin of 22%, a whopping 45.9%


And whilst the Republican establishment have been waiting


for him to disappear in a puff of smoke,


many are starting to understand he's now looking like he may take


the race all the way to the White House.


At this point, it will be surprising if anybody but Trump wins more


He has a fair to good shot in almost every state that is voting.


He is not likely to win them all, but he is likely to win


So, Super Tuesday could be the next in his string of victories.


In second and third place were Marco Rubio,


the Florida senator on 24%, and the Texas senator,


This, you see, is where things get confusing.


The field may have narrowed, there is no longer a Jeb


Bush in the race or a Chris Christie, but their votes don't


appear to be going to more a mainstream candidate.


They are, in other words, tussling with each other,


And, increasingly, it is not just about sentiment or vocal support,


it is about the maths and that is where things get tricky.


Trump has the lion's share of delegates from the first four


On Super Tuesday the 11 states in play will divide those delegates


Trump is believed to only be at risk of losing two


Super Tuesday states, Arkansas and Texas.


With Ted Cruz, that evangelist ideologue leading, if Trump comes


If Cruz can't win his home state of Texas,


you can pretty much consider it game over for him.


Perhaps the curious thing is this: Donald Trump has


morphed himself from a political insider, who was cosy


with the establishment, into an unofficial defender


He tells desperate people what they want to hear,


Sadly, we are in a post-factual era, facts don't matter as much


You can say pretty much anything you want and if there


is a controversy, you create another one


It takes someone who really understands the media,


and particularly social media, to do what Trump has done.


It's amazing and more than a little frightening.


As any long-term watcher of the US election cycle will tell you,


a candidate doesn't have to believe what they say at this,


the primary stage of the race, they have to make sure there is enough


room for manoeuvre to take it to the country as a whole.


With me now are Ken Adelman, who has served in several Republican


administrations and was a close adviser to Ronald Reagan.


And Chris Henick who was an adviser to President George W Bush.


Ken Adelman, I will start with you. This man has energised a lot of


people, he has romped through the primaries, what is not like? What is


not to like is what he says. Is not pleasant strain in American history


of the know nothing strain, we saw it with Huey Long and George Wallace


and we see it from time to time and it appears to all of the worst


instincts in the American character. Hate the foreigner, unit, just have


a prejudice against individuals. Tell people how much they are


suffering and they don't even realise how much they are suffering


and it's those stupid people in Washington, the jerks who are


selling them down the river. It's kind of a modern version, or a


Democratic version, of the stab in the back we saw in World War II,


World War I. Chris Henick, presumably you don't


buy that? For people on the side of the Atlantic who may have concluded


he is a buffoon, what would you say is the substance to the man? Frankly


the supposition before yesterday was that Donald Trump had a ceiling of


roughly 30, 30 2%, but as your story just said he completely blew through


that -- 32%. From my perspective it's less about the candidate and


his voters and what they are trying to tell us. If you look at the


invisible primary where the dual issue of trade and unfair trade as


well as illegal immigration, all of the exit polls show just the


opposite. They shared national security, the economy, as well as


government spending. All of those were up around 30% in all three


states we have had, and immigration is coming in at 10% in South


Carolina, 12% in New Hampshire. A lot of this is new. To see exactly


what the social and great economic divide is in America right now, its


families under $1000 in income, they are trying to send Washington a


signal, over six out of ten voters voted for a nonpolitician, so just


the opposite is what the Republican primary voters are telling us. Chris


Henick, do you think he can have a similarly energising effect on the


right to the one that Barack Obama had in terms of getting people to


the polls who would not normally go? The only similarity I see right now


is how well he is looking in demographics. Blessed are the


educated, or whatever, he's going through all of those segmentation is


in polling and seeing how well he's doing. Somewhat similar to what


Barack Obama did in history election, a demographic and pain and


less geographic. For now, from a political science standpoint it's


pretty fascinating to see how he is running in the tables. We have a big


day next Tuesday, 567 delegates, there is still a sense in Texas,


where Texas omitted Ted Cruz is on the ballot and Marco Rubio coming up


in Florida on March 15. Both of those candidates want to have a long


run with Trump but they are let to have their advantage -- yet to have


their advantage. The Republican party has had


challenges over the recent years, the tea party and the radicalisation


of the party by the tea party. Does Trump mark a new stage in this? Is


it still going to be the same party you were serving all the years ago


in the White House if this man gets the nomination? Would you still feel


proud to call yourself a Republican? I am a Republican but I wouldn't be


practical so fake Trump republican and I think he would bust up the


Republican party and make it a know nothing party like before. Chris was


very good at telling you the issues that are coming up and what people


think, but I would make the assertion that Trump's appeal isn't


on issues, he doesn't understand any issues, as far as I can tell, except


resentment and rage. And emotional outpouring, that those guys are


really screwing us, we have to stop them and you don't know how bad you


are. You've used the phrase know nothing a couple of times. Do you


think in a Trump White House the smart folks would soon get him under


control, or do you genuinely worry what it might mean for world peace,


or the US economy, to have him in there?


I haven't spent ten seconds thinking about that because when you look at


the flow of American history over the last 75, 100 years, you realise


there are only two elections where an extremist has been nominated. Was


1964 with Harry Goldwater on the Republican side and 1968 with George


McGavin on the Democratic side. It is very rare to have an extremist


nominated. And secondly, is very rare to have an extremist


happened in those two macro instances, they got trounced, they


got absolutely demolished. Their party, the Republicans in six D4 and


Democrats in 68, just got absolutely beat. -- 64. Chris is right when you


look at the numbers and all of that, but there will be thousands of


people running this year for senators, for governors, state


representatives, mayors and older men. With Trump at the top of their


ticket they are going to be sunk as well.


We await all of those various polls with interest. Ken Adelman and Chris


Henick, thank you for joining us. Last year the scale of child sex


abuse in Rotherham was starkly laid out in an official report -


it found that at least 1,400 children had been


abused over 16 years. And the report also found police had


"regarded many child Well, today, justice began to be


served in this sorry tale. In the first trial held


since those revelations, a gang of four men and two women,


including three brothers, have been convicted of serious child


sexual abuse crimes. Alison Holt has been


following the trial. Rotherham in South Yorkshire, a town


where young lives have been destroyed by sexual exploitation,


where families have been torn apart by crimes ignored for too long. Only


with today's convictions can the full story begins to be told.


Jessica, not her real name, was one of 15 young women who gave evidence


at the trial. I first met Ash just after my 14th birthday and I was


mentally and physically and sexually abused for two macro years. He was


violent towards me, and there were times I thought he was going to kill


me. Ash is Hachette is a common who began abusing her in 1999. The court


was told he was the leader of a violent criminal gang dealing in


drugs and girls and he operated with his brothers. Their uncle was


convicted of conspiracy to rape. They were very powerful for a long


time. They had connections within the police, within the council, they


totally dominated Rotherham. One of the pimping networks being


highlighted by this Leeds charity in the early to thousands was the same


Phil Mack. The three brothers threatened anyone who got in their


way. Threats to the girl, if you don't do what I tell you I will


break your mum and burn your house, threats to families have often


happened. Our worker who was there had threats against her, they would


phone of the family and they would say they know that woman is there


again and we have seen her car. The information the parents support


worker collected about the men and their associates was passed to the


police. She was forever collecting phone numbers, car registration


numbers, locations of where things happened. She knew about the use of


drugs. And this was recorded, and this was handed over, but actually


elicited virtually no response. Local headlines in 2003 showed the


brothers had convictions for drugs, violence and intimidation. And


documents obtained by the BBC detailed a high risk conference


about Asher same two years before that. The probation service said he


had been actively involved in befriending and targeting young


teenage girls and had possible links to child prostitution in Rotherham.


Minutes from a multi-agency meeting described him as representing a high


risk of harm to the public. This document describes Ash Hussein is a


classic pimping controls young girls and also says the police are making


no ongoing checks and that there is no hard evidence of any offence for


them to pursue. I think we need to have a catch-up this afternoon. At


that time Doug Whiteman and Jayne Senior worked at the risky business


youth project in Rotherham. The team was also pulling together


information about the sames which was also going to the police. We had


been collecting information since 1999. Lots of information. Enough


information for them to have been arrested? I believe so, yes. Or at


least investigated. A report setting out the links between more than 50


girls in Rotherham and the brothers were sent to the police and council


in 2002. It was written by Adele Gladman. She was safeguarding issues


for a number of years and I don't think I've ever in counted the


number of sadism and torture and sheer cruelty that we were


encountering. Against children. They were being allowed to do it


completely unchallenged summer and I think that definitely gave them a


feeling of invincibility. The report was suppressed. Jim


Stevens also raised the issue directly with the authorities.


Again, there was no real action. For these men to be taken off the


streets at last will send out a very, very important message to


other potential perpetrators because there was a feeling up until


recently that the Hussains and other groups of perpetrators in Rotherham


were untouchable. They were raped by multiple perpetrators... In 2014, a


report by Professor Alexis Jay estimated more than 1,400 children


had been sexually exploited in Rotherham over 16 years. Her report


said because gangs like the Hussains were of Pakistani origin and most of


the victims were white, the authorities shied away from the


issue. Do you think the Pakistani community


has a problem? A distant relative of the Hussains


thinks straight-talking is what is needed. These sort of men have a


very negative and, in many cases, racist attitude towards white young


girls. They view them as worthless, they view them as commodities that


can be traded and that they can be abused in this abhorrent sort of


way. For too long, as a society, as a Pakistani community, we have


turned a blind eye to these sorts of crimes. Now across Rotherham,


police, the council and local communities say they are working


together. There are ongoing investigations into a number of


South Yorkshire Police officers, the force says it wouldn't be


appropriate to comment on them, but the area's Police and Crime


Commissioner believes generally attitudes have changed. That older


perception, which is where it all went wrong, that these were young


people who were out of control, wouldn't listen to authority, asking


for it, slags, slappers, we have heard all that in the past.


Hopefully, that is all now gone and the victims now are seen as victims


and as children. And today's convictions couldn't be more


important for the girls who have survived the abuse and those who


have supported them. Everybody needs to recognise the signs of abuse and


act on it, and deal with victims in a proper way. These are people's


lives. It is a day of justice. Today is the day that the world knows that


they were always telling the truth. They are going to be believed, that


what they said years ago was happening to them, it happened.


That's the message that many in Rotherham needed to help them


believe that there is real change. Joining me now is Sarah Champion,


MP for Rotherham, and Nazir Afzal, former lead on child sexual abuse


and Chief Crown Prosecutor Nazir Afzal, if I could start with


you? What is the single biggest lesson that you draw from this case?


There are so many lessons. We have lesson that you draw from this case?


poor leadership, we have poor processes, we have the active


discouragement of children, preventing them from reporting. We


have pretty much everybody responsible for safeguarding let


them down. That was because of the culture that existed at the time,


namely that children who came from troubled or chaotic backgrounds


wouldn't be believed, or a jury wouldn't believe them. I recognised


that when I dealt with Rochdale. If we didn't act upon the information


they provided, they would be subjected to abuse for decades and


what we found in Rotherham is that these, this abuse has been going on


for 20 or 30 years and people have been turning a blind eye. Was


ethnicity a factor in that, can I ask you? I have given evidence to


Parliament, I have said it many times, and I will say it again. The


ethnicity of the perpetrators is an issue here. As Mohammed said in the


report. Many people haven't been talking about it because of


political correctness or because they don't want to give the


far-right more ammunition. These men were getting away with it because


they thought they could, because people were not listening to these


young girls when they were talking about the abuse they were suffering.


There should be no excuse at all for allowing it to happen. There can be


no excuse. The reality is, however, that today there are children being


abused up-and-down the country. Sarah Champion, on that point, about


the political correctness going mad, how significant a barrier was that,


do you think, in getting to grips with the full horror of what had


been going on here? For me, I can't comprehend it. These are child


abusers, I don't care what colour they are, what race they are. I


don't understand why the people who were paid to protect those children


didn't see it in that way. I know that both from the two independent


reports, the Jay report, and the Casey report, they both said that


was a factor. I don't understand in today's society, when children are


being abused, why being embarrassed that you might cause someone a


"Pakistani abuser" rather than a "child abuser" that that is a factor


now. We have to address that. Why did it take so long to build


prosecutable cases in this matter? I mean, I left the Service when


Rotherham was about to get to the point of prosecution. Certainly,


Rochdale is a good example. The others I dealt with after Rochdale.


It was a view that this was too difficult. These young girls would


never be believed by a jury, that they may not even come to court.


That was nonsense. It was certainly the prevailing view that it was too


difficult, when it was very easy, the legal system, courts,


prosecutors, police officers, can do everything they can to make that


experience better for the witnesses. We have learnt that now. That wasn't


the case before 2011/12. And now we have a situation where I would hope


that you will get many more of these successful prosecutions. Certainly,


people just seem to think it was too difficult to do and they didn't do


it. Successful prosecutions, clearly, send a message. In terms of


your community, there are 26 officers who have been served with


notice of potential prosecutions, how do you deal with that if you


like, the clearing up of what's emerged from this case? Presumably,


many of these people still are functioning in the police and other


parts of the social services? That's the big problem that we need to


address now. (A), how come for so long, for decades, when these girls


were desperately trying to get their cases heard were they ignored? How


do we now make sure that when people want to come forward, they have


trust in the police, they have trust in the council, that they will be


listened to. And to be honest, until the IPCC does its investigation,


makes its findings and rules for or against some of the officers that


are being investigated at the moment, I don't know how people can


have that faith, so I urge them to hurry up and let's draw a line under


this and move forward. I want to ask you both about moving forward, about


the future. Cuts in policing, CPS, do you think this blunts or inhibits


the effort to stop this happening again, or is it just not material in


this case? Also cuts to local authorities. The services that we


are looking forward to get justice and to prevent and protect our most


vulnerable are working within a limited resource at the moment.


People are having to make choices. They have to protect our most


vulnerable. Can I ask you on that, does this show the system worked or


is it in jeopardy? The system is working and getting better.


Mandatory reporting is essential. I delivered a 30% cut in my budget.


The numbers of the prosecutions we were bringing were increasing. You


can do it if you work together. Thank you both very much. Back to


that migration story. Are the wheels starting


to come off Shengen - that agreement of free movement


between member states? Tonight, European cohesion


is looking increasingly fragile as the various countries within it


grapple with how to deal Earlier, Hungary's prime minister


offered his country a referendum on whether the EU should be able


to impose a migrant quota upon them. In Vienna talks currently


were attempting to coordinate border And on the ground, border guards


are patrolling the frontier between Belgium and France -


an almost forgotten sight Gabriel Gatehouse has been


monitoring the developments from Dunkirk to Calais and joins us


live from there now. There were extraordinary scenes at


the borders of Europe today and in capitals, in Greece, on the


Greek-Macedonian border, we saw migrants holding babies, blocking


motorways, demanding access to Central Europe. The Greek Migration


Minister said there was a mini humanitarian crisis going on in his


country. The Austrians unilaterally deciding to restrict migration


heavily along with some of their Balkan neighbours, at a meeting to


which Greece wasn't even invited, the country that is struggling under


the largest number of migrants. Austria and Germany trading


accusations and now here, on the north-west corner of Europe, we have


got the Belgians patrolling their border with France. The border isn't


closed but this certainly isn't Schengen. Mark, the bonds that hold


Europe together are being strained by this issue of migration. Quickly,


you have been among the people in the camps for the past couple of


days, do they think they will be imminently pushed out of there? What


is their mood? They do. We can see them flitting across the road here


as I speak, police behind me, shining flash lights into the


bushes, the French are saying seek asylum here, go to registered asylum


centres. They don't want to do that. They are looking for impromptu


settlements, and there is another one near Dunkirk, another Jungle, if


you like, and I spent the day there. If you thought the Calais Jungle


looked grim, try this. This site is on the outskirts of Dunkirk. People


live here, thousands of them. And soon, there could be many more. 25


miles down the coast from here, the residents of the Jungle are waiting


for a magistrate to decide their fate. It seems likely that that camp


will eventually be bulldozed. And then what? Quite a lot - in October


of last year, there were 400 people on the site. There are now something


in the region of 3,000. I don't know what happened in court


yesterday. No decision.


There was no decision. It will probably come in next 48


hours. When it does, we don't know where people expect such a large


number of refugees to go. At the moment, all of those people share 42


toilets between them. That is about one toilet for every 70 people.


Toilets that often malfunction, sewage seeping out into the mud.


No good. No good, yeah. Somebody else put it to me a little earlier,


they said compared to this place, Calais looks like a Butlin's holiday


camp. The reality is, that when the Jungle getting closed, most of those


people will probably end up here, or places like this.


Amid the squalor, there is a spirit of resilience, a new Dunkirk spirit,


you might call it, minus, of course, the one crucial element - the


flotilla of boats to take people across the Channel.


As any parent knows, getting your kids to put their shoes on can be a


struggle. But when your home is a tiny patch of tent, floating on a


sea of mud, well... These girls' father used to be a policeman in


northern Iraq. We are looking for a normal life. I think England is


good. People there respect you. For me, it is too late. I'm about


38-years-old, but I am looking for a life for my children. What about


trance? -- France? France, you see. There is nothing here. That is life.


Nothing. Ali is an Iraqi Kurdistan under


Saddam Hussein he fled to the UK but after the invasion Ali went back


home full of hope for the future. It's a decision he bitterly regrets


now as his country tears itself apart. How are you going to get to


England? With two small children? You have to go and try. Your hide


the children in the truck? I tried to or three times but the ship


control arrested me. It is not dangerous? It is too dangerous, it


is dangerous. Are you worried for your daughters? Like I told you in


the sea when we came to the place from Turkey you see people die.


Maybe you will die, maybe you will not die, but if you stay in your


country you will die, that is why you run, to have the chance. A short


drive up the coast lies Belgium. In anticipation of more people on the


move Brussels has introduced controls on the French border. The


police are checking trucks and vans, any migrants are sent back to


France. This may not look like much of a border post, but the fact that


these guys are here at all tells you something, and that is that when it


comes to the issues of migrants and refugees it's not co-operation


that's at the forefront everyone's mind in Europe, it's every country


for its self. The medical charity MSF are building a new mud free camp


just up the road, where they hope to rehouse most of the residents of the


Dunkirk Swamp but there will not be room for the overspill from a


bulldozed Jungle. The police are trying to discourage any further


expansion of the makeshift camp at Grande-Synthe. Anyone coming in is


searched, building materials are confiscated, but they are fighting a


losing battle. The network of volunteers who run this camp know


what is coming and so they are preparing, using branches and


pallets and cable ties, whatever they can get their hands on. This is


probably not what the developers had in mind when they advertised their


eco-quarter. It is certainly not what Europe's leaders in Visic when


they signed the Schengen agreement. Gabriel Gatehouse in the Jungle. --


envisaged. Joining me now is Damian Green,


former Minister of State for Immigration and Minister


for Policing, Criminal Justice Very well qualified to discuss the


Jungle issue. You have the Conservative Party actively talking


about the end of ever closer union as a theoretical proposition, at its


ending as we watch in reality across Europe. Ever closer union was a


thrust towards a United States of Europe which Britain never signed up


to and explicitly thanks to David Cameron is now out of. There is


clearly a crisis in the Schengen system, and the ability of other


countries, we have never joined it, we are an island and we've always


wanted to have border posts so we have control of our own borders and


others didn't. There are clearly risks in that. The fact of this


unprecedented refugee crisis, unprecedented since the Second World


War, has put on the strains you have seen in those films. Everybody is


going their own way, the Austrians hosted a meeting saying they will


put a cap on the number of asylum seekers they will take and knock on


down the line to Greece which people are talking about sealing off. This


is everyone in Europe going their own way, the subsidiarity of the


most muscular and unpredicted kind, isn't it? And not in an organised


way. The problem is the countries inside Schengen haven't been able to


agree a strategy on this. To some extent, and it's not easy it is


difficult to blame people when they are faced with, as I say, this


unprecedented crisis. But I think more of them should frankly have


taken a lead from Britain, where our policy has been to pour money into


the areas immediately around Syria, the countries immediately around


Syria, and actually try and make conditions as good as possible there


so that people don't feel compelled to make this very dangerous sea


journey, that may end up in Belgium or France. One other aspect in this


in the way that Britain and the referendum does or does not


interlock with this is the question of contagion. People in Brussels


have talked about this for the past year or two. They are concerned that


other countries if Britain had a referendum would in some way see


this as a starting gun. Lo and behold today we have Viktor Orban,


the Hungarian Prime Minister, saying they are going to have a referendum


on whether or not to take quotas in their country and other countries,


even the Netherlands are talking about it possible more widely drawn


agenda. It is having an effect, the British example, across Europe.


Having a referendum on a specific policy area is not at all and are


just. But the Dutch. I don't think the Dutch government is talking


about it yet. I think the root of it needs to be that people who are in


the Schengen system doesn't include us if they want to survive they will


have to act collectively and if not they will invoke emergency measures


in many countries and it will probably be suspended. The big Read


a cross for us is what is happening in the camps that we saw and it


seems to me because we have border controls in Calais, our border is


much better protected than it would be if we had our border back in


Dover, which it was only 15 years ago. There is no given that we have


border controls in Calais. In that context do you agree with the Prime


Minister when he said would find thousands of people potentially


coming overnight if Britain to leave? Or was that just


scaremongering? We could do, we signed the treaty with France as two


member states of the European Union, two friendly countries that work


together very well in northern France in trying to control this


very difficult situation, particularly people trying to get on


trucks. We spend money on security and so on. Who benefits most from


that? We do. The French ambassador was on this programme is bad Wedge


was asked what France gets from this she struggled to say what the


benefits were for France. It seems they would be enormous pressure on


France if Britain pulled out of the European Union to say, you know


what, if the Brits want to get out of Europe they can have their own


border controls back. A lot of those people would find it easier to get


to Britain if we didn't have border controls in


to Britain if we didn't have border get a Dover and they would have the


right to claim asylum here. Damian Green, thank you. One thing


is for sure the question of border controls and the future of Schengen


is bound to be with us for months to come.


You're a feminist or a masochist - so says Gloria Steinem,


one of the most influential - and outspoken - feminists over


She's never shied away from controversy, dedicating her


most recent book, My Life On The Road to the man


of 22, allowing her to live a life of activism.


Emily Maitlis sat down to talk to her.


Do you think when you step back the feminist movement is in good health?


Yes, it is in good health. For instance, to speak for my country it


is a major IT movement, it is no longer 20 crazy ladies, which is


what we were. In the beginning


we were regarded as very odd. Now all of the fundamental issues,


of equality, including reproductive issues,


are majority issues. And that's true in many, if not


most, countries. And we are a global movement. We are very connected with


each other across boundaries. How do you critique


of modern feminism now? When you look at the, if you like,


the new role models, is Beyonce a good role


model for young women? She's a fine role model for anybody.


She's a fine role model for me. It's about supporting


each other in what we do best and what our dreams are,


and how we feel about women It's not about sitting around


and criticising who is a proper Does it become, therefore,


harder for you to criticise women because you think that


that is a betrayal of feminism? No, it's perfectly easy


for me to say Sarah Margaret Thatcher


was a disaster. You know, people were


still putting milk at her funeral because she cut off


the milk for children. The point is not to get


a job for one woman, it's to make life


better for women and And when you look at, for example,


choosing a presidential nominee, does that strike


you as something that should be Of course it's a feminist issue,


regardless of who it is. If they were Martians it


would be a feminist issue, because it depends


on their position on issues. Do you think that


Hillary Clinton is in Probably.


It's deep. We're mostly raised


by women and we associate And I think that is


especially hard for many men who feel regressed


when they see a powerful woman. They haven't seen


one since they were So, there is a lot of deep


feeling that it's just not right somehow, that it's


against the feminine-masculine emotional because we are


associated with childhood. Hillary Clinton has undergone


more concentrated hatred on campus when she ran for President


before there were young white men wearing T-shirts that said "Too bad


OJ didn't marry Hillary." But we've seen recently


the older feminists getting into trouble, Germaine Greer


on the transgender question. Can a man who undergoes a biological


change ever really call And her sense that actually


it was about cultural conditioning Where do you stand


on the whole issue? If you want to define yourself


and I want to define myself we have to let other


people define themselves. It is just clear that


we have to do that. So, Caitlyn Jenner,


to all intents and purposes, She is able to define


herself, just as I am. It's not a simple


question for onlookers. For instance, we had a well


reported case of a woman, a very accomplished woman,


who considered herself to be Because she had African-American


siblings, I think, and had been living as an African-American


and growing up, and there was a lot of discomfort around that


on the part of African-Americans. So I can understand


there is discomfort, but the rock bottom


is we have to accept Evan's here tomorrow -


until then, goodnight.


The French threaten to drive migrants out of Calais. Where will they go? Are open borders dead? Can anyone now stop Donald Trump? Feminist legend Gloria Steinem on Hillary Clinton. Who failed in Rotherham and why?

With Mark Urban.

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