02/03/2016 Newsnight


02/03/2016

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It's looking like Donald Trump will challenge for the White House.

:00:10.:00:12.

But can the Republican party defy their grassroots to pull off

:00:13.:00:14.

I am a unifier. Believe me I am a unifier. Once we get all of this

:00:15.:00:24.

finished, I am going to go after one person, that is Hillary Clinton.

:00:25.:00:27.

Governor Chris Christie may now be officially unified.

:00:28.:00:29.

But will the other candidates come in line?

:00:30.:00:33.

Many of us thought Super Tuesday would herred are a victor that would

:00:34.:01:03.

take the race on the White House, but it hasn't. Hillary Clinton

:01:04.:01:07.

performed well, but her rival Bernie Sanders is still in play. And on the

:01:08.:01:13.

other side, Republican moderates are sensing there may be one last chance

:01:14.:01:17.

to stop Donald Trump, but can they? And if so, how? We will ask guests

:01:18.:01:22.

in a moment but first a look at the big picture of the night.

:01:23.:01:25.

The night was Hillary Clinton's. The night was Donald Trump's.

:01:26.:01:34.

But for anyone expecting the Coronation of either candidate, it

:01:35.:01:39.

didn't come. Not quite. The picture has become more confusing, and for

:01:40.:01:46.

political wons more interesting. Bernie Sanders outperformed his poll

:01:47.:01:53.

predictions. Hilary got the other seven.

:01:54.:01:59.

And on the Republican side, although Trump won in seven states, Ted Cruz

:02:00.:02:04.

made significant inroads into his domination winning Oklahoma, Alaska

:02:05.:02:09.

and his home state of Texas. Even Rubio who had failed to take any

:02:10.:02:14.

state before last night got his first win in Minnesota. So the

:02:15.:02:20.

question now for Republicans is what happens next. Mr Donald Trump. One

:02:21.:02:26.

of the things commentators here ask is whether Donald Trump has a

:02:27.:02:30.

mandate to lead the Republican party. It may seem a strange thing

:02:31.:02:36.

to ask at this point, after so much air but when it comes down to hard

:02:37.:02:43.

facts he has only received 34% of the Republican primary vote. If Cruz

:02:44.:02:49.

and Rubio were one person, let us call them Crubio they would have

:02:50.:02:53.

beaten Trump in some places, where he won but he didn't as he might

:02:54.:02:58.

say, win Bigley. The Republican party knows that that is the

:02:59.:03:01.

problem, that Trump will only be stopped if one of the others will

:03:02.:03:05.

drop out. The trouble is, they can't choose which one.

:03:06.:03:11.

Last night, a consciously court US Ted Cruz called on all the

:03:12.:03:15.

candidates who hadn't won to pull out. Candidates, who have not won a

:03:16.:03:21.

state. Who have not racked up significant delegates. I ask you to

:03:22.:03:27.

consider our coming together. You nighted. He didn't know at this

:03:28.:03:34.

stage Rubio had taken Minnesota. There have been suggestions today,

:03:35.:03:38.

that the party may coalesce round Cruz now but even that would be with

:03:39.:03:43.

a heavy heart. One Senator Lyndsey Graham joked that if Cruz were

:03:44.:03:47.

murdered on the Senate floor, no-one would be convicted. One thing you

:03:48.:03:51.

hear that really isn't true, I mean they count everyone who doesn't, at

:03:52.:03:55.

least in the Republican primary even who doesn't vote for Trump if that

:03:56.:04:02.

is an anti-Trump vote. No, usually the supporters of other candidates

:04:03.:04:05.

of the also ran, the guy they hate the most is the front runner, the

:04:06.:04:11.

same all the colleges in the US hate Harvard the most. Once Trump is the

:04:12.:04:17.

nominee there is no evidence that the Cruz voters v Rubio voters they

:04:18.:04:22.

will go to one another. A lot of Jeb Bush's voters wented up going to

:04:23.:04:29.

Trump. The irony is it is one of their own make, they created the

:04:30.:04:32.

political phenomenon of Trump when Mitt Romney won the nomination four

:04:33.:04:36.

years ago. They called on Trump not for his policy brilliance or ideas

:04:37.:04:42.

on taxation, but for his ability to build a base that derequested the

:04:43.:04:47.

legitimacy of Obama's American identity, the argument. Mitt Romney

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marched to Vegas to receive Trump's benediction buzz in reality that was

:04:55.:05:00.

the moment the GOP endorsed Trump. I think they are shocked, stunned and

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mortified, not just embarrassed but a lot the traditional leadership is

:05:06.:05:09.

mortified by the existence and the success of Donald Trump. What he has

:05:10.:05:16.

done he has resonated with a small Swat of American voters, who are

:05:17.:05:20.

very vocal and loyal to him, but the reality is there are many people who

:05:21.:05:25.

now accept he might win the Republican nomination, I haven't met

:05:26.:05:30.

a single person who believe that he has a chance of withining -- winning

:05:31.:05:36.

the presidency. What of the slightly sorry slightly startled figure of

:05:37.:05:40.

Chris Christie in this, ens doing Trump. He will no doubt be hoping

:05:41.:05:44.

for a Vice-Presidential role if things go well. If they don't, the

:05:45.:05:48.

mainstream Republican party may look on him, their own man, as the

:05:49.:05:56.

ultimate Brutus the betrayer. What of Hillary Clinton. She is by

:05:57.:06:01.

far the most qualified candidate for the job. Major executive positions,

:06:02.:06:05.

intimate knowledge of the White House and how it works, yet not all

:06:06.:06:09.

of this is working in her favour. She is viewed as the establishment,

:06:10.:06:13.

and more Kerrouchely perhaps as the one with the most questions to

:06:14.:06:17.

answer to the electorate. Mark Urban looks as the challenges facing the

:06:18.:06:20.

democratic favourite. America it seems is going to get a

:06:21.:06:35.

clear choice. Not between left and right or what passes for that in the

:06:36.:06:39.

US, but between insider and outsider.

:06:40.:06:45.

Trump the ultimate populist insurgent, versus Clinton, steeped

:06:46.:06:49.

in the black arts of Washington, Sion of the belt way. It is

:06:50.:06:53.

certainly in any other election it would be something that really

:06:54.:06:57.

helped her. She has decades of experience in public service and in

:06:58.:07:01.

politics, in this particular campaign, in which both parties are

:07:02.:07:06.

looking for outsiders. It has become a liability to her, she has been a

:07:07.:07:09.

leader in the party for years but it is true that she is sort of a

:07:10.:07:15.

technocrat, she is a won, the things that make her a good civil servant

:07:16.:07:19.

and make the people work for her and who have worked for her really like

:07:20.:07:23.

her, are not things that necessarily lend themselves well to the

:07:24.:07:27.

campaign, so that is an unfortunate thing she has to work with. Eight

:07:28.:07:32.

years as first lady, a two term Senator and four years as America's

:07:33.:07:37.

chief diplomat. Has a record of public service, it is enormously

:07:38.:07:40.

impressive. At each stage though, access to

:07:41.:07:44.

power has brought with its controversy. From whitewater to the

:07:45.:07:51.

death of Americans in Benghazi to the question as whether of Secretary

:07:52.:07:57.

of State she sent private e-mails full of classified information He,

:07:58.:08:02.

the security clearance is unbelievably remain intact, at this

:08:03.:08:05.

time even though they are under investigation by the FBI, says is a

:08:06.:08:08.

lot about how power works in Washington, that a lot of Americans

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are not going to like. On a purely political front there is nothing

:08:13.:08:15.

stopping Hillary Clinton from being democratic nominee at this point.

:08:16.:08:20.

She did well on Super Tuesday. Bernie Sanders is a protest

:08:21.:08:25.

candidate, nothing more, she will be the democratic nominee unless she is

:08:26.:08:29.

arrested. We won with poorly educated. I love them. If you want

:08:30.:08:35.

to see how anger business takes its form you need look no further than

:08:36.:08:39.

the Trump campaign, and whereas somehow this contender can use

:08:40.:08:45.

highly provocative language. For the democratic front runner stirring

:08:46.:08:48.

support through competence rather this than charisma isn't always

:08:49.:08:52.

easy. You don't want the conversation to be about change. He

:08:53.:08:58.

or she, who dictates the debate in politics is the one who will win the

:08:59.:09:06.

debate. If the campaign unfolding is primarily a conversation about

:09:07.:09:08.

change, I think it benefitted Donald Trump. If the campaign moving

:09:09.:09:13.

forward is more about bringing our country together, finding common

:09:14.:09:19.

solutions to our problem, knowing, knowing policy, and knowing how to

:09:20.:09:23.

get things done for middle class American, I think Hillary Clinton

:09:24.:09:26.

will do very well, and that will be the job of her campaign, to dictate

:09:27.:09:30.

what the debate unfolding in the fall is going to be about.

:09:31.:09:34.

Last night she tried to relaunch herself, as national heal eraer this

:09:35.:09:41.

than won. I believe what we need in America today is more love and

:09:42.:09:46.

kindness. Instead of building walls we are

:09:47.:09:57.

going to bring down barriers and build... Build ladders of

:09:58.:10:01.

opportunity and empowerment. The rejection of conhaven't shulal

:10:02.:10:05.

politics has gone so broad in America it has produced a political

:10:06.:10:09.

insurgency on the left in the shape of Bernie Sanders. Hillary Clinton

:10:10.:10:12.

might have been hoping to see him off in short order, but in truth it

:10:13.:10:18.

is the very depth of her experience, which has become as much of a

:10:19.:10:25.

liability as an asset. For all too many, Washington's

:10:26.:10:29.

compromises reek of betrayals and knowledge of its ways suggests an

:10:30.:10:33.

acceptance of its faults. But of course it remains the shining prize

:10:34.:10:37.

for whoever is best able to tap America's mood.

:10:38.:10:48.

So where does the race go. Priscilla writes for the Atlantic and Scotty

:10:49.:10:52.

is one of the finder of the Tea Party news network.

:10:53.:11:00.

Did you think Trump Trump would be able to say I am the nominee? No, I

:11:01.:11:06.

didn't. You look add Texas, that was a key state, 155 delegate votes and

:11:07.:11:13.

that was where Ted Cruz put his emphasis in. You look at Oklahoma

:11:14.:11:19.

and Arkansas where you don't have cross over voters, he was going to

:11:20.:11:23.

look good in those. There is a lot of passion in the top three

:11:24.:11:27.

candidates and supporters, and they are not going to sit down today and

:11:28.:11:31.

say I give up. I knew it would go until March 15th. The real question

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is after then, are we going to be down to a two person race or could

:11:36.:11:42.

it be an overwhelmingly one? As soon as you saw Marco Rubio win

:11:43.:11:47.

Minnesota, Ted Cruz win Oklahoma as well as taxes a, you realise the

:11:48.:11:50.

longer they are in play, the easier it is for Donald Trump, right? Yes

:11:51.:11:57.

and no. We are seeing an interesting dynamic, to Marco Rubio, he lost

:11:58.:12:01.

Virginia, and a lot of those votes are at least over 66,000 went to

:12:02.:12:06.

John, they are looking for the establishment line to coalesce

:12:07.:12:09.

behind one candidate. They are having a hard time doing that.

:12:10.:12:14.

Donald Trump is sweeping the States and taking so many delegates, so

:12:15.:12:19.

until we have that, the two lanes deso ciphered we are having a hard

:12:20.:12:24.

time with the voters. When you look at the mainstream Republicans, if we

:12:25.:12:27.

can call them that, did you understand where they are going,

:12:28.:12:31.

what their game is? One minute they are saying we want it to be Rubio,

:12:32.:12:36.

then Cruz looks like he is going to get the most delegates so they are

:12:37.:12:41.

flip-flopping between who they are going to back. These are the people

:12:42.:12:45.

who have been the last eight years of an election cycle have controlled

:12:46.:12:49.

this party and give us more losers than we have had winners. Now they

:12:50.:12:53.

are trying to figure out who to get behind. Ion if we will see them get

:12:54.:12:59.

behind a Ted Cruz, won't get behind a Donald Trump as of now, but they

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created this problem, they were the ones that front loaded this primary

:13:05.:13:07.

season, thinking that I would have their candidate. It hasn't happened.

:13:08.:13:11.

They are not happy about it. Is Donald Trump as a phenomenon bigger

:13:12.:13:16.

than his numbers actually make him? When you look, the numbers who vote

:13:17.:13:22.

in the primaries are tiny, and he is only getting 34.7% of the vote. Is

:13:23.:13:26.

this whole thing overplayed when you put it to a much wider electorate?

:13:27.:13:31.

It is interesting. The early voting states, where he became the three

:13:32.:13:36.

time victor, he, those states are retail politics, they were on the

:13:37.:13:41.

ground, campaigning, but Super Tuesday rewards the media exposure,

:13:42.:13:45.

that is what we got here. From now on, forward his how much tum is

:13:46.:13:48.

driven by what people saw on Super Tuesday. You don't really sigh the

:13:49.:13:54.

attack ads They are certainly perhaps on the horizon, but that is

:13:55.:13:58.

what Super Tuesday does. I gives them that media exposure. How do you

:13:59.:14:04.

explain for example Donald Trump winning Hispanics in Nevada. That

:14:05.:14:07.

seems to be contrary to everything he said, with the Mexicans, the wall

:14:08.:14:13.

and yet he pulls in, I don't know how... When you think about it this

:14:14.:14:17.

idea of building a wall with a big door to come in, those folks that

:14:18.:14:21.

are already in the United States who have spent the tens of thousands of

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dollars, went through the process of getting to be a citizen, they will

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say why should they get it for free when I have had to put so much in

:14:30.:14:35.

and risk so much? Those of us here as children or grandchildren of

:14:36.:14:39.

immigrants that lost people on Ellis islands... Is that what Hispanics

:14:40.:14:44.

are saying? The ones that are voting, that is why you have seeing

:14:45.:14:48.

a huge crowd that like Donald Trump. Do you agree with that? It is

:14:49.:14:54.

correct. Voters, 8% of Caucasus goers were Latino, it is true that

:14:55.:14:59.

Donald Trump had a commanding lead. Now, our 8% of Caucasus goers are

:15:00.:15:02.

they going to be representative of the country? That is what we will

:15:03.:15:09.

find out. Texas is another big states for Hispanics, that is where

:15:10.:15:15.

they came out for Ted Cruz. Those people were strong on immigration,

:15:16.:15:19.

and so that is where you see that whole, it is an interesting dynamic.

:15:20.:15:27.

Before we go to the Democratic race, is Hillary Clinton out of the push

:15:28.:15:38.

or does Bernie Sanders have a chance? He is still in there but

:15:39.:15:42.

whether that translates to moving forward, we will find out. Hillary

:15:43.:15:45.

Clinton had a sweeping victory and we do not expect that to loosen up.

:15:46.:15:50.

What we have been seeking, as marker and put in his piece, is the sense

:15:51.:15:53.

that there are people on either side who do not like their own candidates

:15:54.:15:56.

or the person they think their candidate will be. Is that going to

:15:57.:16:00.

be a political cross-dressing? Are we going to seep Republicans for

:16:01.:16:04.

Hillary and Democrats for Trump because neither like what their own

:16:05.:16:08.

party has given up? You have mentioned the massive success of the

:16:09.:16:12.

Secretary of State. We estimate that almost 20,000 Democrats have crossed

:16:13.:16:16.

over, and with overwhelming numbers, we could see that justified. But the

:16:17.:16:21.

question is, is there a crossover from a Republican standpoint? These

:16:22.:16:30.

are the same blue dog Democrats that swapped over before? That Israeli

:16:31.:16:35.

hardliner. You are prepared to lose voters. Regarding cross-dressing, we

:16:36.:16:40.

will see that on immigration, perhaps, but I don't know. It is

:16:41.:16:44.

hard to predict. It is a very unpredictable race and there is

:16:45.:16:49.

anger. You see it in the polls, they are angry at the establishment. And

:16:50.:16:54.

it is all about ego. It is all about ego on both sides of the aisle. The

:16:55.:17:00.

reason that our guests have been talking about March the 15th is that

:17:01.:17:03.

is the day that Florida comes into play. Florida is crucial, white,

:17:04.:17:08.

because it is Marco Rubio's home state and that is the one where he

:17:09.:17:14.

could win big. 99 delegates up for the count. The other reason, taking

:17:15.:17:18.

your mind back to 2000, remember how tightly contested that was as a

:17:19.:17:23.

state. Florida is a game changer and they are not going to lose a

:17:24.:17:26.

candidate who could win Florida before they see how he does there.

:17:27.:17:30.

The EU has announced it will disburse 700 million euros

:17:31.:17:33.

in emergency aid to help member countries cope with the migrant

:17:34.:17:35.

crisis, and to quell increasingly violent scenes -

:17:36.:17:37.

particularly on Greece's northern border with Macedonia.

:17:38.:17:43.

However the news has not brought early relief for the more than ten

:17:44.:17:46.

thousand migrants there living in dreadful conditions.

:17:47.:17:48.

Only a small number of Syrians and Iraqis were let

:17:49.:17:51.

through the closed border - fewer than 300, when it was

:17:52.:17:54.

Gabriel Gatehouse is in Thessaloniki tonight.

:17:55.:18:06.

Kirsty, 700 million euros is the kind of money that Europe usually

:18:07.:18:12.

reserves for tackling humanitarian emergencies in war zones, disaster

:18:13.:18:17.

zones. They are making it clear that this money is not coming out of the

:18:18.:18:21.

pot that it usually uses for relief outside of the EU, but the size of

:18:22.:18:27.

this money does make it clear how seriously they are taking this

:18:28.:18:29.

migration crisis and also it underlines the fact that they are

:18:30.:18:33.

not expecting this migration crisis to let up any time soon.

:18:34.:18:42.

But is there an EU wide strategy for dealing with the migration crisis?

:18:43.:18:49.

Does this signify a new Europe? We are now way clearer to that. You can

:18:50.:18:53.

throw as much money as this crisis as you like, as many tents and

:18:54.:18:56.

shelters and meals for the hundreds of thousands coming here, but that

:18:57.:19:00.

is not going to stop the people from wanting to come here. Some people

:19:01.:19:05.

say that it might even encourage more people to want to come but what

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we are not seeing is any kind of unified strategy from the EU to try

:19:10.:19:13.

to tackle this problem at the root. On Monday, there will be a big

:19:14.:19:17.

meeting between the EU and Turkey to try to persuade the Turks yet again

:19:18.:19:23.

to limit the border crossings from Greece into Turkey, but more

:19:24.:19:26.

importantly, perhaps, there is no strategy for what to do with the

:19:27.:19:30.

migrants still coming, and who are there already. The Greeks and the

:19:31.:19:34.

Germans want some kind of quota system, mandatory quarters that will

:19:35.:19:38.

be taken by all the member states, with many member states including

:19:39.:19:42.

Britain adamantly against this. Others are following suit, most

:19:43.:19:45.

notably Austria, who have been limiting the numbers coming in. That

:19:46.:19:49.

has had a trickle-down effect all the way here to the Greek and

:19:50.:19:53.

Macedonian border, where we are seeing this big build-up of people

:19:54.:19:57.

at the border, just about an hour north.

:19:58.:20:02.

Not to this journey, nor to the constant stream of people

:20:03.:20:08.

They are making their way towards a frontier that

:20:09.:20:18.

Many have come from Syria, or from Iraq.

:20:19.:20:27.

Somewhere at the end of this road they believe lies a promised land.

:20:28.:20:39.

But Europe itself is in crisis, as it struggles to figure out

:20:40.:20:42.

At the border, a tent city has sprung up, and it is growing fast.

:20:43.:20:53.

Today's promise of EU money is perhaps a sticking plaster,

:20:54.:20:56.

but with hundreds, maybe thousands arriving every day,

:20:57.:20:58.

In two or three weeks we will have 100,000 people in Greece.

:20:59.:21:07.

So it means that European countries will have to take a decision.

:21:08.:21:10.

I know today there is a meeting in order to give some money

:21:11.:21:13.

for Greece, but it is more than this, it is to find a common

:21:14.:21:17.

solution among the different countries, in order

:21:18.:21:18.

Greece wants EU member states to agree on a quota system

:21:19.:21:25.

So does Germany, which took in more than one million people last year.

:21:26.:21:30.

But the countries in between do not agree.

:21:31.:21:35.

On the Macedonian side of the border today,

:21:36.:21:37.

we saw police from Slovakia, the Czech Republic and Austria.

:21:38.:21:44.

Their aim is to keep the migrants out.

:21:45.:21:49.

"Save our children, open the borders", they chant.

:21:50.:21:53.

Two days ago, they forced their way through this fence, only to be

:21:54.:21:56.

pushed back by the Macedonian riot police, who fired tear gas

:21:57.:21:59.

I am not from Daesh, I am not from al-Nusra,

:22:00.:22:18.

I am just a man, I have children, want to live in peace.

:22:19.:22:26.

After the incident on Monday, Macedonia closed the

:22:27.:22:28.

As a crowd gathered at the crossing this morning, tempers began to fray.

:22:29.:22:35.

It looks like they are preparing to let a small number through.

:22:36.:22:38.

Only about 100 or so, the police say here.

:22:39.:22:41.

Meanwhile, there are hundreds upon hundreds arriving all the time.

:22:42.:22:49.

Of the handful we saw cross, most were immediately sent back,

:22:50.:22:51.

either because they weren't from Iraq or Syria,

:22:52.:22:53.

or because their papers weren't in order.

:22:54.:22:57.

The Greek Prime Minister has warned his country is becoming

:22:58.:23:00.

a warehouse of souls, trapped, half way along

:23:01.:23:02.

As the numbers build up, so does the tension.

:23:03.:23:15.

They are saying a woman just tried to set herself on fire just now.

:23:16.:23:20.

They carry her off in search of a doctor.

:23:21.:23:24.

Her children have already crossed the border, friends tell us.

:23:25.:23:26.

For her, the waiting has become too much.

:23:27.:23:33.

An estimated 40% of the people waiting to cross at the border

:23:34.:23:36.

This couple spent thousands of euros to get this far from their home

:23:37.:23:44.

All of this uncertainty is beginning to take its toll on them,

:23:45.:23:50.

Because you left everything, your memories, your family,

:23:51.:23:58.

because my mum is still there, my sister is still there,

:23:59.:24:00.

When we decide to come, only for future of our kids.

:24:01.:24:11.

Did you expect it to be like this?

:24:12.:24:13.

Expected it would be better, because we hear that maybe we stay

:24:14.:24:21.

here only three hours, or one day, and not too

:24:22.:24:23.

We hope they can, the European Union, they can take

:24:24.:24:29.

Because we are already crossing the border.

:24:30.:24:34.

It is not just the migrants and the refugees who

:24:35.:24:40.

It is being felt here in Greece, and beyond this border fence,

:24:41.:24:45.

There must be something so tantalising about these tracks,

:24:46.:24:53.

one single railway network connecting the whole of Europe.

:24:54.:25:02.

But this is potentially the most serious crisis to face

:25:03.:25:04.

At the moment, it's simply failing to provide an answer.

:25:05.:25:10.

This country is in the grip of a crippling economic crisis.

:25:11.:25:14.

It surely cannot cope with this influx on its own.

:25:15.:25:24.

But the other nations of the EU, also weary of austerity,

:25:25.:25:27.

are implacably divided over how much they can,

:25:28.:25:29.

It's being heralded as a great scientific breakthrough -

:25:30.:25:34.

It's called IRF4 and you can bet your bottom dollar women,

:25:35.:25:44.

in particular, will soon be bombarded with drug products

:25:45.:25:46.

But why is grey such a problem, equated with decrepitude rather

:25:47.:26:02.

It's a subject close to the heart of Mary Beard, who I'll be

:26:03.:26:06.

But first, when many young women are actively embracing grey,

:26:07.:26:09.

why is it such a big no-no for many of the rest of us?

:26:10.:26:13.

How would it feel if I was grey for a day?

:26:14.:26:25.

Next, up to the Newsnight office. My goodness! Wasn't really that

:26:26.:26:37.

shocking? So why is it that so many women just won't risk grave. The big

:26:38.:26:41.

story is that grey does not suit them. They were born with a natural

:26:42.:26:47.

colour and the grey starts to come through and it makes them feel like

:26:48.:26:50.

they are getting older. The ones that youthful Shane back in their

:26:51.:27:07.

hair. -- youthful Shane. Can Franklin, the fashion industry

:27:08.:27:10.

specialist, has been great since her early 30s, so what she make of the

:27:11.:27:14.

announcement that scientists have discovered a grey Jean? I have to

:27:15.:27:21.

daughters and we know as of today that part of the reason is genetic.

:27:22.:27:25.

If you were able to screen it out, to take a magical pill, what would

:27:26.:27:32.

you have done? My oldest daughter is 23 and she says that she better get

:27:33.:27:37.

a white streak or else. I hope I have got your package, ma'am, is

:27:38.:27:41.

what she says. She has seen it and sees that it is distinctive but she

:27:42.:27:46.

has also seen her friends in their early 20s say to me, I love your

:27:47.:27:48.

hair. For one enterprising young woman, Gray was a

:27:49.:28:05.

brilliant business idea. I built my business on grey. It was the first

:28:06.:28:09.

hair colour we ever did and I did it as a teenager on people in my

:28:10.:28:14.

bathroom at home. On other teenagers? Yes, people working in

:28:15.:28:18.

the fashion industry. And it kind of kick-started the bleach empire. Do

:28:19.:28:22.

you think there is a double standard between men and women going great?

:28:23.:28:26.

Yes, there is a double standard with all ageing. Men become more

:28:27.:28:29.

attractive and more intelligent as they get older, there is the Silver

:28:30.:28:35.

fox but there is no silver vixen. Maybe we are following this trend

:28:36.:28:42.

and we will start that. Time to find a silver fox. Where would he be but

:28:43.:28:49.

in the make-up chair? A silver fox in his den. The Queen of Scotland

:28:50.:28:53.

has arrived. Is this all your own colour? I have been a silver fox

:28:54.:29:02.

since I was 35. Not so long ago. And you have never been under pressure?

:29:03.:29:06.

Do you think the standards are different? What women in television

:29:07.:29:10.

are great? You look good grey but what is wrong with that? It is very

:29:11.:29:16.

itchy. Is it self-imposed pressure? I think some of my male colleagues

:29:17.:29:19.

will dye their hair because they think they look better. Otherwise

:29:20.:29:24.

why do it? Or is it a pressure thing to look younger? Name names. I can't

:29:25.:29:29.

but some of them are no longer working in this country. The US

:29:30.:29:36.

elections are very interesting, don't you think? I have been

:29:37.:29:42.

exploring how different people have reacted to women with grey hair and

:29:43.:29:45.

we have had some interesting social media reaction to my hair. This is

:29:46.:29:49.

the female equivalent of a middle-aged man turning up to work

:29:50.:29:56.

in a Harley-Davidson. Nice to see Andy water hole back on our screens.

:29:57.:30:02.

That was what I thought! The female equivalent of Paxman's beard.

:30:03.:30:05.

Subverting the male domination of the broadcasters, good going. All

:30:06.:30:19.

good fun, but Mary Beard, this is not just a funny issue. Why is it

:30:20.:30:22.

that women feel so compelled? We will talk about the scientific

:30:23.:30:25.

evidence in a minute. Why is it? Were talking about this on the

:30:26.:30:28.

programme I have been making, which goes out on Friday morning. That is

:30:29.:30:32.

a consistent refrain, I don't want to look old, I want to look younger

:30:33.:30:35.

and I thought that if I was grey, people would not notice me. I would

:30:36.:30:43.

no longer be a human, noticeable person. What I think is really

:30:44.:30:49.

interesting about that is partly what you are showing us, because I

:30:50.:30:55.

think you look just the same age as when you have your other colour

:30:56.:31:01.

here. And I don't think you look, in fact I think you look more

:31:02.:31:05.

impressive and authoritative. You don't look like granny sitting by

:31:06.:31:11.

the fire. I think first of all there is a kind of misunderstanding of

:31:12.:31:15.

what going grey does to you. Illion people last year, the but the

:31:16.:31:20.

countries in between do not agree. On the Macedonian side o It has been

:31:21.:31:23.

going on for many year, there are Roman women 2,000 years ago who used

:31:24.:31:27.

to do what we do, pull the first grey hairs out and think I am going

:31:28.:31:34.

to go bald. If the 16th century, witches, long grey hair but you

:31:35.:31:38.

know, otherness. But I think you have two things going on here. One

:31:39.:31:45.

is a sense that grey signals old and I don't want to be old, but I think

:31:46.:31:53.

that relates to, to a bigger issue about ageing, whether it is in

:31:54.:31:57.

public or whether it is in the workplace, and, and in a sense, it

:31:58.:32:03.

relates to a kind of problem about how old women in particular should

:32:04.:32:08.

feel that they can be. Look I am 61, this is what a 61-year-old woman

:32:09.:32:13.

looks like, I am fine with that. And if I were to colour my hair, what I

:32:14.:32:17.

would be saying, is, I don't want to be what I am. And I am happy to be

:32:18.:32:23.

what I am. It is interesting because you can count on two hands the men

:32:24.:32:29.

in the BBC who have grey hair and Narey a woman among them. Is it self

:32:30.:32:35.

imposed attitudes or is there an attitude to women who are grey and

:32:36.:32:40.

the perception of them on the media? Think that it is classic gender

:32:41.:32:47.

divide like we were hearing, like you get an old craggy silver fox,

:32:48.:32:55.

sits on the television, reads the news, compares discussions, with

:32:56.:32:59.

authority. And the fear is, I think I am really interesting in seeing

:33:00.:33:04.

you like you are like tonight, it is undermining that fear, the fear is a

:33:05.:33:09.

woman having grey share, she just looks, it works against her

:33:10.:33:13.

authority. She looks like somebody we don't have to notice any more.

:33:14.:33:17.

So, there is two things happening as well. The whole kind of air and make

:33:18.:33:21.

up industry, feeds into this notion of do anything to get rid of the

:33:22.:33:27.

grey, that then is compounded by the scientific research which says that

:33:28.:33:31.

there will be very soon a therapy because it is genetic which will get

:33:32.:33:36.

rid of the grey. Do you think there is setting up backwards? I think it

:33:37.:33:40.

is keeping us at the same place. What do we do? We rinse or tint or

:33:41.:33:46.

colour, to get rid of the grey, in ten, 20, 30 Greers time, if we are

:33:47.:33:51.

rich, we will take some genetic treatment which will stop us going

:33:52.:33:56.

grey. Actually I want to say come on, this is going grey, it is not

:33:57.:34:01.

about your genes it is about getting mature. But, when you talk to the

:34:02.:34:06.

hairdresser in the salon who said, the problem is that women, because

:34:07.:34:10.

of how they are viewed, do not have any confidence they want, and they

:34:11.:34:14.

feel, and also they feel invisible. That is true. That is about

:34:15.:34:20.

education in schools about programme, the way they are treated

:34:21.:34:24.

in the Health Service, how they get on in their daily lives. The trouble

:34:25.:34:30.

is more prominent women decide to colour their hair because that is

:34:31.:34:34.

the only way they can see they can make it in their careers, the more

:34:35.:34:42.

the problem is compounded. You know, there are some good models.

:34:43.:34:47.

Christine Lagarde and you can say, look, you can be, alxxxx actually

:34:48.:34:53.

you can be grey, powerful, interesting, dynamic, but unless

:34:54.:34:58.

more people do it, it, and let it go grey, then, we will all be stuck

:34:59.:35:03.

saying my goodness me, should I just cs I am time expired. Do you feel

:35:04.:35:08.

you are defined by your grey? Not you personally but people that don't

:35:09.:35:15.

know you define you by your grey? I think grey is... You are about to do

:35:16.:35:20.

a programme about civilisation? Grey is part of it. The interesting

:35:21.:35:25.

thing, people have fixated on grey hair as the sign. You go into the

:35:26.:35:29.

room, who, is grey, you know the grey vixens and foxes out there,

:35:30.:35:34.

actually if you look at somebody, being old, isn't just about grey

:35:35.:35:40.

hair, it is about a series of disadvantages, a series of changing

:35:41.:35:45.

of the skin, the creaky knees, it is also, there is something liberating

:35:46.:35:50.

about being old, you know, you are, you grow thicker Sven skin, you are

:35:51.:35:54.

more confident, you know more. If that is not valued that is the

:35:55.:35:58.

problem. But we are not going to make it valued if all the people who

:35:59.:36:04.

are really powerful, older women, try to disguise the fact they are

:36:05.:36:08.

older women, by colouring their hair. Interestingly speaking to Alex

:36:09.:36:13.

who made her first business breakthrough by grey but grey for

:36:14.:36:18.

teenagers, the reason they embraced it was because it was an home

:36:19.:36:23.

imagine to older women. By the time she gets to 20 she is too old. She

:36:24.:36:27.

has to go back. It's a youth thing and then a much older thing. One

:36:28.:36:31.

thing you have to realise, is it isn't just women, I mean, there

:36:32.:36:36.

is... Men don't want to talk about hair die do they? It is try, I think

:36:37.:36:41.

-- Dai There is a gender difference, you can be the craggy older man with

:36:42.:36:46.

the white hair. We know! It is difficult. No-one calls a woman

:36:47.:36:54.

craggy. We are wrinkly. The thing that surprised me, was first finding

:36:55.:37:02.

out the number of men who did colour their hair, and then the almost

:37:03.:37:05.

minuscule, the minuscule number of any of them, as you say who were

:37:06.:37:09.

prepared to talk about it. One thing I think that is good for women, and

:37:10.:37:14.

it is an advantage is we can chat about it. You can put a wig on, we

:37:15.:37:18.

can talk about whether we do, whether we don't, whether I would

:37:19.:37:22.

like pink streaks, whatever, it is something which is out there, it is

:37:23.:37:29.

discussible, we eventually, after trying, man after man after man, who

:37:30.:37:35.

we knew dam well coloured their hair, I couldn't possibly come on

:37:36.:37:39.

the radio, we eventually found one, one, to come out on the radio. I

:37:40.:37:44.

thought, well actually poor dears, you know, we spend a lot of time

:37:45.:37:48.

thinking that women, you know, you know, are the underclass in this

:37:49.:37:53.

hair business and in some ways they are, but you know, the men can't

:37:54.:37:58.

even talk about it. They talk about it on your programme One of them

:37:59.:38:00.

does. Thank you very much indeed. And you can hear Mary's Beard's

:38:01.:38:04.

programme, Glad to be Grey, on Radio Four on Friday

:38:05.:38:07.

morning at 11am. Quick look at The Papers and of

:38:08.:38:15.

course it is on Super Tuesday. ELLOW One of them does. Thank you very

:38:16.:38:17.

much indeed. Quick look at The Papers and of course it is on Super

:38:18.:38:20.

Tuesday. ELLOW One of them does. Thank you very much indeed. Quick

:38:21.:38:23.

look at The Papers and of course it is on Super Tuesday. Donald the

:38:24.:38:25.

"Hair" apparent. Trump takes aim at Republican establishment. The

:38:26.:38:28.

Guardian Rolls-Royce warns its staff of Brexit risk.

:38:29.:38:34.

And finally, on the Daily Telegraph sturgeon's council tax raid and a

:38:35.:38:35.

picture of that footballer. We leave you with news that this

:38:36.:38:40.

June, the Tate Modern is to mount a retrospective of the art

:38:41.:38:43.

of Georgia O'Keeffe. It's hoped that the exhibition

:38:44.:38:45.

will challenge the widely asserted belief, always dismissed

:38:46.:38:47.

by the artist herself, that her famous flower paintings

:38:48.:38:49.

were just thinly disguised Here's a few of them -

:38:50.:38:51.

paintings, that is - Good afternoon. Wednesday was

:38:52.:40:10.

certainly a cold day for many of us, we had a bit of everything from

:40:11.:40:12.

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