01/03/2016 Newsnight


01/03/2016

Evan Davis with a special investigation into what put a stop to a police inquiry into abuse in children's homes, Trump and Super Tuesday, and Greece and the migrant crisis.


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Transcript


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Tonight, was a Scotland Yard detective taken off the case

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because he wanted to talk to a government minister?

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I have been 34-and-a-half years in the Met police.

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I am immensely proud to have been a police officer and to have been

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This is the one period in my career which just troubles me greatly.

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For 18 months we've been investigating what went wrong

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when this policeman was trying to discover the truth

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about allegations of widespread abuse in south

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Clive had been suspended from the case, the investigation,

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he was going to be disciplined, he had been interviewed

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and they found he had nothing and to all intents and purposes

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the matter should be regarded as completely closed.

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What does this case reveal about the sensitivities that arise

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Also tonight, the US Presidential Primaries

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The Republican Party machine is looking for salvation.

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They are currently grappling with what psychologists might call

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the five stages of grief, somewhere between denial that Trump

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is going to win the nomination, and acceptance that it is all going

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to end up like that, comes the fightback.

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They want to know if he is stoppable and what the nuclear options

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Over the last few years, few subjects have caused as much

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controversy as the investigations into historic cases of child abuse.

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The issue is a minefield for survivors, for police and,

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Over time, rumours become reality and facts are too easily

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How do you disentangle all this to find the truth?

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That is what Justice Goddard has set herself up to do in a public inquiry

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that gets under way this month and will last years.

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She has prioritised a handful of cases that need urgent attention

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and one of them is the London borough of Lambeth.

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Unlike other stories you have heard, there is no doubt the children's

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homes here were infiltrated by paedophiles, a number of men have

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But there is a lingering feeling the police didn't uncover

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Tonight we set out one small part of the Lambeth story,

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an important episode that involves the police,

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Detectives had been investigating a man for child abuse

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and as they looked into his case, they were told the suspect seemed

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There was no suggestion the minister had done anything wrong.

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But should police talk to him to see if he could help the inquiry?

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In fact, Scotland Yard chose not to approach him.

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And that baffled some people, including one experienced

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So, did detectives make the right call?

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There is another important twist, because detectives weren't dealing

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To understand the sensitivities here we need to explain

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who he was and the job he held. The minister was Paul Boateng,

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Home Office minister in charge of the police,

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a man who'd made his name as a lawyer criticising the Met.

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Over the last 18 months, we've approached all the key people

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in this saga, including Lord Boateng himself.

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But this film doesn't draw conclusions.

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It asks questions, questions that still haven't been answered

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The borough of Lambeth in south London, a prime focus for the

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independent enquiry into child sex abuse held by justice Goddard. Her

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team will look at what went on in children's care homes here more than

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30 years ago and review decisions taken by the police that are still

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contentious today. Perhaps none more so than what led to the removal of

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an officer from a sensitive enquiry and what happened to the information

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he had. At the heart of this story is one fundamental issue, the an

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easy relationship between the police and those in power. I have been 34

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and a half years in the Metropolitan police service and I was immensely

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proud to be a police officer, but this is the one period in my career

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which troubles me greatly. In 1998, Clive Driscoll was a detective

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working on a delicate case. Police in Liverpool had arrested a man

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called John Carroll. He was accused of offences in Liverpool and

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Lambeth. He had been the manager of children's care home in Lambeth and

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Driscoll's job was to pick up the London end of the inquiry. Was there

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more to follow up? He thought there was. Among several potential

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witnesses he wanted to talk to was this man, Paul Boateng, a rising

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star in Tony player's government. Approaching any minister would have

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been awkward, but speaking to Boateng would have been particularly

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so, he had just been appointed minister in charge of the police.

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Newsnight has spent 18 months investigating what happened in this

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borough back then and one thing is for sure. It is as controversial now

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as it ever was. This story begins with Driscoll's investigation,

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Operation Trawler. The prime focus of his enquiries where this man,

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John Carroll, who would plead guilty to charges of indecent assault and

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burglary of young boys in the 1970s and 80s. He was sentenced to ten

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years in jail. Police in London continued to look into his past,

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they wanted to be sure the full extent of his abuse in Lambeth care

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homes had been uncovered. It was becoming clear there were still

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people who might be able to shed light on his activities. Driscoll

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investigated through the autumn of 1998. These confidential

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papers record the work he was undertaking. Driscoll was told

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Carroll like to get among well-known people in the local community,

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dignitaries, police officers, councillors. Two witnesses mentioned

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the name of one particularly prominent individual he had met in

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this way. We have spoken to both of them. One was a former social worker

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who had worked under Carroll at the Angel Road care home. Her name was

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Teresa Johnson. Her identity has never been revealed before. She told

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us she had seen many visitors come and go from the home. One of them

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she says was Paul Boateng. She says she saw him on up to six occasions

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and once spoke to him in the reception area. By the office there

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was a table with visitorsbook and everybody who comes into our home

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has to sign the book. I said, excuse me, can you sign the visitors' book?

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And he signed it. You saw his name in there? Yes. The second person who

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had spoken to Driscoll was a youth worker from a local charity which

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ran annual caravan holidays for people in care. He told us John

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Carroll attended these camps and he remembered many local dignitaries

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visiting or helping out. One of them he says was Paul Boateng. John

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Carroll would regularly talk about him being able to open doors for

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him. John Carroll believed he should have been someone far more

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significant. From your own recollections, you saw John Carroll

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with this man? Definitely. On how many occasions? Quite a few. There

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was a third piece of information in Driscoll's files. In the mid-19 80s

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John Carroll attempted to foster children. Lambeth supported this,

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but needed the neighbouring borough, Southwark, two second it. They

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refused. They discovered Carroll already had a conviction for child

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abuse dating back to the 1960s. Southwark couldn't believe Lambeth

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Council did not know about this and had not sacked him. Newsnight has

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been told the decision provoked a bitter row between the two Council.

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We have been told a few days later the official who took the decision

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to block the application received a phone call from a man who identified

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himself as Paul Boateng, although the official could not be sure it

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was him. The caller had asked him if there was anything he could do to

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help resolve the row around Carroll's posturing. The offer was

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not taken up. There is no suggestion they were aware of Carroll's

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previous conviction. Driscoll told colleagues he needed to talk to Paul

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Boateng in case he could shed light on Carol's activities. Then to his

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astonishment he was axed. One of those who knew Driscoll was about to

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approach Boateng was a senior Lambeth official, Nigel Goldie. But

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Goldie thought the detective had told too many people about his

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plans. He said he raised his concerns within Lambeth Council.

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Within days, Goldie had been spoken to by another police officer called

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Richard da Genie. He said he told him to forget about Driscoll and his

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Leeds. Clive had been suspended from the investigation and he was going

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to be disciplined. He had been interviewed and they found he had

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nothing and that to all intents and purposes the matter should be

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regarded as completely closed. Nothing more was going to be done

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about it. It should be left and I should not speak to anyone about it,

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were you surprised he had been removed? I was surprised, I was not

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expecting that kind of drastic action. Driscoll is also bemused.

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For him any claim that the product of his investigation had come to

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nothing did not make sense. He said he had not told anyone who he wanted

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to speak to or why. Did Driscoll get what he deserved, or was this a good

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excuse to get him out before he stirred up a political Hornets'

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nest? A secret internal, Scotland Yard report said Driscoll committed

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serious indiscretions, but it also refers to the political

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sensitivities that resulted in his removal from Lambeth. Like many

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senior officers at Scotland Yard, Driscoll had his critics and he

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admits he can be a bit of a bull in a china shot. But the disciplinary

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proceedings against him were quickly drop and his career soared.

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The Lawrence's family's long wait for justice. Two men are found

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guilty. Driscoll was rated as the detective

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who finally brought them to justice. Baroness Doreen Lawrence describes

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Driscoll as an officer with integrity. Driscoll says he

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subsequently handed over his notebooks and documents to Dyer

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Genie. He says they detail the progress he was making with people

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to contact. It was around the time that Driscoll was removed that car

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Genie was asked to run a new inquiry called operation Middleton. It was

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on a bigger scale and as well as police now involve a team of

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specially trained social workers. They were known as the child abuse

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in Lambeth team. But operation Middleton did not pick up where

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Driscoll had left off. John Carroll was no longer the sole focus of the

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enquiry. Instead detectives were tasked with looking at allegations

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of child abuse across all Lambeth's children's homes going back 20

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years. So what happened to Driscoll's documents, his Leeds, his

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notebooks? That is one of the key unanswered questions. Why? Because

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Teresa Johnson told us she did not hear from detectives again. This

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left her feeling distrustful of the police. Social workers contacted her

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some years later as part of a general sweep of all former staff,

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but she told us they never asked her about the information she had given

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Driscoll. In our investigation we met with a dozen times. She died in

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September last year. The charity worker from the caravan park was not

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spoken to either. He too lost faith in the police. The Southwark

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official who took the adoption call was never contacted either. Some

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officers in operation Middleton had told us they were unaware of the

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information Driscoll had compiled, information that had justified his

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plan to approach the minister. One confesses that Driscoll even told

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him, claimed that emphatically denies.

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There was another strand of information presented to police.

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Social workers discovered a document suggesting Paul Boateng and his wife

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had visited the Angel Road tempo in the mid-19 80s when John Carroll was

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in charge. We were told the information was passed to detectives

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on operation Muggleton. Social workers recognised the potential

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sensitivities and they were told it was discussed at the highest levels

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of the police and the Home Office. We put this to this attempt to Eddie

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said was unable to clarify the sequence of events because he did

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not have access to computer records in relation to operation Muggleton.

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He said was an ongoing enquiry and it would be inappropriate to comment

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further. None of this suggest that Paul Boateng has done anything

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wrong. And the police said they have never received any complaints about

:15:19.:15:22.

him. But might he have had information that could help the

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police investigation? Driscoll thought so. Regardless of the

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sensitivities. The new enquiry did not. Met officers we spoke to deny

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the bottled it and describe Middleton is a gold standard

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enquiry. So why is this important? In operation Muggleton posmack early

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days officers let it be known they had 40 offenders in their sights. It

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emerged that 60 alleged abusers had died. Another 19 could not be

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identified. At the end of the four-year enquiry the police secured

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three convictions. Operation Muggleton's final report noted it

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would be unreasonable to judge the success of the operation solely on

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the basis of the number of successful prosecutions. So where

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are we now put up as we make clear, there is no evidence that Lord

:16:15.:16:18.

Boateng did anything wrong. He has told us he only became aware of

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officer Carol Dzagoev Carol when he was arrested. He told us that as a

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campaigning lawyer he acted for many young people in care and met many of

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the social workers and visited many use facilities in the course of his

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work. He did not personally know Mr Carroll and had no recollection of

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meeting him professionally or visiting the Angel Road or anywhere

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else he was present. He told us he remembered the charity that he has

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no recollection of visiting during the caravan holidays. And he said he

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did not make the call to a council official. The statement added, I

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would be appalled if Mr Carroll was not properly investigated and

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children harmed as as a result. I'm unaware how the investigation into

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Mr Carroll was conducted and knew nothing about the matter is under

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investigation. So I cannot comment on why the police did not seek my

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assistance in connection with this matter. I would of course have been

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happy to assist. Scotland Yard launched its own internal review

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almost three years ago. It is now being overseen by the Independent

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Police Complaints Commission. Now just as God has made Lambeth a

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priority. The questions they're looking at go to the heart of

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policing. Officers take us to act without fear or favour. Did they do

:17:43.:17:52.

that in this case? -- take an oath. To try to help answer the question,

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just as God heard turned to this man. Raymond Stevenson was a boy in

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one of the Lambeth care homes. 18 months ago he set up a support group

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for survivors. He is now seeing more than 600 members.

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A music producer, he directed a video to highlight the issue of

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child abuse in Lambeth. He believes police avoided asking awkward

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questions. We have four pieces of information that appear to show a

:18:31.:18:33.

link, alleged link between Paul Boateng and John Carroll. You think

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that he should have been spoken to by the police?

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I know those links you're talking about and of course he should have

:18:45.:18:47.

been spoken to. Anyone with those connecting pieces of information

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should be spoken to, whoever they are.

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John Carroll now lives in the Midlands, he declined to speak to

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us. Here he is with children in his care, pictures never seen before. By

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Tansey was charming, terrifying, manipulative. -- by Tansey was

:19:07.:19:16.

charming. Newsnight held many conflict and stories about his world

:19:17.:19:22.

and to sell it but most can agree on one thing. The story of child abuse

:19:23.:19:25.

in Lambeth and the story of John Carroll has never been fully told.

:19:26.:19:31.

Well, Jake Morris carried out that investigation with Nick and I spoke

:19:32.:19:38.

Jake, we've seen one police investigation accused of being far

:19:39.:19:47.

too credulous, in this case the suggestion is the investigation

:19:48.:19:49.

Why do you think the police have such a chequered record in these

:19:50.:19:54.

Evan, I think manny police officers would say they're dammed if they do,

:19:55.:19:59.

and dammed if they don't when it comes to these kind of inquiries.

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There are lots of campaigners who believe the police repeatedly

:20:04.:20:06.

failed to do their job in the 1970s and the 1980s when dealing

:20:07.:20:09.

But there are some critics of the police who feel the pendulum

:20:10.:20:14.

And officers are now being overzealous in the way

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As we said, this is desperately difficult territory for the police.

:20:20.:20:26.

Because many of these allegations are about events that allegedly

:20:27.:20:29.

And also because of the incendiary nature of what is being suggested.

:20:30.:20:38.

Now, given that you and Nick in the report spell out very clearly

:20:39.:20:45.

that there is no evidence that Paul Boateng, Lord Boateng,

:20:46.:20:47.

did anything wrong, why did you feel it was important to name him

:20:48.:20:50.

We thought very long and hard about this and our feeling

:20:51.:20:57.

was to fully understand this story you needed to tell the particular

:20:58.:20:59.

sensitivities around this particular minister.

:21:00.:21:02.

Therefore we needed to say what job he did, and who he was.

:21:03.:21:05.

Paul Boateng wasn't just any influential figure,

:21:06.:21:08.

he was the man who was a minister with responsibility for the police.

:21:09.:21:14.

And he was also someone who had built his reputation and come

:21:15.:21:17.

to prominence as a lawyer who was often very critical

:21:18.:21:19.

Well Justice Goddard has said she will start looking at Lambeth

:21:20.:21:26.

this month and she has outlined what she is going to be looking at.

:21:27.:21:30.

And I quote - "allegations that there was inappropriate

:21:31.:21:34.

interference in law enforcement investigations, into the sexual

:21:35.:21:36.

abuse of children in the care of the council."

:21:37.:21:39.

As we also said, the police have been looking at this for nearly

:21:40.:21:42.

But there are witnesses we have spoken to who have told us they have

:21:43.:21:48.

lost faith in this review, who do not believe it

:21:49.:21:51.

will get to the bottom of what happened in Lambeth.

:21:52.:21:53.

So I think it fair to say Justice Goddard will have her work

:21:54.:21:56.

cut out to reassure them that on this occasion she really will get

:21:57.:21:59.

That name gives it the buzz of a sporting fixture

:22:00.:22:14.

or a reality TV event, but it is the biggest day

:22:15.:22:17.

of the season of US Presidential Primaries.

:22:18.:22:18.

Emily is there as votes are cast, in Nashville, Tennessee.

:22:19.:22:33.

Good evening from Nashville, Tennessee. It is the first time the

:22:34.:22:39.

state gets to vote in Super Tuesday and the day has acquired new

:22:40.:22:42.

significance because this is the moment we find out if Donald Trump

:22:43.:22:46.

is electrically unstoppable. For the past six months,

:22:47.:22:48.

the Republican party machine has careered between denial

:22:49.:22:50.

and acceptance of Trump The backlash against him is growing,

:22:51.:22:52.

but have the big guns of the GOP left it too late to endorse

:22:53.:23:06.

their preferred candidate, I put the question to a former

:23:07.:23:08.

presidential candidate. First a breakdown of how those

:23:09.:23:17.

numbers stack up. Held across 11 states

:23:18.:23:21.

in a territory, Super Tuesday spreads the election

:23:22.:23:24.

battleground across the country, from the Alaska caucus

:23:25.:23:25.

to American Samoa in the Pacific. You can see why it is a decisive

:23:26.:23:28.

day for candidates - nearly half of all Republican

:23:29.:23:31.

delegates are for grabs today. Meanwhile Hillary Clinton

:23:32.:23:33.

and Bernie Sanders will compete for 865, almost a third

:23:34.:23:39.

of their total number. Going into Super Tuesday,

:23:40.:23:44.

Clinton is ahead with 546. Donald Trump meanwhile

:23:45.:23:49.

is on 82 delegates. Marco Rubio is one behind him

:23:50.:23:53.

on just 16. Hillary Clinton is expected to win

:23:54.:24:04.

everywhere but Vermont - Sanders' home state -

:24:05.:24:07.

and Oklahoma which is tied. Trump is expected to win in ten out

:24:08.:24:11.

of the eleven states, the exception being Texas where

:24:12.:24:15.

Ted Cruz has the home advantage. In the beginning we used to talk

:24:16.:24:21.

about Trump having the angry voter, but our sense travelling around

:24:22.:24:25.

is that he has got much more than that, the suburban

:24:26.:24:29.

Republicans, college graduate Republicans, even perhaps

:24:30.:24:31.

the evangelicals. We start our piece

:24:32.:24:36.

in downtown Nashville. Nashville is to music

:24:37.:24:44.

what the Vatican is to prayer. A holy city of honky-tonk,

:24:45.:24:48.

country and western, It brings the believers

:24:49.:24:50.

out in force and even on a Monday night,

:24:51.:24:58.

Laila's Bluegrass Inn gets them The old hands and yes,

:24:59.:25:00.

the absolute beginner. Mike's band has been playing

:25:01.:25:13.

Nashville for decades, part of him mourns the changes

:25:14.:25:16.

he is seeing here. So when Trump appeared,

:25:17.:25:20.

or as another Nashville singer might put it, came in like a wrecking

:25:21.:25:23.

ball, the choice was easy. I had a paint business

:25:24.:25:26.

for 25 years, it took And when the politicians decided

:25:27.:25:28.

to let Mexico get up and move to Tennessee and take my business

:25:29.:25:34.

from me, it felt like my government and reached down and

:25:35.:25:38.

snatched my paint business away from me and handed it

:25:39.:25:43.

to a bunch of illegal immigrants. Mike has stressed

:25:44.:25:46.

to me his Christian What is curious is that even here,

:25:47.:25:48.

deep in the Bible Belt, that sense of faith no longer

:25:49.:25:53.

dictates where the vote goes. In this small town of Sparta

:25:54.:25:59.

in Tennessee, we counted 16 churches just driving around

:26:00.:26:01.

the neighbourhood. In other words, this is a part

:26:02.:26:04.

of the world with plenty Yet Donald Trump,

:26:05.:26:07.

three times married, criticised by the Pope

:26:08.:26:09.

for his non-Christian beliefs, leads the polls here

:26:10.:26:14.

by more than 10%. It is that kind of

:26:15.:26:16.

statistic that makes Over the border in Georgia,

:26:17.:26:18.

we join evangelicals to try and make It is a diverse congregation,

:26:19.:26:26.

ethnically and politically, and a preacher focused

:26:27.:26:31.

on Super Tuesday. And I know that in your minds,

:26:32.:26:35.

you're thinking, this candidate or this candidate, it is not

:26:36.:26:38.

easy to find somebody. Pastor Rouse won't name

:26:39.:26:40.

names, but you can detect I think, you know, we're

:26:41.:26:46.

going to see this election play out that a possible candidate will be

:26:47.:26:53.

elected purely because the whole If his message has

:26:54.:26:56.

urgency, it is because With half the Republican

:26:57.:27:02.

delegates up for grabs today, this contest can turbo propel

:27:03.:27:08.

whoever comes out on top Super Tuesday is when the southern

:27:09.:27:10.

states of America come Places like this, Tennessee,

:27:11.:27:15.

Alabama, Georgia, with a strong evangelical, blue-collar vote,

:27:16.:27:18.

might want to have gone for Ted More extraordinary than that,

:27:19.:27:21.

he is dominating with college graduates, with suburban

:27:22.:27:27.

Republicans, even with The classifications may be crude,

:27:28.:27:29.

but the big picture is clear. Of course the polling

:27:30.:27:35.

figures do not represent America, just a tiny Republican core

:27:36.:27:40.

who vote in primaries. But when you compare Trump

:27:41.:27:44.

to his nearest rivals, The Republican Party

:27:45.:27:55.

machine is looking They're currently grappling

:27:56.:27:58.

with what psychologists Somewhere between denial that

:27:59.:28:00.

Trump is going to win the nomination, and acceptance

:28:01.:28:04.

that it is all going to end up They want to know if he is

:28:05.:28:07.

stoppable, and what the nuclear Thus a flurry of endorsements

:28:08.:28:11.

from the GOP's big guns in the last 72 hours for Florida

:28:12.:28:15.

Senator Marco Rubio. Former presidential candidate

:28:16.:28:18.

Lamar Alexander and state Governor Bill Haslam have

:28:19.:28:21.

jetted into his rally I asked them if it

:28:22.:28:23.

is not all too late. There is a lot of election ahead

:28:24.:28:29.

of us, OK, and obviously But if you look at all those

:28:30.:28:32.

numbers, the longer people look at it, the more

:28:33.:28:36.

they are convinced he And if he doesn't win

:28:37.:28:38.

any of the states on Obviously the goal is

:28:39.:28:41.

to stay in the game. And I think you will see

:28:42.:28:45.

Marco Rubio out there And I honestly think those

:28:46.:28:47.

delegates will fall in place. You know what is like to run

:28:48.:28:52.

for president, at this point in the race, does it feel

:28:53.:28:55.

like there is desperation setting No, if I were Marco Rubio,

:28:56.:28:58.

I would be encouraged. Because he has got the money

:28:59.:29:02.

to continue and literally, we are in the second

:29:03.:29:04.

or third or fourth game The party is in a race

:29:05.:29:07.

against itself right now. Both Cruz and Rubio poll better

:29:08.:29:11.

against Hillary Clinton Yet that doesn't seem to be a factor

:29:12.:29:14.

in where the primary vote is going. Comedian Jon Stewart

:29:15.:29:24.

is blindingly brilliant You have to remember one

:29:25.:29:26.

thing about the will It wasn't that long ago

:29:27.:29:31.

we were all swept away I doubt they recognise

:29:32.:29:34.

the Macarena here in But whatever step they do make

:29:35.:29:38.

next, will need some And with me now is Senator

:29:39.:29:42.

Becky Duncan Massey, Republican member of

:29:43.:29:55.

the Tennessee Senate and a Rubio supporter, and Mark Winslow

:29:56.:29:57.

who is a member of the Tennessee GOP executive committee and is running

:29:58.:30:00.

as a delegate for Donald Trump. I think he has got a very good lead,

:30:01.:30:22.

but there will be a concerted effort to stop him. What do you make of the

:30:23.:30:27.

backlash, all the senators coming out for Rubio? We are seeing some

:30:28.:30:34.

coming out for Donald Trump, but change is difficult and a lot of

:30:35.:30:39.

people are afraid of the change he might bring. I described the mood in

:30:40.:30:45.

your party as crisis mode and when we were speaking to Senator

:30:46.:30:48.

Alexander yesterday, they sound like they are in denial. Polls are

:30:49.:30:55.

showing that Donald Trump is leading strongly. In any election you have a

:30:56.:31:03.

difference of opinions. You look at their policies, their experience,

:31:04.:31:07.

their faith and their character. That is where people make their

:31:08.:31:13.

decisions. What do you think the mainstream Republican party should

:31:14.:31:16.

have done differently if they had wanted to stop Donald Trump when

:31:17.:31:22.

they could? I think having 17 people in the race at the beginning made a

:31:23.:31:28.

big difference. It was hard for people to coalesce around one

:31:29.:31:30.

candidate and the race would have been a lot different if they had

:31:31.:31:35.

basically two front runner is from the beginning. This is democracy in

:31:36.:31:42.

action, this is how the Republicans are voting in the primaries, but

:31:43.:31:46.

when you look at the polls which suggest that either Rubio or Ted

:31:47.:31:52.

Cruz would do better against Hillary Clinton, are you not cutting off

:31:53.:31:57.

your nose despite your face? It is a long time until November and we will

:31:58.:32:04.

find out as we approach November whether Republicans begin to

:32:05.:32:09.

coalesce or not. You say they will coalesce, are you confident of that?

:32:10.:32:14.

We are hearing Republican voices who are saying if it is Donald Trump I

:32:15.:32:21.

am staying at home. I am hopeful. You are finding people like Governor

:32:22.:32:26.

Christie and several members of Congress, yesterday there was a

:32:27.:32:32.

member from Tennessee who came in supporting Donald Trump in his

:32:33.:32:36.

campaign. Change is hard and hopefully they will come around and

:32:37.:32:40.

understand we need to be united for the election in November. If Marco

:32:41.:32:44.

Rubio and Ted Cruz both do well tonight... Which I hope for. That

:32:45.:32:52.

will basically secured Donald Trump for longer. Well, it is narrowing

:32:53.:33:01.

down. There were five people in the last debate and they have to get 20%

:33:02.:33:10.

of the vote in Tennessee to get the proportional delegates. I believe at

:33:11.:33:15.

best there will only be three people that will get the delegates in

:33:16.:33:20.

Tennessee and that will keep the candidacy alive. Give us a sense of

:33:21.:33:26.

what this means for Tennessee. It is the first time it takes part in

:33:27.:33:30.

Super Tuesday and we have seen no real attack ads. How does that

:33:31.:33:37.

change the dynamic? We have not always had the number of adverts as

:33:38.:33:43.

in Iowa and New Hampshire, they had votes based on publicity. This time

:33:44.:33:49.

there have been some ads, but not enough resources have been put in at

:33:50.:33:55.

this stage. Are you expecting Donald Trump to win pretty much everything

:33:56.:34:02.

but Texas? If so, what is the fancy footwork that the mainstream of the

:34:03.:34:06.

party want if they are still intent on stopping him? They could accept

:34:07.:34:12.

the people's well. The good thing is in America you have one person, one

:34:13.:34:18.

vote. You go out and work each state and each area and there are people

:34:19.:34:23.

on the ground in every state and I am sure the candidacy will continue.

:34:24.:34:28.

Obviously I am strongly for Senator Rubio. He is the right candidate, he

:34:29.:34:34.

unites people, and I think the more he gets out, and we had 2000 people

:34:35.:34:43.

in Knoxville yesterday and 4000 in Franklin, and the majority of those

:34:44.:34:47.

votes were young people. It is great to see how many people are taking

:34:48.:34:51.

part and we will keep on working on it. Yesterday Donald Trump was

:34:52.:34:58.

blaming his earpiece when he had not been able to explain why it had

:34:59.:35:01.

taken him so long to distance himself from the Ku Klux Klan. Was

:35:02.:35:06.

that a moment of embarrassment for you as a supporter? No, when you

:35:07.:35:12.

have a first-time candidate who does not have all the political polish,

:35:13.:35:16.

you are going to have things like that now and then. You are joking.

:35:17.:35:25.

You are saying he is lacking the political polish? He has not been

:35:26.:35:29.

through the method of polish that the other candidates can and he has

:35:30.:35:33.

not been giving Senate floor speeches and he has not been in the

:35:34.:35:39.

arena. You take the sweet bumps with the positives. If he had said, yes I

:35:40.:35:48.

can accept the Ku Klux Klan endorsement, would that have put

:35:49.:35:53.

people off or not particularly? I do not know of any civilised person who

:35:54.:36:00.

believes represent everything. That shows character and if those are his

:36:01.:36:07.

beliefs, it would bother me significantly. I bet that is the

:36:08.:36:13.

biggest question, how much Donald Trump means what he says and how far

:36:14.:36:18.

he would go to implement some of the more extreme policies that he has

:36:19.:36:22.

discussed. We will know the result from here at about nine o'clock

:36:23.:36:26.

tonight. The polls show in a couple of hours' time and we will bring you

:36:27.:36:31.

all the race, including what is happening in the Democratic race

:36:32.:36:32.

tomorrow. Back in Europe, migrant numbers

:36:33.:36:34.

are building up in Greece, people unable to move north and west

:36:35.:36:37.

up through Macedonia. It is beginning to look horrifyingly

:36:38.:36:40.

like a humanitarian crisis. We have the figures

:36:41.:36:54.

for February now. People coming off boats from Turkey

:36:55.:36:56.

to Lesbos as in these pictures From the islands, the new arrivals

:36:57.:37:02.

get to Athens by ferry. Here are scenes today

:37:03.:37:08.

at the passenger terminal And that is where the

:37:09.:37:10.

latest problems start. Because people get to the border

:37:11.:37:23.

with Macedonia and then 9,000 or so camping

:37:24.:37:25.

in the fields near that border. The Macedonians now tightening

:37:26.:37:31.

the border to prevent any more Well, this is causing problems

:37:32.:37:34.

for Greece as the minister for citizen protection there,

:37:35.:37:44.

Nikos Toskas, explained I started by asking him

:37:45.:37:45.

about the situation There is a serious crisis,

:37:46.:37:49.

as I said, in the area. And this serious crisis is caused

:37:50.:37:55.

by the different wars in Syria, We did not start the wars,

:37:56.:37:58.

but we are receiving the results And various people are

:37:59.:38:07.

coming with nothing. We are providing them

:38:08.:38:16.

with the basic things, But they don't want to stay

:38:17.:38:22.

in the different camps, Only a small number

:38:23.:38:29.

of refugees are passing. Yesterday only 30 people

:38:30.:38:38.

passed from the borders. So this is a serious

:38:39.:38:43.

problem but unfortunately, a few European Union countries

:38:44.:38:48.

and a few Balkan countries are not dealing with the problem in

:38:49.:38:53.

a collective and comprehensible way. You said some of them are not

:38:54.:38:58.

behaving in a collective way. Name some names

:38:59.:39:04.

for me, if you would. The previous days, a decision

:39:05.:39:08.

was taken in Vienna. And so the decision really

:39:09.:39:13.

was the borders would be closed We have a different approach,

:39:14.:39:24.

we want, as I said, We believe European countries have

:39:25.:39:30.

to share the burden, European countries can receive

:39:31.:39:37.

a number of refugees. Most of the European countries have

:39:38.:39:43.

accepted this approach, but unfortunately there are other

:39:44.:39:46.

countries taking their own path. And they're taking care only

:39:47.:39:51.

of their national interest and not the collective interest

:39:52.:39:56.

of the European Union. What can Greece do to put pressure

:39:57.:40:00.

on its European partners, what can you do to say, guys,

:40:01.:40:05.

you have to do what you have said you're going to do and you have

:40:06.:40:08.

got to help us here? Many times we requested

:40:09.:40:12.

from the European Union to deal One year ago they thought that this

:40:13.:40:17.

was only a problem which affected only the southern areas

:40:18.:40:27.

and especially Greece. Later on they realised that these

:40:28.:40:32.

flows were affecting And so they started dealing more

:40:33.:40:36.

seriously about the problem. So they started trying to find ways,

:40:37.:40:45.

to find solutions for the problem. The real solution will be the ending

:40:46.:40:53.

of the war to the areas which are the sources

:40:54.:40:58.

of the problem in Syria, One final question

:40:59.:41:01.

if you would, Minister. What effect do you think this

:41:02.:41:09.

is having on Greek society? We are receiving everyday 2,500

:41:10.:41:13.

immigrants and refugees. We are in the middle

:41:14.:41:19.

of a financial crisis, so we have two real

:41:20.:41:23.

crises in the country. The financial and

:41:24.:41:27.

the refugee problem. We cannot be the black

:41:28.:41:30.

hole of Europe. We need support from the different

:41:31.:41:33.

countries and we need a real solution for the flows

:41:34.:41:42.

and the problem. Minister Toskas, thank

:41:43.:41:50.

you very much indeed. We'll wake up to American

:41:51.:41:57.

politics I dare say, but before we go to bed,

:41:58.:42:01.

a bit of South Korea, where the filibuster to end

:42:02.:42:04.

all filibusters is still under way. Opposition MPs there protesting

:42:05.:42:06.

at anti-terrorism legislation started their attempt to talk it out

:42:07.:42:08.

back on February 23rd and they have I can't tell you what they're

:42:09.:42:11.

saying, but at this point,

:42:12.:42:19.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis.

Including a special investigation into what put a stop to a police inquiry into abuse in children's homes, Trump and Super Tuesday, and Greece and the migrant crisis.


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