02/03/2016 Newsnight


02/03/2016

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark. Live from Washington, can the Republican Party can stop Trump?


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Transcript


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It's looking like Donald Trump will challenge for the White House.

:00:10.:00:12.

But can the Republican party defy their grassroots to pull off

:00:13.:00:14.

I am a unifier. Believe me I am a unifier. Once we get all of this

:00:15.:00:24.

finished, I am going to go after one person, that is Hillary Clinton.

:00:25.:00:27.

Governor Chris Christie may now be officially unified.

:00:28.:00:29.

But will the other candidates come in line?

:00:30.:00:33.

Many of us thought Super Tuesday would herred are a victor that would

:00:34.:01:03.

take the race on the White House, but it hasn't. Hillary Clinton

:01:04.:01:07.

performed well, but her rival Bernie Sanders is still in play. And on the

:01:08.:01:13.

other side, Republican moderates are sensing there may be one last chance

:01:14.:01:17.

to stop Donald Trump, but can they? And if so, how? We will ask guests

:01:18.:01:22.

in a moment but first a look at the big picture of the night.

:01:23.:01:25.

The night was Hillary Clinton's. The night was Donald Trump's.

:01:26.:01:34.

But for anyone expecting the Coronation of either candidate, it

:01:35.:01:39.

didn't come. Not quite. The picture has become more confusing, and for

:01:40.:01:46.

political wons more interesting. Bernie Sanders outperformed his poll

:01:47.:01:53.

predictions. Hilary got the other seven.

:01:54.:01:59.

And on the Republican side, although Trump won in seven states, Ted Cruz

:02:00.:02:04.

made significant inroads into his domination winning Oklahoma, Alaska

:02:05.:02:09.

and his home state of Texas. Even Rubio who had failed to take any

:02:10.:02:14.

state before last night got his first win in Minnesota. So the

:02:15.:02:20.

question now for Republicans is what happens next. Mr Donald Trump. One

:02:21.:02:26.

of the things commentators here ask is whether Donald Trump has a

:02:27.:02:30.

mandate to lead the Republican party. It may seem a strange thing

:02:31.:02:36.

to ask at this point, after so much air but when it comes down to hard

:02:37.:02:43.

facts he has only received 34% of the Republican primary vote. If Cruz

:02:44.:02:49.

and Rubio were one person, let us call them Crubio they would have

:02:50.:02:53.

beaten Trump in some places, where he won but he didn't as he might

:02:54.:02:58.

say, win Bigley. The Republican party knows that that is the

:02:59.:03:01.

problem, that Trump will only be stopped if one of the others will

:03:02.:03:05.

drop out. The trouble is, they can't choose which one.

:03:06.:03:11.

Last night, a consciously court US Ted Cruz called on all the

:03:12.:03:15.

candidates who hadn't won to pull out. Candidates, who have not won a

:03:16.:03:21.

state. Who have not racked up significant delegates. I ask you to

:03:22.:03:27.

consider our coming together. You nighted. He didn't know at this

:03:28.:03:34.

stage Rubio had taken Minnesota. There have been suggestions today,

:03:35.:03:38.

that the party may coalesce round Cruz now but even that would be with

:03:39.:03:43.

a heavy heart. One Senator Lyndsey Graham joked that if Cruz were

:03:44.:03:47.

murdered on the Senate floor, no-one would be convicted. One thing you

:03:48.:03:51.

hear that really isn't true, I mean they count everyone who doesn't, at

:03:52.:03:55.

least in the Republican primary even who doesn't vote for Trump if that

:03:56.:04:02.

is an anti-Trump vote. No, usually the supporters of other candidates

:04:03.:04:05.

of the also ran, the guy they hate the most is the front runner, the

:04:06.:04:11.

same all the colleges in the US hate Harvard the most. Once Trump is the

:04:12.:04:17.

nominee there is no evidence that the Cruz voters v Rubio voters they

:04:18.:04:22.

will go to one another. A lot of Jeb Bush's voters wented up going to

:04:23.:04:29.

Trump. The irony is it is one of their own make, they created the

:04:30.:04:32.

political phenomenon of Trump when Mitt Romney won the nomination four

:04:33.:04:36.

years ago. They called on Trump not for his policy brilliance or ideas

:04:37.:04:42.

on taxation, but for his ability to build a base that derequested the

:04:43.:04:47.

legitimacy of Obama's American identity, the argument. Mitt Romney

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marched to Vegas to receive Trump's benediction buzz in reality that was

:04:55.:05:00.

the moment the GOP endorsed Trump. I think they are shocked, stunned and

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mortified, not just embarrassed but a lot the traditional leadership is

:05:06.:05:09.

mortified by the existence and the success of Donald Trump. What he has

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done he has resonated with a small Swat of American voters, who are

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very vocal and loyal to him, but the reality is there are many people who

:05:21.:05:25.

now accept he might win the Republican nomination, I haven't met

:05:26.:05:30.

a single person who believe that he has a chance of withining -- winning

:05:31.:05:36.

the presidency. What of the slightly sorry slightly startled figure of

:05:37.:05:40.

Chris Christie in this, ens doing Trump. He will no doubt be hoping

:05:41.:05:44.

for a Vice-Presidential role if things go well. If they don't, the

:05:45.:05:48.

mainstream Republican party may look on him, their own man, as the

:05:49.:05:56.

ultimate Brutus the betrayer. What of Hillary Clinton. She is by

:05:57.:06:01.

far the most qualified candidate for the job. Major executive positions,

:06:02.:06:05.

intimate knowledge of the White House and how it works, yet not all

:06:06.:06:09.

of this is working in her favour. She is viewed as the establishment,

:06:10.:06:13.

and more Kerrouchely perhaps as the one with the most questions to

:06:14.:06:17.

answer to the electorate. Mark Urban looks as the challenges facing the

:06:18.:06:20.

democratic favourite. America it seems is going to get a

:06:21.:06:35.

clear choice. Not between left and right or what passes for that in the

:06:36.:06:39.

US, but between insider and outsider.

:06:40.:06:45.

Trump the ultimate populist insurgent, versus Clinton, steeped

:06:46.:06:49.

in the black arts of Washington, Sion of the belt way. It is

:06:50.:06:53.

certainly in any other election it would be something that really

:06:54.:06:57.

helped her. She has decades of experience in public service and in

:06:58.:07:01.

politics, in this particular campaign, in which both parties are

:07:02.:07:06.

looking for outsiders. It has become a liability to her, she has been a

:07:07.:07:09.

leader in the party for years but it is true that she is sort of a

:07:10.:07:15.

technocrat, she is a won, the things that make her a good civil servant

:07:16.:07:19.

and make the people work for her and who have worked for her really like

:07:20.:07:23.

her, are not things that necessarily lend themselves well to the

:07:24.:07:27.

campaign, so that is an unfortunate thing she has to work with. Eight

:07:28.:07:32.

years as first lady, a two term Senator and four years as America's

:07:33.:07:37.

chief diplomat. Has a record of public service, it is enormously

:07:38.:07:40.

impressive. At each stage though, access to

:07:41.:07:44.

power has brought with its controversy. From whitewater to the

:07:45.:07:51.

death of Americans in Benghazi to the question as whether of Secretary

:07:52.:07:57.

of State she sent private e-mails full of classified information He,

:07:58.:08:02.

the security clearance is unbelievably remain intact, at this

:08:03.:08:05.

time even though they are under investigation by the FBI, says is a

:08:06.:08:08.

lot about how power works in Washington, that a lot of Americans

:08:09.:08:12.

are not going to like. On a purely political front there is nothing

:08:13.:08:15.

stopping Hillary Clinton from being democratic nominee at this point.

:08:16.:08:20.

She did well on Super Tuesday. Bernie Sanders is a protest

:08:21.:08:25.

candidate, nothing more, she will be the democratic nominee unless she is

:08:26.:08:29.

arrested. We won with poorly educated. I love them. If you want

:08:30.:08:35.

to see how anger business takes its form you need look no further than

:08:36.:08:39.

the Trump campaign, and whereas somehow this contender can use

:08:40.:08:45.

highly provocative language. For the democratic front runner stirring

:08:46.:08:48.

support through competence rather this than charisma isn't always

:08:49.:08:52.

easy. You don't want the conversation to be about change. He

:08:53.:08:58.

or she, who dictates the debate in politics is the one who will win the

:08:59.:09:06.

debate. If the campaign unfolding is primarily a conversation about

:09:07.:09:08.

change, I think it benefitted Donald Trump. If the campaign moving

:09:09.:09:13.

forward is more about bringing our country together, finding common

:09:14.:09:19.

solutions to our problem, knowing, knowing policy, and knowing how to

:09:20.:09:23.

get things done for middle class American, I think Hillary Clinton

:09:24.:09:26.

will do very well, and that will be the job of her campaign, to dictate

:09:27.:09:30.

what the debate unfolding in the fall is going to be about.

:09:31.:09:34.

Last night she tried to relaunch herself, as national heal eraer this

:09:35.:09:41.

than won. I believe what we need in America today is more love and

:09:42.:09:46.

kindness. Instead of building walls we are

:09:47.:09:57.

going to bring down barriers and build... Build ladders of

:09:58.:10:01.

opportunity and empowerment. The rejection of conhaven't shulal

:10:02.:10:05.

politics has gone so broad in America it has produced a political

:10:06.:10:09.

insurgency on the left in the shape of Bernie Sanders. Hillary Clinton

:10:10.:10:12.

might have been hoping to see him off in short order, but in truth it

:10:13.:10:18.

is the very depth of her experience, which has become as much of a

:10:19.:10:25.

liability as an asset. For all too many, Washington's

:10:26.:10:29.

compromises reek of betrayals and knowledge of its ways suggests an

:10:30.:10:33.

acceptance of its faults. But of course it remains the shining prize

:10:34.:10:37.

for whoever is best able to tap America's mood.

:10:38.:10:48.

So where does the race go. Priscilla writes for the Atlantic and Scotty

:10:49.:10:52.

is one of the finder of the Tea Party news network.

:10:53.:11:00.

Did you think Trump Trump would be able to say I am the nominee? No, I

:11:01.:11:06.

didn't. You look add Texas, that was a key state, 155 delegate votes and

:11:07.:11:13.

that was where Ted Cruz put his emphasis in. You look at Oklahoma

:11:14.:11:19.

and Arkansas where you don't have cross over voters, he was going to

:11:20.:11:23.

look good in those. There is a lot of passion in the top three

:11:24.:11:27.

candidates and supporters, and they are not going to sit down today and

:11:28.:11:31.

say I give up. I knew it would go until March 15th. The real question

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is after then, are we going to be down to a two person race or could

:11:36.:11:42.

it be an overwhelmingly one? As soon as you saw Marco Rubio win

:11:43.:11:47.

Minnesota, Ted Cruz win Oklahoma as well as taxes a, you realise the

:11:48.:11:50.

longer they are in play, the easier it is for Donald Trump, right? Yes

:11:51.:11:57.

and no. We are seeing an interesting dynamic, to Marco Rubio, he lost

:11:58.:12:01.

Virginia, and a lot of those votes are at least over 66,000 went to

:12:02.:12:06.

John, they are looking for the establishment line to coalesce

:12:07.:12:09.

behind one candidate. They are having a hard time doing that.

:12:10.:12:14.

Donald Trump is sweeping the States and taking so many delegates, so

:12:15.:12:19.

until we have that, the two lanes deso ciphered we are having a hard

:12:20.:12:24.

time with the voters. When you look at the mainstream Republicans, if we

:12:25.:12:27.

can call them that, did you understand where they are going,

:12:28.:12:31.

what their game is? One minute they are saying we want it to be Rubio,

:12:32.:12:36.

then Cruz looks like he is going to get the most delegates so they are

:12:37.:12:41.

flip-flopping between who they are going to back. These are the people

:12:42.:12:45.

who have been the last eight years of an election cycle have controlled

:12:46.:12:49.

this party and give us more losers than we have had winners. Now they

:12:50.:12:53.

are trying to figure out who to get behind. Ion if we will see them get

:12:54.:12:59.

behind a Ted Cruz, won't get behind a Donald Trump as of now, but they

:13:00.:13:04.

created this problem, they were the ones that front loaded this primary

:13:05.:13:07.

season, thinking that I would have their candidate. It hasn't happened.

:13:08.:13:11.

They are not happy about it. Is Donald Trump as a phenomenon bigger

:13:12.:13:16.

than his numbers actually make him? When you look, the numbers who vote

:13:17.:13:22.

in the primaries are tiny, and he is only getting 34.7% of the vote. Is

:13:23.:13:26.

this whole thing overplayed when you put it to a much wider electorate?

:13:27.:13:31.

It is interesting. The early voting states, where he became the three

:13:32.:13:36.

time victor, he, those states are retail politics, they were on the

:13:37.:13:41.

ground, campaigning, but Super Tuesday rewards the media exposure,

:13:42.:13:45.

that is what we got here. From now on, forward his how much tum is

:13:46.:13:48.

driven by what people saw on Super Tuesday. You don't really sigh the

:13:49.:13:54.

attack ads They are certainly perhaps on the horizon, but that is

:13:55.:13:58.

what Super Tuesday does. I gives them that media exposure. How do you

:13:59.:14:04.

explain for example Donald Trump winning Hispanics in Nevada. That

:14:05.:14:07.

seems to be contrary to everything he said, with the Mexicans, the wall

:14:08.:14:13.

and yet he pulls in, I don't know how... When you think about it this

:14:14.:14:17.

idea of building a wall with a big door to come in, those folks that

:14:18.:14:21.

are already in the United States who have spent the tens of thousands of

:14:22.:14:25.

dollars, went through the process of getting to be a citizen, they will

:14:26.:14:29.

say why should they get it for free when I have had to put so much in

:14:30.:14:35.

and risk so much? Those of us here as children or grandchildren of

:14:36.:14:39.

immigrants that lost people on Ellis islands... Is that what Hispanics

:14:40.:14:44.

are saying? The ones that are voting, that is why you have seeing

:14:45.:14:48.

a huge crowd that like Donald Trump. Do you agree with that? It is

:14:49.:14:54.

correct. Voters, 8% of Caucasus goers were Latino, it is true that

:14:55.:14:59.

Donald Trump had a commanding lead. Now, our 8% of Caucasus goers are

:15:00.:15:02.

they going to be representative of the country? That is what we will

:15:03.:15:09.

find out. Texas is another big states for Hispanics, that is where

:15:10.:15:15.

they came out for Ted Cruz. Those people were strong on immigration,

:15:16.:15:19.

and so that is where you see that whole, it is an interesting dynamic.

:15:20.:15:27.

Before we go to the Democratic race, is Hillary Clinton out of the push

:15:28.:15:38.

or does Bernie Sanders have a chance? He is still in there but

:15:39.:15:42.

whether that translates to moving forward, we will find out. Hillary

:15:43.:15:45.

Clinton had a sweeping victory and we do not expect that to loosen up.

:15:46.:15:50.

What we have been seeking, as marker and put in his piece, is the sense

:15:51.:15:53.

that there are people on either side who do not like their own candidates

:15:54.:15:56.

or the person they think their candidate will be. Is that going to

:15:57.:16:00.

be a political cross-dressing? Are we going to seep Republicans for

:16:01.:16:04.

Hillary and Democrats for Trump because neither like what their own

:16:05.:16:08.

party has given up? You have mentioned the massive success of the

:16:09.:16:12.

Secretary of State. We estimate that almost 20,000 Democrats have crossed

:16:13.:16:16.

over, and with overwhelming numbers, we could see that justified. But the

:16:17.:16:21.

question is, is there a crossover from a Republican standpoint? These

:16:22.:16:30.

are the same blue dog Democrats that swapped over before? That Israeli

:16:31.:16:35.

hardliner. You are prepared to lose voters. Regarding cross-dressing, we

:16:36.:16:40.

will see that on immigration, perhaps, but I don't know. It is

:16:41.:16:44.

hard to predict. It is a very unpredictable race and there is

:16:45.:16:49.

anger. You see it in the polls, they are angry at the establishment. And

:16:50.:16:54.

it is all about ego. It is all about ego on both sides of the aisle. The

:16:55.:17:00.

reason that our guests have been talking about March the 15th is that

:17:01.:17:03.

is the day that Florida comes into play. Florida is crucial, white,

:17:04.:17:08.

because it is Marco Rubio's home state and that is the one where he

:17:09.:17:14.

could win big. 99 delegates up for the count. The other reason, taking

:17:15.:17:18.

your mind back to 2000, remember how tightly contested that was as a

:17:19.:17:23.

state. Florida is a game changer and they are not going to lose a

:17:24.:17:26.

candidate who could win Florida before they see how he does there.

:17:27.:17:30.

The EU has announced it will disburse 700 million euros

:17:31.:17:33.

in emergency aid to help member countries cope with the migrant

:17:34.:17:35.

crisis, and to quell increasingly violent scenes -

:17:36.:17:37.

particularly on Greece's northern border with Macedonia.

:17:38.:17:43.

However the news has not brought early relief for the more than ten

:17:44.:17:46.

thousand migrants there living in dreadful conditions.

:17:47.:17:48.

Only a small number of Syrians and Iraqis were let

:17:49.:17:51.

through the closed border - fewer than 300, when it was

:17:52.:17:54.

Gabriel Gatehouse is in Thessaloniki tonight.

:17:55.:18:06.

Kirsty, 700 million euros is the kind of money that Europe usually

:18:07.:18:12.

reserves for tackling humanitarian emergencies in war zones, disaster

:18:13.:18:17.

zones. They are making it clear that this money is not coming out of the

:18:18.:18:21.

pot that it usually uses for relief outside of the EU, but the size of

:18:22.:18:27.

this money does make it clear how seriously they are taking this

:18:28.:18:29.

migration crisis and also it underlines the fact that they are

:18:30.:18:33.

not expecting this migration crisis to let up any time soon.

:18:34.:18:42.

But is there an EU wide strategy for dealing with the migration crisis?

:18:43.:18:49.

Does this signify a new Europe? We are now way clearer to that. You can

:18:50.:18:53.

throw as much money as this crisis as you like, as many tents and

:18:54.:18:56.

shelters and meals for the hundreds of thousands coming here, but that

:18:57.:19:00.

is not going to stop the people from wanting to come here. Some people

:19:01.:19:05.

say that it might even encourage more people to want to come but what

:19:06.:19:09.

we are not seeing is any kind of unified strategy from the EU to try

:19:10.:19:13.

to tackle this problem at the root. On Monday, there will be a big

:19:14.:19:17.

meeting between the EU and Turkey to try to persuade the Turks yet again

:19:18.:19:23.

to limit the border crossings from Greece into Turkey, but more

:19:24.:19:26.

importantly, perhaps, there is no strategy for what to do with the

:19:27.:19:30.

migrants still coming, and who are there already. The Greeks and the

:19:31.:19:34.

Germans want some kind of quota system, mandatory quarters that will

:19:35.:19:38.

be taken by all the member states, with many member states including

:19:39.:19:42.

Britain adamantly against this. Others are following suit, most

:19:43.:19:45.

notably Austria, who have been limiting the numbers coming in. That

:19:46.:19:49.

has had a trickle-down effect all the way here to the Greek and

:19:50.:19:53.

Macedonian border, where we are seeing this big build-up of people

:19:54.:19:57.

at the border, just about an hour north.

:19:58.:20:02.

Not to this journey, nor to the constant stream of people

:20:03.:20:08.

They are making their way towards a frontier that

:20:09.:20:18.

Many have come from Syria, or from Iraq.

:20:19.:20:27.

Somewhere at the end of this road they believe lies a promised land.

:20:28.:20:39.

But Europe itself is in crisis, as it struggles to figure out

:20:40.:20:42.

At the border, a tent city has sprung up, and it is growing fast.

:20:43.:20:53.

Today's promise of EU money is perhaps a sticking plaster,

:20:54.:20:56.

but with hundreds, maybe thousands arriving every day,

:20:57.:20:58.

In two or three weeks we will have 100,000 people in Greece.

:20:59.:21:07.

So it means that European countries will have to take a decision.

:21:08.:21:10.

I know today there is a meeting in order to give some money

:21:11.:21:13.

for Greece, but it is more than this, it is to find a common

:21:14.:21:17.

solution among the different countries, in order

:21:18.:21:18.

Greece wants EU member states to agree on a quota system

:21:19.:21:25.

So does Germany, which took in more than one million people last year.

:21:26.:21:30.

But the countries in between do not agree.

:21:31.:21:35.

On the Macedonian side of the border today,

:21:36.:21:37.

we saw police from Slovakia, the Czech Republic and Austria.

:21:38.:21:44.

Their aim is to keep the migrants out.

:21:45.:21:49.

"Save our children, open the borders", they chant.

:21:50.:21:53.

Two days ago, they forced their way through this fence, only to be

:21:54.:21:56.

pushed back by the Macedonian riot police, who fired tear gas

:21:57.:21:59.

I am not from Daesh, I am not from al-Nusra,

:22:00.:22:18.

I am just a man, I have children, want to live in peace.

:22:19.:22:26.

After the incident on Monday, Macedonia closed the

:22:27.:22:28.

As a crowd gathered at the crossing this morning, tempers began to fray.

:22:29.:22:35.

It looks like they are preparing to let a small number through.

:22:36.:22:38.

Only about 100 or so, the police say here.

:22:39.:22:41.

Meanwhile, there are hundreds upon hundreds arriving all the time.

:22:42.:22:49.

Of the handful we saw cross, most were immediately sent back,

:22:50.:22:51.

either because they weren't from Iraq or Syria,

:22:52.:22:53.

or because their papers weren't in order.

:22:54.:22:57.

The Greek Prime Minister has warned his country is becoming

:22:58.:23:00.

a warehouse of souls, trapped, half way along

:23:01.:23:02.

As the numbers build up, so does the tension.

:23:03.:23:15.

They are saying a woman just tried to set herself on fire just now.

:23:16.:23:20.

They carry her off in search of a doctor.

:23:21.:23:24.

Her children have already crossed the border, friends tell us.

:23:25.:23:26.

For her, the waiting has become too much.

:23:27.:23:33.

An estimated 40% of the people waiting to cross at the border

:23:34.:23:36.

This couple spent thousands of euros to get this far from their home

:23:37.:23:44.

All of this uncertainty is beginning to take its toll on them,

:23:45.:23:50.

Because you left everything, your memories, your family,

:23:51.:23:58.

because my mum is still there, my sister is still there,

:23:59.:24:00.

When we decide to come, only for future of our kids.

:24:01.:24:11.

Did you expect it to be like this?

:24:12.:24:13.

Expected it would be better, because we hear that maybe we stay

:24:14.:24:21.

here only three hours, or one day, and not too

:24:22.:24:23.

We hope they can, the European Union, they can take

:24:24.:24:29.

Because we are already crossing the border.

:24:30.:24:34.

It is not just the migrants and the refugees who

:24:35.:24:40.

It is being felt here in Greece, and beyond this border fence,

:24:41.:24:45.

There must be something so tantalising about these tracks,

:24:46.:24:53.

one single railway network connecting the whole of Europe.

:24:54.:25:02.

But this is potentially the most serious crisis to face

:25:03.:25:04.

At the moment, it's simply failing to provide an answer.

:25:05.:25:10.

This country is in the grip of a crippling economic crisis.

:25:11.:25:14.

It surely cannot cope with this influx on its own.

:25:15.:25:24.

But the other nations of the EU, also weary of austerity,

:25:25.:25:27.

are implacably divided over how much they can,

:25:28.:25:29.

It's being heralded as a great scientific breakthrough -

:25:30.:25:34.

It's called IRF4 and you can bet your bottom dollar women,

:25:35.:25:44.

in particular, will soon be bombarded with drug products

:25:45.:25:46.

But why is grey such a problem, equated with decrepitude rather

:25:47.:26:02.

It's a subject close to the heart of Mary Beard, who I'll be

:26:03.:26:06.

But first, when many young women are actively embracing grey,

:26:07.:26:09.

why is it such a big no-no for many of the rest of us?

:26:10.:26:13.

How would it feel if I was grey for a day?

:26:14.:26:25.

Next, up to the Newsnight office. My goodness! Wasn't really that

:26:26.:26:37.

shocking? So why is it that so many women just won't risk grave. The big

:26:38.:26:41.

story is that grey does not suit them. They were born with a natural

:26:42.:26:47.

colour and the grey starts to come through and it makes them feel like

:26:48.:26:50.

they are getting older. The ones that youthful Shane back in their

:26:51.:27:07.

hair. -- youthful Shane. Can Franklin, the fashion industry

:27:08.:27:10.

specialist, has been great since her early 30s, so what she make of the

:27:11.:27:14.

announcement that scientists have discovered a grey Jean? I have to

:27:15.:27:21.

daughters and we know as of today that part of the reason is genetic.

:27:22.:27:25.

If you were able to screen it out, to take a magical pill, what would

:27:26.:27:32.

you have done? My oldest daughter is 23 and she says that she better get

:27:33.:27:37.

a white streak or else. I hope I have got your package, ma'am, is

:27:38.:27:41.

what she says. She has seen it and sees that it is distinctive but she

:27:42.:27:46.

has also seen her friends in their early 20s say to me, I love your

:27:47.:27:48.

hair. For one enterprising young woman, Gray was a

:27:49.:28:05.

brilliant business idea. I built my business on grey. It was the first

:28:06.:28:09.

hair colour we ever did and I did it as a teenager on people in my

:28:10.:28:14.

bathroom at home. On other teenagers? Yes, people working in

:28:15.:28:18.

the fashion industry. And it kind of kick-started the bleach empire. Do

:28:19.:28:22.

you think there is a double standard between men and women going great?

:28:23.:28:26.

Yes, there is a double standard with all ageing. Men become more

:28:27.:28:29.

attractive and more intelligent as they get older, there is the Silver

:28:30.:28:35.

fox but there is no silver vixen. Maybe we are following this trend

:28:36.:28:42.

and we will start that. Time to find a silver fox. Where would he be but

:28:43.:28:49.

in the make-up chair? A silver fox in his den. The Queen of Scotland

:28:50.:28:53.

has arrived. Is this all your own colour? I have been a silver fox

:28:54.:29:02.

since I was 35. Not so long ago. And you have never been under pressure?

:29:03.:29:06.

Do you think the standards are different? What women in television

:29:07.:29:10.

are great? You look good grey but what is wrong with that? It is very

:29:11.:29:16.

itchy. Is it self-imposed pressure? I think some of my male colleagues

:29:17.:29:19.

will dye their hair because they think they look better. Otherwise

:29:20.:29:24.

why do it? Or is it a pressure thing to look younger? Name names. I can't

:29:25.:29:29.

but some of them are no longer working in this country. The US

:29:30.:29:36.

elections are very interesting, don't you think? I have been

:29:37.:29:42.

exploring how different people have reacted to women with grey hair and

:29:43.:29:45.

we have had some interesting social media reaction to my hair. This is

:29:46.:29:49.

the female equivalent of a middle-aged man turning up to work

:29:50.:29:56.

in a Harley-Davidson. Nice to see Andy water hole back on our screens.

:29:57.:30:02.

That was what I thought! The female equivalent of Paxman's beard.

:30:03.:30:05.

Subverting the male domination of the broadcasters, good going. All

:30:06.:30:19.

good fun, but Mary Beard, this is not just a funny issue. Why is it

:30:20.:30:22.

that women feel so compelled? We will talk about the scientific

:30:23.:30:25.

evidence in a minute. Why is it? Were talking about this on the

:30:26.:30:28.

programme I have been making, which goes out on Friday morning. That is

:30:29.:30:32.

a consistent refrain, I don't want to look old, I want to look younger

:30:33.:30:35.

and I thought that if I was grey, people would not notice me. I would

:30:36.:30:43.

no longer be a human, noticeable person. What I think is really

:30:44.:30:49.

interesting about that is partly what you are showing us, because I

:30:50.:30:55.

think you look just the same age as when you have your other colour

:30:56.:31:01.

here. And I don't think you look, in fact I think you look more

:31:02.:31:05.

impressive and authoritative. You don't look like granny sitting by

:31:06.:31:11.

the fire. I think first of all there is a kind of misunderstanding of

:31:12.:31:15.

what going grey does to you. Illion people last year, the but the

:31:16.:31:20.

countries in between do not agree. On the Macedonian side o It has been

:31:21.:31:23.

going on for many year, there are Roman women 2,000 years ago who used

:31:24.:31:27.

to do what we do, pull the first grey hairs out and think I am going

:31:28.:31:34.

to go bald. If the 16th century, witches, long grey hair but you

:31:35.:31:38.

know, otherness. But I think you have two things going on here. One

:31:39.:31:45.

is a sense that grey signals old and I don't want to be old, but I think

:31:46.:31:53.

that relates to, to a bigger issue about ageing, whether it is in

:31:54.:31:57.

public or whether it is in the workplace, and, and in a sense, it

:31:58.:32:03.

relates to a kind of problem about how old women in particular should

:32:04.:32:08.

feel that they can be. Look I am 61, this is what a 61-year-old woman

:32:09.:32:13.

looks like, I am fine with that. And if I were to colour my hair, what I

:32:14.:32:17.

would be saying, is, I don't want to be what I am. And I am happy to be

:32:18.:32:23.

what I am. It is interesting because you can count on two hands the men

:32:24.:32:29.

in the BBC who have grey hair and Narey a woman among them. Is it self

:32:30.:32:35.

imposed attitudes or is there an attitude to women who are grey and

:32:36.:32:40.

the perception of them on the media? Think that it is classic gender

:32:41.:32:47.

divide like we were hearing, like you get an old craggy silver fox,

:32:48.:32:55.

sits on the television, reads the news, compares discussions, with

:32:56.:32:59.

authority. And the fear is, I think I am really interesting in seeing

:33:00.:33:04.

you like you are like tonight, it is undermining that fear, the fear is a

:33:05.:33:09.

woman having grey share, she just looks, it works against her

:33:10.:33:13.

authority. She looks like somebody we don't have to notice any more.

:33:14.:33:17.

So, there is two things happening as well. The whole kind of air and make

:33:18.:33:21.

up industry, feeds into this notion of do anything to get rid of the

:33:22.:33:27.

grey, that then is compounded by the scientific research which says that

:33:28.:33:31.

there will be very soon a therapy because it is genetic which will get

:33:32.:33:36.

rid of the grey. Do you think there is setting up backwards? I think it

:33:37.:33:40.

is keeping us at the same place. What do we do? We rinse or tint or

:33:41.:33:46.

colour, to get rid of the grey, in ten, 20, 30 Greers time, if we are

:33:47.:33:51.

rich, we will take some genetic treatment which will stop us going

:33:52.:33:56.

grey. Actually I want to say come on, this is going grey, it is not

:33:57.:34:01.

about your genes it is about getting mature. But, when you talk to the

:34:02.:34:06.

hairdresser in the salon who said, the problem is that women, because

:34:07.:34:10.

of how they are viewed, do not have any confidence they want, and they

:34:11.:34:14.

feel, and also they feel invisible. That is true. That is about

:34:15.:34:20.

education in schools about programme, the way they are treated

:34:21.:34:24.

in the Health Service, how they get on in their daily lives. The trouble

:34:25.:34:30.

is more prominent women decide to colour their hair because that is

:34:31.:34:34.

the only way they can see they can make it in their careers, the more

:34:35.:34:42.

the problem is compounded. You know, there are some good models.

:34:43.:34:47.

Christine Lagarde and you can say, look, you can be, alxxxx actually

:34:48.:34:53.

you can be grey, powerful, interesting, dynamic, but unless

:34:54.:34:58.

more people do it, it, and let it go grey, then, we will all be stuck

:34:59.:35:03.

saying my goodness me, should I just cs I am time expired. Do you feel

:35:04.:35:08.

you are defined by your grey? Not you personally but people that don't

:35:09.:35:15.

know you define you by your grey? I think grey is... You are about to do

:35:16.:35:20.

a programme about civilisation? Grey is part of it. The interesting

:35:21.:35:25.

thing, people have fixated on grey hair as the sign. You go into the

:35:26.:35:29.

room, who, is grey, you know the grey vixens and foxes out there,

:35:30.:35:34.

actually if you look at somebody, being old, isn't just about grey

:35:35.:35:40.

hair, it is about a series of disadvantages, a series of changing

:35:41.:35:45.

of the skin, the creaky knees, it is also, there is something liberating

:35:46.:35:50.

about being old, you know, you are, you grow thicker Sven skin, you are

:35:51.:35:54.

more confident, you know more. If that is not valued that is the

:35:55.:35:58.

problem. But we are not going to make it valued if all the people who

:35:59.:36:04.

are really powerful, older women, try to disguise the fact they are

:36:05.:36:08.

older women, by colouring their hair. Interestingly speaking to Alex

:36:09.:36:13.

who made her first business breakthrough by grey but grey for

:36:14.:36:18.

teenagers, the reason they embraced it was because it was an home

:36:19.:36:23.

imagine to older women. By the time she gets to 20 she is too old. She

:36:24.:36:27.

has to go back. It's a youth thing and then a much older thing. One

:36:28.:36:31.

thing you have to realise, is it isn't just women, I mean, there

:36:32.:36:36.

is... Men don't want to talk about hair die do they? It is try, I think

:36:37.:36:41.

-- Dai There is a gender difference, you can be the craggy older man with

:36:42.:36:46.

the white hair. We know! It is difficult. No-one calls a woman

:36:47.:36:54.

craggy. We are wrinkly. The thing that surprised me, was first finding

:36:55.:37:02.

out the number of men who did colour their hair, and then the almost

:37:03.:37:05.

minuscule, the minuscule number of any of them, as you say who were

:37:06.:37:09.

prepared to talk about it. One thing I think that is good for women, and

:37:10.:37:14.

it is an advantage is we can chat about it. You can put a wig on, we

:37:15.:37:18.

can talk about whether we do, whether we don't, whether I would

:37:19.:37:22.

like pink streaks, whatever, it is something which is out there, it is

:37:23.:37:29.

discussible, we eventually, after trying, man after man after man, who

:37:30.:37:35.

we knew dam well coloured their hair, I couldn't possibly come on

:37:36.:37:39.

the radio, we eventually found one, one, to come out on the radio. I

:37:40.:37:44.

thought, well actually poor dears, you know, we spend a lot of time

:37:45.:37:48.

thinking that women, you know, you know, are the underclass in this

:37:49.:37:53.

hair business and in some ways they are, but you know, the men can't

:37:54.:37:58.

even talk about it. They talk about it on your programme One of them

:37:59.:38:00.

does. Thank you very much indeed. And you can hear Mary's Beard's

:38:01.:38:04.

programme, Glad to be Grey, on Radio Four on Friday

:38:05.:38:07.

morning at 11am. Quick look at The Papers and of

:38:08.:38:15.

course it is on Super Tuesday. ELLOW One of them does. Thank you very

:38:16.:38:17.

much indeed. Quick look at The Papers and of course it is on Super

:38:18.:38:20.

Tuesday. ELLOW One of them does. Thank you very much indeed. Quick

:38:21.:38:23.

look at The Papers and of course it is on Super Tuesday. Donald the

:38:24.:38:25.

"Hair" apparent. Trump takes aim at Republican establishment. The

:38:26.:38:28.

Guardian Rolls-Royce warns its staff of Brexit risk.

:38:29.:38:34.

And finally, on the Daily Telegraph sturgeon's council tax raid and a

:38:35.:38:35.

picture of that footballer. We leave you with news that this

:38:36.:38:40.

June, the Tate Modern is to mount a retrospective of the art

:38:41.:38:43.

of Georgia O'Keeffe. It's hoped that the exhibition

:38:44.:38:45.

will challenge the widely asserted belief, always dismissed

:38:46.:38:47.

by the artist herself, that her famous flower paintings

:38:48.:38:49.

were just thinly disguised Here's a few of them -

:38:50.:38:51.

paintings, that is - Good afternoon. Wednesday was

:38:52.:40:10.

certainly a cold day for many of us, we had a bit of everything from

:40:11.:40:12.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.

Live from Washington, this edition assesses whether the Republican Party can stop Trump.

Also with live reports from Greece as the migrants stack up on the border.

And with Mary Beard, what is it about women and grey hair?


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