24/02/2016 Newsnight

The French threaten to drive out the migrants from their huge encampment

at Calais. Where will they go? If other EU countries

won't allow these people in, does that mean the European

principle of open borders This Conservative former

Police Minister says it's all proof As the Rotherham abuse scandal

ends in six convictions, are the authorities also

guilty of not having taken For the survivors,

it's a day of justice. Today is the day that the world

knows that they were always We'll ask the prosecutor

and the local MP who was at fault. Also tonight, Donald

Trump keeps winning. We won with poorly-educated -

I love the poorly-educated. Can anything stop him,

the ultimate outsider, from capturing the Republican

party nomination? And what does American

feminist Gloria Steinem make Do you think that Hillary Clinton

is in trouble with this nomination? I mean, we are mostly raised

by women and we associate And I think that is especially hard

for many men. On the one hand, it's just

one contest of many - the primaries of the American

presidential election On the other hand,

it is perhaps the moment. The moment at which all

the doubters, all the commentators and, yes, America itself,

is starting to accept that Donald Trump may have just landed

himself in pole position to be the definitive Republican

Presidential nominee. Has he seen off all of his

contenders? Not quite but it's becoming increasingly hard to see

how it could be anyone but him. Here is Emily Maitlis.

He was meant to be the noisy one, the candidate that everyone loved

to talk about, that then went quietly

We won with poorly-educated - I love the poorly-educated!

Nevada makes three wins in a row for Donald Trump,

after New Hampshire and South Carolina.

He won last night by a margin of 22%, a whopping 45.9%

And whilst the Republican establishment have been waiting

for him to disappear in a puff of smoke,

many are starting to understand he's now looking like he may take

the race all the way to the White House.

At this point, it will be surprising if anybody but Trump wins more

He has a fair to good shot in almost every state that is voting.

He is not likely to win them all, but he is likely to win

So, Super Tuesday could be the next in his string of victories.

In second and third place were Marco Rubio,

the Florida senator on 24%, and the Texas senator,

This, you see, is where things get confusing.

The field may have narrowed, there is no longer a Jeb

Bush in the race or a Chris Christie, but their votes don't

appear to be going to more a mainstream candidate.

They are, in other words, tussling with each other,

And, increasingly, it is not just about sentiment or vocal support,

it is about the maths and that is where things get tricky.

Trump has the lion's share of delegates from the first four

On Super Tuesday the 11 states in play will divide those delegates

Trump is believed to only be at risk of losing two

Super Tuesday states, Arkansas and Texas.

With Ted Cruz, that evangelist ideologue leading, if Trump comes

If Cruz can't win his home state of Texas,

you can pretty much consider it game over for him.

Perhaps the curious thing is this: Donald Trump has

morphed himself from a political insider, who was cosy

with the establishment, into an unofficial defender

He tells desperate people what they want to hear,

Sadly, we are in a post-factual era, facts don't matter as much

You can say pretty much anything you want and if there

is a controversy, you create another one

It takes someone who really understands the media,

and particularly social media, to do what Trump has done.

It's amazing and more than a little frightening.

As any long-term watcher of the US election cycle will tell you,

a candidate doesn't have to believe what they say at this,

the primary stage of the race, they have to make sure there is enough

room for manoeuvre to take it to the country as a whole.

With me now are Ken Adelman, who has served in several Republican

administrations and was a close adviser to Ronald Reagan.

And Chris Henick who was an adviser to President George W Bush.

Ken Adelman, I will start with you. This man has energised a lot of

people, he has romped through the primaries, what is not like? What is

not to like is what he says. Is not pleasant strain in American history

of the know nothing strain, we saw it with Huey Long and George Wallace

and we see it from time to time and it appears to all of the worst

instincts in the American character. Hate the foreigner, unit, just have

a prejudice against individuals. Tell people how much they are

suffering and they don't even realise how much they are suffering

and it's those stupid people in Washington, the jerks who are

selling them down the river. It's kind of a modern version, or a

Democratic version, of the stab in the back we saw in World War II,

World War I. Chris Henick, presumably you don't

buy that? For people on the side of the Atlantic who may have concluded

he is a buffoon, what would you say is the substance to the man? Frankly

the supposition before yesterday was that Donald Trump had a ceiling of

roughly 30, 30 2%, but as your story just said he completely blew through

that -- 32%. From my perspective it's less about the candidate and

his voters and what they are trying to tell us. If you look at the

invisible primary where the dual issue of trade and unfair trade as

well as illegal immigration, all of the exit polls show just the

opposite. They shared national security, the economy, as well as

government spending. All of those were up around 30% in all three

states we have had, and immigration is coming in at 10% in South

Carolina, 12% in New Hampshire. A lot of this is new. To see exactly

what the social and great economic divide is in America right now, its

families under $1000 in income, they are trying to send Washington a

signal, over six out of ten voters voted for a nonpolitician, so just

the opposite is what the Republican primary voters are telling us. Chris

Henick, do you think he can have a similarly energising effect on the

right to the one that Barack Obama had in terms of getting people to

the polls who would not normally go? The only similarity I see right now

is how well he is looking in demographics. Blessed are the

educated, or whatever, he's going through all of those segmentation is

in polling and seeing how well he's doing. Somewhat similar to what

Barack Obama did in history election, a demographic and pain and

less geographic. For now, from a political science standpoint it's

pretty fascinating to see how he is running in the tables. We have a big

day next Tuesday, 567 delegates, there is still a sense in Texas,

where Texas omitted Ted Cruz is on the ballot and Marco Rubio coming up

in Florida on March 15. Both of those candidates want to have a long

run with Trump but they are let to have their advantage -- yet to have

their advantage. The Republican party has had

challenges over the recent years, the tea party and the radicalisation

of the party by the tea party. Does Trump mark a new stage in this? Is

it still going to be the same party you were serving all the years ago

in the White House if this man gets the nomination? Would you still feel

proud to call yourself a Republican? I am a Republican but I wouldn't be

practical so fake Trump republican and I think he would bust up the

Republican party and make it a know nothing party like before. Chris was

very good at telling you the issues that are coming up and what people

think, but I would make the assertion that Trump's appeal isn't

on issues, he doesn't understand any issues, as far as I can tell, except

resentment and rage. And emotional outpouring, that those guys are

really screwing us, we have to stop them and you don't know how bad you

are. You've used the phrase know nothing a couple of times. Do you

think in a Trump White House the smart folks would soon get him under

control, or do you genuinely worry what it might mean for world peace,

or the US economy, to have him in there?

I haven't spent ten seconds thinking about that because when you look at

the flow of American history over the last 75, 100 years, you realise

there are only two elections where an extremist has been nominated. Was

1964 with Harry Goldwater on the Republican side and 1968 with George

McGavin on the Democratic side. It is very rare to have an extremist

nominated. And secondly, is very rare to have an extremist

happened in those two macro instances, they got trounced, they

got absolutely demolished. Their party, the Republicans in six D4 and

Democrats in 68, just got absolutely beat. -- 64. Chris is right when you

look at the numbers and all of that, but there will be thousands of

people running this year for senators, for governors, state

representatives, mayors and older men. With Trump at the top of their

ticket they are going to be sunk as well.

We await all of those various polls with interest. Ken Adelman and Chris

Henick, thank you for joining us. Last year the scale of child sex

abuse in Rotherham was starkly laid out in an official report -

it found that at least 1,400 children had been

abused over 16 years. And the report also found police had

"regarded many child Well, today, justice began to be

served in this sorry tale. In the first trial held

since those revelations, a gang of four men and two women,

including three brothers, have been convicted of serious child

sexual abuse crimes. Alison Holt has been

following the trial. Rotherham in South Yorkshire, a town

where young lives have been destroyed by sexual exploitation,

where families have been torn apart by crimes ignored for too long. Only

with today's convictions can the full story begins to be told.

Jessica, not her real name, was one of 15 young women who gave evidence

at the trial. I first met Ash just after my 14th birthday and I was

mentally and physically and sexually abused for two macro years. He was

violent towards me, and there were times I thought he was going to kill

me. Ash is Hachette is a common who began abusing her in 1999. The court

was told he was the leader of a violent criminal gang dealing in

drugs and girls and he operated with his brothers. Their uncle was

convicted of conspiracy to rape. They were very powerful for a long

time. They had connections within the police, within the council, they

totally dominated Rotherham. One of the pimping networks being

highlighted by this Leeds charity in the early to thousands was the same

Phil Mack. The three brothers threatened anyone who got in their

way. Threats to the girl, if you don't do what I tell you I will

break your mum and burn your house, threats to families have often

happened. Our worker who was there had threats against her, they would

phone of the family and they would say they know that woman is there

again and we have seen her car. The information the parents support

worker collected about the men and their associates was passed to the

police. She was forever collecting phone numbers, car registration

numbers, locations of where things happened. She knew about the use of

drugs. And this was recorded, and this was handed over, but actually

elicited virtually no response. Local headlines in 2003 showed the

brothers had convictions for drugs, violence and intimidation. And

documents obtained by the BBC detailed a high risk conference

about Asher same two years before that. The probation service said he

had been actively involved in befriending and targeting young

teenage girls and had possible links to child prostitution in Rotherham.

Minutes from a multi-agency meeting described him as representing a high

risk of harm to the public. This document describes Ash Hussein is a

classic pimping controls young girls and also says the police are making

no ongoing checks and that there is no hard evidence of any offence for

them to pursue. I think we need to have a catch-up this afternoon. At

that time Doug Whiteman and Jayne Senior worked at the risky business

youth project in Rotherham. The team was also pulling together

information about the sames which was also going to the police. We had

been collecting information since 1999. Lots of information. Enough

information for them to have been arrested? I believe so, yes. Or at

least investigated. A report setting out the links between more than 50

girls in Rotherham and the brothers were sent to the police and council

in 2002. It was written by Adele Gladman. She was safeguarding issues

for a number of years and I don't think I've ever in counted the

number of sadism and torture and sheer cruelty that we were

encountering. Against children. They were being allowed to do it

completely unchallenged summer and I think that definitely gave them a

feeling of invincibility. The report was suppressed. Jim

Stevens also raised the issue directly with the authorities.

Again, there was no real action. For these men to be taken off the

streets at last will send out a very, very important message to

other potential perpetrators because there was a feeling up until

recently that the Hussains and other groups of perpetrators in Rotherham

were untouchable. They were raped by multiple perpetrators... In 2014, a

report by Professor Alexis Jay estimated more than 1,400 children

had been sexually exploited in Rotherham over 16 years. Her report

said because gangs like the Hussains were of Pakistani origin and most of

the victims were white, the authorities shied away from the

issue. Do you think the Pakistani community

has a problem? A distant relative of the Hussains

thinks straight-talking is what is needed. These sort of men have a

very negative and, in many cases, racist attitude towards white young

girls. They view them as worthless, they view them as commodities that

can be traded and that they can be abused in this abhorrent sort of

way. For too long, as a society, as a Pakistani community, we have

turned a blind eye to these sorts of crimes. Now across Rotherham,

police, the council and local communities say they are working

together. There are ongoing investigations into a number of

South Yorkshire Police officers, the force says it wouldn't be

appropriate to comment on them, but the area's Police and Crime

Commissioner believes generally attitudes have changed. That older

perception, which is where it all went wrong, that these were young

people who were out of control, wouldn't listen to authority, asking

for it, slags, slappers, we have heard all that in the past.

Hopefully, that is all now gone and the victims now are seen as victims

and as children. And today's convictions couldn't be more

important for the girls who have survived the abuse and those who

have supported them. Everybody needs to recognise the signs of abuse and

act on it, and deal with victims in a proper way. These are people's

lives. It is a day of justice. Today is the day that the world knows that

they were always telling the truth. They are going to be believed, that

what they said years ago was happening to them, it happened.

That's the message that many in Rotherham needed to help them

believe that there is real change. Joining me now is Sarah Champion,

MP for Rotherham, and Nazir Afzal, former lead on child sexual abuse

and Chief Crown Prosecutor Nazir Afzal, if I could start with

you? What is the single biggest lesson that you draw from this case?

There are so many lessons. We have lesson that you draw from this case?

poor leadership, we have poor processes, we have the active

discouragement of children, preventing them from reporting. We

have pretty much everybody responsible for safeguarding let

them down. That was because of the culture that existed at the time,

namely that children who came from troubled or chaotic backgrounds

wouldn't be believed, or a jury wouldn't believe them. I recognised

that when I dealt with Rochdale. If we didn't act upon the information

they provided, they would be subjected to abuse for decades and

what we found in Rotherham is that these, this abuse has been going on

for 20 or 30 years and people have been turning a blind eye. Was

ethnicity a factor in that, can I ask you? I have given evidence to

Parliament, I have said it many times, and I will say it again. The

ethnicity of the perpetrators is an issue here. As Mohammed said in the

report. Many people haven't been talking about it because of

political correctness or because they don't want to give the

far-right more ammunition. These men were getting away with it because

they thought they could, because people were not listening to these

young girls when they were talking about the abuse they were suffering.

There should be no excuse at all for allowing it to happen. There can be

no excuse. The reality is, however, that today there are children being

abused up-and-down the country. Sarah Champion, on that point, about

the political correctness going mad, how significant a barrier was that,

do you think, in getting to grips with the full horror of what had

been going on here? For me, I can't comprehend it. These are child

abusers, I don't care what colour they are, what race they are. I

don't understand why the people who were paid to protect those children

didn't see it in that way. I know that both from the two independent

reports, the Jay report, and the Casey report, they both said that

was a factor. I don't understand in today's society, when children are

being abused, why being embarrassed that you might cause someone a

"Pakistani abuser" rather than a "child abuser" that that is a factor

now. We have to address that. Why did it take so long to build

prosecutable cases in this matter? I mean, I left the Service when

Rotherham was about to get to the point of prosecution. Certainly,

Rochdale is a good example. The others I dealt with after Rochdale.

It was a view that this was too difficult. These young girls would

never be believed by a jury, that they may not even come to court.

That was nonsense. It was certainly the prevailing view that it was too

difficult, when it was very easy, the legal system, courts,

prosecutors, police officers, can do everything they can to make that

experience better for the witnesses. We have learnt that now. That wasn't

the case before 2011/12. And now we have a situation where I would hope

that you will get many more of these successful prosecutions. Certainly,

people just seem to think it was too difficult to do and they didn't do

it. Successful prosecutions, clearly, send a message. In terms of

your community, there are 26 officers who have been served with

notice of potential prosecutions, how do you deal with that if you

like, the clearing up of what's emerged from this case? Presumably,

many of these people still are functioning in the police and other

parts of the social services? That's the big problem that we need to

address now. (A), how come for so long, for decades, when these girls

were desperately trying to get their cases heard were they ignored? How

do we now make sure that when people want to come forward, they have

trust in the police, they have trust in the council, that they will be

listened to. And to be honest, until the IPCC does its investigation,

makes its findings and rules for or against some of the officers that

are being investigated at the moment, I don't know how people can

have that faith, so I urge them to hurry up and let's draw a line under

this and move forward. I want to ask you both about moving forward, about

the future. Cuts in policing, CPS, do you think this blunts or inhibits

the effort to stop this happening again, or is it just not material in

this case? Also cuts to local authorities. The services that we

are looking forward to get justice and to prevent and protect our most

vulnerable are working within a limited resource at the moment.

People are having to make choices. They have to protect our most

vulnerable. Can I ask you on that, does this show the system worked or

is it in jeopardy? The system is working and getting better.

Mandatory reporting is essential. I delivered a 30% cut in my budget.

The numbers of the prosecutions we were bringing were increasing. You

can do it if you work together. Thank you both very much. Back to

that migration story. Are the wheels starting

to come off Shengen - that agreement of free movement

between member states? Tonight, European cohesion

is looking increasingly fragile as the various countries within it

grapple with how to deal Earlier, Hungary's prime minister

offered his country a referendum on whether the EU should be able

to impose a migrant quota upon them. In Vienna talks currently

were attempting to coordinate border And on the ground, border guards

are patrolling the frontier between Belgium and France -

an almost forgotten sight Gabriel Gatehouse has been

monitoring the developments from Dunkirk to Calais and joins us

live from there now. There were extraordinary scenes at

the borders of Europe today and in capitals, in Greece, on the

Greek-Macedonian border, we saw migrants holding babies, blocking

motorways, demanding access to Central Europe. The Greek Migration

Minister said there was a mini humanitarian crisis going on in his

country. The Austrians unilaterally deciding to restrict migration

heavily along with some of their Balkan neighbours, at a meeting to

which Greece wasn't even invited, the country that is struggling under

the largest number of migrants. Austria and Germany trading

accusations and now here, on the north-west corner of Europe, we have

got the Belgians patrolling their border with France. The border isn't

closed but this certainly isn't Schengen. Mark, the bonds that hold

Europe together are being strained by this issue of migration. Quickly,

you have been among the people in the camps for the past couple of

days, do they think they will be imminently pushed out of there? What

is their mood? They do. We can see them flitting across the road here

as I speak, police behind me, shining flash lights into the

bushes, the French are saying seek asylum here, go to registered asylum

centres. They don't want to do that. They are looking for impromptu

settlements, and there is another one near Dunkirk, another Jungle, if

you like, and I spent the day there. If you thought the Calais Jungle

looked grim, try this. This site is on the outskirts of Dunkirk. People

live here, thousands of them. And soon, there could be many more. 25

miles down the coast from here, the residents of the Jungle are waiting

for a magistrate to decide their fate. It seems likely that that camp

will eventually be bulldozed. And then what? Quite a lot - in October

of last year, there were 400 people on the site. There are now something

in the region of 3,000. I don't know what happened in court

yesterday. No decision.

There was no decision. It will probably come in next 48

hours. When it does, we don't know where people expect such a large

number of refugees to go. At the moment, all of those people share 42

toilets between them. That is about one toilet for every 70 people.

Toilets that often malfunction, sewage seeping out into the mud.

No good. No good, yeah. Somebody else put it to me a little earlier,

they said compared to this place, Calais looks like a Butlin's holiday

camp. The reality is, that when the Jungle getting closed, most of those

people will probably end up here, or places like this.

Amid the squalor, there is a spirit of resilience, a new Dunkirk spirit,

you might call it, minus, of course, the one crucial element - the

flotilla of boats to take people across the Channel.

As any parent knows, getting your kids to put their shoes on can be a

struggle. But when your home is a tiny patch of tent, floating on a

sea of mud, well... These girls' father used to be a policeman in

northern Iraq. We are looking for a normal life. I think England is

good. People there respect you. For me, it is too late. I'm about

38-years-old, but I am looking for a life for my children. What about

trance? -- France? France, you see. There is nothing here. That is life.

Nothing. Ali is an Iraqi Kurdistan under

Saddam Hussein he fled to the UK but after the invasion Ali went back

home full of hope for the future. It's a decision he bitterly regrets

now as his country tears itself apart. How are you going to get to

England? With two small children? You have to go and try. Your hide

the children in the truck? I tried to or three times but the ship

control arrested me. It is not dangerous? It is too dangerous, it

is dangerous. Are you worried for your daughters? Like I told you in

the sea when we came to the place from Turkey you see people die.

Maybe you will die, maybe you will not die, but if you stay in your

country you will die, that is why you run, to have the chance. A short

drive up the coast lies Belgium. In anticipation of more people on the

move Brussels has introduced controls on the French border. The

police are checking trucks and vans, any migrants are sent back to

France. This may not look like much of a border post, but the fact that

these guys are here at all tells you something, and that is that when it

comes to the issues of migrants and refugees it's not co-operation

that's at the forefront everyone's mind in Europe, it's every country

for its self. The medical charity MSF are building a new mud free camp

just up the road, where they hope to rehouse most of the residents of the

Dunkirk Swamp but there will not be room for the overspill from a

bulldozed Jungle. The police are trying to discourage any further

expansion of the makeshift camp at Grande-Synthe. Anyone coming in is

searched, building materials are confiscated, but they are fighting a

losing battle. The network of volunteers who run this camp know

what is coming and so they are preparing, using branches and

pallets and cable ties, whatever they can get their hands on. This is

probably not what the developers had in mind when they advertised their

eco-quarter. It is certainly not what Europe's leaders in Visic when

they signed the Schengen agreement. Gabriel Gatehouse in the Jungle. --

envisaged. Joining me now is Damian Green,

former Minister of State for Immigration and Minister

for Policing, Criminal Justice Very well qualified to discuss the

Jungle issue. You have the Conservative Party actively talking

about the end of ever closer union as a theoretical proposition, at its

ending as we watch in reality across Europe. Ever closer union was a

thrust towards a United States of Europe which Britain never signed up

to and explicitly thanks to David Cameron is now out of. There is

clearly a crisis in the Schengen system, and the ability of other

countries, we have never joined it, we are an island and we've always

wanted to have border posts so we have control of our own borders and

others didn't. There are clearly risks in that. The fact of this

unprecedented refugee crisis, unprecedented since the Second World

War, has put on the strains you have seen in those films. Everybody is

going their own way, the Austrians hosted a meeting saying they will

put a cap on the number of asylum seekers they will take and knock on

down the line to Greece which people are talking about sealing off. This

is everyone in Europe going their own way, the subsidiarity of the

most muscular and unpredicted kind, isn't it? And not in an organised

way. The problem is the countries inside Schengen haven't been able to

agree a strategy on this. To some extent, and it's not easy it is

difficult to blame people when they are faced with, as I say, this

unprecedented crisis. But I think more of them should frankly have

taken a lead from Britain, where our policy has been to pour money into

the areas immediately around Syria, the countries immediately around

Syria, and actually try and make conditions as good as possible there

so that people don't feel compelled to make this very dangerous sea

journey, that may end up in Belgium or France. One other aspect in this

in the way that Britain and the referendum does or does not

interlock with this is the question of contagion. People in Brussels

have talked about this for the past year or two. They are concerned that

other countries if Britain had a referendum would in some way see

this as a starting gun. Lo and behold today we have Viktor Orban,

the Hungarian Prime Minister, saying they are going to have a referendum

on whether or not to take quotas in their country and other countries,

even the Netherlands are talking about it possible more widely drawn

agenda. It is having an effect, the British example, across Europe.

Having a referendum on a specific policy area is not at all and are

just. But the Dutch. I don't think the Dutch government is talking

about it yet. I think the root of it needs to be that people who are in

the Schengen system doesn't include us if they want to survive they will

have to act collectively and if not they will invoke emergency measures

in many countries and it will probably be suspended. The big Read

a cross for us is what is happening in the camps that we saw and it

seems to me because we have border controls in Calais, our border is

much better protected than it would be if we had our border back in

Dover, which it was only 15 years ago. There is no given that we have

border controls in Calais. In that context do you agree with the Prime

Minister when he said would find thousands of people potentially

coming overnight if Britain to leave? Or was that just

scaremongering? We could do, we signed the treaty with France as two

member states of the European Union, two friendly countries that work

together very well in northern France in trying to control this

very difficult situation, particularly people trying to get on

trucks. We spend money on security and so on. Who benefits most from

that? We do. The French ambassador was on this programme is bad Wedge

was asked what France gets from this she struggled to say what the

benefits were for France. It seems they would be enormous pressure on

France if Britain pulled out of the European Union to say, you know

what, if the Brits want to get out of Europe they can have their own

border controls back. A lot of those people would find it easier to get

to Britain if we didn't have border controls in

to Britain if we didn't have border get a Dover and they would have the

right to claim asylum here. Damian Green, thank you. One thing

is for sure the question of border controls and the future of Schengen

is bound to be with us for months to come.

You're a feminist or a masochist - so says Gloria Steinem,

one of the most influential - and outspoken - feminists over

She's never shied away from controversy, dedicating her

most recent book, My Life On The Road to the man

of 22, allowing her to live a life of activism.

Emily Maitlis sat down to talk to her.

Do you think when you step back the feminist movement is in good health?

Yes, it is in good health. For instance, to speak for my country it

is a major IT movement, it is no longer 20 crazy ladies, which is

what we were. In the beginning

we were regarded as very odd. Now all of the fundamental issues,

of equality, including reproductive issues,

are majority issues. And that's true in many, if not

most, countries. And we are a global movement. We are very connected with

each other across boundaries. How do you critique

of modern feminism now? When you look at the, if you like,

the new role models, is Beyonce a good role

model for young women? She's a fine role model for anybody.

She's a fine role model for me. It's about supporting

each other in what we do best and what our dreams are,

and how we feel about women It's not about sitting around

and criticising who is a proper Does it become, therefore,

harder for you to criticise women because you think that

that is a betrayal of feminism? No, it's perfectly easy

for me to say Sarah Margaret Thatcher

was a disaster. You know, people were

still putting milk at her funeral because she cut off

the milk for children. The point is not to get

a job for one woman, it's to make life

better for women and And when you look at, for example,

choosing a presidential nominee, does that strike

you as something that should be Of course it's a feminist issue,

regardless of who it is. If they were Martians it

would be a feminist issue, because it depends

on their position on issues. Do you think that

Hillary Clinton is in Probably.

It's deep. We're mostly raised

by women and we associate And I think that is

especially hard for many men who feel regressed

when they see a powerful woman. They haven't seen

one since they were So, there is a lot of deep

feeling that it's just not right somehow, that it's

against the feminine-masculine emotional because we are

associated with childhood. Hillary Clinton has undergone

more concentrated hatred on campus when she ran for President

before there were young white men wearing T-shirts that said "Too bad

OJ didn't marry Hillary." But we've seen recently

the older feminists getting into trouble, Germaine Greer

on the transgender question. Can a man who undergoes a biological

change ever really call And her sense that actually

it was about cultural conditioning Where do you stand

on the whole issue? If you want to define yourself

and I want to define myself we have to let other

people define themselves. It is just clear that

we have to do that. So, Caitlyn Jenner,

to all intents and purposes, She is able to define

herself, just as I am. It's not a simple

question for onlookers. For instance, we had a well

reported case of a woman, a very accomplished woman,

who considered herself to be Because she had African-American

siblings, I think, and had been living as an African-American

and growing up, and there was a lot of discomfort around that

on the part of African-Americans. So I can understand

there is discomfort, but the rock bottom

is we have to accept Evan's here tomorrow -

until then, goodnight.