Browse content similar to 01/03/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, was a Scotland Yard detective taken off the case | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
because he wanted to talk to a government minister? | :00:07. | :00:12. | |
I have been 34-and-a-half years in the Met police. | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
I am immensely proud to have been a police officer and to have been | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
This is the one period in my career which just troubles me greatly. | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
For 18 months we've been investigating what went wrong | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
when this policeman was trying to discover the truth | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
about allegations of widespread abuse in south | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
Clive had been suspended from the case, the investigation, | :00:34. | :00:41. | |
he was going to be disciplined, he had been interviewed | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
and they found he had nothing and to all intents and purposes | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
the matter should be regarded as completely closed. | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
What does this case reveal about the sensitivities that arise | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
Also tonight, the US Presidential Primaries | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
The Republican Party machine is looking for salvation. | :01:03. | :01:11. | |
They are currently grappling with what psychologists might call | :01:12. | :01:13. | |
the five stages of grief, somewhere between denial that Trump | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
is going to win the nomination, and acceptance that it is all going | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
to end up like that, comes the fightback. | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
They want to know if he is stoppable and what the nuclear options | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
Over the last few years, few subjects have caused as much | :01:27. | :01:40. | |
controversy as the investigations into historic cases of child abuse. | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
The issue is a minefield for survivors, for police and, | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
Over time, rumours become reality and facts are too easily | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
How do you disentangle all this to find the truth? | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
That is what Justice Goddard has set herself up to do in a public inquiry | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
that gets under way this month and will last years. | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
She has prioritised a handful of cases that need urgent attention | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
and one of them is the London borough of Lambeth. | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
Unlike other stories you have heard, there is no doubt the children's | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
homes here were infiltrated by paedophiles, a number of men have | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
But there is a lingering feeling the police didn't uncover | :02:18. | :02:25. | |
Tonight we set out one small part of the Lambeth story, | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
an important episode that involves the police, | :02:31. | :02:32. | |
Detectives had been investigating a man for child abuse | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
and as they looked into his case, they were told the suspect seemed | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
There was no suggestion the minister had done anything wrong. | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
But should police talk to him to see if he could help the inquiry? | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
In fact, Scotland Yard chose not to approach him. | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
And that baffled some people, including one experienced | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
So, did detectives make the right call? | :03:00. | :03:07. | |
There is another important twist, because detectives weren't dealing | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
To understand the sensitivities here we need to explain | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
who he was and the job he held. The minister was Paul Boateng, | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
Home Office minister in charge of the police, | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
a man who'd made his name as a lawyer criticising the Met. | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
Over the last 18 months, we've approached all the key people | :03:28. | :03:29. | |
in this saga, including Lord Boateng himself. | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
But this film doesn't draw conclusions. | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
It asks questions, questions that still haven't been answered | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
The borough of Lambeth in south London, a prime focus for the | :03:39. | :03:58. | |
independent enquiry into child sex abuse held by justice Goddard. Her | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
team will look at what went on in children's care homes here more than | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
30 years ago and review decisions taken by the police that are still | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
contentious today. Perhaps none more so than what led to the removal of | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
an officer from a sensitive enquiry and what happened to the information | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
he had. At the heart of this story is one fundamental issue, the an | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
easy relationship between the police and those in power. I have been 34 | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
and a half years in the Metropolitan police service and I was immensely | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
proud to be a police officer, but this is the one period in my career | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
which troubles me greatly. In 1998, Clive Driscoll was a detective | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
working on a delicate case. Police in Liverpool had arrested a man | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
called John Carroll. He was accused of offences in Liverpool and | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
Lambeth. He had been the manager of children's care home in Lambeth and | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
Driscoll's job was to pick up the London end of the inquiry. Was there | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
more to follow up? He thought there was. Among several potential | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
witnesses he wanted to talk to was this man, Paul Boateng, a rising | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
star in Tony player's government. Approaching any minister would have | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
been awkward, but speaking to Boateng would have been particularly | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
so, he had just been appointed minister in charge of the police. | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
Newsnight has spent 18 months investigating what happened in this | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
borough back then and one thing is for sure. It is as controversial now | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
as it ever was. This story begins with Driscoll's investigation, | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
Operation Trawler. The prime focus of his enquiries where this man, | :05:51. | :05:57. | |
John Carroll, who would plead guilty to charges of indecent assault and | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
burglary of young boys in the 1970s and 80s. He was sentenced to ten | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
years in jail. Police in London continued to look into his past, | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
they wanted to be sure the full extent of his abuse in Lambeth care | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
homes had been uncovered. It was becoming clear there were still | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
people who might be able to shed light on his activities. Driscoll | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
investigated through the autumn of 1998. These confidential | :06:27. | :06:37. | |
papers record the work he was undertaking. Driscoll was told | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
Carroll like to get among well-known people in the local community, | :06:41. | :06:42. | |
dignitaries, police officers, councillors. Two witnesses mentioned | :06:43. | :06:44. | |
the name of one particularly prominent individual he had met in | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
this way. We have spoken to both of them. One was a former social worker | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
who had worked under Carroll at the Angel Road care home. Her name was | :06:55. | :07:01. | |
Teresa Johnson. Her identity has never been revealed before. She told | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
us she had seen many visitors come and go from the home. One of them | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
she says was Paul Boateng. She says she saw him on up to six occasions | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
and once spoke to him in the reception area. By the office there | :07:16. | :07:26. | |
was a table with visitorsbook and everybody who comes into our home | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
has to sign the book. I said, excuse me, can you sign the visitors' book? | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
And he signed it. You saw his name in there? Yes. The second person who | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
had spoken to Driscoll was a youth worker from a local charity which | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
ran annual caravan holidays for people in care. He told us John | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
Carroll attended these camps and he remembered many local dignitaries | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
visiting or helping out. One of them he says was Paul Boateng. John | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
Carroll would regularly talk about him being able to open doors for | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
him. John Carroll believed he should have been someone far more | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
significant. From your own recollections, you saw John Carroll | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
with this man? Definitely. On how many occasions? Quite a few. There | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
was a third piece of information in Driscoll's files. In the mid-19 80s | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
John Carroll attempted to foster children. Lambeth supported this, | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
but needed the neighbouring borough, Southwark, two second it. They | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
refused. They discovered Carroll already had a conviction for child | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
abuse dating back to the 1960s. Southwark couldn't believe Lambeth | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
Council did not know about this and had not sacked him. Newsnight has | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
been told the decision provoked a bitter row between the two Council. | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
We have been told a few days later the official who took the decision | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
to block the application received a phone call from a man who identified | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
himself as Paul Boateng, although the official could not be sure it | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
was him. The caller had asked him if there was anything he could do to | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
help resolve the row around Carroll's posturing. The offer was | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
not taken up. There is no suggestion they were aware of Carroll's | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
previous conviction. Driscoll told colleagues he needed to talk to Paul | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
Boateng in case he could shed light on Carol's activities. Then to his | :09:36. | :09:46. | |
astonishment he was axed. One of those who knew Driscoll was about to | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
approach Boateng was a senior Lambeth official, Nigel Goldie. But | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
Goldie thought the detective had told too many people about his | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
plans. He said he raised his concerns within Lambeth Council. | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
Within days, Goldie had been spoken to by another police officer called | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
Richard da Genie. He said he told him to forget about Driscoll and his | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
Leeds. Clive had been suspended from the investigation and he was going | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
to be disciplined. He had been interviewed and they found he had | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
nothing and that to all intents and purposes the matter should be | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
regarded as completely closed. Nothing more was going to be done | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
about it. It should be left and I should not speak to anyone about it, | :10:38. | :10:45. | |
were you surprised he had been removed? I was surprised, I was not | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
expecting that kind of drastic action. Driscoll is also bemused. | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
For him any claim that the product of his investigation had come to | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
nothing did not make sense. He said he had not told anyone who he wanted | :11:02. | :11:09. | |
to speak to or why. Did Driscoll get what he deserved, or was this a good | :11:10. | :11:16. | |
excuse to get him out before he stirred up a political Hornets' | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
nest? A secret internal, Scotland Yard report said Driscoll committed | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
serious indiscretions, but it also refers to the political | :11:28. | :11:29. | |
sensitivities that resulted in his removal from Lambeth. Like many | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
senior officers at Scotland Yard, Driscoll had his critics and he | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
admits he can be a bit of a bull in a china shot. But the disciplinary | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
proceedings against him were quickly drop and his career soared. | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
The Lawrence's family's long wait for justice. Two men are found | :11:52. | :12:00. | |
guilty. Driscoll was rated as the detective | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
who finally brought them to justice. Baroness Doreen Lawrence describes | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
Driscoll as an officer with integrity. Driscoll says he | :12:09. | :12:16. | |
subsequently handed over his notebooks and documents to Dyer | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
Genie. He says they detail the progress he was making with people | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
to contact. It was around the time that Driscoll was removed that car | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
Genie was asked to run a new inquiry called operation Middleton. It was | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
on a bigger scale and as well as police now involve a team of | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
specially trained social workers. They were known as the child abuse | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
in Lambeth team. But operation Middleton did not pick up where | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
Driscoll had left off. John Carroll was no longer the sole focus of the | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
enquiry. Instead detectives were tasked with looking at allegations | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
of child abuse across all Lambeth's children's homes going back 20 | :13:05. | :13:11. | |
years. So what happened to Driscoll's documents, his Leeds, his | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
notebooks? That is one of the key unanswered questions. Why? Because | :13:17. | :13:23. | |
Teresa Johnson told us she did not hear from detectives again. This | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
left her feeling distrustful of the police. Social workers contacted her | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
some years later as part of a general sweep of all former staff, | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
but she told us they never asked her about the information she had given | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
Driscoll. In our investigation we met with a dozen times. She died in | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
September last year. The charity worker from the caravan park was not | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
spoken to either. He too lost faith in the police. The Southwark | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
official who took the adoption call was never contacted either. Some | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
officers in operation Middleton had told us they were unaware of the | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
information Driscoll had compiled, information that had justified his | :14:07. | :14:14. | |
plan to approach the minister. One confesses that Driscoll even told | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
him, claimed that emphatically denies. | :14:18. | :14:25. | |
There was another strand of information presented to police. | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
Social workers discovered a document suggesting Paul Boateng and his wife | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
had visited the Angel Road tempo in the mid-19 80s when John Carroll was | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
in charge. We were told the information was passed to detectives | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
on operation Muggleton. Social workers recognised the potential | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
sensitivities and they were told it was discussed at the highest levels | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
of the police and the Home Office. We put this to this attempt to Eddie | :14:53. | :15:00. | |
said was unable to clarify the sequence of events because he did | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
not have access to computer records in relation to operation Muggleton. | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
He said was an ongoing enquiry and it would be inappropriate to comment | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
further. None of this suggest that Paul Boateng has done anything | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
wrong. And the police said they have never received any complaints about | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
him. But might he have had information that could help the | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
police investigation? Driscoll thought so. Regardless of the | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
sensitivities. The new enquiry did not. Met officers we spoke to deny | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
the bottled it and describe Middleton is a gold standard | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
enquiry. So why is this important? In operation Muggleton posmack early | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
days officers let it be known they had 40 offenders in their sights. It | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
emerged that 60 alleged abusers had died. Another 19 could not be | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
identified. At the end of the four-year enquiry the police secured | :15:58. | :15:59. | |
three convictions. Operation Muggleton's final report noted it | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
would be unreasonable to judge the success of the operation solely on | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
the basis of the number of successful prosecutions. So where | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
are we now put up as we make clear, there is no evidence that Lord | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
Boateng did anything wrong. He has told us he only became aware of | :16:19. | :16:26. | |
officer Carol Dzagoev Carol when he was arrested. He told us that as a | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
campaigning lawyer he acted for many young people in care and met many of | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
the social workers and visited many use facilities in the course of his | :16:38. | :16:39. | |
work. He did not personally know Mr Carroll and had no recollection of | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
meeting him professionally or visiting the Angel Road or anywhere | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
else he was present. He told us he remembered the charity that he has | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
no recollection of visiting during the caravan holidays. And he said he | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
did not make the call to a council official. The statement added, I | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
would be appalled if Mr Carroll was not properly investigated and | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
children harmed as as a result. I'm unaware how the investigation into | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
Mr Carroll was conducted and knew nothing about the matter is under | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
investigation. So I cannot comment on why the police did not seek my | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
assistance in connection with this matter. I would of course have been | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
happy to assist. Scotland Yard launched its own internal review | :17:26. | :17:27. | |
almost three years ago. It is now being overseen by the Independent | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
Police Complaints Commission. Now just as God has made Lambeth a | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
priority. The questions they're looking at go to the heart of | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
policing. Officers take us to act without fear or favour. Did they do | :17:43. | :17:52. | |
that in this case? -- take an oath. To try to help answer the question, | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
just as God heard turned to this man. Raymond Stevenson was a boy in | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
one of the Lambeth care homes. 18 months ago he set up a support group | :18:02. | :18:11. | |
for survivors. He is now seeing more than 600 members. | :18:12. | :18:20. | |
A music producer, he directed a video to highlight the issue of | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
child abuse in Lambeth. He believes police avoided asking awkward | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
questions. We have four pieces of information that appear to show a | :18:31. | :18:33. | |
link, alleged link between Paul Boateng and John Carroll. You think | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
that he should have been spoken to by the police? | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
I know those links you're talking about and of course he should have | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
been spoken to. Anyone with those connecting pieces of information | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
should be spoken to, whoever they are. | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
John Carroll now lives in the Midlands, he declined to speak to | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
us. Here he is with children in his care, pictures never seen before. By | :19:00. | :19:06. | |
Tansey was charming, terrifying, manipulative. -- by Tansey was | :19:07. | :19:16. | |
charming. Newsnight held many conflict and stories about his world | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
and to sell it but most can agree on one thing. The story of child abuse | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
in Lambeth and the story of John Carroll has never been fully told. | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
Well, Jake Morris carried out that investigation with Nick and I spoke | :19:32. | :19:38. | |
Jake, we've seen one police investigation accused of being far | :19:39. | :19:47. | |
too credulous, in this case the suggestion is the investigation | :19:48. | :19:49. | |
Why do you think the police have such a chequered record in these | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
Evan, I think manny police officers would say they're dammed if they do, | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
and dammed if they don't when it comes to these kind of inquiries. | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
There are lots of campaigners who believe the police repeatedly | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
failed to do their job in the 1970s and the 1980s when dealing | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
But there are some critics of the police who feel the pendulum | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
And officers are now being overzealous in the way | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
As we said, this is desperately difficult territory for the police. | :20:20. | :20:26. | |
Because many of these allegations are about events that allegedly | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
And also because of the incendiary nature of what is being suggested. | :20:30. | :20:38. | |
Now, given that you and Nick in the report spell out very clearly | :20:39. | :20:45. | |
that there is no evidence that Paul Boateng, Lord Boateng, | :20:46. | :20:47. | |
did anything wrong, why did you feel it was important to name him | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
We thought very long and hard about this and our feeling | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
was to fully understand this story you needed to tell the particular | :20:58. | :20:59. | |
sensitivities around this particular minister. | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
Therefore we needed to say what job he did, and who he was. | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
Paul Boateng wasn't just any influential figure, | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
he was the man who was a minister with responsibility for the police. | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
And he was also someone who had built his reputation and come | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
to prominence as a lawyer who was often very critical | :21:18. | :21:19. | |
Well Justice Goddard has said she will start looking at Lambeth | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
this month and she has outlined what she is going to be looking at. | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
And I quote - "allegations that there was inappropriate | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
interference in law enforcement investigations, into the sexual | :21:35. | :21:36. | |
abuse of children in the care of the council." | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
As we also said, the police have been looking at this for nearly | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
But there are witnesses we have spoken to who have told us they have | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
lost faith in this review, who do not believe it | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
will get to the bottom of what happened in Lambeth. | :21:52. | :21:53. | |
So I think it fair to say Justice Goddard will have her work | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
cut out to reassure them that on this occasion she really will get | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
That name gives it the buzz of a sporting fixture | :22:00. | :22:14. | |
or a reality TV event, but it is the biggest day | :22:15. | :22:17. | |
of the season of US Presidential Primaries. | :22:18. | :22:18. | |
Emily is there as votes are cast, in Nashville, Tennessee. | :22:19. | :22:33. | |
Good evening from Nashville, Tennessee. It is the first time the | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
state gets to vote in Super Tuesday and the day has acquired new | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
significance because this is the moment we find out if Donald Trump | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
is electrically unstoppable. For the past six months, | :22:47. | :22:48. | |
the Republican party machine has careered between denial | :22:49. | :22:50. | |
and acceptance of Trump The backlash against him is growing, | :22:51. | :22:52. | |
but have the big guns of the GOP left it too late to endorse | :22:53. | :23:06. | |
their preferred candidate, I put the question to a former | :23:07. | :23:08. | |
presidential candidate. First a breakdown of how those | :23:09. | :23:17. | |
numbers stack up. Held across 11 states | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
in a territory, Super Tuesday spreads the election | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
battleground across the country, from the Alaska caucus | :23:25. | :23:25. | |
to American Samoa in the Pacific. You can see why it is a decisive | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
day for candidates - nearly half of all Republican | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
delegates are for grabs today. Meanwhile Hillary Clinton | :23:32. | :23:33. | |
and Bernie Sanders will compete for 865, almost a third | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
of their total number. Going into Super Tuesday, | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
Clinton is ahead with 546. Donald Trump meanwhile | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
is on 82 delegates. Marco Rubio is one behind him | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
on just 16. Hillary Clinton is expected to win | :23:54. | :24:04. | |
everywhere but Vermont - Sanders' home state - | :24:05. | :24:07. | |
and Oklahoma which is tied. Trump is expected to win in ten out | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
of the eleven states, the exception being Texas where | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
Ted Cruz has the home advantage. In the beginning we used to talk | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
about Trump having the angry voter, but our sense travelling around | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
is that he has got much more than that, the suburban | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
Republicans, college graduate Republicans, even perhaps | :24:30. | :24:31. | |
the evangelicals. We start our piece | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
in downtown Nashville. Nashville is to music | :24:37. | :24:44. | |
what the Vatican is to prayer. A holy city of honky-tonk, | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
country and western, It brings the believers | :24:49. | :24:50. | |
out in force and even on a Monday night, | :24:51. | :24:58. | |
Laila's Bluegrass Inn gets them The old hands and yes, | :24:59. | :25:00. | |
the absolute beginner. Mike's band has been playing | :25:01. | :25:13. | |
Nashville for decades, part of him mourns the changes | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
he is seeing here. So when Trump appeared, | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
or as another Nashville singer might put it, came in like a wrecking | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
ball, the choice was easy. I had a paint business | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
for 25 years, it took And when the politicians decided | :25:27. | :25:28. | |
to let Mexico get up and move to Tennessee and take my business | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
from me, it felt like my government and reached down and | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
snatched my paint business away from me and handed it | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
to a bunch of illegal immigrants. Mike has stressed | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
to me his Christian What is curious is that even here, | :25:47. | :25:48. | |
deep in the Bible Belt, that sense of faith no longer | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
dictates where the vote goes. In this small town of Sparta | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
in Tennessee, we counted 16 churches just driving around | :26:00. | :26:01. | |
the neighbourhood. In other words, this is a part | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
of the world with plenty Yet Donald Trump, | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
three times married, criticised by the Pope | :26:08. | :26:09. | |
for his non-Christian beliefs, leads the polls here | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
by more than 10%. It is that kind of | :26:15. | :26:16. | |
statistic that makes Over the border in Georgia, | :26:17. | :26:18. | |
we join evangelicals to try and make It is a diverse congregation, | :26:19. | :26:26. | |
ethnically and politically, and a preacher focused | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
on Super Tuesday. And I know that in your minds, | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
you're thinking, this candidate or this candidate, it is not | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
easy to find somebody. Pastor Rouse won't name | :26:39. | :26:40. | |
names, but you can detect I think, you know, we're | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
going to see this election play out that a possible candidate will be | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
elected purely because the whole If his message has | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
urgency, it is because With half the Republican | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
delegates up for grabs today, this contest can turbo propel | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
whoever comes out on top Super Tuesday is when the southern | :27:09. | :27:10. | |
states of America come Places like this, Tennessee, | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
Alabama, Georgia, with a strong evangelical, blue-collar vote, | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
might want to have gone for Ted More extraordinary than that, | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
he is dominating with college graduates, with suburban | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
Republicans, even with The classifications may be crude, | :27:28. | :27:29. | |
but the big picture is clear. Of course the polling | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
figures do not represent America, just a tiny Republican core | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
who vote in primaries. But when you compare Trump | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
to his nearest rivals, The Republican Party | :27:45. | :27:55. | |
machine is looking They're currently grappling | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
with what psychologists Somewhere between denial that | :27:59. | :28:00. | |
Trump is going to win the nomination, and acceptance | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
that it is all going to end up They want to know if he is | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
stoppable, and what the nuclear Thus a flurry of endorsements | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
from the GOP's big guns in the last 72 hours for Florida | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
Senator Marco Rubio. Former presidential candidate | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
Lamar Alexander and state Governor Bill Haslam have | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
jetted into his rally I asked them if it | :28:22. | :28:23. | |
is not all too late. There is a lot of election ahead | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
of us, OK, and obviously But if you look at all those | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
numbers, the longer people look at it, the more | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
they are convinced he And if he doesn't win | :28:37. | :28:38. | |
any of the states on Obviously the goal is | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
to stay in the game. And I think you will see | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
Marco Rubio out there And I honestly think those | :28:46. | :28:47. | |
delegates will fall in place. You know what is like to run | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
for president, at this point in the race, does it feel | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
like there is desperation setting No, if I were Marco Rubio, | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
I would be encouraged. Because he has got the money | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
to continue and literally, we are in the second | :29:03. | :29:04. | |
or third or fourth game The party is in a race | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
against itself right now. Both Cruz and Rubio poll better | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
against Hillary Clinton Yet that doesn't seem to be a factor | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
in where the primary vote is going. Comedian Jon Stewart | :29:15. | :29:24. | |
is blindingly brilliant You have to remember one | :29:25. | :29:26. | |
thing about the will It wasn't that long ago | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
we were all swept away I doubt they recognise | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
the Macarena here in But whatever step they do make | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
next, will need some And with me now is Senator | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
Becky Duncan Massey, Republican member of | :29:43. | :29:55. | |
the Tennessee Senate and a Rubio supporter, and Mark Winslow | :29:56. | :29:57. | |
who is a member of the Tennessee GOP executive committee and is running | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
as a delegate for Donald Trump. I think he has got a very good lead, | :30:01. | :30:22. | |
but there will be a concerted effort to stop him. What do you make of the | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
backlash, all the senators coming out for Rubio? We are seeing some | :30:28. | :30:34. | |
coming out for Donald Trump, but change is difficult and a lot of | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
people are afraid of the change he might bring. I described the mood in | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
your party as crisis mode and when we were speaking to Senator | :30:46. | :30:48. | |
Alexander yesterday, they sound like they are in denial. Polls are | :30:49. | :30:55. | |
showing that Donald Trump is leading strongly. In any election you have a | :30:56. | :31:03. | |
difference of opinions. You look at their policies, their experience, | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
their faith and their character. That is where people make their | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
decisions. What do you think the mainstream Republican party should | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
have done differently if they had wanted to stop Donald Trump when | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
they could? I think having 17 people in the race at the beginning made a | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
big difference. It was hard for people to coalesce around one | :31:29. | :31:30. | |
candidate and the race would have been a lot different if they had | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
basically two front runner is from the beginning. This is democracy in | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
action, this is how the Republicans are voting in the primaries, but | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
when you look at the polls which suggest that either Rubio or Ted | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
Cruz would do better against Hillary Clinton, are you not cutting off | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
your nose despite your face? It is a long time until November and we will | :31:58. | :32:04. | |
find out as we approach November whether Republicans begin to | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
coalesce or not. You say they will coalesce, are you confident of that? | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
We are hearing Republican voices who are saying if it is Donald Trump I | :32:15. | :32:21. | |
am staying at home. I am hopeful. You are finding people like Governor | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
Christie and several members of Congress, yesterday there was a | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
member from Tennessee who came in supporting Donald Trump in his | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
campaign. Change is hard and hopefully they will come around and | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
understand we need to be united for the election in November. If Marco | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
Rubio and Ted Cruz both do well tonight... Which I hope for. That | :32:45. | :32:52. | |
will basically secured Donald Trump for longer. Well, it is narrowing | :32:53. | :33:01. | |
down. There were five people in the last debate and they have to get 20% | :33:02. | :33:10. | |
of the vote in Tennessee to get the proportional delegates. I believe at | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
best there will only be three people that will get the delegates in | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
Tennessee and that will keep the candidacy alive. Give us a sense of | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
what this means for Tennessee. It is the first time it takes part in | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
Super Tuesday and we have seen no real attack ads. How does that | :33:31. | :33:37. | |
change the dynamic? We have not always had the number of adverts as | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
in Iowa and New Hampshire, they had votes based on publicity. This time | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
there have been some ads, but not enough resources have been put in at | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
this stage. Are you expecting Donald Trump to win pretty much everything | :33:56. | :34:02. | |
but Texas? If so, what is the fancy footwork that the mainstream of the | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
party want if they are still intent on stopping him? They could accept | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
the people's well. The good thing is in America you have one person, one | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
vote. You go out and work each state and each area and there are people | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
on the ground in every state and I am sure the candidacy will continue. | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
Obviously I am strongly for Senator Rubio. He is the right candidate, he | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
unites people, and I think the more he gets out, and we had 2000 people | :34:35. | :34:43. | |
in Knoxville yesterday and 4000 in Franklin, and the majority of those | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
votes were young people. It is great to see how many people are taking | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
part and we will keep on working on it. Yesterday Donald Trump was | :34:52. | :34:58. | |
blaming his earpiece when he had not been able to explain why it had | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
taken him so long to distance himself from the Ku Klux Klan. Was | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
that a moment of embarrassment for you as a supporter? No, when you | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
have a first-time candidate who does not have all the political polish, | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
you are going to have things like that now and then. You are joking. | :35:17. | :35:25. | |
You are saying he is lacking the political polish? He has not been | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
through the method of polish that the other candidates can and he has | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
not been giving Senate floor speeches and he has not been in the | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
arena. You take the sweet bumps with the positives. If he had said, yes I | :35:40. | :35:48. | |
can accept the Ku Klux Klan endorsement, would that have put | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
people off or not particularly? I do not know of any civilised person who | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
believes represent everything. That shows character and if those are his | :36:01. | :36:07. | |
beliefs, it would bother me significantly. I bet that is the | :36:08. | :36:13. | |
biggest question, how much Donald Trump means what he says and how far | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
he would go to implement some of the more extreme policies that he has | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
discussed. We will know the result from here at about nine o'clock | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
tonight. The polls show in a couple of hours' time and we will bring you | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
all the race, including what is happening in the Democratic race | :36:32. | :36:32. | |
tomorrow. Back in Europe, migrant numbers | :36:33. | :36:34. | |
are building up in Greece, people unable to move north and west | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
up through Macedonia. It is beginning to look horrifyingly | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
like a humanitarian crisis. We have the figures | :36:41. | :36:54. | |
for February now. People coming off boats from Turkey | :36:55. | :36:56. | |
to Lesbos as in these pictures From the islands, the new arrivals | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
get to Athens by ferry. Here are scenes today | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
at the passenger terminal And that is where the | :37:09. | :37:10. | |
latest problems start. Because people get to the border | :37:11. | :37:23. | |
with Macedonia and then 9,000 or so camping | :37:24. | :37:25. | |
in the fields near that border. The Macedonians now tightening | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
the border to prevent any more Well, this is causing problems | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
for Greece as the minister for citizen protection there, | :37:35. | :37:44. | |
Nikos Toskas, explained I started by asking him | :37:45. | :37:45. | |
about the situation There is a serious crisis, | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
as I said, in the area. And this serious crisis is caused | :37:50. | :37:55. | |
by the different wars in Syria, We did not start the wars, | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
but we are receiving the results And various people are | :37:59. | :38:07. | |
coming with nothing. We are providing them | :38:08. | :38:16. | |
with the basic things, But they don't want to stay | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
in the different camps, Only a small number | :38:23. | :38:29. | |
of refugees are passing. Yesterday only 30 people | :38:30. | :38:38. | |
passed from the borders. So this is a serious | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
problem but unfortunately, a few European Union countries | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
and a few Balkan countries are not dealing with the problem in | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
a collective and comprehensible way. You said some of them are not | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
behaving in a collective way. Name some names | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
for me, if you would. The previous days, a decision | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
was taken in Vienna. And so the decision really | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
was the borders would be closed We have a different approach, | :39:14. | :39:24. | |
we want, as I said, We believe European countries have | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
to share the burden, European countries can receive | :39:31. | :39:37. | |
a number of refugees. Most of the European countries have | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
accepted this approach, but unfortunately there are other | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
countries taking their own path. And they're taking care only | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
of their national interest and not the collective interest | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
of the European Union. What can Greece do to put pressure | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
on its European partners, what can you do to say, guys, | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
you have to do what you have said you're going to do and you have | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
got to help us here? Many times we requested | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
from the European Union to deal One year ago they thought that this | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
was only a problem which affected only the southern areas | :40:18. | :40:27. | |
and especially Greece. Later on they realised that these | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
flows were affecting And so they started dealing more | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
seriously about the problem. So they started trying to find ways, | :40:37. | :40:45. | |
to find solutions for the problem. The real solution will be the ending | :40:46. | :40:53. | |
of the war to the areas which are the sources | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
of the problem in Syria, One final question | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
if you would, Minister. What effect do you think this | :41:02. | :41:09. | |
is having on Greek society? We are receiving everyday 2,500 | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
immigrants and refugees. We are in the middle | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
of a financial crisis, so we have two real | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
crises in the country. The financial and | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
the refugee problem. We cannot be the black | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
hole of Europe. We need support from the different | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
countries and we need a real solution for the flows | :41:34. | :41:42. | |
and the problem. Minister Toskas, thank | :41:43. | :41:50. | |
you very much indeed. We'll wake up to American | :41:51. | :41:57. | |
politics I dare say, but before we go to bed, | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
a bit of South Korea, where the filibuster to end | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
all filibusters is still under way. Opposition MPs there protesting | :42:05. | :42:06. | |
at anti-terrorism legislation started their attempt to talk it out | :42:07. | :42:08. | |
back on February 23rd and they have I can't tell you what they're | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
saying, but at this point, | :42:12. | :42:19. |