Browse content similar to 26/02/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, is the EU referendum going to be won by fear? | :00:07. | :00:09. | |
And if so, which side stands to gain? | :00:10. | :00:16. | |
You could see interest rates go up, food prices go up, family finances | :00:17. | :00:27. | |
threatened. Those are risks, and I think people need to weigh up the | :00:28. | :00:29. | |
risks. threats to make their point, | :00:30. | :00:31. | |
how on earth do the rest of us French authorities start clearing | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
the Jungle at Calais after a court upholds | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
the government's plan What is going on is French officials | :00:40. | :00:49. | |
are going around with a map of France saying, you could live in any | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
one of these places, you could go to a migrant centre, but he is saying, | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
I don't want to leave. On Artsnight, Lynn Barber talks | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
to two comedians about comedy and mental illness - | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
Catastrophe's Rob Delaney and Ruby When you are really ill, you can't | :00:59. | :01:11. | |
move, and before that, you have a racing mind, but when you are on the | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
way down, you have a racing mind, and they used to show up to events | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
to say, I am perfectly fine, look how popular I am! | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
In a week that feels longer than a month, | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
Come down on the side of security and safety and certainty. | :01:31. | :01:42. | |
Because in this reformed European Union, we know | :01:43. | :01:44. | |
Of course there will be people who try to spread alarm and anxiety. | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
We had much the same sort of thing when the decision came | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
I have no other agenda, I have no other agenda. | :01:54. | :02:09. | |
I think it's quite likely that during that month they would say, | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
let's talk some more, let's see if we can reach | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
a different agreement, perhaps you could have a second referendum. | :02:15. | :02:22. | |
Net migration continues into Britain at | :02:23. | :02:23. | |
And from the European Union we have zero control. | :02:24. | :02:31. | |
It's not for me, for me, a matter of numbers, | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
it's a matter of the type of people we want in this country. | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
We benefit from scale, we benefit from the standardisation, | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
It helps us to reduce our cost base and allows us to be | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
We will be more secure, I think. | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
is impossible to argue that we won't be. | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
So, the white men of Westminster have spoken. | :03:00. | :03:01. | |
And now the rest of the country has to make sense of it. | :03:02. | :03:04. | |
But did any of the noise cut through? | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
Tonight, after a week in which both sides have deployed fears | :03:10. | :03:17. | |
of security, illegality, economic ruin, we're trying to make | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
sense of the strategy each side is using to sell their argument. | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
Do the characters, giant as they may be, pull you one way or another? | :03:24. | :03:33. | |
Or do you still feel like you're fumbling around in the dark | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
like an inexperienced teenager on a blind date? | :03:37. | :03:38. | |
Here to join us are Kiri Kankhwende, Jim Waterson, Toby Young and Anne | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
Lovely to have you all here. Kiri, it is extraordinary to think that | :03:42. | :03:56. | |
this time last week it was all kicking off. The idea characterise | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
the shape of the arguments? It seemed like Punch and Judy, like a | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
lot of men lining up to take shots at each other, and I think what has | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
been lost heart of this is that it is a momentous decision, one of the | :04:12. | :04:14. | |
biggest decisions many of us will make in our lifetime, and the big | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
issues haven't cut through. Why do you think that is? I think it has | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
been caught up in personality politics. It has been very dominated | :04:24. | :04:31. | |
by... Almost as if whoever is more popular, we should leave, when in | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
short fact, no one is putting the case for either side clearly. Do you | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
think this does feel like a personality contest at the moment? | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
We have Boris on the front of the times, and he has clarified their | :04:47. | :04:53. | |
that he does say that no means no at the end of a referendum, but when | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
you look at the timings, whether it was Cameron's day or Boris's. I | :04:58. | :05:06. | |
think there was a risk that the debate could have seemed like that, | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
particularly if not many heavyweights had come out on the | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
leave side, and I think that was Downing Street's hope, and I think | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
we saw from Michael Cockrell's video last week on Newsnight about the | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
1975 referendum, they managed to tarnish the No camp is a group of | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
cranks, so I think the fact that Boris has come out Philippe, then | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
gof, then David Owen, now Michael Howard,... Do you think it was | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
coordinated? There is a relay going on? I think Boris genuinely took | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
until Sunday night to make up his mind. But I think the fact that it | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
is now a much more even contest with big beasts on both sides, and it is | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
not just a war within the Conservative Party, there is Kate | :05:59. | :06:09. | |
Hoey in labour, and George Galloway and so on on the far right, and in | :06:10. | :06:17. | |
question Time yesterday, the panel didn't divide on the usual partisan | :06:18. | :06:25. | |
lines, but it crossed those lines, and the audience seemed a gauge to. | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
The Spectator gets a lot of hits when it glitches stuff about the | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
referendum, and I think the public are very interested. The momentum | :06:34. | :06:41. | |
has been with the outers, people like Douglas Carswell looking like | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
they had a new puppy, the excitement was palpable. But it is more | :06:47. | :06:54. | |
exciting to be on the outside in week one, if you have a campaign | :06:55. | :07:01. | |
called Remain, how exciting is that? The arguments will be fleshed out in | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
the months to come, and I know people talk about the personality | :07:06. | :07:13. | |
politics, whichever country you take with a representative democracy, the | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
argument end up with a head on them, there has to be a person where you | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
think, I agree with him, or I don't like what she said, I have changed | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
from him to her. The problem for the remains side is if you have all the | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
excitement and Boris Johnson, Willie or won't he? It is, all the drama is | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
there, the soap opera, but you still have to find a way, and the cat mark | :07:38. | :07:46. | |
Economist have done a cover saying what they think, and they are in | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
Economist have done a cover saying flesh on the argument, and there is | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
a lot of excitement coming from the other side. There was a poll out | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
this evening online which said that the Tabac three have got the edge -- | :08:02. | :08:12. | |
the outers have got the edge. It shows a small edge for the Three, | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
but we still have many don't knows, if you ask how many people have | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
definitely made their mind up, I think half of them would still be | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
surprised that the referendum is even happening, so the idea we have | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
a clear result this far out would amaze me. We have plenty of time, | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
far longer than the election campaign was. You were in Scotland | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
for a long time. Do you remember the point at which the people who didn't | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
know suddenly new? There was a feeling that there was something we | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
could do, but the main thing was that there was a sudden positive ups | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
well that had been building for a very long time, the two years | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
grass-roots work they had been doing, going out to schools and | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
colleges, so from 2012 onwards they had been building up, whereas | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
essentially, a lot of the campaigns are still arguing amongst themselves | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
and only just really deploying their ground troops. And that is exactly | :09:16. | :09:22. | |
what happened, the excitement, people got a big shock by how close | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
it was going to be and that flipped up the last moment, so excitement is | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
a funny metrics, you can feel it palpably and it will drive the | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
debate, but whether it will drive the final outcome is less assured. | :09:35. | :09:43. | |
Do you think there are shy outers in this? Yes, online polls have it much | :09:44. | :09:52. | |
more level pegging, and telephone poles have people much more in | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
favour of remaining. People are saying, I am and outie, just don't | :10:00. | :10:16. | |
tell my friends! Nigel Farage says we spend all this money every week, | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
others say, we get all this money back, so what the public do? How do | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
we make sense of the figures, whether we will be more secure, less | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
secure, spend more, spend less? It comes down to basically through you | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
trust. So the data is irrelevant? On the one hand you are being told that | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
leaving would damage the economy, on the other hand you are told that | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
staying will, you know... So it is a case of going with the spokesperson | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
that you believe, and I think that is one thing people are crying out | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
for, in fact and mentioned that having this personality leads to | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
excitement, but what people are crying out for when you hear them on | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
the street is they just want to know that figures from a neutral source | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
that they can assess the arguments neutrally. Identity there is any | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
such thing as a neutral source in this debate, because facts and | :11:14. | :11:23. | |
figures are subject to assessment. Do people want to be told what to | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
think, you have to say to them, I'm sorry, you have to do some thinking | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
now. The politicians will have to put that across, because if you are | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
waiting for someone to bring you a tablet of stone, we would all claim | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
that what we represent will tell some form of the truth, but in the | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
end, people are going to have to face up to this themselves, it will | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
be a brave politician who says that, but it will probably need to be | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
said. State with us all, because when you haven't got figures, you do | :11:53. | :11:53. | |
have fear. Within hours of a date | :11:54. | :11:55. | |
for the referendum being called, Ian Duncan Smith claimed in a BBC | :11:56. | :11:57. | |
interview that the EU's freedom of movement left the door open | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
to a terrorist attack similar Counter terrorism experts | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
slapped him down, accusing him But it is this scaremongering | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
on both sides that is being widely deployed as the weapon of choice | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
to bring people round. Five, seven, six... Some of the most | :12:11. | :12:27. | |
striking political messages have been decidedly negative, like this | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
American ad from 96 D4, an attack on Barry Goldwater, a Republican seen | :12:32. | :12:40. | |
as gung ho on nuclear warfare. -- from 1964. These are the stakes! The | :12:41. | :12:48. | |
European referendum will probably be a little less apocalypse Vic. But | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
this former referendum campaign winner says the in campaign, which | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
he supports, still has to be pretty tough. When it comes down to it, | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
referendums are an offer of change, and three out of four file because | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
people don't want to take the risk. So you have to pile up the risk, | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
show the risk. The campaign for the status quo in Scotland did end up | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
more negative, the consequence of extensive research by experts now | :13:22. | :13:23. | |
working for the campaign to stay in the EU. During the Scottish | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
independence referendum, the No campaign who were in favour of | :13:31. | :13:32. | |
staying in did some research and their opponents on themselves and | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
their opponents, they found that the Yes campaign was associated with | :13:37. | :13:43. | |
ideas like ambition, Pat Richards, pride, but also risk, but the | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
campaign of staying within the union was associated with ideas like | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
financial security, job security, peace of mind, but also more of the | :13:51. | :13:58. | |
same. See can see why it is that one campaign played up the changes, and | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
the other campaign ended up sending quite negative, it was to use a term | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
coined by a member of their own staff, Project Fear. Always in all | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
polling if you ask people if they like negative campaigning, they | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
don't like it. Everybody dislikes it, but if you then ask them about | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
how their behaviour is changed by it, they hate it, but it affects | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
them. The in campaign has arranged public letters from bosses and | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
generals to seek to make a case that will be very familiar to Scots. | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
Better Together Fridjonsson security. There is concern, though, | :14:35. | :14:44. | |
that these messages are overblown. People should be aware of the down | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
and upsides, but what I object to is the exaggeration of the fears about | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
what might happen, and the exaggeration of the coercing of | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
members of the establishment of retired military types and current | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
officials and the military to rig the referendum against Brett -- | :15:06. | :15:17. | |
Brexit. The line between fair comment on opponent and unfair | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
scaremongering is a very subjective. Some of your critics would argue | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
that your concerns about how free movement within the European Union | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
undermines our security... I don't think that is an exaggerated way of | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
putting it. It is rather people to make up their own minds, but that is | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
simply anchoring what I am saying in reality. A vote cast out of fear is | :15:40. | :15:46. | |
as valid as one cast from Hope. You can wish for a gentler politics, but | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
as a way of defending incumbents or the status quo, boy can going | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
negative be effective. This brutal ad help the older George bush crush | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
Michael Dukakis in 1988. While out, many committed other | :15:59. | :16:08. | |
crimes like Many are still at large. Can hope | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
beat that? The | :16:15. | :16:16. | |
project fear, are we? Lets pick up with our panel again - | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
Jim Waterson, Kiri Kankawende, If you were going to embrace project | :16:21. | :16:31. | |
fear, would you say it is a powerful electoral tool? Does it work on the | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
public? There were only two big messages in referendums that | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
coalesce around a single issue. One is its time for change, the other | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
is, don't take any risks, don't throw it all away. To that extent, | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
as your film recollected, people will say, I don't like the sound of | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
something called project fear. It does work as long as you keep it | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
culturally in line with where people feel comfortable. The problem | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
perhaps this week when we got to something... People will choose | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
their own thing... I didn't like the lead involving generals. I | :17:06. | :17:07. | |
their own thing... I didn't like the this is like Panama a couple of | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
decades ago, what are we doing here? Relying on the military to tell us | :17:12. | :17:14. | |
about something that should be something | :17:15. | :17:16. | |
about something that should be on. As a weapon, yes, as Chris | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
Cook's film nailed it, it's a very powerful thing electorally. It | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
doesn't work with Buzz feed, your algorithm is based on happiness in a | :17:28. | :17:28. | |
way. Its puddings and online discussed, it's pleasure, putting a | :17:29. | :17:41. | |
link on Facebook that makes you look like a good, intelligent person for | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
showing this. The fact that prove my case is a strong thing want to put | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
on Facebook, Twitter, it makes them look good and spreads the word about | :17:51. | :17:52. | |
their message. One thing that is odd look good and spreads the word about | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
that we can pick up from the film is while we don't have paid for | :17:58. | :18:00. | |
political ads on TV and radio in the UK, what we have got and what the | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
Conservatives used to great effect during the general election, and | :18:05. | :18:06. | |
they have the same guys working on this campaign, for the remain | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
campaign, they can do paid Facebook ads. They will be targeting certain | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
messages using hard cash to people who could be swung in key areas. | :18:16. | :18:17. | |
It's one thing who could be swung in key areas. | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
having that people haven't picked up on. While Anne MacElvoy | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
having that people haven't picked up have got the fear problem, the | :18:27. | :18:27. | |
unknown. It definitely have got the fear problem, the | :18:28. | :18:35. | |
think they were thrown back on that tactic because they were wrong foot | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
or by the scale and respectability of those who supported leave, by the | :18:43. | :18:53. | |
lack of bounce after the deal brought back from Brussels. It's as | :18:54. | :18:54. | |
lack of bounce after the deal if they've given up having sold the | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
deal and are if they've given up having sold the | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
fear. It is security risk, and a jobs risk. The fact they fell back | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
on it so quickly, they shot those bolts faster than they were | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
intending to. We saw that in the FTSE 100 letter, they only had 36 of | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
the top FTSE 100 companies signing that letter. Why weren't | :19:14. | :19:16. | |
Sainsbury's, Tesco and Barclays Sainsbury's, Tesco and Barclays | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
signatories? And the military letter. One of the signatories, | :19:21. | :19:22. | |
General Sir Michael letter. One of the signatories, | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
didn't know anything about it. The whole idea of your character, the | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
danger, possibly, that we then talk about Europe, when | :19:33. | :19:34. | |
danger, possibly, that we then talk EU. People don't want to seem | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
anti-European because they think they like Europe, but they might not | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
feel as if they want to embody the EU, do you think there is an | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
identity thing going on here? I do think it's a factor insofar as, I | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
mean, everyone likes going on holiday, people talk about living | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
abroad. I think when it comes down to fit what people see is people. -- | :19:57. | :20:04. | |
when it comes down to it. It comes down to migration, immigration, we | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
think of it as people coming in rather than us going out. We think | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
of it as an inbound flow. Facts and figures. Things like numerous | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
studies that have found immigrants actually put in more than they take | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
out, those sorts of figures seem to... They don't seem to land in the | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
immigration debate. And we don't really talk about the people from | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
the UK as much, going to work abroad. I wonder whether part of the | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
imbalance, if you like, of this whole referendum argument, is there | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
isn't a corner for passionate federalists. It's a question of... | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
UR a bit negative or very negative, nobody is really on the... Stars on | :20:46. | :20:53. | |
the flag. They use to become its a very good point you raise, there | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
used to be the stuff I remember writing about split over Europe in | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
the Tory party and across the parties in the 1990s. There were | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
outright federalists supporters, Peter Mandelson, everyone remembers. | :21:06. | :21:12. | |
Nick Clegg. They had a strong, pro-European stance, which was about | :21:13. | :21:19. | |
the institution. The EU is a damaged institution and there are worries | :21:20. | :21:22. | |
about its handling of things like the Eurozone crisis and migration, | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
these things worry people. On the other hand, there is something you | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
said about people not wanting to be cut off from it. They think, I go | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
there on holiday, I might want to work there. There is a sense that it | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
needs to be addressed by Toby's side of the argument. They worry | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
something bad will happen that they can't put their finger on now, that | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
they would be able to do something if we leave. No doubt there will be | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
some scaremongering saying we won't be able to travel as freely in | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
Europe. I don't think anybody who lives in Spain or France will have | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
to come home the day after Brexit. You are right there aren't any | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
full-blooded federalists in this debate. Downing Street have blocked | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
themselves into a corner, Cameron and Osborne for years, and a lot of | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
other inners, have been presenting themselves as fundamentally | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
Eurosceptic, rather than Europhiles. That is why they made this big song | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
and dance about securing special status as a result of this deal for | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
the UK and the European Union. Some associate membership. Having not | :22:32. | :22:33. | |
secured that, they can't fall back on claiming to be full-blown | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
federalists because it would completely be at odds with how they | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
presented their attitudes before. They have to fall back on project | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
fear, they've nothing else. We've run out of time, but you are welcome | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
back next week. While the debate about Europe rages here, French | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
authorities have been going from tent to tent in the jungle in Calais | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
telling residents it is time to leave. | :23:00. | :23:01. | |
Yesterday a court upheld a government plan to clear | :23:02. | :23:03. | |
the sprawling camp - which is home to thousands | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
Most of them want to come to Britain. | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
But the French authorities say they must relocate to official | :23:10. | :23:11. | |
migrant centres or apply for asylum in France. | :23:12. | :23:13. | |
It comes at the end of a week in which EU nations traded | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
recriminations over refugee policy and the bloc's migration | :23:17. | :23:18. | |
commissioner warned that the system was in danger of breaking down | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
Our reporter Gabriel Gatehouse has spent the week in Calais | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
and was there as the authorities went in this morning. | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
They're going in not with bulldozers but with offers of resettlement. | :23:28. | :23:47. | |
The authorities now have the legal right to clear the Jungle, | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
but for the moment, they are asking rather than telling people to leave. | :23:51. | :24:00. | |
It's your decision, not their decision. | :24:01. | :24:02. | |
The trouble is, they don't seem to be very persuasive. | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
So, the man who lives in this tent doesn't | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
want to be filmed, but what's going on is the French officials | :24:11. | :24:12. | |
are going around with a map of France saying, | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
you can live in any one of these places, you can go to a refugee | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
or migrant reception centre, but he's saying, I don't | :24:19. | :24:20. | |
These are tough living conditions but, | :24:21. | :24:28. | |
given the option to move to other parts of France, | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
places where some people would happily go on holiday, | :24:32. | :24:33. | |
most of the residents of the Jungle say they choose this. | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
In new camp, there is no place for community or cook by yourself. | :24:37. | :24:51. | |
Here, I can find my freedom, I am treated like human beings. | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
Did they say that you could stay if you want | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
No, they said to us, maybe after two or three weeks, | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
Because I feel over there there are a lot of freedoms. | :25:03. | :25:19. | |
There are nice people over there. | :25:20. | :25:20. | |
Many of the migrants speak of heavy-handed police tactics. | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
Night-time raids with tear gas and rubber bullets. | :25:27. | :25:28. | |
As news of the court ruling came through yesterday | :25:29. | :25:30. | |
evening, the mood in the camp was tense. | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
But the prefect of the region told us no one would be moved by force. | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
We will persuade them to move of their own accord. | :25:39. | :25:49. | |
One of the options on offer is this gated camp | :25:50. | :25:51. | |
Access is controlled by a palm print. | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
Once inside, accommodation is in shipping | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
It may be warm, but it's pretty soulless, and it's not popular. | :26:00. | :26:08. | |
In any case, there are only 300 spaces | :26:09. | :26:10. | |
left in the container park, and the southern part of the Jungle | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
The truth is, the local authorities simply | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
don't have the capacity to rehouse them all. | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
Well, this strange state of limbo that the Jungle now finds | :26:23. | :26:24. | |
itself in is symptomatic of a much wider problem. | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
There are tens of thousands of people heading towards | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
Nobody can stop them, but nobody can agree | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
The Jungle is also home to a small army of mostly | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
Many have spent months building up a community which they now fear | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
There is little affection between them and the police | :26:48. | :26:55. | |
The weeks ahead will doubtless bring more tensions as the authorities | :26:56. | :27:04. | |
dismantle vacant tents and try to move the migrants on. | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
Across Europe, the failure to forge a common strategy to tackle this | :27:09. | :27:16. | |
crisis is straining the very bonds that hold the EU together. | :27:17. | :27:27. | |
Leaks from a report into the death of the young Tory activist | :27:28. | :27:29. | |
Elliot Johnson amid allegations of bullying | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
by the Conservative Mark Clarke suggest it will say "potential | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
criminal matters" were committed on the campaign road trip ahead | :27:38. | :27:39. | |
The British Transport Police report, seen by the Daily Mail, | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
is also believed to contain claims that Elliott had battled | :27:46. | :27:47. | |
with depression for years, and had tried to commit | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
Elliot was found dead on a railway line last September | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
with a note accusing Mr Clarke of bullying him. | :27:55. | :28:02. | |
For the past four months, Newsnight has been investigating | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
allegations of bullying within the youth wing | :28:06. | :28:06. | |
Today, James Clayton spoke to Ray Johnson, | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
Elliott's dad, and asked him if the claims were true. | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
Elliott looked like everything was normal, there was no problem. We | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
first found out about it when we got a call from school to say Elliott | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
had told somebody in the school he had taken something. And he'd been | :28:26. | :28:32. | |
taken to hospital. That was the first we were aware Elliott had a | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
problem with mental health. Had he tried to take his life after that | :28:39. | :28:45. | |
when he was at school? The next incident was some months later. | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
Elliott had gone to a friend's birthday party. He told us later | :28:51. | :28:58. | |
that somebody had put a coin in his drink and he almost choked on it. It | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
upset him. Friends were laughing at him. He stormed out of the party. He | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
told us that he tried to hang himself. We've been concerned since | :29:10. | :29:16. | |
the first incidents. We went to the GP with Elliott, the GP referred him | :29:17. | :29:24. | |
to a psychiatric centre. He'd had several visits to the psychiatrist | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
with us. The third attempt came out of the blue. Elliott said previously | :29:30. | :29:36. | |
he had tried to drown himself. Under closer discussion and talking with | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
Elliott, it seemed they were cries for help more than anything else. He | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
had a difficult time for a period of about a year. He was a vulnerable | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
lad, clearly, had a number of issues. He worked hard to resolve | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
those issues. Following that period over one year, he matured, he went | :29:56. | :30:04. | |
to university, had no further problems. He looked forward to | :30:05. | :30:06. | |
getting on with the next stage of his life. It's also been reported | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
that Elliott became depressed after coming out as gay in 2010. And that | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
his family had initially struggled to come to terms with his sexuality. | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
When did he tell you he was gay? He didn't actually tell us he was | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
actually gay until two and a half years ago. And how did you react to | :30:28. | :30:34. | |
that? By then we'd got used to the idea, we knew that Elliott was | :30:35. | :30:42. | |
probably tending towards being gay, so it wasn't a real surprise to us, | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
to be honest, at that stage. He was also fairly open about it with his | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
friends in London, so there was no reason for him to take his life | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
because of the fact that he was gay. His friends... He was open to them | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
about it. Everybody knew about it. It should be no reason, no bearing | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
on that. We've obviously talked a lot in the last few months. You've | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
never actually mentioned he had mental health problems, that he had | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
had mental problems, that he tried to take his own life before, why | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
didn't you bring that up? We didn't think at that stage it was the right | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
thing to say, we were trying... We knew at some stage it would come out | :31:31. | :31:33. | |
because it would become part of the medical evidence at the coroner 's | :31:34. | :31:40. | |
enquiry, inquest. Five months ago we were struggling with the loss of our | :31:41. | :31:49. | |
son. And we were worried, I suppose, that if we'd raised the point that | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
Elliott had mental health issues a number of years previously, that | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
would have made it more difficult for us to get justice for him. I | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
think people would have just thought this was just another vulnerable | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
young boy with mental health issues who decided to commit to aside. And | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
would not have looked any further to the fact of what drove our son to | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
his suicide. Once again, you don't think that is relevant to my Elliott | :32:20. | :32:27. | |
ended up taking his own life? No, it's not relevant, Elliott took his | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
life because he'd been bullied. And picked on generally. By certain | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
persons. And let down by other organisations around the | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
Conservative Party. He was treated badly, that's why he took his life. | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
He was treated appallingly by people and organisations and we want to | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
make sure Elliott receives justice for what happened to him. Ray | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
Johnson, Elliot Johnson's dad, speaking to James Clayton. | :32:56. | :32:57. | |
Rob Delaney and Ruby Wax, about the links between comedy | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
We should warn you this programme contains strong language. | :33:03. | :33:12. | |
They say that for every four people walking the streets of this country, | :33:13. | :33:17. |